Guild Wars 2

Guardian’s are fine and need nothing at this time

in fact being ignored by a developer team is generally a good thing

Wow this is a new one.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The Primary.6371:

All the new grand masters are virtually pathetic, poorly placed or are not even deserving of being grandmaster traits. Not seeing any build diversity for thieves in spvp or pve.

Speak for yourself. RT, RoS and BA GM traits are not what you think they are.

??

Do tell

Currently the thief loses the initiative cost of the skill that was interrupted

So if you interrupt HS the thief loses 3 initiative. Auto attacks cost none so none is lost.

Though a thief player might know a bit more than myself

There should be nothing changed for vital shot. P/D is perhaps the most over performing weaponset for thieves period. Any changes would make P/D even more face roll easy.

P/P can just continue to suck IMHO

P Fun Daddy.1208:

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And again you take the easy way out.

What’s it called if you repeat the same action (aka counter arguing this same topic) over and over again expecting a different result?

If you aren’t willing to do so, don’t bother to post in the first place.

You’re trying to kill an extremely enjoyable fight for me.

ofc I’ll say something

I’m not trying to kill anything. I’m trying to promote skillful play by pointing out mechanics that don’t reward skillful play and even punish it and presenting a possible way to remedy that.

You start posting on this thread, insult me, post volumes worth of ad hominem (which you then claim is a fake latin phrase), and then avoid actually debating me on the issue at hand to the point that I begin to doubt that you actually have an argument behind all of your mindless personal attacks. Of course I’ll take issue with that.

In your ignorance you will be killing skillful counter play that currently exists. You’ve been told repeatedly how this is so. You keep choosing to ignore said counter plays and continue posting to destroy it.

You also wanna incorrectly use kewl latin phrases hoping that it will deceive people into believing your idea is something more than redressed rubbish. This also seems to be your tactic of choice when an informed person (Me) pulls your card and calls your bullkitten.

I’m liking the new appeal to the mods because I’m a mean poster tactic you seem to want to take as well.

You need to follow the ToS on these forums honestly.

First your idea is spam. We’ve all read this thread a hundred times already.

Second you’ve obviously didn’t search the forum since w/e info you need to tell you why your spam idea is bad for the game has been posted a bazillion times already.

Ad hominem is a technical term, which is by now so far dissociated from Latin that understanding what I mean by it can be likened to understanding the meaning of “P.S.”, which is an abbreviation of post script, another Latin term. It’s pretty common, to the point that I’m shocked that you think using it is an attempt to make my calling you out on doing it sound prettier.
Here’s a few links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem

More importantly, you tricked me into thinking I had actually posted something within the last month that could remotely imply that I thought thieves were OP, because there was a point in time where I legitimately thought that and posted moderately frequently on it. Turns out the last post of that nature was on February 25th, when I said that stealth was bad for the game in it’s current implementation, five pages into my post history, and I don’t remember you being around on the forums then. That makes this the first comment I’ve made on thief balance in close to two months, and I have not once claimed that thief was overpowered at any point in this thread.

So actually, every single time I have claimed that you were using ad hominem arguments in this thread I have been wrong. Ad hominem arguments, while still fallacious, are at least truthful.

Wow…..I think you should delete this one mate.

I dare you, go read through my post history. I guarantee you, you will be unable to find a post that says there is a problem with thieves outside of this thread until page five.

Shouldn’t have posted this either mate.

Lets get a close or let this one die due to proposal getting exposed.

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In your ignorance you will be killing skillful counter play that currently exists. You’ve been told repeatedly how this is so. You keep choosing to ignore said counter plays and continue posting to destroy it.

I will give you a piece of information that someone may not have told you though. Back Stab isn’t an instant ability. It channels. That is by design to give you MORE than enough to time avoid/prepare/defend the 2nd attempt at landing one after you get the huge tell of Block/Miss/Evade/Etc.

Thank You

snip

Go back and reread all the counter arguments. I’m not going through them again when plenty of people have already posted such things.

Go to the thief forum and find some more counter arguments.

After researching all the counter arguments that have previously been made you might understand why you should just stop posting. I do believe you have the capacity of coming to this conclusion and I will accept PMs to aid you in your quest to enlighten oneself.

Thank You

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And again you take the easy way out.

What’s it called if you repeat the same action (aka counter arguing this same topic) over and over again expecting a different result?

If you aren’t willing to do so, don’t bother to post in the first place.

You’re trying to kill an extremely enjoyable fight for me.

ofc I’ll say something

I’m not trying to kill anything. I’m trying to promote skillful play by pointing out mechanics that don’t reward skillful play and even punish it and presenting a possible way to remedy that.

You start posting on this thread, insult me, post volumes worth of ad hominem (which you then claim is a fake latin phrase), and then avoid actually debating me on the issue at hand to the point that I begin to doubt that you actually have an argument behind all of your mindless personal attacks. Of course I’ll take issue with that.

In your ignorance you will be killing skillful counter play that currently exists. You’ve been told repeatedly how this is so. You keep choosing to ignore said counter plays and continue posting to destroy it.

You also wanna incorrectly use kewl latin phrases hoping that it will deceive people into believing your idea is something more than redressed rubbish. This also seems to be your tactic of choice when an informed person (Me) pulls your card and calls your bullkitten.

I’m liking the new appeal to the mods because I’m a mean poster tactic you seem to want to take as well.

You need to follow the ToS on these forums honestly.

First your idea is spam. We’ve all read this thread a hundred times already.

Second you’ve obviously didn’t search the forum since w/e info you need to tell you why your spam idea is bad for the game has been posted a bazillion times already.

Ad hominem is a technical term, which is by now so far dissociated from Latin that understanding what I mean by it can be likened to understanding the meaning of “P.S.”, which is an abbreviation of post script, another Latin term. It’s pretty common, to the point that I’m shocked that you think using it is an attempt to make my calling you out on doing it sound prettier.
Here’s a few links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem

More importantly, you tricked me into thinking I had actually posted something within the last month that could remotely imply that I thought thieves were OP, because there was a point in time where I legitimately thought that and posted moderately frequently on it. Turns out the last post of that nature was on February 25th, when I said that stealth was bad for the game in it’s current implementation, five pages into my post history, and I don’t remember you being around on the forums then. That makes this the first comment I’ve made on thief balance in close to two months, and I have not once claimed that thief was overpowered at any point in this thread.

So actually, every single time I have claimed that you were using ad hominem arguments in this thread I have been wrong. Ad hominem arguments, while still fallacious, are at least truthful.

Wow…..I think you should delete this one mate.

Trickery Builds > SA builds 1v1 bar none

Shoot I’ve had easier times against the SA thieves than the Lyssa pr0 daze spammers who thought it took some magical skill to do. The other great ones were the 3 spam thieves….

Either way Caed is far from the best thief to ever play. Don’t make excuses for em or claim some stupid reason why he got smoked.

Warriors are great too

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I would listen, at least long enough to see if they actually had a new idea or if they were spouting the same BS they were before.

Given that “a new idea” is exactly what happened here in this thread, I suggest you actually try reading the OP and evaluating the idea presented instead of making the ad honimen attacks. After reading your posts in this thread, I don’t think you even know what his idea is, as you have made no reference at all to it.

There was no new idea just the same old “thieves shouldn’t spam bs”

Besides as a Necro you shouldnt be losing to thieves 1v1

I was so excited! This is your first post in this entire thread that actually addressed any part of my argument, but then you had to follow it up with yet another ad hominem that additionally assumed something never stated or even implied.

At least I have an actual argument to respond to now, though.
You are entirely correct in saying that I share a premise with other ideas (that is, that repeatedly pressing 1 to ignore aegis/blind/dodging for a powerful attack is probably not the best example of intelligent play ever), however I did propose something I think is a more fair solution to the perceived problem than previously suggested ones.
So to make this perfectly clear, do you think that backstabbing through active defenses with little to no drawback is a good thing? Wouldn’t it be better for well-timed active defenses to prevent such a strong attack?

Edit: To the post you made while I was making this one, I simply would like flaming to stay out of this thread (which is essentially what your arguments here boil down to, and I will admit some of my posts as well), because it deters people who actually have something to say about the idea itself, be it good or bad, from posting. Again, it would make me very happy if a mod could delete the flaming.

There is no response to make that all the people who actually play thieves haven’t already said on the subject the last 12 times it was posted. You refuse to listen and repost the same crap in a different thread

So now It’s simple.

L2p

I did and guess what?? Thieves are actually fun to fight…Scratch that GOOD thieves are fun to fight. Average thief is a free kill tbh. Heck all but the best are free kills

Y

And again you take the easy way out.

What’s it called if you repeat the same action (aka counter arguing this same topic) over and over again expecting a different result?

If you aren’t willing to do so, don’t bother to post in the first place.

You’re trying to kill an extremely enjoyable fight for me.

ofc I’ll say something

I’m not trying to kill anything. I’m trying to promote skillful play by pointing out mechanics that don’t reward skillful play and even punish it and presenting a possible way to remedy that.

You start posting on this thread, insult me, post volumes worth of ad hominem (which you then claim is a fake latin phrase), and then avoid actually debating me on the issue at hand to the point that I begin to doubt that you actually have an argument behind all of your mindless personal attacks. Of course I’ll take issue with that.

In your ignorance you will be killing skillful counter play that currently exists. You’ve been told repeatedly how this is so. You keep choosing to ignore said counter plays and continue posting to destroy it.

You also wanna incorrectly use kewl latin phrases hoping that it will deceive people into believing your idea is something more than redressed rubbish. This also seems to be your tactic of choice when an informed person (Me) pulls your card and calls your bullkitten.

I’m liking the new appeal to the mods because I’m a mean poster tactic you seem to want to take as well.

You need to follow the ToS on these forums honestly.

First your idea is spam. We’ve all read this thread a hundred times already.

Second you’ve obviously didn’t search the forum since w/e info you need to tell you why your spam idea is bad for the game has been posted a bazillion times already.

Third just because you want to dress up your rude posting with latin phrases and bigger words doesn’t mean you aren’t being rude. Also one has quite the valid argument that you are insulting our intelligence with this stuff.

I will give you a piece of information that someone may not have told you though. Back Stab isn’t an instant ability. It channels. That is by design to give you MORE than enough to time avoid/prepare/defend the 2nd attempt at landing one after you get the huge tell of Block/Miss/Evade/Etc.

Thank You

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

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You can’t claim ad homien if you’ve already previously proved you’re a hater only interested in destroying a class.

Actually, he can. The thread has a defined topic. You choose to ignore said topic to attack the person who started it instead. This is the perfect definition of ad honimen arguments (which is correct Latin, btw).

The topic is the same thus throwing it out applies.

If he was putting up a topic and all we knew about him was that he mained Ele/Mesmer than yes ad homien would apply.

Lets look at it this way. If a Westboro Baptist started a thread to have a “discussion” on how to change laws in regards to homosexual citizens would you listen?? Even after you saw that same person protesting homosexual rights at someone’s funeral weeks earlier???

No you wouldn’t…you’d disregard

I would listen, at least long enough to see if they actually had a new idea or if they were spouting the same BS they were before.

Given that “a new idea” is exactly what happened here in this thread, I suggest you actually try reading the OP and evaluating the idea presented instead of making the ad honimen attacks. After reading your posts in this thread, I don’t think you even know what his idea is, as you have made no reference at all to it.

There was no new idea just the same old “thieves shouldn’t spam bs”

Besides as a Necro you shouldnt be losing to thieves 1v1

I was so excited! This is your first post in this entire thread that actually addressed any part of my argument, but then you had to follow it up with yet another ad hominem that additionally assumed something never stated or even implied.

At least I have an actual argument to respond to now, though.
You are entirely correct in saying that I share a premise with other ideas (that is, that repeatedly pressing 1 to ignore aegis/blind/dodging for a powerful attack is probably not the best example of intelligent play ever), however I did propose something I think is a more fair solution to the perceived problem than previously suggested ones.
So to make this perfectly clear, do you think that backstabbing through active defenses with little to no drawback is a good thing? Wouldn’t it be better for well-timed active defenses to prevent such a strong attack?

Edit: To the post you made while I was making this one, I simply would like flaming to stay out of this thread (which is essentially what your arguments here boil down to, and I will admit some of my posts as well), because it deters people who actually have something to say about the idea itself, be it good or bad, from posting. Again, it would make me very happy if a mod could delete the flaming.

There is no response to make that all the people who actually play thieves haven’t already said on the subject the last 12 times it was posted. You refuse to listen and repost the same crap in a different thread

So now It’s simple.

L2p

I did and guess what?? Thieves are actually fun to fight…Scratch that GOOD thieves are fun to fight. Average thief is a free kill tbh. Heck all but the best are free kills

Y

And again you take the easy way out.

What’s it called if you repeat the same action (aka counter arguing this same topic) over and over again expecting a different result?

If you aren’t willing to do so, don’t bother to post in the first place.

You’re trying to kill an extremely enjoyable fight for me.

ofc I’ll say something

P Fun Daddy.1208:

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

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You can’t claim ad homien if you’ve already previously proved you’re a hater only interested in destroying a class.

Actually, he can. The thread has a defined topic. You choose to ignore said topic to attack the person who started it instead. This is the perfect definition of ad honimen arguments (which is correct Latin, btw).

The topic is the same thus throwing it out applies.

If he was putting up a topic and all we knew about him was that he mained Ele/Mesmer than yes ad homien would apply.

Lets look at it this way. If a Westboro Baptist started a thread to have a “discussion” on how to change laws in regards to homosexual citizens would you listen?? Even after you saw that same person protesting homosexual rights at someone’s funeral weeks earlier???

No you wouldn’t…you’d disregard

I would listen, at least long enough to see if they actually had a new idea or if they were spouting the same BS they were before.

Given that “a new idea” is exactly what happened here in this thread, I suggest you actually try reading the OP and evaluating the idea presented instead of making the ad honimen attacks. After reading your posts in this thread, I don’t think you even know what his idea is, as you have made no reference at all to it.

There was no new idea just the same old “thieves shouldn’t spam bs”

Besides as a Necro you shouldnt be losing to thieves 1v1

I was so excited! This is your first post in this entire thread that actually addressed any part of my argument, but then you had to follow it up with yet another ad hominem that additionally assumed something never stated or even implied.

At least I have an actual argument to respond to now, though.
You are entirely correct in saying that I share a premise with other ideas (that is, that repeatedly pressing 1 to ignore aegis/blind/dodging for a powerful attack is probably not the best example of intelligent play ever), however I did propose something I think is a more fair solution to the perceived problem than previously suggested ones.
So to make this perfectly clear, do you think that backstabbing through active defenses with little to no drawback is a good thing? Wouldn’t it be better for well-timed active defenses to prevent such a strong attack?

Edit: To the post you made while I was making this one, I simply would like flaming to stay out of this thread (which is essentially what your arguments here boil down to, and I will admit some of my posts as well), because it deters people who actually have something to say about the idea itself, be it good or bad, from posting. Again, it would make me very happy if a mod could delete the flaming.

There is no response to make that all the people who actually play thieves haven’t already said on the subject the last 12 times it was posted. You refuse to listen and repost the same crap in a different thread

So now It’s simple.

L2p

I did and guess what?? Thieves are actually fun to fight…Scratch that GOOD thieves are fun to fight. Average thief is a free kill tbh. Heck all but the best are free kills

Y

And again you take the easy way out.

What’s it called if you repeat the same action (aka counter arguing this same topic) over and over again expecting a different result?

P Fun Daddy.1208:

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

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You can’t claim ad homien if you’ve already previously proved you’re a hater only interested in destroying a class.

Actually, he can. The thread has a defined topic. You choose to ignore said topic to attack the person who started it instead. This is the perfect definition of ad honimen arguments (which is correct Latin, btw).

The topic is the same thus throwing it out applies.

If he was putting up a topic and all we knew about him was that he mained Ele/Mesmer than yes ad homien would apply.

Lets look at it this way. If a Westboro Baptist started a thread to have a “discussion” on how to change laws in regards to homosexual citizens would you listen?? Even after you saw that same person protesting homosexual rights at someone’s funeral weeks earlier???

No you wouldn’t…you’d disregard

I would listen, at least long enough to see if they actually had a new idea or if they were spouting the same BS they were before.

Given that “a new idea” is exactly what happened here in this thread, I suggest you actually try reading the OP and evaluating the idea presented instead of making the ad honimen attacks. After reading your posts in this thread, I don’t think you even know what his idea is, as you have made no reference at all to it.

There was no new idea just the same old “thieves shouldn’t spam bs”

Besides as a Necro you shouldnt be losing to thieves 1v1

I was so excited! This is your first post in this entire thread that actually addressed any part of my argument, but then you had to follow it up with yet another ad hominem that additionally assumed something never stated or even implied.

At least I have an actual argument to respond to now, though.
You are entirely correct in saying that I share a premise with other ideas (that is, that repeatedly pressing 1 to ignore aegis/blind/dodging for a powerful attack is probably not the best example of intelligent play ever), however I did propose something I think is a more fair solution to the perceived problem than previously suggested ones.
So to make this perfectly clear, do you think that backstabbing through active defenses with little to no drawback is a good thing? Wouldn’t it be better for well-timed active defenses to prevent such a strong attack?

Edit: To the post you made while I was making this one, I simply would like flaming to stay out of this thread (which is essentially what your arguments here boil down to, and I will admit some of my posts as well), because it deters people who actually have something to say about the idea itself, be it good or bad, from posting. Again, it would make me very happy if a mod could delete the flaming.

There is no response to make that all the people who actually play thieves haven’t already said on the subject the last 12 times it was posted. You refuse to listen and repost the same crap in a different thread

So now It’s simple.

L2p

I did and guess what?? Thieves are actually fun to fight…Scratch that GOOD thieves are fun to fight. Average thief is a free kill tbh. Heck all but the best are free kills

Y

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Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

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You can’t claim ad homien if you’ve already previously proved you’re a hater only interested in destroying a class.

Actually, he can. The thread has a defined topic. You choose to ignore said topic to attack the person who started it instead. This is the perfect definition of ad honimen arguments (which is correct Latin, btw).

The topic is the same thus throwing it out applies.

If he was putting up a topic and all we knew about him was that he mained Ele/Mesmer than yes ad homien would apply.

Lets look at it this way. If a Westboro Baptist started a thread to have a “discussion” on how to change laws in regards to homosexual citizens would you listen?? Even after you saw that same person protesting homosexual rights at someone’s funeral weeks earlier???

No you wouldn’t…you’d disregard

To use your example, and assuming you are for gay rights, if a Westboro Baptist church member turned around and began to promote gay marriage, would he still be wrong?

Now before you get your panties in a bundle, I do understand that that is not a metaphor for what I am doing. But immediately assuming I am wrong because of any prior post I have made, and then attempting to convince everyone else of the same without actually considering my argument is blatantly idiotic, especially considering your insistence that attacking someone’s person instead of their argument is not ad hominem, despite the fact that the one and only definition of ad hominem is to reject an argument on the basis of the arguer’s personal characteristics.

More importantly than arguing the basics of debate with someone who clearly is incapable of comprehending them for reasons beyond my knowledge, I ask that a moderator remove this post and all other similarly off-topic/flamey posts from this thread.
Thank you in advance.

Thank you for so eloquently saying that you concede defeat. I’m impressed with the way you realized your errors. Good form.

Next time you would like to discuss any issue you have with any class I’ll be available to discuss. Send me a PM with the link or you can just do it to chat.

Thank You

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

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You can’t claim ad homien if you’ve already previously proved you’re a hater only interested in destroying a class.

Actually, he can. The thread has a defined topic. You choose to ignore said topic to attack the person who started it instead. This is the perfect definition of ad honimen arguments (which is correct Latin, btw).

The topic is the same thus throwing it out applies.

If he was putting up a topic and all we knew about him was that he mained Ele/Mesmer than yes ad homien would apply.

Lets look at it this way. If a Westboro Baptist started a thread to have a “discussion” on how to change laws in regards to homosexual citizens would you listen?? Even after you saw that same person protesting homosexual rights at someone’s funeral weeks earlier???

No you wouldn’t…you’d disregard

I would listen, at least long enough to see if they actually had a new idea or if they were spouting the same BS they were before.

Given that “a new idea” is exactly what happened here in this thread, I suggest you actually try reading the OP and evaluating the idea presented instead of making the ad honimen attacks. After reading your posts in this thread, I don’t think you even know what his idea is, as you have made no reference at all to it.

There was no new idea just the same old “thieves shouldn’t spam bs”

Besides as a Necro you shouldnt be losing to thieves 1v1

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

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You can’t claim ad homien if you’ve already previously proved you’re a hater only interested in destroying a class.

Actually, he can. The thread has a defined topic. You choose to ignore said topic to attack the person who started it instead. This is the perfect definition of ad honimen arguments (which is correct Latin, btw).

The topic is the same thus throwing it out applies.

If he was putting up a topic and all we knew about him was that he mained Ele/Mesmer than yes ad homien would apply.

Lets look at it this way. If a Westboro Baptist started a thread to have a “discussion” on how to change laws in regards to homosexual citizens would you listen?? Even after you saw that same person protesting homosexual rights at someone’s funeral weeks earlier???

No you wouldn’t…you’d disregard

You can’t claim ad homien if you’ve already previously proved you’re a hater only interested in destroying a class.

It doesn’t matter if weeks later you think you’ve come up with what you think is a brand new “discussion” on the same topic. You are still biased and trying to nerf something that is perfectly balanced.

there’s a saying that sums up everything you post

You can put a dress on a pig but in the end it’s still a pig.

In this case just a fancier thief hate thread with falsely used Latin phrases

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OP is still on his anti thief forum spam I see.

Thieves are balanced the way they are and someone who plays mesmer shouldn’t be having ANY problems with thieves

I am the OP.
I think you may be talking about someone else, I certainly don’t spam anti-thief stuff, and while I do play my mesmer occasionally, I main ele because they killed all of the mesmer gameplay I enjoyed (that is, not spamming stealth and not letting AI carry me).

Mesmer/Ele are the biggest thief haters atm

Play a thief and learn

Or be like me and just fight em enough to learn. Either way this post is full of bad ideas and continual unfounded thief hate

Ad hominem (an argumentative fallacy that relies on attacking elements of the opposition’s person that do not directly pertain to the argument at hand).
Either explain why this idea, and only this idea, is bad, or get out of my thread.

Yet you supported the whole BS to cost initiative movement a lil while back. You’ve also made other posts in that area as well….then you just happen to main ele/mesmer who are the leading complainers about thieves in PvP.

O don’t get me wrong you’ve tried your hand at a stealthless thief…whether you finished it and actually fought anything other than AI remains to be seen.

I’ll be staying in this thread to provide a voice of reason among the ideas that would break a class I immensely enjoy fighting against…..because I actually took the time and L2p like they told me too

More ad hominem. I think you either don’t understand the concept, or are a follower of Nietzsche (who believed that ad hominem arguments were the only valid ones). I could think that the president is an alien frog from the center of the earth and it wouldn’t make any other argument I make more or less valid.

I did support the BS initiative cost a while ago, it is true, but I no longer do because frankly this is just a lot more fair to everyone as far as I can see, especially good players of both classes. Frankly, a BS initiative cost wouldn’t really change anything for the bads who just spam it through dodges (because whatever the cost is it would still be worth it), and it would hurt the good players who put thought into it.

Either explain why this idea, and only this idea, is bad, or get out of my thread.

@Icyflame:
Your idea would probably be a viable solution as well, and it has the additional benefit of punishing heartseeker spam as well (which is less an issue of how powerful it is than of how obnoxious it is) though I think thieves would have to be compensated somewhere else in order to compensate for the total power loss (for those who don’t know the logic behind thief skill spam, there tends to be a single skill that just flat out has the best damage/utility ratio, so most of the time there’s just no reason to use anything else).
I also agree that certain defenses are would be abusable (evade thieves would probably be the most frustrating things to fight ever even more than now, and guardian’s OOC aegis would certainly be a place where both of our ideas would tend to fall through, though yours slightly less in terms of cost), but I still feel like that should be weighed against the current lack of effect of good use of those.

I demand more discussion.

P.S. There is a marked distinction between intoxicated snarky me and normal me, please take less offense from the former if at all possible.

Can’t claim ad homien when your card gets pulled because of your previous posts. If all you had to do was throw in a new Latin phrase on the same BS biased argument to pretend like you’re not a hater then Burnfall would be a developer right now…

Uhh if a thief swaps a weapon they don’t get another bar of initiative.

In fact I find most thieves are pretty much screwed once they swap since SB 3 got nerfed.

Also once u start wasting thieves utilities that’s the end of the thief

Hit either F2 F3 or F4 to find moar spells to use.

Use a utility

Ele has 20 skills to use. A thief is LUCKY if they use all of their 1-5 skills. In fact only 1 weaponset uses all 5.

its time to make a thief fort and L2p

Doesn’t matter when its same class vs same class.

The want to be relevant is strong with them

I have no problems wrecking 2 thieves at once on my mesmer.

maybe your build needs to be reworked

Ask Caed how his fights with Xeviel went.

There are more WvW thieves that wrecked him as well.

In fact lots of the sPvP “pros” get wrecked when coming to WvW

P Fun Daddy.1208:

T raw.4658:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

T raw.4658:

OP is still on his anti thief forum spam I see.

Thieves are balanced the way they are and someone who plays mesmer shouldn’t be having ANY problems with thieves

I am the OP.
I think you may be talking about someone else, I certainly don’t spam anti-thief stuff, and while I do play my mesmer occasionally, I main ele because they killed all of the mesmer gameplay I enjoyed (that is, not spamming stealth and not letting AI carry me).

Mesmer/Ele are the biggest thief haters atm

Play a thief and learn

Or be like me and just fight em enough to learn. Either way this post is full of bad ideas and continual unfounded thief hate

Ad hominem (an argumentative fallacy that relies on attacking elements of the opposition’s person that do not directly pertain to the argument at hand).
Either explain why this idea, and only this idea, is bad, or get out of my thread.

Yet you supported the whole BS to cost initiative movement a lil while back. You’ve also made other posts in that area as well….then you just happen to main ele/mesmer who are the leading complainers about thieves in PvP.

O don’t get me wrong you’ve tried your hand at a stealthless thief…whether you finished it and actually fought anything other than AI remains to be seen.

I’ll be staying in this thread to provide a voice of reason among the ideas that would break a class I immensely enjoy fighting against…..because I actually took the time and L2p like they told me too

Ugruk.4069:

Scepter burst is cheesey, okeey,,,,

Macroable Hardware says otherwise

Most don’t care about how good guilds are at WvW because numbers not skill take precedence.

That being said there are good WvW guilds out there just I wouldn’t bet on them vs top GvG guilds

EBay BP AR was phenomenal

Mag EBay was great too

I think Ebay remains the only server to out PvF Mag tbh…tho the Ebay PvE’ers all got perma banned from here

Lux.7169:

Jumper is phenomenal. The drawback being that he quit about 8 months ago. As it is now on the NA scene try to catch Caed while he’s streaming or winning the weekly 2v2s.

Lots of people praise some wvw thieves but they rarely stream and those that do are pretty awful.

Like others said, it’s easy to get 1vXX when you have hundreds of hours of footage to go through. Especially running a high stealth intensive thief.

I distinctively remember Caed getting destroyed 1v1 by a lot of WvW thieves. Granted this was quite awhile ago but it trumps your statement.

Thieves skills are very telegraphed

The most being BP → HS. Scratch that BS is the most telegraphed since if they are stealthed you know it’s coming and actually have literally seconds to counter

Vortok.6975:

Maybe the thief can be visible after taking a hit or some damage like from the moment the thief disappear if he take 1000 damage he will reappear, something like that. With some tweak it might work, no?

Then you realize thieves are super squishy and an auto attack reveals them

Or they go into stealth with a few condi on em and get auto revealed since the only reliable clear is tied to stealth….

People need to let this go with thieves and learn about how they work

P Fun Daddy.1208:

T raw.4658:

OP is still on his anti thief forum spam I see.

Thieves are balanced the way they are and someone who plays mesmer shouldn’t be having ANY problems with thieves

I am the OP.
I think you may be talking about someone else, I certainly don’t spam anti-thief stuff, and while I do play my mesmer occasionally, I main ele because they killed all of the mesmer gameplay I enjoyed (that is, not spamming stealth and not letting AI carry me).

Mesmer/Ele are the biggest thief haters atm

Play a thief and learn

Or be like me and just fight em enough to learn. Either way this post is full of bad ideas and continual unfounded thief hate

Supreme Justice.9508:

Prowie.7460:

Gone Finshin.9452:

up to the 30-40 man groups that run around,

the skill is gone after +25

not true. look up the guild agg, if you have seen them in wvw before they run 35+ and have an extreme amount of skill

No absolutely not true.

OP is still on his anti thief forum spam I see.

Thieves are balanced the way they are and someone who plays mesmer shouldn’t be having ANY problems with thieves

oZii.2864:

T raw.4658:

Any time a class can maintain 20-25 might stacks with ease the hammer comes out

Reason this thread shouldn’t ever have happened

Then you aren’t caught up on the forums and gw2 community. When DnT releases a video it basically becomes the PvE standard which is why the price of the runes went up. People where running around with strength runes before I made this video. I suggested these runes before the patch in another thread they where the first one shown by Anet. It was pretty clear they would be the best runes for damage.

Less publicity least chance of spreading.

Share info with guild and friends…no one else

dietzero.3514:

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dietzero.3514:

T raw.4658:

A single trait should not counter an elite skill

A bug that needs to be fixed IMHO

A single GM AIR TRAIT that is not on cooldown SHOULD counter a stun.

Says you but I disagree since I don’t want a repeat of the Ele meta

Ele was great but I feel we’ll get an influx of fotm players after this…

Wow…did you just say ‘says you!’ to me?

Ok, ignoring everything you say from now on.

Typical I wanna be OP response/behavior

When the bat comes swinging I’ll enjoy your tears

Any time a class can maintain 20-25 might stacks with ease the hammer comes out

Reason this thread shouldn’t ever have happened

Do you really think he made a 12 minute video with voice changer and a lengthy post with reference links to throw people off of his build???

No not at all.

Good build tho and I’ll play around with it myself

dietzero.3514:

T raw.4658:

A single trait should not counter an elite skill

A bug that needs to be fixed IMHO

A single GM AIR TRAIT that is not on cooldown SHOULD counter a stun.

Says you but I disagree since I don’t want a repeat of the Ele meta

Ele was great but I feel we’ll get an influx of fotm players after this…

The amount of falsely self justified elitism in this thread is hilarious considering this game mode is a kittenization of competition

Using active counters to argue for our passive counter isn’t going to fly here

A single trait should not counter an elite skill

A bug that needs to be fixed IMHO

Cogbyrn.7283:

NinjaEd.3946:

snip

So if I appropriately time a dodge against a Thief I can’t see and Evade the Backstab, then get Backstabbed at the end of my dodge roll, that’s perfectly fine and well-designed? Just curious if you see a problem with that scenario.

Just stop.

There is nothing wrong w/ stealth or thieves, and to be perfectly honest Mesmers > Thieves 1v1.

oZii.2864:

T raw.4658:

Why OP would share and not keep it hush is beyond me

That being said it’s a nice build for ele and unfortunately this opens the door for all might stacking classes now

Well I didn’t put anything out there that isn’t known except maybe the food. The runes everyone knows about strength runes. That is why they are 7+ gold and that isn’t because of my video. You can go look in the profession balance forums and see Blackbeard saying they should be nerfed. Which I disagree with but that is for a discussion in that thread.

Everything else I used is standard tbh and nothing really brand new it is just my personal choices really.

You are bringing attention to it and creating another avenue for people to find out about it.

ergo it’s not a bright idea to post this thread/video

ps. Why did you use a voice changer on your video? Having a tough time figuring that one out

I never have problems killing thieves

I just got Backstabbed for 18.23k by a thief in sPvP

Nerf needed ASAP

Vash Past.4385:

phoenix+electric discharge+arcane wave,blast+fire/air sigils+lightning flash+air2 scepter +rtl= 20-25k in 1sec.

Bro I don’t know if it’s reading or counting that’s hard for you, but that’s at least 6 skills/button presses, by any account…. and my usual favorite, something along the lines of
“A thief caught out of stealth is a dead thief” – you mean like how an ele caught out of stealth(all the time, since we don’t stealth) is a dead ele? Aaaand because you’re sooo squishy, stuff your Medium armor class? You literally have it so easy you don’t even realize what squishy means. Lol

My NAGA + Logitech Keyboard says haroo

Why OP would share and not keep it hush is beyond me

That being said it’s a nice build for ele and unfortunately this opens the door for all might stacking classes now

Dead thread should a stayed dead