Guild Wars 2

Justin ODell.9517:

Simplest answer I can give is that it just isn’t as high a priority as other things we have been working on.

Why do you feel custom arenas do not work for those that want to duel?

You’re right, we simply want to pay monthly for the privilege to duel someone that usually comes standard in AAA mmo’s. Wake up people, the only reason why it’s not in the game is because they want your money by you paying for custom arenas. When the game was first released I still remember threads that begged for dueling and they said they would put it on the “to do” list. 1.5 years later, here we are. It’s almost comical but yet fitting that the developers have access to dueling, and even teased the community with said feature on a live stream as a means to show off the new heals that were being implemented in the game at the time.

I have very low expectations for everything revolving around this game, esp for pvp. It’s the best way not to be disappointed when something new comes along.

Countless

Mesmer – Deceptive Evasion, you have no idea how many builds would open up if this came as a default for the class. It’s not that the trait is op, it’s just that the trait is a necessity to be viable in any way.

Countless

In the ready up the only thing you guys weren’t really detailed about was the list of bug fixes for each class, which is in my opinion is just as meta changing as the new additions to the game. Would you guys be able to relay that information to the community before the patch? Thank you

Countless

Arganthium.5638:

Trigr.6481:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RwKNkwcEZo

^ Yeah you’re right, low survivability.

Countless

I respect you as a player, Countless, but not as a theoretician or a strategist. For a build that was clearly designed totally to be defensive and evasive, my (granted, somewhat superficial, but nonetheless relatively accurate) calculations showed that you had an 82.5% evade uptime. Undoubtedly, that’s pretty high- that’s inarguable. Yet, given that the damage output from that build was virtually nonexistent, and the fact that you had to sacrifice a whole lot of resources (all of your initiative, endurance, heal, and utility). At best, in the context of how little damage/control you had, the lack of defensive ability (inherent in being a thief) outside of evasion, and the huge risk you would run in a match of getting off point and losing ticks on one, I would say that your video shows a great example of a possible bunker build but one that ultimately would be weaker than any bunker guardian build.

Your video shows a build that is severely deficient in damage and point control, and contains serious weaknesses that would be exploitable by any half-decent player. It also lacks the proper ability to stay on-point at any given time. Of course, you could try to establish that this much evasion is a hallmark of thief builds in general. That’s grossly inaccurate; virtually all D/X and P/X builds have absolutely nothing to give them additional evasion on top of base, except, possibly, from Bountiful Theft, but that’s been nerfed to the point where BT’s vigor is highly unreliable. You could go a bit deeper and say that Sword builds have high evasive abilities, but the same thing applies to S/P that applies to D/X and P/X, particularly given that the standard S/P build is 10 30 0 0 30. So the only real weapon set that you can make this argument for is S/D, but S/D is becoming increasingly more uncommon in today’s meta anyways, and S/D builds can’t evade as much as the build you showed could because FS chains into a non-evasive skill (unlike Disabling Shot). Furthermore, that 17.5% “window of opportunity” (and that’s being extremely pessimistic about how large that “window” is, given my previous argument) is much more significant since S/D practically requires high DPS, low stat-survivability in order to word. There’s also the after cast on the auto attack and FS that make the build vulnerable as well. The net result is that you really can’t argue from that video that thief has any efficient level of survivability (certainly not from evasion, and not in sPvP, either).

Haha, the sole purpose of the “poking fun at gw2” video was to take a jab at how much dodge thieves had access too. You’re kinda going overboard with assuming I was trying to make a build for thief just for that video. :P

Countless

Dee Jay.2460:

Yes, Thieves and Mesmer compete for the same roles and yes, Thieves have an easier time applying their damage.

But they also pay a price by having much lower base-line survivability.

Even a glass-cannon shatter Mesmer has a decent base-line survivability thanks to their Illusions and shatter skills. Mesmers are unpopular focus targets for a reason. They also get to apply much of their damage passively, in the form of Phantasms, while being able to do something else for a moment (like revive or stomp).

Mesmers also have their Portal, which means near-instant relocation in the right scenario.

The only defense and 10/30/0/0/30 Thief brings to the table is his offense. When focused they drop much faster than any Mesmer.

Point being, Thief and Mesmers are different classes with different mechanics. Thieves just happen to be more popular and more “workable” in the current meta. But it’s not because they are somehow overpowered or Mesmers are somehow underpowered.

It’s just that the meta has no room for sort of hybrid builds. You’re either as bunkerish as you can be or you are as bursty as can be. And in terms of burst, nothing beats a Thief due to the way the class works.

^ Yeah you’re right, low survivability.

Countless

Power Block will be really good against thieves “Sarcasm Intended”

Countless

derbaer.1284:

I definitly agree there should be new game modes.
With my experiences from WoW Arena, I definitly disagree about 2v2.

What 2v2 will do, is causing new, heavy balancing issues. Balancing is already not been taking care of quickly and thouroughly enough in gw2.

Blizzard has stated pvp balance would be established for 5v5 arena matches, not 2v2. They introduced 2v2 (and 3v3) arenas nevertheless and after months and years of futile attempts of balancing esp. 2v2, they had to turn of rewards for this game mode. I simply cannot believe that anet will succeed in a comparable situation with its game.

Wow and gw2 are two different games, you cannot expect them to have exact results when it comes to what will work and what will not when it comes to deathmatch. Blizzard even admitted that their 2v2 wasn’t balanced, however their 3v3 and 5v5, was. And was even more competitive than 5v5.

Judging from another game is great, but expecting it to be unsuccessful with one game just because it wasn’t with another is a radical assumption at best. The two games have massive differences between them ranging from the classes to the combat. Not to mention gw2 hasn’t even given us a game type to even compare it to wow to begin with. Your “experiences” mean just as much as your assumptions, no offense.

Countless

Cush.4063:

Good video man. I agree. I really hope that they bring in a 2v2 matchmaking. One flaw I see though is with the current matchmaking system and people getting paired up wrong and flame fests ensue.

BUT, it would be a great relief to the game with something brand new and I would take it over anything we have now.
Thanks for the vid.

Well they already said that there are going to be ladders for Conquest soon. However if they were going to release 2v2 then I would be pretty dumb to assume that a ladder wouldn’t be available for it as well.

Countless

Flumek.9043:

Helou.

OLD STUFF, fell free to scroll down
First Id comment on your previous video, the critics on blu shoutcasting. It seemed very bad, almost childish, with it looking mainly like you mostly enjoy sarcasm and making fun out of others. I dissagreed on everything in it. First for the fact, that like it or not, we dont have (m)any other shoutcasters. So untill we see you or some1 better … Second, gw2 is a flustercuck, you can press 10 buttons in a sec but no1 can speak out 10 skills in a sec.
Third, what you wanted was from a players perspective, not from observers. Its best if we compare it to a real sport, football from here. You wanted a analysis players on the same competitive level would recieve, be it from coach or another top player. Like “yo man, lets just use the left-right pass to me- back to u 3x and score with left. nothing ronaldo can do about it cz he plays with right”. What the crowd needs from a comentator is much less in depth, just simple facts, but with built up hype. " Player A pass B , A, theres the chance, SHOOTS!! and misses.." I watch sports/games that I find interesting, without playing them myself. You as a “also competitive” player are watching the games to improve your own gameplay. So I think that because if this different perspective and interests you will be unsatisfied by any shoutcaster who isnt a top player himself. Now if we had a slow-motion replay such step-by-step guide to decision making would be perfect though

Comment on THIS VIDEO, READ HERE
Ok, now that this is behind, I can honestly only praise this video. You put yourself very well into the mind of a casual/new player and adresses the weird and counter-intuitive problems of hotjoin (autobalance, wins being pointless). Great video in short, hope everyone on the Arenanet balance/pvp sector sees it.

2v2 Deathmatch realy seems the way to go. Its easy to find only 1 partner, easy to understand, clear to watch, a rezz is actualy a big play, it allows more “fun” builds. The only problems, why they shouldnt release it tomorrow, are some extreme builds. Bunker vs bunker, minion+spirit, permastealth and PU mesmers, 180s elites… Basicaly how to make the “street rules” official.

When it comes to the shoutcaster program, the only thing I will say is that the process of which to join is pretty bias. I know someone “who’s name I will not indulge” applied for the program, and the reason why they were declined permission to join was not because of their lack of talent or knowledge with the game, but because someone on the inside simply didn’t like the person applying. Talk about counter productive.

But you wouldn’t have known that regardless, so I don’t really blame you.

Countless

Bumping for the sake of common sense

Countless

Sol.4310:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Countless,

Yes, I did say that. I also said in that post that we are investigating ways that we can get proper metrics to reflect the majority of the playerbase. If you knew the amount of players that actually played PvP in our game, then you would understand why a strawpoll with 300 votes is not sufficient.

That’s not to say that we don’t talk about it internally. We talk about it quite a lot.

If the issue was as simple as me making a strawpoll, I’d do it; but it’s not. A very, very small percentage of our playerbase even visit these forums, let alone vote on a poll.

You need to do in-game poll, there is very large amount of players whom refuse to read the forums at all and play PvP.

You guy’s need to check out what Dota 2 does, after I think it’s 3 games they have quick popup and ask you to rate, E.g. how was your team communication. This helps Dota 2 dev’s find where the problems are and work on ways to improve it.

This, or a simple veto system in game would be good.

Countless

Allie Murdock.8152:

Caedmon.6798:

Stop acting like you people do stuff based on player feedback,its BULL.If it is so,we would have proper game modes for pvp by now,balanced pvp and more maps instead of stuff being stripped from pvp.

Yes! Genie, make it so!

In all seriousness… We DO listen to you guys. We can’t snap our fingers and have it all done. That’s just not how game development works, unfortunately.

These things take time. We need to flesh out ideas, brainstorm, iterate, code, script, document, etc. Not all in the order, but you get the idea. There is a process. One that takes time.

We’re not like the sims, where you can just fast forward to the results. We have put a lot of features in this game as a direct result from player feedback.

You listen to the community? Is that why skyhammer is still in the rotation? Also I’ve read a previous post where you responded to a player who did a strawpoll about keeping or deleting skyhammer from the que, and you responded that the number of votes wasn’t sufficient. I guarantee if you made a thread or a strawpoll giving the community the option to get rid of skyhammer, then you would save yourself half of the Spvp threads that would have been littered with posts referring to how much they dislike skyhammer being in solo que.

Countless

Allie Murdock.8152:

My finger hurts just looking at that xD

My brain would hurt even less if Guild Wars 2 actually had a system set up to where you didn’t spend a third of your time opening “rewards”.

Countless

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

But that’s all I’m going to say about the quality of my opponents. I welcome all positive and negative feedback about my own play only.

Your play is only to be as good as the opponents you face. If people are questioning your opposition, then perhaps you need to make a video facing off against some well respected names

Countless

infantrydiv.1620:

Rickster.8752:

So in conclusion. If you want to get a big ego about being “best players Eu/NA” then really I wouldn’t bother. It just makes yourself look like a fool.

This is coming from the dude who I’m pretty sure posted 3 threads advertising that he was the best player in the game because he was rank 1 solo queue leaderboards.

LOL

I enjoy how he responded to two other people but yet didn’t respond to you. Brb getting popcorn.

Countless

BLUna.7928:

Good video. I definitely think there is something that could be built around 2v2, been having some really nice tournaments recently and I think it has potential.

However, with that said I can see reasons they would choose not to implement it right now. Biggest one that comes to mind is if they were to implement it now and have a queue for it it would split the playerbase by a pretty big margin and make queue times a pain with the current population of PvP. They talked about this about a year ago when there was a lot of talk for implementing an unranked and ranked queue and they gave similar reasons for not doing it at the time.

I could see some other issues with an automated 2v2 system as well. People going in with troll stalemate comps (double bunker guard, 2 permastealth chars, etc that would cause the game to go on for eons) would be a big issue IMO. There would need to be some sort of secondary mechanic or something to discourage stalemating if the objective was just going to be “kill your opponents,” but perhaps that’s something that could be discussed in this thread.

Another thing to consider too is that at the moment they seem to be rather focused on fixing the rewards system. If DM was to be brought in on Tuesday (for argument’s sake) we would get a crap load of people coming back to the game to try it out, but in the long run of things the issues with the rewards system is still there and could drive quite a few people away again if they have nothing to strive for.

I definitely think it’s something that should be implemented, but maybe as something that the players can grow first, instead of just making it right into a separate queue. Perhaps give us the ability to turn off points and edit custom arenas to work for a DM mode (we can sort of do it now but it’s very makeshift).

Overall though good video, thanks for it.

Personally I feel that the only way this game would come back is through a boxed expansion. Regardless if you were to come out with all the content in the world, it’s meaningless because you can’t market a patch to non existing players. That being said if they were to come out with 2v2, that would be the way in which it should be done. And I would happily pay for it. However I would hope that there would be more game modes alongside it with ladders attached to them. And no, the whole “splitting the player base” is completely wrong. If the pvp community is already on its hands and knees then that’s the whole point of a boxed expansion is to bring more non existing players in.

The people who have already quit have done so because of either lack of content, lack of incentive, lack of balance, or all three. Even if the content is amazing, you may only get the pre existing players back in because it’s easy to jump back into a non subscription game once you own it. But that being said many of those players have already had enough with the way arena-net deals with things. And honestly I don’t blame them. People will only put up with so much kitten before they just toss it without a second thought.

Arena net needs market new game modes and new content towards new players who haven’t picked up the game yet. So if they do their job right then the numbers will equal itself out. And besides your argument is flawed because you assume that people are only going to stick to one game type. There are still many people that enjoy conquest and would still play it. But as I said in my video a smaller scale game mode is needed if the larger scale game modes are to be successful, because you would have the population to support conquest on a large competitive scale since you brought them in through smaller scale content that is easily accessible. And whether you want to believe it, the population base is crumbling in on itself in Spvp. This is honestly the best solution to the problem.

Countless

Just my thoughts on what needs to happen concerning new game modes and also discussion of the new pre existing types of play in gw2. Link to the video is above, let me know your thoughts in the comments below and or in the video itself. Thanks

Countless

Leeto.1570:

This is most balanced mmorpg there is on market.

LMAO……..Yeah, the player base really speaks for itself and backs you up with that claim. You should just stop.

Countless

DiogoSilva.7089:

I like their “shaving” philosophy

Kinda like how they shaved warriors to the position they are currently?

Countless

Thedenofsin.7340:

Trigr.6481:

Personally I just play super casual now. There is no need anymore to care for something in which they clearly do not have the resources to care in return. Just expect the worst and you won’t be let down. Find another game to fill the time, until A-net catches up, if ever.

Countless

Good point. No one should be using the cash shop anymore. Why support a game that doesn’t support its players?

Any suggestions on which game?

Personally I pre-ordered Titanfall, so I’ll be streaming that the day it’s released. I’m a Fps fanatic at heart so It will be nice to get back into that realm. Mmo’s for me mean the community, but personally I cannot stay in a game where the community and the balance is both lacking. What kept me in wow for so long was the community, after so long any 1 game will eventually get stale like wow has for me personally. I’ll keep gw2 on the back-burner and just wait it out at this point.

I’ll probably play gw2 just in case, before any changes to clone on death happen. Might as well get that last ounce of fun in before they destroy my build completely.

Countless

Personally I just play super casual now. There is no need anymore to care for something in which they clearly do not have the resources to care in return. Just expect the worst and you won’t be let down. Find another game to fill the time, until A-net catches up, if ever.

Countless

sorrow.2364:

Trigr.6481:

You can’t be considered the best when all the “best teams” no longer play and your there by default to warm their spot while they are absent.

Countless

This doesn’t make so much sense.
I’m pretty sure that there are way better players that have yet to start playing GW2, but it doesn’t mean that because of this, the leaderboard means nothing.

“the leaderboard means nothing.” <— At least you said something right.

Countless

sorrow.2364:

Trigr.6481:

Your first mistake was using the leaderboards as a marker to judge anything. Just use your imagination, it’s probably more accurate.

Countless

Actually, I think it is safe to say that the best teams are on top of TeamQ the leaderboard.
Can’t say the same about SoloQ leaderboard since it is also a matter of luck.

You can’t be considered the best when all the “best teams” no longer play and your there by default to warm their spot while they are absent.

Countless

Dozer.6057:

trying to crack the top 1000 just curious what classes the top TSpvp play?

Your first mistake was using the leaderboards as a marker to judge anything. Just use your imagination, it’s probably more accurate.

Countless

What type of structure would you find interesting for leagues and ladders?
How long should a season last? — 4-5 Months

What would motivate you to play in one? — Having smaller skirmishes, 2v2 or 3v3 deathmatch. Anything larger with the currently dead player base is not even worth investing time in my opinion.

What types of rewards would you like to see? — Gems, gold, skins only available to pvp for the top winners, and for the love of god please make use of the wall of champions thing in the mists reflecting each season.

How would a player earn these rewards? — Top 5, top 10 teams in each bracket gets pvp only skins reflecting that they are the best. Assuming there is something more than conquest in the foreseeable future “cough 2v2 or 3v3 deathmatch”. If there isn’t then I probably won’t come back, sorry it’s just stale at this point.

How would you encourage players of all skill levels to participate? I can’t even get my friends to play now. Hotjoin you have to wait to get on teams with random team switch, soloq you can’t, and team que with 2 people you’re just going to get rolled by a pre-made. Your system is beyond flawed, make a que time for hotjoin, make small skirmish battles so I can encourage my friends to come back.

Even with the pre-existing player base, 2v2 for example, you have more teams overall which is more appealing and gives everyone more incentive to play because the teams are not confined with having a bunker guardian “assuming you come out with small scale deathmatch”, this opens the flood gates for more teams to play. Having a league is good, however keeping it with conquest is just a really bad idea. And this is assuming your ladder works out. Also I hope to god that those dissipation traits are fake on the “false” patch notes. If so you probably won’t see me around anyways. But it was a fun run regardless.

Countless

Enjoy

This is just a clear example that mesmer vigor and dodging is a far cry compared to other classes. Personally the fact that it’s being addressed before some of the other things in the game is pretty mind blowing. Although the video itself was made poking fun at this, it’s still a pretty important issue when it comes to mesmer. Not to mention boon rip, arcane thievery, bountiful theft, etc. If all else fails for you, make it more points to invest, not nerf the trait.

TLDR: Critical infusion needs to stay the way it is, I personally believe you guys didn’t think this through.

Countless

Evan Lesh.3295:

Why not both? New game mode on a new map.

Don’t tease the community Evan Lesh, It’s not nice.

Countless

On the point of vigor… I get that you are trying to reduce the number of dodges in-game, but this needs to be done on a class-by-class basis rather than as a blanket-approach. Lighter classes such as the Mesmer inherently need more mobility and evasion compared to, say, a Warrior.

Countless

Wasbunny.6531:

Before we all start asking for a nerf to any of the Mesmer ‘on-dodge’ traits (DE + clone death) by making them uniquely blockable or whatever we must find out if they are really overpowered in the first place.

You need to find out how much something is before stating it’s too much.
Sorry to sound like a broken record, I’m really more reminding the devs than anyone else.

So I did a simple side by side comparison between Mesmer & Thief using only ‘on-dodge’ traits (Deceptive Evasion & Caltrops) and only dodging to kill a moving target golem.

Mesmer: About 3-5 stacks of bleed 100% up-time (90% from auto-attacking clones). Very rarely a few seconds of Cripple,Vulnerability or Weakness.

Thief : 4 stacks of bleed 100% up-time. 45+ seconds of cripple.
also 2-4 stacks of might gained as well as swiftness and endurance regeneration

If anyone can seriously look at those two examples and arrive at the conclusion that the Mesmer is in need of having their ‘on-dodge’ traits nerfed in any way for the sake of balance…then I just don’t know what else to say.

Agreed, as I said it’s not guaranteed damage. And the mere fact that this thread is taking place in the first place is rubbish. I’ve had talks with many mesmers including helseth about deceptive evasion. He also agrees that DE makes mesmer. Also talk of actually incorporating DE into the core mechanic of mesmer “meaning you wouldn’t even have to be spec’d into it to get it.” But that’s probably a fairy tale. So regardless of logic and reason it will never see the light of say as far as that change.

Personally if they want to see mesmers emerge into the meta for the long term “outside of exploits”, something really positive has to happen overall to see alout of diversity in builds to show. I feel that making deceptive evasion easier to access in some way would pave the way, or with the suggestion I posted above. However the direction this is heading isn’t too inviting.

Countless

Carighan.6758:

But if the on-death traits are nerfed, that’s actually much worse.

Because, without DE the on-death traits are really weak. I’d even go as far as say they need a buff. It’s only when DE enters the field that they become strong.

I’d rather see a general change to DE. Make it something different. It’s clone-generation is causing way too many issues. I want better clone-generation, more powerful clones, better on-death balance, better shatters… all that is impossible while DE exists.

Trigr.6481:

Mesmers in general are pretty well off the way it is. It’s just the other classes who are overshadowing mesmers for some time now and that’s fine. However it seems you guys are taking your balance stick and poking it in the wrong places overall in a attempt to makes things better, but honestly this was taking things a step backwards with the changes that you are proposing. Hopefully you will change your minds.

Though, keep in mind that sPvP is a tiny portion of the game, and in the minds of most non-sPvP players fairly inconsequential. It doesn’t even share items or buffs, after all.
It’s balance also works nothing like the balance in the rest of the game, a result of it’s too-small team size.

It’s not really an ideal place where to start a balance discussion. It cannot ever be balanced, and it’s mechanics make it quite peculiar. It’d be easier to balance it as a separate game, and just remove it from GW2’s main game. Different classes, different game, different mechanics.

It’s too tacked-on to really worry about it much in balance discussions, IMO. WvW and PvE balance are more comparable in that at least both scale freely from solo to zerg, and both feature both character and object combat. Including a variety of tasks.

Sadly I’m not even quite sure how the whole thing with debilitating started to begin with as far as justifying a nerf to be quite honest. Because if they were to nerf just debilitating, that would be inconsistent with leaving the rest of the clone on death traits alone. They should not mess with the overwrite, they should not mess with deceptive. Deceptive IS mesmer, without it and or a lesser version of it, mesmers would fall down a hill in which it could not recover.

Not to mention to what I said earlier is that debilitating is not guaranteed damage. Positioning, weapon sets, etc play a role in your damage landing. Refer to my earlier post for a more specific example above.

Countless

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Thanks for the feedback guys, there were some good points brought up here. This is why we wanted to discuss these future changes so that we had time to adjust to your feedback.

We’ll be discussing this change more internally. Most likely we will make some adjustments or look at other options such as replacing clones not triggering Debilitating Dissipation so it does not impact mesmer play as much which wasn’t our intent.

I’ve been running clone on death longer than most, so I believe I have some knowledge on the mechanic. But what you’re suggesting not only hurts clone on death, but mesmers as a whole, and that simply isn’t fair in my opinion. There are plently of ways to make clone on death more balanced without ruining one of the best traits that mesmers have. An idea that comes off the top of my head is the following.

- Make clone on death blockable

that alone would deter a decent amount of damage for quite a few classes including guardian, warrior, engi, ranger, and mesmer. But what you’re currently doing is limiting diversity once again, which is sad. Mesmer right now is struggling in the current meta. And the only mesmers who have any place in the meta are relying off the exploit confounding suggestions to hold their weight, and that simply isn’t right either. A bigger effort needs to be made off of fixing bugs then re-evaluating the situation before moving forward.

Also I would like to add a few things that also need to be considered when it comes to clone on death that some people don’t realize, which is the fact that your choice of weapon sets highly dictate whether or not your clone on death conditions hit at all.

The reason I say this is, is because the only weapon mesmer has that forces your clones to run into melee range of your target is main hand sword. Scepter, staff, and greatsword clones stand in place and auto attack from the point in which you dodge from deceptive evasion. The only time this changes if the target runs out of line of sight, then the clones follow. Torch, pistol, and off hand sword don’t factor in because they are not considered main hand weapons obviously.
So you also have to take into account that even though there are clones on the field, you might not even get that damage, weapon sets, positioning, & simply ranging the clones play a big factor at negating clone on death damage. Also something else to consider with debilitating dissipation is that it’s not guaranteed damage.

Mesmers in general are pretty well off the way it is. It’s just the other classes who are overshadowing mesmers for some time now and that’s fine. However it seems you guys are taking your balance stick and poking it in the wrong places overall in a attempt to makes things better, but honestly this was taking things a step backwards with the changes that you are proposing. Hopefully you will change your minds.

Thanks for reading

Countless

“On the point of vigour… I get that you are trying to reduce the number of dodges in-game, but this needs to be done on a class-by-class basis rather than as a blanket-approach. Lighter classes such as the Mesmer inherently need more mobility and evasion compared to, say, a Warrior.”

Well said. Also I would like to add a few things that also need to be considered when it comes to clone on death that some people don’t realize, which is the fact that your choice of weapon sets highly dictate whether or not your clone on death conditions hit at all.

The reason I say this is, is because the only weapon mesmer has that forces your clones to run into melee range of your target is main hand sword. Scepter, staff, and greatsword clones stand in place and auto attack from the point in which you dodge from deceptive evasion. The only time this changes if the target runs out of line of sight, then the clones follow. Torch, pistol, and off hand sword don’t factor in because they are not considered main hand weapons obviously.

So you also have to take into account that even though there are clones on the field, you might not even get that damage, weapon sets, positioning, & simply ranging the clones play a big factor at negating clone on death damage. Also something else to consider with debilitating dissipation is that it’s not guaranteed damage.

When it comes to shattering with clone on death it is also very situational, but not unheard of. Which is another common misconception. for example if your target is going to flee it’s wise to shatter because by the time your target gets distance it’s more than likely than he will be out of range before your clones/phantasms can catch up and do damage accordingly. Same thing with down body pressure. Also wise to shatter in between your phantasm recharge because once the target is stomped your illusions are no longer. So it’s best to get in that last bit of physical damage to ensure the stomp, or a daze on another target who is foolish enough to res without stab. Just word for thought.

But as I said before, making the clone on death blockable would solve alout of problems in my humble opinion.

Countless

Bumping for the sake of common sense.

jimmyimo.2089:

I doubt it has any thing to do with clone death builds. Otherwise they would have just made the clone overcast not count as “kill” but a (non-damaging) shatter.

I personally think they just want to force PU mesmers so the profession is easier to play for the casuals; every thing they ever did was for casuals.

Wrong, they mentioned clone on death specifically in the developer live stream regarding deceptive evasion. Go to 41:50 in the link below. Please try and keep up

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/496005243

Countless

Liewec.2896:

personally i love the Deceptive Evasion nerf, i hope they nerf clone spammers through the ground, i play pvp, i want to fight players not the AI they spam because they’re too useless to fight for themselves…

i write this after rage quitting from my last game against a team with 3 mesmers that did nothing but run away, stealth and spam AI.

AI needs removing from pvp entirely. PVP PLAYER VS PLAYER

Please keep the post constructive. If you’re going to have any thoughts regarding what I said then please post them, but try and make it worth reading. Rather than using this thread to vent your rage because you quit a game prematurely to I’m assuming PU mesmers based off your stealth comment.

Countless

I’m not quite sure if anyone is experiencing this but this has been going on for over a week. Usually it occurs more in mid afternoon and slowly gets worse into the evening. So I figured I would put up a thread if anyone was experiencing the same problem.

Computer Specs

OS: Windows7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Cpu: Amd FX 8350 Eight Core Processor 4.00GHz

Gpu : Nvidia Geforce GTX 760
-Approx Total Memory 4038 mb

Memory : 12gb Ram
——————————————————————————————————————
What I have tried doing so far to fix the problem.

- Fresh install of Os for new Gpu installation

- Fresh Install of gw2

- Repaired Gw2

- Unparked my cores

- Cleaned the registry

So far everything has been unsuccessful. I’m still experiencing random skill lag at the times specified above. If anyone has a solution to this I would greatly appreciate it. I’ve also tried other online games but gw2 is the only thing causing problems. I’m also having huge FPS drops by doing nothing but running around in heart of the mists. By simply running over the bridge in the mists I go from 110 fps to all the day down to 25-30 fps.

Is this game really that poorly optimized? Like there really shouldn’t be any situation where I should drop 80fps by simply running over a bridge….. /facepalm. Any helpful info and or solution would be nice.

Countless

Nothing beats UT2004 announcer sounds in my opinion. Video link for reference.

What’s a “comunity”?

Countless

Here is the link to the video below. If you have any questions let me know, thanks.

Countless

I knew this would happen.

Countless

cymerdown.4103:

I’m just critiquing the power level of the build and its viability — I don’t think the cooldowns are short enough for it to be a powerful spec. It’d be like saying Eles dying too fast is a player skill issue. No, their sustain is just too bad to compete at the top level right now with the other best specs the game has to offer.

But maybe you’re right and the spec is a sleeper that nobody has figured out yet. This is the kind of argument that playtesting would lay to rest.

Just a difference in opinion. Comparing a build to a class is not a very good comparison. What did eles ever do to you anyway :P

Countless

cymerdown.4103:

Maybe, but results matter. I personally think the shatter cooldowns are too large for a spec with 0 points in illusions. Your initial effectiveness is ok, but then you have big timers to deal with, and during that time you are pretty much useless to your team. It’s true that this change could end up buffing the spec overmuch, I’d like to test it and consider the implications.

That’s a player skill issue in my humble opinion. Managing cd’s of shatters is important. Spamming them at all once isn’t the best option obviously.

Countless

cymerdown.4103:

Ok, but the build you’re suggesting isn’t currently tournament-viable. Making it so it could be combined with Illusionary Persona would buff the spec, which is what I’m after.

Considering a build to be non tourne viable because nobody is currently running it implies that no build hence forth can be tourne viable because it’s not “popular”. Personally I disagree, I see that build being viable.

Countless

The Gates Assassin.9827:

cymerdown.4103:

As examples, can you go x/x/x/30/30 as a support shatter build with illusionary persona? Nope, no Deceptive Evasion. Can you go 30/x/x/x/30 confounding suggestions with imbued diversion? Nope, no Deceptive Evasion.

I am very happy about these facts. Confounding + Deceptive + IP would be scary as hell.

Can you go a support shatter build without illusionary persona? Yep, the answer is 20-20-0-30-0. Grab shattered concentration, Vigorous revelation, rending shatter, and shattered concentration and every time you shatter you strip boons, grant aoe vigor, stack aoe vulnerability to nearby foes, and cleanse conditions. Who cares about persona when you’re offering that much team support. And it’s within the realms of you guessed it……….deceptive evasion. Confounding suggestions is relevant because it’s a bug, a big one at that. It will fade like a fart in the wind.

Countless

Responding to your quote

“Diversity? It’s like, nearly required in every Mesmer build, especially shatter. It’s an excellent shatter trait, I think it belongs in the shatter tree. It generates more illusions, why is it in a tree titled, “Dueling”?”

Especially shatter? That can be debated, lots of builds like deceptive evasion. Also if that’s going to be your argument then what about shattered concentration? That’s considered by most to be a shatter ability because it involves you iunno…. shattering? Lets just move that to illusions while were at it……..no. While were on this topic lets move Rending Shatter, Shattered Conditions, Restorative Illusions into the illusions tree because it has to do with shattering your illusions. See where I’m going with this?

Futhermore deceptive evasion doesn’t belong to any one build. You can try to argue me on this but it’s not going to go anywhere. And who cares about sorting traits by titles and names when it comes to “oh it’s gotta be in the illusion tree because it has illusions in the text”….no. Consolidating abilities based off name is a pretty bad idea in my humble opinion.

Countless

I’m just going to comment concerning Mesmer.

Deceptive Evasion – There was never any need to move this trait. Putting it into the master tier illusions is very illogical. This is one of the traits that gives good build diversity across most Mesmer builds. It’s in a very good spot where it’s at.

Critical Infusion – Another trait that should not be tampered with, and your proposing a buff for this? No. Any more of a buff to critical infusion and it would be out of control. Furthermore nerfing this minor trait would also deem illogical. It is fine as is, don’t mess with it.

Dazzling Glamours – Also another trait that does not need to be moved.

Runes Of Lyssa – Give it a 90 Second ICD, stop trying to make it a runeset that mimic’s the RNG random mesmer boon and condi mechanics.

Everything else is up for debate, scepter was already sped up once. I’m not quite sure if speeding it up more would be out bounds however, it’s debatable.

I’m also concerned with your idea behind “Mantra Of Haste”. Mesmers would become perma stompers with distortion with this trait. The idea needs to be more thought out. It’s too strong.

In short there are more things to worry about then moving traits where they don’t need to be moved. And buffing things that don’t need buffs. Some of your ideas were decent. But overall I just feel that you didn’t do your homework when it comes to Mesmer as a whole. Also I want Doyourbestbear to be at blame for this. You’ve just spawned a endless wave of “Insert Name Here, Document’s”. Thanks bear. Mesmer is in a great spot “overall”, please don’t mess with it.

Countless

Acandis.3250:

DoYourBestBear.6810:

Ken,

I’m going to open my notebook shortly and respond to your post.

kitten just got real.

I would rather have the lyssa runes #6 suffer a 60-90 second internal cooldown. That way you would see much less spamming and abuse with classes that benefit way too much with low level elites. The idea sounds good, however I think just giving it a ICD would work much better than reworking most of the rune set.

Countless

@Chaith

“A PvE/WvW Nightmare. The Mesmer works to keep the target at range, and the target often works to close the gap. The loser of this struggle takes the most pressure from the Greatsword Auto-attacks. What you’re proposing does eliminate a portion of the ‘safe’ damage, but it also eliminates portion of the counter-play. Overall, I don’t feel it’s a worthwhile change.”

Ummm no? This forces the player to choose what’s more important at any given time, positioning or more damage. Therefore taking great risk when going in close and being rewarded with more dps, but at the expense of positioning. When it comes to your sentence about this change eliminating counter-play, I leave you with the following gif. Enjoy.

Countless