Guild Wars 2

I main a mesmer, and I thought the Time Warp skill was too powerful. And you know a skill is too powerful when people insist you take it with you, even if you’d enjoy taking another skill in its place.

I’ve seen time and again people saying that if you’re not using Time Warp, you’re playing the game wrong as a mesmer. That’s a sure sign the skill is OP.

At least some people will be able to run CoF again with a pug now, that weren’t able to before.

There’s more to balancing again than the concern of a couple of individuals. People who complain about changes like this are looking at trees, not the forest. Anet is responsible for the forest.

One last thing. If nerfing a single skill that can only be used once every three minutes is the cause of such rage, it was OP anyway.

Hell is a city on Grand Cayman Island. I don’t think that name deserves a ban either. That said, the word discrimination is being used inappropriately here. Being badly treated doesn’t necessarily equal discrimination.

Lambros Augustus.6594:

Yeah I play the game for fun being quick allows me to live a lot longer. Now a reduction in attack speed just adds to my list of gripes. So far I have been dedicating most of my play time to characters who can move dodge and survive, for PvE and farming this is critical. I don’t mind slightly different rules for PvP. But messing around the wrong way with PvE just makes me angry. Also the respawn rate at your back makes me angry. No one likes an angry person. HULK SMASH!!!

Maybe they can add a trainer to the market so I can play at a regular speed or maybe just introduce an offline mode. Either way these decisions make me want to close the till. Is it just to save money on server loads?

You might be confusing quickness with swiftness. Quickness speeds everything up. There’s no nerf to swiftness.

Grey Warden.2983:

Vayne.8563:

It was so OP. There’s nothing that should take down a boss in ten seconds. It’s bad for the game, not good.

It’s one of the reasons four berserker warriors and one berserker mesmer are the CoF team of choice to run the dungeon. And it excludes so many people who don’t play those professions. It’s borderline exploit.

So yeah, a few people make something so powerful it makes content meaningless and it’s up to the company to fix it.

Nonsense.
Everyone has the same opportunity to use the skill, but because they don’t it should be nerfed. Thanks for telling everyone else how to play their game.

Everyone doesn’t have the same opportunity to use the skill because different professions have different availability of the skill.

As for tellling people how to play the game, I’m not. Anet is responsible for making sure that content remains relevant, no matter what I say. I’m only saying I see why they did it.

Do you think they’ll change stuff just because I asked them to? Of course not. They saw a problem, they corrected it.

When you delete a character, that name remains reserved for you for a period of time. I don’t know how long that period of time is, but I do know it’s at least 24 hours.

Hope this helps.

As a guy who has an 80 engineer, I’m pretty interested to see if a turret build is viable, at least in normal PVe (I’ve mostly given up dungeons on my engie).

All in all, looks pretty good. Of course, until you see stuff, who knows.

And even though I main a mesmer, I’m not sorry they cut quickness down. Timewarp was so OP.

clay.7849:

@Vayne

I agree that there is definitely some synergy, such as combo fields. Although, that synergy is basically the design of the developers. In GW1 you could find synergy that was never intended – although sometimes it did create imbalance.

One of the things that makes GW2 less deep or complex is that very rarely do you need to look beyond your weapon skills and a heal or two to complete 80% of the encounters in this game. So, while there may be more depth that exists than we know, the game was designed so casual friendly that you never really need it to win.

Basically, there is very little need of cooperative team play in GW2, especially compared to GW1.

How is this different than me and my heroes and henchmen soloing just about everything in Guild Wars 1, including hard mode dungeons?

morrolan.9608:

Shonie.5297:

“The goal for this system is to ensure that players always have something to constantly work towards. We want each character to have a unique experience in WvW, so World Ranks and WXP are all character-based values rather than account-based. We believe that in the long run, this will actually help incentivize players to experiment with various different ability builds for each character. It also creates a long term goal for players of multiple characters, as they can strive to rank up multiple characters to help show off their dedication to WvW.”

That’s pretty clear, right from Anet.
I’m not sure what your argument or complaint is, but any rebuttal can be directly pointed at that paragraph.

But the abilities that we’ve seen aren’t going to achieve that. I agree if more active abilities were added that there is an argument for being character based (but I doubt they will do that for balance reasons), although as others have said the rank should always be account based.

Except that they said in a recent question and answer they may consider adding more later on, and if they make it account based they won’t be able to. This leaves the option open for them in expansions.

I’d love to see the option too, I just don’t see anyone talking about it. Maybe the OP should post this in suggestions.

sbr.8170:

I had a mosquito drop a spear gun, that got a pretty good laugh from me and my guild mates.

Maybe the mosquito’s stinger WAS the spear gun. Ever think of that? Huh? Huh? lol

Anchorwind.9016:

runeblade.7514:

This thread gave me cancer.

They strictly advertised this game to have zero trinity and the game is fun without it.

They also advertised this game as “Taking everything we loved about Guild Wars…” | “non-grindy…” | “if you hate MMOs…” | moving away from “oh, I swung my sword again” and more. While some of these are patently false and others are half-truths at best, the number of cancer patients would have significantly increased if “strictly advertised” is the criteria from which cancer was awarded.

Actually a lot of the things you’re saying they advertised the game as are true from my perspective. Guild Wars 1 always had grind and Guild Wars 2 has grind too. But it’s not enforced grind. I’m playing all the content, without grinding by choice. You can grind if you want, you don’t have to if you don’t want.

This is completely different from other MMOs where grinding is what you need to do to experience content.

I think the word you’re looking for OP, is plausibility and I agree, it’s not plausible. A lot of things in these games aren’t realistic, but we can buy into them, such as magic. A corpse fly with armor remnants, not so much.

However, it’s not a far cry to say that you killed a corpse fly, which was on/near a corpse which has armor and that’s what was left. It is after all a corpse fly.

Far more disturbing to me when a deer is walking around with a hammer. lol

Turkman.1089:

Ah, Vayne, you can’t stop discussing, can you I thought you left the fan-forum because there was too much arguing going on and now you’re hitting the official forums? (If you aren’t that Vayne, sorry, but the name and the writing and arguing style are too similar to be a coincidence )

@topic:
I agree that the story in GW2 is somewhat shallow and boring. I don’t feel like the characters the OP pointed out are the problem, though. To me, they are in fact the only ones that have some substance. They have some character.

Most of the other characters I met are all goody-two-shoes. They are, to me, uninteresting.

It’s not only the personal story that is lacking, though; I think the whole world feels a bit empty, because of the way they chose to not have quests, which are normally the way an area’s stories are told.

I don’t say that there is nothing there. There is, in fact, some lore and story to be had by following the DEs and by listening to the NPCs talking. But it happens too scarcely and also too subtle. You can run around the world and slay mobs and never get to know more about the world than the names of the areas, the general dragon and undead infestation.

As a human you’re always fighting centaurs in the beginning. But you don’t get any information on why they are hostile or what their goals are. There’s a multitude of such conflicts and I’ve always wondered why tribe x or race y is hostile towards us. I would’ve wanted to learn about the history and story of these conflicts. Alas, I couldn’t.

Maybe I didn’t look properly and missed these parts, but I just feel like a lot of the world, which is beautifully designed, is just lying there with mobs running to and fro and events popping up and somehow someone forgot to put in all those lines of story that should exlain all these happenings.

Yep, I’m that Vayne. Who were you? lol

I left that forum for a lot of reasons, but the arguing wasn’t really one of them. All my favorite people had left because of the negativity and I was fighting a lone battle. Not because other people didn’t feel the same way…they just didn’t care enough about the forums.

Here at least, I’m not a lone voice of protest. Here I’m among other people who feel the same way.

It’s a big improvement.

It’s one thing to be a fan among other fans. It’s another to be the only guy holding the line.

I still poke my nose into that forum and 99% of the posts now are just guilds recruiting or occasionally people looking for guilds. At least when I was there, there was some chatter.

Larrvin.4627:

The concepts are great. We see that you want to do a good game but to be honest after months of gameplay I did the whole map, tried everything and the only thing wich has the potential of surprizing me is pvp but I’m don’t really like pvp. I dind’t know that this game will be only pvp or constant boring grinding of gear and doing the same instances hundreds of times. It’s boring! It was fun until a level when you feel what your? title sais: “been there done that”

I also miss the social aspects from the game. Exploring and the events was fun at first but at end game it’s totally boring and it’s not even rewarding.

- In PvP you earn titles nobody looking is at and skins wich aren’t cool enough imo.
- In WvW theres constant zerging up and down and like the BORG there’s no individuals just the collective.
- In PvE instances lfg adverts asking for certain gear, classes wich mean the classes are very inbalanced or the dungeons designed? bad.

I take it you’re not in a very good guild. If you were, half your complaints would die away.

WvW for example, can be quite fun with a small group of people who know what they’re doing. Dungeon runs are awesome in a guild where people aren’t excluded because of their profession.

You say you miss the social aspect of the game, while I experience the social aspect of the game daily. Seems that at least some of your problems are self-inflicted.

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

ATMAvatar.5749:

A trinity system doesn’t make for much more exciting combat. It just creates a privileged minority out of tanks and healers. So now, instead of a dungeon group just falling apart because of rampant stupidity and failure, it can also fall apart because of primadonnas rage-quitting when you don’t bend to their will.

Yes, a balanced trinity system does all that crap you mentioned, which is why having friends and a good guild to play with made the experience much more enjoyable.

What you are wrong about is that having a balanced trinity does actually make combat more interesting, complex, strategic and rewarding. We can go on about this for hours, but it is pretty much a fact that cooperative play and meaningful encounters were much better in GW1 due to a balanced trinity than in GW2.

I still say Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity. WoW has a trinity.

The reason Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity is because there’s no aggro mechanic. There’s no taunt mechanic. Sure Guild Wars 1 players called certain people tanks, but tanks weren’t strictly necessary, at least in PVe.

I never used a tank in PVe. Not once. That means that in Guild Wars 1, the trinity didn’t exist. Not as it does in other games.

There is an aggro mechanic and, in effect, a passive taunt in GW2. I was watching a video of a very good dungeon group with 1 guardian, 3 berserker warriors, and a mesmer—the standard group. Through GW2’s aggro mechanic the guardian with his high toughness was boss bait and it was his job to run in, grab aggro, and position the mob for the warrior’s to destroy. There was no keybound taunt available, but the passive one worked just as well.

What you see in organized groups are combat roles forming, regardless of GW2’s lack of a formal trinity. I don’t argue in favor of the traditional trinity, but I do think the lack of meaningful roles in terms of how GW2 was conceived is a problem. Humans organize around roles whether it’s a scavenger hunt or brain surgery. Everyone just going for it doesn’t make for satisfying group activity. That’s why you see a lot of posts on the subject. What we have currently (formally) is not the way humans function best in groups. People are establishing roles, which is natural, but it really needs to be better supported by the game design. Again, I’m not arguing for the trinity, just for a more natural (human) and satisfying conception of combat.

And when we play with my guild, we have roles. The beauty of the trinity (and I’ll never use those words together again) is that it’s pug friendly. You don’t have to play with people to train. Everyone knows their role.

But in a game like Guild Wars 2, we still have roles, but we have to feel them out, by playing with the same people over and over and seeing what works and doesn’t. It’s not just a cut and paste card with an unchanging script I can read before I start. It’s far more emergent. It comes from playing and not researching. It happens gradually, naturally, until you’re a well-oiled machine (to use a cliche).

I don’t think the combat in this game is shallow, but I definitely think it’s hard on pugs to get the practice they need to work together as a team. And maybe that’s why I like this game so much.

You can get a lot better at group combat, but you need a group to do it. The same group helps a ton.

Salt.4621:

Its almost the 27th already here in Australia. I wish the rest of the world weren’t so ridiculously slow all the time.

Didn’t realize you were Aussie, mate. I’m down in Tassie.

I think we should just get the patch earlier than everyone else. lol

Sorin.4310:

I just do not understand these posts.

“We didn’t adequately prepare for this optional content, so the optional content wasn’t fun.” Okay…well..

The only merit in this post is the point about another guild already being on the bounty. That does seem unfair for you have to search again. It should count if your own guild is able to join in.

Except that it can work in your favor too. We were so close to losing a bounty that another guild was on. We followed that guild to the target, got a few hits on it and succeeded.

It doesn’t matter who tags it first, because both guilds can get credit for it. In fact, I’d say the last two missions we did this was a big help.

In one of them, we had three targets, and just as we popped the mission another guild did. We got Bwiki. One of our “spotters was already there”. She helped that group, which was large, and the rest of the guild focused on the other two.

Everyone got rewards and we all suceeded.

When more guilds realize that they can help each other do this, its’ going to be much more fun.

Closer to an exploit than a hack then. It should be fixed.

No one knows. I haven’t seen them say anything about it, though.

I’m going to go for one for each character. That should keep me busy for a day or two. lol

Katie Feathermoore.5031:

Jski.6180:

No Walking.6349:

Look at all the dungeons, it’s dodging and damaging. Look at all the world bosses, dodging and damaging. Look at all the guild bounties, just damaging.

I mean, it sounds good on paper not having a trinity, but in the real game it just makes it to where all the boss fights are just an easy DPS race. No technique, planning, or skill is required by the groups at all.

Guild missions are supposed to be guild endgame PvE now right? Well then why does it all consist of just finding a mob on a set path, then AFK auto-attacking hum for 5 minutes? This isn’t right at all. Greatly looking forward to having both WvW and the trinity in TES:O.

Its sounds like YOU need the trinity not the game because you are unable to recognized the skill that put into play of avoiding the dmg and being able to put out dmg with out taking dmg in return. If any thing the trinity lets dmg dealer tanks and support play with a great deal less skill because some one is covering part of your job as a player.

And that’s what was so awesome. You covered for other people. Sometime’s you KNEW you were going to die. But then, clutch heal at 5 hp! And you were saved. Or I knew I was screwed as a monk, because I had no energy and I’m watching someone cast Obsidian Flame. Ranger interrupt ftw.

In GW2 when I know I’m going to die, I do. It’s my fault sure, I missed a dodge. But there’s not that much anyone else can do to save me. They will res me sure, but I’m 90% of my own responsibility for staying alive. I feel much less of a team dynamic with dungeon PUGs in GW2 than in GW1.

I don’t know. We save each other all the time in Guild Wars 2. Party member goes down. I’m too far to rez, but I cast an AOE condition remval down on their body so when someone does rez them, they get several seconds of reprieve from the burning a boss puts on them.

Sometimes a number of people go down and you have to kite the boss while rezzing. It can be challenging. Some times you come back from the dead, just at the edge of a party wipe and you finish the boss.

I get much the same feeling from playing PVe Guild wars 2 as PvE Guild Wars 1. Though admittedly I almost never pug.

Here’s another opinion of Guild Wars 1’s combat. It just occurred to me.

With the exception of very very few end game instances, I could completely any hard mode dungeon in the game with any character and a team of heroes and henchmen that I already had set up.

So with my minion master, a couple of spirit spammers, a mesmer, and an interupt ranger, it didn’t even matter what character I took.

I could take any character and do anything or nothing, because the heroes were so powerful.

Now, you could say the strategy of setting up those heroes (and choosing the right henchmen to compliment them) was a skill. Except that anyone could look up team builds on PVX-Wiki. There would be no skill involved at all.

I could walk through any dungeon just auto attacking and beat pretty much anything using heroes and henchmen. There were exceptions, obviously, like elite areas where you couldn’t take henchmen, but they were the exceptions.

Just like there are exceptions in Guild Wars 2. You have to be pretty good to do the higher level fractals, or Arah or even some paths of CoE.

Drew.1865:

Roll a warrior, only use berserker’s gear and have fun.

I have a berserker warrior and I don’t find it fun. What am I doing wrong? lol

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

ATMAvatar.5749:

A trinity system doesn’t make for much more exciting combat. It just creates a privileged minority out of tanks and healers. So now, instead of a dungeon group just falling apart because of rampant stupidity and failure, it can also fall apart because of primadonnas rage-quitting when you don’t bend to their will.

Yes, a balanced trinity system does all that crap you mentioned, which is why having friends and a good guild to play with made the experience much more enjoyable.

What you are wrong about is that having a balanced trinity does actually make combat more interesting, complex, strategic and rewarding. We can go on about this for hours, but it is pretty much a fact that cooperative play and meaningful encounters were much better in GW1 due to a balanced trinity than in GW2.

I still say Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity. WoW has a trinity.

The reason Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity is because there’s no aggro mechanic. There’s no taunt mechanic. Sure Guild Wars 1 players called certain people tanks, but tanks weren’t strictly necessary, at least in PVe.

I never used a tank in PVe. Not once. That means that in Guild Wars 1, the trinity didn’t exist. Not as it does in other games.

Based on your definition I agree 100%. I also never did the whole tank thing in GW1.

My opinion of the trinity in GW1 would look more like a balance between damage, healing/prot and utility. Or, frontline, midline and backline.

Have you played many other MMOs. If you did, you’d know why I hate the trinity. It’s very constricting. Not just on the player’s side, but on the development side as well.

I played Rift for a while and I have to tell you, I learned to hate the trinity as it exists in most MMOs.

Which doesn’t mean Guild Wars 2’s combat couldn’t be improved. But I think there is a lot to the combat that only really comes into play in a couple of hard encounters.

Yeah, here is the rub, I haven’t played any other MMO’s. I have tried them and quit after a week or two.

Guild Wars 1 was it for me, so my views on the genre are a bit warped. I played a few FPS games I liked and I am a big fan of the Elder Scroll games.

I really like the action oriented style of GW2, I just think the synergy in teams from GW1 is missing.

A lot of the synergy is optional, or hidden. They made a game people could zerg, but if you play with the same people day in and day out Guild Wars 2 has a lot of ways you can syngerize. It’s just knowing those ways, or learning them. Many are not immediately apparent.

One encounter I like to talk about is the Flame Elemental in the fractals, at the end of the grawl path. A lot of people have trouble with that battle. Particularly at one point, when the elemental gets a fire shield around it and summons lava elementals. That’s when a lot of groups wipe.

When I’m there on my mesmer, using the fourth greatsword skill, in combination with timewarp takes that shield down in seconds.

Actually as a mesmer, I don’t really do enough damage. I’m far more based in support. I do depend on other people to damage creatures while I support the party with boons and hurt the enemy with conditions. It’s sort of the role I made for myself. But I’m always helping the party.

A lot of the fields I lay down I do for the party to combo off of, and I usually say when the field is going down on mumble, so people can capitilize off it.

In fact, this game is usually hard on pugs, but great if you’re playing with a team of the same people day in and day out. There are so many things you can bring. One of our normal team includes a ranger in it. While the ranger is often considered to be of questionable use in a dungeon, we find that the search and rescue pet thing can be very handy and has occassionally gotten us out of trouble.

As a guild we talk about what we’re bringing so we don’t always double up on things, and we have a variety of skills represented. Some people are better at some jobs than others.

But the roles are less defined by the game and more defined by our skills as players and our play styles.

Those who think this game is becoming WoW should be forced to play WoW for a few months. They would see just how wrong they are.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne, you can argue all you want, but you would be wrong. This isn’t up for interpretation. You are just blinded by your fanboy-ism to how bad this story really is and that most books, including LOTR, have one hero.

Actually, I’ve studied this sort of thing for a long time. Certainly you saying I’m wrong doesn’t convince me that I’m wrong.

You see there are different ways to write books. There are characters that are heroes in books and they have sidekicks, as with Frodo and Sam. But in many treatises on Lord of the Rings, Aragorn is pointed to as the hero, rather than Frodo. He’s the one to front the path of the dead he’s the one to help win the battle of Gondor, he’s the one who the last book is named for “The Return of the King”.

I’m sure you’re very educated in your chosen field, but now you’re encroaching on my chosen field of study. You can say I’m wrong from today till doomsday but it doesn’t change the fact that there are many works of literature with multiple heroes, including most romances. I chose Lord of the Rings as an example because I figured most people would be familiar with it.

Who was the hero of the Illiad? Is that a better question for you? Who’s the hero of X-men for that matter?

Heroic fiction is one type of fantasy fiction. There’s also high fantasy of which heroic fiction is a subset. In a typical work of fiction, there is usually one protagonist but this isn’t always the case, or even often the case.

Try reading Lucifer’s Hammer and tell me there who the hero is.

Honestly arguing in the absence of fact is silly. But claiming I’m wrong because you say so isn’t much of an argument.

Lol, actually I was thinking of X-men as I wrote this as a clear example where everyone is a “hero”. But, you saying that you have a background in this sort of thing still doesn’t really further your argument any more than I did when I said that there is not up to interpretation. Oh, and I know it’s not that impressive, but I do have a minor in literature, so you know…

I suppose there is a strong secondary plot to LoTR where Aaragorn is rightfully returned to his seat as king, so I do realize my statements are a bit rash. That is the beauty of the interwebz though.

Anyways, we are still talking about 2-3 heroes, not lots and lots.

I realize we are not going to get along as I am a GW1 fanboy and you are a GW2 fanboy, but I promise to keep our conversations more civil and less sarcastic moving forward if you can keep it civil as well?

Actually I loved Guild Wars 1. I just love Guild Wars 2 also.

As for my area of expertise, yeah, it sorta does mean something. If you study a subject and you’re not talking off the top of your head, you have a head start of someone who hasn’t studied the subject.

There are many pieces written about how Aragorn is actually the true hero of Lord of the Rings. A casual read may not show it. But those treatises exist (and if you study that stuff, you’d know about it).

Basically, you have the habit of saying “you’re wrong” to me. But in fact, I’m not wrong. I’m either speaking from opinion, which has no right or wrong, or I’m speaking from experience and study which does give me some small amount of information that you might not be privy too.

I’m happy to call a truce as well. I don’t have anything against you. I just have a different opinion.

Ok then, truce

I do actually enjoy GW2, but I really did expect more from ANet and I feel it has lost some things that GW1 did really well.

Guild Wars 1 evolved a lot. It was different in Prophecies six months after launch than it was when Factions and Nightfall launched.

A lot of people loved Prophecies, but a lot also thought it was way too slow. That’s why Factions was so fast. It was overcompensation on Anet’s part. Nightfall swung like a pendulum back to the middle.

You really can’t judge Guild Wars 2 compared to Guild Wars 1, until it’s out for a couple of years and has the same number of expansions.

But yeah, I’ve been a Guild Wars 1 fan boi for many, many years. 50/50 in the HoM and GWAMM and everything. No such much in PvP though.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

ATMAvatar.5749:

A trinity system doesn’t make for much more exciting combat. It just creates a privileged minority out of tanks and healers. So now, instead of a dungeon group just falling apart because of rampant stupidity and failure, it can also fall apart because of primadonnas rage-quitting when you don’t bend to their will.

Yes, a balanced trinity system does all that crap you mentioned, which is why having friends and a good guild to play with made the experience much more enjoyable.

What you are wrong about is that having a balanced trinity does actually make combat more interesting, complex, strategic and rewarding. We can go on about this for hours, but it is pretty much a fact that cooperative play and meaningful encounters were much better in GW1 due to a balanced trinity than in GW2.

I still say Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity. WoW has a trinity.

The reason Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity is because there’s no aggro mechanic. There’s no taunt mechanic. Sure Guild Wars 1 players called certain people tanks, but tanks weren’t strictly necessary, at least in PVe.

I never used a tank in PVe. Not once. That means that in Guild Wars 1, the trinity didn’t exist. Not as it does in other games.

Based on your definition I agree 100%. I also never did the whole tank thing in GW1.

My opinion of the trinity in GW1 would look more like a balance between damage, healing/prot and utility. Or, frontline, midline and backline.

Have you played many other MMOs. If you did, you’d know why I hate the trinity. It’s very constricting. Not just on the player’s side, but on the development side as well.

I played Rift for a while and I have to tell you, I learned to hate the trinity as it exists in most MMOs.

Which doesn’t mean Guild Wars 2’s combat couldn’t be improved. But I think there is a lot to the combat that only really comes into play in a couple of hard encounters.

clay.7849:

ATMAvatar.5749:

A trinity system doesn’t make for much more exciting combat. It just creates a privileged minority out of tanks and healers. So now, instead of a dungeon group just falling apart because of rampant stupidity and failure, it can also fall apart because of primadonnas rage-quitting when you don’t bend to their will.

Yes, a balanced trinity system does all that crap you mentioned, which is why having friends and a good guild to play with made the experience much more enjoyable.

What you are wrong about is that having a balanced trinity does actually make combat more interesting, complex, strategic and rewarding. We can go on about this for hours, but it is pretty much a fact that cooperative play and meaningful encounters were much better in GW1 due to a balanced trinity than in GW2.

I still say Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity. WoW has a trinity.

The reason Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trinity is because there’s no aggro mechanic. There’s no taunt mechanic. Sure Guild Wars 1 players called certain people tanks, but tanks weren’t strictly necessary, at least in PVe.

I never used a tank in PVe. Not once. That means that in Guild Wars 1, the trinity didn’t exist. Not as it does in other games.

killcannon.2576:

Also, not saying that Guild Wars 2 isn’t a great game, or hasn’t sold well. But in the end, the numbers don’t matter, the community does.

It’s easy to sell games out of the gate, because the hype is still strong. It will be interested to see, moving forward, how the game sells, particularly when the first expansion comes out.

Until then, we really don’t have much to go on.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne, you can argue all you want, but you would be wrong. This isn’t up for interpretation. You are just blinded by your fanboy-ism to how bad this story really is and that most books, including LOTR, have one hero.

Actually, I’ve studied this sort of thing for a long time. Certainly you saying I’m wrong doesn’t convince me that I’m wrong.

You see there are different ways to write books. There are characters that are heroes in books and they have sidekicks, as with Frodo and Sam. But in many treatises on Lord of the Rings, Aragorn is pointed to as the hero, rather than Frodo. He’s the one to front the path of the dead he’s the one to help win the battle of Gondor, he’s the one who the last book is named for “The Return of the King”.

I’m sure you’re very educated in your chosen field, but now you’re encroaching on my chosen field of study. You can say I’m wrong from today till doomsday but it doesn’t change the fact that there are many works of literature with multiple heroes, including most romances. I chose Lord of the Rings as an example because I figured most people would be familiar with it.

Who was the hero of the Illiad? Is that a better question for you? Who’s the hero of X-men for that matter?

Heroic fiction is one type of fantasy fiction. There’s also high fantasy of which heroic fiction is a subset. In a typical work of fiction, there is usually one protagonist but this isn’t always the case, or even often the case.

Try reading Lucifer’s Hammer and tell me there who the hero is.

Honestly arguing in the absence of fact is silly. But claiming I’m wrong because you say so isn’t much of an argument.

Lol, actually I was thinking of X-men as I wrote this as a clear example where everyone is a “hero”. But, you saying that you have a background in this sort of thing still doesn’t really further your argument any more than I did when I said that there is not up to interpretation. Oh, and I know it’s not that impressive, but I do have a minor in literature, so you know…

I suppose there is a strong secondary plot to LoTR where Aaragorn is rightfully returned to his seat as king, so I do realize my statements are a bit rash. That is the beauty of the interwebz though.

Anyways, we are still talking about 2-3 heroes, not lots and lots.

I realize we are not going to get along as I am a GW1 fanboy and you are a GW2 fanboy, but I promise to keep our conversations more civil and less sarcastic moving forward if you can keep it civil as well?

Actually I loved Guild Wars 1. I just love Guild Wars 2 also.

As for my area of expertise, yeah, it sorta does mean something. If you study a subject and you’re not talking off the top of your head, you have a head start of someone who hasn’t studied the subject.

There are many pieces written about how Aragorn is actually the true hero of Lord of the Rings. A casual read may not show it. But those treatises exist (and if you study that stuff, you’d know about it).

Basically, you have the habit of saying “you’re wrong” to me. But in fact, I’m not wrong. I’m either speaking from opinion, which has no right or wrong, or I’m speaking from experience and study which does give me some small amount of information that you might not be privy too.

I’m happy to call a truce as well. I don’t have anything against you. I just have a different opinion.

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

killcannon.2576:

The three million number sold to make this or swtor the fastest selling mmo of all time title is a little misleading. If you google a bit you can find info on various WoW add ons that sold 3 million in a single day. Given, the expansions were not the original, but if you are just throwing numbers and making erroneous statements it would pay to do some research. The sales for GW2 are never the less impressive and I hope it continues to do well.

Good stuff. Cheers!

Sure but those are expansions. We didn’t say the fast expansion. A WoW expansion is bulding on an already existing game. You can’t say WoW came out, and then sold the expansion faster than a new release. What you could do is when Guild Wars 2 comes out with an expansion, compare that to a WoW expansion…but a WoW expansion is still WoW and WoW sold a certain amount of copies in the first four to five months after launch.

Guild Wars 2 sold more in the same time period.

As I stated, it was an expansion. But does it matter? What do you want the numbers to mean to you? It can be interpreted in any way you see fit, for example did those 3 million copies sold of the expansion include new players? Players returning? Data is open to interpretation in many ways, and PR always spins it favorably for their company. And in the end it doesn’t matter. Enjoy the game, play the game, help others to enjoy the game by word of mouth and by being social in the world.

The numbers don’t really matter.

Of course it matters. A new MMO out of the box should be compared with a new MMO out of the box. It shouldn’t be compared with expansion sales, because that’s a whole different ball game.

In any event, it’s very hard to compare a free to play MMO with a pay to play MMO with a buy to play MMO.

But out of gate, Guild Wars 2 is the fastest selling new MMO. You can compare expansions if you want, but it’s not the same thing.

In fact, considering the advertising budget Blizzard has, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if they sold more copies of expansions. And I’m really surprised that Guild Wars 2 has outsold WoW after it’s launch (except that more people probably play computer games now than then).

But you know,. a fact is a fact. You can say it’s not by trying to change the comparison, but it doesn’t change the fact that out of the gate, Guild Wars 2 outsold WoW in an equal period of time.

But it doesn’t matter. Guild Wars 2 will never have the sales WoW had long term. It’ll never happen. For one thing, you have to be in the right place at the right time to do that. WoW didn’t have a ton of competition. There were no free to play MMO’s competing with it. They didn’t even have something like WoW to compete with at the time.

And Guild Wars 2 STILL sold faster.

lothefallen.7081:

Vayne.8563:

lothefallen.7081:

The game would have been so much better if designed around a trinity system. Encounters wouldn’t be braindead, open world wouldn’t be like a boring, repetitive themepark, sPvP wouldnt be dead and the skill system wouldn’t be vapid. This game needs a combat, skills, and traits system revamp A.S.A.P. Fights like Jormag and such require no strategy, team synergy, or deep understanding of player skill and the lack of roles and content designed to supplement that is why. You will never see anything more than these brain-dead spam auto-attack fights. They designed the game like this to cater to where the money is at, casual players that dont like complexity, dont like cooperating with other people, etc. It’s basically all just a backdrop to the cash shop.

Yep the dragon fights are pretty crappy. I can agree with that. But I don’t think adding a trinity would make open world encounters any better. I mean Rift has a trinity and open world encouters there are about the same as they are here. At least they were when I left.

As for dungeons, that’s a whole different matter. There are good bosses and bad bosses. The good ones require a team somewhat knowing what they’re doing and the bad ones don’t.

But I think adding at trinity would kill this game for a lot of people.

I’m actually not in favor of adding trinity…the game at this point would not support it. I’m just saying, in my opinion, the game could have been so much better if they didnt just throw everything fun about GW1 into the garbage so they could market to a bigger crowd.

Guild Wars 1 didn’t really have a trinity though…at least not in PVe. I mean I never ever played any content in Guild Wars 1 with a tank. Healing yes..tank no.

I had a lot of damage mitigation and some healing, but no real tank. So not quite a trinity.

clay.7849:

killcannon.2576:

The three million number sold to make this or swtor the fastest selling mmo of all time title is a little misleading. If you google a bit you can find info on various WoW add ons that sold 3 million in a single day. Given, the expansions were not the original, but if you are just throwing numbers and making erroneous statements it would pay to do some research. The sales for GW2 are never the less impressive and I hope it continues to do well.

Good stuff. Cheers!

Sure but those are expansions. We didn’t say the fast expansion. A WoW expansion is bulding on an already existing game. You can’t say WoW came out, and then sold the expansion faster than a new release. What you could do is when Guild Wars 2 comes out with an expansion, compare that to a WoW expansion…but a WoW expansion is still WoW and WoW sold a certain amount of copies in the first four to five months after launch.

Guild Wars 2 sold more in the same time period.

lothefallen.7081:

The game would have been so much better if designed around a trinity system. Encounters wouldn’t be braindead, open world wouldn’t be like a boring, repetitive themepark, sPvP wouldnt be dead and the skill system wouldn’t be vapid. This game needs a combat, skills, and traits system revamp A.S.A.P. Fights like Jormag and such require no strategy, team synergy, or deep understanding of player skill and the lack of roles and content designed to supplement that is why. You will never see anything more than these brain-dead spam auto-attack fights. They designed the game like this to cater to where the money is at, casual players that dont like complexity, dont like cooperating with other people, etc. It’s basically all just a backdrop to the cash shop.

Yep the dragon fights are pretty crappy. I can agree with that. But I don’t think adding a trinity would make open world encounters any better. I mean Rift has a trinity and open world encouters there are about the same as they are here. At least they were when I left.

As for dungeons, that’s a whole different matter. There are good bosses and bad bosses. The good ones require a team somewhat knowing what they’re doing and the bad ones don’t.

But I think adding at trinity would kill this game for a lot of people.

Find a decent guild and join it. Talk to people about the game while playing. That’s the best advice I can give you. Joining a guild is a much better way to get information than something like the forums. That’s because guilds tend to have a uniform playstyle and so what you hear from them should match what you need to know…at least if you join the right guild for you.

Anyway the game is more fun to play with others.

Flamenco.3894:

Yes, the manifesto worked indeed.

Do you really think most people who bought the game bought it on the strength of the manifesto? Really? lmao

You’re a bit fixated on that manifesto. Strangely I saw the manifesto, bought the game at least partly on it and I’m not disappointed at all.

To each his own.

No Walking.6349:

Kaeden.6952:

There is a trinity,

It’s called:

Damage
Control
Support

ROFL, oh ok. So that must be why I can AFK any boss in the game outside of fractal lvl 30+ This includes all the world bosses and guild bounties.

No, we need a trinity.

You need a trinity. That’s pretty much the one thing they could add to this game that would cause me to leave (and I don’t believe I’m alone).

The trinity is a place where bad players can DPS there heads off, because two talented guys are keeping them safe. No thanks. It’s a horrid design. I’m surprised it’s lasted as long as it has.

I’m sorta glad that TESO will have a trinity. It’s one more game I can avoid investing time and energy into.

clay.7849:

Vayne, you can argue all you want, but you would be wrong. This isn’t up for interpretation. You are just blinded by your fanboy-ism to how bad this story really is and that most books, including LOTR, have one hero.

Actually, I’ve studied this sort of thing for a long time. Certainly you saying I’m wrong doesn’t convince me that I’m wrong.

You see there are different ways to write books. There are characters that are heroes in books and they have sidekicks, as with Frodo and Sam. But in many treatises on Lord of the Rings, Aragorn is pointed to as the hero, rather than Frodo. He’s the one to front the path of the dead he’s the one to help win the battle of Gondor, he’s the one who the last book is named for “The Return of the King”.

I’m sure you’re very educated in your chosen field, but now you’re encroaching on my chosen field of study. You can say I’m wrong from today till doomsday but it doesn’t change the fact that there are many works of literature with multiple heroes, including most romances. I chose Lord of the Rings as an example because I figured most people would be familiar with it.

Who was the hero of the Illiad? Is that a better question for you? Who’s the hero of X-men for that matter?

Heroic fiction is one type of fantasy fiction. There’s also high fantasy of which heroic fiction is a subset. In a typical work of fiction, there is usually one protagonist but this isn’t always the case, or even often the case.

Try reading Lucifer’s Hammer and tell me there who the hero is.

Honestly arguing in the absence of fact is silly. But claiming I’m wrong because you say so isn’t much of an argument.

I don’t think Guild Wars 2 is the best game ever. It’s my favorite MMO, though. It avoids some of the pitfalls of pay to play MMOs, while at the same time avoiding some of the pitfalls of F2P MMOs. I hope more MMOs in the future use the buy to play model.

Guild Wars 2 has done a lot of things right but there’s also a lot of room for improvement. And I think the game, over time, will improve.

But from my point of view, it’s definitely a cut above other MMOs.

clay.7849:

And yet, the hero of the story is Frodo. The others are great characters that help him, but only Frodo can bear the weight of the ring. Without him all else fails. Without others, he still perseveres. In fact, the only other character that might be integral to destroying the ring is gollum, who we would hardly call a hero.

I’m sorry, I know what you are saying, but Frodo is the only true hero of the story. The others are notable allies. In GW2 you are barely even a notable ally and you certainly aren’t the hero.

You read the books, or you watched the movie.

Frodo is one of the heroes. But without what Aragorn does, without the distraction at the gates that Aragorn and the other’s make, Frodo COULD NOT have completed his task.

And even Sam saves Frodo in the book. Using the elfen flame he got from Galadrial. Without Sam, Frodo wouldn’t have made it at all.

You see, Sam was a hero too. Aragorn was a hero. Frodo’s entire quest was dependent upon their actions.

And yeah, you don’t really get that as much from the movies.

Actually Guild Wars 2 is the fastest selling MMO of all time. That it to say it sold 3 million copies faster than any MMO in history including WoW. And that IS a matter of record.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Games like Skyrim turn me off, because you can be the leader of every single order on a single character. Sure, I’m the head of the mage’s guild, the thieve’s guild, the assassin’s guild and the companions. Much harder to believe than that I’m part of something else and spear-heading a charge against an elder dragon.

The whole you’re the chosen one thing is so trite and cliche. You’re the dragon born. Yeah, okay. I can buy into that.

Why can’t you be a hero and still be surrounded by other heroes? Why is it that being heroic means you’re the only one?

It seems a very narrow way to define heroism to me.

I mean Trahearne healed Orr which I wasn’t qualified to do. He wasn’t there when we assaulted Arah though.

Because if everyone is a hero, then nobody is a hero.

Also, the idea of the singular hero has been an age old part of fiction that just works.

Write a book where everyone is the hero and see how well it turns out.

EDIT:

Here is the definition of the word hero from Merriam Webster for our editor:

1a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability
b : an illustrious warrior
c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities
d : one who shows great courage

2a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work
b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement

As you can see, the majority of the definitions, especially as they relate to literary work, refer to a singular hero. Not plural.

Lord of the Rings. Everyone was a hero. Gandalf, Aragorn, Frodo, even Sam. You can be part of a group of heroes who saves the world and it’s no less intense or wonderful than if you do it on your own.

Are you suggesting Aragorn was less of a hero than Frodo?

There’s tons of fantasy, good fantasy, where there is more than one hero. And there’s tons of good fantasy where the main hero is dependent upon other heroes.

Games like Skyrim turn me off, because you can be the leader of every single order on a single character. Sure, I’m the head of the mage’s guild, the thieve’s guild, the assassin’s guild and the companions. Much harder to believe than that I’m part of something else and spear-heading a charge against an elder dragon.

The whole you’re the chosen one thing is so trite and cliche. You’re the dragon born. Yeah, okay. I can buy into that.

Why can’t you be a hero and still be surrounded by other heroes? Why is it that being heroic means you’re the only one?

It seems a very narrow way to define heroism to me.

I mean Trahearne healed Orr which I wasn’t qualified to do. He wasn’t there when we assaulted Arah though.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Disneyworld is a themepark, Six Flags is a theme park. There’s a world of difference between them.

Just the idea that I can’t stand most MMOs, including WoW, but I enjoy Guild Wars 2 should prove they’re not the same. If you can’t see the difference, shrugs. No big deal.

As for English, I spent many years editing for a living. Has nothing to do with casual forum posting.

Again, have a nice life.

So you understand that what you wrote was ambiguous enough to merit that it could have been interpreted wrong?

Furthermore, I am happy to see that because you like GW2 and don’t like WoW we can all place them in separate and district categories and proclaim GW2 to be the most unique MMO ever made and not any way shape or form like WoW.

Seriously, were you an editor for your middle school newspaper because your logic continues to astound me. I never knew that your opinion was the only one that mattered and was the end to all arguments. Simply amazing!

You really think you look good,. saying stuff like this. I’m saying that if something was ambiguous, you might ask for clarification instead of jumping to conclusions, particularly before you started calling names. As I said, other people understood. This brings your comprehension far more into question than my ability to express myself.

They’re not in different categories. Just like all action movies aren’t in different categories but some are more succesful than others. Painting a game with a broad stroke genre, and saying that its’ the same as another game in the same broad stroke genre shows a lack of understanding about games.

I’ll go further. Guild Wars 2 isn’t just a theme park MMO, and a fantasy-genre theme park MMO.

And it’s still completely different from WoW and different people will enjoy and play it.

And yes, I’m still not going to start calling you names. That’s your game, not mine.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Guild Wars II has been out for six months. The devs are still learning how to optimize the gameplay experience for most people.

Some games have been out for many years, and have had a lot of changes that made the gameplay experience worse, but over time those changes were reverted, even improved in some cases. GWII is no different. The devs will learn more and more about what works for the game and what doesn’t work for the game. You just need to give them time.

Why does anyone NEED to give the devs time to polish an unpolished game?

What happened to the YEARS of experience they had with GW1, which did break the mold, that they threw out the window?

I honestly don’t see this game surviving past the next couple of good MMO releases.

Well that’s a relief to me, because I’ve yet to see a good MMO release. Have fun waiting for one.

I saw one, it was called Guild Wars 1. But, I guess that wasn’t a real MMO. You’re right though, I haven’t seen a good MMO release, including this one. I guess GW2 will end up like all the rest.

You weren’t seriously hoping that GW2 is gonna survive by some miracle where other MMO’s couldn’t right?

Guild Wars 2 will not only survive, it will thrive. Maybe without you and players like you, but there are still plenty of players like me and the people I play with. Lots and lots of people don’t like this game. Lots and lots of people do like this game. You can say the same about WoW, which is undoubtedly successful. Lots of people hate Wow, but it’s irrelevant, because lots of people play it. The same is true of Guild Wars 2.

And it doesn’t need ten million people to be successful. So this game won’t go the way most games have gone. Rift is still around and doing fine.

The problems that many games have had on launch, for the most part, aren’t part of Guild Wars 2’s problems. Two years from now, you’ll still be saying this game won’t survive, but it will probably have a higher population than it does now.

Wow, your points are brilliant and moving. With such a strong argument, who can deny that you are correct? The one that got me the most was when you said you and your friends will keep playing it for a long time. That was when I knew I lost the argument.

One a less sarcastic note, you’ve never been a good history student eh?

Sarcasm doesn’t win arguments. It shows that the perpetrator of sarcasm has run out of legitimate points.

You say you guess Guild Wars 2 will end up like all the rest. It’s a bad guess. You have nothing to base it on but your theory that other people want what you want. And some do. And some don’t. So the question becomes, are there enough players like me to support this game and make it successful. I suspect that there is.

I don’t really have to be eloquent. Time will tell. In two years time, come around and see if Guild Wars 2 is dead.

There is no way to win this argument until we see what happens. Although, history and logic is on my side.

I was just lolling at your logic that because you and your friends like the game, it won’t die. You do know that there are a lot of dead games people are still playing right?

You have no logic on your side, and no history either. That’s because just about every single game that’s come down the pike as an MMO after WoW has been more or less a WoW clone. Guild Wars 2 isn’t. So history is irrelevant.

Um WoW = themepark MMO.

GW2 = themepark MMO.

The reason people call things WoW clones are because they compare to WoW as a themepark MMO game. GW2 sits in that same category and as such can be called a WoW clone.

I’m glad you found one example out of hundreds that stuck around and used that for your argument. Clearly, one example out of hundreds should be considered the rule and not the exception. You aren’t by chance high right now are you? That could account for your logic sensors not working correctly.

Disneyworld is a themepark, Six Flags is a theme park. There’s a world of difference between them.

Just the idea that I can’t stand most MMOs, including WoW, but I enjoy Guild Wars 2 should prove they’re not the same. If you can’t see the difference, shrugs. No big deal.

As for English, I spent many years editing for a living. Has nothing to do with casual forum posting.

Again, have a nice life.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Hawkian.6580:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

I quit months ago do to DR’s, but I still lurk on the forums occasionally.. Looks like I haven’t missed a kitten thing. Same old DR’s, crap drops and broken events..

I really miss launch, the game was fun then.

The game is more fun for me now than it was at launch. Not having basic things working like the marketplace sucked quite badly. Most personal stories were bugged and just about all of Orr. There’s been a lot of improvement since then.

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once. Maybe it’s about playing a game instead of farming a game. Some of us enjoy this game because we play it.

If the farmers are the only ones complaining, Anet is doing something right.

Wow, never experienced DR? I guess you never tried to do two dungeon runs in one day to work towards a set of exotic armor?

IF I were the kind of guy who needed to get everything as fast as I could, I would run the same dungeon over and over. But see, some of us have patience and don’t really care if I get it today or tomorrow.

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day, just for the hell of it. And I didn’t see diminishing returns because I find running the same dungeon path over and over again boring.

Even a couple of days in a row, I probably wouldn’t run the same path. Some people need everything yesterday. I’m not one of those people.

And since I KNOW about that very specific case of diminshing returns, I’d reason out it’s even more efficient for me timewise to not run the same path twice in the same day.

So yeah, I never experienced that.

Man you’re making a lot of assumptions and points when I was just pointing out that you have experienced DR.

You say you have never experienced DR, but you said you have also run the same path multiple times in a dungeon. You are aware that you get less tokens through the DR system if you run the same path more than once in a day?

So, what you said is false. You have experienced DR. Why do you feel the need to lie to people?

He didn’t say that; are you being serious in this post?

Which part didn’t he say? Because, I’ll quote the two parts below that are mutually exclusive, yet he says they happened:

Vayne.8563:

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once.

Vayne.8563:

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day

You can’t run the same path more than once in a day without experiencing DR. End of story. He lied.

Yes, I’ve run THREE EXPLORABLE PATHS, not the same explorable path over and over. In addition to your reprehensibility to insult, we can now savor your inability to read.

Each explorable path of the same dungeon, is still the same dungeon. If I run all three paths of AC, which are all different in the same day, I won’t experience DR. I’d have to run the same explorable path to experience that.

This doesn’t make me a liar. This is simply you drawing a bad conclusion from what I wrote. By calling me a liar, you only make yourself look bad.

Why must you resort to sarcasm and personal attacks. Could it be because you have nothing to back up what you’re saying?

I think your incomprehensibility to write is greater than my ability to read your mind when you said you ran three paths. Had you said the word “different” paths, then it would be much more clear. However, you did not differentiate, which means that it is at the reader’s discretion to choose what you mean since your writing skills are clearly lacking.

Sorry, but you just keep failing on many many levels here.

Also, what exactly is the point you think I am failing to back up. You simply said you never experienced DR, I said then you must not have run a dungeon more than once, and then you went on a tirade.

It is pretty clear that if you run a dungeon more than once, you will experience DR. I mean it is a developer imposed mechanic in the game. Unless, you don’t believe that exists, but then you would just be fooling yourself.

I do apologize that I misread your ambiguous post and that appears to have made you quite irritable.

Other people understood what I said. Strange, huh?

But anyway I’m done with you. Have a nice life. In two years, I’m pretty sure I’ll still be playing this game and I’m pretty sure it’ll still be successful. I hope you find a game you like too.

It’s almost impossible to say. We know more than 3 million copies sold, but that’s about it.

I know there’s a ton of people on my server at almost all hours though. I also understand some servers are less busy.

On my server, if you ask on the map, you’ll often get people telling you were bosses are, which helps.

If another guild gets a bounty and you get a few shots in with your guild, you BOTH get credit for it.

The last two times we succeeded in our bounties, we did so because of another guild that had already started the final boss, and we were able to get shots in to succeed. It was fun.

I also enjoy the prescouting bit. I enjoy the coordination and working together as a guild.

A 15 minute guild event is sorta short. An hour and a half guild event is just about right for me.

clay.7849:

Hawkian.6580:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

I quit months ago do to DR’s, but I still lurk on the forums occasionally.. Looks like I haven’t missed a kitten thing. Same old DR’s, crap drops and broken events..

I really miss launch, the game was fun then.

The game is more fun for me now than it was at launch. Not having basic things working like the marketplace sucked quite badly. Most personal stories were bugged and just about all of Orr. There’s been a lot of improvement since then.

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once. Maybe it’s about playing a game instead of farming a game. Some of us enjoy this game because we play it.

If the farmers are the only ones complaining, Anet is doing something right.

Wow, never experienced DR? I guess you never tried to do two dungeon runs in one day to work towards a set of exotic armor?

IF I were the kind of guy who needed to get everything as fast as I could, I would run the same dungeon over and over. But see, some of us have patience and don’t really care if I get it today or tomorrow.

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day, just for the hell of it. And I didn’t see diminishing returns because I find running the same dungeon path over and over again boring.

Even a couple of days in a row, I probably wouldn’t run the same path. Some people need everything yesterday. I’m not one of those people.

And since I KNOW about that very specific case of diminshing returns, I’d reason out it’s even more efficient for me timewise to not run the same path twice in the same day.

So yeah, I never experienced that.

Man you’re making a lot of assumptions and points when I was just pointing out that you have experienced DR.

You say you have never experienced DR, but you said you have also run the same path multiple times in a dungeon. You are aware that you get less tokens through the DR system if you run the same path more than once in a day?

So, what you said is false. You have experienced DR. Why do you feel the need to lie to people?

He didn’t say that; are you being serious in this post?

Which part didn’t he say? Because, I’ll quote the two parts below that are mutually exclusive, yet he says they happened:

Vayne.8563:

As for DR, I’ve been playing this game for six months and NEVER experienced DR. Not once.

Vayne.8563:

I have occassionally run three explorable paths of the same dungeon in one day

You can’t run the same path more than once in a day without experiencing DR. End of story. He lied.

Yes, I’ve run THREE EXPLORABLE PATHS, not the same explorable path over and over. In addition to your reprehensibility to insult, we can now savor your inability to read.

Each explorable path of the same dungeon, is still the same dungeon. If I run all three paths of AC, which are all different in the same day, I won’t experience DR. I’d have to run the same explorable path to experience that.

This doesn’t make me a liar. This is simply you drawing a bad conclusion from what I wrote. By calling me a liar, you only make yourself look bad.

Why must you resort to sarcasm and personal attacks. Could it be because you have nothing to back up what you’re saying?

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Guild Wars II has been out for six months. The devs are still learning how to optimize the gameplay experience for most people.

Some games have been out for many years, and have had a lot of changes that made the gameplay experience worse, but over time those changes were reverted, even improved in some cases. GWII is no different. The devs will learn more and more about what works for the game and what doesn’t work for the game. You just need to give them time.

Why does anyone NEED to give the devs time to polish an unpolished game?

What happened to the YEARS of experience they had with GW1, which did break the mold, that they threw out the window?

I honestly don’t see this game surviving past the next couple of good MMO releases.

Well that’s a relief to me, because I’ve yet to see a good MMO release. Have fun waiting for one.

I saw one, it was called Guild Wars 1. But, I guess that wasn’t a real MMO. You’re right though, I haven’t seen a good MMO release, including this one. I guess GW2 will end up like all the rest.

You weren’t seriously hoping that GW2 is gonna survive by some miracle where other MMO’s couldn’t right?

Guild Wars 2 will not only survive, it will thrive. Maybe without you and players like you, but there are still plenty of players like me and the people I play with. Lots and lots of people don’t like this game. Lots and lots of people do like this game. You can say the same about WoW, which is undoubtedly successful. Lots of people hate Wow, but it’s irrelevant, because lots of people play it. The same is true of Guild Wars 2.

And it doesn’t need ten million people to be successful. So this game won’t go the way most games have gone. Rift is still around and doing fine.

The problems that many games have had on launch, for the most part, aren’t part of Guild Wars 2’s problems. Two years from now, you’ll still be saying this game won’t survive, but it will probably have a higher population than it does now.

Wow, your points are brilliant and moving. With such a strong argument, who can deny that you are correct? The one that got me the most was when you said you and your friends will keep playing it for a long time. That was when I knew I lost the argument.

One a less sarcastic note, you’ve never been a good history student eh?

Sarcasm doesn’t win arguments. It shows that the perpetrator of sarcasm has run out of legitimate points.

You say you guess Guild Wars 2 will end up like all the rest. It’s a bad guess. You have nothing to base it on but your theory that other people want what you want. And some do. And some don’t. So the question becomes, are there enough players like me to support this game and make it successful. I suspect that there is.

I don’t really have to be eloquent. Time will tell. In two years time, come around and see if Guild Wars 2 is dead.

There is no way to win this argument until we see what happens. Although, history and logic is on my side.

I was just lolling at your logic that because you and your friends like the game, it won’t die. You do know that there are a lot of dead games people are still playing right?

You have no logic on your side, and no history either. That’s because just about every single game that’s come down the pike as an MMO after WoW has been more or less a WoW clone. Guild Wars 2 isn’t. So history is irrelevant.

For example, I don’t like most MMOs but I do like Guild Wars 2. There are a number of people I know who don’t like most MMOs that like Guild Wars 2. Because there’s no monthly fee, which hurts a lot of MMOs, because there’s no trinity which I can’t stand, because there’s no fighting over nodes, or tagging mobs, there are a whole lot of things this game has done differently. Hell it’s the first game I ever enjoyed an escort quest in .

So your logic is flawed. And your use of history even more flawed. Yes, every game will eventually die, but there are people who still play UO. Guild Wars 2 won’t ever have the popularity that a game like WoW has. But you know, there are plenty of good books out there that don’t have the popularity of Harry Potter. Does that make them dead?

Hell, even an MMO like Eve Online has continually gotten more players over the years. Why? Because it’s different.

I believe this game is sufficiently different enough to hold onto enough of the playerbase to keep going. And my belief and experience in gaming is no less educated and no less prophetic than yours.