I double checked. If you go here http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Level_rewards and drop the 41-50 list, you’ll notice that fine salvage kits unlocks at 43. It is not telling me about it. It is allowing me to use.
While anyone is there, please read the unlocking by level. We had that stuff from level 1.
Then its incorrect. I just purchased and used a fine salvage kit with a level 9 character. The highest level that any character on that account has reached is 30. Looks like part of the problem here is that what is stated officially (however official the wiki is) isn’t right.
It’s an absolute fact that fine salvage kits aren’t locked out at any level. I suppose you could even test it on a level 1 character if you have banker golem, but I’ve definitely used it on a character that’s under level 10.
My best friend bought GW2 this weekend. He created his first character and I decided to join his adventure by making a new character as well.
We happily started completing Queensdale until we ran into the first skillpoint in front of the garrison. I communed with the place of power to get my first skillpoint while my friend was just standing there. He was confused and asked me what I just did. I explained to him that he had to stand in the glowing beam of light, press ‘F’ and that would give him a skillpoint for later use. He was just standing there, nothing happened. So I asked him why he wasn’t pressing ‘F’. He said “I am pressing ‘F’ but nothing is happening!”. I got really confused and asked him if he was lagging. He said he wasn’t. He then tried logging out and logging back in. Nothing changed. I told him to send a support ticket to notify Anet of a bug.
It took us literally 20 minutes of fooling around at the skillpoint before I finally found through using Google that the skillpoints are now locked for new players until level 10.
So far this NPE has caused both me and my friend nothing but frustration and it almost made my friend rage-quit on several occasions. But this super confusing moment at the garrison skillpoint was probably the worst NPE moment for both of us.
What the hell Anet?
I don’t get all the hate. It takes like a week to get level 20 and that’s taking your time and being a completionist. A little patience would have served you and your friend well. It is a great game.
A week is too much if you don’t actually enjoy yourself, way too much.
Guess your friend didn’t bother to tell you what the text said when he hit F because you do get a window and it does have text and the text tells you you can’t do it right now.
I wonder why that would have been omitted from your description. Because I’ve been with people who tried to get a skill point and didn’t have to explain anything to them.
Again. Read the manifesto blog and listen to what he says in the video.
So Colin is lying in his quote. Okay.
I’m sure you and Vayne know better than Colin what they meant.
I’m sure Colin didn’t write the manifesto. He performed it. What he said was very likely what someone wrote. It’s clear from the words at least what isn’t being talked about.
More to the point, I’m sure Colin after five years of not thinking about it knows exactly what he meant five years ago. Hell most people don’t know what they meant a year later never mind five.
Imagine that someone asked you what you meant when you said something five years ago. Like you’d even remember. To a fan who listened to the manifesto this was a major thing and it’s ingrained in their psyche. To Colin it was one day out of many days making a game. What makes you think this is something so important to him he even remembers it.
Good to know that you can read Colin’s mind and know exactly what he thinks, what he feels and what he might or might not have forgotten.
Since you can read Colin’s mind you can probably also see the release date of HoT. Can you tell us? Will it be before or after August?
I don’t need to read someone’s mind to know the liklihood of ANYONE remembering exactly what they meant exactly five years later is unlikely. Unless it’s a hot button issue for them, why would they? It’s not normal to remember exactly what you meant five years ago.
All you need is the most basic knowledge of the human brain to understand this. Saying otherwise, shows a lack of understanding of how memory works.
It’s also not normal to forget about core design principles that shape the rest of your game. Stuff like this is not something you easily forget, ESPECIALLY not as a director or a designer.
Not to mention that Colin has come back on the issue and cleared up that the no-grind philosophy was about GEAR grind, not combat grind. Golin is the director of GW2 so when it comes to this his word is God’s and we can assume he knows best what is or isn’t meant with the no-grind philosophy.
So where in the manifesto did you get the idea it spoke about gear. What word in it besides grind lead you to believe that? Just curious.
What in the manifesto did you get the idea that it spoke specifically about combat and about combat only? What word in it besides grind lead you to believe that? Just curious.
And what part of “Word of God” do you not understand? Colin said that the manifesto was about gear grind, so we can all just assume that’s what it is. There is really no point to debating over how to interpret the manifesto, Colin already explained how to interpret the manifesto.
The part of the manifesto that made me think it was about combat were the words “we want to change the way people think about combat.”
What do you think that sentence means and how can you possibly reconcile it to mean that it’s about gear?
Because gear and leveling up is just as much a part of combat as anything else, at least in other MMOs.
I don’t know if you ever played other MMOs but in most of them you have to kill countless of monsters to level-up (grind) and then when you reach max level you have to do the same specific content over and over again to get raid gear (grind) otherwise you won’t be able to do those specific raids.
I have 3 questions for you:
1) What do you think “grind” means and how does it translate to combat according to you?
2) Could it be that the “no-grind philosophy” was meant to be applied to grind in general, which includes grinding for gear?
3) If the answer to question 2 is “yes” then why are we even arguing about this?
Gear grind has nothing to do with actual combat. And again, in the months following the manifesto at that time Anet went into what they meant not once, not twice, but several times. Specifically.
Maybe you weren’t there or maybe you don’t remember. Maybe Colin doesn’t remember what was said at those panels but I do remember.
They gave examples of exactly what they meant. They referred to it directly at that time. What’s more likely to be accurate, something said at the time, or something said five years later?
With no grind, they mean no mandatory grind. There is no gear threadmill.
You don’t have to grind in order to keep up. All the grind in this game is just for cosmetics. Sure there is ascended, but that’s only like 5% better than exotic so you don’t really need it.This post-the second one-was all that was needed to end the thread.
In this game you set your own “grind”. There’s actually zero grind for me, for example, and whenever I take a break, I am never really “behind” anyone, nor do I care if someone has more AP than I do (etc.) I “grinded” (a very tiny bit, actually, compared to other games) for an “useless” but pretty Light of Dwayna for my Guardian because it fit her character concept, but I didn’t need it AT ALL, nor did the stat “benefits” were of any real practical consequence for my purposes.
Unless you start doing fractals, then all of the sudden that grind is no longer optional, since you need at the very least ascended trinkets and then you need to get enough AR infused into them, which is all rather grindy to get.
And don’t say “but you don’t HAVE to do fractals” because that would be a BS argument. No grind means no grind, it shouldn’t mean “no grind in most cases except for some parts of the game”.
Yes, you’re right. Fractals was introduced specifically for people who like that play style. BY DESIGN. So they could play how they want to play. That said…
You can still see EVERY fractal without grinding. Every single one. You can’t do a level 50 fractal but you can do a level 29 fractal and its’ pretty much the same.
Again. Read the manifesto blog and listen to what he says in the video.
So Colin is lying in his quote. Okay.
I’m sure you and Vayne know better than Colin what they meant.
I’m sure Colin didn’t write the manifesto. He performed it. What he said was very likely what someone wrote. It’s clear from the words at least what isn’t being talked about.
More to the point, I’m sure Colin after five years of not thinking about it knows exactly what he meant five years ago. Hell most people don’t know what they meant a year later never mind five.
Imagine that someone asked you what you meant when you said something five years ago. Like you’d even remember. To a fan who listened to the manifesto this was a major thing and it’s ingrained in their psyche. To Colin it was one day out of many days making a game. What makes you think this is something so important to him he even remembers it.
Good to know that you can read Colin’s mind and know exactly what he thinks, what he feels and what he might or might not have forgotten.
Since you can read Colin’s mind you can probably also see the release date of HoT. Can you tell us? Will it be before or after August?
I don’t need to read someone’s mind to know the liklihood of ANYONE remembering exactly what they meant exactly five years later is unlikely. Unless it’s a hot button issue for them, why would they? It’s not normal to remember exactly what you meant five years ago.
All you need is the most basic knowledge of the human brain to understand this. Saying otherwise, shows a lack of understanding of how memory works.
It’s also not normal to forget about core design principles that shape the rest of your game. Stuff like this is not something you easily forget, ESPECIALLY not as a director or a designer.
Not to mention that Colin has come back on the issue and cleared up that the no-grind philosophy was about GEAR grind, not combat grind. Golin is the director of GW2 so when it comes to this his word is God’s and we can assume he knows best what is or isn’t meant with the no-grind philosophy.
So where in the manifesto did you get the idea it spoke about gear. What word in it besides grind lead you to believe that? Just curious.
What in the manifesto did you get the idea that it spoke specifically about combat and about combat only? What word in it besides grind lead you to believe that? Just curious.
And what part of “Word of God” do you not understand? Colin said that the manifesto was about gear grind, so we can all just assume that’s what it is. There is really no point to debating over how to interpret the manifesto, Colin already explained how to interpret the manifesto.
The part of the manifesto that made me think it was about combat were the words “we want to change the way people think about combat.”
What do you think that sentence means and how can you possibly reconcile it to mean that it’s about gear?
Again. Read the manifesto blog and listen to what he says in the video.
So Colin is lying in his quote. Okay.
I’m sure you and Vayne know better than Colin what they meant.
I’m sure Colin didn’t write the manifesto. He performed it. What he said was very likely what someone wrote. It’s clear from the words at least what isn’t being talked about.
More to the point, I’m sure Colin after five years of not thinking about it knows exactly what he meant five years ago. Hell most people don’t know what they meant a year later never mind five.
Imagine that someone asked you what you meant when you said something five years ago. Like you’d even remember. To a fan who listened to the manifesto this was a major thing and it’s ingrained in their psyche. To Colin it was one day out of many days making a game. What makes you think this is something so important to him he even remembers it.
Good to know that you can read Colin’s mind and know exactly what he thinks, what he feels and what he might or might not have forgotten.
Since you can read Colin’s mind you can probably also see the release date of HoT. Can you tell us? Will it be before or after August?
I don’t need to read someone’s mind to know the liklihood of ANYONE remembering exactly what they meant exactly five years later is unlikely. Unless it’s a hot button issue for them, why would they? It’s not normal to remember exactly what you meant five years ago.
All you need is the most basic knowledge of the human brain to understand this. Saying otherwise, shows a lack of understanding of how memory works.
It’s also not normal to forget about core design principles that shape the rest of your game. Stuff like this is not something you easily forget, ESPECIALLY not as a director or a designer.
Not to mention that Colin has come back on the issue and cleared up that the no-grind philosophy was about GEAR grind, not combat grind. Golin is the director of GW2 so when it comes to this his word is God’s and we can assume he knows best what is or isn’t meant with the no-grind philosophy.
So where in the manifesto did you get the idea it spoke about gear. What word in it besides grind lead you to believe that? Just curious.
Hey Colin if you’re around, did you write the Manifesto?
Again. Read the manifesto blog and listen to what he says in the video.
So Colin is lying in his quote. Okay.
I’m sure you and Vayne know better than Colin what they meant.
I’m sure Colin didn’t write the manifesto. He performed it. What he said was very likely what someone wrote. It’s clear from the words at least what isn’t being talked about.
More to the point, I’m sure Colin after five years of not thinking about it knows exactly what he meant five years ago. Hell most people don’t know what they meant a year later never mind five.
Imagine that someone asked you what you meant when you said something five years ago. Like you’d even remember. To a fan who listened to the manifesto this was a major thing and it’s ingrained in their psyche. To Colin it was one day out of many days making a game. What makes you think this is something so important to him he even remembers it.
Good to know that you can read Colin’s mind and know exactly what he thinks, what he feels and what he might or might not have forgotten.
Since you can read Colin’s mind you can probably also see the release date of HoT. Can you tell us? Will it be before or after August?
I don’t need to read someone’s mind to know the liklihood of ANYONE remembering exactly what they meant exactly five years later is unlikely. Unless it’s a hot button issue for them, why would they? It’s not normal to remember exactly what you meant five years ago.
All you need is the most basic knowledge of the human brain to understand this. Saying otherwise, shows a lack of understanding of how memory works.
Again. Read the manifesto blog and listen to what he says in the video.
So Colin is lying in his quote. Okay.
I’m sure you and Vayne know better than Colin what they meant.
I’m sure Colin didn’t write the manifesto. He performed it. What he said was very likely what someone wrote. It’s clear from the words at least what isn’t being talked about.
More to the point, I’m sure Colin after five years of not thinking about it knows exactly what he meant five years ago. Hell most people don’t know what they meant a year later never mind five.
Imagine that someone asked you what you meant when you said something five years ago. Like you’d even remember. To a fan who listened to the manifesto this was a major thing and it’s ingrained in their psyche. To Colin it was one day out of many days making a game. What makes you think this is something so important to him he even remembers it.
Saying there’s a tier above exotics and saying you have to grind for it are completely different things. You don’t know. You’re assuming. You’re using the assumption to malign. It’s obvious to most people what you’re doing.
One could easily counter argument that you’re trying to defend ArenaNet while ignoring the evidence in front of you, and that it’s obvious to most people what you’re doing.
As an example, there is zero assumptions in saying that, by the time of release, ArenaNet knew very well that there was a huge grind in the game in order to get legendaries, at the same time they had at the front of their website the video in which they claimed they don’t want players to grind.
There is no way around it. It’s simply a fact – the Manifesto was something ArenaNet knew wasn’t true at the very same time they were using it as a marketing tool.
- Grind: To us, grind means being required to do the same boring activity over and over again. In particular, the biggest reference we’re talking about here in traditional MMO’s is having to kill the same creatures over and over again to farm for levels or gear. In Gw2, you can gain exp and levels from a massive variety of game play, game modes, and content types. Same goes for the ability to acquire the gear to build up your characters. Similarly, ascended mats can be acquired from a wide variety of content types and game modes to allow you choice and options so you don’t need to grind to complete those goals. Our new mastery system continues to this promise as well, which we’ll go into more detail on soon.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/No-grind-philosophy/page/4#post4733273
So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
That quote that you bolded now becomes the issue of contention. Anet said back in the day, that in most games you have to level up before you get to the good part of doing end game content, ie raids.
They’re saying in Guild Wars 2, if you want to PvP you can do that from very early on without grinding. If you want to level you get XP for virtually everything. You don’t have to grind one instance to level, or grind mobs to level. They’re saying you don’t have to get to end game to have a cool encounter like the Shadow Behemoth (which was a specific example they used at the time).
They’re saying you’re not locked out of content while having to grind. They never said there would be no items that didn’t require grind that were cosmetic.
I’m sorry, kind of double post here.
So now I’m paying attention to the level unlocks on the wiki. I have the urge to delete the game from my computer. No expansion for me like this.
I won’t go into details, but… Fine grade salvage kits only at level 44? Are you people serious? What kind of dumb person allows this? Have you considered not having a bunch of yes-men around you? I recommend pulling a Hemingway. The game is now a long, boring and forceful tutorial up to level 23. I did not pay for this kind of shabby treatment.
You can buy fine grade salvage kits at level 2. The wiki isn’t listing unlocks. It’s listening when you’re told about stuff. That’s all.
In the old system you weren’t told about them at all. But they don’t unlock at that level. They’re not locked at all.
I think people need to stop spreading misinformation.
Most of the things on that list aren’t locked at all.
thats a big problem with the NPE, its messaging is very poor. Its not that people are lying for the sake of lying its that in trying to make thinngs clearer, they made things less clear.
Some things are account unlocks
Some things are charachter unlocks
Some things are just hidden on the map
Some things are told to you in a way that makes people think its unlocksthe system is pretty bad at messaging, and more confusing than not confusing.
I don’t disagree with this.
But it doesn’t change that fact that there were plenty of people confused before it changed.
One of the biggest issues with this game is the lack of consistency. Different things work differently depending on where you are. In some events with a blue border around them you have to cap the area and in some you just have to defend it. Nothing really explains this to you.
I never said the NPE was perfect. It solved some problems while creating other problems. That doesn’t mean that it should be scrapped. It could be adjusted to solve some of the new problems it created, without going back to the old problems.
But the problem with consistency isn’t an NPE problem. It’s a game wide problem from day one.
OP is making a play on the word achievements. Because they’re not achievements.
However they were always called achievements and they were never really achievements and I didn’t see the OP complaining then.
But this forum would have you believe that NO ONE likes the NPE. That thread proves that at least some people do like the NPE. That’s not annecdotal evidence because it’s an opinion not a fact. If someone says they like something they don’t have to prove it. That’s ridiculous.
Yes, like 50 likes vs 240 dislikes. This count isn’t looking good for you.
However, this thread is primarily veterans complaining about the NPE, not new people making their way to the forums to post. While it’s possible that the new players dislike it at the same % as veterans, it’s not possible to use post count of positive/negative on this thread to tell.
I don’t bother arguing with Hand of Kane anymore because he ignores facts, such as the fact that many of those complaints occurred before the NPE had changes made to it and some people made peace with it after that. And he ignores the misinformation or the people who judged it without trying it.
So there’s zero reason to argue with him.
I’ve leveled 5 chars to level 24 on a new account. Truthfully I didn’t see the big issues and the insult to my intelligence so many speak of. It was mildly annoying to not be able to interact with skillpoints and have to backtrack, but that was the first hour of each chars life and maybe 3 skillpoints. /shrug. The main problem I can see is locking new people out of PvP/WvW who want to do that and don’t know about the workaround. Other than that, I really didn’t see all that much different except I got rewarded for leveling. For some reason, getting free stuff failed to annoy me, even on my 5th char to level 24.
It’s not even the first hour of each character’s life, it’s the first hour of your first character’s life, since in the second character, you can get skill points right away.
They didn’t say how long before launch they intended to launch it.
Irrelevant. They already knew it would be a tier above exotics and that it would be something between exotics and legendaries, which imply a degree of grind. And even ignoring ascended, what arguably is the biggest reward in the game – the legendaries themselves – are behind a huge wall of grind. It’s not possible to hear ArenaNet saying “We don’t want players to grind” while they had just created how legendaries are acquired and not know it was a lie.
You could just say you really like ArenaNet and GW2, but there isn’t any way around this. The Manifesto was a lie, from a time in which ArenaNet used marketing to try to catter to the demography opposite to their current target audience. Because if in the beginning they said they didn’t want players to grind, they have been adding more and more content for grinders in the game.
Saying there’s a tier above exotics and saying you have to grind for it are completely different things. You don’t know. You’re assuming. You’re using the assumption to malign. It’s obvious to most people what you’re doing.
As long as you continue to do that, you’re automatically hamstringing any reasonable argument you may now have.
It’s very easy to say I think there’s grind in this game without bringing up a four year old video. You refuse to do that and that actually detracts from your argument rather than strengthens it. And you know you can keep doing it, if you want. I don’t care much if your arguments aren’t as strong as they can be. But at best it’s a distraction from the thread. It’s certainly in no way a fact.
And that’s all I’ll say on the matter, so feel free to have the last word.
But this forum would have you believe that NO ONE likes the NPE. That thread proves that at least some people do like the NPE. That’s not annecdotal evidence because it’s an opinion not a fact. If someone says they like something they don’t have to prove it. That’s ridiculous.
Yes, like 50 likes vs 240 dislikes. This count isn’t looking good for you.
However, this thread is primarily veterans complaining about the NPE, not new people making their way to the forums to post. While it’s possible that the new players dislike it at the same % as veterans, it’s not possible to use post count of positive/negative on this thread to tell.
I don’t bother arguing with Hand of Kane anymore because he ignores facts, such as the fact that many of those complaints occurred before the NPE had changes made to it and some people made peace with it after that. And he ignores the misinformation or the people who judged it without trying it.
So there’s zero reason to argue with him.
Fact. The manifesto came out 2 years before launch.
Fact. The manifesto was used during release as one of ArenaNet’s main marketing tools. If it did not represent ArenaNet’s intent during release, as it didn’t, then it was a lie.
Fact. A manifesto is a statement of intent.
Fact. Saying you intend on doing something while you know what you will actually do is the opposite is a lie.
Fact. There is no evidence when that was said that it wasn’t the intention.
Fact. ArenaNet has stated that they planned to introduce Ascended gear, one of the grindiest things in the game, even before release. With release being the time when they were saying “We don’t want players to grind”.
The Manifesto is a lie. That is the fact.
They didn’t say how long before launch they intended to launch it. And they didn’t say that it was going to be launched with the same exact mechanism that it eventually launched with. You assuming things doesn’t make anything a lie.
Why can’t you simply say I find the game grindy instead of maligning people.
Edit: In fact their EXACT line was “We don’t want people to grind” ,which is quite different than saying people can’t find a way to grind.
They may very well not want people to grind. Do you know better?
Yep.
Which can easily be proved by seeing how not only the game rewards grind, but it also has areas which are basically huge grinds (see the Silverwastes).
The statement “We don’t want people to grind” is factually a lie – if that were true, ArenaNet would not allow people to grind, much less make grind far more rewarding than not grinding.
Grind refers to leveling therefore all these other things such as ascended gear and legendaries are not grindy because you do not need then. It doesn’t matter how many times you say it. It still doesn’t change what grind is.
Sorry buddy, but when ArenaNet is talking about what they claim to be grind in the game they made, it matters far more than what you say. And as mentioned in this topic, your definition of grind is wrong – since it’s divergent from ArenaNet’s own definition.
What matters most is that you’re considering a manifesto a promise, not a statement of intent. No matter what the statement of intent was 2 years before launch, even if it did change, it wouldn’t have been a lie while stated.
You’re so attached to maligning the company that you refuse to acknowledge even the most basic truth.
Fact. The manifesto came out 2 years before launch.
Fact. A manifesto is a statement of intent.
Fact. There is no evidence when that was said that it wasn’t the intention.
Those are the facts.
I’m sorry, kind of double post here.
So now I’m paying attention to the level unlocks on the wiki. I have the urge to delete the game from my computer. No expansion for me like this.
I won’t go into details, but… Fine grade salvage kits only at level 44? Are you people serious? What kind of dumb person allows this? Have you considered not having a bunch of yes-men around you? I recommend pulling a Hemingway. The game is now a long, boring and forceful tutorial up to level 23. I did not pay for this kind of shabby treatment.
You can buy fine grade salvage kits at level 2. The wiki isn’t listing unlocks. It’s listening when you’re told about stuff. That’s all.
In the old system you weren’t told about them at all. But they don’t unlock at that level. They’re not locked at all.
I think people need to stop spreading misinformation.
Most of the things on that list aren’t locked at all.
Well goalie Vayne, ever stop to think why it’s an issue now?
It’s not an issue now, except people continue to not understand something and talk about it as if they do. Simply put, leveling up gives you information you might not have known. Why anyone would assume they’re locked out of it before then is beyond me.
I’m sorry, kind of double post here.
So now I’m paying attention to the level unlocks on the wiki. I have the urge to delete the game from my computer. No expansion for me like this.
I won’t go into details, but… Fine grade salvage kits only at level 44? Are you people serious? What kind of dumb person allows this? Have you considered not having a bunch of yes-men around you? I recommend pulling a Hemingway. The game is now a long, boring and forceful tutorial up to level 23. I did not pay for this kind of shabby treatment.
You can buy fine grade salvage kits at level 2. The wiki isn’t listing unlocks. It’s listening when you’re told about stuff. That’s all.
In the old system you weren’t told about them at all. But they don’t unlock at that level. They’re not locked at all.
I think people need to stop spreading misinformation.
Most of the things on that list aren’t locked at all.
Here’s a post on reddit where someone asked new players how they feel about the leveling experience. Most of the responses are overwhelmingly positive.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2yhpai/new_players_how_is_the_leveling_experience/
It’s interesting to me, Vayne, that you’re perfectly willing to accept anecdotal evidence when it supports your theories.
Well, no I’m not accepting anecdotal evidence at all. The fact is your opinion or anyone’s opinion of the NPE is just that…their opinion. And opinions can’t be wrong.
But this forum would have you believe that NO ONE likes the NPE. That thread proves that at least some people do like the NPE. That’s not annecdotal evidence because it’s an opinion not a fact. If someone says they like something they don’t have to prove it. That’s ridiculous.
So that thread shows that it’s not as cut and dried as some people are trying to make it.
And being that the NPE was created for new players and not for us, I’d say that Anet, though they went overboard, did accomplish at least some of what they wanted to do with it.
Your attempts to discredit me would make more sense if we were talking about a fact.
Welcome to Tyria! I’ve been here since launch and still having fun.
I’ve never seen any comment about not “grinding” for BiS gear.
Incredibly ironic you are saying that in this topic, in which Colin himself says the comment you claim you have never seen.
98% of those complaining about “grind” in GW2 appear to have NEVER played a game that actually REQUIRES grind to progress in the game. THAT type of activity is what the GW2 manifesto is stating will not be present in GW2. It’s quite easy to twist any comment into the perception of a lie if your desire is to make someone out to be a liar.
Yeah, before accusing people, I would suggest reading the topic you are replying to.
Then people need to quit referencing the manifesto when complaining about grind. It’s one thing to complain about grind in general but it’s totally different when you reference the manifesto and how Anet lied to players.
ArenaNet lied to players in the Manifesto.
Since a manifesto is only a statement of intent, and since you can’t prove Anet’s intent (whether they succeeded or not), you’re lying by saying Anet lied.
A manifesto is definitely 100% a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery. The ONLY way you can say Anet lied without lying yourself is to prove that they didn’t intend what they said at the time they said it.
If you can do that, go ahead.
Edit: In fact their EXACT line was “We don’t want people to grind” ,which is quite different than saying people can’t find a way to grind.
They may very well not want people to grind. Do you know better?
I’ve never seen any comment about not “grinding” for BiS gear.
Incredibly ironic you are saying that in this topic, in which Colin himself says the comment you claim you have never seen.
98% of those complaining about “grind” in GW2 appear to have NEVER played a game that actually REQUIRES grind to progress in the game. THAT type of activity is what the GW2 manifesto is stating will not be present in GW2. It’s quite easy to twist any comment into the perception of a lie if your desire is to make someone out to be a liar.
Yeah, before accusing people, I would suggest reading the topic you are replying to.
Then people need to quit referencing the manifesto when complaining about grind. It’s one thing to complain about grind in general but it’s totally different when you reference the manifesto and how Anet lied to players.
ArenaNet lied to players in the Manifesto.
Since a manifesto is only a statement of intent, and since you can’t prove Anet’s intent (whether they succeeded or not), you’re lying by saying Anet lied.
A manifesto is definitely 100% a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery. The ONLY way you can say Anet lied without lying yourself is to prove that they didn’t intend what they said at the time they said it.
If you can do that, go ahead.
Here’s a post on reddit where someone asked new players how they feel about the leveling experience. Most of the responses are overwhelmingly positive.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2yhpai/new_players_how_is_the_leveling_experience/
Not sure why this is a thing considering they announced that the NPE is going to completely change soon from what I’ve read.
I’d suggest sticking around till at least the first patch of the changes to see what’s coming when it comes to traits etc and this is coming from someone who’s extremely critical of the problems this game faces.
You got a quote on that, I haven’t seen this.
The reason for them not doing something about this yet is that they are focused on content that is deemed more important. I would prefer for them to focus on HoT instead of this,
Honestly, as a programmer and software developer myself, I would prefer fixing and improving stuff than delivering more content that can even come broken as well.
These aren’t for the most part far-reaching changes and MOST of them don’t kick in on the second character you level.
Once you level your first character you can get skill points right away, you see vistas right away and yes, you can easily go into PvP right away through the crossed swords.
90% of the affects on your first character.
Forgot second character. Once again, NPE is about FIRST character, period. It’s merely natural that second character wouldn’t be badly affected by this; in fact it never should, not even a bit. The lessening of the issues with a second character doesn’t fix all the issues with the first character, neither make them less worse, don’t use it as argument.
It’s a valid argument. You level a character for the first time once. Two hours or less after you started leveling you barely have to think about it again. I’d call that a valid argument.
And it’s not as inconvenient as most people make out anyway. Leveling has been greatly accelerated for the first part of it, many of the complaints were fixed during the first patch and this group of people for whom this has become a hot button issue are doing just that.
I just read in a thread that more changes are coming with hot anyway. Anyone have a quote on that?
The Silverwastes are one of the best designed areas of the game. There’s stuff there for everyone. If you want to stay there early on and challenge yourself against modrem you can. If you want to hang out for the meta event you can. If you want to run around in a train and farm chests you can. If you want to do an amazing jumping puzzle that spans an entire zone, you can.
There are probably a small percentage of the playerbase that hates the Silverwastes, but it seems to have been a hit with players.
Arrow can be turned off. PvP can still be entered from level 2. After your first character many of the limitations go away.
The problem with posts like this is there’s enough misinformation in it that it gives a false sense of what’s really going on.
Can’t see why anyone wouldn’t get they expansion if they’re playing the game. The masteries alone will probably make it worth it, even if you don’t spend all your time in the jungle.
The problem is people, including the OP, are actually trying to get an overview of what specializations are before Anet did anything but announce them. We’ll get more detail on them when Anet releases the deep dives into specialization.
Until then, even if you understood stuff said correctly, it can always be changed anyway.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/limited-time-offer-save-75-on-guildwars2-through-march8/
Give me a break, 6th through 8th is the promotion!? and its over.. awesome, why is it so hard to run a campaign for a few weeks. Let the word get out (no 48hours is not enough time) and get people to sign up.
It was promotion during a computer show PAX east and it was a promotion for that show. The thing is with the show, so many eyes on you you make up for in quantity so you can sell cheaper.
Show ends, and you’re back to a trickle of sales so you need to make more from each copy sold. This is normal for business.
During the show you have eyes on you of people who never thought about you before. That’s the time for a sale. After the show, not so much.
I want people to Google “SWG NGE”.
Somebody at Sony also thought that was a good idea, and it basically killed the game.
So same thing happened here with the NPE. Somebody thought it was a good idea, and killed the game.
In both cases, the developer behind it, likely didn’t see this outcome beforehand.
Bad analogy is bad. Sony made major changes to a profession making the hard work people had done to get it meaningless. It affected all the Jedis. That was one thing. There were also changes made to combat that persisted throughout the game.
Most NPE changes only affect the early levels and many of those only on the first character.
Misleading comparison is misleading.
Of course it’s misleading to you,,,,, of all people… We can see why you, off all people would say that……
The NPE, didn’t just effect new players. It effected vets that already know how to play the game. But it also made the game horrible for new players as well. They both had the same effect on the game. People left in masses. Leveling became more boring, leading to more zerg trains, since you had less options for playing a character now, especially in WvW.
NPE was here to appear to the East, and even they don’t like the game. It was a total waste of resources. And ruined the company’s image in the eyes of many. Because now we as consumers know, that our voices and opinions aren’t going to be heard at all. There was the massive Trait thread as well, which we had to wait all the way till the expansion reveal in order to get a Developer’s response on acknowledging the flaws in their game design. That’s months of feedback, that went unanswered.
When the next time something bad like this hits the game, will we once again have to wait a year for it to at least be acknowledged by the developers as a mistake?
No one left the NPE in masses. He’s a quote about the Star Wars NGE, so people won’t be misled by this nonsense. It’s from this article.
“http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/26/a-star-wars-galaxies-history-lesson-from-launch-to-the-nge-5/”
“Almost every system in the game – from combat to crafting, all the way through to classes – was fundamentally shaken by this patch. The NGE took what had been a skill-building character advancement system and transformed it into a level-based system with very specific classes. One of these classes was even the Jedi, meaning that players could create force-using characters from the very start. No more holo-grinding.”
Now the trait system, which was NOT part of the NPE and not released with the NPE did affect unlocking traits in the whole game, but combat hasn’t fundamentally changed here. The professions at 80 haven’t fundamentally changed here. The leveling rewards surely don’t kill the game.
No, saying this is like the Star Wars NPE is completely 100% disingenuous. These aren’t for the most part far-reaching changes and MOST of them don’t kick in on the second character you level.
Once you level your first character you can get skill points right away, you see vistas right away and yes, you can easily go into PvP right away through the crossed swords.
90% of the affects on your first character.
I can’t help it if many people lump the trait changes into the NPE and the trait changes are going away anyway.
And yes, lots and lots of people left Star Wars Galaxies over the NGE and everyone knew it. I’ve been playing this game since the feature patch and I don’t believe there was a significant drop in population.
There was a single casualty from my guild who came back when Anet made those first round of changes. I’m sure that there are people who left, but there was no mad race away from this game.
In my mind the trait system is far worse than NPE which large does affect only lower levels and largely goes away after you level one character through it.
That was NEVER true of the NGE.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
For those who say Anet is insulting their intelligence, I find that pretty interesting.
If you understand and you had no problem then it’s not YOUR intelligence that’s being insulted. Maybe people need to stop being so self-centered and realize not everyone is as intelligent as they are and some people DO need more help and more time to get used to things.
If someone simplified something that made it less convenient for me, but helped other people, I wouldn’t say MY intelligence was being insulted.
Maybe it’s just a security thing, but unless you have good reason to believe these changes were directed at you specifically, why be insulted. It’s at the very least thin-skinned.
I want people to Google “SWG NGE”.
Somebody at Sony also thought that was a good idea, and it basically killed the game.
So same thing happened here with the NPE. Somebody thought it was a good idea, and killed the game.
In both cases, the developer behind it, likely didn’t see this outcome beforehand.
Considering how many friends / guildies left the game, I think GW2 would be in the same state if not for the announcement of HoT.
More to the point, the real problem Anet was trying to fix with this is how many people left the game without getting to level 10 or 20 in the old system. If they improved that number, the other problems aren’t as big, because they solved the problem they were trying to solve.
I’ll never stop wondering just WHO is their source. How many people? What was their reasoning? How did Anet test theor opinion? Why isn’t this public. Why GW2 players and vets on here and reddit never saw any trace of an opinion poll etc?
I never saw any kind of poll on my experience in GW2, nor have I hear of such a thing.
Who left the game due to old system being confusing? Some bacteria-grade organism judging by how utterly brainless and dull the new NPE is.
It’s not public because it’s none of our business but the info itself came straight from Colin during early complaints. He talked about the uptake of the game from low levels before the NPE being “absolutely not good enough enough.”
I’m pretty sure it came from the number of people during their free trial weekends that played till level 10 or 20 and just walked away.
Anet’s source is their data. It’s gotta be better than my sources.
I want people to Google “SWG NGE”.
Somebody at Sony also thought that was a good idea, and it basically killed the game.
So same thing happened here with the NPE. Somebody thought it was a good idea, and killed the game.
In both cases, the developer behind it, likely didn’t see this outcome beforehand.
Bad analogy is bad. Sony made major changes to a profession making the hard work people had done to get it meaningless. It affected all the Jedis. That was one thing. There were also changes made to combat that persisted throughout the game.
Most NPE changes only affect the early levels and many of those only on the first character.
Misleading comparison is misleading.
The funny this is that at release we didn’t have those problems. These were introduced starting in last April with the Traits changes and then last September with the NPE.
But we had other problems.
Some of which were fixed to this day, some of which weren’t. Still doesn’t change the fact that the traits overhaul and leveling NPE created a whole other load of problems.
I agree some problems were created, but I think many people are ignoring the fact that some problems were solved too.
Well, from something that is supposed to be an “improvement” update, you’d expect things to be fixed. You do not expect more problems.
And with a lit of problems looming over the game, I don’t see why one would decide to “fix” something that isn’t brokenonly to make it more akin to the grindy China client.
This is categorically untrue. Every solution breeds new problems. It’s normal in programming. The account wallet was absolutely one of the best updates Anet ever did, but some people ended up with problems because of it. It’s not a problem with a capital P but a problem nonetheless.
People wanted to keep money separate on different characters, because they were different people. Some people hated that they couldn’t keep money in their bank anymore, because they had no discipline. We saw both complaints…but those problems were superceded by the problems the wallet fixed. Saying something new should fix all problems is just not true.
More to the point, the real problem Anet was trying to fix with this is how many people left the game without getting to level 10 or 20 in the old system. If they improved that number, the other problems aren’t as big, because they solved the problem they were trying to solve.
Whether HoT ends with Mordy’s defeat or not, I think it makes sense to keep future LS episodes out of vanilla GW2, for the reasons already mentioned.
Some people see the Personal Story as separate from the Living World content, when in reality both storylines go hand in hand. The LW story continued on from the end of the PS, but because people could play them in any order, it often confused people as to what was happening when. But the fact is, the LW and PS is an ongoing story, with both being linked to each other, so LS episodes must be careful not to break the PS moving forward, like it has in the past. And the easiest way to ensure that is to lock it to the expansion.
People are worried that vanilla will become deserted and empty, but I do not think this will be the case. For one thing, many will want to level a revenant naturally, so many vanilla zones will remain populated. Then add to that the dailies, encouraging groups to populate various zones, and I think you will find vanilla GW2 will remain fairly active. Sure, it might not be as active as day one HoT zones, but that will die down after a while, and players will start to find their favourite areas again.
There is still plenty of things to do in vanilla, and I am confident that we will continue to get additional content added, that is not linked to HoT. For example, they said that new mini games will be added, and for all we know these may not all be locked to HoT. If they add the archery range to Divinity’s Reach, I cannot see this being locked to expansion owners only.
Vanilla GW2 will continue to remain entertaining and full of content, and I expect we will occasionally get new content added along side expansion only content. Consider the new defiance for example, this change could very well mean major changes to the way many existing vanilla champs work around the world. If future mechanic changes come to future expansions, these could have major impacts on vanilla content.
The sky is not falling. Vanilla is not coming to an end. And the devs are not leaving it behind. They are focused on HoT for now, so everything they say will be geared for that. We simply don’t know what the future holds, or whether Anet’s ideas will change. They always try to innovate and make the game fun. If that means revitalizing old zones and adding new core content, then that is what they will do. Nothing is ever set firmly in stone with Anet, as they are always trying new ideas and concepts, and that is one of the greatest things about them.
We really have nothing to worry about.
Edit:
…snip…
I totally agree. Size is not only measured by space. I am extremely happy that Anet has seen the light and focused its attention on quantity of content over quantity of landmass. Having a large beautiful zone is great, but if there is not much to do it will only appeal to players who enjoy sight seeing. For the vast majority of players, content/activities is what keeps them playing, and this is now Anet’s focus.
actually, a lot of what you said here, is good in theory, but going according to what they said, they arent really planning on changing things in the pact tyria. One can hope thats not really what he meant, but going by what he said, expect old areas to stay the same.
I dont realy think it will be good if the game stays mostly the same, thats why people want expansions. They want a meaty chunk of content, that builds on the old, but takes them to new things.
Yes people need quality, but they also need quantity
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/3/25/1269531706887/Nouvelle-cuisine-mash-002.jpg
that may taste awesome, but most people are going to want more food.
I don’t know. Let’s talk about Kessex Hills. This area changed drastically after the Nightmare Tower episode of the Living World.
I’ve done it many times before and many times after. Is it really any different? Visually it is, but there’s nothing there after that makes it a go to zone for me. None of the changes really impact play in that area.
Okay so Fort Salma was destroyed and they moved the Vista. It changes nothing, even though it’s changed. There’s a saying…a difference that makes no differences is no difference.
There’s a whole lot less value in redefining the old world than there is in adding to the new world. I’m pretty much done with Kessex Hills.
The funny this is that at release we didn’t have those problems. These were introduced starting in last April with the Traits changes and then last September with the NPE.
But we had other problems.
Some of which were fixed to this day, some of which weren’t. Still doesn’t change the fact that the traits overhaul and leveling NPE created a whole other load of problems.
I agree some problems were created, but I think many people are ignoring the fact that some problems were solved too.
The funny this is that at release we didn’t have those problems. These were introduced starting in last April with the Traits changes and then last September with the NPE.
But we had other problems.
Nothing major until November 15, 2012, when ascended gear was introduced. It’s been downhill ever since. /e opinion
I’d say culling in WvW was major. You might disagree. I’d say that not being able to craft from your bank was pretty major or at least a major pain in the kitten. Not being able to preview items on the auction house. Pretty major if you ask me.
More to the point, the NPE fixed things which used to be problems and yes, created other problems. The reason I say it used to be problems is because people did come to the forums and ask certain questions repeatedly. Many thought they were doing something wrong, because they were underleveled for the next story quest, and didn’t know that you weren’t supposed to run them in a row.
There are always going to be problems. Always.
The funny this is that at release we didn’t have those problems. These were introduced starting in last April with the Traits changes and then last September with the NPE.
But we had other problems.
Stupid forum bugs. lol
This is actually a pretty big issue, the actual point of the thread isnt what you think it would be, but its a big thing.
Its something that has always been a problem in GW2, but now its something they are sort of going to have to commit to.
How are they going to keep people in these old zones, but at the same time freeze them in place?
How can they expand the world, if they want to keep it tight and small?I think the best overall strategy is to have the base GW2 not as pact tyria, but as the everchanging tyria, and make the expansions the part that is more locked into certain times/stories
its a bit of a sticky wicket no matter how you slice it though
They’ll do it the same way they do it now. They’ll haves mats in those zones you can’t get in higher zones. They’ll have dailies in those zones. They’ll have quests that send you to those zones. They’ve done it all along.
Remember when we made Mawdrey and you had to do events in Caledon Forest? Who doesn’t need softwood (I know I do).
Just softwood and Iron keep people in 15-25 zones.
Actually Anet has already done a decent job of keeping those zones pretty busy and they don’t have to keep them usually busy because of the megaserver.
They said all along, they didn’t want to add new zones until the megaserver was finished. Now you know why.
yeah but your just talking about putting rewards in various places, not an actual change in the area.
i dont care how many rewards they put in old zone X, its not gonna make old zone X that entertaining, or the overall world of GW2.As far as megaserver, Colin is still saying he doesnt really want to expand the world much. Which i was surprised to hear, because i thought that was one of the + points of megaserver.
You’re moving the goal posts. You said that there wouldn’t be people in the other zones. I pointed out that older zones were abandoned until Anet made changes to the game to get people there.
Half the business of an MMO is traffic control. Getting people to where stuff happens. No one wants to see no one when playing an MMO.
But changing the world, that’s not really on the table, at least not in any major way. It goes back to what I said about Orr, you can’t heal Orr, because it would literally ruin the game for any new player. These zones are locked in time. They are going to be locked in time.
It doesn’t mean they’ll be dead, or no one will be there, or people can’t have fun in them.
My point isnt really about people in old zones, its about content in old zones. Or more accurately, wanting to keep people interested in the overall world.
I am fine with them not changing anything, but then i would think they need to make expansions bigger. Or they can have small expansions, and try to constantly keep the overall world fresh and exciting.
But it seems hard to keep the world fresh and exciting, by only adding small areas, and keeping everything the same.
People keep using the word small for this expansion when in fact we don’t know how big or small the expansion is.
In the old framework, big meant zones and maybe raids. That’s all it meant. It also meant a level cap increase and gear grind. That’s how MMOs have functioned.
Now, Anet is doing something very different. Small to me has almost nothing to do with the land mass and almost everything to do with the amount of content. Dry Top is a smaller zone than a lot of other zones, but it’s packed with content. I’ve spent far more time in Dry Top than I ever did in Gendarran Fields.
The same is true with the Silverwastes.
If Anet delivers on making challenging, engaging content that keeps people playing, that’s a big expansion.
Take the WoW expansion which has lots of zones. Do you notice how many people we’re getting from WOW now because they’re bored.
If the expansion lasts a couple of months it’s on par with the expansion of most other MMOs. That’s the best way to judge it in my opinion.
This is actually a pretty big issue, the actual point of the thread isnt what you think it would be, but its a big thing.
Its something that has always been a problem in GW2, but now its something they are sort of going to have to commit to.
How are they going to keep people in these old zones, but at the same time freeze them in place?
How can they expand the world, if they want to keep it tight and small?I think the best overall strategy is to have the base GW2 not as pact tyria, but as the everchanging tyria, and make the expansions the part that is more locked into certain times/stories
its a bit of a sticky wicket no matter how you slice it though
They’ll do it the same way they do it now. They’ll haves mats in those zones you can’t get in higher zones. They’ll have dailies in those zones. They’ll have quests that send you to those zones. They’ve done it all along.
Remember when we made Mawdrey and you had to do events in Caledon Forest? Who doesn’t need softwood (I know I do).
Just softwood and Iron keep people in 15-25 zones.
Actually Anet has already done a decent job of keeping those zones pretty busy and they don’t have to keep them usually busy because of the megaserver.
They said all along, they didn’t want to add new zones until the megaserver was finished. Now you know why.
yeah but your just talking about putting rewards in various places, not an actual change in the area.
i dont care how many rewards they put in old zone X, its not gonna make old zone X that entertaining, or the overall world of GW2.As far as megaserver, Colin is still saying he doesnt really want to expand the world much. Which i was surprised to hear, because i thought that was one of the + points of megaserver.
You’re moving the goal posts. You said that there wouldn’t be people in the other zones. I pointed out that older zones were abandoned until Anet made changes to the game to get people there.
Half the business of an MMO is traffic control. Getting people to where stuff happens. No one wants to see no one when playing an MMO.
But changing the world, that’s not really on the table, at least not in any major way. It goes back to what I said about Orr, you can’t heal Orr, because it would literally ruin the game for any new player. These zones are locked in time. They are going to be locked in time.
It doesn’t mean they’ll be dead, or no one will be there, or people can’t have fun in them.
This is actually a pretty big issue, the actual point of the thread isnt what you think it would be, but its a big thing.
Its something that has always been a problem in GW2, but now its something they are sort of going to have to commit to.
How are they going to keep people in these old zones, but at the same time freeze them in place?
How can they expand the world, if they want to keep it tight and small?I think the best overall strategy is to have the base GW2 not as pact tyria, but as the everchanging tyria, and make the expansions the part that is more locked into certain times/stories
its a bit of a sticky wicket no matter how you slice it though
They’ll do it the same way they do it now. They’ll haves mats in those zones you can’t get in higher zones. They’ll have dailies in those zones. They’ll have quests that send you to those zones. They’ve done it all along.
Remember when we made Mawdrey and you had to do events in Caledon Forest? Who doesn’t need softwood (I know I do).
Just softwood and Iron keep people in 15-25 zones.
Actually Anet has already done a decent job of keeping those zones pretty busy and they don’t have to keep them usually busy because of the megaserver.
They said all along, they didn’t want to add new zones until the megaserver was finished. Now you know why.
This is normal. Look at WoW, the new levels and maps are only available if u buy the expansion.
And wow charges a subscription on top of that and has a cash shop.
But that’s what’s going to happen. If so much has changed that it’ll turn you into a newbie, what makes you think someone can tell you in something the length of a forum post everything you need to know?
There’s so much that’s changed, some of it major, some of it minor but could affect you, that it’s hard to even imagine where to begin.
For example, the modrem, new enemies in the new zone, are harder than almost anything in the open world prior to that. Each of the creatures have different machanics. Wolves do huge damage when flanking you, some of them place targets on you for bees to chase you around, some of them have crazy knockdowns, the husks can only be efficiently hurt by condition damage…but there’s tons of stuff like this.
If you take a break from a game, you have to put in the time to relearn it. No matter how many people answer this thread.
It’s like Doc Savages aids in Doc Savage (though you may have never read it). They’re not meant to be fully fleshed out main characters.
Your age is showing, Vayne. I think I only know of those books because they were packed away in the attic and I had to go through it once to prepare for moving.
Hell, Robin in Batman wasn’t exactly a greatly fleshed out character either. They’re side kicks.
Bad choice of example. Robin is a legacy character who has several different identities, and each person who had the name is/was different. Especially D. Grayson (it will censor the first name) . . . he had an arc, and development. J. Todd did as well. A little less certain about T. Drake.
Even Jimmy Olsen got to be fleshed out eventually, rather than just some semi-sidekick.
. . . no, you’re probably thinking more of Sheldon Cooper.
Eventually is the key word here. And you know, there are new Doc Savage books out. Just saying. (They’re quite awful though lol).
MMOs don’t typically set standards for amazing gameplay, or heart rending storyline.
And will continue to be so for as long as people settle for less.
Ah we meet again. I’m not sure this applies.
It’s like going into McDonalds and expecting a steak house. They’re different markets.
MMOs are designed for people who want to play for hundreds if not thousands of hours. No company can keep up with that kind of pace, no matter how good they are. They have to at some point have something repetitive.
MMOs are much more complex than most games. They have more problems to solve. They’re probably at least as competitive as anything else.
The reason all the games are like this is because it’s easy to SAY that games can be higher quality but it’s not easier to make a higher quality game.
We were told fairly early on that there would be grind for cosmetics. Was that ever in doubt ?
I did never hear that claim tbh. A B2P game that was introduced with buzz statements like no grind and only about fun, for casuals that is based around cosmetics. There I do not expect cosmetics to be a boring grind but being built in as rewards for interesting content, being built in the core system of the game. (They did an attempt to have that with legendaries and with the scavenger hunt for the precursor in HoT that might have been oke)
I then expect many fun crafts like musician, toy-maker, inventor, mini tamer and so on. I expect the game to reward that sort of cosmetics for that sort of fun content as this would make all those buzz statements true. But then again, maybe that was a false interpretation from my end. On the other hand, having cosmetics behind a boring grind, while other mmo’s not build around cosmetics have them available in a more interesting way, is not very positive for a game that claims all these things and is built around cosmetics.
If it comes to this cosmetics part GW2 should have completely been my game but on that part it completely failed to deliver and other games are doing a much better job. Guild stuff and WvW is what is still interesting for me in GW2 (And JP’s) and keeps me playing. For HoT I am really interested in the WvW changes and Guild-halls but it would be nice if the cosmetics hunts vs the current grind would also be improved.
Also in many other mmo’s that is a big part of the end-game and if you launch a game that is built around cosmetics you will attract people who like that stuff. But then you scare them away again by having that a grind. Anet might want to try an hold these people when they come back to have a look at HoT.
I heard the claim. Anet always talked about not grinding for BIS gear (which obviously is no longer true), but they did say there would be things to grind for. Having come from Guild Wars 1, I knew what those things would be.
If you’re not grinding for stats, the thing that’s left to grind for is cosmetics.