(edited by T raw.4658)
One could legitimately make the argument that trickery is training wheels.
The pros don’t wanna hear that but trickery >>> SA
Stagnation is killing WvW
Everyone knows where to drop siege, offensive and defensive.
Everyone knows who’s going to win the matches, with few exceptions.
Everyone knows population and coverage beat skill.
WvW builds for each profession are mostly stagnant.
That’s how bloodlust started it because it killed one of the main methods players came up w/ to combat stagnation.
Add in seasons that promoted server stacking that killed entire communities
Add in repeatedly messed up patches/changes that discourage WvW as PvP
You get the idea, but it all started w/ Bloodlust
The game honestly needs a WvW over haul patch because WvW >>>> sPvP
There’s no contest in what the majority of players choose. The only reason people PvP now is either
1. Reward Tracks
2. Self delusions of grandeur in thinking a kittenty conquest mode equates to skill
Orbaggedon IMHO started the whole process of what we are seeing today.
I feel the summer of 2013 was perhaps the best times in WvW. Then anet released blood last and it began. Season 1 just killed servers tbh.
You could argue that the complete lack of developer attention started it but even with that all aspects of WvW thrived until blood lust.
Post your thoughts and definitely speak up if your home server became a victim
hmmmmmmm nope,thief is not hard counter to mesmer(as a player who have 2k hours on each one).Mesmer actually is a hard counter to thief.
K, wanna 1vs1 me? I gonna use sword only on thief.
What happens when you lose?
I like how thieves say they are d/p s/d s/p etc but spend the majority of their time in sb.
Sorry fellas you are short bow thieves.
Mesmers losing to thieves need to rework their build
D/P 6 in SA isn’t even the meta in WvW anymore.
This is a new one i must say….
I want to thank Sin Potato and Mahariel
This thread has not only become pseudo informative but entertaining as well.
The thief evade builds are pretty lame. Not the worst mind you but it doesn’t require skill.
Basically you are fighting yourself to keep up the highest amount of invuln time. Then disengaging when low on init.
People like to praise certain players but 90% of people do not know what TRULY requiresskill on a thief
So uhh what’s the counter??
mesmer
Are you being serious…..
Mesmer,Thief glass combo is what they said they’re afraid of. Basically TCG’s comp combined with well coordinated players.
omg you were being serious
LOL
TCG would beat apex. so uh. yeah.
didn’t know they’ve played eachother
Killing someone playing cheesey specs always earns a special statement.
Spoken like someone not playing to win.
Spoken like someone who feels PvP is a kittenty gametype which caters to unskilled play….specially this meta
So uhh what’s the counter??
mesmer
Are you being serious…..
Mesmer,Thief glass combo is what they said they’re afraid of. Basically TCG’s comp combined with well coordinated players.
omg you were being serious
LOL
Or run fire and air for the lawlz
Killing someone playing cheesey specs always earns a special statement.
So uhh what’s the counter??
mesmer
Are you being serious…..
So uhh what’s the counter??
Can we get insight to what changes you are making as a team to completely neuter this meta you guys created???
I understand everyone makes mistakes and misjudges things so I can’t wait to tune in to the show
:)
What is horrible about this thread is the simple fact all these changes would destroy a GW2 class
The only thief that is over the top right now is the condi thief
Yes reveal on block
Let’s make guardian’s even more of a thief hard counter…
Thieves are fine as is and if you are having problems it’s an user error issue
S/D P/D or S/D SB in zerker gear put out plenty of damage. Paired with the access to daze and immob it is quite potent.
The situation goes like this: An enemy is out of position, you or your periph leader calls target. You Sword 2 to target (immob), Dagger 5 (stealth), Tactical Strike (daze,), auto attack chain, waiting to steal (daze, blablaTrickery, mug damage/heal) any critical cast. Your 1, 2, or 3 periphery teammates also converge on your dazed, immobilized target, making quick work.
If the target somehow escapes (using their stunbreaks), swap pistol, immob/vuln shot, cast basilisk, auto attack freeze, cast immob shot, steal+cnd unload, dagger 3 blink/torment, and find next target.
I am in [EP] GvG/Raiding and [Grim] Roaming.
I think s/d+d/d would be a good set for that kind of playstyle.
s/d for the immo/daze/aa chain cripple then CnD swap weps to get the nice BS off.
No cleave
No poison on downed
The problem with S/D like this fella described it is it’s too slow, and allows for an easy escape.
Quick Stun or Quick Immob and then bam downed
It largely depends on your periphery group make up. This works in the one I run with.
Your mileage may vary.
Just seems like you’re dead weight with a sword build. Yes you can immob but other classes are going to be able to do it and do better damage than you.
Unless you’re only focus is to deter the other teams gank group……but it’s such a waste it seems
What guild you in btw?
Sword in a GvG just seems like it wouldn’t be all that great. Yeah working with 4 other guys it helps but immob is better on other classes it seems. Also you don’t have a true burst with sword. That 6 – 10k back stab just seems too valuable tbh
As for pistol main hand….uhh no. The power damage is too low to properly spike
What runes do you use Brando?
Rule of thumb a thief once told me
Go as glassy as you can handle. If you need 3k armor go with it
The above post could not be more wrong.
The best GvG guilds all run thieves…and none in remotely in the way you describe.
GvG thieves are generally of a different breed since they just don’t wade through points being spammed on by 2-5 players.
Are there any posters here who even GvG on a thief??
Great post here and I’m interested what replies are garnered.
Tho I have a sinking suspicion that we have a majority of sPvP heroes and WVW roamers
Forgot to add that most GvG builds are kept locked up like fort knox. The builds are literally the most complex builds in this game due to the nature of game type/rule set
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No it needs to be reverted back to 3s
It’s the middle of 2014 why are people still complaining about thieves??
The class is far from OP and they hardly warrant the amount of QQ generated.
This post should be in that 75 page long thief qq thread btw
Why would you care that scrim results become public??
The fact that 55 posted being upset aboot it is hilarious
Honestly they need to revert the CnD and Mug Nerfs.
The word to describe what can’t be unwatched
Boring
The ONLY reason ToL wasn’t swimming in Condi builds is because of 1 rune
Strength Runes
In fact the NA final was a complete snooze where 2 teams full of bunkers dukes it out.
Heck I’d even argue that the patch was still too fresh to have it included for this tournament. 2 warrior teams…..
snip
We’ll just leave it at this since everyone pretty knows what happened. If you want to come back and edit your post or post something that has relevance feel free to rejoin the discussion.
thanks
The ONLY reason ToL wasn’t swimming in Condi builds is because of 1 rune
Strength Runes
In fact the NA final was a complete snooze where 2 teams full of bunkers dukes it out.
Heck I’d even argue that the patch was still too fresh to have it included for this tournament. 2 warrior teams…..
There is no explanation needed tbh
I have this problem as well it seems.
I’m stuck at 0/0 DL speed and it won’t load past the screen
Had to edit that for you to bring it more inline with what’s really happening in the game and what this thread is about.
Lot’s of players prefer less faceroll gameplay of AoE condi spam or just flat out condi spam.
Let’s put skill back in the game mmkay?
Yes, kitten condition spam, more power-spam!
Or did you really think power-damage was this epitome of skill? Because its really not. Its even more spammy then conditions.
Ok what takes more skill
Condi Engi or Power?
Condi Necro or Power?
Condi Thief or Power?
Condi Ranger or Power?
Condi Warrior or Power?The only classes Condi isn’t always the easiest is Ele and Guard, but we haven’t seen any viable builds hit the public yet tho
What is your definition of skill in GW2? That is what has to be determined first.
By the looks of it you would say skill is killing people with direct damage instead of conditions and for you that’s all that’s all you need to determine skill.
Really you would need ranking system, skilled opponents, tournaments results. Not “I Feelz” so it is determined by my own experience that this is skill. Need game mode specifics definitely not Doolz. So conquest where most top players play Power. So the game is balanced then right? K
It also looks like you assume people play conditions have never touched a power build on this game.
Again you go off on a tangent needlessly.
It’s simple
1. Condi is easier to play
2. Condi requires less skill to be successful
Had to edit that for you to bring it more inline with what’s really happening in the game and what this thread is about.
Lot’s of players prefer less faceroll gameplay of AoE condi spam or just flat out condi spam.
Let’s put skill back in the game mmkay?
Yes, kitten condition spam, more power-spam!
Or did you really think power-damage was this epitome of skill? Because its really not. Its even more spammy then conditions.
Ok what takes more skill
Condi Engi or Power?
Condi Necro or Power?
Condi Thief or Power?
Condi Ranger or Power?
Condi Warrior or Power?
The only classes Condi isn’t always the easiest is Ele and Guard, but we haven’t seen any viable builds hit the public yet tho
I’m actually fine w/ the way Condi’s are in ZvZ fights tbh.
If a group of players are coordinating their cleanses to deal w/ condi bombs than guess what
They aren’t a zerg….they’re a guild group.
Zergs melt under condi pressure due to zero to very little organization. You could make the argument that power is horrible in ZvZ due to the shear amount of AoE healing.
It’s getting old reading people defend/justify the skilless gameplay that is condi in this game
The ferocity change was *un*necessary; Condi builds were really out of control (they still are). Now crit damage scales with level, just as every other stat in the game except condi damage/duration. As it stands, at 80, 15 ferocity = 1% crit damage. As for precision, it’s algorithmically determined to avoid escalation. All of this information is readily available on the wiki; if you can come here and complain that you don’t know how something works, you can just as easily go there and educate yourself. Personally, condi damage needs A balance pass to be put on the same skill requirement as power. This whole post was a terrible defense of condi builds.
The only thing here I can agree with is the town clothes change. But there’s already a thread for that.
Had to edit that for you to bring it more inline with what’s really happening in the game and what this thread is about.
Lot’s of players prefer less faceroll gameplay of AoE condi spam or just flat out condi spam.
Let’s put skill back in the game mmkay?
The TDM map just isn’t big enough for any decent amount of numbers
They need to make it bigger
P/P isn’t a primary weapon set. Stop thinking of it that way.
Instead imagine using unload ranged burst potential to combat classes that are trying to kite you.
I’ve seen thieves open up with melee burst and finish em with the pistol stealth shot into unload.
Buffing vital shot is NOT an option due to P/D
Also unload hits for a truck load for being a ranged attack
The strongest dueling build for a thief right now is that cheesy 10 0 30 0 30 s/d build
Set your armor for good damage toughness etc
You use fury to get the needed crit chance as well
Rofl, the build isn’t cheese. It’s not even good when average players use it, it’s obvious you can’t beat it so you call it cheese. I’ve ran it for about a year now and I can say a lot of people are awful with it and very few are good. Also this build isn’t nearly as good w/o lyssa so please QQ more.
It looks like I found one
lol
you get the best of both worlds with that spec and it FAR out performs D/P due to D/P inherent weakness
now if you’re sitting here saying that the standard d/p roaming build is better than 10 0 30 0 30 than Ima just sit here and laugh
You just don’t understand mate…..
D/P and P/D thieves eat S/D thieves on breakfast.
just sain
Nope
The strongest dueling build for a thief right now is that cheesy 10 0 30 0 30 s/d build
Set your armor for good damage toughness etc
You use fury to get the needed crit chance as well
Actually depending on the skill and the moment it is interrupted, sometimes the thief loses no initiative. Pistol whip is a good example.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Jd9u345w8 for further explanation.
Change it then
Conditions are over the top atm
that sux cause active play > passive play