Played D/D since release, I’m not experiencing any problems with C&D, the only time it fails is if I’ve triggered a stealth trap.
Watched your vid Travlane and you are trying to cloak while revealed is still up, thats not lag, just bad timing. TBH you just played really badly, the first immune you threw a junk while in stealth that revealed u and then you tryed to cloak immediantly, and the 2nd immune was because you attacked with cloak while in stealth…
0_o i have a 50 to 1 kill death ratio…….roughly give or take….. 6250 achievement points…… full hall…..legendary (almost 3)…..3k hours logged on thief……5 suites of armor….10 weapon sets…. 4 lvl 80s…..(only the important ones
lol) anyone not a bragging session my points is i know kitten well what timing is. i can get CND to go off with stealth so fast it seems like revealed is still on.
what you are seeing in a video is not what we are seeing while playing. i have been on thief for 9 months and have pretty much mastered every build (other than p/p) so all the sudden complaining about a bug like this or maybe its lag or bottle necking information from game to desktop/laptop is debateable. what i do know is its not a L2P issue. many experienced thieves are having this problem. it is 100% on anets end.
@DRyamak
“No, I cant flip a camp half as fast, I can flip it TWICE as fast if not more. Yes it can be proven in video, we all saw the one you posted I can guarantee you I don’t even get downed unlike you.”
this was said in your post….maybe it was quoted or edited incorrectly idk. but it seems like a response…i didnt see anyoen elses name near it.
Now i understand all about you, you inadequate, completely . That was reply of Tonikor to you.
“you inadequate” i think you mean i am inadequate….and also need to qualify that…. in what sense?
ok then it was from tonikor. i thought it was you who said it. no big deal…either way you are correct it is clinical. all the facts and evidence says i was right. not one piece of evidence says other wise. opinions are irrelevant in clinical matters.
s/d has no chance srry yamak. d/p …well i guess it dpeends on both players. if d/p is overly agressive itl oses…. same with p/d.
Prove it. Just one duel. As for d/p you need to c&d off something to do your pew pew, but sometimes. you know you just cant do this. In wvw all p/d thiefs start to run to nearest pack of mobs cause – c&d miss, c&d miss, what a crap-need to find rabbit or rat to c&d off. But in custom arena no rats and your lovely rabbits, and you know this . You say that d/p inferior to p/d so why you cant kill it? Of course you can, but why you afraid to prove it? Cause you just little pug with some huge pretends, sorry to disappoint you all of your pretends silly.
wow…ok lol..where do i start on this mess of ideas.
1) re-read the title….
2) read it again lol….
3) yes this build works in wvw with a slight change of 2 traits and 2 utils
4)i would be more than happy for a duel. actually i prolly have some footage of a s/d and me fighting somewhere….althought not alot bc its rare to see s/d in wvw.
5)not sure how to respond to the rest as it doesnt make sense? i have huge pretends? your are sorry about my pretends? wtf does that mean?
6) yes s/d is quite inferior in the the context of what i was discussing. s/p too. d/p is close but cant really zerg it up so it comes up short in that department.
7) “as for d/p you need CnD” <——- you said this…… d/p doesnt use CND
anytime u want a duel ill put you on video. let me know not one troll / hater has accepted the challenge yet.
also the first lag looks more like a vid freeze and cut some footage as you did quite alot of dmg in those 2.5 seconds and also went back up to full health. videos dont freeze. when u lag the camera catches it all. never happens like that. i think u cut footage out. hence why A ) you wont do the camp without a cornball trick and
you wont even make another video with a timer you are a fake…a cheat…a trickster….and you got beat
i understand you had a few more. i also didnt funnly mine in. what can be done? cheap tricks? ok u need qualifiers for your build to work. mine just works. i dont need to “enter at the right angle” i dont need to"funnel pathing" i dont need to “pull half the camp at a time” i rock it out like a boss. u get it done cheap. period. its inferior. period. show me you can do it without tricks. i did my camp without any_
So in short:
- I start at 00:12. At 00:40 the dolly dies and I lose like 6 seconds getting to the claimer, which dies at 01:05.By my math I took 18 seconds to kill the claimer plus 28 to kill the rest, not to mention never being below 90% hp
Thats a total of 46 seconds to kill MORE TARGETS than you and without having the claimer there to take the aoe damage from sigil of fire, daggerstorm+bleeddmg and throw gunk.
I’d say it would probably cut more than 6 seconds from the total. So yeah, how exactly is your “best overall wvw build” the quote “hands down best camp flipper” again?
the dollys i dont have to hit. 1 caltrops = more than enough dmg to kill dollys but i do hear what urs ayign there. but u activate trick shot at 4 and hit it at 5. why dont u go find another camp? or is it only that one u can do? i can do it to any
fact 1 : u still cant make or show me a video of d/p or s/d getting into a zerg fight and actually fighting….other than on an edge picking on a solo lamby
fact 2: u cant flip a camp without a cheap trick and choosing camp where u can trick the games AI into a poor pathing and to kill them that way. i can run into a camp whenever where ever and however i want and still get teh same result.
so next time u say “d/p is better or as good as p/d flipping a camp” make sure you put the qualifying asterisk below it * only if i funnel them into a pathing trick/cheat otherwise not going to happen*
again check mate bwahah
very clearly at the 5.25 mark of your video or 5.5 latest you hti with your trick shot. same at 1:05:25 mark the last hit and exp came up. i stopped i there.
the first hit in my video was 1 second in…but i started at 0 bc i activated daggerstorm so there wouldnt be any disagreement. i really try to be unbiased. but if i count when urs started i could say 4 secs bc u activated trick shot then. so i guess we shoudl faily add 1 sec extra to my video win time? mm? aslo he literally dies at 53.25 on my vid so the total time would be 51.75 to your 61 seconds. but not gonna nickle dime it. won fair and square. anyway shall we move on and disprove another one of yoru comments?
BTW mine was 1 try. i could get around 40 secs if u really want. no mistakes and all.
gap closers? ok…..here goes….. gap closers are close to equal but p/d edges it out. heres why. infil strike is a ONE TIME 600 range shadow step gap closer. yes you can return and repeat but its never more than 600 ranger per 15 seconds. at 15 secs the return leaves and u can do it again. most s/d andp/d both use SS so we have 1200 for each build. now we have steal 900 and infil strike 600 for s/d thats 1500 range on almost an instant. now we have 1500 on steal and a 2 sec stun on 20 secs (only 5 more than infil strike) and this is literally and instant. so they both have the same gap closers in distance . the only differenc is p/d trades 5 secs for a 2 sec stun and decrease 20% on steal.however we now have 34 sec steal vs a 21 sec steal. hence why p/d is better. you dont even get 2 steals for s/d but you get 3 per min for p/d . lets total this up shall we. in ONE MINUTE of time…. s/d has infil strike 600(4times per minute) SS 1200(1x per minute) and steal 900 (just call it 2x per min although its really 1 min 8 secs) thats a total of 5400 range of gap closers per minute. p/d now has steal 1500 (3x per minute) and SS 1200 (1x per minute) for a total of 5700 total range of gap closers per minute. so the only way s/d edges out p/d is if it carries infil signet which is risky in wvw bc u need escape tools for zergs/larger groups. usually in wvw i see s/d use withdraw shadow refuge basilisk venom blinding powder signet of agility.
venom share crap? its the best build a thief can run for its guild/zerg. if u think the radius is too small its bc u have a crap guild. you stay tight and buff up just before battle….i usually do it about 20 secs before battle that way about 30 secs later im using all the venoms i buffed everyone with and the recharge is 10 secs away….so you get 2 rounds of like 30 venoms all within 10-15 seconds. its amazing. yes sb can stay back and ping….but CB is crap now and slow to boot. so sb isnt really helping anyone. s/d and d/p always stay on the edges of zerg fights….as i said before this is a fact. u show me one video of a s/d or d/p in the fray …if u actually can….and ill show you 50 of them stayin on the edges of the battle picking on what they canbc they have to 5 2 2 2 or 3 3 3 3 to avoid being targeted. p/d can just get in there and daggerstorm…caltrops and ricochet sneak attacks easily and survive really well.
about winning against d/p ….yes it should always be a draw….but if u go for the win you die. if u dont we draw. simple as that.
crying lil boy? sounds like ur frustrated ive made all good poitns. videos….challenges and i ahve yet to seeanything of yours backed up. like i said most of all go show me a s/d or d/p vid doing what i said this build could and ill shut up. i relaly havent seen one. ive seen a few 1 v x ing but most of them were ignoring the thief or just really bad. there is no build in the game that can 1 v 5 and win unless the players are horrible. the absolute best that can be done is 1 v 3 .
biased? no. i can play any build. i actually like d/p but got boring bc i do miss hanging out with my guild and didnt wanna have to change to my guard or necro to do it. so my goal was make a build that could do it all…maybe not master anything but atleast be able to 1 v 1 1 v x and zvz without changing anything. ill be waiting for your links to the videos of s/d and d/p doing zerg style laterz kiddo
@ ton….. escaping with s/d is tough granted we assume you arent bringing shadow refuge as most s/d doenst do that. 900 range that is buggy usually doenst get you far enough away especially when most of the time ur more around 500-600 from the start of it. you use it more than once in a fight. getting away? yeah 900 range wont do it. eles get rather than that with RTL and me with 1500 range 2 sec stun….so in a zerg s/d has MUCH less of a chance…actually minimal…of getting away. well assuming the zerg has a few players like warriors who can outspring anyone…or like me with long range stun…or eles with RTL . anyway moving on….
Blind AOE on stealth. i never see any s/d builds run this….i rarely see S/d builds run anything past 20 in SA unless they are going s/d d/p mix….then its usually 0 30 20 20 0 or 0 20 30 20 0 etc. initiative and condi removal comes first for both of these builds. not blind….so being realistic its more of a p/d build trait d/p it would just be overkill bc black powder shot does it all the same. and to waste 6 init on a s/d build for invis is harsh too bc u more want to save init for FS LS to break em down. ok moving on…
Evades? the only difference between the 2 builds is dodge roll returning 10% and shadow return for 5 init. (3+2)…… so realisiticall unless ur nit picking the only difference is infil/return. but then again its ABOUT even bc while as S/D you fight at melee range making you take more dmg naturally than p/d fighting melee range. so p/d actually still takes less damage if 1/2 are range 1/2 are melee players you fight. i guess on the books you would be right. but actually matching it up in combat? no. also the blinds count as 1 evade in my book too bc they basically block 1 attack that WOULD have hit…not just 1 attack that swung. so 1 blind = 1 aegis basically. so in the dmg avoidance dept…p/d wins due to blinds and almost the same amount of dodge rolls and also skill 3 as a gap increaser.
camp flipping? you and me already have a challenge with this. condi vs direct dmg we are going to compare videos so illl just move along….but idk how ur going to spread the dmg out and outdo caltrops plus aoe dmg from my weapons but w.e. we will see.
DPS is a lil different in a dungeon…. its actually the reason they dont take d/d or d/p players…bc of stealth…it decreases DPS. obvious. your backstab is 5500 on average plus about 500 from BPS. so we will say 6k dmg on AVERAGE per roughly 6 seconds to be generous? i mean t5 2 2 2 2 takes about 5 seconds alone but im saying best cases scenario and ill just say 6 secs bc ull prolly ahve 1 maybe 2 auto attacks or MIGHT hit with HS but prolly not sicne auto targeting is off. ok moving on to p/d. p/d hits about 1250 on average (up to 1600) but we will keep it low for the benefit of the argument. so 1250 direct dmg and i keep on average 12-16 stacks but ill say 10 for a round number and to be fair. 10 stacks of bleeding with 1500 condition dmg (not including 250 i would have in wvw for c orruption) is doing a total of 1175 per second. so we do the math 1175×6seconds +1250 direct dmg = 8300 damage. so 8300 vs 5500…almost 2k difference in that short period of time. yes you can condi cleanse and i can put it back on in 2 secs. can also dodge roll BS or block/aegis/blind too. but just saying for the scenario here. thats what i mean by DPS is about the same. i didnt say higher although we could. some fights u go 20 secs without a backstab while wielding d/p …sometimes you get 2 in 10 secs. but on averge they are about the same dps. if d/p had a stun it would be sick (stun on demand. not stun on openign attack with BV)
Its about OVERALL PERFORMANCE and CONTRIBUTION. (caps so you can understand)
yeah i get that do you?
ok so if u know(or in your case think) somethign is not the best all around then you must have an idea of which build or variation of which build is? plz enlighten us. if u dont have an answer than you cant say with any certainty that something isnt. so lets start with that. what is the best overall wvw build ISH for thieves. ill wait for this answer
@tonikor its not bad at kiling siege espeically when there is more than 1 lined up. i have been using ricochet alot lately and its quite phenominal in zerg settings or 1 v x settings. that said i still prefer bountiful theft for 1 v 1 or 1 v 2.
SINCE YOU DIDNT READ WHAT I SAID ABOUT SIEGE ILL PUT IT IN CAPS
READ————READ—————READ—————READ————-READ————-READ———-READ
Given A: Anytime you attack/break siege its almost ALWAYS a larger group setting.
Given B: Damage = Weapon strength * Power * Skill coefficient / Armor
Given C: You CANNOT CRIT ON SIEGE under and circumstance
(estimates)
D/P build : auto attack roughly 40 or so on siege
P/D build : auto attack deals about 30 or so on siege.
if a zerg is hitting a siege you are probably doing around 3-4% of the total dmg with d/p on a best case scenario.
if you are running p/d you are doing probably 1% or less difference from d/p which is basically saving about .00001 seconds of time.
this consquently means that you are bringing up a null point unless you would like to nickle/dime and squabble over such trivial numbers/time.
so to answer your quest yes its a lil tougher with p/d but not so much that you would ever notice….ever.
just to prove a point ill go d/d now we all know thats one of the worst builds out there. but ill run it
ps . when i say worst builds i mean less all around balanced and one of the 2 least played builds.
@kittennit i run p/d p/d sometimes as i can keep my offense even when i switch weapons….this allows me to activate 50% more energy (sigil of energy)….at get free poison (sigil of doom) or free AOE (sigil of hydromancy)….without having to change my strategy. think of it as a free skill every 8 seconds that doesnt at all affect your gameplay and cannot be countered or stopped its quite useful.