Guild Wars 2

What you said is true but gvg is dead, friend. What these guys are antsy about is zergs.

Lots of people aren’t happy and rightly so. The gameplay is stale and spammy. Melee trains have always been considered part of the meta, for the most part, but it’s kind of sad that it’s so rigid now, that it’s boiled down to this and pinsniping. VR were perhaps one of the few, if only, coordinated guilds who did what they did and did it well. There was some semblance of diversity in gameplay then. Now, unfortunately, this is your counter to melee trains.

This is purely anecdotal, but going back to 2013/2014, I was using Epidemic in zergs and gvgs on occasion. I felt it was it was easier back then (I could just target a guardian) and it worked the same way. Epidemic is the dependent variable but it hasn’t changed. Addition of Resistance and different stat combos like Trailblazer’s and Dire (which are entirely defensive), changes to the formula for condition damage and condition stack caps, no more stats from traitlines etc. I still think you’re barking up the wrong tree because people will still complain about condi necros, condi mesmers (which are the worst of the lot imo), burn guards and whatever else. I don’t personally think ANet will find a way to balance conditions but it’s worse than it was at the start of the game.

Before, you had Rabid, Carrion and Rampager’s (possibly the healing power variants too) to pick from, and you were giving something up. You only had one defensive stat and it was a minor one. Back then, for some classes, it was mandatory for you to take Rabid because you needed the precision to proc on-crit effects which were part of your damage rotation. Now, you don’t really have to. It’s ironic. ANet changed Dhuumfire from being an on-crit proc (while leaving Engi’s version of the trait untouched) and attached it to DS1. I don’t envy them. It’s an MMO, not a MOBA or something like CS:GO. I don’t think you’ll ever find a way to balance it and please everyone.

If anyone was serious about improving gameplay on the whole, the shaving would need to be consistent across the board. But honestly, after the trait revamp and HoT and elite specs in particular, I could care less lol. I’m a free casual now. Soz for spam.

The Game Slayer.7632:

There are plenty of other counters to boonspam. And a small nerf to epidemic will not render it useless to boonspam. Don’t over-inflate things.

What are the other counters to boonspam? Well of Corruption is a pulsing aoe, 5 sec duration, one conversion per pulse per second. Null Field operates in much the same way. Corrupt Boon has a relatively low cooldown but is single target only.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Also, if we didn’t ever nerf things on the basis that it would ‘punish coordinated play’, then nothing would ever get nerfed. Every single skill in this game is involved in coordinated play. Again, the problem with epidemic is that it is exponentially dangerous, which is something I’m okay with having in the game. Consider some of the other suggestions which were to give epidemic a more obvious animation so that it could be avoided a bit easier if someone were paying attention. (Aka rewarding skilled play, punishing mindless spam of one of the most hardest hitting skills in the game.)

That’s not true either. ANet have tweaked and fixed (read: nerf) lots of things that they thought weren’t ‘working as intended’, with scant regard to what players think, meteornado and lich bombs being an example of that. There’re lots of variables at play in WvW, as I think I mentioned previously, and you’re being disingenuous to suggest that somebody can mindlessly spam Epidemic. If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. With all of the visual clutter in zergs, I’m not sure how obvious you want to make the telegraph such that it will make a difference outside of small-scale roaming. But if bandaids placate people…

The Game Slayer.7632:

Eh. Luck can be involved, but most of the time it isn’t. It’s an over-performing skill, that’s all.

Forgive me for being presumptuous but I suspect you don’t play necro. You can make things easier on yourself by being selective about targets (revenants because, bless them, they can apply AOE resistance but have terrible condi cleanse; ranger pets; NPCs; necros in DS or Plague; downed state targets; warriors) but they’re not stationary and there will almost always be light fields and projectile or whirling finishers going off. Epidemic has a 1 sec cast-time, which isn’t excessive but can’t compete with instant-cast utilities from mainly guards.

The Game Slayer.7632:

No, I’m definitely barking up the right tree here. Anet has made it abundantly clear that conditions are going to be a very large part of pvp. There’s no changing that. Bye bye power-meta. (It’s been bye bye for a long time.) That being said, I’m not asking for epidemic to be deleted, only slightly altered or changed in some sort of way. It just over-performs at the moment.

It’s laughable to talk about balance now imo but Epidemic fills a necessary role. Boon /condition application as it functions now is (in trying not to be hyperbolic) ridiculous or otherwise slowly getting there. Factor in toys for funsies like Mussels Gnashblade which is a straight 10% damage reduction with no conditions attached to it, unlike Seaweed Salad, and it’s very easy for power-specced/boon-heavy zergs to train around.

Having necros who run Epidemic does not guarantee that you’ll win. In effect, it’s a reaction to things ANet have introduced into the game, that players have recognised as overtuned or ‘optimal’. Because they ‘fixed’ things like meteornado, there is no power-based counter to melee trains in their current iteration. It’s really sad. Guilds like VR from Mag were fun as kitten to watch. They didn’t run GWEN meta. They ran backline-heavy and all glass. You can’t do that anymore. There’s no way to get a melee train to sit in necro wells which, while unblockable, can be dodged and only pulse once per second for 5 seconds or even meteors which they’ve ‘tweaked’. Adding more things to the balance backburner/bonfire like Superspeed on top of what might be at least 43% damage reduction, good luck downing their melee train with staff eles/necros who are running full glass.

There’s an inconsistency then. I got the same result but if you try with Balthazar, for instance, it misses and clears the blind. Tormenting works also, doesn’t clear the blind but applies the 2 stacks. Well whatever, I don’t care anymore.

The blind is only cleared if there’s anything within a 240 radius around you which would require some luck on your part or otherwise poor play from your opponent. I don’t see it as particularly important as I don’t use any of those runesets but figured I’d point it out.

Necro was able to condi burst reliably but I feel that’s as much to do with the state of other classes (read: current powercreep across the whole game). As it stands, condi mesmer, for instance, is able to quickly apply anywhere from 2-4 conditions (depending on traits) with a single shatter though I imagine the lack of burst might be because necro is in a unique position where it can manage conditions and, to a lesser extent, boons through transfers and corrupts.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Usagi.4835:

Mate, perhaps you might benefit from some introspection of your own, given how passive-aggressive you’re being. I didn’t ask for your advice and you had nothing of relevance to add besides some pepperings of holier-than-thou. I was switching armour from another class that was using Perplexity runes, not that I or anyone else should have to explain anything to you lol.

It wasn’t necessary either for base condi necro, prior to the trait revamp and HoT, to use Perplexity runes. Weakening Shroud, Terror, Path of Corruption and Signet of Spite provided more than enough condi application. Perplex was cheese but then how other people play doesn’t really fall under my remit, does it?

Take your snark elsewhere.

I’ll take it wherever I want it, thanks for the concern. If I really wanted you to feel bad, I would have simply said that I think you’re a kitten for requesting a nerf to an ability or a fundamental change to a Rune set on the basis of “it should work because I want it to”, but I didn’t do that because there are better ways of giving people information.

You know, like I did in my first post where I gave you a minor slog of better options and reasons why you shouldn’t run Perplexity?

Besides, you can’t complain about passive-aggression when you yourself are doing the same thing, and on top of that: You kinda did it first.
“I’m very much aware of all of those things as I’m not new to necro but thanks anyway.”
Funny how that works hmm?

Then you feel like telling me I contributed nothing of relevance when the only other post on the thread at the time was “Yeah! F MoC+CC!”? You can be happy that I responded at all or not, but in either case not all things have to work for everything all the time, and this is a prime example. You want better synergy with Perplexity and similar variants? Just run “Your Soul is Mine!” and call it a day. There’s no reason to nerf a strong ability+trait combination just because you feel entitled to running some other class’ armor on your Necromancer.

Well, you didn’t? You volunteered your advice but my point still stands: what has that got to do with the fact that a traited Consume Conditions, for all intents and purposes, doesn’t function properly with a number of runesets?

I certainly didn’t ask for a nerf. To suggest as much is fallacious. In fact, for people who don’t run Master of Corruptions, a reversion of CC to its previous state might even be seen as a buff (if you could even call it that) if you’re comparing untraited base cooldowns and no self-applied conditions. If somebody wants to run Consume Conditions, why shouldn’t it work properly with Balthazar, Tormenting, Perplexity et al?
For the sake of ‘build diversity’, shouldn’t they work with all heals? Nobody gives a kitten about what you think or whether it’s sub-optimal. Again, how people choose to play is their business. Not yours. Not mine.

I don’t want to run Perplexity on my necro. It’s not about anything I want. It’s about fixing something that probably wasn’t intended so why you’re being… the way you are… eludes me. Truly.

I really honestly don’t give a kitten. I didn’t ask for your advice (yet you still so kindly return to volunteer it) nor did I ask for a tour of necro through the ages.

I don’t feel entitled to anything but sometimes I share armour between my characters because I’m povo hence the OP. I’d ask you to stop being presumptuous about how I play or what my intentions are but I don’t think it’ll work with you. Any suggestions?

It’s not unique to Perplexity. I’ve tested with Balthazar runes and, given that the 6 bonus on those runes functions the same way, you can imagine what would happen. And with Torment runes too, though I haven’t tested with those since I’m povo as kitten.

With Perplexity, regardless of whether or not you’re in combat, after you use your heal, you’ll see a pink aura (similar in appearance to Alacrity) radiate from your character. It will clear the blind but that’s happenstance.

Point being, the way a traited heal interacts with certain runesets is not ideal.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Usagi.4835:

Zero Solstice.9754:

Going to be entirely honest with you, you shouldn’t be using Perplexity runes anyway. We have so many way better Rune options for all sorts of different builds, such as Thorns, 4 Nightmare 2 Trapper, Undead, Antitoxin, Krait, Scavenging, Aristocracy, and Grenth. Of all Condition-based options, Perplexity has the least synergy with our class, and it’s not like we terribly desire an additional cover condition so much that we sacrifice our entire rune slot for it.

Perplexity was a perfectly fine option until they reworked the rune. I’m very much aware of all of those things as I’m not new to necro but thanks anyway.

Even so, it doesn’t change the fact that the way the 6 bonus on those runes interacts with Consume Conditions, when traited for Master of Corruptions, is borked.

Perplexity was only a fine Rune option before it was nerfed because Base Condi Necro actually did need access to an additional damaging condi to be able to burst kill people, and it synergized well with Terror which was naturally interrupt-heavy.

At the end of the day you’re complaining about a non-bo interaction for a specific scenario on a class that shouldn’t be running the Rune to begin with. New to the class or not, your decision-making needs some help.

Mate, perhaps you might benefit from some introspection of your own, given how passive-aggressive you’re being. I didn’t ask for your advice and you had nothing of relevance to add besides some pepperings of holier-than-thou. I was switching armour from another class that was using Perplexity runes, not that I or anyone else should have to explain anything to you lol.

It wasn’t necessary either for base condi necro, prior to the trait revamp and HoT, to use Perplexity runes. Weakening Shroud, Terror, Path of Corruption and Signet of Spite provided more than enough condi application. Perplex was cheese but then how other people play doesn’t really fall under my remit, does it?

Take your snark elsewhere.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Going to be entirely honest with you, you shouldn’t be using Perplexity runes anyway. We have so many way better Rune options for all sorts of different builds, such as Thorns, 4 Nightmare 2 Trapper, Undead, Antitoxin, Krait, Scavenging, Aristocracy, and Grenth. Of all Condition-based options, Perplexity has the least synergy with our class, and it’s not like we terribly desire an additional cover condition so much that we sacrifice our entire rune slot for it.

Perplexity was a perfectly fine option until they reworked the rune. I’m very much aware of all of those things as I’m not new to necro but thanks anyway.

Even so, it doesn’t change the fact that the way the 6 bonus on those runes interacts with Consume Conditions, when traited for Master of Corruptions, is borked.

Epidemic isn’t broken or overpowered. It has force-multiplier effect. The skill itself is the same as it’s been for the last 3 years at least. It’s only now in 2016, courtesy mostly of Cinnamon and [TRex] (as well as PvE), that people have realised what a good skill it is and implemented it into the meta.

That said, I’m not sure why you 1) want to remove a counter to boonspam and 2) punish coordinated play.

Getting a good epi off involves some luck and good timing on the player’s part unless you’re using NPCs, downed targets, revs/warriors or ranger pets (which often don’t last long enough anyway). Gameplay is stale enough as is. Epidemic is a mechanic unique to necro and is one of the very few things that keeps me coming back to my main, and even then, it’s not as fun anymore.

And really, you’re barking up the wrong tree. Your issue isn’t Epidemic (which hasn’t seen any momentous changes in the last 3-4 years); it’s the way conditions work.

The 6 bonus on Perplexity runes applies 3 stacks of confusion in a radius around the user when you use your heal skill, or it would if it weren’t completely negated by the blind.

By chance alone, I stumbled upon this. I’m sure somebody else has probably had encountered it too but perhaps this might be enough to get ANet to either ‘fix’ it or change Consume Conditions so it’s no longer a Corruption skill?

Spartacus.3192:

sigh…..extra lifeforce doesn’t make you stronger as in more dps but if you survive longer that effectively makes you “stronger”. Just ask scrappers. They don’t have the biggest dps but when their sustain was off the charts they could kill anyone because they could wear people down. The HP cushion that lifeforce gives you enables you to have enough time for your condis to kill the enemy.

And yes I know life force doesn’t reset and can be carried from fight to fight which is again why necro are targeted right at the start of the match to stop them from ever getting any life force.

And Adrenaline for warrior is used to burst (ok it helps with adrenal health) but a warrior is still tanky at start of a fight and most have headbutt which if they are not complete garbage they can land very early on in a fight and have instant adrenaline.

Rev start combat with 50% energy so no problem there.

Astral force is easy to generate for druids especially with the way dolyak runes are broken for druids.

Your statement falls flat for a number of reasons and demonstrates your ignorance of how the class works.

The comparison with scrapper isn’t a fair one and doesn’t make any sense as there’s little parity between the two; namely, ‘HP cushion’, as you put it, vs active defenses (blocks, invulns etc.) which scrapper has access to and enabled it to shine in a bruiser role. Now, if scrapper were in the same armour class and had a similar mechanic to necro in the form of a second healthbar, you might then be able to attribute their success to that.

I don’t believe lifeforce is so easily/quickly built up as astral force or adrenaline.

Your comment about necros gaining the upper hand as a fight drags out (attrition) was part of ANet’s conceptual ideas for how it might function as a class. But that’s all it is. Talk. In practice, that doesn’t translate very well…

When necros are focused and CC’d, they’ll probably pop DS (which usually only prolongs the inevitable) and, even if they manage to get a stunbreaker off and owing to the long and easily interrupted cast time on Consume Conditions, will probably die unless they’re supported. There is no Renewed Focus or Defiant Stance. An HP sponge simply isn’t enough. That’s consistent across all necro builds though, of course, therein lies the problem with balancing.

And sitting in DS while you wait for your condis to kill your target doesn’t work. They’ll cleanse or, if you’re a decent thief with some common sense, reset and range you down. Please do some more reading so that the discussion might be more constructive.

I think something needs to be done with cast-times too, specifically on scepter. Long cast-times vs multiple evade frames makes it difficult to apply any sort of pressure.

Please stop giving them ideas.

Famine.7915:

Traveler for the sake of speed and an open util slot. Haven’t found that I need more powerful runes as of yet.

The 25% movement speed is worth so much <3

Run full zerk. The only thing I can think of that’s slightly borked with RS is the wonky patting with RS2. And the really short duration on Rs3, which sort of makes sense because it forces you to choose but I saw the nerf as unnecessary. It’s still way too short imo.

The damage on reaper is absolutely fine and doesn’t need buffing AT ALL. The auto attack chain (Christ, even RS2, RS4 and RS5) all do similar if not more damage than Lich AA.

Morde.3158:

Reaper shroud would be fine if death charge wasn’t so buggy and easy to avoid. If GS is suposed to be a pve weapon why is it so slow? everybody doesnt have an asian boon mesmer slave to give them quickness.

That’s v rude. Shame on you.

DaVid Darksoul.4985:

If anything scepter needs sped up. With the amount and frequency of boon applying the converting really isn’t a endgame. Berserkers now are so OP with crit damage and stuns that necro ahve a hard time gainst them, same with Druids and thier long range hgih crit, binding roots and stealth, Also would like to see reduction in burn and perplexity damage, or let us have access to perplex and maybe early game dhrumnfire

I disagree. Having a Mary Sue spec is the wrong approach to take. It’s healthy that you would be either soft or hard countered by certain builds. Scepter is fine as is. I was surprised when they added the boon corrupt in the third attack in the chain (not that I complained) because it seemed almost unnecessary – the auto attack was decently strong before imo.

By buffing it further, you’re paving the way either for nerfs later down the line to scepter or something else where it’s unwarranted or more powercreep.

Basically, leave scepter alone!

It’d be really sad to me that, after making it through 4 years of nerfs relatively unscathed, it was PvE that got Epidemic nerfed. Really, really, really sad.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Zintrothen.1056:

Three conditions with one attack.

Okay

A blast finisher, a daze and a 5 second cooldown, oh my.

May the stars guide you.

I don’t see them adding chill to Unholy Fervor happening. Since it came up (but I think it was in relation to Axe #3), I wish they would fix the pathing for Spectral Grasp to make it more reliable as it can easily be strafed.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

I don’t like pure Valkyrie because it locks you into Death Perception (or you somehow have to stack large amounts of vulnerability on all of your opponents to use Decimate Defences.

In a Zerg setting, conditions are flying around so you can bet, particularly with WoS, that you’ll Get some mileage out of Decimate Defenses. More so if you’re using axe (AA stacks vuln fairly quickly). Also consider the minor master trait and Bitter Chill in Spite. Though, as you pointed out, Valk leaves you in a position where critting is conditional. If more vitality is a must, one might be better served by going with Marauder’s.

In my experience, Metabattle offers the barebones of ‘meta’ builds but the gear suggestions on there are god awful (for WvW at least). Sometimes I wonder if it’s deliberate. Necro is fortunate enough to share the highest base hp with warrior. Coupled with DS, honestly, I don’t think vit is really necessary. Seriously consider Holl’s build. You’re self sufficient in that you can maintain perma swiftness, essentially perma 10-15 stacks of might (easily self-stacked to 25 might) and can build up life force very easily and very quickly with Blighter’s Boon. Wells and RS4 can also produce some respectable healing ticks.

NuhDah.9812:

Usagi.4835:

I’m actually really sad about it because I was just getting into thief and it was really helping me finish map completion quickly. Went out, came home, downloaded the patch and it was fixeD! I only had a few hours’ fun with it.

Heh, I wanted to try it too but red the thread too late… seems like ANet reads and fixes thief “bugs” on daily basis if you take into account this quick response… Or do they?

I got a few hours out of it :P

You can live on vicariously through vids on YouTube. Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjid3sk8lBo

I’m actually really sad about it because I was just getting into thief and it was really helping me finish map completion quickly. Went out, came home, downloaded the patch and it was fixeD! I only had a few hours’ fun with it.

Zintrothen.1056:

No AA should ever be powerful enough that you may need to dodge it.

If Anet wants to keep a boon corruption on Scepter, just add it to skill 2. That way it’s more reliable, more skillful, but also less OP. Win/win.

So how do you feel about revenant hammer autoattack and thief dagger autoattack? Or even warrior rifle autoattack? I’m not sure on that one tbh. Also it wouldn’t be more reliable; it would be a nerf which is exactly what you want. It would also be AOE which would inevitably grind someone else’s gears at some point in the future.

Rezzet.3614:

either the boon corrupt has to go or be replaced by boon removal
or the skill has to become an actual ranged projectile so it can be reflected

Unfortunately, mesmer currently owns the monopoly on projectile scepter autoattacks.

(Note: This is all in reference to condi builds.)

Except people haven’t seemed to consider base condi necro, not reaper. The pathing on RS2 is borked anyway. Don’t kite. Aloha snackbar it and burst them down. If you’re going to die, take them down with you.

Condi berserker is much stronger than condi thieves imo. Perplex nerf borked condi thieves (and to a lesser extent, mesmers) and so they aren’t quite so annoying anymore.

Condi mesmers are only difficult if you allow the fight to drag out. Play aggressively, load them with condis from the get-go, DS2 into DS3.

I personally think necro is the best condi class. I see a lot of talk about damage coming mainly from transferring conditions. There’s no need to kitten yourself so. Just spam corrupts.

Necro is absolutely viable for roaming. Yes, you will be countered by certain builds and yes, you will encounter cheese. That’s something you have to accept. It’s not all doom and gloom.

Mesmer subforum is almost as bad with the wallowing in self-pity. If you’re looking to play support, unfortunately you’d be well advised to play another class. If, however, you like burst, play necro/reaper.

Jerus.4350:

Usagi.4835:

Don’t use Pack Runes. Use Holl’s build for zerging. It’s magic. You can self-stack 25 might and have around 10-15 might almost all the time. Really easy to build up lifeforce too. If you’re low hp and get lucky, drop wells on the zerg, pop into DS and spam #1 or #4 if you’re in range. You don’t need any runes with swiftness duration. With the 20% boon duration from food and Spectral Walk/Locust Swarm, you have perma swiftness.

I personally run full zerk.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Vid-Power-Reaper-Bruiser-WvW-Roaming

:D google’s translate option for the Deutsche is quite hilarious. “if your opponent inflicts a cool, you also caused vulnerability”, “adds and opponent back to shower when you attack them” I need to brush up on my Deutsche though

Sorry for unrelated post, but hey, it’s funny!

Sehr geil!

Don’t use Pack Runes. Use Holl’s build for zerging. It’s magic. You can self-stack 25 might and have around 10-15 might almost all the time. Really easy to build up lifeforce too. If you’re low hp and get lucky, drop wells on the zerg, pop into DS and spam #1 or #4 if you’re in range. You don’t need any runes with swiftness duration. With the 20% boon duration from food and Spectral Walk/Locust Swarm, you have perma swiftness.

I personally run full zerk.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Vid-Power-Reaper-Bruiser-WvW-Roaming

What are you guys talking about? Condi necro is great for roaming. Aside from rangers/druids that are running longbow, most people (least of all, thieves/daredevils) won’t touch you with a ten inch pole. The secret? Weakening Shroud.

Walk up to an afking thief, Chilled to the Bone, Axe #2 with Chill of Death and Chilling Nova proc, dead.

Bad Cinnamon. You’re going to get Epi nerfed.

Just accept that ArenaNet balance devs are god awful incompetent and either quit or reroll your class. For instance, if you play WvW and are still here after nearly 4 years, wondering why things are the way they are and keep hoping something will change, you’ll always be unhappy. Just accept that they don’t listen to the playerbase, they don’t care and you’d be happier not caring either. Kiss kiss.

Thanks for pointing out the mess that is the Master of Corruptions trait. You don’t get a good enough return for the investment you put in, imo, especially given how Path of Corruption and Terror are much better traits. Prepatch, I never felt the need to trait for corruptions because a 15-second epidemic worked well with my rotation but I don’t really want to take the trait now either because:

A) in some cases, the self-applied conditions kitten you more than anything,
B) and as @nearlight pointed out, they don’t last long enough to warrant wasting a transfer on them.

Not exactly the most well thought out trait. Also, if you want us to consider taking Parasitic Contagion, please make it work in DS?

Vydahr.4285:

Usagi.4835:

They’re removing guard stacks so don’t factor that in.

I was under the impression that they weren’t going to remove them, but instead make it so that it takes less time to invest in them fully (as in, decreasing the number of points needed to max them out)

Nope.

“Due to granting the powerful Applied Fortitude and Applied Strength effects, the Defense Against Guards and Guard Killer lines needed to be extremely expensive, but that meant players often felt obligated to spend their first 230 points on these lines before they could begin branching out into other ability lines… This drove our decision to shorten the Guard Killer and Defense Against Guards lines to five, removing Applied Strength and Applied Fortitude.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upgrading-world-vs-world-upgrades/

They’re removing guard stacks so don’t factor that in.

Khristophoros.7194:

MattyP.6954:

It was an exercise in attrition. I outlasted a beefy opponent without having to withdraw while I (and about a half dozen other people) whittled down his health. Death Shroud made that possible. (That being said, my Engineer also has incredible staying power, but through entirely different mechanics)

I use DS the same way in PvE as you do. I use it to absorb damage as part of my sustain cycle. It adds a ton of sustain especially in PvE where each enemy death gives you some LF.

It really depends on the situation. Shroud helps you survive in short fights and also long fights. Though I mainly play PvE I strongly suspect that in PvP the LF generation is probably not quite good/reliable enough, otherwise discussions like this wouldn’t happen.

PVE in this game is, for the most part, mindless and imo terrible. As much as people enjoy PVE and don’t want balance to revolve around PVP (splitting skills here as was the case in GW1 would solve this), you only have to look at the attempts by ANet to encourage PVEers to move away from the zerk meta and the state of PVE now. It hasn’t changed at all. Zerk is still meta and everything else is suboptimal. Viable? Sure, the groups I’ve run with don’t really care what gear I’m using. But suboptimal nonetheless.

pdavis.8031:

Linnael.1069:

I don’t get why all the devs seem to think necro is an attrition class.

Maybe because they designed it that way?

Linnael.1069:

Because necro is a burst class by design, the devs just don’t know it.

Yes, because they don’t know anything about the very class and traits and mechanics that they designed, tested, and use.

In short, there are multiple options to play a variety of play styles. If you want to play a more burst build, sure!
If you want to play more attrition based? Sure!
Want to do something else? Why not?

Should I be limited in how I play necro because some meta website tells me to? Or should I play what I find fun?

I think you completely missed the point of the OP. Is it fair to wager that the state of necro currently is some indication of ANet’s knowledge/position/grasp of the necromancer class? Because that isn’t attrition. That’s a sponge.

This is why I feel like necromancer is such a patchwork quilt of a class.

It’s quite a sad state of affairs that we, as players, are pitted against one another whenever there’s a balance patch and want other classes to be nerfed so they can splash around in the mud with us lol.

As others have already pointed out, you cannot compare Adrenaline to Death Shroud. Necromancers use Death Shroud for both offense and defense and, on certain builds such as those that might not go into Soul Reaping to take Soul Marks, aren’t able to build lifeforce as reliably or as quickly as warriors can build adrenaline.

Admittedly though, for those that do take staff and Soul Marks, building up lifeforce is a little better compared to prepatch.

I think it’d be pretty funny to see all/most of NME banned lol.

The way ArenaNet goes about handling the community is awful, in my opinion. Sure, it’s one thing to say you don’t want to promise things and then renege on that and disappoint people hence everything they’re doing being shrouded in mystery, but not communicating with the playerbase at all is hardly a better alternative.

Take a leaf out of Yoshi’s book:

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/07/square-enix-suspends-final-fantasy-xiv-mac-sales-offers-refunds/

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/244811-NA-The-state-of-the-FFXIV-Mac-version-and-our-plans-for-the-future?p=3101723#post3101723

Anyone remember that CDI from a long time ago where people voted rangers and necros (and something else, possibly engis) as being the classes that needed the most attention?

Yeah, wonder what happened to that lol.

Given that the blood minion is probably the kittentest heal in the game and Signet of Vamp is rarely useful… Lol. I like you, Bhawb. But I have absolutely no idea how you continue to have any faith in ANet.

the krytan assassin.9235:

Now after 1 yr they suddenly say okey lets remove it, but this changes the meta alot. for example applied fortitude is mandatory for ele to survive in his current build state, this means that they will have to gear more tanky now. necro’s however don’t suffer the same problem because they got a 33k hp healthpool.

Whilst I largely agree with the premise of your post, I had to post just to ask that you don’t spread misinformation; necros do have a higher base health pool than eles (which is offset by paltry access to stability, vigor and on-demand boons in general, invulnerability, blinks etc.) but they too, in the current system, would have to spec for more vitality/toughness. 33k HP is not base. You would have to forgo damage for that.

cocowoushi.7150:

I’d suggest instead of asking for double adept/major traits in a line (I think it’s safe to say it’s just not going to happen. They put too much work in this new system to change it) make suggestions for better Grandmaster traits. The devs clearly want feedback on the kinds of traits classes get, but the likelihood of them changing the entire new mechanic just isn’t high.

On that note, it would’ve been nice for ANet to actually run this by us first BEFORE they went and put all that work into the new system, then we could’ve possibly avoided this entire mess.

I personally don’t like how limiting the new system looks like it’s shaped up to be; I’d rather they’d have given us the extra points/allowed us to continue to choose traits at each level and where to allocate our points, rather than this all-or-nothing approach that they seem to be adamant on ramming down our throats…

Also, I don’t want to be presumptuous so while there probably were people who found the current system confusing/difficult, I personally dislike changes made for the sake of making things more ‘simple’, given it wasn’t that complicated to begin with. I didn’t have any qualms with changing the traits from the old ‘30-30-0-0-10’ system to the ‘6-6-0-0-2’ system but it was just sort of unnecessary to me…

Lordrosicky.5813:

The point people make is that if you only balance every 6 months then you need to actually do something more substantial.

This will be the last balance patch till posssibly June time? In fact I would guess this as the last balance patch before the expansion.

Bearing in mind, this is just a preview. That said, I’m waiting with baited breath for what might be a plethora of ‘substantial’ nerfs hiding behind ANet’s curtain. How I love balance patches…

Bhawb.7408:

Usagi.4835:

The lack of build diversity is kind of depressing lol. I look at the other profession subforums and, by comparison, the necromancer forums are… dead. Hardly any new threads discussing new builds or anything.

Because Necromancer has essentially been unchanged in ages. Basically since launch there have been very few changes that fundamentally changed how the profession or builds within the profession were played. The big trait additions (namely Dhuumfire, Path of Corruption, and Deathly Perception) were the only things I can think of that really made people re-think how they built their characters, and made large playstyle differences.

Other professions have, comparatively, changed very significantly. There have been new optimal builds to find in PvE, whereas Necromancer is nearly irrelevant in PvE. There have been all kinds of changes in what people play in WvW, with Necromancer having basically been the same for a long time. And PvP Necromancer builds at the top level really haven’t changed a ton; even the power build that resurfaced a while ago was just the launch power build with some updates to the current meta with the new SR trait on top.

So if you are using the same weapons, nearly the same trait layout, and the same overall playstyle and gameplay goal with only runes/sigils and individual traits or skills here and there changing to make small optimizations, there won’t be much activity. Hell, even I quit playing the profession for a long time despite how invested I was in it.

Yeah, so much for that CDI. Waste of breath imo.

The lack of build diversity is kind of depressing lol. I look at the other profession subforums and, by comparison, the necromancer forums are… dead. Hardly any new threads discussing new builds or anything.

I would leave Reaper’s Protection alone. it would be an unnecessary nerf, particularly as other classes (namely, elementalist and mesmer) have similar traits as counters to CC but also better access to stability and more access to stunbreaks.