Guild Wars 2

I’d probably find it boring after doing everything if I didn’t have a great guild. Playing this game, or any MMO alone is pretty limiting.

People often give each other ideas on what to do that you might not have thought of yourself.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

But those zones are always frozen in time. Take Orr. Even though in theory it’s changed (without giving away too many spoilers) it hasn’t actually changed. It’s locked in time.

Currently it is just “so far” – and as LA and Kessex Hills (as well as some changes to Iron Marches) has shown up that it is not necessarily true. If the Living World will end up being locked behind HoT, it will become true however. That is not a good thing.

Vayne.8563:

But no one should expect free stuff forever.

I don’t. I am definitely planning to buy the expansion. I just don’t want the part i play now to get abandoned. I want the world to truly become bigger, not to just migrate to a different part of it.

Vayne.8563:

Want the story, pay the admission price. It really is that simple.

No, it is not. I will be paying the admission price. But i still don’t want the story to avoid vanilla game regions and consider it an extremely bad limitation for the story itself (and for my enjoyment of the expansion).

So how do you deal with the issues like Orr. People who have yet to experience the game, coming to the game, won’t have that vanilla experience you like so much. The changes to LA have thrown off the personal story. So will changes to Orr. The changes to something like Kessex Hills are okay, but in the end of the day, how much time does anyone spend in Kessex Hills?

I’m not saying Anet should never touch the starting zones, but changing them wholesale over time will affect people new to the game.

And you know, there was very little change to early areas during the life of Guild Wars 1 was well.

The fact is, the only workable solution I can see, short of phasing which comes with a whole host of problems, is to make sure the world is time locked to the time you’re supposed to be going through it.

There are two types of PvP in the game, SPvP and WvW. SPvP you’ll be on an even level with anyone else, but not so in WvW. You’ll have your stats leveled to 80, but you won’t have your traits unlocked in WvW.

If you SPvP you get tomes as a reward which give you full levels.

It’s not that high a level, you play for a couple of hours you’ll see them. And the NPE only needs to be unlocked on one character. The second character you level after will see them from level 2.

GameVeight.2745:

Vayne.8563:

Whether the living world or the personal story is what moved forward, the fact is, it would have ended at 80 and would have been continued in an expansion though arguably, Season 1 of the Living World did far more to change the world than the personal story ever did.

The personal story itself was just instanced content and didn’t change the world at all. So if you want the world refreshed, a continuation of the personal story wasn’t going to do it anyway.

The point of contention here is not that the story will be advanced exclusively through the expansion, rather that the Living World is leaving Vanilla GW2 and will only be available to HoT players. Because the Living Story has supplanted the Personal Story this effectively freezes pre-HoT Tyria in time. That is a problem for the devs as well as the players because it limits the scope of all future stories in the same way that the original Personal Story made it so that Orr could never be truly reclaimed.

Mechanically the Personal Story and the current Living Story are nearly identical now, the only difference being that the Living Story is delivered in chunks. So using the current Living World to deliver the next “Dragon Campaign” is only different than delivering it via Personal Story entries in that it removes all hope of a dynamic Living World from the game.

If the HoTs “Dragon Campaign” were delivered through Personal Story entries as an extension of the original Personal Story and the Living World (no longer following the Mordremoth plot but perhaps focusing on peripheral events) continued to be take place in the Vanilla GW2 map space while being available to both Vanilla GW2 players and HoT players then I don’t think there would be all this fuss, people would keep playing Vanilla GW2 and would probably buy HoT within six months of release anyway.

But those zones are always frozen in time. Take Orr. Even though in theory it’s changed (without giving away too many spoilers) it hasn’t actually changed. It’s locked in time. When you enter that zone, Zhaitan is still alive and we’re still fighting our way in. It can’t change because of the personal story.

Logic has it that if Anet is going to offer expansions those expansions can’t do anything in those zones, because those zones are used by the personal story. You can’t change them.

Even when LA was destroyed by Scarlet, it screwed with the personal story for new people who found themselves in a destroyed Lion’s Arch when it should have been a thriving city.

If people don’t want to buy the expansion, that’s their own lookout. And they get everything they paid for and more, since stuff has been added.

But no one should expect free stuff forever. The vanilla game will continue as Orr has, exactly as it was, with some changes such as the PvP changes (which no one is paying for) or the QOL changes, like the camera changes. Those are all free.

Want the story, pay the admission price. It really is that simple.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Boffo.6092:

Hi,

I’m new to Guild Wars 2. I’m a long time WoW player (although never progressed beyond LFR there). I have the original Guild Wars on Steam, but never did much with it. Basically, I’ve heard good things about GW2, and since with the sale, the game cost as much as 1 month of WoW did, I decided to check it out.

So while I’m downloading literally hundreds of thousands of files, I wanted to ask the community what can I look forward to once I actually get into the game?

Coming from WoW there are a few things you should know.

1. Never use the mystic forge, it’s a trap. Farm gold not materials as some accounts like mine have been hexed since launch. Go and farm events not materials. Gold can buy anything you need on the trading post.

2. Never sell materials. You’ll need them later.

3. You can buy anything in the game with gold so buy low sell high in the trading post and spend your time in level 80 maps doing events and running dungeons.

Anet wants players kept poor so they’ll buy gems and convert to gold so amass a fortune and ruin their plans.

Just a quick comment to clarify. Never use the mystic forge for random gambling. There are plenty of things you need to use the mystic forge for, even if it’s just mystic salvage kits.

I wouldn’t gamble with the mystic forge, but I use it to upgrade mats sometimes.

GameVeight.2745:

Vayne.8563:

The focus of the main narrative is going to be the expansions moving forward.

When I bought the game during Flame and Frost, the Personal Story was the main narrative and the Living World gave the Personal Story a dynamic world to happen in.
I was simply trying to point out that some people are upset because the Living World/Living Story has replaced the Personal Story as the main narrative over the past few years and will therefor be leaving the core of the game to stagnate as it has been indicated that the Living World will only be available to players who have HoT.

Whether the living world or the personal story is what moved forward, the fact is, it would have ended at 80 and would have been continued in an expansion though arguably, Season 1 of the Living World did far more to change the world than the personal story ever did.

The personal story itself was just instanced content and didn’t change the world at all. So if you want the world refreshed, a continuation of the personal story wasn’t going to do it anyway.

Oh yeah that’s another difference from most MMOs you might notice. The community is over all, pretty kitten ed nice.

Why would it be more fitting?

Silmar Alech.4305:

If you speak of a noble, then I’d prefer Faren to accompany us instead of Kasmeer and Majory. Really. He is totally useless, but his comic-like character is believable as the total anti-hero and pretender. K&M are not believable.

If you compare our NPCs with the companions in Lotr, these did know what they were in. They were selfless right from the start. The Bilbo role was chosen for our mentor in the personal story, but this was not a good move either.
K&M as Merry and Pippin – not far fetched, but they’re lacking depth. Merry and Pippin were not acting like silly childs or teens like K&M. But they acted like soldiers: Merry went to battle with Theoden and Eowyn and slew a Nazgul, Pippin went with Gandalf to the battle at the Black Gate, knowing they could not win. How strong they grew you see in the aftermath where they rescue the shire.
And the most important thing: they survived. With wounds. Not simply discarded as dead at some point.

If you compare K&M with them, then it’s time they grew up and get serious.

Merry and Pippin acted like soldiers at the end of book three after a hell of a lot of action. There were a couple of thousand pages where they didn’t act like soldiers.

As for believable, I don’t know. They’re supposed to be some sort of stereotype more or less. In the time we have to learn about them, they are exactly what they are supposed to be.

It’s like Doc Savages aids in Doc Savage (though you may have never read it). They’re not meant to be fully fleshed out main characters.

Hell, Robin in Batman wasn’t exactly a greatly fleshed out character either. They’re side kicks.

And whether they’re believable or not is strictly a matter of opinion. I don’t obviously have any trouble believing them.

Something that’s very much not WoW. lol

I’m not really joking. Forget what you think MMOs are like because it’s not like that, most likely. A couple of things.

There’s no kill stealing here or node stealing. You don’t have to rush to mine a node, it’s your node. If you hit something and someone else hit it too you both get XP and experience.

Everyone can rez everyone else without taking a skill to do it.

There are no dedicated tanks or healers and in fact no skills that target an ally.

When the expansion hits there will be no new tier of gear and no new level cap.

There are no mounts or raids. Transportation is handled by way points.

This game doesn’t have quest hubs or traditional questing at all.

You can enter PvP from a very low level without gearing up at all.

There’s more but you get the idea. lol

GameVeight.2745:

Vayne.8563:

If you want to follow the story, you have to buy the story.

If you paid to see Lord of the Rings part 1, you got to see Lord of the Rings Part 1. When part 2 comes out, you can decide if you wish to continue.

That is fine and as it should be.

The problem stems from the (apparently incorrect) inference of many players that the Personal Story would deliver the main plot of GW2 and the Living World was to keep the world fresh and engaging after you ran out of Personal Story, maybe even provide a little taste of the expansions (see Season 2) while being independent of them.

This conclusion was not totally unwarranted, given the modular nature of GW1. Many players both new and GW1 vets would tend to assume that Anet would follow similar practices with GW2, growing off of the “core” game with expansions while keeping the Living World focused firmly on the part of the game that every player would have/need.

As an example, both the new PvP map and the new WvW map will be available to everyone whether or not they bought the expansion. There will be other changes like that, moving forward, but the focus of the main narrative is going to be the expansions moving forward.

DeViLzzz.3128:

I just bought the game and you are telling me they are destroying the Vanilla GW2 content when the new stuff comes out? No events in the original areas? Some things will be eliminated and nothing will be added or changed? I know I didn’t spend a load of money on this to get it today but I am not happy if this is true.

Let me put it to you this way. Vanilla Guild Wars 2 is 2. 5 years old. Many people have played it since launch without even taking a day off.

So if for your money you can get say even a year out of the game without having to spend a penny, that’s not more than worth it? And when the expansion comes out, if you really like it, you’re not going to consider buying it anyway?

Edit: To be clear all that content that’s there now remains in the game. Nothing is being removed. But moving forward from this point, if you want to follow the story, you have to buy the story.

If you paid to see Lord of the Rings part 1, you got to see Lord of the Rings Part 1. When part 2 comes out, you can decide if you wish to continue.

You can complete dynamic events multiple times. They’re not like hearts. They’re not always there. They spawn spontaneously or at a time when something is triggered near by. Do events whenever you come across them even if you’ve done them already. Events are the best way to level and often incidentally fill in hearts without any extra effort on your part.

After an event is over make sure you hang around because many of them chain into new events.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

I hate to agree with Test, but he has a point.

C’mon Vayne, you know you love me! <3 <3 <3

We don’t see eye to eye on pretty much anything, but yes, I quite like you. Don’t let anyone else know though. It’ll ruin my whole image.

I hate to agree with Test, but he has a point. If you’re not pugging, and playing with a casual guild, you won’t have a problem with any profession, but if you’re trying to randomly pug stuff in PvE, necros got the short end of the stick right now.

Silmar Alech.4305:

Oh my god! Kasmeer was stripped of her rank! I couldn’t care less.

I meant the term “warrior” as a general description of someone who joins the team to take up the fight against the powers that threaten the world. I’m still missing much vocabulary, so I wasn’t able to find a more fitting word. For example, Taimi is no warrior-class either, but she absolutely has a place in the team.

Sure the problem is you expect these people to behave in a way that’s not realistic. A noble who has no real experience adventuring suddenly has adventuring thrust upon her. She’s not Conan. She’s not Rambo. She’s a mesmer who wants to do something to help, but she’s not experienced in any way shape or form.

Your character has been fighting Zhaitan for a long time. The people you’re with…not so much. Expecting them to act like soldiers would be like expecting Bilbo in the Hobbit to act like a soldier. Or Merry and Pippin from Lotro. They’re not soldiers so they didn’t act like soldiers.

Beldin.5498:

Olvendred.3027:

I don’t see what all the fuss is about. They already abandoned the idea of large, short-term changes to an existing area with LS1. The strategy for open-world content in LS2 has been all about adding new things, not making changes to old ones. I think the only changes to existing maps in LS2 have been: a tiny area and a couple of events added to Brisban Wildlands, and 3 or 4 events added to Iron Marches. Everything else has been in Dry Top and Silverwastes.

There are also still some changes in Timberline Falls .. but thats it.

LS1 for me was really “living” world .. LS2 is just another personal story .. it doesn’t
feel at all like a living world but just like some instanced stuff that plays in an
alternate universe.

But hey .. it seems i am very alone here with preferring LS1 over LS2.

You’re not alone. I preferred LS 1 also.

Galphar.3901:

The thing that gets me about not having GvG in GW2 is that after GW introduced arena style PvP many of your AAA MMOs scrambled to add arenas to their games. GvG and HoH were what kept a lot of people playing GW for 5-8 years.

I really wish we knew the stats on this. My own suspicions are that only a relatively small percentage of the playerbase were into Guild vs Guild particularly after Nightfall was released.

I think Anet moved to a PvE focus because that’s where their playerbase was.

I don’t get it. I fought risen in Calendon Forest but in no way did that compare with the risen I fought in the cursed shore.

I fought spiders all across tyria, but none of them prepared me for garguntula.

If every single thing you faced needed to have a different skin, we’d never get an expansion.

First of all, no new dungeons only means something if most of the playerbase logs in to do dungeons. I don’t believe that’s the case and I don’t believe it has ever been the case. SO no new dungeons means nothing in and of itself.

There will be new challenging content, dungeon or no dungeon and just because something isn’t instanced doesn’t mean it would be popular. Take a look at the marionette fight as an example. It was popular, it was challenging, but it wasn’t a dungeon.

Anyway until we here the rest of the info, no one can make a judgement, at least a fair judgement about how good it is or how many people will buy it and play more.

I signed up, but I’m going abroad before the test starts, most likely anyway, so if I do get selected, my time in game would be pretty limited.

vpchelko.4261:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Knowing a dungeon path != knowing the game.

Dungeons is major part of the game knowledge.

What? lol

What we have here is a failure to see the game for what it is. Anet promised a game with a focus on a living breathing world. The only dungeon you ever have to go into is to finish the personal story. A single story mode dungeon path. That’s it. Anet hasn’t had a new dungeon in over a year. Why would anyone think dungeons are a major part of this game.

Do you know what percentage of the population never goes into a dungeon? Have you calculated how many achievement points it’s possible to get without going into dungeons? I have over 23,000 achievement points and though I’ve done every dungeon, I don’t know them well and could care less about them.

It’s okay that you like dungeons. It’s okay that you enjoy them. It’s okay that dungeons mean something to you.

But they are not what this game is centered around, they’re not a “major part of this game” in my opinion and those who think they are have little evidence of it.

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

If all you want is raids and gear grind, yes, you should just quit. That’s because you’ve bought into the rhetoric of an industry that has brainwashed people to make everything about upgrading stats.

This is an experiential game. A lot of stuff to do is in the open world, in jumping puzzles, in minigames.

Stats in PvP have nothing to do with your PvE gear. You’re on an even footing as soon as you start, so you don’t have to gear up for PvP.

But if you must have a game dictate what you should do at 80, you’ve come to the wrong game. Different people have different end game goals, whether it’s achievement point hunting, or collecting skins, or collecting minis, or finishing the story.

If you just want a raid with gear, there are lots of choices out there for you. But if you can overcome that mindset, there’s a lot of choices here for you too.

This is so unbelievably condescending and a perfect example of why I left these forums a year ago.
Its one thing to (still) have GW2 on a pedestal and defend it, make suggestions of things to do or even suggest to go to another game. Its another to imply that simply because a person has different tastes, they have been brainwashed, must overcome their lesser from of thought to embrace GW2 and are pretty well just plain stupid for even thinking of wanting some set end goals. All said in the nicest way possible, of course.

Right games don’t brainwash people. It never happens. People don’t get used to an idea or think that’s the only way things can be. That never happens. WoW didn’t have dozens (hundreds?) of clones that all work pretty much the same way. That didn’t happen.

From the way the OP is phrasing responses in this thread, this game isn’t compatible with what he wants, which means the game may not be for him.

But we’ve seen more than one person, quite a few people, who came to this game and tried it and didn’t like it and then came back and tried it with a different mindset and loved it.

They didn’t like it because they didn’t know what to expect.

Where do you think those expectations came from?

It’s too early to ask this question, because we don’t have all the information.

Look in the old days we might get in an MMO expansion an entire area that can be cleared in 3 weeks to a month. Anet might not be giving as many zones, but that doesn’t mean we’ll be able to clear those areas faster.

Here’s the deal. In order to get to all the parts of the area, you’re going to have to unlock many types of masteries. You’ll need gliding to get to some, mushrooms to get to another. You’ll need lore to access other content.

But you can’t level them all at the same time. You have to pick masteries to focus on and after unlocking them, level them by getting XP.

So it’s conceivable this area might contain less zones but as much content as other games. That it might take as long to clear as any other expansion for any other game.

We just don’t know at this point. We don’t even have all the information.

All any MMO really does is give us a list of stuff to do. If it’s not a raid, it’s a new PvP type or whatever. This gives us new WvW stuff, the new PvP map, and a least some new zones, plus new ways to interact with those zones.

But let’s not forget Guild Halls which need to be built and added to. Let’s not forget masteries of which there are likely going to be many and they can be added. Let’s not forget that there’s better AI with more challenging content.

We don’t know anything about that challenging content yet. It might not be a raid in the traditional sense, but it might be as hard to get through as some raids. We just don’t know.

Because of this, we have no way of knowing if the points in this article are valid or not.

If the game is fun and entertaining and challenging enough, people will enjoy unlocking masteries and playing through content long term and it will be worth it.

If not then it won’t be. But what we know now isn’t enough to even ask the question. And asking the question now isn’t really good journalism.

Silmar Alech.4305:

Marjory and Kasmeer are annoying as hell. I don’t care if they somewhat vanish in the upcoming story – I would welcome it. These two are acting like 2 girls on a party with bad guests, but not as warriors in a world that is threated by elder dragon forces. Their voices are annoying. Their acting is annoying. Their deeds are annoying. They don’t act like reasonable grown up people but like teens in their puberty. Nobody with the slightest instinct of self preservation would take them on a fight that leads to an elder dragon.
It doesn’t fit. If they were in a party with me, I would vote to kick them, because they don’t contribute. They stand aside and are simply annoying. It would be the first kick in my whole GW2 time since release.

They have no depth. They are designed with depth (Belinda, and the history of Kasmeer), but on a green table. It doesn’t grab me, because it feels artificial and not natural.

I don’t like them. And it’s not because they are designed to be disliked like a villain, it’s because their design is annoying. They are misplaced in the story.

Ok, enough rant.

Cause they’re not warriors?

Kasmeer until recently was a noble who got stripped of her rank due to something her father did. She took a job with Margery’s detective agency in Divinity’s Reach.

These aren’t battle-hardened soldiers. They were pulled into events over their head, and they’re feeling their way ever since.

What makes you think they should act like warriors? Hell Marjorie is a member of the priory and many priory NPCs act like scholars rather than warriors.

Devata.6589:

Ashen.2907:

For everything that you do not want in the gemstore someone else wants to exclude something else. If Anet is going to make everyone who wants something out of the gemstore happy they would have to remove everything.

How would YOU personally make up for the loss of revenue if this item was withheld from the gemstore ? Lets say a thousand people would have paid ten dollars each for the set. How would YOU make up the loss of ten thousand dollars ? Not Anet, YOU?

I would have sold an expansion every year and put fun content in it that rewarded these things. People would then hopefully buy the expansions every year because they know there is all this fun content in them. Eventually I might have even earned more by selling the game and expansion on yearly base.

I don’t believe that Anet could make an expansion a year. This isn’t Guild Wars 1. Things aren’t pathed. Dynamic events are not quests.

You realize you need roughly three times as many dynamic events as you do quests to population a zone, right?

SyZ.7920:

I spent 2 hours in the Silverwastes

Pretty fun, I earned 5g, and a ton of crests, and then I just kind of thought ‘ok, now what’ and went back to my 100% completion goal

I don’t have anything to buy with the money, I have literally zero interest in either bow legendary and I didn’t pick this character to use a greatsword

My guild is nice enough, but with no > 5 man content it’s kind of like, why am I in a guild exactly? I can do a dungeon or fractal or content solo or in a pug, so other than having the same people to talk to, I don’t get it

The 100% completion will keep me busy, but other than that I don’t see a reason to log on

It’s kind of an analog really: 1 -> 80 is a single player JRPG or WRPG storyline, and then you beat the game. Now you just have a bunch of side quests and 100% achievements to get for your PSN or XBL score, but there’s really nothing beyond that and there’s no point to any of it because you don’t have anything to do with any gear you get

The big, open world 200 man pug dailies and events I can basically right click and tab out and look at stuff then tab in 3 minutes later and get a chest

There’s no DPS logs, I have no idea how my damage compares to others, and there doesn’t seem to be any reason to try to improve because, again, there’s no end game or goal in sight

The game isn’t compatible with what you want. That’s it. It’s a game for people who play like me, not like you.

I don’t belong to a guild because I need them to do big content (and btw, WvW is big guild content), but because I want people to hang with and play with.

And there are guild missions which your guild probably runs as well, which gives you guild commendations as currency but what you’re looking for a game to make goals for you.

If you can’t make your own goals, this game isn’t going to do it for you. It’s not a connect the dots and make a picture of a cow. And it’s not going to be.

If by some long shot it should become that, the people that are enjoying it now might very well walk away.

So OP what about people who like Marjory and Kasmeer. Why should Anet remove something from the game, just because you don’t like it?

I happen to like at least Marjory, and have ever since that really cool film noir cut scene at the Dead End Pub.

I wouldn’t want to see her gone.

Anything that gives guilds more to do as guilds. Guild Halls and anything else along those lines.

If all you want is raids and gear grind, yes, you should just quit. That’s because you’ve bought into the rhetoric of an industry that has brainwashed people to make everything about upgrading stats.

This is an experiential game. A lot of stuff to do is in the open world, in jumping puzzles, in minigames.

Stats in PvP have nothing to do with your PvE gear. You’re on an even footing as soon as you start, so you don’t have to gear up for PvP.

But if you must have a game dictate what you should do at 80, you’ve come to the wrong game. Different people have different end game goals, whether it’s achievement point hunting, or collecting skins, or collecting minis, or finishing the story.

If you just want a raid with gear, there are lots of choices out there for you. But if you can overcome that mindset, there’s a lot of choices here for you too.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Honestly, I think this is one of those things that actually needs a definitive response from Anet.

If what OP says is true based on that interview its very troubling.

What’s troubling about it?

Andred.1087:

I’ve never had that problem. I don’t think it’s on their end.

It’s definitely on their end, because recently a lot of people have had problems, including a lot of people who never had problems before.

Not all computer problems are going to affect everyone. I mean it could be one specific virus checker that conflicts with it and only people using it are having issues. There’s just no way to know.

Mirta.5029:

Boanoah.6719:

Not quite.

“I did not buy a Ferrari 2.0. I do not get to drive my Ferrari 1.0 any further down the road.”

See how that works? Or better yet:

“I did not buy a new road. I do not get to drive any further on the old roads.”

but you do get to drive on the old roads to your hearts desire (none of the original content is being taken away), you’ll simply won’t be able to drive on the new roads that you haven’t payed for.

An MMO isn’t a car. It’s access to content. You’re paying to enter Tyria. It’s like when Walt Disneyworld opens a new park, you don’t get to pay for one park and get to the new park as well. You are paying for content.

Even in Guild Wars 1 this was true. You pay for the base game and if you want to go into the new areas, you pay to do so.

Think of a game like WoW which charges $15 per month to play and still charges you to get into the newest areas.

No way anyone will know until we try it. If it does solve some of your issues it would be interesting to know that.

The planned length depends on a lot of things including replayability.

I’m guessing that by making it a 24 hour sale Anet made more sales than they would have if they hadn’t.

And it’s coming back anyway, so it’s not like you can’t get it.

vespers.1759:

Vayne.8563:

vespers.1759:

Vayne.8563:

More to the point, what has been up until now is 100% irrelevant.

You’re simply saying it’s been this way so far, so it must always be this way.

I question that logical bias.

Let’s all disregard the things Anet has been doing for the past 2 years because we hope they won’t continue to do them!

K.

I’d rather listen to what they’re saying than ignore what they’re saying. We know for a fact they hired an AI guy during those two years. We know for a fact he’s been working on the AI. We know for a fact that Anet addressed the game developers conference on AI this year. We know for a fact Anet has said they’re working on more challenging content (which they haven’t said before).

We also know that the Silverwastes is harder content than most of the other open world content.

Those are all facts. You want to ignore all those facts to make the assumption the expansion won’t change anything, after they’ve said it’s changing.

Okay, that’s your prerogative. But saying something is the way it is because that’s how it’s been is faulty logic.

By your logic, there will be no new professions in the expansion because we haven’t had a new profession yet.

This will surely be the first time Anet has lied. Of course they’re saying a bunch of great things.. they want to push the expansion. I don’t give a kitten what they say until they prove it with actions and so far they’ve gone back on just about every promise they’ve made so far.

Actions speak louder than words and i’m shocked people like you still eat up everything they say.

I defy you to make a list of every promise they made and then make a list of every promise they went back on.

See Anet literally said thousands of things before release and half a dozen of them have changed. Which is a kitten good track record. That you focus on the few that have changed isn’t anyone’s fault but your own.

And then there are all the things people say are promises that were never promised. I think a good percentage of this forum needs to learn what a promise is, because many a time people are misconstruing intent for promise or something as a promise that Anet said can change.

In fact, Anet said a bunch of things. They said there was no dedicated tank and healer and there is no dedicated tank and healer. They said weapons would have skills on them and weapons do. They said there’d be eight professions and there were.

Anet made so many statements and a handful of things have changed as happens in any big project.

Saying they’ve gone back on just about every promise they made is not only demonstrably untrue but borders on complete dishonesty.

vespers.1759:

Vayne.8563:

More to the point, what has been up until now is 100% irrelevant.

You’re simply saying it’s been this way so far, so it must always be this way.

I question that logical bias.

Let’s all disregard the things Anet has been doing for the past 2 years because we hope they won’t continue to do them!

K.

I’d rather listen to what they’re saying than ignore what they’re saying. We know for a fact they hired an AI guy during those two years. We know for a fact he’s been working on the AI. We know for a fact that Anet addressed the game developers conference on AI this year. We know for a fact Anet has said they’re working on more challenging content (which they haven’t said before).

We also know that the Silverwastes is harder content than most of the other open world content.

Those are all facts. You want to ignore all those facts to make the assumption the expansion won’t change anything, after they’ve said it’s changing.

Okay, that’s your prerogative. But saying something is the way it is because that’s how it’s been is faulty logic.

By your logic, there will be no new professions in the expansion because we haven’t had a new profession yet.

Lifestealer.4910:

This is standard blizzard tactic. Remember diablo 3?.. it was released purposefully broken so they could sell the fix as an the expansions.

Anet doing the same thing with gw2, or something similar actually. Released a finished game, break it midway by completely butchering things like the trait system and then offering the fix in the expansion. Genius

Evidence?

Anet didn’t “release a finished game”, at least not in the sense of having guild halls, which a lot of people wanted, or having more than one format of PvP, which a lot of people wanted.

First person view and FOV changes could have been included in the update, but they’re being included for free before the update, fixing problems that some people had with the game.

I think this is a far cry from what you’re saying.

The wardrobe was added and that fixed some of the existing issues in the game.

vespers.1759:

Vayne.8563:

vespers.1759:

Guess this depends on how much the expansion adds and how much it costs. I get the sense it’ll be a couple new maps and a class and new specializations given that all the content upgrades to date have had very little real content.

I do not consider a new class or a new weapon for each class to be true new content. If this expansion is going to work it needs new maps and new dungeons first and foremost. A LOT of them. otherwise it’s just “here play the same kitten but on a new character!” we’ve all already played the old content on the existing 8 or whatever classes we dont’ care.

Also how much is this expansion going to be? it seems very light on content so far so anything over $30 is way too much imo for what we’ve seen. $20 seems more suited.

This will decide how split the playerbase is. Few people will pay for an expansion that doesn’t provide significant new stuff. I only came back for the expansion when i heard about it and if it ends up being small i’ll leave again.

I completely disagree with this. It seems some people are locked in this old thought process where dungeons are all that’s important in an MMO or we can’t have challenging content without dungeons or that more maps means more stuff to do by default. I don’t think that’s the case.

The mastery system will give people stuff to work towards that can grow with the game. The specialization system will give people new ways to expand their professions moving into the future.

New expansions come out in games all the time and usually they raise a level cap, add tiers of gear and hide the gear in raids. That’s not going to work in this game and those waiting for it may indeed be disappointed.

But what if the game introduces challenging content that’s not dungeons? What if it has as much playability and replayability as an expansion in any other MMO?

what challenging content has there ever been outside of dungeons (and by dungeons i mean fractals)? there’s none. Group events are by design a mindless zergfest and always have been. Anet has shown no inclination to add raids or even group content with a party size larger than 5.

All the mastery system does is give you a new weapon… so you can go ahead and do the same thing you’ve been doing all along but with a couple new skills. That will not provide any lasting reason to stay anymore than collecting cosmetic items will. At the end of the day you get your shiny sword and then… do the old content again with it.

I’m also unsure why you think a raised level cap and new gear “won’t work” when ascended gear is exactly that except extremely poorly executed and awful? it’s a gear treadmill of the worst kind because there’s literally no content that necessiates having it. if they added a gear grind that required the new gear to progress i’d be fine with it. Instead it’s “look guys i grinded 1000 fractals to get my ascended gear so i can do more fractals!” (except that nobody actually gets enough drops to complete a set).

It won’t work because the core constituency of this game doesn’t want it and many will leave. I’d call that not working. There has been more than one thread about raising the level cap.

More to the point, what has been up until now is 100% irrelevant. The issue with challenge isn’t one of dungeons or not dungeons. It’s a lot to do with AI which they’ve done a lot of work on.

People who have played the demo even the early part have said you have to be more on your game and you have to use more skills.

Changes to the way the AI works will affect game difficulty. Adventures are a new type of content that could well be difficult content. They’re changing the game.

All you can say is SO FAR Fractals are the only difficult content (and frankly a lot of people think Liadri was difficult and that was neither an instance nor a dungeon).

You’re simply saying it’s been this way so far, so it must always be this way.

I question that logical bias.

vespers.1759:

Guess this depends on how much the expansion adds and how much it costs. I get the sense it’ll be a couple new maps and a class and new specializations given that all the content upgrades to date have had very little real content.

I do not consider a new class or a new weapon for each class to be true new content. If this expansion is going to work it needs new maps and new dungeons first and foremost. A LOT of them. otherwise it’s just “here play the same kitten but on a new character!” we’ve all already played the old content on the existing 8 or whatever classes we dont’ care.

Also how much is this expansion going to be? it seems very light on content so far so anything over $30 is way too much imo for what we’ve seen. $20 seems more suited.

This will decide how split the playerbase is. Few people will pay for an expansion that doesn’t provide significant new stuff. I only came back for the expansion when i heard about it and if it ends up being small i’ll leave again.

I completely disagree with this. It seems some people are locked in this old thought process where dungeons are all that’s important in an MMO or we can’t have challenging content without dungeons or that more maps means more stuff to do by default. I don’t think that’s the case.

The mastery system will give people stuff to work towards that can grow with the game. The specialization system will give people new ways to expand their professions moving into the future.

New expansions come out in games all the time and usually they raise a level cap, add tiers of gear and hide the gear in raids. That’s not going to work in this game and those waiting for it may indeed be disappointed.

But what if the game introduces challenging content that’s not dungeons? What if it has as much playability and replayability as an expansion in any other MMO?

Your friend is likely wrong, though it may have some elements of truth to it. Anet has said Guild Halls are coming but they absolutely said nothing about any type of guild vs. guild rotations.

That’s wishful thinking on your friend’s part. Anet will be giving more information as they get closer to launch about how guilds will be handled in HoT.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

Fact 3. Many people did abandon the game early because they didn’t.

Proof?

Vayne.8563:

But I know quite a few people who couldn’t get into the game because they didn’t care about builds at all.

Yeah, the “people” you know are not proof. Amazing how you always know people that support your opinion, but in the end it’s just that, your opinion.

People I know are proof. It’s silly you think otherwise.

I know dozens of people, many in my guild right now, who couldn’t get into Guild Wars 1 because of the build situation. But more importantly is this comment from the Guild Wars 1 wiki.

Buildwars (or Build Wars) is a common mocking term, referring to the game (paticularly PvP) being in a state in which the builds are more important than skill or tactics. This state is undesirable to most players as it causes matches to be frustrating, boring and predictable. This happens when powerful skills cannot be countered without building specifically to counter them. The more powerful, hard to counter, skills there are, the higher the degree of Buildwars. When the game is in this state, it can be likened to Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Test.8734:

Soyaman.7096:

I’ve not been following Anets development cycle / announcements so I’m hoping maybe someone could help me shed some light onto the topic below.

The thing is, Guild Wars was not made for GW1 players like you and me. Do you remember when we were playing the original Guild Wars and someone would pop in the forums and say, “I won’t play this game unless we get an increased level cap and more powerful gear”? And most players would reply with, “Then this is not a game for you, but there are many alternatives like what you’re talking about out there”?

Well, GW2 has been made for that kind of person. The one who has not happy with GW1 and wanted something more similar to common MMORPGs (despite how most common MMORPGs have failed). Not for the players who were happy with GW1 and wanted a refinement of that game’s systems.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 1 was called Build Wars for a reason and while many loved that play style, many abandoned the game early because they didn’t.

That is just your opinion, man.

Nope, those are all facts.

Fact 1. People did call Guild Wars Build Wars.
Fact 2. Many did love that play style.
Fact 3. Many people did abandon the game early because they didn’t.

How many? No one knows.

But I know quite a few people who couldn’t get into the game because they didn’t care about builds at all.

It’s highly unlikely that those people are the only people who feel that way.

Edit: From the Guild Wars 1 wiki: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Buildwars

The idea of the books were to fill us in on what happened between Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2. No other books have been announced or AFAIK mentioned.

I can’t believe people are making such a huge deal about not getting an item that’s coming back that has nothing at all to do with game play. Looks like the instant gratification crowd is alive and well.

How can wings make such a difference to gameplay that they’re worth leaving the game over. Anyone who leaves the game over this was leaving anyway.

Actually you will be able to play the new PvP type and you will be able to experience the new maps in WvW. So if you enjoy those gameplay modes, there’ll be new stuff even if you don’t buy the expansion.

Chuo.4238:

Mea.5491:

“As a GW1 player; What I found missing.”

SKILLS.

Seriously. That very thing is what made GW1 so great.

GW2 is to GW1 as ‘The Blues Brothers 2000’ is to ‘The Blues Brothers.’ Sort of related in a flashier, louder, but lazier and shallower way.

That same thing that “made Guild Wars so great” is the very same thing that made Guild Wars so niche.

When you widen your net, you have to make changes. Of course, some people see that as shallow. I see it as smart.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Anyway at least that complaint should vanish when the expansion comes out.

You’re adorably naive sometimes, Vayne

Okay that made me laugh out loud for real.