Guild Wars 2

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Just go full DPS spec (zerker, 10/30/0/30/0 traits) and take hammer. The permanent protection you get from the symbol is better than any knight’s gear you can take.

You have to hit the first two autoattacks of your chain to get the symbol working, you basically have to waste over 2 seconds on two autoattacks and then wait for the forever 1.25s channel to get that protection which only refreshes, and 1 sec/sec at that. If at any point your target avoids a hit from your auto you have to start the whole chain over.

Did I mention you’re vulnerable while doing that?

It’s good in PvE where targets are stationary but terrible for wvw.

true…eles/mesmers take little skill to win….although eles do take skill to play well…only bc they have infitinite spamming of skills and the only real talent is choosing which element to change to and when. the rest is just remember the best order of skill activation in each. mesmers…as you said….dodge…run in a circle to avoid dmg and let clones do 90% of the works (10% comes from clicking shatter and another utility or so that actually doesnt help clones/phants)

Good god -_-

The thief burst build you are discussing here is [Hotkey for Basilisk venom] [Hotkey for Assassin’s signet] 5 f1 1. Three move burst.

The entire execution takes not 2-3 seconds. The actual reaction time afforded to the player that you are murking is .5-1 seconds depending on how long you wait before you use steal while channeling C&D. If you aren’t terrible, you can time it right to get their reaction time to just above .5 seconds by using steal as late into the C&D channel as possible. Standard human reaction time is 1/3 of a second, they have .33 seconds to react, and then 1/6 of a second to stunbreak and dodge or eat the backstab.

That’s remembering the order of five keys, right, ignoring reactive play. And you’re complaining that mesmers and eles dont take skill to play, simplifying their class mechanics to “Clones dodge and shatter” and “Spam the right skills”. On paper it sounds easy, but if you think it actually is you’ve got another thing coming.

Also I’m neither mez nor ele main, my main is arguably one of if not the most faceroll class there is to play, and I can admit that. (No, not talking about thief)

Changes are minimal.

I tried it, and if you’re losing to warriors as a guardian assuming comparable skill level, here’s my hand headed towards the back of your head.

I believe it was the same in both spvp and wvw to begin with. Confusion however, was not.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

JakHammer.7094:

If we are taking X% increased damage from ‘Boon Hate’ does that mean the damage from Retaliation is also increased? Is ‘Save Yourselves!’ actually possibly a secret weapon – good thing, as we out heal the hater?

No??? It’s based on your power, not theirs

To the OP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization

Your sample size is terribad.

One time I went to Alabama and I only saw males. Hence, I believe it’s ok for me to assume that there were no females in Alabama at that time.

Again, the only way thieves can take advantage of this is going S/D, which without Boon hate is a sub par build.

And have you ever dueled a warrior? Given equal skill they are laughably easy and I would smack you for losing to one if you two were at comparable skill levels.

I honestly don’t mind the changes. Short of catching them sword thieves are far easier to deal with than their dagger wielding counterparts. And warriors are really just underpowered for things like spvp.

Yeah, I’m fine with instead of stealing a class mechanic a thief could steal a utility skill but stealing the entire utility bar from someone is insanely OP. Not to mention giving the thief a master trait in DA that allows those abilities to be spammed twice.

Seriously, could you imagine? Thief stealing For great justice, endure pain, balanced stance, one steal gives him 16s of stability, 8s of taking no damage, and 6 stacks of might for 25 seconds + 16s of fury. And this happens EVERY 30-45 seconds. How in the world is that NOT ludicrously overpowered?

Please stop posting suggestion threads like this Daecollo, and if you do, be reasonable about them.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru

Or it’s just the removal of the ability to stealth from a blind field while still hitting your opponent and immediately following with a backstab?

YES I’m suggesting that you not be able to stealth if you hit someone with a heartseeker out of a combo field.

Also, it’s not a combo attack, it’s just a combo. Combo field + finisher. Stop likening to that you are obligated to hit the opponent in order to get the effect.

Thief and Warriors now get them

Thief’s primary way of boon hate is through use of sword. It will steal boons

Warrior’s primary way of boon hate is through…uh…3% extra damage to targets per boon type.

Warrior can also now get through shelter/aegis with signet of might.

Thoughts?

Sure! I also think 4x aegis for a whole team is “op”. But if that’s allowed, why shouldn’t this be?

LMAO how is that even remotely OP? Not to mention Aegis is on ridiculously long CD’s anyways.

Thief is the only profession without a real distinctive advantage. Additionally they’re a inferior hybrid at best. People are simply peeved because skilled players and stat crunchers killed them in some small scale battles. Not even the whole team, thief killed one just one person.

What? This has nothing to do with giving a thief I’m fighting 3 of my utility slots every 30-45 seconds when half of my utilities are on timers more than 45 seconds. And no, he can use them TWICE if he gets improvisation. You want to make a thief a better ranger than a ranger? Absurd…

The class should have a distinctive, effective mechanic instead of a series of gimmicks that drives you wvw brats up the wall.

Initiative.

Yep ^

Also what about this being a combo “attack”. They’re not actually combo attacks, they’re just combos. Nothing about an attack. It takes a combo field and a combo finisher. I don’t need to attack someone to actually proc the effect from any combo.

That having been said, have you ever considered turning off auto targeting? I guarantee you that if you do you are never liable to hit someone with the HS.

And yes, exactly. Currently there is no counter to DP stealth except ranged interrupts, which a LOT of classes do not possess. This would add another risky way for melee classes to interrupt a thief’s stealth. In order to stop you from stealthing, I am placing myself in melee inside your blind field so I can’t hit you, but you can still hit me. And I am doing this to stop you from stealthing. That’s it, that’s all.

Ekemeister.8905:

This would be great for sPvP

Oh my god you can’t be kittening serious can you?!?

So then should CnD give you revealed every time also?

No? I don’t get the analogy at all and its relevance?

It wouldn’t be a combination attack if you didn’t get the combo effect when you attacked, the first time you do it you finish the attack before getting the stealth, if you happened to try it again and still hit someone you do already get revealed same as if you hit someone with CnD while stealthed already.

Seriously, what? Do you even understand what I’m suggesting? You sound like you don’t

What your suggesting basically means this one singular combination attack would only work if you didn’t attack.

yeah you don’t.

Daecollo what’s with this. You sound like you simply aren’t good with thieves. In the past week you’ve made two threads, both of which call for an overhaul to the thief’s profession mechanic by essentially doubling the utility slots available to them. What, you think your profession is so underpowered it deserves literally twice as many utility slots as every other class?

You’re insane.

Grimwolf.7163:

Teamkiller.4315:

I have a D/P thief and it’s troll in terms of survivability.

Then why would you suggest hitting with Heartseeker through a Smoke Field cause Revealed?
Combos are supposed to be helpful; if they did that then 99% of the time you’d only get Revealed. Smoke Fields would become massive liability.
You’d only bring it down from the top by completely negating any viability of it.
The set itself is far from overpowered anyway; the other options are just that much more terrible.

Because you hit someone “after” stealthing, plain and simple? There should be a way to counter D/P stealth, and allowing yourself to be hit by that heartseeker skill should be one way to counter. Of course, the thief can “counter” that by turning off autotargeting, he wouldn’t hit the other player unless the other player was in his black powder field or something. Wouldn’t you say it’s fair? He would still get off his stealth the vast majority of the time, unless the other player put himself at risk by going into melee with pulsing blinds on him.

When I said troll in terms of survivability, I meant it’s REALLY survivable. And this is coming from someone who isn’t even good at D/P.

If I want damage…

I never said you even HAD to run a staff. I said it gives you effectively 66% uptime on swiftness without boon duration. As for keeping up with enemies, you realize that unless you are playing a pvp mode, you should have no trouble because NPC mobs almost always fight to the death.

What you suggested is for him to use retreat, a shout that is on a long cooldown and apart from blocking one attack only gives swiftness. It is in short, somewhat of a waste of a utility slot, why would you not run hold the line instead? There isn’t even a question of whether or not you should run SyS or SyG, the latter largely considered the best guardian utility in the game.

As for worse traits, are you joking? What trait line gives you 5% extra critical chance period? No conditional, you don’t have to wield a 1h weapon. What trait line gives you free periodic cleanses? Oh, that would be valor, my bad. There’s also the issue of it containing toughness and critical damage, which are very sought after stats. 30% critical damage is nothing to sneeze at, remember.

You don’t want staff? Fine, ask your neighborhood friendly ele to throw down some lightning fields and start blasting. Stack swiftness.

Anyway, enough of this. I’m not going to convince you, because you’re not going to allow yourself to be convinced, but there’s absolutely no reason to sneer at the other traitlines; many of them contain extremely powerful traits.

I didn’t sneer at them, you said that he should drop 30 points in valor because he’s not going AH. I was like, wtf?

Also I lol’d because you thought you whirl for 18k.

• Walking out of red circles quickly when out of endurance

It’s not exactly difficult to walk out without swiftness?

• Escaping enemies, both in WvW and PvE

As a guardian if you’re being owned in the open world by mobs you’re doing something wrong. There are no silver mobs and the only champion + enemies you’ll face you will be facing likely with a zerg. In dungeons if you run away you’re abandoning your party.

• Moving quickly between critical points, such as supply camps, in WvW

You can keep recasting staff 3, it really really isn’t that huge of a difference. I get 75% uptime on swiftness with JUST staff 3, with 10% boon duration.

• Scouting in WvW (what commander doesn’t love a good scout?)

A commander that relies on a guardian to scout is a commander who is desperate for scouts. Thieves are 100x better at it.

• Running from point A to point B without taking damage from mobs

If you’re doing nothing but running at some point you will lose aggro and regen all the health anyways, what’s the point again? The only one I can think of is running parts of dungeons you don’t want to fight in, such as TA, but you don’t need 100% swiftness to run those.

• Chasing down an opponent in WvW

Guardians are bad at chasing. Not saying you can’t do it, just that other classes are far better at it.

• Maintaining consistent DPS on an enemy using a runspeed signet or trait

afaik there aren’t any runspeed traits or signets…apart from deal more damage with each boon on you, and it’s 1% extra damage per boon? OK perma-swiftness gives you +1% damage for a bit more of the time?

While burn builds are suboptimal given the way burning stacks in PvE, some people enjoy them, and they can still do significant damage while being hard to kill.

Look, you can run any kind of build you want. The bottom line is, some builds are better than others. If I tried to run a burn build in spvp I’d be laughed at, same as if I tried to use a warrior in tpvp. Guess why: it’s not because people are just plain mean.

Guardians maintain so much burning…

You yourself just admitted zeal is never worth investing more than 10 points into, do I really need to explain why it’s bad when you just kinda sorta outright admitted it’s bad? And you’d be surprised how often our enemy ISN’T burning. Especially when you’re fighting more than one opponent, the trait is absolutely abysmal compared to our other +10% damage traits. Like for example, the low endurance or just simply condition one.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that you trait for stats. Traits are for bonus effects, not for stats—the stats can be made up to whatever you want them to be with gear, given that you have the effects you want.

*Misconception?

They are a bonus (the stats). However, not investing in Valor, like I said, makes you miss out on a ton of critical damage. Depending on how much precision you have, and the more you have the worse it is, you are SERIOUSLY crippling your own damage. If you have 60% critical rate investing vs not investing would equal about an 18% difference in base damage.

You absolutely cannot make up that drop in critical damage. The max you will reach is max-30% and that’s in full berserker gear. Meanwhile the guardian that invests in valor can reach 80% critical damage while sporting 3k+ armor and 17k+ hp. I mean, really, you decide. You also have to deal with the useless 300 in condition damage.

14% extra crit chance is nothing to sneeze at.

It is if you see the secondary stat that goes with it. What was that, condition damage? Possibly the most useless trait of all as most of our conditions don’t even damage.

For that matter, neither are the grandmaster Radiance traits. The master Radiance traits…

Congratulations? You just proved to me how Radiance, an offensive trait line, is more offensive than Valor, a hybrid trait line. I mean…yeah that’s kinda obvious?

I agree with pretty much everything you said here.

Something else to note: Traps and Venoms (with the exception of basilisk or devourer’s) are absolutely rubbish, and as it stands deception pretty much pwns everything else in terms of utility.

Steal abilities need to be balanced. Some are really good, like bladestorm, others really suck, like throw gunk.

D/P Heartseeker. stealth should NOT proc if the heartseeker hits me. It should instead reveal you. Ideally, have the stealth be applied at the moment you use the finisher on the field. This would, imo, balance D/P.

I have a D/P thief and it’s troll in terms of survivability.

In my opinion Guardians are undoubtedly the best World vs World class.

This is coming from a guardian with 20k kills in wvw. I feel like I can actually turn the tide of battles, and when our commander is doing micro command, things that guardians provide are most asked for. Mass stability top counter that CC? You got it. Retaliation/light fields? Here ya go. Blast finishers on four second cooldown? We got that. Need even MOAR might stacking? Empower. Need heals? Who else would you call? A staff ele? LOL. Troll the enemy by reflecting all projectiles? Up goes that wall of reflection. Need mass CC in the middle of their zerg? Here comes some wards and ground target sanctuaries. Condition clear? Here ya go. Need 50 bajillion boons? I can do that as well. Need massive damage? You call glass staff ele to meteor shower. Or you could ask the guardians to take out their tome of wrath. Not to mention most wvw guilds have guardians being recruited as in the most demand.

I should mention you can accomplish a vast majority of what I mentioned above all in one build (I run it). All while doing very very respectable damage inside a zerg and proccing a lot of crit effects. I have survived nearly 100% of our initial pushes into enemy zergs as well.

Do you want to talk about small scale skirmishes? Well then you should try fighting against a decently skilled healway guardian sometime. You can trust me that a decent player running that build will be nearly impossible to kill in a 1v1. The build I mentioned that does so much for zerg fights couldn’t even bring the last healway guardian I dueled to use his heal skill, and although I am not glass cannon I do pretty high amounts of damage for what it’s worth. Healway isn’t the only, or necessarily even the guardian’s best dueling build. Let’s just say this weekend I came upon a guardian who was just destroying every single person on our server in duels, and he does this very very often.

That having been said, there’s no doubt that thieves make the best scouts and duelists in open world roaming. It’s not necessarily because they have the best combat mechanics; they don’t. Rather, they have the best engage and disengage mechanisms, yes, even better than DD eles.

FOR EXAMPLE: lets say your old school or just not smart and like to run d/d burst thief in wvw . you CnD but he blocks with aegis or soemthing….then u dodge his attack then u try CnD again but he dodges bc its insanely slow and u can see it coming…..now u are fully outo f intiative lol! welll maybe 1-2 from regen. lets steal! IF it hits you get a few thousand damage! ok so in that scenario u only did like 3-5k dmg and guess what…ur out of intiative and about to die.

What you just described is one of the worst openings that could possible occur for a thief fighting a Guardian/Mesmer/whoever else has access to aegis. Missing 2 Cloak and Daggers and out of dodges?!?

Even then, you have two utility skills you can use to get away. Shadow refuge and shadowstep. Much more often than not, the thief will get away if he chooses to disengage. The only thieves I’ve ever been able to kill I’ve either

1) Been a thief myself and just bursted them down
2) jumped them at not full health and bursted them down with another class
3) They chose to bravely but also unwisely stay and fight to their death (this includes all duels against thieves I’ve been in)
4) Focused with multiple other people to take down.

Anyways, mug needs a nerf. It does too much for being a minor trait

Kharel Arhew.1437:

Your build will work, and with damage gear, you’ll deal quite a bit of damage. However, with your setup, your concerns about being kited are quite valid. You have a ton of condition removal, and just under 23% uptime on Stability, which will help you out, but you don’t have much swiftness, and hammer is not a particularly mobile weapon.

Also, if you’re not going to run with a zerg or at least a 5-man, I would highly recommend dropping Altruistic Healing—if the only person you’re giving boons to is yourself, the healing you’ll get from it isn’t worth the 30 trait points. And, if you do drop it, I’d actually recommend dropping all 30 points in the line, as the other traits in Valor aren’t particularly spectacular.

The question becomes, what do you replace it with? The Virtues line offers some excellent benefits. 10% extra damage against burning foes is great, especially if you trait Supreme Justice. If you go with Virtues and take boon duration runes (2 Sup. Water, 2 Sup. Monk, 2 Major Sanctuary) you can get permanent swiftness if you bring Retreat or a staff, which is definitely worth some consideration.

Guards not dealing damage is definitely a misconception. My 0/15/0/30/25 Guardian build regularly bursts for over 16k damage (boosted to 18k if I’m around another source of might) with greatsword/sword+focus. Even if a target is fairly mobile they’re still going to take the majority of that damage. I’m by no means a glass cannon either, with Celestial trinkets and a mix of P/T/V and power/precision/crit damage armor and weaponry.

This post…-_-

Let’s clear some stuff up. You invest the 30 points in valor because of the toughness and the critical damage. The trait line is both defensive and offensive, and contains our best grandmaster traits. That is why it is considered the best trait line to invest in. Dropping all 30 points from valor is a bad idea because

1) It’s going to cripple your damage potential
2) You lose out on what is effectively 10-20% damage reduction.

The radiance line… investing in all 30 points, will give you 300 precision and 300 condition damage, which is the equivalent of 15% extra critical rate and marginally more burning. Less than that, actually. Consider now the retributive armor trait that’s available in Valor; that’s 100 extra precision for 2000 toughness, that’s 1/3 of the critical rate you lost on right there, not to mention the extra 300 toughness and 30% critical damage you’re doing to get.

Honestly if you are trying to get damage there is practically no reason to not invest in Valor. There’s a reason it’s considered our best line.

Second, 10% vs burning is in the zeal line, not the virtues line. And Zeal is absokittenlutey terrible. I would advise against that line as much as I would advise against a burn build for a guardian. They’re both just awful options.

Third, boon duration is nice, yes, however the boon duration is not used for swiftness as much as it is used to prolong the boons we get from our shouts and other supportive abilities. If you are dueling, there is nothing more powerful than an 18 second save yourselves. Permanent swiftness is available without having to invest in boon duration, yes, with the staff. Although I’m not sure why you would need permanent swiftness to begin with.

Lastly…18k whirling wrath is…no…even people who build full glass cannon guardian, and I mean the 10k health 2k armor type, have trouble whirling for that much. Like someone else in the thread said, the damage you see is accumulated damage, not per hit damage.

Tome of wrath user here

I can hit anywhere from 3k’ish on heavily armored target to up to 6k on glass cannons/uplevels.

Since the quickness nerf I have NEVER used this skill outside of a group fight, but believe me it makes a big difference in say 5v5’s. Taking away a third of every enemy’s health + 2 second knockdown is pretty huge in my book.

Don’t forget the massive stacks of might and fury you can give, along with the burning weakness and cripple.

You can’t spell fail without [FA]

On FA lol

Seriously is there any reason at all to take it? I could literally revive someone who just went down faster than signet of mercy can.

No, I don’t have screens immediately prior, because I wasn’t aware that you were going to exploit in, obviously? Like I said, I was AFK between those time frames but I had the teamspeak on the entire time. Nothing was happening at QL of which to speak, there was no way for you to get in without breaking the door down or exploits.

The thing is, you weren’t camping QL later on when we retook it. We didn’t sweep it then but we did leave two guardians camping the tower. A couple Yumm came over, took a look, and took a hike. Gee I wonder why

@Yarba

It has nothing to do with sweeping, even though I agree, because those thieves that capped the tower were outside of it not 1 minute prior to them getting inside. How, then, do then get inside without a mesmer?

IA up the steps of QL?

Anyways instead of being so defensive about your own guild would it KILL you to investigate some of your members, especially considering that you are posting on the public forums to recruit which kinda doesn’t guarantee quality members.

Professor Sensei.2941:

Teamkiller.4315:

Before you join you might want to take a look at things like this…

If you want to be respected don’t allow things like this to happen.

Off hand pistol 5 and Short bow 2

learn to play

Videos showing how
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HYVjxmV6tE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6UGjoQqnW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9XC0SlkP90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCja8HLeN6w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-rc5ksQN3M

Nope, definitely wasn’t that.

How do I know? I saw your thieves outside when I Afk’d. I come back from Afk’ing and they’re inside.

I Afk’d for less than a minute. Oh and it’s worth noting, I Afk’d inside the tower

Neeho.3859:

^^What he said; there’s no guards past the originals. Two schools of thought on this:

• No harm, no foul (invuln buff makes it so they can’t kill anyone)
• OMG they’re spying on us!

It’s just another hole in the code that Anet has yet to fix.

The problem is the same thing happened with the same guys at QL today and yesterday. Gate was at 100%, we saw the thieves outside the tower 5 minutes before they got in, gate remained at 100% when they were inside.

You do the math.

Oh and there were no mesmers.

Before you join you might want to take a look at things like this…

If you want to be respected don’t allow things like this to happen.

You sacrifice toughness for damage. There’s a build out there that someone who’s really good at guardian dueling runs, but I can’t give away specifics any more than that

Oh right, took two more screenshots

Couple Yumm “Sea of Men” got into our spawn today.

They were thieves if it matters

How does this happen?

Amins.3710:

I run a full Mediation because AH builds are inferior unless using a Staff or Pve’n…

AH build inferior to a meditation build…right you keep telling yourself that

oh so you basically mean the thief can’t open with backstab or similar skills?

Cause it gimps a lot of thieves and still doesn’t solve the problem of instagibbing. Backstab is actually the third skill in the mug-cnd-bs-hs instagib combo…

All I have to say is I very disagree.

I run tomes over 80% of the time in WvW with our very competitive guild group and I do just fine.

P.S. I run what is considered the worse of the two tomes, so you might wanna reconsider.

The wards and sanctuaries aren’t supposed to stop the entire zerg, they just stability.

however what it DOES do it 1) force them to pop their stability and 2) separate the ones with stability from the ones without, you fight two smaller groups in sucession rather than one large group, which is strategically advantageous.

And yes, out of all the classes, we have probably the most ways like with mesmers, around the 5 man “aoe” cap. Wards affect all, sanctuary blocks all, wall of reflection reflects all projectiles, bubbles block all projectiles, retaliation (one of the boons we have on the highest uptime) does not have an aoe cap, etc etc.

And I wouldn’t say we’re useless solo. We’re quite powerful solo actually (built different from the area control guardian; the best solo is usually triple shouts), if built for roaming. The problem is we don’t have escape skills so we basically have to be situationally aware to run from higher numbers or win all our fights.

Overall our class functions far better in a zerg but we’re still one of the most powerful duelist classes. Having clocked about nearly 900 hours on a guardian, with well over half being in wvw, I can say we one of if not THE best and we are definitely THE most highly demanded classes in this realm.

Yes, several huge ones in fact. For example, when we do small scale GvGs or run dungeons if we have a thief he usually shadow refuges us before the fight begins to get the positional advantage or run past enemies we don’t want to fight, respectively (for dungeons this would for example be the huge room in CM right before the final boss with about 30 silver mob bandits).

This solution won’t work

Also thief vs thief duels would suck.

ok so the other day i was defending this tower you see and then this charr commander comes and attacks it with like 10 people and a dolyak. Well we killed everything but this charr commander and our commander told us to leave him alone. he just camped the tower for an hour before i got back.

being the brave chap that i was i decided to fight him, he was using a greatsword so i thought “ok so i’ll melt him with retaliation”. but he never uses whirling wrath. instead he uses HAMMER FIVE with the greatsword. OP much? Then uses that shield of wrath which is FOCUS FIVE. Again, it’s pretty OP but I can deal with it so far. Shield of wrath only blocks three attacks right? Ill just burn through it.

well, I whirled on him (it’s 9 attacks if you don’t count projectiles) and spammed my autoattack but no it wouldn’t go down. It was blocking way more attacks than my own shield of wrath and then it burst. 12k damage. OK now I run 3.2k armor and that kind of damage is just absurd. He’s not a glass cannon because my attacks barely took off a sliver of his health with like 4 veterans around me helping to try to kill him. Not only does he kill all the veterans but almost one-shots me. I stability through his hammer 5 ward (again, he’s using a greatsword, not a hammer) back into the tower, healing myself as I do so but before I can fully heal I eat a binding blade. It’s about time he actually uses a greatsword ability.

He PULLS me through the wall and I get stuck. For about 5 minutes I just sit there and watch other poor fellows get mauled by this insanely OP guardian. I was wondering, what build is he running? There was a guardian on our side by the name of “siegerazer” I’ve seen a couple times running a really similar build. If anyone can help me out here I’d be really grateful. I really want to be able to run this build

You can cancel channel with dodging.

Also, retaliation is designed to counter those kinds of things. Things that proc effects fast. And finally…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation

are you kidding me? The targets you are fighting would need to have over ten thousand power in order to do 1000 damage per tick of retaliation.

Daecollo.9578:

Teamkiller.4315:

OK, how about this. Compare Steal to the Guardian’s F1. Which one is better? Compare it to the Guardian’s F2. Which one is better? F3. Which one is better? I’ll remind you that Guardian F2 and F3 are both are significantly longer cooldowns than Steal.

So? Well, it’s pretty obvious that Steal is better than any of the Guardian’s virtues. Especially if you get the mug trait. And let’s face it, it’s pretty easy to trait steal.

Let’s take a look at what it CAN do:

Serpent’s Touch – Stealing applies poison for 10 seconds.
Improvisation – Stealing recharges all skills of one type (venoms, signets, traps, tricks, or deceptions). Deal 10% more damage while wielding a bundle.
Mug – Deal damage when stealing.

Thief tango icon 20px.png Shadow Arts

Hidden Thief – Stealing grants you 2 seconds of stealth.

Thief tango icon 20px.png Trickery

Each point in Trickery increases the recharge rate of stealing by 1%.
Kleptomaniac – Stealing gives you 3 initiative.
Bountiful Theft – Stealing grants you and all nearby allies vigor for 15 seconds. Up to two boons are also ripped from your target and granted to nearby allies.
Long Reach – Increases the range on stealing.
Sleight of Hand – Stealing also dazes your target for 1 second.
Thrill of the Crime – When you steal, you and all nearby allies gain fury, might and swiftness for 10 seconds.

So why do you think you should get F2’s and F3’s when your F1 is clearly one of the best profession skills there are? You want F2 and F3? My guardian wants F4 because well Elementalists have an F4 right? So why shouldn’t we get one? Might as well let warrior get F2 F3 and F4 while you’re at it. Slippery slope is a pretty interesting thing.

People will complain they are underpowered just like people in every other class complain thieves, or any other class that rolls them, are overpowered.

Oh, and before you start hacking on guardians, let me remind you that guardians have a total of 150 more armor than thieves in full exotics annnnnd the same base amount of HP. I never complain that my virtues suck. Why? Because I’ve done the bare minimum of traiting them (short of not traiting them) and I primarily use other things to gain the advantage in fights. If you haven’t traited steal, yeah it’s not gonna be really good, but if you do, it is amazing. Especially the fact that in 20 deadly arts you can recharge all utilities of the same type with steal. Seriously dude.

Steal doesn’t have a passive effect.

Quick question. Which heal does warrior use more? Healing signet or mending.

Another question: why are five signet warriors, along with every other full signet build on any class, considered so absolutely terrible event though signets have both active and passive effects?

Humorless.1573:

Teamkiller.4315:

Especially the fact that in 20 deadly arts you can recharge all utilities of the same type with steal. Seriously dude.

Why would you pick one of the most useless traits in the game in an argument about usefulness?

I don’t get how it’s useless? Recharging both shadowstep and shadow refuge every 30-45 seconds seems pretty useful to me.

OK, how about this. Compare Steal to the Guardian’s F1. Which one is better? Compare it to the Guardian’s F2. Which one is better? F3. Which one is better? I’ll remind you that Guardian F2 and F3 are both are significantly longer cooldowns than Steal.

So? Well, it’s pretty obvious that Steal is better than any of the Guardian’s virtues. Especially if you get the mug trait. And let’s face it, it’s pretty easy to trait steal.

Let’s take a look at what it CAN do:

Serpent’s Touch – Stealing applies poison for 10 seconds.
Improvisation – Stealing recharges all skills of one type (venoms, signets, traps, tricks, or deceptions). Deal 10% more damage while wielding a bundle.
Mug – Deal damage when stealing.

Thief tango icon 20px.png Shadow Arts

Hidden Thief – Stealing grants you 2 seconds of stealth.

Thief tango icon 20px.png Trickery

Each point in Trickery increases the recharge rate of stealing by 1%.
Kleptomaniac – Stealing gives you 3 initiative.
Bountiful Theft – Stealing grants you and all nearby allies vigor for 15 seconds. Up to two boons are also ripped from your target and granted to nearby allies.
Long Reach – Increases the range on stealing.
Sleight of Hand – Stealing also dazes your target for 1 second.
Thrill of the Crime – When you steal, you and all nearby allies gain fury, might and swiftness for 10 seconds.

So why do you think you should get F2’s and F3’s when your F1 is clearly one of the best profession skills there are? You want F2 and F3? My guardian wants F4 because well Elementalists have an F4 right? So why shouldn’t we get one? Might as well let warrior get F2 F3 and F4 while you’re at it. Slippery slope is a pretty interesting thing.

People will complain they are underpowered just like people in every other class complain thieves, or any other class that rolls them, are overpowered.

Oh, and before you start hacking on guardians, let me remind you that guardians have a total of 150 more armor than thieves in full exotics annnnnd the same base amount of HP. I never complain that my virtues suck. Why? Because I’ve done the bare minimum of traiting them (short of not traiting them) and I primarily use other things to gain the advantage in fights. If you haven’t traited steal, yeah it’s not gonna be really good, but if you do, it is amazing. Especially the fact that in 20 deadly arts you can recharge all utilities of the same type with steal. Seriously dude.

Tier 2 will be looking forward to DB

Mesmers have shatter, and all those other classes don’t “NEED” those skills to be good.

No? You’re absolutely right. There are more than 3 usable utilities for every class. THIEF INCLUDED.

Thieves HAVE TO HAVE Shadow Step on there tool bar, there is no ifs and or buts.

No they don’t. That’s not an if. That’s a NO. Tell me, what is shadow step used for primarily? Offense? No? Then it won’t interfere with your ability to kill. Good day.

Daecollo.9578:

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

No.

That would make your class OP as kitten.

Howso?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29M_VElHoFI

Because you are essentially doubling the utilities available to your class

Our Utilities blow compared to other classes, the only good utilities we have are deception, and they are the ones that are glued to our hotbar.

No, your other utilities blow in comparison to other classes’ best utilities.

Every class has a set of utilities that blow as well. Your suggestion would be akin to something like this:

Guardian — F4 F5 F6 All Shouts
Elementalists — F5 F6 F7 Cantrips
Ranger — F5 F6 F7 Traps
Mesmer — F5 F6 F7 Glamour
Warrior — F2 F3 F4 Shouts
Necro — F2 F3 F4 Wells
Engineer — I don’t even know about engineers but Fx – F(x+3) put 3 most commonly used Engi utilities here

Are you willing to let all the other classes have this? If no then your suggestion would make Thief OP.

Daecollo.9578:

Teamkiller.4315:

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

No.

That would make your class OP as kitten.

Howso?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29M_VElHoFI

Because you are essentially doubling the utilities available to your class

Stealing from a mesmer is my favorite.

All boons? yes please

Daecollo.9578:

Deception Skills should be the thieves base skills they unlock as they level.

F1: Steal
F2: Smoke Screen
F3: Shadow Refuge
F4: Shadow Step

Shadow Step is always going to be a member of the utility bar anyways, why not make it a base thief mechanic?

No.

That would make your class OP as kitten.

Entioch.6594:

Teamkiller.4315:

Good 5v5’s from ONI at the South Camp of Kain BL.

Try to be more gracious losers next time though, our commander was talking about how you were being bad sports about hard rezzing, then accusing us of beating 3 thieves comp with 2 guardians comp and how it is not impressive (even though for half the matches our second guardian left so I was the only one)

P.S.: We were all running Zerg v Zerg support builds, not ideal for skirmishes

Sorry about that, when we roam late we do drunk roaming where we do shots with certain rules “every downed guardian, thief etc.” so we were plastered and I was being belligerent. Though I haven’t seen a hard rez in a 5v5 and I don’t think any of us were expecting that. That said you guys played great matches and we had a fun back and forth, though I think you guys won more. We should do it again sometime.

Oh, and to the golem guy, red something, om nom nom nom nom.

Lmao it’s fine. You were good sports outside of PMs to our commander. I exaggerated, my bad.

I’m sure you saw the Kaineng zerg that came in to try to crash the party. Those two PiNK eles led us into them I swear!

Good 5v5’s from ONI at the South Camp of Kain BL.

Try to be more gracious losers next time though, our commander was talking about how you were being bad sports about hard rezzing, then accusing us of beating 3 thieves comp with 2 guardians comp and how it is not impressive (even though for half the matches our second guardian left so I was the only one)

P.S.: We were all running Zerg v Zerg support builds, not ideal for skirmishes