Guild Wars 2

Leave Spectral Walk alone please.

thaooo.5320:

Sad Tas.2509:

you can forget about a balanced tier 2, FA is dying or dead already

Blame TC for constantly karma training FA borderland, TC go for the easy PvD points, SOS push TC borderland.

Also SOS and FA are playing EOTM. TC are PvDooring the original maps, just have a look at gw2score.com

No lol, see because multiple FA posters have come in here to ‘set the record straight’ and reiterate that they as a server do not care about ppt and play only for fights.

What fights? Easy fights? Come Season 2, you’ll find yourselves sinking to Silver League and rolling over everyone in your path again at this rate. In contrast, look at Maguuma who are in ppt-tryhard mode so that they get into Tier 2/Gold League.

During their OCX primetime, all SOS have been doing is leech points FA’s papered borderland because nobody’s there to defend.

I don’t know why everyone’s complaining so much. It’s better than them not having ‘fixed’ it or not having introduced the ability to see where you are in the queue. I like it.

The implementation of Edge of the Mists was flawed though. That so many people from WvW and PvE would all be loading into the new map to check it out is something I’m sure they predicted. I suppose the servers just couldn’t handle it.

Did supply check on the stack we loaded in on. 178 players on that stack alone, not including the other stacks around us.

rhapsody.3615:

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

A new map after over a year, yeah everyone is gonna be there!

As said PvEers beware, if you go around flashing your legendary, WvWers will stomp you with their exotics

But I always flash my legendary in wvw by shoving it down my opponents’ throats!

Mmmm, yeah, shove that Moot down my throat!

Chris.3290:

I won’t post a screenshot of the conversations because I wouldn’t want to give those people’s names out.

Lol, learn to use Paint? What a poor excuse. You spend so much time on the forums politicking that you’re hardly ever in-game/online anyway.

There is no hostility towards the idea of FA gaining numbers. Regardless of whether or not TC heavily dominated EU, it wouldn’t change the fact that FA does have a good/sizeable EU force. And ZoD’s arrival changed nothing, TC has been on what’s essentially a downward slide, shedding guilds and players but not gaining any to compensate.

Go check the ppt incomes on Mos for this matchup for each server and compare, then come and tell me that TC is a perfect opponent for SOS.

Here’s a thought, Chris:

Most players do not post, but hundreds of potential transfers use these threads to get an idea before scouting a World, if they even scout it, thinking they’ll just read between the lines to get to the truth. And that’s not viable when faced with this disinformation. It’s something that you have frankly always done. So for once, with your good intentions for balancing Tier 2 in hand, why don’t you stop speaking for other servers, telling people what every server that you’re not on is like and let them speak for themselves.

Right, and what about the rest? FA has the guilds but they’re sitting around doing god knows what, unless all those new transfers upped and left or aren’t bothering. So sure they might need some OCX presence but I don’t see you looking to try and fill out TC’s timeslots.

You just talk about how TC can tap into a huge overall server population and use that as a reason to try and argue that TC is fine, but as we all know overall server population isn’t really a determinant factor as to how that server might perform in WvW.

Moreover, a large chunk of that overall server population are casuals/PvX who aren’t particularly invested in WvW like the guilds transferring to your server and others are.

There is no good SEA. It’s not consistent like, let’s say, your OCX population because it’s dependent on whether or not a certain guild shows up which half the time they don’t because of real-life commitments.

How is it hard to respect his argument? You didn’t even address any of his points. It was all fact-based. Hard to respect because of his anti-FA tirade or because it doesn’t suit your agenda? I suppose it’s easier to twist the focus of discussion onto how Dalloway is being so very anti-FA.

And fail to see how TC’s situation is so dire? Of course you don’t. Ironically, for all you spout and all the times you dropped by into matchup threads to give us all updates and made up statistics/facts about what everyone’s servers were like, you’re completely stumped here. Because guess what? You’re not on TC. You’re on SOS.

Utter tripe? FA does have a sizeable EU force or did you somehow fail to notice BOMB or CL? You’re not on this server so stop telling us what the situation is like.

Are you going to actually address anything that was brought up or just dance around it because you have no answers?

I would expect Chris, who supposedly keeps tabs on most servers more than most since he fondly drops by to give us all weather updates on every server, to know a bit better than to try and be disingenuous by stating TC is a perfect match for SOS in its current state.

OCX/SEA hard counters NA coverage so by stacking all of your timezones, you are turning yourself into a 24hr server. So much for wanting balance in Tier 2. You don’t want balance. You want to win, which is understandable. Just don’t pretend you’re doing the rest of us a favour.

All hail SOS, the new 7-Eleven and heroes of WvW balance.

I’m not complaining about the lack of fights or anything, but if you’re in any way trying to masquerade your transfers (preemptive stacking in time for Season 2?) as valiant intentions to balance Tier 1 to Tier 3, don’t bother. That said, enjoy the fights and 24/7 coverage with OCX pvdoor cherries on top.

apt.9184:

This is why devs should not listen to most people on the fourms. This change is great as it is reducing amount of stupid kitten in this game. Although, I wish they would do something about signet of spite already.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Posting-Guidelines

It really puts things into perspective. Like, in spite of all the banter and stuff that went into the matchup threads, we’re still a community. I didn’t really know Starscream but was in the same matchups threads with him enough to see what a great sense of humour he had.

Look after yourselves, IRON and all of his friends and family. Rest in peace, Starscream.

ThunderCat.8395:

10+ glass meteornado eles and a bunch of glass necros. Spam your meteors, static fields, chills, wells, etc. Scatter everywhere and avoid the melee train like a bullfighter. If they stop in a meteornado, people die. If they don’t all double dodge through the meteornado they die. If their squishes get hit with a single shot from your meteor shower, they will most likely die. Meanwhile, for their train to maintain cohesiveness, they have to chase down your casters a few at a time. Unless their group is perfectly on point, you can bring them down.

This is one of VR’s favorite strategies btw, so if you get matched up against Maguuma expect to see this.

I love VR for this.

Xaylin.1860:

Snip

Consider then that between the time the proposed changes came out and now, people have already made viable and fact-based arguments in a constructive manner.

Amongst that, there has been a resounding consensus against tying Dhuumfire to DS, including that DS is used both for offensive and defensive purposes so having to dip into DS just to apply burning doesn’t make it skillful play but rather gimps players. That doesn’t make it worth the 30 point investment.

It’s identical to Incendiary Powder which is a Master trait. Can you argue then that it should still, after being nerfed, be in the Grandmaster tier?

See the quote below by Ghlitch

Ghlitch.8932:

Untraited engineers have access to 4 different damaging conditions (Bleed, Burn, Confuse, Poison) and these just with weapon skills. Untraited necromancers have access to 3 damaging conditions (Bleed, Poison, Torment) if you count death shroud as a weapon skill.

By default, engineers can do more damage than necromancers with conditions.

Dhuumfire gives us access to a fourth damage type just to bring us back on par with an untraited engineer. Terror gives us access to a fifth damage condition, but one that can only be scarcely applied.

Though I’d rather argue that by default, engineers have the potential to do more damage with conditions, I agree about the possibility of a GM trait that applies Torment instead of Burning. It saddens me that thieves have two channels for applying torment to necromancers’ one. I thought Torment was supposed to be the special condition for necros.

In Conclusion
Nobody is ever 100% right but some of these are strong fact-based arguments. It’s not a case of bias or people being objective. ANet considered what the Mesmer community said about the DE change and backtracked because it was too heavy handed; what irks me is that they haven’t seemed to take that on board in this case.

Nothing has changed in all that time. That the preview for Necromancers is the same now as it was then is disappointing.

Tyops.5894:

In the long term this isn’t good for the health of the game. You need to generate excitement for patches, not dread.

God knows I dread every single balance patch; knowing that one or all of the specs that you play are having their viability/effectiveness nerfed isn’t particularly encouraging.

Regarding MM changes:
I haven’t read anything about people wanting the MM necromancy builds to be toned down; when you consider the shoddy AI of minions and their lack of survivability, I don’t think it’s possible that MM specs could ever be OP in their current state.

Regarding Dhuumfire:
That you’d even try to fob the nerf off as allowing necromancers to “carefully plan” their condition application is beyond me. If you’re going to go ahead with the changes (which I presume is what will happen because between now and the last update, it doesn’t seem like there’s been any consideration given to alternative suggestions or any sort of response to them), at least move Dhuumfire out of the Grandmaster tier; it will not be worth 30 points into Spite.

All of this leaves a bitter taste in my mouth; ANet in the end decided not to go ahead with the Deceptive Evasion change and have shown they’ll listen to the Mesmer community if it screams loud enough. I’m not saying revert the nerfs but it doesn’t feel like ANet is responding to the feedback given on some of these proposed changes in either the Profession Balance or respective class sub forums. What about the rest of us?

Paulie.6215:

Samhayn.2385:

Paulie.6215:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

…so why should one condition class be punished and the others ignored?

Because the necro as a “condition class” can approach 40k ups with one key press.

40k health and can be perma ccd to death.

Spec better? Not sure what else to tell you.

All classes can be “perma ccd to death” necro isn’t special in this regard. 40k hp makes it way easier to survive.

Death shroud should get a 50% reduction in hp or have a 1 min cool down.

Can we also propose a 1min cool down on every other class mechanic? 1min before you can switch attunements sounds nice I think…

I’ve already been told not to bring up the IP trait that Engineers have, but that logic doesn’t work; if Dhuumfire isn’t skillful, then surely Incendiary Powder isn’t either. They are identical…

With the berserker nerf incoming too, it’s not like before where I could feel at least somewhat safe falling back onto my power specs if the condition specs got nerfed.

I’m all for discussion but I don’t see the need for people to propose sweeping changes like this; why fix something that isn’t broken?

Aberrant.6749:

Usagi.4835:

This isn’t really so much a glaring problem for me as much as the supposed nerf to Beserker stats, BUT what? Dhuumfire for power specs? That doesn’t even make sense. As people have already said, it’s for hybrid and condition builds.

Also, I don’t really think, if the changes for Dhuumfire do go through, that it should even be in the GM tier anymore. Firstly, there’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder which is an identical trait, essentially, and which people have said (probably when used with skills) can be used to maintain perma burning.

Being able to apply burning post-patch now won’t be particularly inconvenient but tying it to DS/lifeforce will be.

Why does everyone bring IP into Dhuumfire convos… eng was balanced around having burning from the start, while it was added into necro after. It was a mistake to give this to necro and now instead of removing it and giving what necros need, they are trying to balance around that mistake. Two very different situations on two different classes.

Cool your jets, Mac. I’m not saying that they should make any changes to IP, rather I’m saying that Dhuumfire, if the change is going ahead, should be moved to Adept or Master tier because it will not be worth 30 points into Spite.

Umut.5471:

Zerkers were op in pve, and now they are fixing it. It is a fix, not nerf. As some guys said above, if everything gets buffed then the game starts to be too easy. Most people want challenging content to stay in game, not easy speedruns. Bunker, Condition and Healing power builds must be a part of pve too. Not everyone wants to do speed runs with warriors, don’t forget this. People want challenging content in pve. This isn’t even a proper fix, they have to improve mob ai in great amount to allow build/class diversity. For example, to defeat evading, running, stealthing, cc’ing mobs you would need different classes/different builds. They currently stay in front of you without even moving, this makes them to be killed with zerkers and zerker gs warriors easily.

Except this doesn’t fix it. if you want challenging content, run a sub-par build lol.

ArchonWing.9480:

There’s also another key notion. In a nerf-based philosophy, people always try to think of what to bring down (whatever is OP) instead of fixing what’s wrong with their class. This results in a lack of creativity and just a lot of screaming and whining.

How can you balance a game around people that whine about someone else being OP? You don’t.

And that is what is being done here; people complain about the content not being challenging enough but instead they’re nerfing a single stat combo and not getting to the crux of the problem i.e. the poor content design.

This isn’t really so much a glaring problem for me as much as the supposed nerf to Beserker stats, BUT what? Dhuumfire for power specs? That doesn’t even make sense. As people have already said, it’s for hybrid and condition builds.

Also, I don’t really think, if the changes for Dhuumfire do go through, that it should even be in the GM tier anymore. Firstly, there’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Powder which is an identical trait, essentially, and which people have said (probably when used with skills) can be used to maintain perma burning.

Being able to apply burning post-patch now won’t be particularly inconvenient but tying it to DS/lifeforce will be.

Berserker requires no skill. Stacking requires no skill. Living requires no skill. Well done, QQers.

I don’t PVE carebear at all so I don’t really understand how people get their funsies off doing the same dungeons for an entire year or so; nonetheless, have some of you ever considered that, in all your complaining, the content itself requires no skill????

So surely, instead of being lazy and nerfing Berserker stats, ANet should actually put time into redesigning key elements of said content? Idk.

The Norn Leopard elite is just silly lol… that mobility. I don’t think human racial skills (having played only humans) are that good to be honest. Prayer To Lyssa certainly isn’t good enough to take up one of your utility slots and Prayer To Kormir is on a long cooldown and necros are already equipped with good condition management.

I would’ve thought asura would be quite good (animations and size aside), simply because of Pain Inverter: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pain_Inverter

I’ve never played an asura for a particularly long stretch of time but, at least for condi necros, I’d have liked to play around with Pain Inverter and Perplexity runes or something.

etrigan.4213:

Usagi.4835:

BOMB blob spamming emotes when you chase 15 players with 40+. Tyrion so kitten. Cpme open field fight with equal numbers instead of PvD and zoomhack.

lol someone is mad

Yeah, like how you’re mad AoN left FA to go to Mag. Why u guys so bad in open field? Why u die outside bay? Why u leave FABL when we come to NW tower? Why?

Keira Ferland.5619:

Usagi.4835:

BOMB blob spamming emotes when you chase 15 players with 40+. Tyrion so kitten. Cpme open field fight with equal numbers instead of PvD and zoomhack.

Wow, he sure got to you. Maybe you should take a rest, lol.

Lik dis if u cri everytim. Also, we’re outmanned so stop running back to lord room to hide behind your superior acs~ You have a blob.

BOMB blob spamming emotes when you chase 15 players with 40+. Tyrion so kitten. Cpme open field fight with equal numbers instead of PvD and zoomhack.

Is Tyrion’s back breaking from all the FA on superior siege that he’s carrying? You guys are wiping an awful lot.

I know you’re playing ‘ppt’, FA, but please stop maphopping everytime you wipe because you don’t get to pvdoor with no resistance. Fights are fun.

@Pyroatheist
“All you do is chain stealth and dodge, more or less.” If I had actually meant that literally, then that entire paragraph about skill and poor play would’ve been relevant.

You can’t think of a SINGLE whine-worthy build in the game? That I find hard to believe. While it’s admirable that you prefer not to ‘whine’ on the forums, that doesn’t mean that people who come here to voice their opinions are incorrect in doing so.

Headshot spam thieves running perplexity runes certainly wasn’t balanced and there was no viable counter for that besides attempting to run away, which wasn’t always possible. But I suppose you would say that too has a high skill-cap against good players? And the parameters for being good there would behaving lots of stability.

All builds have strengths and weaknesses, yes, but it’s not as if there’s an equal split between those on every build. In the case of PU mesmers, what are the weaknesses besides poor movement speed, perhaps poor condition management depending on the traits/utilities you’re using and the inability to chase (but that feeds into poor movement speed and limited mobility, which is a problem most mesmers have, regardless). And the strengths being high uptime on aegis/protection/regeneration and almost constant pressure (Sharper Images trait, Sigil of Earth proc, and if you’re running mainhand sword, as opposed to mainhand scepter). And if things don’t go your way, then you simply stealth to disengage.

@suedetooth
Yes, I know how PU condi mesmers ticks are applied. Why are you even asking that? It’s not as if I haven’t played it before. Redundant because usually you’re asked to check your combat log to see what killed you, and if your opponent was a condition-based mesmer, then why would you bother checking your combat log at all?

Somehow I feel you’re deliberately being facetious by just asking loads of questions but never really answering them in return. So I’m not going to bother elaborating. And what was the point of the dolyak reference? That’s not a good comparison because dolyaks don’t kill anything. If PU mesmers are complaining about not being able to kill dolyaks, they need to switch out to weapon that isn’t scepter or staff.

@Carighan
What? Thieves in general are useless in zergs so condition thieves certainly wouldn’t fare any better.

In any case, I kind of feel this is pointless. I have a mesmer and I love my mesmer too but I don’t think you care to agree on anything that doesn’t say mesmer has a high skill cap.

Laters~

BlackDevil.9268:

Because everyone is looking at it from 1 perspective. PU mesmer is only, and really only, good for roaming. It’s worthless in any other game type. Sure it might be really strong in roaming, but it’s not when you look at it from multiple perspectives.

I don’t see why you would look at it from any other perspective anyway; mesmers, regardless of build, are pretty redundant in zerg fights or anything larger than a small skirmish (aside from their utilities).

Pyroatheist.9031:

Usagi.4835:

Considering how passive PU condi mesmers are, I don’t see how you could say there’s a high skill cap on it. All you do is chain stealth and dodge more or less.

See, this is exactly what I’m talking about.

Can I run a PU build, spam stealth, dodge aimlessly, and win? Sure, but I can only win against players with incredibly low skill that have hardly any idea of the concept of counter play.

It doesn’t take skill to steamroll bad players with a PU build. The problem is that then those bad players that got steamrolled come to the forums and complain because they think that PU is overpowered and without skill.

Sorry, that’s not how it works. You got steamrolled without effort because you’re bad. PU takes skill against good players, and takes no skill against poor players. The whining on the forums about PU simply serves as a highly effective classification method for determining those players with skill, and those without.

@suedetooth: Well said.

I hope you don’t mean me when you say “you’re bad”. I usually look to you as being one of the foremost mesmer experts in these subforums and you’re being pretty aggressive about it. :/

Note I didn’t say it was overpowered, but it is very strong. The problem is that it’s now erring on the side of overpowered because of, what I think, is good damage/pressure and good sustain/disengage, which isn’t even needed because PU mesmers have so much stealth, they just reposition for the next condi burst.

ALL builds need skill against good players, not just PU. And it was kind of redundant to ask people to check their combat logs (if you’re referring to PU condi mesmers), since condi ticks don’t show up there which I’m sure you know.

It’s kind of silly to also claim that whining on the forums is a good metric for separating the good and bad players; just because you don’t agree, there’s no need to invalidate someone else’s opinion.

Considering how passive PU condi mesmers are, I don’t see how you could say there’s a high skill cap on it. All you do is chain stealth and dodge more or less.

Brb, fellow no-lifers, my water just broke. Pardonnez-moi. Je ne l’ai pas fait exprès.

Love me, love me, say that you love me.

kfarb.6732:

-snip-

Hey! <3

I thought you all used tinfoil armour…

BLKNovember.5620:

I’ve known Tyrion since I started commanding, but Z was my friend, I knew his style of commanding, and he was great at it. I don’t see how you can condone the tearing apart of a community, you didn’t say anything about him but the message is clear. No wonder he left FA.

Z seems really nice. Can you persuade/threaten/cajole him into making more Huts of Doom?!

Yodaman.3274:

Good to see TC has regained their large fairweatherer population. Picture shows the tail end of a 20 person pug group chasing down 2 mag mes and 1 dd ele. Hilarious especially after they used over 200 supply to recap a paper tower from a single defender with 70 supply. Mad skills.

Cheese-kun thinks you are mad. Are you mad?

Furiousbeard.7602:

The GS abilities have been available SINCE LAUNCH, but now all of a sudden it’s causing people to cry?? Isn’t it rather odd that it’s suddenly an issue? There is some kind of whiners bandwagon that just showed up in town, and most don’t even play their classes to the full potential.

Actually, I think what people are crying about is the fact that warriors have such good mobility/disengage ON TOP of all that healing/sustain/damage/CC. Lol I think someone told me warriors have more regen than a guardian??? (._.)

etrigan.4213:

lol @ CERN talking smack.

They think they are good. The comedy of this thread lol

How much coal did you get this year? Cheese-kun wants to know.

I’m super glad we won. I personally stayed up on Christmas Eve and then also decided to skip spending Christmas with my family to make sure we held the highest score throughout the day.

Then again, I’ve spent so much time with all my friends online over the last year, I think TC might be my real family. I might sleep soon since we won so it was worth it.. Merry Christmas everyone!

Love Cheese-kun! ♥

True warriors are supposed to show courage, to be gallant and loyal and to swear off cowardice and baseness!!! So many people now running (no pun intended) cheesy Usain Bolt specs.

What’s the point of always running away from fights in PvP/WvW?

ninjambo.3784:

Please do not mistake Tyrions ego and ignorance as the opinion of all of FA.

Most people think hes a joke, and the ones that are nice to him are just scared that he will stop commanding our EU timezone if they don’t kiss his kitten.

On a side note: Thank you for the fun fights this week PYRO, STUN, Ark, Azn, VR. Our raids this week have actually been fun because you guys don’t run into towers like Yaks Bend and SBI do.

Lol get jajaja’d, Tyrion.

Switching to water attunement in an SMC three-way is easy as pie. Ez as ?.

Did you also glitch into Jerrifer’s, FA? Naughtiest server NA. Or specifically, the commander engi from Two And A Half Men [TWM].

Tyrion.5764:

iAmTheDuke.6201:

iAmTheDuke.6201:

Tyrion.5764:

Why Tc made that [BOMB] guild ?

Bomb is a pretty common word you know.
Did you ever think that?

Are you sure because this guys say the real reson ^^ jajaaja

Usagi.4835:

We Carry Servers To Great Victory [BOMB] is recruiting! Plz msg me jajajajaja! ^^;

Plz don’t misquote me.

FA, be honest. Did you glitch into Aldon’s? No catas, no rams. Nothing.

Tasty Hogs [HOGS] is a Tarnished Coast WvW guild that focuses on ppt-play. We are currently recruiting all hogs, tasty or otherwise, to come join us as we gorge ourselves on PPT so we can offer (sacrifice) ourselves to our FA overlords! Please PM for more details jajaja!

On an unrelated note, join the dirty roleplaying pirate carebears of TC as they hunt for the lost treasure of Stephen Bonetti Brolbooty Bootybert’s Bootylicious Booty this Christmas!