Guild Wars 2

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

aerial.7021:

Lheimroo.2947:

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Well-founded or not, it’s an opinion. I have full ascended items on three characters and I’ll never have to grind on those characters again. Not for gear.

More to the point, I have a boatload of other characters who don’t have a single piece of ascended gear…well maybe rings from fractals that I’ve done but that’s it, and none of those characters are excluded from content.

That’s the difference that you refuse to acknowledge.

You have one aspect of the game that you can’t stand and you blame everything else for it, but you don’t acknowledge that others, not just me, find other MMOs more grindy than this one.

You have an opinion and it’s a strong one and everything is jaded based on that opinion. I don’t think you could approach this game in an unbiased manner because you’re looking for things to support your dislike of the business model. That’s the worst kind of science.

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Guild Wars has always had grind for cosmetics. It was always supposed to. I don’t see why you can’t recognize that.

I did not play a lot of GW1 but as far as I know GW1 was way more about lore and PvP then cosmetics. Mini’s you mainly got from birthdays and then there where like two sets of armor of what at least one was really grindy?

Could be wrong but thats what I know about it. I don’t think you can really compare that to how GW2 works. It’s much more an MMO where collecting items is also a more important part of the game. So turning that into a grind also different then doing that in GW1 I would think.

Then again, I could not really start a discussion with you about GW1 as I simply don’t know enough about it.

Guild Wars 1 was a grind for cosmetics. Just about everything in that game was about having different look to your armor or weapon.

A basic set of armor costs 10% of the elite armor, but elite armor had the same stats. Exactly the same stats.

The people who came from Guild Wars 1, always expected this cosmetics grind. What we didn’t want was ascended gear, or level cap increases. That’s because we had the same stats from the first game through all the rest of the games. We didn’t want or need more. We didn’t want ascended gear, because it was too hard to get and it remains, in my mind, too hard to get. The only good thing about it to me is that you don’t need it. I don’t feel it adds anything to the game.

There were two sets of armor that was massively hard to get and a boatload of rare weapon skins as well.

I tried to get a frog scepter for years in Guild Wars 1. Yes I could have bought it with gold, but I wanted to get it. I ran the dungeon bogroot growths until I couldn’t look at it any more. No frog scepter. Then even if you did get one as a drop, it might not have been for the stats you wanted anyway.

There were also minis that were so rare, even as rich as I got, I’d never have been able to afford them. The mini polar bear for example, if you wanted to buy it with gold, you’d have to farm endlessly for years.

And you’d have to buy it from another player, because there was no marketplace there. You’d have to stand around kamadan and negotiate to buy or sell anything.

So Guild Wars 2, which had the update model you keep saying is better, still had the same type of grind for cosmetics.

Sylent.3165:

The game has overall a great community. I have issues with dungeons at times when I’m on my thief because people often only like certain classes. I don’t do dungeons often though so it’s ok.

Final fantasy 14 I enjoyed the dungeons a lot more with trinity system and dungeon queue though. Very rarely had problems with the community.

But gw2 with no sub fee is beyond worthy of the price tag. Truth be told it feels like a massive single player game though with other people running around unless doing wvw or pvp. But still a great game. The expansion will add player progression which makes a bright future for the game I hope. Only thing this game truly is missing for an mmo is changing skills. Your stuck with the exact same 5 skills the entire game. Gets kinda boring after 50 hours or so but you can make new characters. Like I said though very much worth the price on this game

Well I’m not stuck with the same five skills, because I used different weapons at different times. Also the update will be adding specializations which will change the way you play as well.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

aerial.7021:

Lheimroo.2947:

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Well-founded or not, it’s an opinion. I have full ascended items on three characters and I’ll never have to grind on those characters again. Not for gear.

More to the point, I have a boatload of other characters who don’t have a single piece of ascended gear…well maybe rings from fractals that I’ve done but that’s it, and none of those characters are excluded from content.

That’s the difference that you refuse to acknowledge.

You have one aspect of the game that you can’t stand and you blame everything else for it, but you don’t acknowledge that others, not just me, find other MMOs more grindy than this one.

You have an opinion and it’s a strong one and everything is jaded based on that opinion. I don’t think you could approach this game in an unbiased manner because you’re looking for things to support your dislike of the business model. That’s the worst kind of science.

“~Stuff about ascended gear~
That’s the difference that you refuse to acknowledge.”

Uhhm no I don’t refuse that. For me it’s about cosmetics. I couldn’t care less about BiS gear. That’s likely why those other games where never a grind for me.

“You have one aspect of the game that you can’t stand and you blame everything else for it”
No, Vayne, the other way around. There are a few things I dislike and I ‘well-founded’ blame (mainly) one aspect of the game for most of those things. This is also where the `Well-founded or not” part is kinda important.. the part you try to dismiss before starting the rest of your comment.

“but you don’t acknowledge that others, not just me, find other MMOs more grindy than this one.”
Come on Vayne, how many times did I not already acknowledge that in this thread??
I could start quoting them all but I would suggest you go and read back.

I do acknowledge that, I also say that it’s mainly depending on what part of the game you focus / what game-play you prefer. (next to how well you can tolerate the grind)
For example you are now talking about ascended stuff, so BiS gear. Maybe that part is grindy in WoW and I so do acknowledge that people who prefer that sort of stuff might then find WoW more grindy as GW2.

I really couldn’t say much about that because as I don’t care even a little bit for BiS stuff, I never tried to get it in WoW and have also not been trying to get it in GW2 so I can’t compare it.

What I prefer is the hunt for cosmetics, toys, mini’s, mounts, finishers and all that sort of fun items. I did try to go for those things in both games (as far as they exist in the games) and had fun doing that in WoW, it sometimes was some farming for one item, other where challenging but the total experience was never a grind, in fact it was a lot of fun.
In GW2 on the other hand the only real way to get most of these items is grinding gold and I never really could set myself to do that. I have been ask by friends to come along when they where grinding but 10 min in I was gone. (one exception ever, guess I had a strange day).

So it’s completely possible that some people think GW2 is more grindy and others think another MMO is more grindy. It really depends on what you are most interested in and I acknowledge this fact for much longer as this thread exists.

“I don’t think you could approach this game in an unbiased manner because you’re looking for things to support your dislike of the business model.” Again, it’s just the other way around.

I do wonder, if I was not arguing mainly about only a few issues (The fact that you are now trying to use to discredit my comments you seemingly can’t argue against in another way) but I would complain about a lot, would you then try to discredit my comments by saying I did just argue for the sake of arguing because I complained about so many things and so I could not be unbiased?

Guild Wars has always had grind for cosmetics. It was always supposed to. I don’t see why you can’t recognize that.

Devata.6589:

aerial.7021:

Lheimroo.2947:

Seems to me that WoW got more popular when it dropped grind and eased barriers to entry to raids, and that it got less popular when it added grind and raised barriers to play. Seems to me that that’s the formula for the whole market, in fact.

Close so very close its actually grind vs money, subject player(s) to an increased volume of grind and the player(s) will either choose the grind or pay money to escape said grind (me being one of those people), get the balance just right and you’ll get comments like what we see here, and the actual real story gets forgotten in the fog.

I am pointing to that story for two years. I never forget it in the fog. And if you don’t like it, why support it because by buying your way out of the grind you support the grind. Spend your money on expansions, buy expensive collectors edition if you want to support the game but don’t buy your way out of the grind because that way you only hurt the game.

However I think it’s still great you know this from yourself and are openly telling that here. Other people would try to even fool themselves talking about wanting to support the game and bla bla. Even going as far as there is no grind, the grind they buy themselves out of.

So point for you on that part however I would still suggest working on the first part.

@ Vayne Did you read that?

And this:

NiBlack.3149:

NiBlack.3149:

As person who just began ascended crafting I don’t mind “some” grind. Honestly the only issue with ascended crafting I have with cloth and probably later with leather.

I’m sort in the same boat as you, I will say this if it wasn’t for my (Credit Card) I highly doubt I would have gotten my currently 1 and only 500 ranked crafting to that point, even maxing 7 characters to 80 salvaging everything that lands in my inventory, I’m still left with resorting to my credit card.

?

So maybe it’s not a blind hate, that cash-shop focus dislike of me (as you suggested). Maybe I am not making excuses simply because of my dislike, but what I am saying is simply reality and the dislike is born out of that reality? These people at least seems to proof the grind works for the cash-shop focus. And so is it that hard to think the grind in there because of this reason?

But that would of course made all my statements about this well-founded.

Well-founded or not, it’s an opinion. I have full ascended items on three characters and I’ll never have to grind on those characters again. Not for gear.

More to the point, I have a boatload of other characters who don’t have a single piece of ascended gear…well maybe rings from fractals that I’ve done but that’s it, and none of those characters are excluded from content.

That’s the difference that you refuse to acknowledge.

You have one aspect of the game that you can’t stand and you blame everything else for it, but you don’t acknowledge that others, not just me, find other MMOs more grindy than this one.

You have an opinion and it’s a strong one and everything is jaded based on that opinion. I don’t think you could approach this game in an unbiased manner because you’re looking for things to support your dislike of the business model. That’s the worst kind of science.

yanipheonu.5798:

See, I totally get why there are no level cap increases, and at the end of the day, I appreciate it.

That said, I can’t deny that little sense of satisfaction from another level popping It’d be nice to impliment that somehow. Getting new skill points isn’t quite as thrilling.

Basically mastery points are going to replace that feeling. You’ll be able to unlock mastery points and specialize. You’ll still be progressing, just not in levels.

I imagine over time that might be a better feeling than leveling.

Tom Gore.4035:

Vayne.8563:

Test.8734:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

SO basically what anet wants to do is do free living story all the way up to the climax and then put the end behind a pay wall.

Brilliant.

That’s not really what happened, I think.

The Living Story pretty much failed. ArenaNet focused a lot on the China release but it was worse than expected. The number of players has been falling, they have made changes to their business model (selling Living World chapters) yet profit has not risen; in other words, the future doesn’t look bright for ArenaNet.

They probably decided to make an expansion simply because they have no idea what to do now. This is nearing a desperate move. And it remains to be seen how well planned and how well implemented the promised features for the expansion will be.

Hans Christian Anderson would have rejected this for a fairytale. I’m sure that the expansion was being worked on before Season 2 even launched.

I don’t know how you can think otherwise, since in six weeks they’re going to be doing a live demo of it.

I think he’s implying that the HoT content was originally planned to be released free through Living World updates, and then only subsequently decided to be bunched up and sold as an expansion.

It could be. We don’t really know.

The evidence for this is severely lacking, if that’s what’s being suggested. Anet has always said, well for a long time anyway, that they were working on several big projects in the background but they weren’t sure how they wanted to release them.

More to the point, NcSoft has been saying for years that at some point there would be an expansion….when the time is right.

Clearly they were working on this and clearly at least some people thought it would be an expansion.

They may have well had a faction of people in management who wanted to try something new, but it’s a fact that at conference calls over the last couple of years, NcSoft has mentioned the word expansion more than once.

If he is saying what you say he’s saying (and I see no evidence for it), there’s still nothing to back it up.

Keep in mind, I’ve been saying they’ve been working on these bigger projects for probably about a year now.

I think we need to see more about the expansion before we decide if it’s must buy or not. Obviously it’s must buy for fans of the game already.

I definitely think that making the announcement of no new gear tiers and no raised level cap will resonate with a lot of people. That clarity could mean a lot, and the return to a more horizontal progression will appeal to other people.

I’m most excited for the mastery system, because to me that’s the missing component to make this game great.

I don’t see why not. No one can access the game without an account name and password. The game itself isn’t what you’re paying for, it’s access to Tyria.

The game itself can’t be played without that access.

morrolan.9608:

Obtena.7952:

People aren’t recognizing that this is one reason why GW2 does as well as it does. Relative to other games, it’s grind is very low. Therefore it attracts a good portion of the market.

Its already been said in this thread that WoW has less grind, SWTOR is similar to WOW and has less grind as does ESO. So comparative to others Western MMOs its grind is not low.

But grind for what exactly. If ascended gear is the last tier of armor and weapons, and that’s all that is, then I’m done grinding now. People in those other games will be grinding for gear long after I’m done.

So how can this be more grinding?

sorudo.9054:

Zaklex.6308:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

nGumball.1283:

Please sir, find that game that has no grind and only has content and enjoy it for yourself.

Elder Scrolls
Mass Effect
Fallout
Dragon Age

It’s actually quite easy to make a game with no grind and only content. The thing is, you won’t be able to play it for a loooong time. All of the individual titles in those franchises I played like 100 to 400 hours each. Guild Wars 2 I played 2,500 hours.

And that’s what MMO devs want, to keep you playing. So yea, it is possible, they just won’t do it.

Note, those are all single player games…name an MMO that has no “grind” and I’ll agree you have a point. Otherwise it’s like talking apples and oranges.

P.S. – I put “grind” in quotes because one persons “grind” is another persons “fun”.

play guild wars (not GW2), no grind at all.
it’s all cosmetic and gear is easily maxed out, unlike GW2 where you get spit on the moment you wear rare armor instead of exotic.
GW has white armor as maxed gear, if that was the case in GW2 then you can talk about no grind in GW2, till then grind away.

I grinded just as much in Guild Wars 1 as I did here, to make my skills more powerful. It wasn’t GEAR grind, but it was still grind to become more powerful.

Test.8734:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

SO basically what anet wants to do is do free living story all the way up to the climax and then put the end behind a pay wall.

Brilliant.

That’s not really what happened, I think.

The Living Story pretty much failed. ArenaNet focused a lot on the China release but it was worse than expected. The number of players has been falling, they have made changes to their business model (selling Living World chapters) yet profit has not risen; in other words, the future doesn’t look bright for ArenaNet.

They probably decided to make an expansion simply because they have no idea what to do now. This is nearing a desperate move. And it remains to be seen how well planned and how well implemented the promised features for the expansion will be.

Hans Christian Anderson would have rejected this for a fairytale. I’m sure that the expansion was being worked on before Season 2 even launched.

I don’t know how you can think otherwise, since in six weeks they’re going to be doing a live demo of it.

I’m very happy. I never wanted the level cap. I didn’t want ascended gear either, but if it’s the last tier of gear ever, I can live with it.

Cause there hasn’t been a soul on these forums who ever asked for a paid expansion…oh wait….

Bellizare.5816:

Vayne.8563:

shadow.6174:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

I really wish there was some way to let me be treated as an experienced player though the account itself is new.

THIS is the point. Teaching new players is always good and a needed thing, but with NPE all players are treated equal, not taking in account how smart and/or experienced the players can be.

Vayne.8563:

Some of the NPE does disappear on the second character you level. And leveling through levels 1-15 is much faster than it used to be.

Yes but, from viewpoint of a really new but experienced player… if someone already feel frustrated due being treated like a child just at the first character, do you think they would be patient and persistent at the point of creating a second one just to see if things would change, or would they give it up before that? I believe the last…

Another thing… what’s the point of it being faster? Leveling wasn’t supposed to be an enjoyable experience instead a boring tutorial that you feel wanting to rush in order to finish it asap? Again, that’s it, leveling has became more like a boring chore than a enjoyable playtime.. I never bothered about hitting lvl 30 in the fastest time possible, I liked exploring things and mechanics at my own pace.

However, a thing I tend to agree with…

Vayne.8563:

Calling for people to be fired when you don’t know anything about the internal workings of a company isn’t just irresponsible. It’s unwise.

Mistakes happens at times and firing may not the best solution yes. Sometimes replacing the one or those who did the mistake can cost more than the damage caused by the mistake.

See I just don’t get this comment. I’ve played lots of other MMOs, most recently FFXIV. I’m an experienced player. FFXIV was much much slower in getting abilities than Guild Wars 2 is. An experienced player will fly through the first 15 levels, which are introductory anyway, and have most of the important stuff unlocked.

I’m not even sure why this is a discussion.

Absolutely. I am getting ready to tackle SB for the first time on my $10 account. My only nit to pick so far is that it’s kind of silly to pass a commune with this place for a skill point, and being told I’m not experienced enough to commune lol.

Sure about the skill point but it only happens your first time through. If you make a second character, you can get skill points from level 2.

The only question I have is how this will reach new people, who might not know about that tab, but who might want a guild.

shadow.6174:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

I really wish there was some way to let me be treated as an experienced player though the account itself is new.

THIS is the point. Teaching new players is always good and a needed thing, but with NPE all players are treated equal, not taking in account how smart and/or experienced the players can be.

Vayne.8563:

Some of the NPE does disappear on the second character you level. And leveling through levels 1-15 is much faster than it used to be.

Yes but, from viewpoint of a really new but experienced player… if someone already feel frustrated due being treated like a child just at the first character, do you think they would be patient and persistent at the point of creating a second one just to see if things would change, or would they give it up before that? I believe the last…

Another thing… what’s the point of it being faster? Leveling wasn’t supposed to be an enjoyable experience instead a boring tutorial that you feel wanting to rush in order to finish it asap? Again, that’s it, leveling has became more like a boring chore than a enjoyable playtime.. I never bothered about hitting lvl 30 in the fastest time possible, I liked exploring things and mechanics at my own pace.

However, a thing I tend to agree with…

Vayne.8563:

Calling for people to be fired when you don’t know anything about the internal workings of a company isn’t just irresponsible. It’s unwise.

Mistakes happens at times and firing may not the best solution yes. Sometimes replacing the one or those who did the mistake can cost more than the damage caused by the mistake.

See I just don’t get this comment. I’ve played lots of other MMOs, most recently FFXIV. I’m an experienced player. FFXIV was much much slower in getting abilities than Guild Wars 2 is. An experienced player will fly through the first 15 levels, which are introductory anyway, and have most of the important stuff unlocked.

I’m not even sure why this is a discussion.

Raids in the traditional sense of what people think of raids, probably aren’t coming to Guild Wars 2. That is instanced content for huge numbers of people probably isn’t in the cards…my opinion only.

I think that there will be more raid like content, for guilds in the open world. If you use the word raids and people expect raids, people won’t even give the new content a chance.

tigirius.9014:

Vayne.8563:

tigirius.9014:

Vayne.8563:

To those who claim that grind lowers the population, there’s evidence it works both ways. Not enough grind can lower the population as well.

Anet was losing people who ran out of stuff to work on and too many people have been brainwashed by other games to think that they can just have a skin end game.

That’s the problem Anet ran into when they made the choice to add ascended gear.

You’re making assumption that more people leave because of grind than stay because of it. We simply don’t know that’s true.

Name one game in America or even in the UK where the grind produced millions of players? One. There isn’t one so I know the answer already and trust me I read about every single one of them including indies on multiple news sites. In fact, those with major grinds say for example, Wildstar, have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that western audiences hate grind and that it always lowers the population. The population is directly affected also by how high the RNG is. Archeage anyone? Seriously, there are countless other examples out there.

Farmville. Thanks.

Let me rephrase that since you need clarification we are discussing MMOs and not microtransaction facebook games.

Name on MMO in America or EU that has a high population after adding an endless grind. You won’t find one.

They ALL add endless grind. WoW is faction grind. You can’t deny it’s not there, because it is. Name one MMORPG that’s added no kind of grind.

I’ll wait here.

First of all, server only matters for WvW. Everything else is on a megaserver.

The top three servers in the US for WvW are Blackgate, Jade Quarry and Tarnished Coast.

Bellizare.5816:

Vayne.8563:

Nilkemia.8507:

BlueOcean.5380:

“Ruinous pile” is the best phrase I’ve seen on this forum to describe NPE.

Frankly if I were the CEO at NCsoft I’d be getting on the phone to find the person responsible, and canning the person who pulled this stunt

It reduced an elegant game to a genre dime-a-dozen FTP with childish “reward” window that looks cheap. Instead of coming into a game world of faraway fantasy, I’m bombarded with this psudo reward, feeling it’s like a “candy” treat to get me to even respond. Mmm, my goal in an RPG is to learn, to feel I’m challenged, to step into a world of wander. Not to be handed “candies”. In the starting days of GW2, under ANet’s vision, what I saw was a world of beauty and wonder. Now I feel I’m reading a cheap romance, starting on page one with some “enticement”. If I want dime store stuff, I’ll go to 100 other FTP games online.

On top of it, the rewards are full of items that are not salvageable, so players need to drag to destroy. So you give candy to players, then expect them to labor to get rid of it.

Ok… I’d be calling the QA dept. Shouldn’t the disposal of these items be a bit more interesting than that? Make the game a world people can sink into, not one of pop-ups?

Like, players may get a quest to turn in the reward to an army officer at his racial city and learn more about how his turning in his old sword can help younger recruits.

It was ANet’s goal to make this a world of living, breathing fantasy where people will always feel they are in-character. I see this NPE is full of “let’s get the player excited about pop up reward”, “let’s have them drag it to destroy it for our in-game economy.”

Meanwhile, ANet’s vision is utterly being torn apart.

Sigh. If you hope GW2 will become a unforgetable chapter in MMORPG history, as I felt it could be, then don’t do things like this to tear it down, to bring it down to the level of all the cheap FTP games out there.

I’m pretty furious right now. Yes, if I were the CEO I’d be canning people atm.

Whoever was in charge should’ve been told to go right back to the drawing board or just get fired for sheer stupidity. But of course, someone’s going to whine at me for that sentiment. Anyways, +50 for your post….if I could do that.

Because that wouldn’t cause your gaming company to go out of business. Some people have not a clue how businesses work. Not a clue.

Once, when I was running a fairly large store as part of a chain, a guy made a mistake that cost the company a couple of thousand dollars. It was an honest mistake, but yeah, it cost us. The district manager told me to fire him. A couple of weeks later, the DM sees him working and says to me, I told you to fire that guy. I told him, fire him? I just spent $2000 TRAINING him.

It’s not like he was ever going to make the same mistake again, so firing him would have been counter productive. By keeping the guy, he became not only a loyal employee but one of my key salespeople. That guy ended up being very loyal, because he knew I didn’t fire him when I could have.

Firing people who do something that doesn’t work out, particularly something like this which was undoubtedly the work and decision of more than one person, most of these things are doing collaboratively, means firing more than one person. Who replaces those people? Who trains the people that replaces them? What makes you think the next people can do better? Do you know how long this would set back development?

Calling for people to be fired when you don’t know anything about the internal workings of a company isn’t just irresponsible. It’s unwise.

You must have had a very forgiving DM. Most likely mine would have fired both of you.

You don’t fire your #1 earner, I don’t care how annoyed you are. I made more money for that company than any other manager in the district.

He did try to fire me once. Man, he got in trouble with the office.

BlueOcean.5380:

The reason I’d be firing that individual is A) He(she) has to be in a managerial position to approve this change. Not just a newly trained employee. I have no place in my company for myopic mangers. I don’t want to spend my time looking after their mistakes.

Yes, I think the word myopic applies here. How ironic.

Feirlista Xv.1425:

As far as I could tell from the information given the new area is going to be one large zone with 3 levels, the roots the lowest level, the jungle floor the middle level, and the jungle canopy the upper level. This looks to me that there will be only one map, the largest in the game with these 3 levels. I could be wrong but this is the way I inturprited it from what was said at PAX, so we will have to wait to see.

Anet has confirmed that it’s more than one zone.

Nilkemia.8507:

BlueOcean.5380:

“Ruinous pile” is the best phrase I’ve seen on this forum to describe NPE.

Frankly if I were the CEO at NCsoft I’d be getting on the phone to find the person responsible, and canning the person who pulled this stunt

It reduced an elegant game to a genre dime-a-dozen FTP with childish “reward” window that looks cheap. Instead of coming into a game world of faraway fantasy, I’m bombarded with this psudo reward, feeling it’s like a “candy” treat to get me to even respond. Mmm, my goal in an RPG is to learn, to feel I’m challenged, to step into a world of wander. Not to be handed “candies”. In the starting days of GW2, under ANet’s vision, what I saw was a world of beauty and wonder. Now I feel I’m reading a cheap romance, starting on page one with some “enticement”. If I want dime store stuff, I’ll go to 100 other FTP games online.

On top of it, the rewards are full of items that are not salvageable, so players need to drag to destroy. So you give candy to players, then expect them to labor to get rid of it.

Ok… I’d be calling the QA dept. Shouldn’t the disposal of these items be a bit more interesting than that? Make the game a world people can sink into, not one of pop-ups?

Like, players may get a quest to turn in the reward to an army officer at his racial city and learn more about how his turning in his old sword can help younger recruits.

It was ANet’s goal to make this a world of living, breathing fantasy where people will always feel they are in-character. I see this NPE is full of “let’s get the player excited about pop up reward”, “let’s have them drag it to destroy it for our in-game economy.”

Meanwhile, ANet’s vision is utterly being torn apart.

Sigh. If you hope GW2 will become a unforgetable chapter in MMORPG history, as I felt it could be, then don’t do things like this to tear it down, to bring it down to the level of all the cheap FTP games out there.

I’m pretty furious right now. Yes, if I were the CEO I’d be canning people atm.

Whoever was in charge should’ve been told to go right back to the drawing board or just get fired for sheer stupidity. But of course, someone’s going to whine at me for that sentiment. Anyways, +50 for your post….if I could do that.

Because that wouldn’t cause your gaming company to go out of business. Some people have not a clue how businesses work. Not a clue.

Once, when I was running a fairly large store as part of a chain, a guy made a mistake that cost the company a couple of thousand dollars. It was an honest mistake, but yeah, it cost us. The district manager told me to fire him. A couple of weeks later, the DM sees him working and says to me, I told you to fire that guy. I told him, fire him? I just spent $2000 TRAINING him.

It’s not like he was ever going to make the same mistake again, so firing him would have been counter productive. By keeping the guy, he became not only a loyal employee but one of my key salespeople. That guy ended up being very loyal, because he knew I didn’t fire him when I could have.

Firing people who do something that doesn’t work out, particularly something like this which was undoubtedly the work and decision of more than one person, most of these things are doing collaboratively, means firing more than one person. Who replaces those people? Who trains the people that replaces them? What makes you think the next people can do better? Do you know how long this would set back development?

Calling for people to be fired when you don’t know anything about the internal workings of a company isn’t just irresponsible. It’s unwise.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

We bought a new GW2 account over the last weekend and, holy cow! The NPE is just awful for anyone who already knows how the game is played. All this level gating and hand holding is a huge pain.

I really wish there was some way to let me be treated as an experienced player though the account itself is new.

Some of the NPE does disappear on the second character you level. And leveling through levels 1-15 is much faster than it used to be.

In the future if this happens to you, try guesting then going back on the map. It’s easier that way to get on different overflows.

Beldin.5498:

Lishtenbird.2814:

I am more confused by the Masteries. It totally looks like instead of gear grind, we will get skill grind. But on paper? Yes, “no gear treadmill”.

So i’m not the only one who had that thought o.O

There’s always been skill grind in Guild Wars, starting with Factions at any rate. We had to level up our Kurzick and Luxon skills. Later our Sunspear and Lightbringer Skills. After that it was our norn, deldrimor, ebon vangard and asura skills.

But it’s still completely different from gear grind, not because it’s not grinding or it is grinding. It’s because you don’t end up with stat creep.

I’m sure you’ll have to buy the whole thing, because it’s presented as a package. It’s like when you go to Disneyland. You pay for admission and you ride what you want.

Since you don’t know a thing about guild halls yet, or the way they’re adding them, saying that Guild Wars 1 had them at launch is pretty much pointless. It’s not going to be the same Guild Halls.

I wasn’t into GvG and I never really found a use for Guild Halls in Guild Wars 1 anyway. But without knowing that the new Guild Halls are going to be like, it’s very hard to say compare.

As for race change, unlike most games, there is a personal story in this game that is linked to race. There isn’t going to be a race change for that reason.

atreoo.7829:

I dont really like it as i have not completed the new daily once. On the other hand the old daily i could log in and complete it in 15 minutes and go about my business.

Except that’s how long it takes me to complete the new dailies.

shadow.6174:

Vayne.8563:

The trait changes aren’t being ignored by Anet. They’ll be changed completely with Heart of Thorns.

Hmm, if so the question is: will it be changed within the expansion or will be changed when the expansion comes out? If the first, what about those who won’t get the expansion, will they be left out of the changes? If so it won’t sound fair huh. Sorry if I misunderstood something.

I’m sure it will be changed for everyone. This is the way it was worded. Anet looked for a way forward that meshed with stated ideals and they’ll modify the rest of the game to match those ideals.

Carighan.6758:

Nostromo.4126:

Total garbage for casual PvE players, which I’m tippin a LOT of us are.
For ref, I spent over an hour the other day in the Mists running around like a spazz with the zerg & didn’t get a single daily. And I don’t want to have to do WvW or PvP or world bosses every/any day if I don’t want to, ever, period. That is all ANet.

Then ignore the dailies? They no longer give laurels or coins, you don’t really lose out. If the rewards don’t entice you to do the things you’re not already doing, fine, but then the system simply isn’t targeted at you.

The old dailies were replaced with the log-in rewards: you’re still free to play however you want to.

See that’s the problem. Some people, probably many, who ignore the dailies, log out. Without that old roadmap, they can’t, or haven’t or don’t want to make their own in game goals.

The dailies gave them a list of stuff to do, and that was fine for them. Right now, that list is less convenient. I get that. I really do.

The problem is that I have my own goals that require me to do stuff, so I get the dailies done fast and get on with doing my own goals. But it seems a lot of people play this game without goals. To them, doing the daily was the game.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

To those who claim that grind lowers the population, there’s evidence it works both ways. Not enough grind can lower the population as well.

Anet was losing people who ran out of stuff to work on and too many people have been brainwashed by other games to think that they can just have a skin end game.

That’s the problem Anet ran into when they made the choice to add ascended gear.

You’re making assumption that more people leave because of grind than stay because of it. We simply don’t know that’s true.

“Anet was losing people who ran out of stuff to work on” there is a huge difference between having a boring brainless gold-grind to get everything and things to work to. If I again was to compare that to those other games the hunt for the skins (mini’s, wapons and armor, mounts, toys and other fun items, leveling crafts all about that sort of items) that could keep me busy for a long time, likely up until the next expansion.

now if I compare this to GW2 that while game-play is completely gone because I am not going to do this boring grind. Nonetheless the total amount of time you spend does not have to be so very different. The journey is different. The not so grindy one is better, while it still has parts of farming in it.

“too many people have been brainwashed by other games to think that they can just have a skin end game.” Just have a skin? It was not an endless gold grind as in GW2 (while usually you did have that option as well for many items) but you for sure did not just get it. And why use the term ‘brainwashed’ why then not use the term ‘spoiled’ (with fun way to obtain those skins) but then again, that is not a negative thing so that’s why you use the term ‘brainwashed’?

“You’re making assumption that more people leave because of grind than stay because of it. We simply don’t know that’s true.” That’s true while again common sense is useful here. The again, you made clear you mixed up the terms (boring endless gold) grind with ‘thing to do’. And then yes common sense is on your side. People will likely leave sooner when there is nothing to do then when there is something to do. But again, things to do, does not mean it has to be and endless boring gold grind. While I agree is will likely involve farming as repeating content you can almost not get rid of in a game if you want to keep people busy for a longer time.

One thing I noticed in the guild is that you always have people more interested in specific parts of the game. The longest to stay where the WvW / PvP people. The cosmetics where one of the fastest to leave. Those now left are the ones not really interested in specific things but just like the social interaction. Just in general what I see. I know Vayne, you have a very special guild where everything is different.

Maybe my guild isn’t special. Maybe there are a lot of guilds like mine out there. I seem to run into people from those guilds quite frequently, so it’s likely my guild isn’t the only one.

I see plenty of posts that agree with what I say on these forums and none of them people who post them…well sometimes one of them, is in my guild. The rest of the people posting agreement are in other guilds.

Your attempts to discredit me with those types of generalities are pretty silly. And that’s all they are.

For months and months you’ve been banging on about the one single issue that you’re obsessed about, and everything you say comes back to that single issue. It’s the root of all evil to you.

It doesn’t make any of your arguments stronger.

tigirius.9014:

Vayne.8563:

To those who claim that grind lowers the population, there’s evidence it works both ways. Not enough grind can lower the population as well.

Anet was losing people who ran out of stuff to work on and too many people have been brainwashed by other games to think that they can just have a skin end game.

That’s the problem Anet ran into when they made the choice to add ascended gear.

You’re making assumption that more people leave because of grind than stay because of it. We simply don’t know that’s true.

Name one game in America or even in the UK where the grind produced millions of players? One. There isn’t one so I know the answer already and trust me I read about every single one of them including indies on multiple news sites. In fact, those with major grinds say for example, Wildstar, have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that western audiences hate grind and that it always lowers the population. The population is directly affected also by how high the RNG is. Archeage anyone? Seriously, there are countless other examples out there.

Farmville. Thanks.

HardReign.7142:

If I have to download 20+MB every single time I want to play — I disagree with that development style. So perhaps GW2 isn’t for me, which is a shame.

I travel. I may have a low latency but not always high bandwidth — so it’s become readily apparent GW2 is not for me and I should explore my other options. Thank you for your time.

No MMO is for you then. It’s that simple. Back when I played Rift, I was interrupted several times an evening when new patches game out, sometimes for days at a time. The only MMOs exempt would be MMOs that don’t come out with new content.

Maybe those are more your speed.

Huck.1405:

Vayne.8563:

Huck.1405:

My only reason for being suspicious of this not being sales tax is the variance in percentage. 10% and 5% respectively on my 2 purchases. That’s what raised my eyebrows. Sales tax percentage does not vary with the amount being taxed, it’s the same. And 10% is pretty high for a state sales tax.

So instead of posting on the forums with a half-baked theory and no real evidence, why not just contact support and ask? Seems to me that no one here can give you any real answer.

Because I’m sure that others are wondering the same thing and Anet answering me here will answer for everybody as well.

And in what way is pointing out a major variance in “tax” percentages a “half-baked theory”? That’s not a theory, it’s a hard FACT.

Anet squeezing people by inventing a tax that they’re not paying to the state is certainly a half baked theory. NcSoft is a public company, not some small corner store. I can’t think of a single reason for them in do what you’re saying. Not one.

It’s almost automatically going to come out, it’s going to break several laws and would end up in several lawsuits. There’s no compelling reason for them to do this.

It’s not a fact to me that you were charged two different amounts, to me that’s hearsay.

Huck.1405:

My only reason for being suspicious of this not being sales tax is the variance in percentage. 10% and 5% respectively on my 2 purchases. That’s what raised my eyebrows. Sales tax percentage does not vary with the amount being taxed, it’s the same. And 10% is pretty high for a state sales tax.

So instead of posting on the forums with a half-baked theory and no real evidence, why not just contact support and ask? Seems to me that no one here can give you any real answer.

OP before accusing any online company of wrongdoing check out this article:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/prepare-for-more-taxes-on-apps-e-books-and-movies-2014-03-12

There’s no way in hell Anet would be charging a “sales tax” and not giving the money to the government. I’ve heard a lot of tinfoil hat theories since launch, but that has to be the worst.

Mostly likely state laws have changed and Anet is complying. What state do you live in?

Guilds in Guild Wars 2 are nothing like Guilds in Archeage. You don’t have to get into a guild immediately but it’s more fun for some people to play with other people. I prefer getting into a guild early, it’s just not necessary.

There’s no open world PvP here in PvE, so you don’t need the protect of a guild. Guilds do have guild missions which you can start doing from a pretty low level, at least some of them, and they do offer buffs which the guild can trigger for the guild.

Obviously if you’re into PvP, particularly WvW (which is big scale PvP), a guild wouldn’t hurt.

But you don’t have to rush right out and find one to enjoy the game.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

The manifesto was a statement of intent made long before the game got out. It was a way to give an idea of where they wanted to go.

Yep. They said they didn’t want players to grind, and made it clear they meant grind in a broad meaning. It was something very easily understood, that didn’t really need laywers to define its terms, despite how a very small number of players never understood it and still refuse to understand it even with multiple clarifications from ArenaNet. They have said then, just as they have said now, that “grind” means far more than level grind. Trying to change the subject won’t change this fact.

Some of us looked at the entire paragraph and figured out what it meant from that context. Some of us took a pre-existing definition in our heads and ignored the context.

That’s all it is, and that’s all it will ever be.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

Let me know when you can prove Colin wrote the manifesto, k thanks.

Do you really think the Game Director, who spoke the paragraph we are discussing, didn’t have a say on those lines? K thanks.

You are gasping at straws instead of admiting you were wrong, and have been wrong all this time. ArenaNet’s definition of grind (and do notice it’s not “Colin’s definition”) has always been different from “level grind”. As has always been obvious.

I’m saying that the game designer, who read those lines, probably didn’t nickle and dime every term like the fan base does. What makes you think he went to whoever wrote it and said, exactly what do you mean by grind.

The manifesto was a statement of intent made long before the game got out. It was a way to give an idea of where they wanted to go.

I’m almost positive they didn’t let lawyers parse it and argue it’s relative merits before producing it.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

No, I’m looking at the evidence of the original manifesto. That’s all I’ve done for years. The evidence of the original manifesto and what was said not only in it, but to clarify it in the months immediately after.

…All of which have never even come close to saying that “grind” means only “level grind”. The Manifesto said something different, the clarification released concurrently said differently, and now Colin is saying differently.

For years, you have been wrong. That has easily been proved a few times now.

Let me know when you can prove Colin wrote the manifesto, k thanks.

Yep, normal for new patches, which sometimes have bugs that need fixing. This is true in all MMOs.

To those who claim that grind lowers the population, there’s evidence it works both ways. Not enough grind can lower the population as well.

Anet was losing people who ran out of stuff to work on and too many people have been brainwashed by other games to think that they can just have a skin end game.

That’s the problem Anet ran into when they made the choice to add ascended gear.

You’re making assumption that more people leave because of grind than stay because of it. We simply don’t know that’s true.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

Sorry about I’m a writer and an editor. Colin is responding to an ever-changing industry, to specific complaints. I’m looking at the original manifesto. The words in it, period. Nothing else.

It’s irrelevant what you are (or were). You have are trying to ignore ArenaNet’s clarification, both from right now and from 4 years ago. In both of those times, and in the Manifesto itself, it has been made clear that you are wrong, and that your interpretation is flawed.

Unfortunatelly, the grind is real, and ascended gear is its proof.

No, I’m looking at the evidence of the original manifesto. That’s all I’ve done for years. The evidence of the original manifesto and what was said not only in it, but to clarify it in the months immediately after.

Your definition of grind is definitely real. I only question it’s relevance.

BrettM.9062:

The three GW1 campaigns were each stand-alone games, so each had to come with character slots to be playable if you didn’t have any of the other campaigns. EotN, however, was a true expansion that required the player to have at least one of the campaigns. EotN did not include any character slots, since those were provided by the base game. Personally, I don’t expect HoT to include any slots, though I’m hoping to be pleasantly surprised.

But EotN didn’t include a profession either.

Masteries will NOT only be in the new map. They’re going to be more or less like the bonuses you got in EotN in Guild Wars 1. Some may be limited to specific maps others will be usable everywhere, as per Colin’s Gamebreaker TV interview.

Also, you’ll be able to swap out the specialization just like a skill or trait any time out of combat, so it WILL give you more versatility.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

Anet’s reason for not adding a new race seemed like they were either lazy or did not have the time or money.

A new race = new starter zone + events, new capital city, new racial skill, new Personal Story complete with audio dialog. That’s not everything and even that looks like a lot of work. (The events, new zone, and personal story with voice acting)

Actually Colin said in an interview on Gamebreaker tv that, though they thought they’d add a new race before a new profession at one point, they realized a new race wouldn’t affect gameplay as deeply as a new profession.

I really dislike how people bandy words like lazy around. I think you should look that word up. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

In a recent interview they said they beta will be starting soon after the live demo in March in Europe. So figure end of March, April for the beta.

I’m assuming we’ll have this sooner rather than later.

You know, it was a grind to get all ascended gear on three characters (which I’ve done). It was absolutely a grind. It’s probably much easier to get outfitted in other MMOs with the current max gear.

Of course I’m done grinding now, while the people in those other games will be grinding again in a couple of months. And a couple of months after that. And a couple of months after that. When the expansion comes out, months from now, I’ll still have max gear.

Also the grind is a lot less if you’re not in a rush for stuff. It’s only really grind if you want to have it now. Otherwise, most of the stuff you need comes to you as you play.