Guild Wars 2

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Travlane.5948:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Travlane.5948:

ok so i run p/d last 2 weeks in wvw and now with the addition of torment on shadow strike i dropped blinding powder for infil signet and scale venom for shadow refuge….obv not as balanced butwanted to see how a duel would go.

first 7 seconds of one particular fight : CND——Scale venom +Sneak Attack——dodge roll his attack——shadowstrike—-steal (2 sec stun 2 boons vigor at 1500 range)——shadow strike——infil signet——-shadowstrike——— GG

this cause in that 7 seconds or so he had:

3 x stacks of vulnerability
8 x stacks of bleed (rounded down as some ended)
2 x stacks of blind
1 x stack of Poison
9 x stacks of wsTorment (550 per sec per stack. 550 more if moving)

fight was over quick….trick is to obviously time the gapclosers same way you would CND/STEAL combo but slightly faster.

idk thought it was interesting.

It’s hard to believe that to be a duel since whoever you are dueling didn’t even try to defend themselves. :/

it was only 1 duel…not every duel ends up like that. but i got luck wher the steal broke his heal and 2 secs of stun is enough time to follow the rest. especially when they dont timedodges right.

Still not believable, sorry. I can’t think of any profession that will simply die in a duel after 7s. I can understand if you down them in 2-3 seconds like how Backstab+Mug combo used to be able to pull off because that way they have no time to react — but 7s without reaction is simply fictional.

ill record some duels and hoepfully i can replicate it. i wont MAKE it happen but if it happens ill show you. or atleast one thats close. when i say 7 secs it wasnt like i was counting. it felt pretty close to about that. and it was a warrior. not sure what kinda build. wasnt full glass wasnt high defense either. idk.

swinsk.6410:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Travlane.5948:

the particular build i run…and well for that matter most condi builds can add 7 condis on in the first 2-3 seconds.

But they’ve completely blown their conditions on you initially. Bring Infusion of Shadow and stealth immediately afterward, then restart the fight and play smart while watching your conditions.

If you are going to run a shadow arts build in tpvp you are not going to be contesting a point or pressuring an enemy in stealth. In wvw or hot joins, sure. Tpvp, no.

You give up too much damage and rely on stealth for healing condi removal which allows the other team to cap points on you and simply ignore you. The other team wants you to stealth because that means they are putting pressure on you and you can’t do anything beneficial in stealth.

oh sorry i was strictly thinking wvw for some reason. now it makes a lil more sense. tpvp/spvp build lol .

swinsk.6410:

1. Guardian, every team needs one to sit on a point.
2. Necro, aoe condi spam and lots of cc.
3. Engi, tons of aoe condi spam.
4. Ranger, lots of team condi and revives with spirit build, the new ranger meta.
5, Mesmer, best aoe burst in game.
6. Ele, can be decent bunker or decent burst. Solid all around class.
7-8. Warrior and thief, both can be burst or condi but burst no longer implies insta gib and both condi builds are a joke compared to necro and engi. While both can apply pressure to 1 target, the rest have of classes have way better team support.

I’m not talking about hot joins here. I destroy noobs in hot joins. I’ve 2 shorted guardians in hot joins because they are running some messed up build and don’t react fast enough.

In taking about playing tpvp. Thieves just aren’t that great anymore.

i agree. my list is diff. b ut i take the best thief i ever saw the best guard i ever saw the best mesmer i ever saw and i try to grade them that way. not on average from what i see but the potential. if most people play a build to 75% potential and 100% would be overpowered but u wouldnt know it bc its rarely seen.

mesmer and ele can be way OP in spvp and wvw depending on who is playing them.

then again if they arent like that top .01% of players than its fine.

every CND = Blind + Vulnerability + Bleeding

i also keep poison up 80% of the time

and cripple twice per fight

and torment is up half the fight.

yes sometimes bleeding will get removed but with so many ways of going invis u reapply 5-8 stacks every 4 seconds.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Not true. Condition duration also benefits from traits that go something like, “+10% damage against bleeding foes”.

Bleed is so easy to apply that even with 0% condition duration, you can still take advantage of that bonus in damage.

Again, if the condition deals damage, you want it shorter duration but potent.

You don’t have to sacrifice one to get the other, though.

It’s not sacrificing if you don’t pick it up in the first place. If you are using raw damage with S/D, sure you want Condition Duration so that your Vulnerability will last longer. But if you are Condition Damage build with P/x…building Condition Duration is a waste. The +25% Condition duration from DA should be enough.

Travlane.5948:

dont you think that higher duration = more time invis while conditions do dmg.

build 1 (condition dmg no duration) CND sneak attack….. CND sneak attack

build 2(condition dmg and duration) CND sneak attack CND CND CND sneak attack

so to speak

It can also mean that if you don’t end the fight sooner, you are risking a chance that their skills will go out of CD and finish you off instead.

I admit, it makes me giggle seeing all the numbers like fountain off their head, but the longer the fight is, the worst it may turn out on you.

most duels i rarely end up using more than 2 utilities. trying to go to fast with condi can leave you without an ace up your sleeve too tho. idk the traits i saw him on dont really help that much and the power doesnt help the direct dmg too much either.

the particular build i run…and well for that matter most condi builds can add 7 condis on in the first 2-3 seconds.

unless ur getting back 2 init per second on average i dont belive its enough to keep up.

2 extra per 10 seconds
2 extra per invis (basically every 5 seconds at best …more like 7-8)
3 extra per steal (2 per minute)

GIVEN: 16 seconds to regen 12 init.

takes 8 seconds or so to use all your initiative (generally speaking)
this means you get 3.25 full regens without add ons which means we have a total of 52 INITIATIVE that is spendable. now lets add in the 2 per invis lets say that happens every 8 seconds with s/d so tthats like 7 times per minute for another 14 initiative. add on 6 extra for 2 steals (3 each) for a GRAND TOTAL of 72 initiative.

now how does that break down to condi removal per minute?
well lets see the main skills are 5 3 2 right? rarely 5 but still. lets say per minute this happens

CND 1 or 2 times —- 12 init
FS about 7 —-- 21 init
LS about 7——- 14 init
IS about 7 —-— 21 init
SR about 7 —-— 14 init

this here is about 82 initiative a lil more than we estimated so this is pretty close to what happens per minute i think but obviously less in a real fight where people take their times etc. anyway thats only 7 condis gone per minute. 10 if u add shadow return on SS. so i personally dont consider this reliable.

this for you

#DoMath

yes i do. i just dont consider 2 condis removed for basically all of your initiative a “condi removal” build or trick or foundation etc. dont get me wrong its better than nothing but it kinda does nothing when it removes blind or vulnerability or cripple (most of which are only a few seconds long anyway) and bleed , burning, chill and the dmging ones remain. thats why i always won aganist s/d on my condi build bc after the first 10 seconds they run out and dont have enough to keep up.

warrior is 2nd to worst in spvp in my opinion. s/d is decent but not having much condi removal can hurt…i mean our best condi removal other than shadowstep is on stealth….stealth is bad in spvp and youlose caps if you decide to use it.

IMO the top classes for spvp are : (and these are changeable +1 or -1)

1- Guardian
2-Mesmer
3-Necromancer
4-Engineer
5-Ranger
6-Elementalist
7-Warrior
8-Thief

7 and 8 are interchangeable
5 and 6 are interchangeable
2 and 3 are interchangeable

im not even getting credit for evon. i am in the same event as i did with the kiel buff and did t1 t2 t3 t4 solo
….now that im in evon i cant even get credit for t1. 50 kills 0 stolen = silver and no achivement?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Travlane.5948:

ok so i run p/d last 2 weeks in wvw and now with the addition of torment on shadow strike i dropped blinding powder for infil signet and scale venom for shadow refuge….obv not as balanced butwanted to see how a duel would go.

first 7 seconds of one particular fight : CND——Scale venom +Sneak Attack——dodge roll his attack——shadowstrike—-steal (2 sec stun 2 boons vigor at 1500 range)——shadow strike——infil signet——-shadowstrike——— GG

this cause in that 7 seconds or so he had:

3 x stacks of vulnerability
8 x stacks of bleed (rounded down as some ended)
2 x stacks of blind
1 x stack of Poison
9 x stacks of wsTorment (550 per sec per stack. 550 more if moving)

fight was over quick….trick is to obviously time the gapclosers same way you would CND/STEAL combo but slightly faster.

idk thought it was interesting.

It’s hard to believe that to be a duel since whoever you are dueling didn’t even try to defend themselves. :/

it was only 1 duel…not every duel ends up like that. but i got luck wher the steal broke his heal and 2 secs of stun is enough time to follow the rest. especially when they dont timedodges right.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

@OP

First of all, you should only go for Condition Duration if the condition is non-damage condition, like Vulnerability. You suffer the loss of damage if your conditions are cut short due to condition duration reduction and condition removals.

Second, compare your build to this one (my modified version of your build);
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlcmKPXay5E+JFBXBn6z4riVnBNfZXhrC-jwyAYtBRTLApKQUBYKBQKsIasVzioxqkDkmBTlqU7RWWtUAQsGA-e

In this build,
- my Bleed duration is shorter but ticks for 109.6dmg/sec (looking at Caltrops)
- Your build ticks for 106.9dmg/sec

- my Vital shot deals 112.5dmg/sec
- Your Vital shot deals 104.8dmg/sec

- my Torment deals 87.9dmg/sec
- Your Torment deals 80.75dmg/sec

So if your duration is shortened, you’re total condition damage is crippled.

naphack.9346:

I should slap you for putting 25 into deadly arts in a non-venom build.
Getting 25 deadly arts and grabbing garbage traits just for the condition duration is simply a waste of trait points.

This guy is no narrow-minded that he failed to see the +250 added to power spec-ing 25pts into DA.

I agree that the chosen major traits are awful, but I would keep 25pts into DA.

Your traits are fine, you just need to optimize your gears.

dont you think that higher duration = more time invis while conditions do dmg.

build 1 (condition dmg no duration) CND sneak attack….. CND sneak attack

build 2(condition dmg and duration) CND sneak attack CND CND CND sneak attack

so to speak

purgatoryz.6038:

Travlane.5948:

zach….use sneak attack in shadow refuge…not daggerstorm. its almost guaranteed 10-12 hits before it ends or whatever. daggerstorm is only gonna hit that much if you have 10 people around.

and be careful u are goign to get alot of trolls now. everytime i see a p/d post i see the same few coming in here hating on it. “noob build” “no effectivity” “horrible” " you suck" :P show a video and ull see.

Trav, you are a bit behind the times. Condi builds have been the new meta for a while (long before you made your “best WvW post”). The forums lag behind the “next big thing” type of builds, usually by quite a while. The recent P/D #3 buff just forced the issue. If anything, we all agree that P/D and D/D condi builds have a place, everyone just has different opinions about the armor.

Personally, I wouldn’t use rabid armor. I’d split it between carrion/shaman/apoth. For trinkets, the ascended unnamed/rabid are probably the best pure condition build items we have access to, with only 18 wasted stats in precision.

Still, build looks fun!

i have been playing d/p and p/d for about idk 6 months. :P idk how far behind the times i can get but yeah. i actually got the inspiration from wild bills first video who i talk to on occaison…i made his a lil more tanky by going 5 0 30 30 5 …where as he dropped the vitaltity for more power/killign capability. when i said ive been using p/d build for 2 weeks…i mean the unorthadox build 10 0 30 0 30 that i made and as viking jorun said the only thing that screams condi about this build is my carrion armor. now alot of peole are playing it :P scratches head

swinsk.6410:

OP classes like necro, guardian, engi, ranger.

Thieves are looking like bottom of the barrel to me in spvp. I still prefer thief for wvw roaming.

In spvp our burst is not high enough to take out bunkers.
Stealth builds are fairly pointless because bunkers will win the point on a far point push and hold it while it may take thief over a minute to kill said bunker if he can at all.
Condi builds are a joke in comparison to necro or engi.

We can’t do anything with shadow arts build.
Burst is negated by bunkers and easily countered by necros and engis.
Condi is a joke.

Also, 4 reveal to boot. I am pretty sure anet gave up on this class a long time ago.

even roaming we arent number 1 without a doubt. its arguable. i see mesmers wreck theives alot…engineers too sometimes ….even zerk guards do it.

ok did he become visbile THEN attack or attack while he was invis? we cant answer unless we know that

how long was he stealthing for?
what weapon set?
did he use the same attack everytime or was it different kinds?
if you Cloack and dagger at the very moment stealth ends you go back in stealth.

need more info to help

oh … why not drop exposed weakness for sleight of hand?

zach….use sneak attack in shadow refuge…not daggerstorm. its almost guaranteed 10-12 hits before it ends or whatever. daggerstorm is only gonna hit that much if you have 10 people around.

and be careful u are goign to get alot of trolls now. everytime i see a p/d post i see the same few coming in here hating on it. “noob build” “no effectivity” “horrible” " you suck" :P show a video and ull see.

idk why 1 v 1 is always brought up. overpowered basically means that in an instance where most classes would perform like X ….this class performs well above that and with relative ease. There is little drawback to playing such and anyone without any skill can play such. its not just numbers or 1 v 1. if u look at it….necro/guardian is OP in group / zerging but underpowered in 1 v 1. same with thieves. used to be OP in dueling but waaay underpowered in groups.

ok so i run p/d last 2 weeks in wvw and now with the addition of torment on shadow strike i dropped blinding powder for infil signet and scale venom for shadow refuge….obv not as balanced butwanted to see how a duel would go.

first 7 seconds of one particular fight : CND——Scale venom +Sneak Attack——dodge roll his attack——shadowstrike—-steal (2 sec stun 2 boons vigor at 1500 range)——shadow strike——infil signet——-shadowstrike——— GG

this cause in that 7 seconds or so he had:

3 x stacks of vulnerability
8 x stacks of bleed (rounded down as some ended)
2 x stacks of blind
1 x stack of Poison
9 x stacks of wsTorment (550 per sec per stack. 550 more if moving)

fight was over quick….trick is to obviously time the gapclosers same way you would CND/STEAL combo but slightly faster.

idk thought it was interesting.

stof.9341:

Thieves outdps warriors but cannot give might stacks and fury like a warrior does. And a buffed warrior does more DPS than an unbuffed thief.

Does the Ranger they use give fury stacks himself? Because with 2 clusterbomb spammers, a single warrior fire field is probably enough to cap might stacks so all that’s missing is fury.

i think you said this wrong. warriors cannot buff stacks of might like a thief. and a buffed thief does more than an unbuffed warrior.

Drtrider.6314:

Lokheit.7943:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The only thing that Shadow Strike Torment will do is to act like a patch, so that it gets removed first before your bleed stacks.

And isn’t that great? I already put 5 conditions on target, but not every P/D build does and protecting your bleeds with anything is a good idea

Bleeds are removed first no matter what I believe. But a little extra damage other then bleeds is a nice change no doubt.

not always…..it seems random to me.

well running 10 0 30 0 30 with scorp wire. its a hella time to fight 2x scorp and 1x stun for 2 secs….even with stun breaks.

even if torment makes somebody nervous/pressured thats great and does wonders. a patch is even better. plus not everyone has condi removal. i dont mind if people remove my bleeds. unless ur d/p u have no chance of doing it over and over.

yeah true fade…thats a very good point. im wondering that too bc they dont have any specific type of increase duration for torment so chances are it falls under another type. hrm thats a good question.

what exactly defines as a troll spec?

srry to ask a stupid question that i am pretty sure i know the answer to . but since its a new skill ill ask anyway. torment can be increased with condi duration buffs/runes/foods skills right?

ryokoalways.3450:

d/p s/d still works in WvW. s/d is just a bit more situational than before, but I personally feel it still provides more utility than any other available weapon set. IS is still good for movement (chained together with your teleport of choice and steal, you can close anywhere from 2700-3200 range in a split second) and as an immob, and boon steal is always good to have. Also, you won’t lose your opener because you can just start with IS > CnD > weapon swap > BS, and you are on d/p for the primary part of the fight, just as normal.

i agree with this entire post. so in your way of explaining it s/d IS def 100% usable in wvw. BUT only as an opener or a quick adjustment to a situation that is few between. like basically its a d/p set with s/d backup. ur running d/p 90% of the fight…its not a s/d build. so in essence of saying s/d…..s/d is not really a great build for wvw….unless u qualify it as a backup to d/p…. it IS a good thing those 2 builds can run interchangable. my wvw build for d/p is 0 30 20 20 0 and s/d fits as my 2ndary but rarely gets action for more than a sec.

wish.1027:

S/D is amazing, dont listen to the bads who need to L2P. It lets you win against boon bunker builds without a lot of hassle or spending 10 minutes fighting them waiting for them to make a mistake. I dont even run a build set up to use S/D, I use a (10/30/30/0/0) D/D build, it’s my offhand and still works perfectly fine, you just need to know what youre doing.

s/d is quite amazing. but this guy is talking wvw tho. diff ball game.

who proclaimed i was a guru? i didnt.

dr yamak. also stop following me its kind of creepy. u have no facts …. no skills…no video. you ahve nothing but troll comments. hater

this is going to help my p/d sooooooo much! i actually use this alot in melee fights…guardians…rangers then steal back to them for cnd then sneak attack then shadow strike again

folly dragon has the combo….not sure id run infil signet over blindpowder/shadrefuge tho.

i personally believe there is 3 issues that have changed this. people have gotten wiser/experienced….they have gotten stronger thru the buffs anet gives them on patches and thief is always progressively worse/nerfed.

to put it in an easier way of understanding. its like thief having an overall rating of 9 in 1v1 and lets say necro a 6. they nerfed thief a lil and necro buff a lil so now thief is 7.5 in 1 v 1 and necro is 8. these numbers are not real but just an example of how the swing is happening. the only buff thieves REALLY got makes any difference is larcenous strike / f s combo…….other than that each patch is hurt us. we still have options but i wouldnt be able to comfortably say we are assassination specialists anymore…..and since we are not great in groups…or atleast everyone would fill our spot much better. not sure if u should hang it out. wait til the next big patch to decide. i have a feeling thief might be getting some love his way.

i play p/d…..my style is more s/d or d/d but those just dont really work well in wvw with the goals i have in mind so im stuck with p/d. try stay strong and optimistic.

viking stop following me . seriously its getting creepy. really.

he just got bad to the game. he is wvw player and im not the only person to say that sword is dead in wvw. really. do me a favor. u wanted to act mature and not call each other names fine. stop trolling me / other players. keep turning down a duel bc of ur “video graphics card” . and stop msging in response to me.

and kylar. NEVER conform. do what makes you happy and what you have fun with. just make sure you have a way of dealing with zergs. if u need practice or something im me in game.

viking you should duel the first guy that accepted a challenge on here. hes good

LightningBlaze.4913 we went halfsies roughly on about 15 duels. see how u match up lol.

right on swinsk…. but make sure u have a get away (shadow ref or shadow trap) for when those larger groups come!

t6 mats are going to double in price. ……. everything is going to need t6’s right now bc for 500 craftign…for precursor weapons crafting….weapon crafting…armor crafting…. the need is going to easily double ….so unless they increase drop rate teh price will follow.

wel are still decent at 1v1 … prolly tied for 2nd with mesmers behind arguably s/d ele. hard to say. everything else we are i the bottom 2 of.

i have 160 and spent like 30 so i would just save em for when ascended armor/weapons come out. i imagine that getting alot of armor and weapons is going to cost like 60-80 laurels per character so save em up! dont spend them or ull prolly b sorrY!

well it was like 125%….. but its not needed over 100%….some say it does more some says its doesnt some say it does less even tho that bug was removed. id have to test to make sure. buy yeah under the perfect situation you could come close to90k backstab. would never happen eever while roaming :P but still

check out p/d build of mine 10 0 30 0 30 long reach sleight of hand ricochet …restis obviously (no init gain…its not needed) works great in 1 v 1 1 v x and z v z

s/d is kinda dead in wvw now :/ without the old s/d…..its really hard to have escape possiblities. check out the new shadow trap.

old video. :P we no longer have stun break on command. nerfed. i used to run this build with a few twirks:) its fun

KD is way better than stun lol

yeah i know that.

bottom line: what we see in game is not what is actually happening. LAG? i dont know? bug? i dont know. is it normal? def not.

i think i have to agree here. i always said TS need more dmg …not as much as bs but atleast a 4500 hit for zerk build.

mesmers dont bother me unlesss its pvp. then i hate teh condi phants build

CTRL+RIGHT CLICK the skill

see if that helps

so u press HIS during dodge?

really i figred it gave you about .25 secs tops….still leave HIS open
but idk ill go take a closer look

@excalibur…huh? how doesthat help HIS>? they can still hit u while HISing

like i said ive never lost to a sword using in wvw….only one i ever lost to was an amazing duelist so :P. i carry 3 blinding skills in my utilies…3 invis….3heals….1 stun breaks and TG or DS. and 3 of them also remove 2 condis. the blinds the p/d uses are just as strong oon the s/d user as they are on himself. save your stun for the HIS….about half of p/d use HIS. you also need high dodges….u prolly dont have much stealth on demand for condi removal or any at all depending on your build so you really need to dodge those sneak attacks. also with my build i Kinda have 3 stun breakers. 2 on SS….and 1 on steal. steal of mine causes a 1500 range 2 sec stun. if i stun my opponent for 2 secs my stun wears of with enough time to use CND and sneak attack. just a heads up.