Guild Wars 2

Also you can turn off the compass thing if you like which will mean you’re not just following an arrow around.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, I’m saying I’m an editor by profession and I know how to read English and I can look at things with years of preconceptions because I was trained to. If you look at the words of the manifesto, they bear out what I’m saying and they don’t bear out what you’re saying.

Cool story. You don’t have to be an English editor to understand the manifesto or Colin’s words though.

Colin’s words overrule the words written in the manifesto. His word is the word of god so to speak.

And the fact of the matter is that Colin’s words don’t even contradict the manifesto. The manifesto doesn’t exclude gear grind from the philosophy. So this entire discussion is completely irrelevant as Colin himself said that gear grind is also part of their no-grind philosophy.

Tell me Vayne, since you studied the manifesto and everything Anet did so perfectly and you remember it so vividly, did the manifesto or Anet ever say that gear grind specifically is NOT included in the no-grind philosophy? I didn’t think so.

The rest of your post is therefor quite frankly irrelevant (hence I edited it out).

So you discount every single thing said at numerous conventions at the time about the manifesto. k, then.

We can let each person reading decide if that makes sense or not.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Calculate the cost for a full set of ascended armor. If you think that’s acceptable good for you. If you think it’s excessive I agree with you.

I agree…it’s excessive. The only saving grace is that I don’t feel like I need it…but yes, I never liked how ascended gear was implemented.

Celtic Lady.3729:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

I got 550g in my 1st month casually playing. Don’t see an issue

Guys, this dude is just making it all up. If you look at his other posts, you’ll see that this number keeps shifting. It was 300 g his first month, then it was 500 g his first month, now it’s 550 g his first month. My guess is he’s got around 2 – 5g in his pocket, if that.

Or he bought gems and sold them. Which could give you that amount instantly…but it means nothing.

DeadPresidentsII.1534:

Awesome thanks, so i should just focus on doing those heart objectives and the world events for now until the games opens up for me a little more or what? Also im a huge story nerd, does the story ever start getting to you or is it all just prime skip material?

Stories in MMOs don’t get as great as they do in single player games…at least I’ve never seen it happen. The ideas behind the stories however, can be amazing. It’s a matter of how much you go beyond what’s actually said. Let me give you an example of something that happened in this game.

Sometimes stuff happens in the world, that hints of stuff to come, but no one knows what it means. So one day, we’re hanging out in a zone called Kessex Hills. There’s this lake. And we’re swimming and boom, we hit an invisible barrier that had never been there before.

So we’re like wth. Then we start noticing some of the trees in the area had been logged, which had never existed before. No one knew why that was happening. We were all like talking and trying to figure out what was going on. A week or two later, the story starts up again, and we find that Kasmeer Meade, a mesmer we knew from previous stories, found a spell in the area, which she was able to remove, revealing a giant living tower build by krait in conjuction with the Nightmare court. But it was poisoned all along the base of the tower and we couldn’t get in.

We needed to gather spores from the tower in order to have an antidote to the toxin made so we could get in. That’s the type of story telling that happens in game.

But it’s never going to be as good as a single player game, for a whole host of reasons.

There’s plenty of story and lore though.

DeadPresidentsII.1534:

Vayne i understand what you are saying but that was not the difficulty i had in mind. I simply meant smarter opponents that would lead to more intricate fights that with the simple enemies i have encountered so far. But i absolutely believe you that the first 30 or so levels are a tutorial, which is one of the things that has kept me far away from MMO’s in the past. I hate having to push myself through that huge initial step. In my eyes a videogame should be enjoyable through and through but that’s a whole different discussion. Ohh and also thanks for all the replies guys

Leveling in this game can be mega fast and you can go into EotM or PvP to level here, unlike most games.

DeadPresidentsII.1534:

Andred.1087:

Oxidia.8103:

The real fun starts around 11pm on map chat doing world bosses.

I assume by “fun” you mean a sobering look at Internet youth culture that makes you question if humankind has any hope of surviving the next hundred years.

Basically what i meant LOL. Now lesbianest here, we wont survive the next 100 years but hey kitten it I wont have to worry about that. Now pertaining to the game itself, by fun i meant when do the enemies get challenging and wild, instead of the same enemies you see in any MMO. By fun i also meant, when do you, if ever that is, start exploring beautiful vistas or intricate dungeons ? Because not saying that i am not enjoying my time playing, but so far at lvl 13 everything is pretty basic and plain, the locations are mehhh, the story may as well not be there, and the enemies are just about what one would expect. I know i have barely scratches the surface, if that at this level but i was still expected much more after watching just about every review out there on the game before buying it.

Take your character into a higher level area and fight. Then the enemies are harder. You’re not limited to where you go. If you’re level 13 go fight level 18 creatures.

The first 20-30 levels of most games are basically tutorials, but really challenging content probably won’t happen until you’re closer to max level, unless you make your own challenges.

Solo some champs in zones a couple of levels higher than you if you want challenge.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Vayne.8563:

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

I still maintain my interpretation of the manifesto is right. I’d love Colin to come on here and answer my question about who wrote it.

Are you married?

I can see the scene, a few years after the marriage:

Vayne: “You know dear, I don’t think we’re married”

Partner: “What?!”

Vayne: “Our marriage was years ago, you can’t expect me to remember what I said that day”.

Partner: “We recorded it! You can watch right here!”

Vayne: “Still, I was just saying an intention, not necessarily what I was going to do.”

Partner: “You swore it!”

Vayne: “Maybe. But when I said ‘I do’, did I write that myself? Or did I read what someone else had written? You cannot hold me accountable for something I said that someone else had written. So, we’re not married. Bye.”

Nice hyperbole, but it doesn’t work like that in business. And anyone that has any experience would know it.

Promos are written by the writers or the advertising department. They are written and checked over, but it’s HIGHLY unlikely that they delved into every little nuance of every little word before it was read by the people writing it.

Anet marketing comes up with a promo, people READ the promo. What are the odds that at that time Colin sat down and had a deep discussion about what was meant by each line. Fans pour over this stuff like it’s some sort of holy writ. Developers sit down and say, yeah that sounds good, we’ll go with that. It’s really silly to think that they have deep discussions about every word of every add.

Now five years later, Colin is required to make a statement. He makes a statement. Do you think he tracked down the people who wrote it and asked what they meant?

Your attempt at humor is not really helpful to the conversation. Even, in the unlikely circumstance that Colin did have that conversation, do you now how many conversations he’s had since then.

No, I’d rather go with what Anet was saying at that time at conventions around the world. I remember what was said and I’m sure other people do.

You’re either conveniently forgetting it, or never saw those videos in the first place. Either way, it doesn’t make you right.

So you’re basically saying that we are right and you are wrong, that what is written in the manifesto might not even be written by Colin himself and is therefor irrelevant when Colin himself (the director of GW2 and who has the final say on core design principles such as the no-grind philosophy) said that his no-grind philosophy is about gear grind.

Nope, I’m saying I’m an editor by profession and I know how to read English and I can look at things with years of preconceptions because I was trained to. If you look at the words of the manifesto, they bear out what I’m saying and they don’t bear out what you’re saying.

But more to the point, at the time of the manifesto, there were numerous convention appearances by Anet, where Anet devs said EXACTLY what they meant.

So I’m saying my understanding of the manifesto comes from a combination of the actual words of the manifesto combined with what the devs said exhaustively at the time.

Surely if I misunderstood the manifesto, the stuff the devs were talking about at the time would have cleared up any misunderstanding.

I’m not sure what’s so hard to understand. After the manifesto appeared there were panels at PAX and at Gamescon and other places where we learned, very specifically, what was meant in the manifesto.

They referred to the manifesto back then when they had those panels and what they meant.

I’m taking them at their word then, because they certainly had a better idea of what they meant then. I’m sure they didn’t expect that document to be dissected five years later after so much time had passed. I’m sure they aren’t thinking about it every second of every day like some fans are.

So the information that was around at that time in quantity is what I base my interpretation of the manifesto on.

Not single line quotes five years later. Are you saying that a single line five years later is worth more than several convention panels worth of clarification?

Coffee.7058:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Oh, okay. lol I didn’t realize there are many trains left in the game. The only one that comes to mind atm is the Frostgorge Champ train.

Silverwaste, you have to logout and in a few times to get one or use group finder, but that is usually empty for myself.

The world boss train is still run too.

Bernie.8674:

pdavis.8031:

As far as evidence? I haven’t seen any yet. Everything said is that it takes a lot of materials/time. I am not denying that. Yes it takes a lot of materials, yes it takes a lot of time.

And time was also mentioned in the manifesto:

Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

Then again, technically you’re right. It doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun; instead you get to spend months or years.

Only if you’re forcing yourself to do stuff you don’t want to do. Since I got ALL my silk doing exactly what I wanted (something you generally can’t do in most MMOs), it didn’t suck a single minute of my time. Everything I do gives me gold, which is the game. Eventually I got the money to buy the silk that didn’t drop. But I was having fun doing ALL of it. That’s why I play games…to have fun.

In most games if you want a piece of armor with this stat, you have to raid. And since I dont’ enjoy raiding and since there’s no guarantee of drops in raids and I"d have to raid over and over again, that would be grinding to me. Because I have no other options.

Here you have options.

Bernie.8674:

Vayne.8563:

Silk isn’t an ascended mat. And you certainly don’t have to run dungeons for silk.

It’s effectively an ascended mat because you need 300 scraps of it for one bolt of damask. Damask is required for all ascended pieces. I have ascended mats coming out my ears. The limiting factor in my obtaining a full ascended set right now is the silk. Honestly, when most of us say that we’re required to grind for ascended gear, silk acquisition is at the heart of that grind.

Right but here’s the deal with silk. You make gold doing everything in this game. You can farm Orr or Silk, or the Silverwastes, or Frostgorge, or run dungeons. You can get silk from salvaging any 80th level cloth armor drop which you can get anywhere in the game, even from doing jumping puzzles.

The concept of grind was meant that you had to do one thing. I don’t have to do one thing to get silk. I can play the TP (if I were any good at it) and make enough gold to buy all the silk I need from the TP and some people do. I can run the Silverwastes and get a ton of silk which is why silk prices went so far down until recently. I was buying silk at 4 gold a stack at one point.

I can get 4 gold quite easily playing the game. If your focus is on the silk itself, and that’s all your doing, grinding silk, that’s a mental thing.

But if I’m playing the game and eventually I get what I need to buy the silk I didn’t incidentally pick up, I wouldn’t qualify it as grind.

But your definition anything you have to do repeatedly is grind, even if you would get it anyway just by playing.

If you stayed in Queensdale long enough because that’s what you’d like, as a level 80 character you’d be getting silk along the way.

Actually I think I know where I got the nine billion number from. It’s that Monty Python song I like Chinese where they said there’s 900,000,000 of them. Just stuck in my head, I suppose. Bad interpolation.

What Zenleto said is the other part that I forgot. This has been discussed multiple times since launch on the forums, which is why I responding with certainty.

No idea where the 9 billion number came up, I knew it was high, but I just picked one at random. It wasn’t worth googling.

My point is it was a completely new market for Anet, and we’re not.

Heisenbug.8135:

Astralporing.1957:

Heisenbug.8135:

Incredibly sad this option isn’t being provided to the loyal old players.

I’m quite sure that loyal players would not hesistate to buy the expansion for real money.

I am sure many would. Its about denying an option that should exist cause it exists for everything else that in the gem store. Anet wants the gold farmers there to keep the prices high but wont give the option that many old players would want.

It exists for everything in the game, but it doesn’t exist for the game itself. You still have to pay cash to buy the game even if your’e buying a second or third copy.

This is a new game, so it shouldn’t be an option.

It is completely impossible. They opened the Chinese server, because legally they couldn’t have copies in China without doing so, and China has 9 billion people.

Australia and New Zealand and SEA in general has always been able to buy Guild Wars 2 legally and use it here.

You think that 600 million people is a huge market, but it’s really not, since most of us who are going to play already bought the game.

It’s been out for 2.5 years.

China wasn’t just a server park it was a complete rewrite of the game to customize it for Chinese law and culture. It was a new market for Anet.

This is an existing market. There’s no reason for them to spend the money. And I’m in Australia, btw.

Short answer, not that we know of.

Longer answer if they haven’t done it yet it’s unlikely they will now.

Cypix Kull.5492:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

I don’t know dude, I find sPvP and WvW pretty fun and I don’t even have to waste hours and hours on it, nor does the OP. He could jump right in and go straight to the good stuff. No need to do hours upon hours of boring stuff.

If you’re saying that you can sPvP right out of the intro, I don’t think that’s actually possible for new players to do any longer. I heard you have to get to level 22 to sPvP now.

You can always get to PvP if you know how. You can go through the gate in your home city to Lion’s Arch and go through the gate into the mists lobby. This not only allows you to enter PvP but it unlocks the PvP icon on top of your screen.

They changed it. I think it’s level 20+ or something to get in to spvp.

I don’t see any lvl 2 naked norn rangers with purple mustache anymore. That’s my trusty indicator.

Nope, you can still go through the portal, at least as of last week when I did it on a new account.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

We have no idea what the majority or minority is. Anet has a kitten ed good idea of how many people stopped logging in. Why is this is hard for people to get

I did not claim otherwise.

But that’s my point. Companies don’t make huge decisions like this without compelling evidence. We don’t get to see that evidence. If it were happening back then, it’s hardly the thing a company would announce.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Listen to what you’re saying. That they changed direction “in the blink of an eye”. How do you know this?

If in the video game industry one year is barely any time at all, then how long could two months possibly be? Thus, the blink of an eye.

Vayne.8563:

You don’t think there was serious debate and conversation, even resistence to these changes?

I really don’t, no. Because serious debate usually doesn’t happen when you’re panicking. Which they very much did.

Vayne.8563:

You think Anet thinks with one mind and they all said, yeah, let’s kitten off our prime fan base. What is the liklihood of that?

And yet they still went through with it! I don’t care whether their intention was to kitten off their prime fan base or not. The fact of the matter is that they did just that!

I mean, I don’t know about you, but I remember the firestorm it created. I remember the Ascended thread. I remember the pages upon pages of people who begged Anet not to go through with this.

And I remember ANet going through with it anyway in its messy form and just tossing that thread into the recycle bin.

Vayne.8563:

How much more likely is that they made this game that cost millions and millions of dollars, they saw an alarming trend of people leaving, asked some questions, made some tough decisions and in spite of everything felt they had to make a choice.

So then why not make a different choice? Do you really expect me to believe that Ascended was their only choice? That somehow, they were so incompetent that the only choice they could make is the laziest choice that all other MMOs have relied on to this day?

And once again, now that things are supposedly better, why not, oh I don’t know…fix Ascended so that we can go back to having that game where BiS gear was an easy process for everyone, casual or otherwise?

Vayne.8563:

I’d lay money that my interpretation is probably closer than yours.

I don’t care what you’d lay money on.

One year is barely any time in game development. But that’s not the entire video game industry.

Games have a business plan and a timetable. If they have more than an expected drop off in player base, that one year is a VERY long time. We’re not talking about game development we’re talking about game sales now and game longevity. Saying a year isn’t long related to that shows a complete lack of understanding of the industry. Hell most games sell 90% of the copies they EVER sell in the first three months of launch.

Anet launched the game they saw a huge fall off and if you do nothing then, and you wait a year, you end up with no game. You may not agree with what Anet did, but that doesn’t really matter, because it wasn’t your millions of dollars at stake.

They saw something needed to be done and waiting a year to do it would have gutted the game completely. I’m glad you’re not in charge, or I might not even be playing this game now.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Listen to what you’re saying. That they changed direction “in the blink of an eye”. How do you know this? You don’t think there was serious debate and conversation, even resistence to these changes? You think Anet thinks with one mind and they all said, yeah, let’s kitten off our prime fan base. What is the liklihood of that?

How much more likely is that they made this game that cost millions and millions of dollars, they saw an alarming trend of people leaving, asked some questions, made some tough decisions and in spite of everything felt they had to make a choice.

I’d lay money that my interpretation is probably closer than yours.

I think that the, “blink of an eye,” bit might be relative. The game took several years to develop but that change was decided upon within a very few months of launch. Not a literal blink of an eye, but very quick.

Sure it was decided when the game looked like it was flagging so soon after launch. I was on the forums back then and every post was a post about nothing to do. They needed to change something that they could implement quickly that would take a long time…at least I’m thinking that’s how the conversation went.

Sure we could make a new dungeon…but it would take a few months and after people beat it you’d be back to square one.

Ascended stuff fit the bill, at the time. And I don’t like it any more than anyone else. I’ve never liked ascended gear and I’ve never been a proponent of it. But I can certainly see why the company would have gone there.

I was on the forums back then too. There were a number of posts about nothing to do. A vocal minority of posts/posters. As we have been told many times (by posters active in this thread) the forums represent a minority of players who are not representative of the player base as a whole.

All I am saying is that a 180 degree change a couple of months after launch of a game that had been in development for several years might not be a literal blink of an eye, but the phrase does describe the situation fairly well.

We have no idea what the majority or minority is. Anet has a kitten ed good idea of how many people stopped logging in. Why is this is hard for people to get.

They invested millions in a game, they saw people stop logging in ( and I believe that’s the case because I could see it back then) and they made the changes THEY thought were necessary.

They may have been right and they may have been wrong but I can’t imagine that made those decisions easily. They made them relatively fast, because their game was at stake.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

The Silverwastes are one of the best designed areas of the game. There’s stuff there for everyone. If you want to stay there early on and challenge yourself against modrem you can. If you want to hang out for the meta event you can. If you want to run around in a train and farm chests you can. If you want to do an amazing jumping puzzle that spans an entire zone, you can.

You forgot the labyrinth. As for the design, yes, it’s almost as brilliant as one of those business cards with ‘turn over’ printed on both sides, because after a week, maybe two, that’s what it feels like.

There’s no substance to the Silverwastes. It’s a mini-game. It’s SAB without the nostalgic quirkiness. It, along with Dry Top, could have been so much more, but as presented, it’s just another missed opportunity in a game increasingly rife with missed opportunities. And these zones are ‘forerunners’ to what we’ll see in HoT. Joy.

Vayne.8563:

There are probably a small percentage of the playerbase that hates the Silverwastes, but it seems to have been a hit with players.

There’s probably a small percentage of the playerbase that loves the Silverwastes, but it seems to have become a boring grind for players.

This is true of all new content. People flock to it, play it to death and it becomes a grind. Welcome to MMOs. You must be new here.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Listen to what you’re saying. That they changed direction “in the blink of an eye”. How do you know this? You don’t think there was serious debate and conversation, even resistence to these changes? You think Anet thinks with one mind and they all said, yeah, let’s kitten off our prime fan base. What is the liklihood of that?

How much more likely is that they made this game that cost millions and millions of dollars, they saw an alarming trend of people leaving, asked some questions, made some tough decisions and in spite of everything felt they had to make a choice.

I’d lay money that my interpretation is probably closer than yours.

I think that the, “blink of an eye,” bit might be relative. The game took several years to develop but that change was decided upon within a very few months of launch. Not a literal blink of an eye, but very quick.

Sure it was decided when the game looked like it was flagging so soon after launch. I was on the forums back then and every post was a post about nothing to do. They needed to change something that they could implement quickly that would take a long time…at least I’m thinking that’s how the conversation went.

Sure we could make a new dungeon…but it would take a few months and after people beat it you’d be back to square one.

Ascended stuff fit the bill, at the time. And I don’t like it any more than anyone else. I’ve never liked ascended gear and I’ve never been a proponent of it. But I can certainly see why the company would have gone there.

tigirius.9014:

Vayne.8563:

tigirius.9014:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Anet absolute changed direction when they brought out ascended gear. 100% true. So?

So?

The fact they changed direction in the blink of an eye is the “So”!

They made this manifesto, made a kittening huge deal about it BY calling it a manifesto, and then they couldn’t even wait two kittening months before completely changing direction and leaving skid marks in the road while they were at, they turned so fast!

Vayne.8563:

Sometimes you have to change direction.

Sure. But maybe wait and see how that coat of paint looks dried before saying the wet application was a failure and dumping a different coat of paint on top of the still wet coat. Cause let me tell you, two wet coats of different colors creates a ton of issues down the road.

Much like what the snap decision implementation of Ascended did.

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t mean you intended to mislead nor does it make you a liar.

But regardless of their intention, they still wound up misleading people because of it, and they have still failed to set things right to this day.

And I would argue it’s the failing to set it right again that creates the perception of lying.

Same applies to SAB, actually. But that’s a different topic, so I won’t harp on that past this.

Vayne.8563:

It’s entirely possible that Anet overreacted with the way ascended gear was introduced.

Entirely possible? No, no. They definitely overreacted and panicked. The haphazard implementation of Ascended is more than enough proof that they were just throwing darts blindly, hoping something would land even the tiniest inch close to the board.

Vayne.8563:

Anet has always had a tendency to over-react.

Blizzard suffers from that, too. It’s the reason their newest expansion is starting to catch really heavy flak from within the community.

ANet would do well not to make the same mistakes.

Vayne.8563:

Nightfall came out and they recorrrected again. I don’t know why anyone should be surprised.

They sure are dragging their kitten on re-correcting their overreaction with Ascended, seeing as it still remains crafting and RNG only.

Whatever the reasoning behind it, it’s been a huge grind since they implemented it, it’s forced people of all walks to have to grind for mostly one material, it’s unevenly balanced, and it even requires players who are not normally crafters to now have to deal with the TP to get enough mats to do something they don’t like doing, it’s the crafting equivalent of forcing RPers or Casual players to dungeon. It’s wrong on all fronts and now that they have enough money coming in there’s no excuse not to fix it.

There are more ways to get ascended mats now than doing dungeons. In fact most people have too many ascended mats now. Some would say that is fixed.

Silk would like to have a word with you.

Silk isn’t an ascended mat. And you certainly don’t have to run dungeons for silk.

tigirius.9014:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Anet absolute changed direction when they brought out ascended gear. 100% true. So?

So?

The fact they changed direction in the blink of an eye is the “So”!

They made this manifesto, made a kittening huge deal about it BY calling it a manifesto, and then they couldn’t even wait two kittening months before completely changing direction and leaving skid marks in the road while they were at, they turned so fast!

Vayne.8563:

Sometimes you have to change direction.

Sure. But maybe wait and see how that coat of paint looks dried before saying the wet application was a failure and dumping a different coat of paint on top of the still wet coat. Cause let me tell you, two wet coats of different colors creates a ton of issues down the road.

Much like what the snap decision implementation of Ascended did.

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t mean you intended to mislead nor does it make you a liar.

But regardless of their intention, they still wound up misleading people because of it, and they have still failed to set things right to this day.

And I would argue it’s the failing to set it right again that creates the perception of lying.

Same applies to SAB, actually. But that’s a different topic, so I won’t harp on that past this.

Vayne.8563:

It’s entirely possible that Anet overreacted with the way ascended gear was introduced.

Entirely possible? No, no. They definitely overreacted and panicked. The haphazard implementation of Ascended is more than enough proof that they were just throwing darts blindly, hoping something would land even the tiniest inch close to the board.

Vayne.8563:

Anet has always had a tendency to over-react.

Blizzard suffers from that, too. It’s the reason their newest expansion is starting to catch really heavy flak from within the community.

ANet would do well not to make the same mistakes.

Vayne.8563:

Nightfall came out and they recorrrected again. I don’t know why anyone should be surprised.

They sure are dragging their kitten on re-correcting their overreaction with Ascended, seeing as it still remains crafting and RNG only.

Whatever the reasoning behind it, it’s been a huge grind since they implemented it, it’s forced people of all walks to have to grind for mostly one material, it’s unevenly balanced, and it even requires players who are not normally crafters to now have to deal with the TP to get enough mats to do something they don’t like doing, it’s the crafting equivalent of forcing RPers or Casual players to dungeon. It’s wrong on all fronts and now that they have enough money coming in there’s no excuse not to fix it.

There are more ways to get ascended mats now than doing dungeons. In fact most people have too many ascended mats now. Some would say that is fixed.

Celtic Lady.3729:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

I don’t know dude, I find sPvP and WvW pretty fun and I don’t even have to waste hours and hours on it, nor does the OP. He could jump right in and go straight to the good stuff. No need to do hours upon hours of boring stuff.

If you’re saying that you can sPvP right out of the intro, I don’t think that’s actually possible for new players to do any longer. I heard you have to get to level 22 to sPvP now.

You can always get to PvP if you know how. You can go through the gate in your home city to Lion’s Arch and go through the gate into the mists lobby. This not only allows you to enter PvP but it unlocks the PvP icon on top of your screen.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Anet absolute changed direction when they brought out ascended gear. 100% true. So?

So?

The fact they changed direction in the blink of an eye is the “So”!

They made this manifesto, made a kittening huge deal about it BY calling it a manifesto, and then they couldn’t even wait two kittening months before completely changing direction and leaving skid marks in the road while they were at, they turned so fast!

Vayne.8563:

Sometimes you have to change direction.

Sure. But maybe wait and see how that coat of paint looks dried before saying the wet application was a failure and dumping a different coat of paint on top of the still wet coat. Cause let me tell you, two wet coats of different colors creates a ton of issues down the road.

Much like what the snap decision implementation of Ascended did.

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t mean you intended to mislead nor does it make you a liar.

But regardless of their intention, they still wound up misleading people because of it, and they have still failed to set things right to this day.

And I would argue it’s the failing to set it right again that creates the perception of lying.

Same applies to SAB, actually. But that’s a different topic, so I won’t harp on that past this.

Vayne.8563:

It’s entirely possible that Anet overreacted with the way ascended gear was introduced.

Entirely possible? No, no. They definitely overreacted and panicked. The haphazard implementation of Ascended is more than enough proof that they were just throwing darts blindly, hoping something would land even the tiniest inch close to the board.

Vayne.8563:

Anet has always had a tendency to over-react.

Blizzard suffers from that, too. It’s the reason their newest expansion is starting to catch really heavy flak from within the community.

ANet would do well not to make the same mistakes.

Vayne.8563:

Nightfall came out and they recorrrected again. I don’t know why anyone should be surprised.

They sure are dragging their kitten on re-correcting their overreaction with Ascended, seeing as it still remains crafting and RNG only.

Listen to what you’re saying. That they changed direction “in the blink of an eye”. How do you know this? You don’t think there was serious debate and conversation, even resistence to these changes? You think Anet thinks with one mind and they all said, yeah, let’s kitten off our prime fan base. What is the liklihood of that?

How much more likely is that they made this game that cost millions and millions of dollars, they saw an alarming trend of people leaving, asked some questions, made some tough decisions and in spite of everything felt they had to make a choice.

I’d lay money that my interpretation is probably closer than yours.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Promos are written by the writers or the advertising department.

Per the specifications of the development and marketing team. Or are you going to tell me that each department just does its own thing and they never actually meaningfully communicate between one another?

Cause you know what, I could believe that considering messes like traits and SAB.

Vayne.8563:

Anet marketing comes up with a promo, people READ the promo. What are the odds that at that time Colin sat down and had a deep discussion about what was meant by each line.

Then they shouldn’t have called it a manifesto if they weren’t going to actually take it seriously.

Manifesto is not a word you throw around lightly thanks to certain events throughout history.

Vayne.8563:

Fans pour over this stuff like it’s some sort of holy writ.

Because it was called a kittening manifesto. What the hell do you expect with marketing like that? ANet basically walked out and declared they were going to change how the MMO world MMO’d!

Vayne.8563:

Now five years later, Colin is required to make a statement. He makes a statement. Do you think he tracked down the people who wrote it and asked what they meant?

Anything the writers write, they write for ANet. The position they write for, and what mean, they mean for ANet. What the writers meant is what Anet meant, and what ANet meant was what the writers meant.

So when Colin says “I’m going to clarify this position and tell you guys that the anti-grind philosophy refers to gear grind”, that’s ANet’s position, that’s the writer’s position.

The writers wrote it for the company. The writers weren’t going to write something that the company didn’t agree with. Not when ANet hyped it up by calling it a kittening manifesto.

You don’t call something a manifesto and then turn around and go “Yeah, you know, whatever.”

At least, not if you want to be taken seriously.

Vayne.8563:

Your attempt at humor is not really helpful to the conversation.

Vayne.8563:

Whether or not you find the game grindy, the forum is definitely a grind. lol

Oh yeah, but your attempt at humor; that was totally helpful to the conversation.

Vayne.8563:

No, I’d rather go with what Anet was saying at that time at conventions around the world. I remember what was said and I’m sure other people do.

Well, hey, if what they said back then is so much more important, then once again, ANet has still managed to break one of their selling points by introducing Ascended and taking away the ability of players to be in BiS gear by level 80.

Anet absolute changed direction when they brought out ascended gear. 100% true. So?

Sometimes you have to change direction. It doesn’t mean you intended to mislead nor does it make you a liar.

It’s entirely possible that Anet overreacted with the way ascended gear was introduced. Anet has always had a tendency to over-react.

Complaint: Prophecies is too long and slow moving.
Answer: Come out with Factions that you can Finish in a weekend and you fly through leveling.

Nightfall came out and they recorrrected again. I don’t know why anyone should be surprised.

Brahmincorle.1264:

They advertised GW2 as a complete product which include all future updates for free. This was obvious lie which finaly solidified my stance towards the current policy of Anet and i rather subed for 12,99€ each month to other game. I have no problem with spending money on games but this was just pure money grab and I can’t stand it.

I’d love to see where they advertised this. I’m pretty sure I’ve been following this game since it was announced and never saw that stated anywhere.

They did say there would be no monthly fee. They didn’t say that future content would never involve a charge.

If you make this kind of statement I hope you’re prepared to back it up.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

Promos are written by the writers or the advertising department. They are written and checked over, but it’s HIGHLY unlikely that they delved into every little nuance of every little word before it was read by the people writing it.

In other words, Marketing gets to write whatever it wants, even if it’s something that is not in the game itself. Which means, it’s a lie. Ergo, the Manifesto is a lie.

Vayne.8563:

No, I’d rather go with what Anet was saying at that time at conventions around the world. I remember what was said and I’m sure other people do.

Sure. Prove it. I can show you links proving I’m right. Can you show me links to what ArenaNet would have said at conventions that would make you right?

(Nope, you can’t.)

Do you remember what you wrote above about people making assumptions and not being able to realize they’re assumptions? Well Vayne, it doesn’t get any worse than using “I’m sure other people agree with me” as your main argument.

Writing what you want isn’t necessarily a lie. Marketing doesn’t necessarily have all the nuances of what’s going on and sometimes doesn’t get it right.

Your’e saying anything that anyone says that isn’t right is a lie. That’s very unforgiving. I’m not making assumptions. I’m simply saying we don’t really know, so I’’ll give the benefit of the doubt. You’re making definitive statements.

And this absolutely the last time I’ll answer you because I’ve done my work here.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

I still maintain my interpretation of the manifesto is right. I’d love Colin to come on here and answer my question about who wrote it.

Are you married?

I can see the scene, a few years after the marriage:

Vayne: “You know dear, I don’t think we’re married”

Partner: “What?!”

Vayne: “Our marriage was years ago, you can’t expect me to remember what I said that day”.

Partner: “We recorded it! You can watch right here!”

Vayne: “Still, I was just saying an intention, not necessarily what I was going to do.”

Partner: “You swore it!”

Vayne: “Maybe. But when I said ‘I do’, did I write that myself? Or did I read what someone else had written? You cannot hold me accountable for something I said that someone else had written. So, we’re not married. Bye.”

Nice hyperbole, but it doesn’t work like that in business. And anyone that has any experience would know it.

Promos are written by the writers or the advertising department. They are written and checked over, but it’s HIGHLY unlikely that they delved into every little nuance of every little word before it was read by the people writing it.

Anet marketing comes up with a promo, people READ the promo. What are the odds that at that time Colin sat down and had a deep discussion about what was meant by each line. Fans pour over this stuff like it’s some sort of holy writ. Developers sit down and say, yeah that sounds good, we’ll go with that. It’s really silly to think that they have deep discussions about every word of every add.

Now five years later, Colin is required to make a statement. He makes a statement. Do you think he tracked down the people who wrote it and asked what they meant?

Your attempt at humor is not really helpful to the conversation. Even, in the unlikely circumstance that Colin did have that conversation, do you now how many conversations he’s had since then.

No, I’d rather go with what Anet was saying at that time at conventions around the world. I remember what was said and I’m sure other people do.

You’re either conveniently forgetting it, or never saw those videos in the first place. Either way, it doesn’t make you right.

Test.8734:

pdavis.8031:

So ANY sort of repetition is considered grind. Gotcha

Actually, per your own words…

pdavis.8031:

Can you site any example in game where you are required (as in having no other alternative) to do the same content, kill the same mobs, run the same events in order to craft ascended gear?

You asked for an example where repetition is necessary to craft ascended gear. I have given you exactly what you asked for.

pdavis.8031:

Also in the clarification Anet said that Legendaries were acceptable, in that they are cosmetic/prestige items and not required for BiS or for progression. This also has been pointed out several times, which you seem to ignore.

Already replied to that:

As Vayne mentioned earlier in this topic, ArenaNet’s exact words were, “We don’t want players to grind”. ArenaNet did not say, “We don’t want players to be forced to grind”. They did not say “We don’t want players to think there is a need to grind”.

No, their exact words were, “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”.

The idea that there is an amount of grind that is acceptable is a new creation that goes against what they have stated in the manifesto.

pdavis.8031:

Grind, as stated by Anet, and many other sources, is defined as the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content.

Bzzzzz! Wrong! Again, you are making conclusions out of thin air. ArenaNet has never stated anything even remotely similar to grind being abouy players having to “advance their character level”. Vayne’s theory that, for ArenaNet, “grind = levelling” has been proved to be wrong.

Vayne.8563:

No more reason to respond to you. I gave you specifics you ignore them. You gave me assumptions and refuse to acknowledge they are assumptions.

I’ll stay with my opinion that most reasonable people have stopped listening to you a long time ago and bowed out of this. I’ll do the same. Have fun.

I gave you evidence and you ignore them. I gave you links and citations to which you cannot counter argument, and you pretend they don’t exist.

It’s ironic that you mention assumptions and the refusal to acknowledge that they are assumptions right before stating that “most reasonable people have stopped listening” to me. In a typical Vayne argument, you refuse to see the facts and instead returns to the “most reasonable people/most people I know/all my friends agree with me” assumption.

I remember how, a looooong time ago, you claimed your interpretation of the Manifesto was right because you had asked other editors about it and they had shared your conclusions. It’s interesting that you gave more value to the opinion of invisible editors than to the ArenaNet’s statements I have been throwing at you and that you fail to acknowledge.

Sorry Vayne, your assumptions cannot defeat my facts. The Manifesto is, and has always been, a lie.

I still maintain my interpretation of the manifesto is right. I’d love Colin to come on here and answer my question about who wrote it.

I don’t know, it was fun for me at level 11. If you want something more challenging, just fight stuff of a higher level than you.

But then, I don’t know your definition of fun. What is it about the game that you want?

CETheLucid.3964:

Vayne.8563:

I’ll stay with my opinion that most reasonable people have stopped listening to you a long time ago and bowed out of this. I’ll do the same. Have fun.

Yeah, pretty much. This 31 page post of back and forth is waaay too grindy for my blood.

That’s something I think we can all agree one. Whether or not you find the game grindy, the forum is definitely a grind. lol

It’s not binary decision, yes or no. That’s because there could be different versions of the game. The standard version may not come with a character slot and the deluxe version might, giving more value to the deluxe version.

We simply won’t know until they tell us.

I agree OP. Thanks for posting this.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

You have a bunch of individual statements that have no substance.

You have no individual statement. Nothing at all. Ergo, all you have is the “it” you describe here:

Vayne.8563:

It adds nothing at all to any argument, it’s not provable and therefore, it’s bad form.

So I’m happy we both agree your empty conjectures are bad form.

Still waiting for an answer on “We don’t want players to grind” versus all the rewards for grinding the game had at release.

No more reason to respond to you. I gave you specifics you ignore them. You gave me assumptions and refuse to acknowledge they are assumptions.

I’ll stay with my opinion that most reasonable people have stopped listening to you a long time ago and bowed out of this. I’ll do the same. Have fun.

Test.8734:

pdavis.8031:

Ascended wasnt released at launch. That came much later.

Ascended was planned at launch. At least that’s what ArenaNet said following the huge backlash after ascended’s release. You can claim they were lying about that (too), but it’s what it is.

pdavis.8031:

Therefore Anet has stuck by what they said in the Manifesto. Even with the introduction of ascended.

Ignoring how that quote doesn’t make sense (the introduction of ascended goes completely against what they said in the Manifesto), ascended isn’t the only issue.

As Vayne mentioned earlier in this topic, ArenaNet’s exact words were, “We don’t want players to grind”. ArenaNet did not say, “We don’t want players to be forced to grind”. They did not say “We don’t want players to think there is a need to grind”.

No, their exact words were, “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”.

And that is a lie. If it were true and they didn’t want players to grind, they wouldn’t have linked some of the greatest rewards in the game – legendaries – to grind. If they wanted, they could have made it impossible to grind, thus really fulfilling the idea that they don’t want players to grind because “no one finds it fun”. Yet they didn’t. Because they lied.

In fact, at the written clarification of the Manifesto, which I have linked a few posts ago, ArenaNet claims GW2 is not about “grinding for a future fun reward”. Yet that’s pretty much what the process to acquire a legendary is.

pdavis.8031:

Can you site any example in game where you are required (as in having no other alternative) to do the same content, kill the same mobs, run the same events in order to craft ascended gear?

Yes. Everywhere.

Do you know why? Because if you kill every enemy in the game in every map and do all events and all dungeons and everything once and exactly once… You still won’t have enough to make a full set of ascended gear. You need repetition in order to do it. You need to grind it. Or you simply won’t have it.

Repeating many different things once doesn’t equal grind. Doing the same thing over and over equals grind.

Making up your own definitions won’t help you win arguments.

Test.8734:

pdavis.8031:

just on this part. If the game evolved past what was originally envisioned, is that a lie?

Too bad the Manifesto was used as one of the main marketing tool during release, when ArenaNet had already went against what it says. If you say your intention was to do something while you know what you have actually done is the opposite… Well, that’s pretty much a lie.

Vayne.8563:

What you’re saying is the obvious, reasonable response.

Again, you are ignoring the evidence – the links, the quotes and etc – to go with your usual “but most people/reasonable people/people I know agree with me”. That’s bad form, Vayne.

Bad form? LMFAO.

You have a bunch of individual statements that have no substance. Simplest example is you depend on the statement that Anet was always planning on releasing another tier of gear before launch.

But there’s no mention in that single line quote about how the gear was to be attained. How “grindy” attaining it would be. You absolutely refuse to acknowledge the FACT that by the time ascended gear was actually released it could have substantially changed from Anet’s original plan.

Now, if it has changed, (and there’s no reason to think it didn’t, considering the iterative nature of Anet), then you have absolutely no grounds to believe they were lying. After all, there was a two year period between the statements of the manifesto and the release of ascended gear.

I believe (and I have reason to believe it) that ascended gear was introduced IN THE FORM IT CURRENTLY EXIST, due to reactions of the playerbase during the first months of the game.

Now whether you believe the same or not is irrelevant. You’re taking one sentence about ascended gear and making all sort of assumptions about what that was going to be, then you’re telling me it’s bad form for not believing your so called facts.

What you have is conjecture to support your theory.

It’s reasonable to give someone the benefit of the doubt without hard evidence. I won’t say they didn’t lie and I won’t say they did. I will say there’s plenty of room for doubt and only someone who has an absolute agenda, ie they don’t like the game, is going to jump on the they lied bandwagon.

It adds nothing at all to any argument, it’s not provable and therefore, it’s bad form.

Zaruna.3812:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Terrahero.9358:

If you only play WvW and are entirely satisfied with the professions and playstyles you currently have then there is very little reason to get HoT.

Except those with HoT will be able to use their specializations and new class IN WvW and on those new WvW maps which will be easier to play on if you have the xpac as those maps will incorporate things that can only be used with masteries, which you can only get by getting the xpac.

So there’s that.

Essentially those with the xpac WILL have an advantage on those new WvW maps over those that don’t.

If that’s the case then that’s totally messed up. XD You already got upscaled people giving you a disadvantage on every WvW maps, having no specializations or masteries on a map where it’s needed to compete would be another disadvantage, more rage from commanders and other players who will blame the loss on the ones not having expansions.

Missing a new class in WvW battle might not be such a big deal, but considering some specialization might have a certain CC that will change the outcome of a battle would be.

To the other comments about the map, you can see on the trailer that it has alot of climbin points, cliffs, edges to fall of from. while in WvW the surroundings of a battle do make an impact, necro fears to drop people off wouldn’t be a fair way to win and far from fun. Open field fights can give you an upperhand against a strong melee train.

I mean, either the map is huge and they’ve only shown the bad parts, or it really is all that bad. XD Look at the high stairs, the fights near the edge off the cliffs, or the bridges far up in the sky… how’s it not looking like EoTM?

It’s messed up to add stuff and then charge for it? k, then.

Zero Day.2594:

Diovid.9506:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Apparently, specializations are going to be a much bigger thing than what players may think. There’ll be a whole weak devoted to each one of them.

To be fair, there may be other reasons for that. Such as that some of them are not yet in a state to be shown (like the Revenant’s other legends). Alternatively this might just be chosen as a strategy to maintain hype.

I’m not saying they won’t be a big deal. I mean with a new weapon, a new healing skill, new utility skills, a new elite skill, new traits and a changed profession mechanic they sound like quite the big deal.

Besides what he said about maintaining hype, they could also be stretching out their development cycles.

Think about it, there are 8 classes +1 coming, total of 9… they’re going to spend 9 weeks releasing weekly information about the specs. 9 weeks is just a bit more than 2 months.

Not sure how they will be able to maintain the hype when (I personally believe) game will probably be released mid to end of summer. Weekly information is nice and all but yeah…

But most people don’t follow the game as closely as people who visit forums all the time do. Surely most players seldom visit forums or websites. Not everything is done for us, because we are definitely the minority.

If you have stuff shown once a week or every week, it gets more attention at more fan sites. Which means people who more casually follow stuff are likely to see something that piques their interest.

Having something at MMORPG.com every week for 9 weeks is more exposure, whether it bothers the people that follow religiously or not.

LionHeart.2804:

For me, I wanted the daily activity participation (hardly see the daily when Sanctum sprint is active )
and upon arriving, I floated around for 3 minutes as ball of fog, and then the match was over, I got my daily. Wtf… meh, exits.
I think I’ve only played S.S.S 3 times since GW2 has been out.

Being that ball of light is one of the most fun parts of South Sun Survival. You can pick up energy by running over the energy orbs and use it to set traps for those still living. There’s achievements for doing that as well if you’re into that sort of thing, but it’s massively fun to charge up, find a player and lay traps for them, then watch them fall into those traps.

pdavis.8031:

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

Maybe you weren’t there or maybe you don’t remember. Maybe Colin doesn’t remember what was said at those panels but I do remember.

They gave examples of exactly what they meant. They referred to it directly at that time. What’s more likely to be accurate, something said at the time, or something said five years later?

Vayne.8563:

They gave the example of what they meant at that time.

Guess what? I was here at the time. I remember. And those examples you mentioned?

Here is what they wrote at the time of the Manifesto. And here it says:

ArenaNet

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

“Future fun reward”? Do you think “levelling” is a “future fun reward”?

See, Vayne, that’s the difference between you and me. I can provide evidence to what I’m saying. I can show you where ArenaNet said “We don’t want players to grind”, I can show you quotes describing how they were not talking of grind as levelling only, I can show you where ArenaNet said that by grind they mean gear (hint: the latter is in my signature).

What can you do? Do you have even a single link quoting ArenaNet saying they saw grind as level grind only? You claim ArenaNet gave “examples” that reinforce your point, but you eternally fail to link them. Your main argument is…

Vayne.8563:

In my mind, and I think in the mind of most reasonable people.

Yeah, sorry buddy. Whatever you think “most reasonable people” means, well, it’s just your opinion. I’m argumenting with facts.

And the fact here is: the Manifesto was a lie. Has always been.

just on this part. If the game evolved past what was originally envisioned, is that a lie?

If you stated when you were young that you were never getting married. But grew up, began to view life very differently, and ended up getting married, does that make you a liar?
Anet envisioned a game where grind was not required for BiS gear. Then the game evolved and ascended was introduced. You can still craft ascended by not grinding at all. Does that mean what they originally envisioned is no longer applicable?
Can you site any example in game where you are required (as in having no other alternative) to do the same content, kill the same mobs, run the same events in order to craft ascenascended gear? Is any instinces where only one boss, or type of mob drops the needed items to craft ascended great?

What you’re saying is the obvious, reasonable response. Some people would rather malign people because it makes them feel good somehow. Those people aren’t going to change their mind, no matter how reasonable what you’re saying is.

The only thing you can really do is continue to be reasonable and hope most of the people reading know the difference between intentions and what ends up happening. We all intend things all the time, not all of which come to pass. It doesn’t make us liars.

I sure hope the people calling Anet liars don’t extent that kind of judgement to those in their social circles.

Chris, I’m going to miss you. Good luck wherever you end up.

Test.8734:

lordkrall.7241:

Test.8734:

Thus how small the expansion appears to be. It would be more a last, desperate effort while trying to prevent key people (like the Lead Producer) from leaving the company, than something carefully planned and polished.

Are we in bizarro world now? Are you saying that ArenaNet did not just lose Chris Whiteside, who was Lead Producer?

So Chris is in charge of overseeing a project. That’s what producers do. And you know, I’m going to miss Chris a lot, but I’m not sure that producers ever get heavily involved in the actual work of producing something. Not to mention, I’m not sure that Chris is the lead producer of Heart of Thorns. That is to say, it’s a new expansion.

Chris seems to have been more involved in the original while completely different people were working on Heart of Thorns. Do we even know that Chris was heavily involved in it?

It’s entirely possible that Chris was handing Guild Wars 2 and someone else is lead producer for Heart of Thorns.

Do you know, or are you guessing?

For the living story it’s broken into two parts. Season 1 is completely gone and can’t be replayed. Season 2 generally consists of a number of story instances per chapter, which can be purchsed for gems (or in game gold turned into gems). It costs 200 gems per chapter to unlock each chapter.

The rewards aren’t uber great, but there are achievements associated with each chapter if you’re into that sort of thing.

If not you can always look up the story, or even play through it with someone else who unlocked it. The downside to that is you get no rewards or achievements…not even any drops since there are no drops inside living stories, the rewards at at the end. As far as I know, no one does LS for rewards though. They do it to experience the story.

As for armor and weapons, ascended is the top tier of weapons, and the only way to get them guaranteed is to craft them yourself. You can play any content of the game except for the highest level fractals without upgrading your gear. If you don’t have ascended gear now, I’d consider getting it a long term goal.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

It would be lovely if you could actually follow the conversation.

It would be lovely if you could actually follow Colin’s quote.

Vayne.8563:

I’m referring to what was said at the time by Anet employees at numerous conventions after the manifesto.

And all those things are irrelevant, as per Colin’s most recent clarification.

According to Colin, what was actually meant was gear grind.

Vayne.8563:

Specifically about the line about not having to grind to have fun, a line from the manifesto itself. And in those instances, the Shadow Behemonth WAS used an example. Not a theory. Not a guess. It’s a fact.

It’s also a fact that Colin has stated that anything involving their anti-grind philosophy was about gear grind.

Vayne.8563:

They gave the example of what they meant at that time.

And clearly they didn’t actually mean it since Colin has corrected us otherwise in this thread, telling us that, and I will repeat again, they meant gear grind.

Vayne.8563:

Whether you want to bring up something else is completely irrelevant to that point.

Colin’s quote isn’t “something else” when it says things like “way back before Gw2 shipped”, thus implying the manifesto, and “when it has been repeatedly reinforced since then”, implying all the other times, in regards to Anet having a policy of no grind.

It is a quote that overrides earlier quotes. So it doesn’t matter that SB was brought up. According to Colin, they meant gear grind. They always meant gear grind.

This your opinion and in my opinion it’s a misguided one.

Anet made a statement today about something they meant five years ago. It doesn’t change them explaining what they meant five years ago.

In my mind, and I think in the mind of most reasonable people. if they said something repeatedly, and they did say it repeatedly, five years ago at around the time they produced the manifesto, it’s probably an accurate embellishment of the manifesto.

Five years later, they have to depend on imperfect memories and respond to specific comments that frankly have gotten a life of their own. I don’t really blame Anet for being in damage control mode on this topic.

But what they said back then is very likely what they meant, because they were after all explaining the manifesto at that time.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Evidence?

ColinJohanson.2394:

When our company president said we have an anti-grind philosophy way back before Gw2 shipped, and when it has been repeatedly reinforced since then, our statement is simply: “We don’t think you should need to grind to get the best gear and stats in Guild Wars 2”.

Vayne.8563:

Thanks.

You’re welcome.

It would be lovely if you could actually follow the conversation. I’m referring to what was said at the time by Anet employees at numerous conventions after the manifesto.

Specifically about the line about not having to grind to have fun, a line from the manifesto itself. And in those instances, the Shadow Behemonth WAS used an example. Not a theory. Not a guess. It’s a fact.

The Shadow Behemoth is the type of encounter you might find late in other games, but in Guild Wars 2 they’re giving you those type of experiences right away.

They gave the example of what they meant at that time.

Whether you want to bring up something else is completely irrelevant to that point.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=built+like+a+brick+kittenhouse

SB has nothing whatsoever to do with grind. Try harder, this is too easy.

It’s easy, because you’re not actually looking at the words of the manifesto. It’s a good thing some of us are. What’s said is “in most games there’s this annoying grind to get to the fun stuff”

This was identified as leveling your character in order to get to raids, something else the devs said back then. They said that you go through this whole process to level as fast as you can to get to the good stuff at the end. This is the dev’s explanation from back then, not mine.

They used SB as a direct example of what they meant back then. If you don’t believe me, that’s fine. It’s true. You can argue with reality all you want.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Evidence?

ColinJohanson.2394:

When our company president said we have an anti-grind philosophy way back before Gw2 shipped, and when it has been repeatedly reinforced since then, our statement is simply: “We don’t think you should need to grind to get the best gear and stats in Guild Wars 2”.

Vayne.8563:

Thanks.

You’re welcome.

It would be lovely if you could actually follow the conversation. I’m referring to what was said at the time by Anet employees at numerous conventions after the manifesto.

Specifically about the line about not having to grind to have fun, a line from the manifesto itself. And in those instances, the Shadow Behemonth WAS used an example. Not a theory. Not a guess. It’s a fact.

The Shadow Behemoth is the type of encounter you might find late in other games, but in Guild Wars 2 they’re giving you those type of experiences right away.

They gave the example of what they meant at that time.

Whether you want to bring up something else is completely irrelevant to that point.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

What’s more likely to be accurate, something a dev said about something that was said long ago at the time, or something a dev said about the same thing five years later.

How about you answer me this. There have been a number of times, where, when the manifesto is brought up, you have stated that it’s intent and wording should not be weighed as heavily because it is a document that is 3+ years old.

Well, we have something like that happening yet again. The clarification has been clarified. Colin has stated what was meant by their anti-grind philosophy, all the way back to the manifesto.

Why exactly does the same not apply this time? Why is it suddenly okay to not weigh the newest statement more heavily? Colin has stated, rather definitively, what they meant by anti-grind philosophy.

One wonders why you’re so desperate to hang onto their past statements this time, when you tend to like to argue for ignoring past statements in favor of whatever is most recent.

Cause I gotta say, if it’s suddenly okay to hold them to past comments again? I’d just like to once again throw into the ring the quote about how every player, even casual ones, should have BiS gear by level 80.

Vayne.8563:

While I can’t say what Colin does or doesn’t remember, I can be certain what I definitely remember.

And Colin apparently disagrees with what you remember. So once again, I ask you, who is more accurate?

The ANet dev? Or you?

As far as I know, Colin hasn’t disagreed with my memory of what was said. Evidence? Thanks.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Vayne.8563:

Guess your friend didn’t bother to tell you what the text said when he hit F because you do get a window and it does have text and the text tells you you can’t do it right now.

I wonder why that would have been omitted from your description. Because I’ve been with people who tried to get a skill point and didn’t have to explain anything to them.

I don’t know. I guess he was just confused because he saw me do it but he couldn’t do it despite being the same level as me. That’s what confused both of us.

But it gives him a pop up message every single time he attempts it. Every time. If he was too confused to read you the message, or read the message at all, he might very well be the type of player the NPE was designed for.