I wouldn’t say that people make baseless complaints, but I do feel they blow things out of proportion, or don’t understand the concept of balance around high skill competition.
The longbow and shortbow should have never operated so similarly, and the damage should have always had its highest focus coming from the player (I’m talking like 90% player, 10% pet).
I personally think that when one person who is popular in the community expressed his justified concerns, it turned into a bunch of lemmings crying about the apocalypse.
Anet did this awesome thing for GW1, they split the skills between pve/pvp. The only reason they don’t do that now is plain laziness. They know it, and we know it.
There is absolutely no reason to balance the skills the same. People in pvp don’t have the same abilities, or the same stats as mobs in pve. So balancing them to do more damage to someone with 17 to 20k health is going to suck when they fight something with 250k health.
I think that’s more of a dungeon argument to begin with, because I have no problem melting any mob in PvE with any build or weapon.
So if there are any changes that are going to be made, I’m sure the dev teams communicate with each other and reach these decisions.
As far as I know, pets were always dead to begin with in dungeons(thats what a lot of the community seems to think), using shortbow wasn’t an optimal way to run dungeons, and now, rangers have the option to trait to give their dungeon group perma regen and swiftness. It doesn’t sound like they hurt all that much other than peoples feelings that they can’t 1 spam at 1200 range to me.
The perma swiftness and regen is still not nearly enough to bring a ranger over a guardian as a support role.
Ranger profession
* Removed ranger profession from the game. They weren’t supposed to be there in the first place.
Oh no, we are supposed to be here. We’re just the plucky comic relief of the game now.
Whenever you feel bad about lag or get screwed by the mystic toilet a Ranger walks on set, says something stupid, falls over and everyone laughs and feels a whole lot better.
Rangers shortbow is nerfed all 5 skills from 1200 to 900… Thanks Anet I’ve wanted to return GW2 for some time now, and this probably enables me to do so.
They’re called RANGERS for a reason they fight at range. Might as well call the profession a melee class kthxbyeinb4haters
… That isn’t why they’re called Rangers. Ranger refers to someone who roams ranges of land. I.e. a nomad, or a sentinel, or a warden. In most fantasy settings, rangers are mobile skirmishers who are adept at both melee and range.
After all, it’s the ONLY logical explanation for the pet damage reduction. Otherwise you would have to conclude that the Ranger dev is incompetent, and that’s highly unlikely.
You’re implying we have anyone who represents the ranger class. That’s the real joke.
I was chasing people down all month (may) using rune of speed! I play 2-4 hours of wvw every day on Jade Quarry. Don’t tell me I don’t know that zergs stop and blast powerful fields just for the swiftness. Zergs snail tail all the time because of slow pokes. Not everyone is running a 25% speed signet or swiftness yet OP writes, and I quote, “I can’t chase ANYONE down anymore”. You are so wrong I’m almost at a loss of words. I think you guys are just haters. You must like to bellyache.
So you pat yourself on the back for killing terrible players who can’t keep up with the zerg? Interesting…
Y i know,everything is bleak..Anet failled you again.Still i wonder why tho…Where does all this hatred comes from?Why Anet hate Rangers?
I personally believe that they arent..Just spend some time testing things,im pretty sure that they have tested too.
Im a realistic guy,i cant believe that they just nerfed to the ground pets just because some low skill players said so
I strongly believe that they test it and found something that we havent yet..
Meanwhile the army of minmaxers that nail the game down to a science still think the Ranger is kitten and laugh at us for playing it.
Still not confirmed, but highly likely. Who would fake a 36,000 character changelog? I know I don’t have that kind of time on my hands, not to mention how similar these changes are to what devs have stated and that the devs never denied these leaked notes. Btw, I love that the guys that think these are fake are same guy’s opinions I already ignore on this forum.
If I have free time and was bored, I would, especially once it’s confirmed their false(if in these patch notes case) and everyone’s bummed their changes they planed on were wrong.
And of course they’d be similar, they were released on the same day they stated the changes, to make matters worse these patch notes were “leaked” AFTER the blog post came out so literally anyone coulda made them.
And for the silence thing, everyone said the same kitten thing when I was saying “Zhaitan fight is bugged!” And everyone replied with, “No way! Anet would’ve said its bugged by now if it was!” But you know, only took Anet like 2 months to pop in and confirm it was bugged, their silence means nothing.
You would go to the effort to fake that if you had the free time and were bored. That tells me all I need to know about you. Second, your first sentence makes no sense so I read no further. Let me demonstrate my point. “If I have free time and was bored, I would, especially once it’s confirmed their false(if in these patch notes case) and everyone’s bummed their changes they planed on were wrong.” Correct me if I’m wrong but you say you would create fake patch notes after it is confirmed those other patch notes are fake and would be more willing to do it if everyone else is bummed because their planned changes won’t be accurate? Seems sadistic doesn’t it? Leading my back to my first comment.
Anyway, unless otherwise specified, it is hard to determine if that website gained the patch notes from the original leak or from ANET themselves. We shall see tomorrow.
Why would anet give them patch notes before a launch when they have never, ever done so in the past and especially days after said notes were already leaked to pretty much everyone by now?
Also rather odd that Dulfy managed to get legit info on the update concerning the content and the new dungeon and yet has no info on the balance notes.
@Durzulla
They are real. Some things can change just before 25th, but mostly they are true. Trust me
Why should we trust you?
This, and the whole, “I’m an alpha tester, so trust me it’s real!” Nonsense doesn’t fly for me, I need something more substantial than that.
I mean, for kittens sakes I could be running around saying “it’s bull kitten, trust me I’m in Alpha!”
I’m sure anet doesn’t make their testers sign an NDA and sure wouldn’t enforce it on a forum where your account name is your user name.
I’m sure anet isn’t dumb enough to not notice people going around on the forum “confirming” patch notes without flat out saying “I’m in alpha trust me they’re right”.
The funny thing is, the fact that they have taken no stance on it makes me think there must be at least some truth to them since it would cost them nothing to disprove a lie but it makes them look mighty stupid to say they are fake only to roll out a patch that is oddly similar.
I can’t help but think that they may at least be an early draft of the update and not the finished product.
And I was mostly being sarcastic in that they wouldn’t let anyone, players especially, say things like “they’re real” or “they are on the test server” on their own forums if they were really in a position to know for a fact.
Half necros to compensate for the half guardians running around. Reduce boon meta and necro drops in importance.
And by half necros you likely mean zergs, because necro is absolute garbage for roaming.
Has nothing to do with the Guardians and everything to do with marks and wells being both powerful and able to be layered on top of one another to the point that an area becomes an instagib zone for anything not speced for pure deffense.
Dying because you got chain feared by 5 reapers marks in an AoE clusterkitten is only funny the first time it happens.
Step out of the wells and stop running melee trains.
Okay cool, I’ll just range attack my way through a choke point. That’ll work for sure.
…another worth mentioning, is that other AI, mostly Champs Legends, maybe even silver elites… actually seem to do BONUS damage to our Pets. I can regularly get overwhelmed by certain mobs all spamming their Burst openers on my Vit/Tough Ranger while my Wolf seems to be able to withstand them longer. But against Higher Rank mobs… it seems like the opposite situation where even my Polar Bear gets 2-shotted while it takes atleast 3 of their biggest hits to put any hurt on me.
If I could figure out a clean way of testing this, I’d document it with a Video :p
I wouldn’t be surprised if they did as some blanket measure to avoid people cheesing bosses by overwhelming them with npcs and turrets.
Listing fees are just another way for them to eat your gold up so more players want to buy gem$$$$$$$$
No it’s called an anti-inflation measure. Any good mmo finds a way of making money evaporate because without it it just builds up in the system until everything costs so much that no new players can get into the game and it slowly dies from stagnation.
They specifically did not implement a trade function in this game. Why else is that? Hmm.
There’s plenty of other games with both a trade function and auction house fees.
Because trade between players is filled with scams and I’m sure they got tired of support being flooded by stupid people who didn’t double check the trade before hitting ‘agree’.
I actually kind of pity anyone desperate enough to try to take advantage of the horrible conversion rate of cash to gold through the gem system.
No it’s called an anti-inflation measure. Any good mmo finds a way of making money evaporate because without it it just builds up in the system until everything costs so much that no new players can get into the game and it slowly dies from stagnation.
The only one that really opens anything major is the perma aoe swiftness and that will be heavily determined on how large the radius is and whether there will be an aoe target cap on it.
The other changes are nice but none of them really make up for proposed pet nerfs in terms of damage output. Companion’s Might may make up for it but I doubt they would nerf the damage on pets only to provide us a way to buff their damage higher than ever with effortless might stacking.
Im a bit confused. why are people saying Bunker builds were nerfed? just because of pet damage reductions?
In wvw i gave up on the Jaguar a while ago as it serves no purpose to the group you are in. IMHO utility is the name of the game. So ive been using River Drake for the Finisher they use, regardless if its in my HS or my BF it really adds a nice dynamic to the skirmish at hand.
for my second pet i run Wolf , for the fear,cripple,KD.
(got a lil long winded there, sorry) So whats the scoop? why are folks saying Bunkers are nerfed?
thanks a ton
The Jaguar is good for piling on as much damage as you can on a downed guy you can’t quite reach. As far as a pet best suited for zergs I’d say it’s a toss up between the jungle stalker’s aoe 5might and the red moa’s aoe fury. I’d probably go with the stalker just because it will be much more of a help if you get jumped by a roaming thief while trying to catch up to the zerg and it appears to be able to slide while using the roar so it doesn’t have to be completely stationary to fire it off.
The heavy male armor made me laugh. The gear on the shoulder makes it look like you are a part of a life-size key-chain
Seriously… I don’t know how someone looked at that & said:
“yeah, that looks good. we’ll stick with that!”
like.. seriously? It’s ridiculous. why would they put that there?
Because it’s steampunk (seriously team, what is it suddenly 2006 again?). The whole idea is you take something vaguely Victorian in design and glue a kittenload of gears and cogs on it. They don’t need to be functional or practical, they just need to be there.
Steampunk is a genre of fiction, not a fashion style. What people do with their clothing may be steampunk-inspired, but generally speaking in steampunk fiction all those gears actually do something. Don’t hate whole thing because the nerds that ruin it with their bad fashion sense have muddied the waters.
Whatever it started as, this is what it is now. Don’t try to throw “no true Scottsman”s at it…
with that shout trait and 10 in BM rangers can give the party perm swiftness and regen only by using the guard shout, which gives your pets perma prot as well. That’s not insignificant.
You seriously need to look at the bigger picture, not just on one skill and tell us “it does x y and z, thats not nothing! (or thats not insignificant)” – well of course it is something but compare it to other professions.
In your case a ranger has to spend 30 trait points and a grandmaster trait to make the shouts actually affect the party (instead of pet only) to begin with. In addition to that the party bonus is mediocre at best and redundant on top of that, because there are so many ways to gain regeneration (and swiftness is just unneccessary in most cases) – including our own water field Healing Spring.
Then have a look at Warrior or Guardian shouts – they are beneficial for the whole party without any trait point spent and can provide crucial boons like stability or protection. Granted, the uptime is less but id rather take 5sec stability on demand compared to 20sec regen and swiftness in a dungeon. For WvW stability or condition remove on shout is even more important – at least when running in organized guild groups.
And lets assume our Guardian also wants to spend 30 trait points in Honor to improve the shouts via Pure of Voice (Allies affected by shouts convert one condition to a boon. – which alone is significantly better than Nature’s Voice). Honor also includes the 20% shout recharge reduction and overall provides superior party support. Compare that to Nature Magic, a traitline centered around our gimpy spirits (that dont survive any serious encounter) and some ego stuff.
So when it comes to efficiency, why on earth would you pick that shout-supporting ranger over a shout supporting guardian?
Careful, before you know it someone will hit you with an anecdote about how their tier 5, guild group runs every class and does just fine killing lone wanderers and taking supply camps.
I’m actually excited about the swiftness change because it would mean that for the first time since they debugged pets on walls, we will finally contribute in wvw. Still pointless in large fights, but it’s somthing.
There’s too many things that make me think they’re NOT real to make me prep for them. The top 3 things are:
1) Burning on crit being available in the necromancer POWER tree instead of their condo/crit tree, and Axe Mastery, which increases all their axe damage by 20% AND reduces the CD on it by 20% to a kittening master trait, i mean wut.
2) Tail Swipe and Poison Field combos Weakness not even touched, there’s NO WAY Anet is going to allow an AoE 5s of Weakness and a single target 8s Weakness to stay there when they flat out said all weakness is going to have to come down.
3) Signet of Illusion now working as the community wants it to, despite the fact Anet themselves have flat out said they CAN NOT make it work that way due to tech limitations.
Don’t get your hopes up guys, it looks like someone with way too much time on their hands just made some trollsy notes, if it ends up being true i’m going to be kittening baffledawrfed at some of these things…
EDIT: Oh yeah, going BM would essentially be worthless in the next patch since just about every pet in the game is being nerfed by like 30%, i mean really? Anet isn’t going to smash our pets in the face -that- badly without giving us some pretty major DPS increases on our own skills.
Nothing in the notes at this point makes me go “nah, no way Anet would do that”, not after our water buffs and all the silly kitten they did in GW1.
As far as not touching the weakness on tail swipe, I have a feeling they might not even be aware it does that since it isn’t listed in the tool tip and it took them this long just to figure out the Rainbow and Blue Jellyfish were the exact same pet.
They could also be completely bogus, Anet has remained silent so far but they have said that pets will be getting a damage nerf (because massively reducing leash range in spvp was just too dang hard) so that’s going to happen one way or another.
I like to hope that they will compensate us but I know I’m not the only one still waiting for the damage on the Sb that went ‘poof’ a while back.
The heavy male armor made me laugh. The gear on the shoulder makes it look like you are a part of a life-size key-chain
Seriously… I don’t know how someone looked at that & said:
“yeah, that looks good. we’ll stick with that!”
like.. seriously? It’s ridiculous. why would they put that there?
Because it’s steampunk (seriously team, what is it suddenly 2006 again?). The whole idea is you take something vaguely Victorian in design and glue a kittenload of gears and cogs on it. They don’t need to be functional or practical, they just need to be there.
I think all of those that are supporting the reduction in pet damage are forgetting one simple fact: pets had a really hard time making hits land on mobile targets.
It’s hilarious how little people move in any kind of pvp combat. Folks seem to think they can stack on kittenloads of Vitality and Toughness and that they should become brick house gods of tanking, cry like children when it doesn’t work and then Anet does something like nerf damage on a class that was near the butt end of the bus to begin with.
Every armour class complains about their limitations.
If you’re medium, you’re gonna have to wear a longcoat almost without exception.
If you’re light, you’re going to have a skirt or robe.
If you’re heavy you can forget wearing anything soft, it’s all metal clasps, plates and spikes.
As a light armour user I often look longingly at the straps and buckles all the medium armours get, and wish I could have an outfit that didn’t have a skirt
My cloth casters would love to have pants… and not the lone set of harem pants.
On the other hand, the guys have to wear robes as well, so I shouldn’t complain too much.
How many MMORPG’s have male casters in pants at end game?
Guess I’ll keep my ranger in farm mode until this profession gets fixed.
Why bother with that? Rangers are among the worst PvE professions.
How do you figure?
What can a ranger do that other classes can’t do far better?
DPS? No. We’re nerfed to kitten in that department. It’s not even “we don’t compare to warriors, mesmers or guardians”. In full zerker we don’t compare to anyone . If we go 30 in power, burn 2 signets and elite we get a decent burst, but it has very low upkeep and still won’t match the top classes, even in that brief period.
Utility? Not even close. Mesmers reign supreme with their cc, timewarp, portal, blink…
Support? Pffft. As if. Guardians do more team support while retaining much higher DPS. If you really want more support/healing then staff ele will do way more of that while retaining way higher damage and AoE.
The thing rangers could bring to the table would be tanking, which is meaningless in PvE – things you can tank you don’t need to, and things you’d want to tank you can’t. And guardians would be better at that even…
So what’s left? Being “ball and chain”ed to stupid cripple AI? My warrior is jealous. Really.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that you can’t do PvE on them, PvE is simple for the most part, but that you’ll underperform. You can do lvl 50 fractals on them… but so can any other class, and better.
^ This
So many delusional people in this forum who think nothing’s wrong and the update is A okay simply because they are able to participate and confuse being able with being excellent. There pretty much isn’t any reason to be a ranger in Teir 1 WvW simply because any role we can fit some other class will do better and bring more to the group than we can.
The new “10 seconds of aoe swiftness and regen on shout” that we may or may not get might help a bit but I don’t see any future for the Ranger at all in high end WvW until the devs wake up and fix things like spirits ect.
Might as well just use axe if you want closer combat in a zerg. The bounce tags more people and axe2 is a better snare than sb4 while allowing the build freedom of 4 off hands (especially if axe4 gets a pull which will be amazing in pvp).
Anet`s silence on this makes think they are real and intentionally “leaked” … purely my opinion though.
It really wouldnt be that bad of a move on their part, honestly.
These are obviously some pretty big changes, and if they unofficially leak it, they get a free opportunity to gauge players reactions without actually committing to anything.
lol as if they actually gave a crap. This is Anet, not CCP…
I don’t think it makes a huge difference, just because to get the most out of SB you have to circle strafe at short-mid range. If you were standing at 1200 with a SB you were doing it wrong anyway.
Because you can’t strafe at 901+ range? Especially in an open setting like WvW?
Also, good bye snaring a foe at 901-1200 range it was fun while it lasted.
Half the problem is we have a good selection of stun breakers but Anet derped out and decided that it shouldn’t count as a stun (obviously it is). It’s even more silly that the condition icon is chains and the icon for stun break is breaking chains.
Half necros to compensate for the half guardians running around. Reduce boon meta and necro drops in importance.
And by half necros you likely mean zergs, because necro is absolute garbage for roaming.
Has nothing to do with the Guardians and everything to do with marks and wells being both powerful and able to be layered on top of one another to the point that an area becomes an instagib zone for anything not speced for pure deffense.
Dying because you got chain feared by 5 reapers marks in an AoE clusterkitten is only funny the first time it happens.
I play a Mesmer a good bit also, and from what they are saying we also get it, this could be devastating to say the least, again hopefully its traited correctly, if its not, WvW is going to turn into Necro/Mesmer/Thief only.
WvW isn’t only roaming… all organized guild groups (15+) I’ve seen on Gandara and the servers we faced run with all the professions, with a strong component of guardians and warriors
Tier 1 is already like half necros (not really but still pretty bad) a new condition that punishes movement will only make things worse.
Well the devs already don’t like the Ranger and the guy in charge of dungeons thinks the Ranger is just fine so I wouldn’t hold your breath.
I was hoping that they would buff the rangers damage when they nerf the pet to keep things level and that would mean a stronger dungeonering class, but, fatchance of that happening…
I do have a feeling it’s gonna be the same old story every month though. The elites (i.e. eles, guardians, warriors, mesmers) complain about some aspect or other of ranger being overpowered because they couldn’t stand it being the dark horse of the professions (i.e. the profession that, if played right, can decimate anyone). So naturally they run to Anet and talk smack about us because they should be the only ones with all the power, and of course Anet bend them over and wipe their arses for them.
Lets not forget that it’s pretty obvious at this point that the people in charge of balance don’t really play the class so they have no idea what they are doing even if they actually tried to do it right.
It took about 2 years for the ranger to reach it’s full potential and be recognized for it in the first guild wars. Which sounds more bleak than positive, but still.
No it didn’t. Rangers were gods in pvp from day 1. Don’t you remember the cripshot build with distortion and storm chaser?
Anet failed rangers in gw2, unfortunately. Just like they did with mesmers.
I don’t know about gods, but we were indispensable CC/pressure units in most every balanced team.
The only real reason we ever got nerfs in pvp was because the devs got all kitten y over people succeeding with Ranger spike.
So they can kill you faster cause now all pets meerly tickle them…
Pets do a lot of dmg,before the dmg nerf was a AI that you cant fully control and does a lot of dmg..Learn to control it better and pets will provide more dmg after the nerf
Oh I just have to learn to control my pet? well cool then I feel better I was under this crazy assumption that I knew that already and that every useful pet we have will lose either it’s (possible) sustained damage or it’s burst entirely.
take these:
1.Stability Training:This trait now causes the pet to ignore the incoming crowd control skill as well as granting stability. This has a 10 second internal recharge.
2.Beastmasters Might: This trait now grants 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds.
3.Companion’s Might: This trait now grants 5 seconds of might to your pet, up from 1 second.
4.Fortifying Bond
5.Rampage as One
Stack might to your pet,build for pets to do dmg,dont exept to be given to you easily…
Please stop with the smug attitude you’re talking like I’m not even putting points in traits and want my pets to kill things while I go afk, nobody likes nerfs and they shouldn’t if what we see is correct then petburst is effectively removed and that is huge in pvp sure enough we don’t know yet how exactly this will all play out but to me it doesn’t look very good for the parts where we are weakest namely burst damage.
Manekks definitely right on this. Looking through the notes, all of rangers burst capabilities aside from maybe Maul are now, or are being turned into sustained output options.
I think the devs are finally driving the point home; rangers were not meant to be a burst class.
I’m already seeing mesmers and thieves coming from everywhere and they don’t even need to stealth/blink to avoid my pet anymore when they come to file me into tiny little pieces
I’m already dreading WvW. That kitten is already 50% necros and it will be even worse when they can spam a condition that penalizes you for moving (something you do a crap load of in WvW).
Wait…did you seriously just said Flame Trap is a waste of a utility slot? You’ve just invalidated all your posts with that one.
Flame trap is amazing, firing off concussion and crippling shot simply because there is a fire field in front you is not.
I probably should have used a word other than ‘utility’ to describe SB 2-5.
No they are utility weapon skills, it is an appropriate word. The point is that when you do fire them it is smart to make use of a combo field. Burning and cripple is better than just cripple.
I just meant as in there are literal utility skills 7-9 and skills that are utilitarian in nature and using the word for both caused confusion.
And I agree completely, but when I’m in a pvp setting, I am going to hold on to a dodge or stun for when I absolutely need it. If I can combo with a field then that is just aces, but it isn’t what I am primarily looking out for.
Wait…did you seriously just said Flame Trap is a waste of a utility slot? You’ve just invalidated all your posts with that one.
Flame trap is amazing, firing off concussion and crippling shot simply because there is a fire field in front you is not.
I probably should have used a word other than ‘utility’ to describe SB 2-5.
Ahh, thanks for the correction. The entire post is different when you say SB 2-5 (which I admit are pretty bad).
I feel the conditions need a massive duration boost compared to other classes ability to cripple and stun at range, but I do like the usefulness they can afford. The dodge on 3 has saved my bacon more than a few times lol.
Are these verified? Why decrease SB to 900? Call me suspicious but hey, “Trust but verify” you know.
People weren’t taking LB because SB had the same range for more DPS and conditions. Now that’s been replaced with less range for more DPS and conditions.
Anyone who thinks a 15-20% increase in damage on SB 2-5 is a dps boost has never used the thing before.
DPS = Damage per second
Conditions play into that, and #1 does all the DPSing, not the other 4.
So then explain your logic that they reduced the damage but increased the dps because, according to the notes, they didn’t touch the damage or conditions on crossfire nor did they increase the duration of poison volley.
Also let me inform you that you have 3 projectile finishers at Shortbow…Well i geuss that youve never fired above a fire field with dakittens ok,you will do it now
No, I wouldn’t, because I’m not a terrible player that blows their utility skills for a few ticks of burning.
Are these verified? Why decrease SB to 900? Call me suspicious but hey, “Trust but verify” you know.
People weren’t taking LB because SB had the same range for more DPS and conditions. Now that’s been replaced with less range for more DPS and conditions.
Anyone who thinks a 15-20% increase in damage on SB 2-5 is a dps boost has never used the thing before.
DPS = Damage per second
Conditions play into that, and #1 does all the DPSing, not the other 4.
So then explain your logic that they reduced the damage but increased the dps because, according to the notes, they didn’t touch the damage or conditions on crossfire nor did they increase the duration of poison volley.
please edit your post to include the fact that if these notes are real, the SB received flat damage upgrades to compensate. The LB also received a lot of love. The sky is not falling
I know right? I can’t wait for my crippling shot to deal 230 damage instead of 200 damage at 900 range. Watch out virtually every other class, the Ranger’s back!
Are these verified? Why decrease SB to 900? Call me suspicious but hey, “Trust but verify” you know.
People weren’t taking LB because SB had the same range for more DPS and conditions. Now that’s been replaced with less range for more DPS and conditions.
Anyone who thinks a 15-20% increase in damage on SB 2-5 is a dps boost has never used the thing before.
