Guild Wars 2

Question is who are the good thieves??

Sound em off

Narcarsis.5739:

Kolly.9872:

No, good thieves never spam 3, bad thieves will keep spamming 3

So what’s the issue? If you don’t spam your Flanking then you can ensure that you will hit it. You also have an immobilize on sword 2 to set up Flanking Strike. The nerf affects bad thieves and punishes spamming.

Overall the changes to thief affect the lower end (skill floor) and barrier of entry to the class, and do nothing to good players. If you don’t spam 3 then you can be patient enough to use it when you know it will hit and set it up yourself. You have more than enough options to do so and the people who are whining are players that refuse to improve their gameplay because they want everything handed to them.

Same goes for the Black Powder change.

Sorry normally I’d agree with raising skill floor but they aren’t doing it across the board.

As it stands right now D/P in ANY form isn’t OP. Nerf it w/out proper compensation while buffing the other classes isn’t acceptable

nyqwist.2360:

Black powder have for far too long been overpowered. It’s been a cheap way to trade autoattacks, disrupt, and put space between melee wielding enemies.

For people saying that it did not matter because the enemy should not be walking inside a little circle that blinds, and hence reducing the pulses promotes less skilldependant gameplay; You are wrong.

Basicly since any half-decent player would not ever do that. Which only made the skill result in stale and boring gameplay, of course not in terms of the projectile itself and the skills combo attainabilites.

If you thought that was what differentiated the opponents and your skill, there’s something wrong with the optimization of your profession, build and gameplay.

This is a completely justified nerf, absolutely nothing to complain about other than the initative cost was not increased.

3/10 troll

Last sentence ruined it mate

Problem is the one time we saw a developer driving a thief it was as a p/p rally bot.

They are so far disconnected with the class it’s not even funny.

Zord.6130:

moi.4398:

With Steb’s logic , PERSONAL skill is juged in TEAM fight lol . Nice one

It’s totally true.
Being a good dueler does not mean that you are a good player, too. Unless we consider only dueling of course.
Conquest mode has a lot of things that one player has to take into account, be it rotations, communication, decision making and fighting ability.
The only thing that is measured in a 1v1 is the fighting ability(against ONE opponent). Other things are way more important than fighting ability.
As a thief, you can always best an enemy thief in a set up 1v1, but if he outsmarts you and manages to get the jump on you during a Conquest game, he will be more useful to the team than you.

Take Sizer: he is not the BEST dueler, but he is definitely the best thief player around.
Not saying that 1v1 are meaningless – a good player will be good at dueling, but it’s not everything, and it’s only a fraction of the “personal skill” in a Conquest game.

Wait what??

This statement is an oxymoron

DeceiverX.8361:

Warrior didn’t really get buffs. Warriors will now have to actually use their F1 and manage their class mechanic properly to deal damage and the builds running 6/x/x/x/6 for 15% damage/crit chance are nullified, making their stats inherently lower, plus the adrenaline drain on OOC really hurts their uptime a lot more, and adrenaline consumption on skill use prevents the silly OOC blasting effects/mobility. Not to mention as the person above me stated, CI won’t trigger.

The BP change? THANK YOU. Seriously, anyone playing dagger mainhand against one of these just finally got some counterplay. The skill ceiling also increases and people might actually have to time their casts on BP for an interruption blind rather than just dropping it and sitting and kiting inside of it while their init regens.

S/D didn’t so much get nerfed as it did tweaked to better fit the initial vision of what S/D was supposed to be. FS with a de-target can now let skilled thieves have permanent uninterrupted dodges as they did with the old version, while cutting the initiative costs for evasion thieves. Spamming 3 will now be an effective tactic, but not one that will simply kill your foe with high damage coefficients and take their boons. Actually, I even prefer this, as I used to run an evasion S/D thief and dropped it because of the split on FS’s evade and being unable to double evade with it which forced me into a hole in that I had to play S/D a certain way.

And are people really complaining about power ranger getting buffed? I mean come on people, the class is absolute crap as it stands, and has seen no major buffs, changes, or glory since the game’s release. Engi might have been over-buffed in some departments, but what was buffed doesn’t really synergize with the current meta, so we’ll just have to wait and see.

Guard probably won’t get anything, and I have a feeling ele will probably face some nerfs in some of the more blatantly overpowered aspects of the class since the changes this past spring.

Wow another thief happy about his class getting nerfed because he chooses to play D/D.

News flash you have plenty of counter play available now.

How about you get a couple of fights in using scorpion wire then come back….

TheThiefMaster.3812:

The Op is as clueless as it gets tbh and he obviously started this thread to flame people since he was on Amon’s thread earlier spilling the same stuff.

You’ve been told this but ill repeat , the reason people aren’t happy about the changes isn’t because they are going to make our class unplayable its more about how unwarranted and unnecessary the changes were …..however for some reasons that seems to be too difficult for you to grasp.

You’re also missing the point.

Every class discussed so far has received buffs. Even warrios are in the green so to speak after that discussion. Rangers/Engies for sure got bufffed too much.

Thieves got nothing but nerfs. (Sorry kitten about 1050 range pistols…..uhh the only way you are reaching that range is if someone is standing behind the dood you are shooting at 900 range)

So currently thieves are in decent place. Neither OP or grossly UP. With these nerfs and subsequent buffs to other classes tho……..

You get the picture…..hell these nerfs alone with zero changes to the other classes would put this class in a kittenty place

cheese.4739:

T raw.4658:

Dirame.8521:

T raw.4658:

Poplolita.2638:

Probably because of it easily counters downed state #2?

It’s been like this for 2 years

No reason to nerf it now tbh

That’s like saying; because you’ve not been able to walk for 2yrs there’s no reason to repair your spinal cord now.

No its more like saying because you keep bowling gutter balls now we’ll put up bumpers and give you a trophy

So are you that bad a Thief that everything else already kills you?

No I’m saying you are bad for standing inside a 100 unit circle blinding field dying to a thief

Keep up.

Dirame.8521:

T raw.4658:

Poplolita.2638:

Probably because of it easily counters downed state #2?

It’s been like this for 2 years

No reason to nerf it now tbh

That’s like saying; because you’ve not been able to walk for 2yrs there’s no reason to repair your spinal cord now.

No its more like saying because you keep bowling gutter balls now we’ll put up bumpers and give you a trophy

Poplolita.2638:

Probably because of it easily counters downed state #2?

It’s been like this for 2 years

No reason to nerf it now tbh

Y
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Have a nice day

alchemyst.2165:

This is my last post, Im trying not to get involved but I just had to respond to this.
Black Powder is still fine, its just slightly less effective. It’s just not as rewarding to sit in a blind field and do nothing any more. YOu have to use other skills and carry your own weight more.

Although Im not against P/P getting a slight defense buff for compensation.

Kay. Im done here now.

Ah you’re from that Abyss guild on SBI.

I watched a bunch of you get wrecked by a power ranger from Mag

Thank you for your opinion but we really should disregard it.

Engi was already the anti thief…..

She’s mad

She also isn’t realizing the rest of the patch stinks too. D/P trick got put to rest as well.

Dirame.8521:

Dante.3754:

Oh one more thing, whats the point of LS being unblockable if FS has to hit first?

Removing boons including and not limited to Aegis.

If Aegis is up and you use Flanking Strike it won’t hit thus Lar won’t be able to be used.

So you’re now out 4 init instead of 3 w/out being able to use the good part of the skill

Dante.3754:

Oh one more thing, whats the point of LS being unblockable if FS has to hit first?

Hit nail on head

Dirame.8521:

T raw.4658:

Wow nothing but nerfs on a class that didn’t need it.

PVE thieves are getting kittened bad

S/D thieves just got kitten d bad too

The worst of all was how bad D/P trickery thieves just got hit.

Wow I’m shocked at how off they are

So Dagger 1, Ricotchet, and Invigorating Precision aren’t buffs?

Worthless buffs and a complete waste of everyone’s time.

In fact if I proposed something on that level at my job I’d be fired on the spot.

alchemyst.2165:

Are you kidding? These changes were freakin’ awesome. I understand where they’re going with flanking strike, it gives more reward for actually hitting your target and more counterplay. Black Powder nerf was fine… Though it might hurt s/p. Dagger Cleave was awesome, Invigorating precision was awesome, P/P got buffed. I think they were going in the right direction. If you’re crying because you think your precious S/D is going to be completely broken or you won’t be able to D/P spam stealth any more then theres something wrong with you.

Sorry, I got a little ranty

You really don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

Let the changes sink in regards to fighting the OTHER classes in this game.

Uhh you do realize that you now won’t be able to use lar strike now on blocking opponents?

Or use flanking to clear the blind for it???

D/P trickery just got kitten d in the kitten with BP changes

Also you all are forgetting you all still might be seeing more 6 sec reveal skills.

Good luck with the p/p builds

Wow nothing but nerfs on a class that didn’t need it.

PVE thieves are getting kittened bad

S/D thieves just got kitten d bad too

The worst of all was how bad D/P trickery thieves just got hit.

Wow I’m shocked at how off they are

Missed what was changed?

RyuDragnier.9476:

T raw.4658:

Why are thieves wanting to nerf their own class!??!

A x 6 6 x x D/P thief is not a problem in the least.

In fact one could reliably make the statement that the strongest trait line for a thief is the trickery line.

As for the d/d thieves complaining about d/p thieves….learn to use your 3 and 4 keys. Also try slotting scorpion wire for a fight or two

A high crit, high defense stealth setup isn’t a problem with a D/P thief? Do you expect D/P thieves to NOT backstab or stealth spam?

no its not a problem

it’s the most predictable weapon set a thief has

when they use BP either dodge then interrupt or clear then interrupt

it’s not rocket science ppl

It’s easy

10 v 10 gvg in sPvP

Allow exotic armor combos so the teams can retain the high build customization they currently enjoy.

Profit

Why are thieves wanting to nerf their own class!??!

A x 6 6 x x D/P thief is not a problem in the least.

In fact one could reliably make the statement that the strongest trait line for a thief is the trickery line.

As for the d/d thieves complaining about d/p thieves….learn to use your 3 and 4 keys. Also try slotting scorpion wire for a fight or two

Reveal needs to be 3 sec in pvp

CnD nerf needs to be reverted

Mug nerf reverted

Keep SB nerfs but nerf the other classes AoE spam garbage

Drop it down to 15 v 15

20 is a EU thing and considering the EU scene is 6 months behind the NA you should stick with the NA standard

Great idea though

lordkrall.7241:

T raw.4658:

I think necro posting is a wonderful way to remind the team of forgotten promises to its consumers.

It’s a very easy way and non aggressive way to re bring up the topic since they in turn can not deny it. Also it highlights how bad the ignoring of WvW is.

I’m truly sorry because i can relate to dealing with negativity from your consumers….but we are the consumers. We are always right.

It is also a great way to stop the team from ever saying anything, since people take everything as a promise.

Well then if that’s true it’s time for them all to find new jobs

How to get your T1 guild into open field fights:

Step 1. Realize siege is cancer

Step 2. Transfer to T2

I think necro posting is a wonderful way to remind the team of forgotten promises to its consumers.

It’s a very easy way and non aggressive way to re bring up the topic since they in turn can not deny it. Also it highlights how bad the ignoring of WvW is.

I’m truly sorry because i can relate to dealing with negativity from your consumers….but we are the consumers. We are always right.

Ranger in a gank squad can work in a GvG

Problem is avoiding the train and the opposing teams gank. You will be targeted 1st and you will be dropped fast.

Keeping a single person off you as a ranger isn’t a problem but the amount that focus in agGvG is

All the thief supporters have been perma banned

A thief complaining about blind spam when fighting another thief needs to get slapped with a l2p revelation

Hint

Press 3 a lot

xbutcherx.3861:

alchemyst.2165:

xbutcherx.3861:

Atoss.1056:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD_sQ5SAJGw

Seems legit.

He just posted all the hits to uplevels LOL, this is getting funnier by the hour.

Actually lots of them were on level 80’s…

Sorry if you hit someone for 15k-20k there is no way those players are 80 wearing exotics not even rares. Please be more real and don’t post these videos showing absolutely nothing but a bunch low levels wearing basic or fine armor.
and, please everyone playing WvW is level 80.

Uplevels have a green arrow next to their name

Sir Vincent III.1286:

When I look for a damage, I’m not just looking at how much damage a weapon set can do at any given time, but how much damage it can do over time. Dagger main may have the highest burst but it is hindered by the Revealed timer. If stealth is not hindered, backstab will definitely be the best damage overall and Dagger main is the best single target weapon. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

In a tank-and-spank scenario, when the target stays in one spot, I would have to agree that Dagger main has the best single target DPS. However, a moving target effectively decreasing Dagger’s dps since the Thief is now required to get closer to land a CnD and to land a backstab. Not to mention that it cost 6 initiatives without traiting for Infusion.

S/D on the other hand has a built in gap closer to its dual-wield skill (skill #3) that makes it even better than the Dagger’s backstab in any situation. Flanking strike/Larcenous strike are also not hindered by a cooldown (revealed) and can be used in a rapid successions — upto 3 times if initiative is at 15 max. Also an added bonus to increase its damage by stealing buffs like all of the target’s might stacks. Thus consistently dealing the best single target DPS.

Best Single Target DPS weapon is Dagger bar none.

We aren’t talking most effective weapon in a pvp setting…no we are talking pure numbers.

As it stands right sword can’t touch dagger in single target dps.

alchemyst.2165:

Atoss.1056:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD_sQ5SAJGw

Seems legit.

Them 20k eviscerates tho…

The worst part of that video is him being able to run in a melee train while retaining that type of damage.

No other class can really do that other than a warrior and needs to be fixed

Justine.6351:

I made a zerker lb/read the wind ranger for taking out thieves. “sic em” is VERY good as is. I get the occasional thief who trys dodge/evade spamming out the reveal time but rapid fire is good for tracking when used just as the reveal is ending. 6seconds is just abusive/ overkill.

This update (if all changes go through) will make me a monster not just to thieves, but to everyone. People under 3k armor/20k hp will drop before they can think “where is all this damage coming from?”

Oh and if im not mistaken “sic em” is 2000range not 1200, pairs nicely with longbow ;-)

That much damage that fast and at that range is POOR development decisions

D/D is the highest single target damage for thief period.

Just saw a post on Mag forums where some dood landed a 20K BS in WvW

Sagat.3285:

T raw.4658:

Helly.2597:

MarauderShields.6830:

That’s the problem with so many people here: they think “counterplay” means pressing one button. Everybody just wants the game dumbed down to “press I-win-button”. Look at all the rangers drooling over the huge channeled ranged burst. People want the game to be easy, whether defending or attacking. Positioning/mobility as a stealth counter? Too hard.
Imagine all the QQ when Rangers eat their own 20K burst with daggerstorm or traited warrior blocks. We will see these people here again, demanding “counterplay to dem block spams” because once agin, their brainless playstyile doesn’t work and they think it should.
With all the forced revealed being probably only the tip of the iceberg, I doubt GW2 will have any meaningful tactics or need for skill next year.

A six second reveal is not a “I-win-button.” Imagine if they said having the goggles on the utility bar lets the engi see players in stealth. A six second reveal has the potential to dramatically swing the fight in the engi’s favor, there isn’t any debate about that. However, you are assuming that you won’t be able to kite around for the six seconds, gain some distance, shadowstep away. Making a thief revealed doesn’t automatically kill the thief. As far as I can see, you’re the one complaining about counterplay and not being able to adapt from your own brainless playstyle.

You do realize that using goggles guarantees at best the blowing of stun breakers for the thief.

Now ask yourself what’s the CD on thief stun break utilities vs goggles

If he decide to use it he’s weaker to other classes it’s a trade off. It’s not great news for you but other classes yes all builds sacrifice something for another.

Then you realize that abilities can be swapped on the go.

Helly.2597:

T raw.4658:

You do realize that using goggles guarantees at best the blowing of stun breakers for the thief.

Now ask yourself what’s the CD on thief stun break utilities vs goggles

No I didn’t realize that. I didn’t realize thieves didn’t have access to the dodge mechanic. I stand corrected.

Then you realized the reveals are ranged insta cast abilities.

Rapid fire changes is a good boost in th DPS department and also goes against their vision of non burst oriented class.

Rangers have always been a great class and viable in all aspects of the game. These changes are not needed and should be taken off the table. Please anet stop listening to the least skilled most vocal players

Thanks

A concerned customer

Helly.2597:

MarauderShields.6830:

That’s the problem with so many people here: they think “counterplay” means pressing one button. Everybody just wants the game dumbed down to “press I-win-button”. Look at all the rangers drooling over the huge channeled ranged burst. People want the game to be easy, whether defending or attacking. Positioning/mobility as a stealth counter? Too hard.
Imagine all the QQ when Rangers eat their own 20K burst with daggerstorm or traited warrior blocks. We will see these people here again, demanding “counterplay to dem block spams” because once agin, their brainless playstyile doesn’t work and they think it should.
With all the forced revealed being probably only the tip of the iceberg, I doubt GW2 will have any meaningful tactics or need for skill next year.

A six second reveal is not a “I-win-button.” Imagine if they said having the goggles on the utility bar lets the engi see players in stealth. A six second reveal has the potential to dramatically swing the fight in the engi’s favor, there isn’t any debate about that. However, you are assuming that you won’t be able to kite around for the six seconds, gain some distance, shadowstep away. Making a thief revealed doesn’t automatically kill the thief. As far as I can see, you’re the one complaining about counterplay and not being able to adapt from your own brainless playstyle.

You do realize that using goggles guarantees at best the blowing of stun breakers for the thief.

Now ask yourself what’s the CD on thief stun break utilities vs goggles

I’m just wondering when rangers became so weak while being a VERY strong 1v1 class…

Dice Dragon.4326:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Helly.2597:

vincecontix.1264:

You better off not running a thief as part of serious havock squad. Just stack guard and wars and you good to go.

What? No serious havok squad is ever going to abandon mesmers or thieves. Thieves still have best pressure for enemy casters and other thieves. Just hyperbole on your part there. A simple 6 second reveal isn’t going to make thieves not viable. I understand this is a scary time for you with a nerf incoming, but the fear mongering isn’t going to help. Its an addition of something people have wanted since the game’s release, stealth counterplay.

Revealed is not just stealth counterplay, it counters condi removal so many thieves use and counters D/x dps etc.

Yes but think of this, the game is balanced around team fights as ANET constantly states.(people say they do, im really unsure.) that stated, if I as an engie take utility goggles, im gaining 10 vuln stacks, blind immunity and fury. these all aid me in taking down a theif, but against a warrior? they let me do more damage, thats it, the blind immunity and stealth reveal do nothing. Also, I lose out on a kit in that slot. So we lose alot to take this, and all it lets us do is counter theives.

You just killed you’re own argument.

This was a very calculated implementation on anet’s part.

They are listening to the stealth whines and these changes are a direct result. I would not be surprised to see every class get reveal on their utility skills.

Question remains though what will thieves receive in return, and why is anet again implementing changes based on WvW alone?

So uhh why are pvp thieves better than WvW ones??

Also what tier are you kitten measuring fellas from?

I always thought detonating it should hit 15 targets since you lose the blast finish part of the ability

All the good EU guilds are not as good as the NA guilds

Eternal is my new Lions Arch Ledge

I just stand there looking pretty talking to everyone that passes by

I love how the teef phrase took off