Guild Wars 2

Warlord.9074:

The best thing that can happen to this game and the rangers. Is for the ranger community to come together and say enough is enough. Instead of making threads like this make threads teaching other rangers how to make good builds. And change the attitudes of the community members that say ranger is a ranged class regardless of the fact that every profession is both a melee and ranged class.

For far to long the ranger community as a whole has rather than adapt pretty much fought ANET and the rest of the community over this notion that ranger is a pure ranged class and want it to be the ranger or the archer from Gw1 or some other game. It just simply is not and it will never be.

It’s a problem with both the players and the game staff though. They intentionally created a Ranger archetype class in a game where they knew for a fact that ranged damage was inferior. They then gave it 2 bows, 1 throwing axe, a GS that does weak dps in exchange for evades and a 1h sword that roots on autoattack. They also didn’t help when they advertised the ranger as an archer and even emphasized it in the character creation menu. In fact, there is no other way to play a minion class than to range. The whole point of a minion is for it to act as a meat shield, allowing the player to dps from a distance, safe from the enemy and able to devote all attention and resources to offense. Its redundant to have both in melee range when it takes both attacking in tandem to equal the dps of other classes as is the case with the GW2 Ranger.

Now, again that doesn’t excuse people’s desire to play ineffective builds, but it is no way a problem we created for our selves, by our selves. This is just as much a result of Anet’s poor advertising of the class and their inability to focus it in a game that, frankly, has no place for long range combat.

They didn’t have to force the Longbow to be a 1000-1500 range for best dps weapon, but they did, and refuse to change it when 1.5 years of gameplay have shown that doesn’t work. Not in instanced PvE and certainly not in smallscale PvP.

My Sweet Lily.1952:

This is for all Rangers out there:
1.Please, use 20/0/0/10/0 as a core to your PvE build. Spotter and traited Frost Spirit is all you need to bring. From there, you can build how ever you like (preferably zerker and full dmg build). If all Rangers would use this as the core of their build, it would make us all look better in pugs.

2.Lose the bear and the longbow. Take cats and if you really must take ranged, use shortbow. It out-dps’ the longbow at “Spotter range”, which is the range where your allies get the Spotter buff (note: I haven’t tested the damage difference, this is what I have heard from several different sources). When I use the shortbow (in fractals), I like to flank the foe just outside of melee range, and I always see the Spotter buff on my allies.

Two simple things, but they make a big difference.

It used to be that the LB only out dps’d the SB at maximum range. I’m not sure how it works with the latest buff to the ranges but I’d suspect at ~600 the shortbow probably still does more dps if you can keep the enemy flanked.

Arewn.2368:

I feel they have defiance backwards.
Instead of hitting the target with CC to get rid of a stack of defiance, and then losing immunity to CC when all the defiance is gone, it should be the other way around.
Each time the mob is hit by defiance, it gains 1 stack which has a duration. Each stack reduces the effectiveness of CC by a % until it reaches max stacks and becomes totally immune.

The only problem I have with what the OP is saying is that fixing CC doesn’t stop you from building pure DPS. There’s no way to “gear up”(stat wise) for CCing. It would make more weapon sets viable though.

It should just reduce the chance of CC working to like 10% and give temp immunity after it receives a CC effect. That way, you can still have a control role in small groups, but in large world mob zergs, when it gets knocked down, it’s immune to that specific cc for say 20-30 seconds, to keep a zerg from locking it down with skill overload but still allows for it to have an effect at all without 60 people hitting the ceiling immediately.

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Substance E.4852:

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Warlord.9074:

Star Ace.5207:

Said many things…..

This is the way it is like it or not. We have told you why people hate rangers. You can sit here and argue the community that is your right. You can play the devils advocate in saying people are allowed to play how they want regardless if it is effective or even good.

Fact remains you are free to choose whatever you want just as rangers are free to choose whatever they want. BUT guess what everyone else is free to kick you from parties and tell you to go get on another class. And everyone else is also free to tell you why rangers are hated, regardless if you accept what they say or not.

Too many people in this thread has said the same thing as me maybe not in those words to continue to deny reality. Again that is your choice. Just don’t be upset when we choose not to let rangers join us in parties. And then when we ask rangers to run optimal builds and they refuse that is their choice we have no problem inviting someone else who will change their build.

“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us because we’re a warrior and we are the best class.”

So the guy who loves his war dislikes rangers? Huh.

No, read his post. He dislikes rangers who play like morons. People want maximum dps in a dungeon group. Melee is maximum dps and always will be. This isn’t the game to be a pewpew archer and people are perfectly justified to look down on those who choose to play that way and not let them into their groups.

Some elitist people want maximum DPS in a dungeon group. I play a melee ranger, it’s clearly the way to go, but it should never be acceptable to just insta-kick people, not matter how you try to justify it.

Basically it boils down to whether you’re playing this game as a hobby or a pseudo-lifestyle. I play it to have fun. I don’t care if someone in my dungeon group is sub-optimal. I don’t really care if i’m suboptimal. I don’t really understand WHY it matters to so many people. Speed-clearing in this game is not like GW1. This game it’s just “doing damage slightly faster.” If someone’s gonna use a LB, I don’t care, as long as they don’t AFK/Leave/die a billion times.

Also, your sig quote is not immediately obvious that it’s used sarcastically. And I try to avoid the Ranger forum because of all the self-loathing that tends to happen. Sometimes, I just have to reply though.

You should never be ok with people disliking you immediately, though. It doesn’t matter what the current mindset is, that doesn’t make it right.

The title of this topic itself is essentially toxic, and doesn’t help anything, regardless what is posted in here.

And that’s your choice and right to not care just as much as it’s their choice and right to care. That is a right they reserve when they choose to form the party and be the one who decides who gets to join.

For someone who is hung up on people trying to dictate how others play, you seem to have very rigid ideas of how others should be able to comp their groups.

And maybe they aren’t no lifers that you make them out to be? Maybe they are family (wo)men who have a very limited time each night to spend on dungeon grinding and can’t afford to waste it on a much longer than usual crawl because their teammates are bringing suboptimal builds when there is nothing stopping them from doing so. For every person who has the right to a “fun” personal experience, there are 4 others on your team who are entitled to a fun group experience. That’s what it means to play a group game.

Avigrus.2871:

I think the new Mesmer trait is awesome.

Imagine popping a thief with it and putting his stealth/heal on longer cool down.

Can’t believe people are complaining about it.

“Mesmer: Power Block

Enemies of mesmers beware: they’ve learned how to mess with your skill recharge! The new trait for mesmers allows them to gain additional benefit when disrupting enemy skills. Power Block will be introduced to the Domination line and will change the recharge of an interrupted skill from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. This will not affect skills that have no recharge, but I’d imagine that stopping a necromancer from consuming conditions would surely put a nail in their coffin."

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Warlord.9074:

Star Ace.5207:

Said many things…..

This is the way it is like it or not. We have told you why people hate rangers. You can sit here and argue the community that is your right. You can play the devils advocate in saying people are allowed to play how they want regardless if it is effective or even good.

Fact remains you are free to choose whatever you want just as rangers are free to choose whatever they want. BUT guess what everyone else is free to kick you from parties and tell you to go get on another class. And everyone else is also free to tell you why rangers are hated, regardless if you accept what they say or not.

Too many people in this thread has said the same thing as me maybe not in those words to continue to deny reality. Again that is your choice. Just don’t be upset when we choose not to let rangers join us in parties. And then when we ask rangers to run optimal builds and they refuse that is their choice we have no problem inviting someone else who will change their build.

“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us because we’re a warrior and we are the best class.”

So the guy who loves his war dislikes rangers? Huh.

No, read his post. He dislikes rangers who play like morons. People want maximum dps in a dungeon group. Melee is maximum dps and always will be. This isn’t the game to be a pewpew archer and people are perfectly justified to look down on those who choose to play that way and not let them into their groups.

Nike.2631:

Substance E.4852:

Just like to say that the amount of damage one is like to take by doing this means even if this works, it’s probably not worth it in most situations. Soften also has an unlisted internal cooldown so we can’t rapid fire it by falling down a slight incline.

Odds are good its internal cooldown is the same as muddy terrain — and is likely reduced by the survival skills cooldown trait .

I think it’s quite a bit shorter, maybe around 5-10s. But again, rapid fire fall damage tends to be a bad idea so it’s hard to get numbers by passive experience lol.

Struck by lighting? No prob.
Slide down slightly bumpy incline? Instagib!

I think I’ve died to the Citadel hill more times than enemy players on that map.

Smells like someone tried to trade in a game without a dedicated trade window.

I wouldn’t stay married to the Ranger runes. They already said they were going to rework many of the rune sets and I remember some dev post or video saying that the “+5% while you have a companion” bonus doesn’t even function so they were going to do something different with it.

Forzani.2584:

Substance E.4852:

Forzani.2584:

Substance E.4852:

Forzani.2584:

Zerg warfare means absolutely nothing. Staff Elementalists are a staple of zergs also. How tough is it to fight them 1v1 or in small man action?

I was talking about actually fighting against a Warrior. A year ago I stopped attacking them unless they attacked me in WvW because I felt bad for them. They were so easy to kill. Now? Not so much.

Except that zerging means everything in WvW. No one cares about roaming or 1v1 fights. That’s what spvp is for.

My bad. I didn’t realize that.

Not in general obviously, but in terms of match ups and winning with superior PPT, roaming and 1v1’s mean nothing. It’s no big mystery why they added an area to BL maps just to give roamers something to do.

Well that is an entirely different debate for another thread. My only point is Warriors are vastly stronger today than they were a year ago. There definitely wasn’t any nerf warrior threads a year ago

True enough.

muscarine.5136:

Substance E.4852:

muscarine.5136:

In GW1 you had 4 types of bows.

The flatbow allowed the longest reach and one of the shortest fire rate, but on the other hand you shot your arrows in an arc.

In pvp any smart opponent would straf dodge a ranger using flatbow. This is where you could bring RTW which was a 24s preparation which made your arrows fly twice as fast and in the case of the flatbow, in a straight line instead of an arc (at first it also gave added damage but that got removed in pvp).

Since there were other favored preparation (mainly apply poison) and only one could be used at a time, you had to make a choice.

> Long range with fast fire rate and condition pressure but poor accuracy
> Long range with fast fire rate and great accuracy (good for interrupts) but no poison pressure

Making choices

Something that tends to be forgotten in this game where everyone complains soon as they notice they can’t have everything, and leads to broken designs like the current warrior.

If anything, bring more crucial choices like the longbow’s pros and cons into the game, instead of “fixing it” so it makes everything better than other weapons sets.

Dude, no one used flatbow outside of Read the Wind pewpew turret builds in pvp/gvg. Everyone used Recurve in cripshot builds because it hit without fail with a few using longbow on some gvg maps for the extra range.

You’re also comparing this game to one where rangers were 100% bow use, there were very few if any gap closers, and you had to stop moving to use skills. Someone could sidestep and troll a ranger all day but then they also wouldn’t be accomplishing anything else.

I know thanks, you missed my point entirely.

Your point was there was choices to be made and I refuted it by pointing out that there were never any questions of what to bring just as there is no choice as to whether to use 1h sword or longbow in a dungeon. One is obviously better than the other and there is no way to work around it just as there was never a reason to use the hornbow outside of ranger spike teams.

If you want choices we already have several different types of weapons for that purpose. We aren’t 100% bow anymore and shouldn’t have an entire trait line designed as such. Not in a game where ranged combat is demonstrably weaker than melee combat and gap closers negate the advantage of striking from range. Our power line should be traits that make a power build stronger in general, not focused on bringing 1 specific weapon up when said weapon is never going to be as good as a melee weapon.

Forzani.2584:

Substance E.4852:

Forzani.2584:

Zerg warfare means absolutely nothing. Staff Elementalists are a staple of zergs also. How tough is it to fight them 1v1 or in small man action?

I was talking about actually fighting against a Warrior. A year ago I stopped attacking them unless they attacked me in WvW because I felt bad for them. They were so easy to kill. Now? Not so much.

Except that zerging means everything in WvW. No one cares about roaming or 1v1 fights. That’s what spvp is for.

My bad. I didn’t realize that.

Not in general obviously, but in terms of match ups and winning with superior PPT, roaming and 1v1’s mean nothing. It’s no big mystery why they added an area to BL maps just to give roamers something to do.

tkarr.9152:

Phoenixlin.8624:

Rangers are hated in PvE and WvW (they are fine in sPvP since elementalists are far far far worse than any kind of rangers in that game type):

- Because the worst class among all classes due to its mechanics.
- Because there are other classes that can much more helpful to any group/zerg than rangers in terms of damage and healing and buffing.
- Because the amount of noobs that play rangers is over 9000
- Because when you type “Rangers suck” in mapchat, reading that funny arguments of rangers is fun =)

Also, my hate list is 1) Guests 2) Ranger Guests 3) Rangers.

I can see you have no bias.
One little thing to maybe curb that for you (or any Ranger hater)…..start one and play it from 0-80. You may find yourself changing your viewpoints (or at least being able to validate them from experience). This would be the GW2 version of “walking in the others moccasins before you judge”.

lulwut? Pretty sure experiencing pet shortcomings and no power burst firsthand isn’t going to change anyone’s uninformed perceptions of the class.

Forzani.2584:

Zerg warfare means absolutely nothing. Staff Elementalists are a staple of zergs also. How tough is it to fight them 1v1 or in small man action?

I was talking about actually fighting against a Warrior. A year ago I stopped attacking them unless they attacked me in WvW because I felt bad for them. They were so easy to kill. Now? Not so much.

Except that zerging means everything in WvW. No one cares about roaming or 1v1 fights. That’s what spvp is for.

Nike.2631:

Rym.1469:

I’m wondering about Soft Fall trait (the one triggering Muddy Terrain on falling damage) possible play. Considering that Keen Edge is ability triggered by trait and affects SotF, why shouldn’t it work for trait triggering Muddy Terrain?

I will add that to the list of thing to test – nice catch!

Just like to say that the amount of damage one is like to take by doing this means even if this works, it’s probably not worth it in most situations. Soften also has an unlisted internal cooldown so we can’t rapid fire it by falling down a slight incline.

Those often kill you in wvw anyway though lol.

Forzani.2584:

Aridia.3042:

Forzani.2584:

That is correct. I have never played a game that is properly balanced. Ever. There is always 3 or 4 classes that excel over the others. Then things get patched and a couple of new classes move up into the top 4 and a couple drop out. Rinse repeat.

LOL, except there’s not even a fotm cycle in this game. It’s pretty safe to keep maining that warrior cuz the Devs can’t seem to be objective about their favorite child.

Wanting proper balance is not the same as wanting symmetrical designs. Even something simple like an FPS which has less moving parts, like Quake/CS, don’t have uniformed weapons.

Proper balance require checks and balances so that there are draw backs to the choices, of which there is very little if you play something like the warrior and they dwarf the other classes in what they bring to the table in all the metrics of this game. A lot of the the design choices in this game are arbitrary which is what I have the most problem with. Go look at the mechanics of Dark Souls 2 if you want to see something done right. EVERY choice you make in the spec/gear matters, all the way down to the weight of the equipment.

Just because classes have to be different doesn’t mean you shouldn’t need to account for the differences between them.

My apologies. I didn’t realize you were new to the game. Since if you were here from the beginning, you would have remembered the favorite child was arguably the weakest class in the game when it came to WvW or PvP

lol what? Warriors have ALWAYS been a staple of zergs. The latest powercreep buffs were aimed at spvp and only made them even stronger in WvW.

maddoctor.2738:

Phaeton.9582:

It’s the worst trait change on rangers for sure.

Have you seen Read the Wind?

lol no, this is much worse. RTW, no matter how grossly overprice in points, still has a benefit. This is barely worthy of a minor adept trait.

Terravos.4059:

This game needs a PTS like every other bloody game does

Take SWTOR, it has a PTS, and when they were getting ready to add a really overpowered ability to Sniper in the coming patch, the PTS showed how overpowered it would be.

a Competitive PvP game with no PTS for the population to test and point out overpowered stuff before hand? Completely stupid

Anet prefers to crowd source on the live servers and then wait 6-7 months to fix things that prove to be grossly overpowered coughHealSigcough

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Poison Master would be far better if it would also apply Weakness for the duration of the poison. And it would match the “Poison Master” idea, since the most poisons tend to paralyze the victim.

I was kind of hoping we were gonna get a trait that let us deal more damage (5-10%?) to poisoned foes…

Nike.2631:

Other than to have a field you can shoot through to poison at range .

Viper trap is gaining a poison field. The question is does it apply while its unsprung? There is no way to test this beforehand unless you are on the test server, and the fire and ice traps do not have this as a patch note.

I seriously doubt it works any differently than Flame/Frost Trap.

Luvpie.8350:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey all,

So I sent this thread to the dev team to get some answers for you, and here’s what we’ve got!

When the tournament starts, world ratings are used to sort the initial matchups. This will include the results of the match ending on March 28th.

Matchups will not function in the same manner as they did in Season 1; The initial round of the tournament will match the worlds in each league according to their world rating. After that round has ended, worlds will be matched up according to how many points they have in the tournament. This will continue after each round, which means that the matchups are not predetermined but are dependent upon the results of the previous matchups. If two teams have the same number of points, the team with the higher world rating will be considered the higher seed for the purposes of the matchup. Matchups will continue to match worlds that are close to each other in performance, rather than following a predetermined schedule – which will make for much more exciting and competitive matches. (I stole that from Devon’s blog :P)

Match-end bonus world chests will continue to exist on a weekly basis; 3 for 1st, 2 for 2nd, 1 for 3rd. Additionally, every unlocked achievement in the WvW Tournament category will yield a reward. The overall tournament rewards (tickets), however, will not be distributed until the conclusion of the Tournament.

Hopefully that clears up some confusion!

You left out the most important question! worldxp…

I’m sure they can neither confirm nor deny the existence of that program update…

I like the idea and would bring it if it were a master trait but most of of those skills have very long cooldowns. Renewal signet removes conditions at about the same rate as a double traited muddy terrain.

It’s still the one that has my curiosity peaked the most when comboed with trait changing out of combat and any other fixes they do but I really feel that after about a week we’ll all just go back to using EB for the most part.

blud.8174:

Prysin.8542:

Lots of condi cleansing. Strong pet damage, evades, and with a functioning F1,2,3 (Karl said all pet commands actually), pets will be reliable enough to trust with our DPS.

That would be really cool, but it can’t be right because there’s no cooldown on F1 and F3. Unless the trait has an icd which would make it a little less cool.

Guarantee they mean F2 commands. It’d be stupid OP if we could just spam F1 to rapid fire heals and it would be idiotic to have the heal go on cooldown at the start of a fight because we told the pet to attack a target.

Zoid.2568:

Paulytnz.7619:

Zoid.2568:

Rice picker isn’t racism. It’s a joke.
It’s like saying all swedish people are blondes.

It’s not a joke it’s stereotyping which is VERY close to racism. No one likes to be on the receiving end of it.

Sterotyping can be fun. Trolling can be fun.

Haha they made a new tv show here in Sweden and it’s about catching trolls on the internet.

Feel free to muster some courage and go out in the real world and call someone who’s Asian a “Rice Picker” in a public setting. I’m sure the lulz will flow like spice…

The greatest thing the internet ever accomplished was keep terrible people off the streets. Not they ever got out much before hand anyway…

Chrispy.5641:

Substance E.4852:

Chrispy.5641:

SkiTz.4590:

Prysin.8542:

@Wolfyrik
Since you seem to enjoy reading and quoting things slightly out of context in a completely unrelated manner, i will kindly tell you this; Your own post history betrays you.

Thank you, have a good evening and carry on.

@Jocksy
Take traps, dump em on feet, apply extra damage (often, it doesnt get cleansed right away because their duration is so short so people may not notice, especially the burn). Sure it may not sound exceptionally good to deal roughly 1.5k to 15 people. Then again, in the same timeframe your traps do that, that warrior’s GS or guardian hammer does 2-4k on 3-5 people.

Another handy aspect of this is that while your zerg moves through, finishers such as leap, blast and projectile will spread burning (poison trap still has no field to it) on even more enemies. This is an indirect and un-planned effect. But it should not be dismissed. A fire field is a fire field, regardless how it is deployed.

So yes, traps are not “the absolute best” option in a zerg, but considering which tree they are in, you are also free to grab a SB or LB with piercing arrows and apply some bleed stacks and more direct damage ontop of the traps.
Rangers have only one good zerg weapon, which is GS. Only reason it is good is because it mitigates damage done to us, while dishing out respectable damage to the enemy. As for AOE, traps are the only option that will not get you killed by retaliation. They are tricky to use, but their size and effect coupled with low CD, and being conditions they completely ignores armor, it can actually be argued that traited traps are our best form of AOE.

It doesn’t change the fact that I would NEVER bring along a ranger to WvW in a zerg/group setting.

GW2 has been out for a while, a lot of ppl have viable alts and they play them

literally, every other class is better in supporting/helping a zerg than ranger is. Heck even venom share thieves provide better group support than anything rangers give.

I have absolutely no logical reason to bring along my ranger over lets say my ele when i go to WvW. Unless I want to play selfish and just run around with a zerg spamming 1 on LB.
Its a sad state for ranger in WvW, theres no arguing against it.

whatever dude….I’m going to say this : L2P the profession, and maybe, just maybe, one day when you’re all grown up, and big and strong (or atleast wiser), you’ll find out what uses the ranger does have instead of whining all the time and acting like the ranger is 100% useless 100% of the time.

And maybe one day you’ll actually play WvW, join a zerg, and know what he said is 100% true. It’s not opinion, it’s objective fact.

Except that I do play WvW, and I play in Zergs, with a Trap build. So, what he says is obviously not 100% true, because its working just fine for me!

And Maybe one day you’ll actually play WvW and learn how Traps Builds can work in a Zerg, and just maybe, somewhere down the road, I’ll be accepting your appology. Until then, Trap builds work, and you have failed to make a single point otherwise.

Why would I apologize to someone who uses a trap build in a zerg? That’s just silly.

Electro.4173:

SkiTz.4590:

These are all grandmaster traits you realize that right?

Ours seem so lack luster compared to some of the OP traits other classes just got

thieves just got 50% reduced damage in stealth….
eles got perma blindness and immune to critical hits in earth lol

I don’t see anything that WOWs me as a ranger… this is pathethic. I expected major buffs…
we got some versatile utility and condi cleansing (which guardians are WAAY better at so I could just play guard if i wanted to do these things) but still, no buff to damage at all.
Looks like anet wants to stick this class to a pure support/condi ,

no other true build diversity here, re-roll time

Pretty much everyone got mostly utility and support / defense. They said at the start of the segment that these grandmaster traits were mostly going to focus on utility and survival.

True but you really can’t even begin to compare things like “immunity to crit damage whiel attuned to earth” or “-50% damage while in stealth” to “15% chance to block ranged attacks while in melee.”

That skirmishing one is almost worse than the marksmanship trait and I didn’t even think that was possible.

Chrispy.5641:

SkiTz.4590:

Prysin.8542:

@Wolfyrik
Since you seem to enjoy reading and quoting things slightly out of context in a completely unrelated manner, i will kindly tell you this; Your own post history betrays you.

Thank you, have a good evening and carry on.

@Jocksy
Take traps, dump em on feet, apply extra damage (often, it doesnt get cleansed right away because their duration is so short so people may not notice, especially the burn). Sure it may not sound exceptionally good to deal roughly 1.5k to 15 people. Then again, in the same timeframe your traps do that, that warrior’s GS or guardian hammer does 2-4k on 3-5 people.

Another handy aspect of this is that while your zerg moves through, finishers such as leap, blast and projectile will spread burning (poison trap still has no field to it) on even more enemies. This is an indirect and un-planned effect. But it should not be dismissed. A fire field is a fire field, regardless how it is deployed.

So yes, traps are not “the absolute best” option in a zerg, but considering which tree they are in, you are also free to grab a SB or LB with piercing arrows and apply some bleed stacks and more direct damage ontop of the traps.
Rangers have only one good zerg weapon, which is GS. Only reason it is good is because it mitigates damage done to us, while dishing out respectable damage to the enemy. As for AOE, traps are the only option that will not get you killed by retaliation. They are tricky to use, but their size and effect coupled with low CD, and being conditions they completely ignores armor, it can actually be argued that traited traps are our best form of AOE.

It doesn’t change the fact that I would NEVER bring along a ranger to WvW in a zerg/group setting.

GW2 has been out for a while, a lot of ppl have viable alts and they play them

literally, every other class is better in supporting/helping a zerg than ranger is. Heck even venom share thieves provide better group support than anything rangers give.

I have absolutely no logical reason to bring along my ranger over lets say my ele when i go to WvW. Unless I want to play selfish and just run around with a zerg spamming 1 on LB.
Its a sad state for ranger in WvW, theres no arguing against it.

whatever dude….I’m going to say this : L2P the profession, and maybe, just maybe, one day when you’re all grown up, and big and strong (or atleast wiser), you’ll find out what uses the ranger does have instead of whining all the time and acting like the ranger is 100% useless 100% of the time.

And maybe one day you’ll actually play WvW, join a zerg, and know what he said is 100% true. It’s not opinion, it’s objective fact.

blud.8174:

Eles new traits: 5s blind on burn, 5s weakness on interrupt, immunity to crits while attuned to earth, and boons when struck.

Engie: quickness on knockback, place mines on crit, turrets turn engie into spirit engie, gadgets give boons.

Guardian: retaliation scales with condi damage instead of power, aoe aegis on block (20s cd).

Mesmer: (OP) Enemy skills that you interrupt have increased cd (this trait has no icd so just go ahead and chain those interrupts), gain 3s of distortion on kill (no cd), gain boons for shatter skills [5s fury on daze, 8s regen on distortion], GAIN 1000 HEALING FOR 5S POWER ON INTERRUPT, enemies hit by shatter skills get torment.

Necro: toughness, aoe heals and even harder to kill in death shroud.

Thief: Gain 200 power on reveal (gg Sic ’Em), STEALTH = 50% damage reduction and not just for you, stealing gives 5 stacks of confusion for 5s.

Warrior: Burst skills have 100% increased chance to crit, GAIN 1000 TOUGHNESS WHEN YOU BREAK OUT OF A STUN FOR 4S, When you grant might you give it to allies also (!!)

---

And now for Rangers:
Longbow and Harpoon Gun velocity increased by 100%, 15% chance to block ranged attacks while in melee, poison you apply deals 50% extra damage and poison your pet’s first attack on swap, remove 2 condis and gain fury when you use a survival skill (lightning reflexes breaks immob and keen edges also is affected by this), Your pet does aoe heal on F2.

Where the kitten is the love?
Note that even now, not a single dev has come to discuss what they envision for the class.

Am I really overreacting? Is this not bullkitten?

Oh no, it is quite bullkitten. I’d be apologizing for so much criticism if we got a trait that increased our attack speed with the sword or a trait that healed us when we crit.

Ya know, things that actually play on our strengths as a “sustained damage class”.

Instead we got a mishmash of “meh” to “no way in hell is that worth 30pt” traits that don’t push us into a unified vision and just play off the fact that we have no focus as a class.

Are we a pet/minion class, are we a “sustained dps” class, or are we a pewpew sniper class? I don’t know anymore and it seems like Anet sure doesn’t either.

Terravos.4059:

Lets see..

Marksman Trait – Won’t be used because its over saturated with other Longbow Trait

Skirmishing Trait – Who’s going to use this? Trap Rangers won’t…. and Interrupt Builds MoC is better…Berserker Rangers won’t use it, Because they sure as hell don’t wanna be in Melee.

Wilderness Survival – Again, no one will use it…Cause it sits in Empathetic Bond’s place

Nature Trait – Not sure who’s going to use this trait..Spirit Builds Won’t use it, Shout Build won’t use it….So its pretty much Meh.

Beastmaster Trait – Depends on heal, if its not great..It won’t take Natural Healings Place.

Pretty much my thoughts. The Nature Magic trait sounds nice but all our survival skills besides muddy have too long of a cooldown for this to really be worth 30pts. Not when a shout build still probably lends greater survivability for 30 nature points.

The Nature Magic one sounds like it would combo with muddy terrain well, but the others sound too underwhelming with our current skill/trait set.

It’d be great if they previewed any other trait changes along with this.

Prysin.8542:

ITS OFFICIAL FROM THE STREAM; IMMOB REMOVAL ON LIGHTNING REFLEXES. YYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Have they previewed the other traits yet?

I would prefer the old Dire/Elder/Hearty system to what we have now.

Pets should be more about looks than what family lines have as far as stats. Bears can tear open cars to get at a sandwich, I should be able to have one that hits as such.

If I can’t tell what a player’s stats are by their equipment, they shouldn’t be able to tell what my pet’s are by it’s model.

Now all they have to do is get rid of the massive activation times of pet skills and the pet might be worth it.

Oh and the “sorry I was running/activating when I tried to use that skill, please wait for the cooldown to end to try again” error needs to go as well. Not sure if this will fix that but the pet interrupting it’s own skill and setting it on full cooldown is beyond annoying.

Tumult.2578:

Having read the CDI and all these new coming changes, I am unable to provide positive feedback. Cant find even one thing that I use or might use, that I like.

My concern? That a loss of 10% to 25% of Rangers wont even be noticed.

Whether Anet notices, I’m sure the players will. Ranger is already the easiest class to spot in a group because of the pet and I see fewer and fewer every week that are either mains or geared in good equipment. Most seem to be newbies in rogue/pirate gear with LB-bear/drake more than anything.

And this is on Blackgate, easily one of the most populous pve servers.

muscarine.5136:

In GW1 you had 4 types of bows.

The flatbow allowed the longest reach and one of the shortest fire rate, but on the other hand you shot your arrows in an arc.

In pvp any smart opponent would straf dodge a ranger using flatbow. This is where you could bring RTW which was a 24s preparation which made your arrows fly twice as fast and in the case of the flatbow, in a straight line instead of an arc (at first it also gave added damage but that got removed in pvp).

Since there were other favored preparation (mainly apply poison) and only one could be used at a time, you had to make a choice.

> Long range with fast fire rate and condition pressure but poor accuracy
> Long range with fast fire rate and great accuracy (good for interrupts) but no poison pressure

Making choices

Something that tends to be forgotten in this game where everyone complains soon as they notice they can’t have everything, and leads to broken designs like the current warrior.

If anything, bring more crucial choices like the longbow’s pros and cons into the game, instead of “fixing it” so it makes everything better than other weapons sets.

Dude, no one used flatbow outside of Read the Wind pewpew turret builds in pvp/gvg. Everyone used Recurve in cripshot builds because it hit without fail with a few using longbow on some gvg maps for the extra range.

You’re also comparing this game to one where rangers were 100% bow use, there were very few if any gap closers, and you had to stop moving to use skills. Someone could sidestep and troll a ranger all day but then they also wouldn’t be accomplishing anything else.

[quote=3790966;sorrow.2364:]

Chrispy.5641:

Prysin.8542:

i find traps working well in zergs, but you can only carry 2…. so most of the time i use poison and fire due to spammability (lowest CD, both are pulsing). Playing in a zerg without a single stunbreaker, regardless of stability, is suicide.

I seomtimes switch my build for full condition burst, and go headfirst into a zerg with 3 traps, Heal as One, and Entangle.

It is indeed suicidal to run into a large group of enemy players without a Stunbreaker, Stability, or Condition Removal, but, the Reward is more than worth it.

Not if you are using traps and entangle in a zerg it isnt…

Lexiceta.4156:

Confused by the Read the Wind trait- so the skills will take the same time but the time to target will be twice as fast? i don’t know but the trait seems weak for GrandMaster

Arrows fly twice as fast. Skills work the exact same way they have before.

It’s like back when they buffed arrows speed by default except now it’s a 30pt trait.

Cush.4063:

WHOSE TO SAY THAT THEY JUST NERFED WARRIOR TO THE GROUND AJD GAVE THEM THAT TRAIT TO HELP THEM OUT? THX

lol, that’s a good one…

Criminal.5627:

so after we get told that we can not burst because it would be escalating the power creep in the game warriors get a boost to their dmg and bursting capability with one hand weapons…. How does this mentality make any sense in the game at all? it is almost like a huge middle finger to us and the CDI we had…

Sad thing is that it would be a big boon to our “sustained damage” model with our lack of burst one the axe and sword.

Renny.6571:

This thread is now about Ele GM trait vs Ranger GM trait.

People really don’t read OP posts beyond the thread title do they?

Bryzy.2719:

What do Rangers get? 2x faster arrows. Something so simple that should be implemented as standard, and not brought in as a Grandmaster trait. I know these are just 1 of several new traits, but it just goes to show Rangers are on the verge of being shafted once again. It also shows that little attention has been paid to the discussion of Ranger bows in the CDI.

Clex Mix.7624:

Substance E.4852:

Clex Mix.7624:

Substance E.4852:

The big thing people miss is that expansions aren’t just expansions to explorable content and new dungeons, they are expansions to game mechanics as well. New pvp modes, new skills, new minigames, new ways to earn rewards or new types of rewards. Often games will introduce new classes or new races to play that can change the faction vs faction dynamic or make the world feel more alive. I remember playing EvE when they released the planetary survey expansion. While not the most well recieved expansion, it was still a massive, new way to play the game that was unlike anything they had already and gave a purpose to things that were in the game mostly for flavor. Planets had no use, you just warped to them and they made it look like you were in space. Suddenly, they all had types and certain types yielded different kinds of resources and you competed with other players for those resources. A whole new way to play the game opened up and people had a new set of toys to play with and learn.

We really haven’t gotten much of any of that. As someone pointed out, we are playing the same fundamental game we bought back in 2012. We have no new spvp zones. WvW has never broken free from zerg/coverage to win. We have only gotten 1 new skill per class. We are still going zerk or going home for pve. And finally, we have only had 1 new pve map (zephyr was more of a town). We have gotten new dungeons and paths but they still suffer from the same issues that have plagued dungeons and pve since the start.

We’ve gotten a lot of fluff, temp content and many folks have certainly paid more than enough gems to simulate purchasing an expansion, but the LS just isn’t one. Not when the game and world it’s in is no bigger or complex than it was at the start.

Since their most recent update just hit it’s going to be changing a bit of stuff… whether or not it fixes all the “problems” people have with a game, its going to be a pretty big update. New traits across all trait lines and all classes as well as how they are allocated. Along with what seems to be some world changes and changes to leveling and such.

Now from this exact date its hard to know what exactly they are bringing to the table and how the community will react to it, but one thing is certain…. its progress.

People fail to realize that creating content and or balancing current content and classes, is far from easy in an MMO. Making a new area alone probably takes 100+ hours on testing alone, fixing bugs tweaking hearts and enemies. Balancing classes more than likely takes at least hundreds of hours with multiple people. Fixing bugs is one thing, but revamping a class… and you have to take into account how many employees they have available to test/develop each facet of the game.

After 10 years almost of playing mmo’s you learn to ignore just about every bullkitten crybaby remark/request on current game status by people who think anything they do in the game is the most important focus the dev’s should have… but at some point you can only facepalm so much… a lot of things people say are broken just aren’t and because a certain type of playing works well with others, well obviously the game is broken and stupid….

Try being more constructive with a game’s criticism and voice your opinions in a constructive manner. Dev’s respond a lot better to someone who is level headed and sound minded with their thoughts than someone who’s full of themselves and opinionated to the point where its disrespectful.

Keep in mind, there is no kittening sub…. and kitten this kitten that, why is it kitten? so weird.

You have some seriously thin skin if you think that I was being “disrespectful” or “unreasonable” with what i posted. I posted the truth, and it’s not just me who wants the game to grow, not stagnate, in complexity.

I’ve also been playing MMO’s for 10+ years and the only thing worse than the crybabies are fanboi apologists who think people don’t have aright to voice negative opinions as paying customers and that the staff can do no wrong.

only the top part was pointed towards you

rest of it was to general public.

Forgive me if you took that personal, haven’t had my coffee yet

Fair enough.
Then I too apologize for the “fanboi” section.

Forzani.2584:

So much angst after 1 of 5 new traits is announced. We don’t know what the other traits are. We don’t know what the other classes are going to get. We haven’t tested this new trait so can’t know how effective it is or isn’t.

If you can’t tell how effective a trait that halves the flight time of arrows is then you need more hours on a ranger.

TJV.6239:

I’m going to assume there is more to “Read the Wind” than has been released. In Guild wars 1 Read the Wind is a preparation that increases arrow speed and adds a small damage boost too. Considering they got the name from GW1, I think they will probably add a small damage boost to the trait too. If not…then I am disappoint…

It has looooong since stopped having that damage boost when in pvp though.

This will work exactly as Read the Wind does in GW1 pvp and will be just as unused and boring as it is there.

The fact that they literally copy pasted this skill should tell people about how much thought went into it.

It’s like they saw that using “A” and “D” to dodge arrows was a problem and just decided to solve it the same exact way they did in a game where you couldn’t attack and move at the same time and trolling a Ranger meant you couldn’t use skills.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Atherakhia.4086:

Not only do Rangers need to choose between piercing arrows, eagle eye, spotter, and signet of the beastmaster, but you honesstly think this new trait isn’t the worst of the ones announced, but that it would ever be chosen over the alternatives? Come on dude… you must be trollin’

It is FAR better than the one Ele got. The class that needs sustain…gets a healing bonus to everyone BUT the ele…

We are the only ones that get a trait that has NO affect on us what so ever.

lol far from it. The ele trait could at least be of some use to teammates. Read the Winds has no team utility and barely makes the ranger stronger. It forces us to waste a Grandmaster Trait to compensate for a game engine fault that borders on a mechanical failure. Why waste endurance when you can just side step to avoid arrows that do crap damage at any range but maximum?

It also don’t help that the bow, and this trait, is near pointless when the enemy inevitably gets into melee range with the buttload of gap closers in the game. It also only really affects the Long bow. The short bow is often used too close for arrow speed to be an issue and the axe doesn’t fire arrows.

Clex Mix.7624:

Substance E.4852:

The big thing people miss is that expansions aren’t just expansions to explorable content and new dungeons, they are expansions to game mechanics as well. New pvp modes, new skills, new minigames, new ways to earn rewards or new types of rewards. Often games will introduce new classes or new races to play that can change the faction vs faction dynamic or make the world feel more alive. I remember playing EvE when they released the planetary survey expansion. While not the most well recieved expansion, it was still a massive, new way to play the game that was unlike anything they had already and gave a purpose to things that were in the game mostly for flavor. Planets had no use, you just warped to them and they made it look like you were in space. Suddenly, they all had types and certain types yielded different kinds of resources and you competed with other players for those resources. A whole new way to play the game opened up and people had a new set of toys to play with and learn.

We really haven’t gotten much of any of that. As someone pointed out, we are playing the same fundamental game we bought back in 2012. We have no new spvp zones. WvW has never broken free from zerg/coverage to win. We have only gotten 1 new skill per class. We are still going zerk or going home for pve. And finally, we have only had 1 new pve map (zephyr was more of a town). We have gotten new dungeons and paths but they still suffer from the same issues that have plagued dungeons and pve since the start.

We’ve gotten a lot of fluff, temp content and many folks have certainly paid more than enough gems to simulate purchasing an expansion, but the LS just isn’t one. Not when the game and world it’s in is no bigger or complex than it was at the start.

Since their most recent update just hit it’s going to be changing a bit of stuff… whether or not it fixes all the “problems” people have with a game, its going to be a pretty big update. New traits across all trait lines and all classes as well as how they are allocated. Along with what seems to be some world changes and changes to leveling and such.

Now from this exact date its hard to know what exactly they are bringing to the table and how the community will react to it, but one thing is certain…. its progress.

People fail to realize that creating content and or balancing current content and classes, is far from easy in an MMO. Making a new area alone probably takes 100+ hours on testing alone, fixing bugs tweaking hearts and enemies. Balancing classes more than likely takes at least hundreds of hours with multiple people. Fixing bugs is one thing, but revamping a class… and you have to take into account how many employees they have available to test/develop each facet of the game.

After 10 years almost of playing mmo’s you learn to ignore just about every bullkitten crybaby remark/request on current game status by people who think anything they do in the game is the most important focus the dev’s should have… but at some point you can only facepalm so much… a lot of things people say are broken just aren’t and because a certain type of playing works well with others, well obviously the game is broken and stupid….

Try being more constructive with a game’s criticism and voice your opinions in a constructive manner. Dev’s respond a lot better to someone who is level headed and sound minded with their thoughts than someone who’s full of themselves and opinionated to the point where its disrespectful.

Keep in mind, there is no kittening sub…. and kitten this kitten that, why is it kitten? so weird.

You have some seriously thin skin if you think that I was being “disrespectful” or “unreasonable” with what i posted. I posted the truth, and it’s not just me who wants the game to grow, not stagnate, in complexity.

I’ve also been playing MMO’s for 10+ years and the only thing worse than the crybabies are fanboi apologists who think people don’t have aright to voice negative opinions as paying customers and that the staff can do no wrong.

azizul.8469:

Substance E.4852:

azizul.8469:

Distaste.4801:

azizul.8469:

they should have add 10 points to total score for each enemy you kill (in addition to the bloodlust killing score).

that way stacking on a server does not guarantee a win.

You realize that would make things worse right? When a server outnumbers you and can run a full zerg vs your 15-20 you’re just feeding them points. You either stop playing that map and they tick for more points or keep feeding them points. Either way they still win. WvW at this point cannot be saved. They needed a new scoring/matching system months after launch when it was very apparent what they had was a giant failure.

Not necessarily. Certain server with “We Don’t PPT” attitude, but with more of zergbustings would agree with me.

If people don’t care about PPT then they can mosey on over to the EotM. It’s pretty much designed specifically for that.

like i said, if they added 10 points for each enemy you kill, that would balance out PPT.

Not at all, as has already been said, a large zerg will just farm a smaller one till the point gap is too big for anyone to care any more.

The current bloodlust stomp bonus is enough to keep smart people from diving into the meat grinder over and over. No one will start a fight they can’t guarantee win if they have to worry about feeding 600 points to the enemy in 5 minutes.

azizul.8469:

Distaste.4801:

azizul.8469:

they should have add 10 points to total score for each enemy you kill (in addition to the bloodlust killing score).

that way stacking on a server does not guarantee a win.

You realize that would make things worse right? When a server outnumbers you and can run a full zerg vs your 15-20 you’re just feeding them points. You either stop playing that map and they tick for more points or keep feeding them points. Either way they still win. WvW at this point cannot be saved. They needed a new scoring/matching system months after launch when it was very apparent what they had was a giant failure.

Not necessarily. Certain server with “We Don’t PPT” attitude, but with more of zergbustings would agree with me.

If people don’t care about PPT then they can mosey on over to the EotM. It’s pretty much designed specifically for that.

insanemaniac.2456:

meh so what

well be fine

its not like theyre merging servers in the middle of it, thats the kind of change that would actually make the tourney questionable

It’s going to take them a week just to iron out all the bugs. Gonna suck if people end up having to WvW without traits one night because the reset system glitched out and wouldn’t let folks reallocate points after a reset.

gawker.8340:

I’m calling it now!

Other four GM traits that Ranger will get is worse than “Read the Wind”

I’m trying to think of bigger wastes of trait space and I really can’t think of any.

Unless this also makes all our mysterious “missed even though the arrow clearly touched the target 300 units away” and “obstructed” glitches magically go away, this trait will probably see about as much use as our water spirit heal.