Guild Wars 2

Mrbig.8019:

Terrorsquad.2349:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

mistsim.2748:

thieves are getting asploded left right and centre. thieves who i remember being very, very good before patch. it’s really rough for them right now.

it’s really interesting actually. we all cried when we saw thief and engie spec changes, yet theyre the ones struggling the most in this new age. they just cant live long enough =(

Definitely not true, i was garbage on a thief pre-patch and now I’m actually doing alright.

Thats actually because the rest is doing bad, trying to figure out whats best.

Thief didnt rly had that much changes. And not much choices anyway..

Thief had the best changes among all.

the capability to not waste stats on garbage traitlines.

Full damage with full utility.

Old panic strike build had 34% crit chance and bad ferocity, with no heal/ini regen/damage reduction on stealth and no more stealth duration.

Wrong. It was +40% crit chance, with berserker amulet.

It now has all the above WITH 100 more ferocity, more health, 55% crit chance and executioner too.

EVERYONE has this, using Marauders. Execution is a GM trait, which we need to full opt for.

Thinking of this in a team setting is just plainly broken, it’s broken by itself figure it out how can it be with 2-3 people opening from stealth on a single guy.

They’ll always use stealth openers, it’s not Thief’s fault.

This needs to be nerfed to the ground, not thief but stealth overall: 6 secs max duration, reveal when stealth ends ASAP.

Nope. Never had problem with ppl using stealth. This is an issue where you need to find a team and play around it. This is not a Solo Game.

“thief didn’t really had much changes” my kitten .

Aslong you dont play thief as I do, you cant understand the changes.
If you think we had so much changes, why do you think s/d is beyond bad now and everyone is going d/p DA/SA/TRICK? Because of the so called “oh many changes and buffs”?

No, build diversity for thief is simply gone. Only thing left is D/P.

Why we have more stealth now? Because need to utilize SA for y’all facerolling condi-hype with 5k burning ticks. We use the SA traitline to remove those to eventually give you a tiny bit more challenge, but still resulting in dying either way.

Aslong this condi-hype stays, thief will remain using SA for sure.

And please, dont talk like you’re a thief expert because clearly you’re not.

rchu.8945:

Anet is always biased against Mesmers and love the thieves, look at how quickly they fix the “reveal on miss” bug. Freaking unbelievable. When thieves cry loud enough, they give them love and shift the nerf to Mesmers.

There’s a difference between fixing a bug and nerf/buff a class.

After a while of testing on thief, I have to agree: Build Diversity is worse.

Optimal Thief Builds for Conquest:

• D/P DA/SA/Trickery
• …

Thats all.. D/P is the only viable weaponset, which has a very little choice of traits, which is the same as before. S/D Acro is beyond… bad.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

mistsim.2748:

thieves are getting asploded left right and centre. thieves who i remember being very, very good before patch. it’s really rough for them right now.

it’s really interesting actually. we all cried when we saw thief and engie spec changes, yet theyre the ones struggling the most in this new age. they just cant live long enough =(

Definitely not true, i was garbage on a thief pre-patch and now I’m actually doing alright.

Thats actually because the rest is doing bad, trying to figure out whats best.

Thief didnt rly had that much changes. And not much choices anyway..

Jesus, when are ppl going to stop trolling and crying over something.

Do u even know why thieves need to go SA?
Because y’all bunking in condi-faceroll builds, with ridiculous 1-hit condi skills.

If ppl werent (ab)using conditions and/or if conditions would atleast be less passsive or balanced, thieves wouldnt need to go SA.

Not thieves fault, but conditions.

And if you still don’t know why, I suggest to start play a thief.

Whenever you’re in Custom Arena on EU, the 1v1 servers, the game crashes EVERY time you try to spectate the build.

Just sharing it with you guys.

+1 hopefully this is a bug.

Gunsnroll.2657:

What if you see them before ? How would you know what mats to get ?
Just save money as everyone else.

• New Legendaries made through Mastery will be Account Bound (cant buy)
• No information given if u even can buy the items required making it
• I think a preview of this should be in order, don’t you agree?

snow.8097:

in one post they already stated that they will preview the legendarys at…
release.

If that is true, that would be lame :/

I really hope you guys are soon previewing the new legendaries so people, like myself, know if we need to start farming/keeping stuff for it or not. It’s almost July already

Sincerely, Denied

It will take a couple of weeks until all is figured out, like previous meta-shifts.

This time the meta-shift will be the largest ever the game had, so might take a bit more time.

I already suggested this months ago, as Im playing all classes myself.

I suggest a title called: Jack of All Trades (, Master Of None) for having all 8 champion titles.

+1, would be nice to see

Hey RWG,

The thing is that both PugQuest and AG are ‘Community-driven’ Tournaments/establishments.

ArenaNet is helping us out with the prizing (as you know) but further we’re doing everything else.

We, in EU, have already alot on our hands helping out the 20-30 teams that sign up weekly (rosters, questions, organizing, stream, etc).

Organizing FA between our own private time-schedules will take some time to work out. (as we’re discussing other stuff aswel)

I think this will sure come, due the high demand, in the future.

We’ll keep you updated for that matter.

Sincerely,

Denied

Lordrosicky.5813:

Thief has been the best class for most of the last 3 years and you still complain? On EU there has literally been a theif in every successful team since release. Teams always want thieves.

Continue saying rubbish and you might see Necro get deleted eventually. (karma)

FYI: we also saw warriors, engineers, eles and guardians in every successful team.

Jekkt.6045:

either your crystal ball was very cheap or it’s broken.

^

Added New Video:

• Added “Updated Teleport Spots” in the list above

So as the price is quite ‘high’ for the expansion, our expectations are high aswel, ofcourse.

I am wondering if we would finally get the Build Templates we’ve been asking for about.. 3 years now?

It would make it more fun than having to change class all of a sudden and have another Class Wars 2 before the match even starts.

Thanks o/

As a Guildleader of a PvP exclusive guild, I approve of this suggestion.

Added New Video:

• Added “Making Leaps Smaller” (mechanical aspect) in the list above

Tentonhammr.7849:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Sad, my 8 Legendaries are worth less then. I always saw Legendaries not only as a cool skin, but also as a great utility to invest in, changing stats.

Now Legendaries arent even unique anymore, except for the skin and +1 Infusion slot…

Yea, cuz it’s not like you can change stats for free without dumping 4-6g into the forge… oh wait…

Legendary Worth of Mats > Asc changing stats, even after 30-40-50 times.

Sad, my 8 Legendaries are worth less then. I always saw Legendaries not only as a cool skin, but also as a great utility to invest in, changing stats.

Now Legendaries arent even unique anymore, except for the skin and +1 Infusion slot…

iirc, it was first supposedly being buffed to 120%. I was surprised seeing Vigor nerfed by 50% instead lol..

+1 troll post, was a good read, troll approved.

+1 most useless post 2015, no sense.

+1, it’s actually true about burst builds having to focus on atleast 2 stats while condi builds only need to focus on 1 (since there is no condi duration on amulet as a stat)

So ye, I would actually love this change, to make those less faceroll. I would find it sad on my p/s rabid engi but hey.. Rework on conditions is needed.

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve never had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Well, I would disagree here. Stealth does need a counterplay, but most people do not realize that it already has a counterplay.

I said it multiple times in my other comments: Stealth has more counterplay than block has. What I tried to say for 10 times in this thread is that it doesnt need more counterplay than it already has. I phrased my last sentence you quoted wrong, just a typo

Spamming aoe in the last location you saw the thief is a strategy that works only against freshly made thieves..and not even in most case; so i really wonder about what counterplay you’re referring to

Block skills have ample CD : shelter 30s CD, renewing focus 75s CD, aegis 60s CD, arcane shield 75s CD, etc etc..so I fail to see the comparison sorry

I know you understand what I’m trying to say but you’re just not admitting it. Stealth has more than enough counterplay. Block has.. close to none? Maybe thats why the CD’s

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve never had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

Well, I would disagree here. Stealth does need a counterplay, but most people do not realize that it already has a counterplay.

I said it multiple times in my other comments: Stealth has more counterplay than block has. What I tried to say for 10 times in this thread is that it doesnt need more counterplay than it already has. I phrased my last sentence you quoted wrong, just a typo

If, after trying that, you’re still at a loss for how to counter stealth, it’s possible that GW2 is too complex a game for you, and you might be better served playing something simpler and more straightforward.

This. I can really not believe how ppl can call stealth OP or even need more counterplay to it (inside PvP Conquest).. I’ve barely had any probs vs teams with stealth setups when playing a non-stealth class/build, as I play mostly thief myself. So I know how they work and how they CAN rotate (strategically and mechanically) if they’re decent. Stealth really needs no counterplay.

As said before, I would agree to a max stealth cap but that’s all. Although, I do think thieves should get something small in return for that.

xDudisx.5914:

Quadox.7834:

xDudisx.5914:

Yes mesmer GS is the most broken weapon in the game. One of the few ranged weapons that is not a projectile on autoatck. Has unblockable skills on a very short cd.

That’s probably why mesmers in the past always used staff-sword and no greatsword, for half the game’s life. Thief shortbow and warrior longbow says hello.

Thief shorbow is only 900 range. Cluster bomb is incredible slow moving projectile and the other 4 skills do almost no dmg. Has 0 unblockable skills.

Wrong.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Choking_Gas
Please don’t speak for a class you dont know.

glock.6590:

Lol people keep saying DPS guard hard counters thief when the current PS meta thief actually does pretty well vs medi DPS guard

It does well to a certain degree. If it has luck with Improvisation trait (RNG trait) and Vamp Proc still availabl, then yes. Otherwise 1 Hammer Ring and GG.

I play this game rather casually and I don’t feel hard countered by guards on the PS meta thief. So the only thing that can succefully shut down a thief is another thief, that’s why people ask for other zerkers to be more viable. Its a reasonable suggestion.

Casually, face decent DPS guards not wasting all their cooldown on 1 Steal. 1 Mighty Blow after wep swap and half of your HP is simply gone. It would be reasonable if it was reasonable. Not demanding so much as they do now (longer reveal + reveal after stealth + max cap on stealth). You only play it casually so I dont expect you to understand this.

In theory other zerker classes could actually beat a thief 1v1 but in a real match you can’t do anything vs stealth and thief can just wait in stealth until you have no cooldowns and one shot you if you have a zerker ammy.

Please show me this godly build that can one-shot.

So unless you are a bunker or a thief yourself you can’t do anything vs stealth.

Yes you can, cap the point. Thief goes stealth? Profit! Or, in a teamfight, which I bet you were gonna use as discussion, have someone peel for you and/or cleanse/heal. If you don’t have it available, search another team.

The duration obviously needs a nerf, thieves don’t need to get revealed or anything because that would be too punishing and some builds can already faceroll the keyboard and be succeful so just lowering or capping stealth to 5 secs would solve a lot of problems.

I agree with you here: cap stealth all u want, wouldn’t really matter for good thieves. But demanding reveal after some time in stealth and longer reveal is too much.

Cuz even fresh air ele could actually beat a thief if they couldn’t refuge for a century and come back once the ele already used all his CD’s.

I said this earlier before; what kind of good thief would waste his SR to take out Fresh Air Ele? It’s better to take down fresh Air by surprise instead of head-on and waste your cd’s. Improvisation is RNG trait, does NOT guarantee you 2nd refuge, even if that was your only utility used. (not many ppl seem to know this)

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Reuptake.5016:

Oh this is a typical I want my class to faceroll more then others kind of post.

Thief are one of the most squishiest profs other there, if you give them trouble in out-of-combat mehanics you will make the class being one shoted by just looking at them.

Anet pls ignore and as for the guy who posted this;

L2P – “signed by entire Thief community”

I agree. Stealth do has enough counters, more than block. Ranger pew pew and other channeling skills are killing us much as it is, without any effort.

Want more stealth counters? Give thieves more block counters, then.

This is the issue. Thief depends on the stealth to be able to survive. I don’t think it’s fair to compare gw2 with other mmos because it works completely different. Thief like classes have different defensive mechanisms, gw2 also have no trinity. If people want to nerf stealth, then they need to give thief something else.

Exactly. If they want a piece of the defense mechanic of thief, thief SHOULD have a piece of theirs.

Reuptake.5016:

Oh this is a typical I want my class to faceroll more then others kind of post.

Thief are one of the most squishiest profs other there, if you give them trouble in out-of-combat mehanics you will make the class being one shoted by just looking at them.

Anet pls ignore and as for the guy who posted this;

L2P – “signed by entire Thief community”

I agree. Stealth do has enough counters, more than block. Ranger pew pew and other channeling skills are killing us much as it is, without any effort.

Want more stealth counters? Give thieves more block counters, then.

choovanski.5462:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

just lost all respect for you when you defended thieves not getting revealed when the opponent has ageis. on no level is that fair. it makes backstab basically immune to blinds and unblockable.

Aegis/blocks are already very strong as it is in this game. Classes have barely access to optimal builds + having ‘Unblockable’ attacks. DPS Guards already hardcounter thieves in tpvp so giving a bit slack while we can remove Aegis in stealth is just fair. There’s only Thief who can deal massive damage with backstab, which barely crits aswel, due panic strike. So it’s not like its killing you. Do not dramatize this.
Its thanks to the invuln + blocks + blinds + immo + cc you can counter thieves as Guardian. May we please be able to remove 1 tiny block in stealth while mighty blow on guardians kills us without even having to aim?

Silhouette.5631:

Stealth needs more counter play, and it is being given more counter play. But unfortunately instead of the basic stealth system being given soft counters (like CCing people outa stealth) they are giving classes individual hard counters….like guardians getting The Hammer of Dawn. Seriously we did not need that thing. give counter play to stealth, rebalance theif, all will be happy

Thief is fine as it is. Rebalance the rest.
You want counter vs Stealth? Fine, give thieves (or any other stealth users) counter to blocks. Block has just as many ‘counters’ stealth has.

Ristillath.6745:

Team Leaderboards are coming with HoT already got confirmed by anet.

You should inform yourself before posting QQ threads.

OP is asking for a Team LB for PvP.
Expansion giving us Guild/Team LB for Stronghold only, because that’s a “GvG”.

There won’t be a Team/Guild Leaderboard for Conquest.
Thats what OP is asking for.

It’s what I would like to see aswel, tbh.
Not just for Stronghold, their so called GvG.

+1 for a Team Leaderboard for Conquest.

DarkSyze.8627:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Supreme.3164:

All in all I don’t believe that I’m being unfair or overly judgemental here, I can clearly see the counterplay to all other professions, in some case the amount of counterplay some professions (elementalist) receive is..truly staggering..

1 Boon rip spamm on revenant
2 Chill applied to necro specialization auto-attack
3 Celestial nerfed
4 Dmg/sustain nerfs across the board ( removed bountiful power, bolt to the heart, air training etc etc)

And I believe thief is getting a little bit too strong by comparison, therefore a little hint of added counterplay would go a long way

They wont nerf celestial

They said on a stream they would shave the stats with 10 or 15%.

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-Celestial-Meta-It-hurts/page/5—

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Celestial-Ferocity-nerf—

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Impact-on-PVP-with-no-stats-from-traits/first#post5004601—

" Action Always Proves Why Word Mean Nothing "

Im pretty sure they’ll shave the stats, its quite obvious considering the meta shifts every year + the amount of ppl using cele amulet in pvp nowadays

Lordrosicky.5813:

Supreme.3164:

All in all I don’t believe that I’m being unfair or overly judgemental here, I can clearly see the counterplay to all other professions, in some case the amount of counterplay some professions (elementalist) receive is..truly staggering..

1 Boon rip spamm on revenant
2 Chill applied to necro specialization auto-attack
3 Celestial nerfed
4 Dmg/sustain nerfs across the board ( removed bountiful power, bolt to the heart, air training etc etc)

And I believe thief is getting a little bit too strong by comparison, therefore a little hint of added counterplay would go a long way

They wont nerf celestial

They said on a stream they would shave the stats with 10 or 15%.

Zefrost.3425:

Laraley.7695:

Zefrost.3425:

Being able to spam backstab until it hits through a block, a dodge and a blind is no different than if a warrior could spam eviscerate until it successfully hits you.

Why is it ok for thieves to spam backstab? Why don’t we let warriors spam eviscerate then. That would be balanced.

Yes, comparing a skill that’s only available when you’re in stealth and a skill that’s avialable at all times seems like a strong argument.

Stealth is more readily available than a full bar of adrenaline.

Since when do u need full bar of adrenaline to use F1 on warrior? 33% is enough to use F1

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

DarkSyze.8627:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

You’re talking about removing block, I’m talking about removing block while being stealthed, in which case the mistake of the thief is obvious.

I was talking about removing block in stealth, its what we do to remove Aegis before using venom.. It’s a tactic, not a failure.

I can live with 2s reveal after 5s stealth, wouldnt make much of a difference for me.
Remember the reveal bug couple of weeks ago? Was actually fun for me as it was a bit more challenging, despite some traits/combo didnt work anymore.

I am glad you admit it.

I did say “despite some traits/combo’s didnt work anymore”. So in order to make such a change, they’ll need to buff/change some traits overall to make it work together

As long as these changes would not make the reveal, pointless in the end

Well, reveal is already the counterplay this whole thread is asking.
+ the max 5s cap on stealth, that’s 2 x counterplay vs stealth.

So it would only be fair some changes in our advantage would be in order

DarkSyze.8627:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

You’re talking about removing block, I’m talking about removing block while being stealthed, in which case the mistake of the thief is obvious.

I was talking about removing block in stealth, its what we do to remove Aegis before using venom.. It’s a tactic, not a failure.

I can live with 2s reveal after 5s stealth, wouldnt make much of a difference for me.
Remember the reveal bug couple of weeks ago? Was actually fun for me as it was a bit more challenging, despite some traits/combo didnt work anymore.

I am glad you admit it.

I did say “despite some traits/combo’s didnt work anymore”. So in order to make such a change, they’ll need to buff/change some traits overall to make it work together

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

You’re talking about removing block, I’m talking about removing block while being stealthed, in which case the mistake of the thief is obvious.

I was talking about removing block in stealth, its what we do to remove Aegis before using venom.. It’s a tactic, not a failure.

I can live with 2s reveal after 5s stealth, wouldnt make much of a difference for me.
Remember the reveal bug couple of weeks ago? Was actually fun for me as it was a bit more challenging, despite some traits/combo didnt work anymore.

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

This is not true at all, fresh air doesn’t lose to everyone in 1v1 at equal skill level.

DISCLAIMER When talking about 1vs1 I always refer to tPvP and not the duellist server, with rules, bow, wait time for you to recover CD…that’s not 1vs1 worth anybody time because of its unrealistic settings.

The only 1vs1 that count are the ones happening at any given time during a tPvP match

The only way thief can ‘reliably’ kill a fresh air is due steal + panic strike proc, nothing more, nothing less.

And Fresh Air eles can win 1v1 in tpvp matches too, you know.. And since we’re talking about this realistically: what good thief would waste his refuge + heal + rune proc + steal for just 1 fresh Air ele in a 1v1? (in a match)

As I don’t agree with the fact that fresh air cannot win any duels (And I’m not talking about a dueling server), I also don’t agree fresh air has an easy time with a thief. It is true that once you’re out of cooldowns it gets harder, but you beat a thief as long as it’s dp. You stand basically no chance against s/d thief. Assuming it’s a ps thief, it’s not really so much about wasting SR since you can easily recharge it with Improvisation. A duel between a thief and fresh air is basically a war ‘’who procs first’’.

I agree with S/D having an easier time.

D/P (even Panic Strike) has a hard time vs fresh Air. Although improvisation is a random proc. It does NOT return cd of a skill you want. If u used refuge and use steal, its not 100% guarantee refuge will be back up. Everyone seems to think it does, but it does NOT. It’s a RNG trait aswel.

Sometimes when Shadowstep and Refuge are used (both deception kind) and Steal after, improvisation does not always give you back the Deception utlities, but the Signet or Venom. Basically, Improvisation is a 25% chance (if not lower when counting utilitiy kinds u do NOT use) to give you back refuge and shadowstep.

I tested this myself

I know that, but you have the option of actually managing your cooldowns and get the proc on SR instead of something else.

How so? Even if SR is the only used utility in your bar, it doesnt guarantee you giving you SR back with improvisation, though. Sometimes Improvisation gives you nothing.

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

This is not true at all, fresh air doesn’t lose to everyone in 1v1 at equal skill level.

DISCLAIMER When talking about 1vs1 I always refer to tPvP and not the duellist server, with rules, bow, wait time for you to recover CD…that’s not 1vs1 worth anybody time because of its unrealistic settings.

The only 1vs1 that count are the ones happening at any given time during a tPvP match

The only way thief can ‘reliably’ kill a fresh air is due steal + panic strike proc, nothing more, nothing less.

And Fresh Air eles can win 1v1 in tpvp matches too, you know.. And since we’re talking about this realistically: what good thief would waste his refuge + heal + rune proc + steal for just 1 fresh Air ele in a 1v1? (in a match)

As I don’t agree with the fact that fresh air cannot win any duels (And I’m not talking about a dueling server), I also don’t agree fresh air has an easy time with a thief. It is true that once you’re out of cooldowns it gets harder, but you beat a thief as long as it’s dp. You stand basically no chance against s/d thief. Assuming it’s a ps thief, it’s not really so much about wasting SR since you can easily recharge it with Improvisation. A duel between a thief and fresh air is basically a war ‘’who procs first’’.

I agree with S/D having an easier time.

D/P (even Panic Strike) has a hard time vs fresh Air. Although improvisation is a random proc. It does NOT return cd of a skill you want. If u used refuge and use steal, its not 100% guarantee refuge will be back up. Everyone seems to think it does, but it does NOT. It’s a RNG trait aswel.

Sometimes when Shadowstep and Refuge are used (both deception kind) and Steal after, improvisation does not always give you back the Deception utlities, but the Signet or Venom. Basically, Improvisation is a 25% chance (if not lower when counting utilitiy kinds u do NOT use) to give you back refuge and shadowstep.

I tested this myself

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

I think the “1vs1” and “cele” cards have been played for long enough now.

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1. In this 1vs1 scenario you assume that the ele has all CD ready, which never happen outside the duel servers. But stop just with the talk, bring a video of you playing fresh air ele at a “no-hotjoin” level, because apparently every other ele out there is bad and need to l2p

NO, fresh air was unviable way before cele was buffed, when it was the last time a team with a fresh air in it, won a major tournament?

This is not true at all, fresh air doesn’t lose to everyone in 1v1 at equal skill level.

DISCLAIMER When talking about 1vs1 I always refer to tPvP and not the duellist server, with rules, bow, wait time for you to recover CD…that’s not 1vs1 worth anybody time because of its unrealistic settings.

The only 1vs1 that count are the ones happening at any given time during a tPvP match

The only way thief can ‘reliably’ kill a fresh air is due steal + panic strike proc, nothing more, nothing less.

And Fresh Air eles can win 1v1 in tpvp matches too, you know.. And since we’re talking about this realistically: what good thief would waste his refuge + heal + rune proc + steal for just 1 fresh Air ele in a 1v1? (in a match)

Supreme.3164:

NO ,a fresh air build does not beat a thief of equal skill in a 1vs1 scenario, as matter of fact at equal level of skill, a fresh air lose to everything in 1vs1.

Wat? xD

Lukas.7159:

How to kite properly, especially using the terrain
How to rotate properly
Which target to pick in a teamfight
Counting respawn time on enemies
Calling CC + Immo
Giving calls (things like you are low life and may drop soon or this target is low or if you see an enemy going for your close node etc etc)
Teleport Spots

yeah thats all that comes into my mind atm, faking 5am here :<

They are good suggestions but I think they’re a bit too big of an topic to discuss in one video. Rotations especially, thousands of situations can be discussed here.

Giving calls, what target to pick, teleport spots is good

Darksteel.8412:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

I respect you as a player but thats totally wrong in any way possible.
How many games do you have on Thief, I wonder? Can you play it well like it should rotation and mechanically wise?

Thief has a much lower error margin than any cele build + dps guard (in 1v1 and teamfights)

Either you need to consider having a good thief in your team to counter opponent’s thief or you must be doing something wrong.

Never had a problem vs comps with thieves at all, except vs very good thieves & teams, who can actually peel for their Thief.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks..

If you’re looking at it this way, I think thief has a good amount of counters, considering over 60-70% of the community is running this in teams and certainly 80%+ in ESL/Top Tier play:

• Cele Shoutbow
• Cele Engi
• DPS Guard
• Cele Ele + 2nd Cele Shoutbow
• Thief and/or Mes (instead of Cele Ele or 2nd Shoutbow)

= that’s already 3 to 4 to 5 counterplayers for one single person, which is the opponent Thief

Thieves can’t fight head-on 1v1 for a point vs 90% of the meta builds while most other classes/builds actually can.

If the problem is that thief can disengage too easily, I would honestly say its in your advantage (match-wise)

Some builds have way less counters, really.

uhm thing is…zerker thief forces kind of all other zerker classes out of the game…meaning this: we don’t always want to play cele spec’s on other classes to stand a chance…we want fastpaced zerker builds as well and be viable on them…you’re just coming up with reasons to why thief is “fair” so it can be the only viable zerker build….tbh idc about cele builds but I have to cause of zerker thieves

The most common reason why teams have a thief is because mobility, not necessarily because he can counter enemy mesmer..

Oh and DPS guardian is actually best zerker, able to win 1v1 vs every burst out there.
Also, Fresh Air can deal with a thief 1v1 easily. Thing is, fresh air is just NOT viable in the current passive condi play territory /ohai cele!

It’s not thief’s fault other zerkers arent optimal, certainly not since we see an increase of burst mesmers on EU (GS/s-t), which wouldnt make sense if thieves are pushing everyone out, which is not the case.

ChoChoBo.6503:

There are players that have accidentally turned off red circles, and been playing so long that they don’t know its there. Make sure you have that option on, I don’t even know why it’s an option to toggle.

Are you talking about enemy AoE circles?