Guild Wars 2

Burst is possible with haste and stealth

Toke has been messing with engi last i saw

Lulz at the leader board naming thief in a fine place

for us to see this in game means well before reading that means it’s REALLY bad

Taaru.3240:

Its about terrain and area conflicts (besides the obvious steal bug allready posted in other threads). You should add the area in your results. If its not working in WvW and/ or PvP it will still affect most of the players out there.

Yes terrain kittens steal badly

Just had if fail miserably trying to steal up a ramp.

I can say that
FS > Steal works for me w/out a problem
CnD > Steal Works for me
HS > Steal Works for me

Preliminary testing on mobs. Will post more results

Rest of patch in the process of testing power D/P + SB and S/D + P/D

Will edit with thoughts/results

<Update 1>

My steal gets REALLY buggy when traited with Mug
I’ve also noticed HS not hitting during BP HS Steal
Sometimes it all works but BP HS Infsig Steal is a no go

<Update2>

BP nerf is felt. Haven’t fought anyone good (facing Kain/SF no wonder) but Sentries hit through it. This nerf is going to be felt keenly by PvErs

<Update 3>

Rapid Fire needs to go. That much damage from that much range is bad for the game.
Good luck with engies now
Sic Em and Goggles now kill you every time unless user is special
All shadow steps and teleports are fubar’d big time

Prelim Conclusion:

This patch sucks for thieves period, and I have yet to test S/D. Warriors may cry about this patch and say the sky is falling, but for thieves it’s VERY close to it.

Can good thieves still succeed. Yes but only against the absolute worst players in this game. So if anyone now loses 1v1 to any thief in this game it is beyond a question of a doubt a L2P issue…..

No it won’t

10% crit damage vs 100 power had crit damage winning by a small margin (tested in pvp with steady weapons long ago)

250 ferocity will net you 16.666% crit damage. 250 power will out perform it easily

Now if you got 25% crit damage then yes it would but I’m a have to leave this as waste of time currently

Not home on phone can’t see

I’m guessing you can’t stealth using HS steal?

hihey.1075:

Yuo should reroll to dp.
Oh wait, you can’t even BP->HS->Steal into the enemy anymore.

We should all roll condi mesmer and get done with this game, honestly

Wait wtf did they do to this?

All Classes have builds that just don’t die and have good damage out put.

You can thank the rune/sigil revamp for this. Nerf might stacking and a good chunk of these builds will lose the proper amount of damage.

But welcome to Bunker Wars mate

RyuDragnier.9476:

T raw.4658:

Ryu you play a ranger….you can clear that blind from 1200 range

l2p issue here

I mained Ranger for about 8 months (November 11th of 2012 was when I started) before switching to thief. I still play Ranger every now and then, but Thief is my go-to right now for everything, because unlike Ranger, I can actively support with Shadow Protector, Thrill of the Crime, Bountiful Theft, and Signet of Agility, compared to Ranger’s Healing Spring. I LIKE playing group support, something I can’t do right now with Ranger.

And clearing the blind again means nothing if they can still spam stealth so easily without any downsides to it. And no, wasted initiative is not a downside if you can still gain it while in stealth. Stealth is powerful, and getting access to that is fine, ONLY IF THERE’S A DOWNSIDE/COUNTER TO IT.

For example, Cloak and Dagger is fine because it requires the thief getting into close range to use it, so they can hit all manner of AoE on the way to do it, so it’s easily countered.

Hide in Shadows is fine because you used a heal for it and it has a 30 second cooldown.

Blinding Powder is fine because it’s on a 40 second cooldown (32s traited).

Shadow Refuge is fine because it’s a visible AoE you have to stand in the entire duration to keep the stealth, so it’s easily countered with AoEs and cleaving attacks because you KNOW the thief is in that circle.

Smokescreen -> Heartseeker is fine because that Smokescreen is on a 30s cooldown (24s traited).

Black Powder -> Heartseeker combo however is NOT fine because there’s no counter to it and it has almost no cooldown. Within 1 second of that field going down the Thief has Heartseeker’d through it and into stealth. That’s too fast to remove blind and counter him, that’s too fast for AoE to go down, that’s too fast for any kind of counter. Either we change the field from Smoke to Dark to get rid of this (which destroys the D/P burst while buffing P/P’s sustain), or we make it so the blind field goes on the enemy location so you have to get close to do it. Because right now BP->HS is No Risk, High Reward.

I kill D/P thieves all the time.

Not that hard to manage BP mate…..it’s a l2p issue

Ryu you play a ranger….you can clear that blind from 1200 range

l2p issue here

Carighan.6758:

T raw.4658:

Ok so basically you either play passive AI condi builds or a semi active AI condi build.

Thank you for clearing this up and this completely explains your erroneous stance on this.

You realize I play a Mesmer, yes? The part where I need to spawn clones or phantasms to use my class ability is something you heard about, yes?

Just making sure, because I don’t want to simply file your reaction under strawman.

But under the assumption that one should never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by a lack of information (in this case):

• Mesmer has Satter (sic, or word filter gets it) as their class mechanic. It takes the existent Illusions and destroys them for a specific effect.
• The four abilities are: Mind Wrack , Cry of Frustration , Diversion and Distortion .
• Each ability can only be used without Illusions active with a specific grandmaster trait from the illusion line, Illusionary Persona . However even with that, output is minimal without illusions to feed to the skills.

So as you can see, all Mesmer specs always heavily rely on AI-controlled temporary pets. Either to use them for output, for utility effects or simply for feeding them to another skill.

I have mesmer mate….feel like a zombie on that thing.

Carighan.6758:

T raw.4658:

Dev team balances for PvP no WvW. You don’t like it then take it up with them. Until then the “meta” that decides balance has nothing to do with power builds.

Also WvW “meta” is a Bunker “meta” as well….Hell the best roaming builds are condi bunker or hybrid.

What class you running btw where this condi requires some thought process

I run power shatter variants, if you got to know. Change more or less daily. Been running, um, since release:

• Blackwater (that was back when PU gave a boon every 3s, not every 1s, so before Natsu made the actual build, but 20/20/30 was a concept long before that :P ).
• Full power phantasm.
• Full raid bot with phantasms.
• Condi shatter.
• Full interrupt.

Might be 2-3 more in there, but then I didn’t run them for long.

I’m sorry, but the condi builds don’t cut it. And from the changes we see, I’m not sure I’d even agree ANet balances based on modes where condition damage can do something good. That’s partially because it never does anything good outside of hotjoin matches and low-skill WvW solo roaming. And looking at the changes they make, they seem to be aware that condition-effects need quite a bit of help. :P

Thinking back to it, I don’t think the ToL had much condi damage in the higher teams, either. At least I remember Mesmer being the usually double ranged shatter which is hardly a condi build.

It’s always a bit surprising to me when people complain about conditions in general because apart from when you set out into PvP (either mode), you don’t really see conditions any more. They’re just… gone. They’re there ofc because well, your attacks happen to apply them but focusing on them and stat-ing for them is pretty much the last thing you do. :P

Ok so basically you either play passive AI condi builds or a semi active AI condi build.

Thank you for clearing this up and this completely explains your erroneous stance on this.

Carighan.6758:

T raw.4658:

The top teams in PvP use the builds I described.

If you’re talking WvW then it’s a whole new ball game when numbers get to over 10 vs 10. Smaller scale tho hybrid/bunker trumps all

Yes well, how would it not when many skills scale with the number of recipients? Cleansing especially. The game is hardly meant to be played smallest-scale (which is why it makes so little sense that the dev team seems to focus so much effort into the sPvP-side of it). The whole combat system works on multiplying power in teams left and right and centre with whole-group beneficial effects, combo fields, area effects on many otherwise single-target-used attacks (cleaving melee is an example), piercing line attacks, etc.

I’m sorry, but while I enjoy PvP every so often, I can’t figure out how it even ended up ingame. It seems to go against a lot of design elements of the underlying combat and clkittenouts.

Wow nice use of that flag button

Dev team balances for PvP no WvW. You don’t like it then take it up with them. Until then the “meta” that decides balance has nothing to do with power builds.

Also WvW “meta” is a Bunker “meta” as well….Hell the best roaming builds are condi bunker or hybrid.

What class you running btw where this condi requires some thought process

The meta is bunker/hybrid abusing might stacking

That is not a power meta.

You fight these builds and more often than not the majority of their pressure is conditions

Good to see they fixed this bug

I enjoyed reading this thread

It’s ok OP they nerfed thieves

Thieves lost 15chars

DB always has and always will be filled with players of the tank mentality

Mags death is due to Anets refusal to address WvW

Dondagora.9645:

How about we start small? pausing initiative regen clock for 1-2 seconds?

Fine as is

l2p

Did I just read someone claim D/P is more faceroll than P/D?!?!!!??

ROFLMAO

Someone is trying to feel better about themselves

RyuDragnier.9476:

DrOrange.9230:

Guys listen, the real reason for this thread is op is scared theif wont be the best pvp class, anymore. It’s ok bro, rangers welcome you in the low tier of balance

Dude, I’m a Ranger…

Been waiting for that.

Just throw a scepter in your MH and laugh at the teef corpses that pile up….

Mesmers need nothing vs teefs and is simply a l2p issue

Only one to blame is ArenaNet

Ditch the init cost to swap. Thieves have no reason to swap weapons besides to surprise their target.

S/D > P/D after stealthing can disorient someone enough for the kill.

I actually like this a lot.

It fits with the class and opens up so many new combos that require active play.

Could it be OP? Maybe but all thief skills are already watered down it would matter.

p/p OH would viable as a mutha kittener if this went live

Tao.5096:

Mayama.1854:

Ok sorry for that and I guess I overreacted a bit. So back on topic. They dont get what the thief needs, well no sorry they dont see what ANY class needs. Its really frustraiting to see such a nice system go down the gutter. I dont say that lightharded because I usually stay calm and watch what happens. Imo the thief needs, first and foremost, a bit of his play style removed, remove some of the stealth and dodge spam but make him a bit more out in the open fighterish (is that even a word?). That would make him alot easier to balance and if a thief could actually take a bit of beating traps and stuff might be actually worth taking (after fixing them too of course). I guess I watch the necro class changes cause its the last class I play that wasnt in a preview already and if they kitten him up too I just take a loooooooooooooong brake. I mean what does A-net care I never bought a single gem anyway.

I personally see no point in overreacting about upcoming changes since we do not see them present and cannot test it.
I do understand that logically what they have mentioned may look like it’s going to be such a big deal but in the end it may just end up as a slight change that won’t change much. It wasn’t the first time it happens like that. Anet announced some srs bsns changes while it looked like some classes looked like free kills in 1v1 – but they’re not free kills.

In the end I believe it’ll make thieves to use their heads a bit instead of a simple spam this and that with closed eyes – cause it works!

:P

I agree with you and we should continue with the despamming trend. Now let’s have a 10 sec CD on kit swaps with a 50% decrease in turrets

Wait what

Did some just call the 5 6 0 0 3 full signet OP?

Deli.1302:

Doomdesire.9365:

Because people got bored. Not because a lack of players, or one guild stacking great players, or cause there wasn’t enough pugs to fight, OR because ppt(lol ppt).

People just got sick of the repetitive WvW. Anet does nothing to fix the game mode, instead introduces new RNG skins and stupid WvW tournies that nobody likes except(you guessed it!) pve players that want new skins.

People then look at new games like Archeage and Wildstar, that look refreshing and hopeful, and from there it’s GG for GW2. Blame Anet for the lack of content.

This doesn’t make sense at all. From what I’ve heard the only guilds that are dying are the gvg guilds. The ones that play wvw as intended while getting their dose of good fights in the process are all alive and well.

PvP is supposed to be repetitive. What changes is the experience each time you log in and play it. Don’t blame the system when the guilds were the ones that decided to reject all forms of wvw and made it stale for themselves by doing literally the exact same thing everyday.

You do know that WvW population is in the kittenter right now?

A year ago WvW was booming with T5 servers getting queues in prime time. Now T2 does even do that….

You did get something

A nerf bat and a new kittenty cleave kill yourself on all those clones

Reverence.6915:

Lurock Turoth.9085:

I still think Anet needs to take the six lowest ranked servers out of rotation and force all those players to pick a new server. Six servers worth of players (even if they are low pop) transferring into tiers 6-2 should go along way towards closing the tier gaps.

No it won’t.

I recently bought a second account to tour the lower tiers with. From what I’ve seen in the ET/Ebay/FC matchup, all 3 servers have a decent sized population but absolutely 0 organisation. 90% of the time there’s no commander on any map (on ET). Zergs are spread out and it’s really easy to pick people off. People play the siege game harder than in T1. Fights are sparse and boring. Contrary to what has been said before on these boards, the average skill level is a lot lower than in the upper tiers (will readjust this statement as I move from server to server if needed, but what I’ve seen so far is disappointing).

The main issue though? The majority of these players on NA T8 servers are NA players. NA players don’t make coverage. People from other places in the world do. The servers with “off hours coverage” will still dominate those who don’t. The tier gaps will still be there, even more prevalent than before as the majority of NA players will continue to play NA prime only while peeps from the other side of the world can wrack up the PPT for their server with little to no fights or resistance (this is of course, talking about lower tiers).

What’s your other account name because I’m sure we never ran into each other

As for skill….T2 was the epitome of skill. T1 was full of free bags tbh

And anet rejoices on a job well done…..

Archaon.9524:

Zardul.3952:

deathmatch 10v10
everyone gets 2 lifes.

res ability like warbanner only effect 1 person. not 5.

kill each other until the team left standing wins.

10 celestial wars with banner gg

deathmatch with downed state will never work, let alone is not even close to what gvg is supposed to be… (GvG is not dat noskill zerg vs zerg pve heroes used to do in wvsw, that’s just an insult to pvp and even more to gw1’s gvg)

You know prolly 95% of GvG players have done tPvP at one point in time. They still choose the unsupported no skill zerg game mode over it….why?

Why does this unsupported no skill zerg game mode command more audience/interest than sPvP?

Why is it to spark any semblance of interest in their precious sPvP do the dev’s bribe players with reward tracks?

Answer these questions while actually trying a GvG.

Why do ppl think you need monks for GvG?

Water fields, ice fields, light fields, and current healing skills are more than adequate for GvG

I’m looking forward to these changes on my warrior.

Burst skills are fine right now and the new and improved GS one will be OP as heck.

Because the dev team is too stubborn to see what’s in front of them.

Very sad since the control/gameplay is sooo kitten good

Ristillath.6745:

T raw.4658:

Ristillath.6745:

You really believe people want to see the current GvG where 20 ppl just running into each other and everwhere something explodes and you cant see sh*t?
GvG matches have like 300 viewers which tpvp tourney has less than that. Even the tpvp tourneys that aren’t that popular have more than the double of that.

I believe the Agg vs TA match had 2.5k viewers with all 3 servers queueing obsidian sanctum…so you were right in a sense because 300 ppl were in attendance

Yeah you are right it’s the best to watch the current GvG and you can see everthing that happens when the 40 guys run into each other.
The only thing the matches get so many viewers is because a bunch of ppl are zerging around and like to see the teams that they get kitten from on the battlefield.
You can’t say it’s fun to watch it.
When it’s fun it’s only fun because you have a favour for one of the teams that are facing each other.
I watched a lot of GvG and even played some back in when RG was still there. It only was fun to watch because i kinda liked RG and hoped they win the matches and oc later on because of Sacrx’s commentaries.
But it wasn’t fun to watch because of the gameplay.

I have zero problem following a GvG of any size and watch them all the time

And I don’t have a favorite team

But let’s give engies a 6 sec 1200 range insta reveal…..

JonathanSharp.7094:

We’ve been researching/developing other stuff for a while now (which I’ve stated in other posts, the SOTG, etc.). We just don’t talk about things until they’re ready.

I feel that just being transparent will help you guys to calm down a bit.

So:

We wanted to have a solid set of conquest maps our first half a year after ship, so we did that. We have tweaks to do for conquest maps, but overall we like a lot of them (and some of them we’re still not 100% happy with – so they may never make it into the tournament rotation).

But, as we’ve said, the other game types commonly tossed around actually have some MAJOR issues that need to be fixed for MMO-style combat (which is what Jon is speaking about). Those are the places we’re pushing now – trying to find ways to take those game-types and get them to be FUN and FUNCTIONAL in GW2’s combat system.

We’ll keep you posted as more happens.

Also yolo.

The player base has already given you the answer.

In fact it’s be right in front of your face for a year and a half now.

Normally this is where I would encourage you to make the right decision, but it’s too late now

Ristillath.6745:

You really believe people want to see the current GvG where 20 ppl just running into each other and everwhere something explodes and you cant see sh*t?
GvG matches have like 300 viewers which tpvp tourney has less than that. Even the tpvp tourneys that aren’t that popular have more than the double of that.

I believe the Agg vs TA match had 2.5k viewers with all 3 servers queueing obsidian sanctum…so you were right in a sense because 300 ppl were in attendance

Where’s the who cares option

GvG matches get more twitch viewers than tPvP tourney

The majority has already voted just anet being stubborn at this point

Too bad pvp is only conquest

No trust me i know how viable it is

Just more viable as a 2nd set imho

Complimenting s/d etc

That’s before ferocity nerf

It works best as a second option not main

That said the condi dump combo stealth 1 3 f1 3 will still provide quite a bit of burst since 3 hits for a boat load of damage on crits

silentnight warrior.2714:

BrunoBRS.5178:

honest to goodness, roll a thief and try playing it without using the mobility skills.

tell me how long you last.

I have a thief and i use and abuse those skills. Thats why i know that are too much.
And i dont want to take that away from them. I want more reward to who is able to dodge instacast gap closers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/silentnight-warrior-2714/showposts

I don’t see much evidence of teef’n

EvilSardine.9635:

Bwahahaha. Thief tears.

Every thief that runs offhand pistol is usually bad and just relies on the blinding powder crutch.

I main a thief and any terrible thief can win most duels by literally only pressing 5>2>1. It was sad and I’m glad it’s been nerfed a bit. I hope it gets nerfed further, actually.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/EvilSardine-9635/showposts

You’re playing a warrior mate and from the looks of it rather poorly.

Ima go ahead and say there are certain warrior builds that OH pistol thieves cannot touch.

This user is a classic example of someone who refuses to move their avatar 1 cm

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Skenderbeu.9102:

This has probably been asked 100 times, but why no GvG yet ANet?

I even heard at some point that an ANet employee found 2 guilds doing GvG in the Obsidian Sanctum and told them to stop.

What’s up? It’s called GW for a reason no? :s I am very sad

Haven’t you noticed that WvW is super GvG?
WvW is a GvG on a much larger and grander scale than GW1 GvG ever was
In fact, GW1 GvG wasn’t really very GvG at all, it was simply an 8v8 lord kill match
~ Which we’ve already had on GW2 since day 1 release

10 v 10

That’s what most of the well known GvG teams in NA started with. 15 became the norm after that.

personally I believe 10 v 10 is prolly the best number for this game due to gameplay mechanics