Guild Wars 2

Lifestealer.4910:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Varrg.2704:

….atleast find a better game.

I don’t think you’ll find a much better game than this.

There are actually heaps of games better than this. The only reason this game is popular is because its so easy to succeed in, pretty much everyone is a winner.

Totally your opinion. I don’t think there are heaps better MMOs than this one, for sure. And every MMO that everyone said was going to kill this game that came out has struggled. Every single one.

So I’m not sure where all those better games are. And it’s entirely possible you might fight those games better than this one, but some of us don’t. It’s not like I can’t go raid in other games. I just find raiding annoying and a colossal waste of energy.

@Devata,

I haven’t come to the same conclusions you have. I think WoW depends more heavily on the cash shop than you think (plenty if their really cool mounts are only available in the cash shop) and I don’t think that this game has the issues you think.

That is to say I agree that the game is funded by the cash shop, but I don’t see the problems you do. I think your dislike of it magnifies a lot of the issues with it. I’ve almost never had a problem with the cash shop in this game.

Of course, I’ve played Turbine games and Perfect World before this, and that might be way.

Compared to most MMOs with a cash shop that have no subscription, this game still feels like a breath of fresh air.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

If people feel the ranger is bad enough to quit over, that is indeed their opinion. And they expressed it. I expressed a contrary opinion. Other people share my opinion. I don’t know why you have a problem with this. I didn’t say this person doesn’t have a right to his opinion, but I do believe he’s overstating his case.

Considering how many 80th level rangers I see running around, I’d have to say I’m not alone.

This is a much more balanced way of bringing your opinion. Would’ve been great if that was actually the topic here.

You do realise you were reacting to a single comment made by someone who isn’t the OP?

Sorry but your post is off topic. If this is an issue for you, why do you keep responding to me about an off topic post? Does that really make sense to you.

On topic: As far the end game game goes. it is weak for people who want challenging content. That has always been the case. Hopefully the expansion will fill that gap.

Mirta.5029:

Vayne.8563:

I entered SPvP at level 2. I didn’t try WvW on my low level character. The different is SPvP starts you off with all your basic traits unlocked, WvW doesn’t, so I didn’t try it.

yeah, that’s the point. The portal to Spvp simply didn’t take him >_>

So why would it take me on a new account, brand new first character, and not him? It doesn’t make sense. And I’m not the only one in this thread who’s said they did it.

Mirta.5029:

Vayne.8563:

Waypoints and hearts are certainly enough to level you up. At lower levels each heart ends up giving you almost half a level and if you get events mixed in there it’s much faster. Ignoring events, which spawn pretty frequently in starting areas is wrong, since that’s probably the fastest way to level.

Anyone who has a friend that plays can be directed to go into the starter city, walk through an asuran gate and enter PvP through the gate in Lion’s Arch. So a 2nd level character can PvP. You don’t have to baby sit them or level them, you just have to tell them how to walk into the city and get through a gate.

Presumably your friends are worth those five minutes.

you talking Spvp or WvW? Because Spvp literally tells you “you’re too low level to enter”.

And no, doing all the hearts, even higher level ones you will be stuck at least 2 levels bellow by mid zone. It’s normal to under level a zone with even doing EVERYTHING (and that’s what I experienced my first time around, doing 100% zone completion will still leaves you 2-3 levels bellow the next zone). The really bad things happen when you finish your starting zone and try to tackle the next map. You’re literally underleveled for the next quest after each quest. So you either do two starting zones or your grind events. It’s not as bad if you can do vistas and poi’s though, but you need an old account to show you where they are.

I entered SPvP at level 2. I didn’t try WvW on my low level character. The different is SPvP starts you off with all your basic traits unlocked, WvW doesn’t, so I didn’t try it.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

There are bugs in every game. If the bug is minor it’s minor. I play a ranger just fine. I don’t have to “deal with it” even if someone else said so. Since I know a whole lot of people who enjoy their rangers and don’t think they’re bugged, or unplayable, I guess that would remain a matter of opinion. I have no trouble playing my ranger. I don’t have to deal with it. That’s your assumption.

You call it minor, doesn’t mean it is minor to everybody. You are not the template for mankind as you know, so this is a matter of opinion.

You play a ranger just fine. Again, that’s your opinion, doesn’t mean it’s working fine for everyone.

Just because you don’t have to deal with it, doesn’t mean others don’t feel that way. You are not more right than others or do you claim some sort of divinity here?

When you say you know “a whole lot of people” that’s a very subjective and misleading term. Someone in a village might think 1000 people is alot and someone living in LA might find 10 million people a lot. Give us a number or an estimate. I am pretty sure it might lack the volumes of representing the player base. So again this is personal opinion and experience, not an actual majority or even a big chunk of the player base.

bugged, or unplayable. This is a false comparison. Bugged is not equal to unplayable. Some bugs may literally make a class unplayable but most bugs are not of that category. So please don’t make it sound like these are the same.

And your final assumption is that I said it was saying you were having trouble with it. I didn’t assume you did or do. I simply was indicating that there are people who acknowledge the bug and deal with it. Not that this was your experience.

Of course you do have a tendency to talk as if you have some authority or represent a lot of people and this is why I wanted to show you that not everybody, even the people who do play rangers, consider everything to be just fine.

If people feel the ranger is bad enough to quit over, that is indeed their opinion. And they expressed it. I expressed a contrary opinion. Other people share my opinion. I don’t know why you have a problem with this. I didn’t say this person doesn’t have a right to his opinion, but I do believe he’s overstating his case.

Considering how many 80th level rangers I see running around, I’d have to say I’m not alone.

Mirta.5029:

Vayne.8563:

A new player wants to SPvP before they learn how to play the game? I’m not even sure why that’s an issue. You will be able to interact with vistas, you just won’t see them on the map…the first time you go through. On your second character you will see them. Same with skill points.

So for the first two to three hours someone plays this game the first time they learn the world. I’m not even sure why you think there’s a downside to that.

now imagine that all you want to do is PvP, I had to grind my friend’s accounts for hours so that they could join us. Now remember new players are not kittened. You take them to Spvp, you tell them where to make a build and where to pick out their gear and then take them to the training dummies. Then you join them into your party and you all have a lot of fun. Half an hour later you get them screaming “I get everything now!” because really with all skills and traits unlocked it’s the easiest way to learn classes. We also took old accounts that were barely played to Spvp on level 2s. And it was just fine. Remember it’s a human being playing the game, not a 3 year old child.

You won’t see anything besides waypoints and hearts. Which is not enough to level you up. Meaning that you’re either babysitting new people showing them invisible vistas and points of interest or the new player is locked to grinding events for hours to be able to do the next heart.

Activities, waldrobe, dyes, are all a big part of cosmetic casual play. Yet all of it is locked till you’re over level 20 and then over level 40. Now why can’t low levels join in on activities? It’s something fun to do.

Fractals are locked till level 79. Which would make sense except level 20s can clear them. Once again new players are locked into one way and one way only to level up, while us veterans really did have the freedom to play however the hell we want.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Actually, a new account can do Vistas (and see them when close) right away, enter the PvP Lobby at any time (portals in LA), and many other things (WvW) that are ‘hidden’, if they feel the desire to do so, and ask or research the method (map chat/forum/Wiki).

Though, it is true that if they are unaware of these features, they will not ask or research them…of course, they would not be seeking them out, either (since they are unaware they are there). Lol.

not exactly true as it literally blocked my friend off by telling me “you are too low level to enter this”. You can’t even drag them to physical locations of things.

I have a new account and at level 2 I walked through the gate into Lion’s Arch and then walked into PvP. No idea why you think it can’t be done.

Mirta.5029:

Vayne.8563:

A new player wants to SPvP before they learn how to play the game? I’m not even sure why that’s an issue. You will be able to interact with vistas, you just won’t see them on the map…the first time you go through. On your second character you will see them. Same with skill points.

So for the first two to three hours someone plays this game the first time they learn the world. I’m not even sure why you think there’s a downside to that.

now imagine that all you want to do is PvP, I had to grind my friend’s accounts for hours so that they could join us. Now remember new players are not kittened. You take them to Spvp, you tell them where to make a build and where to pick out their gear and then take them to the training dummies. Then you join them into your party and you all have a lot of fun. Half an hour later you get them screaming “I get everything now!” because really with all skills and traits unlocked it’s the easiest way to learn classes. We also took old accounts that were barely played to Spvp on level 2s. And it was just fine. Remember it’s a human being playing the game, not a 3 year old child.

You won’t see anything besides waypoints and hearts. Which is not enough to level you up. Meaning that you’re either babysitting new people showing them invisible vistas and points of interest or the new player is locked to grinding events for hours to be able to do the next heart.

Activities, waldrobe, dyes, are all a big part of cosmetic casual play. Yet all of it is locked till you’re over level 20 and then over level 40. Now why can’t low levels join in on activities? It’s something fun to do.

Fractals are locked till level 79. Which would make sense except level 20s can clear them. Once again new players are locked into one way and one way only to level up, while us veterans really did have the freedom to play however the hell we want.

Waypoints and hearts are certainly enough to level you up. At lower levels each heart ends up giving you almost half a level and if you get events mixed in there it’s much faster. Ignoring events, which spawn pretty frequently in starting areas is wrong, since that’s probably the fastest way to level.

Anyone who has a friend that plays can be directed to go into the starter city, walk through an asuran gate and enter PvP through the gate in Lion’s Arch. So a 2nd level character can PvP. You don’t have to baby sit them or level them, you just have to tell them how to walk into the city and get through a gate.

Presumably your friends are worth those five minutes.

Astral Projections.7320:

You get 8 tomes and around 140 writs each 28 days if you do the 3 dailies. That comes to about 15 levels a month. Get a month’s supply and use them for fast leveling.

That’s assuming you don’t PvP. You get levels much faster if you PvP.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Ranger works fine for a whole lot of people. I know people who love their rangers and play them all the time. They run dungeons with them, do open world events with them, even PvP and WvW with them.

I think it was another thread where someone mentioned: We’ve learned to deal with it, so should you.

I am not sure if that’s how I would like to define “working fine”. There is still a big difference for me between making it work and working fine.

Vayne.8563:

So maybe assuming the profession is unplayable is a gross exaggeration.

I think the assumption is yours. He said it needs fixing, not that it’s unplayable as far as I can tell. Perhaps I missed the comment where he actually said it was unplayable. Apologies in advance if that’s the case.

There are bugs in every game. If the bug is minor it’s minor. I play a ranger just fine. I don’t have to “deal with it” even if someone else said so. Since I know a whole lot of people who enjoy their rangers and don’t think they’re bugged, or unplayable, I guess that would remain a matter of opinion. I have no trouble playing my ranger. I don’t have to deal with it. That’s your assumption.

Mirta.5029:

Try being an actual new player. You won’t even see Vistas, won’t get to Spvp till level 24, unlock activities at 40, etc
It’s so funny that it’s sad.

A new player wants to SPvP before they learn how to play the game? I’m not even sure why that’s an issue. You will be able to interact with vistas, you just won’t see them on the map…the first time you go through. On your second character you will see them. Same with skill points.

So for the first two to three hours someone plays this game the first time they learn the world. I’m not even sure why you think there’s a downside to that.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve leveled several characters now in the new NPE. I don’t like the new trait system and I don’t like the way that the story has been broken after level 70, but the rest of the NPE I don’t mind. And I like the leveling rewards. I find it quite fast and painless to get to level 15 now, it’s much faster than it was before.

Summary for the purpose of reflection:

I don’t like (trait system)
I don’t like (broken story)
I don’t mind (the rest)
I like (the rewards)
I find it quite fast and painless (going to level 15/80)

Would you consider this a positive reaction to this NPE?

Vayne.8563:

While I agree that the OP is entitled to his opinion, it is my belief that he’s making a mountain out of a molehill…which is, of course, only my opinion.

Just as a thought: Tripping over molehills regularly might end up feeling like climbing a mountain.

I’m going to play a typical character for at least 100 hours, probably more over time. I’m going to level to 20 for about two hours, maybe three. Of course, lots of people have tomes to level and 20th level scrolls.

The introduction was made to introduce people to the game, not to make it so experienced players have it easier.

Considering that the experience the OP is talking about is pretty much gone by level 20, and that you continue to get rewards for the next 60 levels after that, yes, I’d consider it a positive review. I also prefer the personal story being given in increments the way it is now and I prefer the personal story rewards too.

Over all, the transition to the NPE has affected me game more positively than negatively, even though there are things I like less about it. Hope that’s clearer for you.

@cesmode

If the gear was introduced to keep people playing, limiting it to Fractals would have made little sense.

Of course now, it would make less sense. How do you tell all the people who invested in making that stuff that it’s now only usable in Fractals?

Loiterer.4235:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Darkness.9732:

Endgame is quitting this game for me. They haven t fixed ranger after 2 years and half.
No future guys no future

Other games haven’t fixed stuff in over 10 years, and those games still have a future.

There’s a difference between not fixing some minor bug and not fixing an entire class.

Ranger works fine for a whole lot of people. I know people who love their rangers and play them all the time. They run dungeons with them, do open world events with them, even PvP and WvW with them.

So maybe assuming the profession is unplayable is a gross exaggeration.

I’ve leveled several characters now in the new NPE. I don’t like the new trait system and I don’t like the way that the story has been broken after level 70, but the rest of the NPE I don’t mind. And I like the leveling rewards.

I find it quite fast and painless to get to level 15 now, it’s much faster than it was before. While I agree that the OP is entitled to his opinion, it is my belief that he’s making a mountain out of a molehill…which is, of course, only my opinion.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Test.8734:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You also get them for doing the Living Story parts. I got all of mine doing that, plus the one guaranteed Coat box for beating the Vinewrath.

So . . . do you even play this game anymore, yourself?

Yep. I never said there isn’t a way to get them without gold; only that it’s not true that you cannot use gold to get them, as Vayne said.

You need to follow the argument better. Devata is saying the only way to get this stuff it to grind gold.

I’m saying you don’t have to grind gold to get this stuff. That is to say you have to play a lot of stuff in game to get this stuff. There is a NOMINAL gold fee associated with it which is very small. But many of the pieces you can get by just playing the story anyway and not paying any gold at all.

It’s nice to try to nitpick specific sentiments, but since my response was to Devata talking about farming gold to buy new stuff, this doesn’t really fall under that umbrella. And you can’t buy it with gold. Gold is one small component of what you need. You’re buying it with badges, which you can’t buy with gold.

Just because gold is needed for a small portion of some of it, doesn’t mean you can buy it with gold. If you had nothing but gold, you couldn’t get it.

Lets just keep it on the subject in stead of fighting with each other. Yes I talk about the grind, the only way to get something is with a currency it mainly being gold. So at that you are right Vayne the fact that you have one option where you also can spend partly gold is not what we talked about. But I did not day that specifically about ‘this stuff’ but in general about that is how you earn most. So there you are completely wrong.

I will add this about it.. While sure it’s not that much gold it’s the same as with some of the guild items you can buy with guild-tokens…. AND 5 gold. Then I am always like.. Come on.. really? Why always the gold again. I know the answer, gold drain but the problem is everything is already so much a gold grind we really don’t need a gold drain until they remove the grind.

Having played other games without adequate gold sinks, I can tell you that inflation sucks a whole lot worse than gold sinks. Be that as it may, there’s still the idea that if you only want to make one or two weapons, or only one a single weight of armor, the grind isn’t that bad. In fact, you can get carapace armor just by going through the story, except for the chest, which isnt’ that hard to get either.

It’ll eventually be multiple paths. That’s what the whole idea is about. Right now there’ll be one. Later on more will be added.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

To clarify, to avoid misunderstanding.

Devata’s complains is focused on the fact that everything comes back to gold. That is to say that you have to endlessly farm gold to buy what you want.

My response involves the newest armor and weapons in the game.

The ambrite weapons involve farming Drytop for both geodes and unidentified insect parts, as well as farming ambrite which can be done in the Silverwastes or Drytop. There is also a PvP reward track that provides what you need to make these weapons. Gold costs are minimal.

The Glorious Armor is a reward for PvPing and requires no gold to attain.

The carapace armor set requires farming in the Silverwastes for most of the components. There is a small gold cost involved, but it’s the kind of gold you’d naturally get by farming the rest of the stuff in the Silverwastes anyway. In other words, by the time you’ve gotten the other stuff you need, you’d have the gold without additional farming.

The luminscent armor comes from getting the carapace armor and requires no outlay of gold.

There are things in game that are being added that you can work for in game. There are also things you can get from black lion chests (particularly weapon sets) that would require gold farming in game to get. To be clear. I’ve never been in favor of this.

However there are still plenty of things you can get in game by playing.

I think the company is moving in the right direction. Naturally this type of shift takes time, but from what I can see, the game is improving in this area.

If you truely believe this game is not 100% designed around a gold standard, you are wrong.

There might be fluff outside of it, but all GW2 is at its core is a monetary system embedded in a virtual economy. The whole GW2 B2P system only works because of its gold standard.

That is why most stuff is mostly hidden behind RNG, this is why we can’t have nice things as rewards.

This won’t change, because this is the way ANet makes money.

I’m not arguing it is or isn’t. I’m saying the newest stuff available to us in game doesn’t depend on the gold standard. That’s fairly self explanatory.

Every business is generally centered on making money. In WoW it’s a monthly fee and a cash shop both. Clearly the gem store is a part of the game’s income. Clearly Anet is going to want to encourage gem store sales.

That said I don’t personally find the gem store that intrusive.

Obviously a balance has to exist between in game rewards and gem store rewards. For a while, the balance was in favor of the gem store but more recently that’s changed.

And that’s all I’m saying.

Obtena.7952:

The irony; many of these new items that you can’t buy … require grinding. People aren’t understanding that it’s not the grinding they don’t like, it’s the way the game gives you ‘stuff’ and what kind of ‘stuff’ it gives you.

Well Devata, who I was responding to, doesn’t seem to have problems with farming. Her issue is the cash shop and how everything is all about gold acquisition.

Of course, the new stuff IS grindy, but then, it’s just a skin. It doesn’t prevent me from playing content.

Jaymee.1560:

hwpersia.2065:

She is the best person in the whole world

her Husband !!!!

lmao… I love you too, baby… Now stop snooping on my posts :P

Okay that’s just…adorable. lol

To clarify, to avoid misunderstanding.

Devata’s complains is focused on the fact that everything comes back to gold. That is to say that you have to endlessly farm gold to buy what you want.

My response involves the newest armor and weapons in the game.

The ambrite weapons involve farming Drytop for both geodes and unidentified insect parts, as well as farming ambrite which can be done in the Silverwastes or Drytop. There is also a PvP reward track that provides what you need to make these weapons. Gold costs are minimal.

The Glorious Armor is a reward for PvPing and requires no gold to attain.

The carapace armor set requires farming in the Silverwastes for most of the components. There is a small gold cost involved, but it’s the kind of gold you’d naturally get by farming the rest of the stuff in the Silverwastes anyway. In other words, by the time you’ve gotten the other stuff you need, you’d have the gold without additional farming.

The luminscent armor comes from getting the carapace armor and requires no outlay of gold.

There are things in game that are being added that you can work for in game. There are also things you can get from black lion chests (particularly weapon sets) that would require gold farming in game to get. To be clear. I’ve never been in favor of this.

However there are still plenty of things you can get in game by playing.

I think the company is moving in the right direction. Naturally this type of shift takes time, but from what I can see, the game is improving in this area.

Some of the later story instances are a lot of fun for me, but I never really liked Claw Island. I don’t find it hard, I just didn’t enjoy it. Other later missions were quite fun for me, however.

I guess it’s just a matter of opinion.

The big issue is the way that the NPE rewrote the end of the story to make less sense. That really does need to be fixed.

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

It’s not ONLY used by people that like to grind. It’s also used by people that understand that working for something is part of the reward system in any MMO.

In other words, people who want more of the same instead of wanting a MMO that breaks conventions.

Vayne.8563:

Just because gold is needed for a small portion of some of it, doesn’t mean you can buy it with gold. If you had nothing but gold, you couldn’t get it.

You need to make your arguments better. Saying you can get something without gold (which you said) is different from saying you cannot get something using gold (which you also said, and in which you were wrong).

Actually my argument is fine. Sometimes context is everything. Taking a sentence out of a bunch of sentences to try to prove a point only means you’ve lost the argument.

Test.8734:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You also get them for doing the Living Story parts. I got all of mine doing that, plus the one guaranteed Coat box for beating the Vinewrath.

So . . . do you even play this game anymore, yourself?

Yep. I never said there isn’t a way to get them without gold; only that it’s not true that you cannot use gold to get them, as Vayne said.

You need to follow the argument better. Devata is saying the only way to get this stuff it to grind gold.

I’m saying you don’t have to grind gold to get this stuff. That is to say you have to play a lot of stuff in game to get this stuff. There is a NOMINAL gold fee associated with it which is very small. But many of the pieces you can get by just playing the story anyway and not paying any gold at all.

It’s nice to try to nitpick specific sentiments, but since my response was to Devata talking about farming gold to buy new stuff, this doesn’t really fall under that umbrella. And you can’t buy it with gold. Gold is one small component of what you need. You’re buying it with badges, which you can’t buy with gold.

Just because gold is needed for a small portion of some of it, doesn’t mean you can buy it with gold. If you had nothing but gold, you couldn’t get it.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

That is to say you can get ambrite weapons without gold. You can get carapace armor without gold. You can get luminencent armor without gold. you can get the new PvP armor without gold.

(…)

So the last three armor sets added to this game you can actually get without spending gold, but yes, you have to farm for them. In fact, there’s no way to get them with gold.

Uh… Caparace armor boxes are sold for crests and, guess what, gold. So yep, there is a way to get them with gold.

Do you even play this game anymore?

Obtena.7952:

I guess you have a problem with context then. You’ve assumed I enjoy the grind. That’s an incorrect premise, so your statement is false.

The “people who are complaining want everything handed to them” speech is used by those who like the grind. Because everyone else can clear see the difference between playing a game to have fun and working in a game.

You can’t get them with gold alone. And the amount of gold you need to get them is neglible. Also many of them aren’t sold. You can’t buy a carapace coat box for gold. You sure you play this game?

Zenith.7301:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

aerial.7021:

Lheimroo.2947:

~

~

~

Well-founded or not, it’s an opinion. I have full ascended items on three characters and I’ll never have to grind on those characters again. Not for gear.

More to the point, I have a boatload of other characters who don’t have a single piece of ascended gear…well maybe rings from fractals that I’ve done but that’s it, and none of those characters are excluded from content.

That’s the difference that you refuse to acknowledge.

You have one aspect of the game that you can’t stand and you blame everything else for it, but you don’t acknowledge that others, not just me, find other MMOs more grindy than this one.

You have an opinion and it’s a strong one and everything is jaded based on that opinion. I don’t think you could approach this game in an unbiased manner because you’re looking for things to support your dislike of the business model. That’s the worst kind of science.

~

Guild Wars has always had grind for cosmetics. It was always supposed to. I don’t see why you can’t recognize that.

I did not play a lot of GW1 but as far as I know GW1 was way more about lore and PvP then cosmetics. Mini’s you mainly got from birthdays and then there where like two sets of armor of what at least one was really grindy?

Could be wrong but thats what I know about it. I don’t think you can really compare that to how GW2 works. It’s much more an MMO where collecting items is also a more important part of the game. So turning that into a grind also different then doing that in GW1 I would think.

Then again, I could not really start a discussion with you about GW1 as I simply don’t know enough about it.

Guild Wars 1 was a grind for cosmetics. Just about everything in that game was about having different look to your armor or weapon.

A basic set of armor costs 10% of the elite armor, but elite armor had the same stats. Exactly the same stats.

The people who came from Guild Wars 1, always expected this cosmetics grind. What we didn’t want was ascended gear, or level cap increases. That’s because we had the same stats from the first game through all the rest of the games. We didn’t want or need more. We didn’t want ascended gear, because it was too hard to get and it remains, in my mind, too hard to get. The only good thing about it to me is that you don’t need it. I don’t feel it adds anything to the game.

There were two sets of armor that was massively hard to get and a boatload of rare weapon skins as well.

I tried to get a frog scepter for years in Guild Wars 1. Yes I could have bought it with gold, but I wanted to get it. I ran the dungeon bogroot growths until I couldn’t look at it any more. No frog scepter. Then even if you did get one as a drop, it might not have been for the stats you wanted anyway.

There were also minis that were so rare, even as rich as I got, I’d never have been able to afford them. The mini polar bear for example, if you wanted to buy it with gold, you’d have to farm endlessly for years.

And you’d have to buy it from another player, because there was no marketplace there. You’d have to stand around kamadan and negotiate to buy or sell anything.

So Guild Wars 2, which had the update model you keep saying is better, still had the same type of grind for cosmetics.

Nothing in GW1 took long to get. Even Obsidian armor I got in less than 2 weeks by soloing Hierophant’s. In a solo Hierophant run I got about 300k worth of items to sell. Do a couple of those runs and you had the gold for the most expensive stuff ingame.

Please don’t compare GW1 grind to GW2 grind. They’re not even on the same galaxy.

Yep, I bet you maxed out your Luxon track in two weeks. Because that’s grind for power. Did you even play Guild Wars 1?

Devata.6589:

@Vayne

tigirius.9014:

Vayne.8563:

I grinded just as much in Guild Wars 1 as I did here, to make my skills more powerful. It wasn’t GEAR grind, but it was still grind to become more powerful.

Considering that in GW2 the materials to craft and the drops from bosses are all locked behind a pretty hefty and manipulated (with DR no less) RNG system that statement is a lie. Sorry, but you had a direct result for completing the tasks for obtaining the skills you wanted, there was no dice roll to see if you got it or got some other ability.

The two are not the same.

You see, this is why discussing the GW1 example is useless. You could try and tell me anything and I don’t know how is really worked in GW1.

What tigirius says here makes a huge difference.

I don’t mind being busy collecting those cosmetics in GW2 like for ever (different cosmetics all the time) as long as there is a more direct and viable way to get them. A more direct result also. (even if there is some RNG involved in it).

If the cosmetics work like tigirius explains the skills work, I would have been fine with it and then it does indeed look there is a big difference between GW1 and GW2. What dismisses your idea that it was already exactly like this in GW1 and so it is completely cash-shop unrelated.

And with a lot of the new stuff there is a direct way to get it. That is to say you can get ambrite weapons without gold. You can get carapace armor without gold. You can get luminencent armor without gold. you can get the new PvP armor without gold.

Do you even play this game anymore?

Tigirius is wrong because there was RNG for many of the things you needed or you farmed gold to get them. He has a bug with the RNG in this game even though RNG existed in the last game. He believes he has an unlucky account. He has an hot button issue just like you do. Those issues are related but not the same.

So the last three armor sets added to this game you can actually get without spending gold, but yes, you have to farm for them. In fact, there’s no way to get them with gold.

You were saying?

No one can answer that question. I’m not even sure Anet can yet.

Only one for now, with more being released along the way.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

The combination of what people were saying on the forums at that time and people not logging in makes it hard to assume anything else though…and it’s a good bet that at least part of those people, including both my sons, left after they got max level gear.

See, you are doing the exact same thing you did in your previous post. You are asking us to rely only on your interpretation and on the opinion of people who you just allude to (be it when you say " I’m not the only one who came to this conclusion either" or your “sons”). Meanwhile we have already seen flaws in your interpretation (see the Manifesto), and we can’t rely merely on people you mention (just like I could say my guild of 1.000 players left because of ascended, without that being true).

What were people saying? A lot of things. Some that they didn’t like the high level content. Some that they didn’t have content enough. Some that they wanted more gear to grind for. Some that they wished the game had fewer levels.

Your assumption – that people stopped playing because ascended gear didn’t exist – is a guess. Which was also ArenaNet’s guess at the time, since you are basically (and unsurprisingly) agreeing with them. In other hand, the outcry following ascended erupted this forum at least as much as the discussions we had from people saying they had nothing to do before. So was ascended the right decision? Doesn’t look so.

Vayne.8563:

And you’ve yet to give me any other reason why that change would have been made.

I did. Because ArenaNet made a mistake.

Well it’s been nice chatting with you. We can leave it up to each individual reader to make a decision about which scenario is most likely.

Have a great night. I won’t be responding again.

segman.3560:

Vayne.8563:

Arkinos.7245:

Vayne.8563:

Do people really need to rub the OP’s face in this? Isn’t it enough that he’s out that money? Is there reason to add insult to injury?

Sometimes I wonder about this community.

OP needs to understand that he was punished for being greedy.

Making fun of him means he is more likely to get the message and avoid making this mistake again.

Most people wont learn and make this mistake over and over again, this is the only way of teaching them not to.

I don’t know. I taught my kids lessons like this without personally attacking or ridiculing them, but what do I know.

Plz stop patronizing other people. Your children your problem, his children his problem. Stop. Forums will be much better without your overprotective attitude.

Thank you in advance.

LMAO! It is pick on Vayne day! I knew it.

If you want to attack and ridicule people, that’s your business. My commenting on it is mine. Thanks.

I hated it in DnD and didn’t like the locked off areas in Lotro either.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

Again, if you think you know how many people were playing and logging in better than Anet did back in November when ascended gear came out, there’s not much to talk about.

You’re making the same mistake that ArenaNet did. You are assuming that knowing how many people were playing is the same as knowing why those people were playing, and why everyone else wasn’t.

Are you going to claim ArenaNet has some miraculous mind reading device that allowed them to know exactly how everyone who stopped playing the game did so because they felt they needed one extra gear tier?

Because, without that device, all ArenaNet could do is take a guess. Just like you. They guessed that adding a new gear tier would keep more people playing than they would lose by announcing said gear tier. What we do know is that said new gear tier caused a massive uproar in the community, at least as loud as (if not louder) than the complain that players had nothing to do at max level.

Vayne.8563:

I’m working on a hypothesis that the company didn’t just make this change to kitten people off. Taken in combination with the mood on the forum at that time, I can put two and two together and get four. I’m not the only one who came to this conclusion either.

You are relying on your interpretation, assuming that’s something reliable at all. We know that at least about the Manifesto, you were wrong. You’re also relying on the vague other people who reached the same conclusion, without presenting any kind of reliable evidence that they can be believed in. So nope, that’s not a great argument.

Obtena.7952:

Spamming posts does not help. Just because a thread has an overwhelming number of complaints does not indicate it’s more of an issue to players than one that does not. The fact that ANet has replied with their position on this is pretty much a /thread right there.

In other hand, a topic that has an overwhelming number of clomplaints is more likely to be more of an issue to players than one that does not have more than five posts. Ideally ArenaNet would read the topics to see which is which, but having a very big topic is surely a way to get their attention.

The combination of what people were saying on the forums at that time and people not logging in makes it hard to assume anything else though…and it’s a good bet that at least part of those people, including both my sons, left after they got max level gear. They were simply more used to WOW and without being told what to do, they found the game boring.

Both of them came back to make ascended gear. I said so at the time. So the combination the forums, both my sons and Anet’s decision seems to indicate that. Anet also hangs out in map chat an listens to what people are saying.

And you’ve yet to give me any other reason why that change would have been made.

OP, I think you’re prematurely disappointed, because no real detail has been given to what is actually being done.

The specializations have been compared to secondary professions in Guild Wars 2. There’s only one per profession now, but it opens up an entire world of future expansion. At very least it completely changes the way you play characters.

We know so little of the Revenant. Are you sure one of the people you can’t channel isn’t a healer and doesn’t have good healing? We don’t really know anything about what you can and can’t do with the Revenant yet, so why judge before you know.

The mastery system is the thing I’m most interested in personally.

There have been several long standing complaints about this game, particularly from Guild Wars 1 players.

Hard, challenging content is needed. We need more ways to customize/personalize our characters. And we need more build diversity.

All of this stuff is coming and we have no detail yet.

But imagine this as the starting point of something else. Anet has just said no more tiers of gear, no raising of the level cap. They’re giving us horizontal progression in very similar ways to the way Guild Wars 1 did.

At least wait to see the detail before being disappointed.

Arkinos.7245:

Vayne.8563:

Do people really need to rub the OP’s face in this? Isn’t it enough that he’s out that money? Is there reason to add insult to injury?

Sometimes I wonder about this community.

OP needs to understand that he was punished for being greedy.

Making fun of him means he is more likely to get the message and avoid making this mistake again.

Most people wont learn and make this mistake over and over again, this is the only way of teaching them not to.

I don’t know. I taught my kids lessons like this without personally attacking or ridiculing them, but what do I know.

Test.8734:

Obtena.7952:

Frankly, this topic should be locked:

1. Anet replied to the concern
2. I think everyone has covered both sides of the topic thoroughly

Not much left. The only reason anyone would want to have it left open is because they are campaigning.

To be honest, the amount of posts help. The circular discussions don’t do anything, but it’s different for ArenaNet to see, “Look, there are 4 THOUSAND posts complaining about traits!” than “Look, there are 8 posts talking about how Defiance sucks”.

Just see Vayne’s post a bit above mine – he claims that he knew a lot of people felt they didn’t have anything do to at max level because a lot of people were complaining on the forum about it. If we see a lot of people complaining about grind on the forum (and better to do that in a single topic than have dozen topics about the same thing), maybe ArenaNet will do something about it.

Again, if you think you know how many people were playing and logging in better than Anet did back in November when ascended gear came out, there’s not much to talk about.

I’m working on a hypothesis that the company didn’t just make this change to kitten people off. Taken in combination with the mood on the forum at that time, I can put two and two together and get four. I’m not the only one who came to this conclusion either.

But you know if you have some better reason why Anet made this change knowing how much it would kitten off their core player base, and they did know, then by all means, I’m willing to hear it.

Do people really need to rub the OP’s face in this? Isn’t it enough that he’s out that money? Is there reason to add insult to injury?

Sometimes I wonder about this community.

Paradox.4257:

I have learnt my lesson. I just assumed that someone wouldn’t lie about it all just for some gold. ._.

It’s crappy to learn lessons that way. I feel for you. But definitely report the person who did this. They deserve to be banned.

Unless the proposed system would have an otherwise negative impact on the game. It would be like saying supposed we introduced poison into the water. This conversation is just about that. Should we do it.

And someone comes along and says well people will die if you do it and you’d be saying well, no, that’s not what this conversation is about.

That’s obviously an exaagerated analogy just for entertainment purposes, but you’re asking a question that affects everyone in the game not just you. You can’t expect them not to have an opinion on it.

Loiterer.4235:

The hate directed at chickenooble makes me think that a lot of people here suffer from a severe case of entitlement more than anything else. He (excuse me if you’re a she, chicken) didn’t call anyone lazy or said that you lot shouldn’t play video games but proposed that perhaps you could do something other than play video games every now and then so you don’t pour the entirety of your remaining life into a virtual reality. Preposterous, I know.

It doesn’t have to be work, much less paid work. Anything will do. Throwing in the towel and saying that real life sucks so much that you might as well just escape into Tyria is doing yourself a disservice. You’re a human. You were born as a member of a species that conquered this planet and then some. We rose to the peak of the food chain by being clever and not by being strong. Physical limitations shouldn’t mean an end of a life, much less an end of ambitions. Especially not in this age.

Do you already pursue goals unrelated to gaming? Then congratulations, chickenooble’s comment does not pertain to you and as such you have no reason to be outraged and type out your entire medical history.

I know that gaming is a wonderful escapism but escapism should never be the be-all and end-all of one’s own life.

You don’t necessarily say that life sucks and escape into a video game. If the video game gives you relief from pain, of course you’re going to do it. If you find something else that gives you relief from pain you might do that instead…or you might not.

But being judgmental and that’s what this is, doesn’t help anyone. The way Chicken came across was judgmental and crass.

Maybe communications isn’t his/her strong point, which does happen. But telling people they shouldn’t react to someone who offends them is relatively pointless.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

aerial.7021:

Lheimroo.2947:

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I did not play a lot of GW1 but as far as I know GW1 was way more about lore and PvP then cosmetics. Mini’s you mainly got from birthdays and then there where like two sets of armor of what at least one was really grindy?

Could be wrong but thats what I know about it. I don’t think you can really compare that to how GW2 works. It’s much more an MMO where collecting items is also a more important part of the game. So turning that into a grind also different then doing that in GW1 I would think.

Then again, I could not really start a discussion with you about GW1 as I simply don’t know enough about it.

snip

There were two sets of armor that was massively hard to get and a boatload of rare weapon skins as well.

I tried to get a frog scepter for years in Guild Wars 1. Yes I could have bought it with gold, but I wanted to get it. I ran the dungeon bogroot growths until I couldn’t look at it any more. No frog scepter. Then even if you did get one as a drop, it might not have been for the stats you wanted anyway.

There were also minis that were so rare, even as rich as I got, I’d never have been able to afford them. The mini polar bear for example, if you wanted to buy it with gold, you’d have to farm endlessly for years.

And you’d have to buy it from another player, because there was no marketplace there. You’d have to stand around kamadan and negotiate to buy or sell anything.

So Guild Wars 2, which had the update model you keep saying is better, still had the same type of grind for cosmetics.

“I tried to get a frog scepter for years in Guild Wars 1. Yes I could have bought it with gold, but I wanted to get it. I ran the dungeon bogroot growths until I couldn’t look at it any more. No frog scepter.”

Wait, so you could get it without gold but by directly working for it. Well if they could do that in GW2 I would already be very happy. And then it would be in line with GW1 as well. It sounds like the drop-rate was a little to low (it should be viable to get it) but again I can’t say much about it as I did not play it a lot. Maybe the scepter was equal to the GW2 legendary, I don’t know?

Maybe GW1 had 1 extremely rare (legendary) version of everything (every weapons, 1 armor set and one mini) while the rest was doable. Without knowing that sort of things I sadly can’t really say much about it.

What surprises me is this part: “Yes I could have bought it with gold, but I wanted to get it.” so then you should perfectly understand why I say I don’t want the gold grind but why I want to directly work towards it.

When I say I could have bought it with gold it was a lot of gold. I’d have had to grind/farm the gold to get the gold to buy it. Afterwhich Id’ have spent all my gold. It’s EXACTLY like this game in that way. Same deal.

With ascended stuff you can farm the gold to buy the components to craft it with no waiting. In that game, I’d have had to farm the gold to buy the scepter and bankrupt myself in the process and then start all over.

The fact is, the thing you’re saying would make some sort of difference, didn’t make that sort of difference in Guild Wars 1.

Only you completely ignore the fact that you could directly work towards those items as well what makes it completely different in this game.

Also you ignore the idea / question if there where only a few extremely hard to get / grindy things while the rest was maybe all more viable and less grindy to get. The fact that you do makes me wonder if that is the case what would indeed make that on part with the legendaries.

If only the legendaries would be like this I would be oke with it, but the problem is that it’s the case for most of the cosmetics in GW2 so it still seems to be very different.

The point is I worked for that other thing for years and didn’t get it due to RNG. And somehow you think that’s better?

Buying it was an option but it was just too much money to spend. There were other things I wanted more.

The point is, that game wasn’t so different from this game, but you keep saying if this game was more like that, making money off expansions it would be different.

It’s not really. Not in the sense you’re claiming it would be.

naiasonod.9265:

People actually buy those things? O.O

I do but for the fun of looking back from later…not to gain any kind of strategy. There are too many sites that have better advise than any of those things.

I like the part about the dye seeds. Always entertaining.

Obtena.7952:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I’m just glad they’ve now confirmed there’ll never be another tier of gear and they won’t raise the level cap either.

Except things change, and decisions change, so we may well see another tier of gear. After all, there wasn’t supposed to be gear past Exotic, either. That’s why Legendaries originally carried the same stat levels as Exotic Gear.

ANet’s word isn’t really worth a lot, quite frankly.

That’s just speculation. Did Anet actually say there would never be a tier past exotic? I don’t think they did.

They never said it, no. But they did say that BIS gear should be relatively easy to get without grinding, and I’d say ascended gear, at very least, changed that.

But then a lot of people who came from other games, got max level gear and left. Anet really had no choice but to do SOMETHING. They decided on a compromise. Give people something to grind for that isn’t actually required to do anything, and at least keep people playing longer. Give those who like to grind out gear something to do (yes there are people who want that play style).

The compromise doesn’t leave everyone happy. Hardliners on both sides will take issue with it. Those who wanted NO vertical progression are going to have a cow. Those who want full on gear progession won’t stay…but many people, like me, are sort of in the middle. I don’t like it, but I can see why they did it.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I’m just glad they’ve now confirmed there’ll never be another tier of gear and they won’t raise the level cap either.

Except things change, and decisions change, so we may well see another tier of gear. After all, there wasn’t supposed to be gear past Exotic, either. That’s why Legendaries originally carried the same stat levels as Exotic Gear.

ANet’s word isn’t really worth a lot, quite frankly.

First of all they said this recently in an interview. We don’t really know about ascended, because Anet did also say that ascended was mentioned by them pre launch and had always been meant to be in the game. Of course, that doesn’t mean it was meant to be in the game in it’s current form.

However, Anet has kept most of their words. If I was dealing with a person and 90% of the time they kept their word, I would consider those people quite honest.

It’s amazing that we hold developers to higher standards than our own familes.

To those who look at Guild Wars 1 and think there was no grind or farming, I remember entire guilds dedicated to farming.

Faction farming guilds, gold farming guilds….I had a friend who farmed feathers over and over ad nauseum just to buy the stuff he wanted in game. I had friends who did the Vatteir farm. I had friends who raptor farmed. I’m sure those who played remember VS farming (voltaic spear for those at home). Anyone else farm those Z keys to open the Zaishen Chest?

Remember those double lightbringer point weekends were everyone was farming lightbringer points in the sufurous wastes. How many times did we run the same content for the rarest chance of a mini polar bear.

The grind, for me anyway, hasn’t changed MUCH from Guild Wars 1. But yeah, the ascended gear was definitely a departure for me.

I’m just glad they’ve now confirmed there’ll never be another tier of gear and they won’t raise the level cap either.

Forgot all the time I spent farming decayed orr emblems outside Bergen Hot Springs on my 55 monk. lol

Edit: Oh and let’s not forget ecto farming on solo rits in the Underworld. We never ever called it grinding. We called it farming.

climonite.8537:

To bored to read all of it, but IMO it’s a grind, you either grind for a legendary to look good, or good looking skins, or you grind for better stats. There’s no difference. I’ve never cared on any game to be the strongest gear wise, I work for it, grind for it, but not with the feeling that i’m going to be stronger. It’s a goal I set for myself to get, and whatever it is, skins, gears, mini’s, tonics, idc, I have to grind for it, and in GW2 i’ve never grinded so hard to get 1 skin.

It’s the content GW2 has, if it’s not a grind cause you’re not forced to do it, it means your game has no content that’s worth anything, which isn’t the case to me but that seems to be the way arenanet looks at it?

I don’t think Anet looks at it the way you’re saying. You have to look at it within the context of the genre.

There are many many MMORPGs out there where if you don’t have the newest/highest tier of gear, you simply can’t do certain content. You’re physically locked out of that content. You can’t even ATTEMPT that content.

While I leveled in Rift I had stats going up all the time. When I got to max level, they added a new stat I never had before called focus.

Until my focus was 100, I couldn’t queue for a specific dungeon. And the amount of damage I could do to creatures in that dungeon was zero. That is you needed 100 focus to do any damage at all to that creature. It was required by the game. If I tried to use the LFG tool to queue for the dungeon, the game itself would tell me I don’t meet those requirements.

In Guild Wars 2, from just drops and playing, you get pretty much the gear you need in the open world. You get karma just playing to buy some stuff, but even if you were all in greens, you wouldn’t be excluded from much content.

It makes a world of difference to me. It’s not just that I don’t have to grind for that gear but without grinding for it, I can play pretty much everything in the game. Just about all the game is open to me except the highest level fractals, which were designed specifically for people who like that play style.

But I can still experience every fractal without grinding.

People who don’t suffer chronic, constant pain, often don’t get it. They don’t understand how it wears you down. It’s an endless battle just to get out of bed, nevermind worrying about doing something productive. There are times when you can’t sleep for weeks or months at a time that make it hard to focus or concentrate. There are times when just doing the basic stuff you need to do seems impossibly hard.

The distraction of a game that comes with no real expectations or pressure is very different than a job, or something that these people would consider socially acceptable. Because if you don’t or can’t do it one day, it’s okay it’ll be there the next day.

I wouldn’t listen to those who have never lived in that situation because they can’t know. They speak from the point of view of a healthy person trying to tell people less healthy what they can and can’t do, what they should and shouldn’t do.

My wife and I have met, over the years, many such people. I truly hope those people never end up suffering something so debilitating that they’d know what others are going through.

Ashen.2907:

Tamasan.6457:

Zera Allimatti.2541:

There is more money to be made by enticing the majority of the players to keep forking over money to buy gems to buy keys for a chance at something they will likely never get than having those same players pay a one-time fee for the same item.

That’s fundamentally dishonest. And I don’t think Anet is doing that; they’re better than that.

That is the whole point of lockboxes. The reason they exist at all is to get people to spend more on whatever they are trying to buy than they otherwise would. There is not reason for lockboxes to exist other than to prey upon those with either a weakness for gambling or an unrealistic perception of statistics.

While I agree that there are people who are compulsive gamblers that are drawn to playing lock boxes, I don’t think that’s the only reason for them.

There are also people who aren’t compulsive, but like to buy boxes say once a month and get random stuff.

There’s one guy in my guild who spends like $50 a montkittens. That’s it. That’s all he spends. But he enjoys getting stuff and not knowing what he’s going to get. That’s a pleasurable experience for him.

I don’t get it myself, but you can’t say there aren’t people out there who don’t enjoy gambling who aren’t addicted to gambling.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

aerial.7021:

Lheimroo.2947:

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Well-founded or not, it’s an opinion. I have full ascended items on three characters and I’ll never have to grind on those characters again. Not for gear.

More to the point, I have a boatload of other characters who don’t have a single piece of ascended gear…well maybe rings from fractals that I’ve done but that’s it, and none of those characters are excluded from content.

snip

~

Guild Wars has always had grind for cosmetics. It was always supposed to. I don’t see why you can’t recognize that.

I did not play a lot of GW1 but as far as I know GW1 was way more about lore and PvP then cosmetics. Mini’s you mainly got from birthdays and then there where like two sets of armor of what at least one was really grindy?

Could be wrong but thats what I know about it. I don’t think you can really compare that to how GW2 works. It’s much more an MMO where collecting items is also a more important part of the game. So turning that into a grind also different then doing that in GW1 I would think.

Then again, I could not really start a discussion with you about GW1 as I simply don’t know enough about it.

Guild Wars 1 was a grind for cosmetics. Just about everything in that game was about having different look to your armor or weapon.

A basic set of armor costs 10% of the elite armor, but elite armor had the same stats. Exactly the same stats.

The people who came from Guild Wars 1, always expected this cosmetics grind. What we didn’t want was ascended gear, or level cap increases. That’s because we had the same stats from the first game through all the rest of the games. We didn’t want or need more. We didn’t want ascended gear, because it was too hard to get and it remains, in my mind, too hard to get. The only good thing about it to me is that you don’t need it. I don’t feel it adds anything to the game.

There were two sets of armor that was massively hard to get and a boatload of rare weapon skins as well.

I tried to get a frog scepter for years in Guild Wars 1. Yes I could have bought it with gold, but I wanted to get it. I ran the dungeon bogroot growths until I couldn’t look at it any more. No frog scepter. Then even if you did get one as a drop, it might not have been for the stats you wanted anyway.

There were also minis that were so rare, even as rich as I got, I’d never have been able to afford them. The mini polar bear for example, if you wanted to buy it with gold, you’d have to farm endlessly for years.

And you’d have to buy it from another player, because there was no marketplace there. You’d have to stand around kamadan and negotiate to buy or sell anything.

So Guild Wars 2, which had the update model you keep saying is better, still had the same type of grind for cosmetics.

“I tried to get a frog scepter for years in Guild Wars 1. Yes I could have bought it with gold, but I wanted to get it. I ran the dungeon bogroot growths until I couldn’t look at it any more. No frog scepter.”

Wait, so you could get it without gold but by directly working for it. Well if they could do that in GW2 I would already be very happy. And then it would be in line with GW1 as well. It sounds like the drop-rate was a little to low (it should be viable to get it) but again I can’t say much about it as I did not play it a lot. Maybe the scepter was equal to the GW2 legendary, I don’t know?

Maybe GW1 had 1 extremely rare (legendary) version of everything (every weapons, 1 armor set and one mini) while the rest was doable. Without knowing that sort of things I sadly can’t really say much about it.

What surprises me is this part: “Yes I could have bought it with gold, but I wanted to get it.” so then you should perfectly understand why I say I don’t want the gold grind but why I want to directly work towards it.

When I say I could have bought it with gold it was a lot of gold. I’d have had to grind/farm the gold to get the gold to buy it. Afterwhich Id’ have spent all my gold. It’s EXACTLY like this game in that way. Same deal.

With ascended stuff you can farm the gold to buy the components to craft it with no waiting. In that game, I’d have had to farm the gold to buy the scepter and bankrupt myself in the process and then start all over.

The fact is, the thing you’re saying would make some sort of difference, didn’t make that sort of difference in Guild Wars 1.