Guild Wars 2

Eclipses.7152:

Vayne.8563:

The chest nerf is fine. It was too much to begin with. People with lots of alts are mad because they can’t make easy bank anymore. So?

I have a lot of alts too, 6 level 80s and I think this change is a good one for the game. In fact, they should have started it sooner than the patch.

People will do the least they can to get the most loot. That’s just how people are. So the company has to mitigate that by “nerfing” the loot. With so many world events, there’s still plenty of guaranteed loot to get.

Anyone who thinks it isn’t enough is just being greedy.

You’re completely missing his point. He isn’t speaking against the loot change, he’s talking about more and more reward mechanics, i.e. the upcoming WvW progression system, to be character bound and thus discouraging to those with alts.

This was the OP’s last line…

Am i the only one frustrated with the upcoming nerfs to rewards/participation ability of multiple characters? I think altering your current system will only drive more away.

I actually think that the nerf of the rewards sparked his post. All games have some rewards that are account bound and some that are soul bound. Probably some should be changed, but in my opinion, it’s the nerf to chests that drove the OP to post this topic. It’s clearly bothering him.

Eclipses.7152:

I’m expecting this update to suck.

Thinking of this update has me remembering that “Lowered Expectations” skit MadTV used to do.

Then you probably won’t be disappointed. lol

The chest nerf is fine. It was too much to begin with. People with lots of alts are mad because they can’t make easy bank anymore. So?

I have a lot of alts too, 6 level 80s and I think this change is a good one for the game. In fact, they should have started it sooner than the patch.

People will do the least they can to get the most loot. That’s just how people are. So the company has to mitigate that by “nerfing” the loot. With so many world events, there’s still plenty of guaranteed loot to get.

Anyone who thinks it isn’t enough is just being greedy.

Rodantho.6890:

Uruz Six.6594:

Rodantho.6890:

P.S. I prefear to pay a monthly fee and have an epic gaming experience like World of Warcraft, than play for free and get bored in a month.

If we’re just too casual for you, well… bye.

You are leaving? Bye, I won’t miss you

btw, a monthly fee is both beneficial for company and players. They get more profit, we get more content and this is undisputed.

I can dispute it. I’ve played many games with monthly fees and not all of them delivered more, or even better content. Some do, but not all by a long shot.

Sovta.4719:

How is it different?
I don’t play 1 day there, i don’t get something i need for doing end game.
I don’t play 1 day here, i don’t get something i need for doing end game.(farming/grinding is not end game, or is it?)
Also you get points for raid there, points for guild missions here. Only difference is guild missions are nowhere near epic.

Point one, you don’t need anything from the laurel vendor to play end game. You really don’t. I play end game without it. You perceive a need that’s not there. That’s on you.

But it’s still different.

Someone gets something for doing something. That’s a reward they get. If you don’t do it, you don’t get that reward. But nothing’s been taken away from you because you never had it.

It’s only been taken away from you if you had it already and lost it. Admittedly it’s semantics, but when you’re on a text forum, words and meanings are sorta everything.

Sovta.4719:

Oh, sorry then.
Happened to me sometimes, especially if more then 1 people try to ress, guess you just need guardian then.

Our guild is pretty casual. We have runs with guardians and runs without them. If you really want a challenge, try doing Project Alpha with a mesmer, an ele, an engie, a necro and a thief, because we’ve done it. It was pretty tense. lol

Sovta.4719:

marnick.4305:

Chuo.4238:

Kumakichi.2583:

“the grind” is a matter of perspective but mmo’s tend to tap into the OCD of a lot of players. They dump rediculous hours into an mmo to get all the best gear and coolest stuff. Then they are so burned out from grinding they usually hate the game and quit playing. I’ve watched this happen to several friends. Some have quit playing mmo’s altogether.

Ever knew anyone who worked harder at an MMO than at their job? Or worse, lost their job because they prioritized an MMO over their job? I gotta wonder how that happens…but it does.

I’m not blaming MMO’s for this; they didn’t force anyone to do anything. It’s just something that makes me go “hmmmmmm…”

To be honest … I blame the player, just like I blame the heroin addict, not the heroin itself.

I chose GW2 to be my game of choice because I can actually alt+f4 and not lose sleep over it. In <other game>, going out means losing 1 day worth of DKP.

And i loose 1 day worth laurel if i don’t login 1 day.
And in “other game” to be honest…i blame the player, you don’t have to grind there if you don’t like it.

You don’t lose a laurel, because you never had it. You simply don’t gain a laurel. Not quite the same thing.

Sovta.4719:

Vayne.8563:

Sovta.4719:

Vayne.8563:

But since Anet has said they’re going to redo world bosses (and we see some of that in Orr already), I guess its’ a matter of time before it changes. And there’s still Project Alpha and Lupi for people who actually want that level of frustration. lol

You can zerg alpha too (stack on him, dodge once in a while, some classes can probably save you easy even if you fails dodge), dodging once in a 10 s isn’t really great mechanic. Lupi is really great, just hoping they won’t nerf him cause of complains. (like they did with some other things)
And these “changes” to events for me it looks like fixes for events, they were probably intended to be that way from the start, but they rushed to release this game, gets more obvious more time it goes from launch.

The point is, for every guy who likes Lupi, ten guys can’t stand him. I’ve beaten him and still don’t like him.

You can stack on Alpha in the submarine path, but it’s much much harder in the other paths. And when we fight him on those paths, my guild, at least, doesn’t stack on him. We move a lot, we don’t rez people until they’re dead instead of downed, and we do a whole lot of moving and dodging.

I stack on him on p2 i think (with my guard, but i can see that it can get harder with no guardian)
Also did him many times on necro, you just need to dodge at a right time. But sometimes he can get undodgeable (pets and if someone dies he can focus more on you, it happened to me that he puts me in crystal, aoe on me, after first crystal is destroyed immediately 2nd crystal :P)
And for Lupicus just learn the game, i did it first time with 4 first timers (including me).
After that it’s really easy with good players.

“we don’t rez people until they’re dead instead of downed” ????? One of the basic rules of GW2 is to ress downed as fast as you can and don’t ress dead unless you are sure someone can kite boss.

The reason why we don’t rez people IN THAT BATTLE when they’re downed, is because Project Alpha targets downed players. Sometimes he crystals them, but he always puts millions of circles around them. Half the people who get downed in that battle do it trying to rez someone else downed.

In most dungeons we rezz people before they go down, because it makes good sense. But in that particularly battle (not the submarine path) we found it’s easier not to. We have more people up more often by running around and rezzing someone after death.

I wouldn’t have said it if it was something we normally did. It’s a strategy just for that fight.

Sovta.4719:

Vayne.8563:

But since Anet has said they’re going to redo world bosses (and we see some of that in Orr already), I guess its’ a matter of time before it changes. And there’s still Project Alpha and Lupi for people who actually want that level of frustration. lol

You can zerg alpha too (stack on him, dodge once in a while, some classes can probably save you easy even if you fails dodge), dodging once in a 10 s isn’t really great mechanic. Lupi is really great, just hoping they won’t nerf him cause of complains. (like they did with some other things)
And these “changes” to events for me it looks like fixes for events, they were probably intended to be that way from the start, but they rushed to release this game, gets more obvious more time it goes from launch.

The point is, for every guy who likes Lupi, ten guys can’t stand him. I’ve beaten him and still don’t like him.

You can stack on Alpha in the submarine path, but it’s much much harder in the other paths. And when we fight him on those paths, my guild, at least, doesn’t stack on him. We move a lot, we don’t rez people until they’re dead instead of downed, and we do a whole lot of moving and dodging.

I’ve had some bad ecto days and some really good ecto days. Today I got almost 2 ectos for each thing I salvaged. Made up for the lousy run I had for the last three days.

As others have said, RNG is RNG. There’s no evidence I can see of a nerf.

But since Anet has said they’re going to redo world bosses (and we see some of that in Orr already), I guess its’ a matter of time before it changes. And there’s still Project Alpha and Lupi for people who actually want that level of frustration. lol

Rifter.6591:

Vayne.8563:

I transferred servers early one, when it was free to get my WvW completion. I knew that there would be a charge at some point for server transfers, so while they were free, I transferred. It was before guesting so I couldn’t do anything but dungeons with my guild for a week but in the long run it was worth it.

I’m not sure unethical is the right word to use here considering how long the free world transfers went on for.

Yeah because everyone started playing the game when it was released… not.

Everyone didn’t but probably the biggest percentage of those playing did.

Sovta.4719:

defrule.7236:

I’m divided on the removal of trinity. I liked it a bit but hated it as well.

I think Final Fantasy 13 had a very nice system, although it was a single player game. You still had roles like tank/heal/dps/debuffer/buffer etc… but the neat thing was that any character can fill these rolls. So throughout the battle you are constantly shifting roles to adapt to the situation for example:

Boss fight begins.
Everyone shifts to dps/debuff roles.
Boss starts doing some damage.
One person transforms to tank role.
Tank getting low on health.
Another person transforms to healer role.
Boss does a massive attack, full party left almost dead.
Everyone shifts to healer role to quickly recover.

GW2 system is more fun.
Boss fight begins.
Everyone stays in dps.
Boss dies.
Everyone teleports to another wp to camp another boss.
Oh, wait….

Except in dungeons and fractals where that’s not completely true. If you’re talking about open world bosses, well, that’s pretty much the same as open world bosses in every game I’ve encountered them in.

I transferred servers early one, when it was free to get my WvW completion. I knew that there would be a charge at some point for server transfers, so while they were free, I transferred. It was before guesting so I couldn’t do anything but dungeons with my guild for a week but in the long run it was worth it.

I’m not sure unethical is the right word to use here considering how long the free world transfers went on for.

BlackhawkSOM.6401:

All I was saying is if you do most of the event it should reward you properly.

If you think the system is so perfect then why is most of the open world 50% more emptier than it was on release? Because now that end game has hit dynamic events except in orr are not worth doing BECAUSE nobody is there.

The world is 50% emptier on release, because it’s an MMO and I can’t think of ANY MMO that’s not true of. ALL MMOs lose players over the months that follow. The fact that there are still people in early zones, and there are on my server, means the game is actually successful. It is the fastest selling MMO of all time.

Your claim that half the people left the game and so therefore there’s something wrong with X or Y is a conclusion you can’t really make. Maybe people left to play other games. Maybe people left because they don’t like the ascended gear release. Maybe they left to play MoP which was’t out when the game launched. Saying you know why people play or don’t play is just silly.

In fact, I can think that if we made the changes you suggest, a lot of people who now enjoy the game might leave, including me. I play this game because it’s more noncompetitive in PVe and a lot of other people seem to enjoy this aspect as well. You don’t, and that’s fine. There are tons of games for you, I think there should be a game for the rest of us as well.

If it were as simple as you’re saying it is, I’d say go for it. It’s not. Because no one is ever really satisfied.

So Anet takes the development time to make an open world PvP server. Which can happen. But it takes away from other development time. If people on that server would NEVER complain about anything, if Anet could just switch it on and leave it, that would be great. But what it would become is yet another server type to fix bugs on, deal with complaints about, etc.

I don’t think the biggest percentage of the population of the community wants or needs it. There is always a small hard core group that wants it, but time and time again, most games show that those servers are under-utilized.

So while it’s great in theory, it’s not going to happen. Because Anet already has enough problems troubleshooting even on server type. Particularly in a game with DEs, just imagine the chaos.

I take it you didn’t complain when you had to get 50 kills in WvW all those months, huh?

The fact is, anything in the game is fair game for a daily. It takes considerably longer to get 50 kills in WvW than it does to get this crafting daily.

Mental block is a mental block. As pointed out, the time it took you to write the OP is probably as long as the crafting daily actually takes. It’s really a matter of minutes.

If that’s too hard/too much for you to do, don’t do it. The monthly will be here next month.

Healix.5819:

Zaxares.5419:

The only time I would complain about this is when you do a DE solo and you only get a Bronze or Silver reward. I mean… How does that even happen?!

It means it’s bugged and you’re supposed to report it. The only time I’ve seen a bronze while soloing, besides finding an event that was left at >50% complete, was while doing a timed defense event, where waves spawn as soon as the last wave was killed. I’m assuming the contribution was based off of the number of waves killed, since kiting them around for the duration would yield bronze whereas killing them was silver.

Vayne.8563:

I mean in other games where you have to tag mobs, and you’re waiting for a boss to respawn and you’ve been waiting and some idiot rolls in at the last second and tags him before you, you have a moment of rage. I don’t find that fun.

That’s the flaw with the tagging system.

The flaw with the shared system is that I can exploit you. For example, if you’re doing an event or killing something, I just have to wait and watch and come by when you’re almost done and start attacking it to get the exact same level of rewards that you do but without any of the effort. For wave of mobs events, you just have to kill 1 group and walk off to get gold. For boss events, you just have to do about 1% damage. You are rewarded for abusing others.

One major flaw with shared loot, from a solo perspective, is that you can’t claim group loot. For example, in the tagging system, you can solo a dungeon and be rewarded with a group’s worth of loot. Here, not so much. The only extra reward you get for your effort is the knowledge on how to succeed.

Another side effect of shared looting is that since everyone gets loot, the drop rate of special items has to be lowered to compensate. In the tagging system, it’s usually 5 (to raid size) people max that can try their luck at a time. With the shared system, it’s as many as you can throw at it. It’s no surprise that they’re going with one time daily rewards in various forms.

Both systems have their pros and cons, with the shared system being more casually favorable whereas the tagging system is more overall fair.

I don’t care what other people do. Why should I? If they enjoy that, let them do that. It’s fine. Sure they can scale up the event a bit and make it more challenging but that’s also fine by me.

I’d much rather play a game with this system than the other one. I know this because I hated the other one. lol

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I applaud the OP for deciding not to do something he doesn’t want to. I also do what I want, when I want. This means when I do play, I enjoy it. Sometimes that means farming, which is something I enjoy in moderate doses.

It’s too bad the karma reward system is under-utilized. The game throws karma at people all the time, for practically everything they do. I thought going in that karma was going to play a bigger role in getting, as the OP calls them, cool things. That said, I think more cool things will be added to the game going forward. Fortunately for me, I plan to be around for the long haul, taking my time.

Well you do need a boatload of karma for legendaries.

True… however those who are not going for legendaries are likely to end up with a boatload of Karma if there’s nothing to spend it on. I see they’ve added back pieces and some exotic trinkets to temple vendors, so there’s hope for more stuff down the pipe.

I’m sure they’ll add more. There’s also the new boxes, which is a way to taking karma from a character to has it and inefficiently move it to an alt, if you need karma on an alt, while still having a chance at a minipet or lodestone.

It’s a gambling thing, sure, but it’s something to do with karma.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I applaud the OP for deciding not to do something he doesn’t want to. I also do what I want, when I want. This means when I do play, I enjoy it. Sometimes that means farming, which is something I enjoy in moderate doses.

It’s too bad the karma reward system is under-utilized. The game throws karma at people all the time, for practically everything they do. I thought going in that karma was going to play a bigger role in getting, as the OP calls them, cool things. That said, I think more cool things will be added to the game going forward. Fortunately for me, I plan to be around for the long haul, taking my time.

Well you do need a boatload of karma for legendaries.

I don’t farm anything, and I’m well on my way to a legendary. The difference is, I expect it to take a long time, so I just enjoy what I enjoy.

Sometimes I run with guildies and do fractals or dungeons. Sometimes I get an onyx core, which I need for my legendary, or better yet, an onyx lodestone. It’ll take me months to get all the onyx lodestones I need. So?

I’m also making money. No matter what zone I’m in, I’m making money. I don’t make it as fast as a farmer, but then, I’m out having fun, doing what I want. The only thing I don’t really do regularly is SPvP, because then I’m not making anything I can use. But everything else in the game is fair.

Playing high level characters, you get pretty good rewards out in the world. Again, not as much as farming, but more fun for me.

So someone who farms and feels they need that legendary next month, they’ll be bored for a month. I’ll play with guildies, do whatever I want, and eventually get my legendary in 3-4 months from now. Why should I care?

If you want to enjoy the game, find something you want to do and enjoy it. I find it particularly fun to play with like minded players and have a laugh, rather than farm Orr. But even farming Orr in a guild group is faster and more fun than just doing it alone.

Tarnished Coast has been the unoffical US RP server since launch. There are more RPers and guilds devoted to RP on Tarnished Coast than any other US server.

The problem with most MMOs is that people are selfish, because of how things are rewarded. So if you did get a better reward for soloing, what would happen when you’re soloing something and someone else show’s up. You’d be all kitten off. Go away, this is my kill.

This is precisely the type of attitude Anet wants to diminish.

If I see more players, I know I’ll get rewards faster, and not suffer for them. It’s intentional, and in my opinion, good. I’d rather be happy to see people than get kitten off at seeing them.

I mean in other games where you have to tag mobs, and you’re waiting for a boss to respawn and you’ve been waiting and some idiot rolls in at the last second and tags him before you, you have a moment of rage. I don’t find that fun.

So enjoy soloing the champion as a challenge, but be happy you’re playing a game that doesn’t reward that behavior, because it’s one of the best things about this game.

While I agree you could have done more research, I also think Anet could make stuff clearer. I mean before I did that much work, I’d have checked it out, but you shouldn’t have study stuff deeply to understand it. If there’s a requirement, it should be made blatantly obvious and I can’t think of any reason why it shouldn’t be made that way.

However, the whole concept of progression is what MMOs have always been about. The problem is that many people, maybe even most, need progression. For a long time there was very little reason to join a guild, aside from social stuff. Now there’s a reason and it’s long overdue.

Big guilds needed this kind of thing. And Anet has said they’re looking at ways to help smaller guilds access this content as well.

From experience, most people who call other people bad are simply compensating for deep-seated feelings of insecurity. They think they’re better than they are, and the feeling of superiority they get from putting other people down helps them deal with their fear of inadequacy.

People who suffer from insecurity can take two different routes. They can either avoid doing stuff, because they’re not good enough, or they can brag about how great they are and blame other people when everything goes to hell.

It’s a sign more of their own inability to take responsibility than any objective sense of who’s good or who’s bad.

I would imagine emote packs will eventually be available for gems.

JaironKalach.4938:

Vayne.8563:

There’s a reason why people feel it’s an us and them situation…and not an unreasonable one.

There are people, quite a few of us, who don’t like MMOs at all. I’ve always seen the potential of MMOs, but I’ve never found one I could play…until now. The reason people are so bent out of shape over gear progression is fear. Fear that this game will become like other games and will suddenly be out of reach for them. In a way, Anet themselves set this up by saying, “If you love MMOs you’ll want to check out Guild Wars 2 and if you hate MMOs you’re REALLY want to check out Guild Wars 2.”

For some people this is the only playable MMO on the market right now. And every time Anet makes a change away from people’s “gold standard”, they take it personally.

I think too many people have been burned too many times to believe it won’t happen again.

I agree with you, but it makes the small bit of empathy I have very sad for folks. It sounds like they are being driven out of enjoying the game they have, by their fears of what the game might become.

I still think that the OP in this thread was dead on, with his realization. Although the second half of that thread shifted into some crazy defensiveness, as always.

It may not sound like it, but I empathize with people do. I feel their fear. I just don’t believe it will get like other games. I don’t believe content will be gated. By the time you need gear to do something, Anet will make it so the gear is pretty easily available. That’s my belief. I’ve yet to see otherwise.

Chuo.4238:

Cowrex.9564:

As much as I love the idea. It would be terrible since people will misunderstand it and cause a ruckus.

“Could you describe the ruckus?”

Sorry, couldn’t resist ;-)

The Breakfast Club. I really enjoyed that movie. lol

I’m going for a couple of them (kill me now).

I’m going for the Predator, because the Hunter dropped for me during the Karka event. Then, when the preview came into the Marketplace and I could see the others, I decided I had to have Kraitkin, even though it’s a trident and no one else will likely ever see it.

But it has snakes. Moving, writhing, twisting snakes. It’s the only lengedary that I looked at and felt I had to have. Fortunately the precusor was only 29 gold on the trading post.

Valenthor.4052:

I think your idea that Arenanet appealed this game to a certain “kind” of audience is completely unfounded and baffling to me. They want to appeal to as many people as they can, so they can make more money (I know shocking). This is a full on triple A MMO, this isn’t some kickstarter niche game. I think they made this game with many concepts that are outside the norm, but also kept many standard features with a few tweaks. This isn’t black and white, stop trying to turn it into an us against them (those that like GW2 and those that like the traditional MMOs). Shades of gray people, shades of gray.

There’s a reason why people feel it’s an us and them situation…and not an unreasonable one.

There are people, quite a few of us, who don’t like MMOs at all. I’ve always seen the potential of MMOs, but I’ve never found one I could play…until now. The reason people are so bent out of shape over gear progression is fear. Fear that this game will become like other games and will suddenly be out of reach for them. In a way, Anet themselves set this up by saying, “If you love MMOs you’ll want to check out Guild Wars 2 and if you hate MMOs you’re REALLY want to check out Guild Wars 2.”

For some people this is the only playable MMO on the market right now. And every time Anet makes a change away from people’s “gold standard”, they take it personally.

I think too many people have been burned too many times to believe it won’t happen again.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Harbinger.9645:

Wait this game doesn’t have gear progression? Granted it’s nothing on the scale that other MMO’s have, but gear progression and the grind associated with it are still very present in this game.

There is a huge difference between gear progression and REQUIRED gear grind. That’s the point.

Guild Wars 1 had gear progression too. You could have a top tier weapon with max stats or without it. With plus 29 health or plus 30 health. Not every max level weapon was equal.

Not to mention, even before ascended gear, there were already tiers of gear in Guild Wars 2, much like GW 1. Rare, exotic, same level of gear, different stats. That’s gear progression.

I think a lot of people played Guild Wars 1 and didn’t play a lot of other MMOs. Anyone who says this is turning into WoW really hasn’t spent much time in WoW. The content isn’t gated. The higher levels of fractals DO require ascended gear, which you get for free for doing fractals. But you can see everything the fractals has to offer without ever getting ascended gear at all.

Dungeons aren’t gated. No one needs ascended gear to do dungeons. You don’t even need exotics.

Yes, the difference between gear you need to grind for isn’t cosmetic in Guild Wars 2, that’s true. But it doesn’t change the fact that the game doesn’t require you to grind for any of it. You can play through the content without grind if that’s what you choose to do. It’s certainly what I choose to do.

Just because there isn’t content for max gear doesn’t mean anything except that this game is way too easy.

I mean, why even have exotic gear if there isn’t anything that makes it necessary?

That’s a really good question. The answer is simple. A lot of people WANT stuff to work for. Look at all the people who feel they NEED BIS gear, even though they’re not running fractals. It’s not one or two, it’s a lot of them.

MMOs have always been about giving people stuff to do. There are a number of different ways to accomplish this, but a lot of it has always been pointless…unless you want the thing they’re offering you. Getting a black moa chick mini in Guild Wars 1 didn’t really do anything for you, at least not before the HoM kicked into gear, but people really enjoyed going for it.

Though I don’t need exotic gear, I still have it on most of my 80s. It’s something to do.

You know, I bought Tomb Raider recently and it’s a 12 hour game, maybe 14. I’ve spent a whole lot more time in Guild Wars 2. Why? Doing stuff. Not everything I want to do, you’ll want to do, which is why the company needs to provide different things for different people. I’ll never grind dungeon armor, ever. I don’t enjoy dungeons enough to care. I don’t like any of it enough to make it worth it.

But I’m working on a couple of legendary weapons.

Cowrex.9564:

Wait…..where is Tarnished Coast? Is it in the US or EU?

Tarnished Coast is a US server.

Harbinger.9645:

Wait this game doesn’t have gear progression? Granted it’s nothing on the scale that other MMO’s have, but gear progression and the grind associated with it are still very present in this game.

There is a huge difference between gear progression and REQUIRED gear grind. That’s the point.

Guild Wars 1 had gear progression too. You could have a top tier weapon with max stats or without it. With plus 29 health or plus 30 health. Not every max level weapon was equal.

Not to mention, even before ascended gear, there were already tiers of gear in Guild Wars 2, much like GW 1. Rare, exotic, same level of gear, different stats. That’s gear progression.

I think a lot of people played Guild Wars 1 and didn’t play a lot of other MMOs. Anyone who says this is turning into WoW really hasn’t spent much time in WoW. The content isn’t gated. The higher levels of fractals DO require ascended gear, which you get for free for doing fractals. But you can see everything the fractals has to offer without ever getting ascended gear at all.

Dungeons aren’t gated. No one needs ascended gear to do dungeons. You don’t even need exotics.

Yes, the difference between gear you need to grind for isn’t cosmetic in Guild Wars 2, that’s true. But it doesn’t change the fact that the game doesn’t require you to grind for any of it. You can play through the content without grind if that’s what you choose to do. It’s certainly what I choose to do.

Geikamir.6329:

First, I didn’t take anything out of context. He said that, I quoted that, I replied to that. In parenthesis did I put words in his mouth? No.

About GW1: So you can name just ONE thing he could have been talking about that just you liked and you think that constitutes saying “We take everything you love about GW1 and put it in a persistent world”? And implying that doesn’t even take max gear at level 20 is definitely trying to twist the truth to fit your argument. GW1’s only remarkable things in PvE were very specifically connected to how fast you got to the stat plateau. Period.

They started off building a different MMO that everyone else was building and then progressively (starting in about November) have when through the same process. What do other MMO’s have that “people that hate MMO’s” would not enjoy? One of the main ones is gear grind. And that’s exactly what ascended gear is. Another one is questing. And that’s exactly what hearts are.

Snip

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success/

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Taking a sentence out of a paragraph, and using that sentence without the paragraph is the VERY definition of taking something out of context. The rest of the paragraph IS the context. It’s very clear what he’s talking about. I’m not the only one here who’s pointed this out. English is a very funny language. Take away the rest of what’s being said and things can be made to sound like other things.

Colin was CLEARLY talking about making combat fun instead of grinding mobs like you have to do in so many MMOs. In fact the very line after "We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2 is “Not one enjoys it, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way that people view combat.” What part of “people view combat” makes you believe he’s talking about gear grind. Learn the language.

There are plenty of things about this game that I like that are reminiscent of Guild Wars 1. For example, Guild Wars 1 never had a true trinity and I never rolled with a tank. For example, healing was never as important as protection and I like that a lot better. In most games, you need to think healing, not protection.

In fact, I play this game very much the way I played Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 was a game made for explorers also. Hell, Trahearne is the same exact annoying NPC they’ve had in almost every game since the start of Guild Wars. You don’t see a similarity between Trahearne and Komir? lol

I don’t feel the gear grind or progession in this game because like in Guild Wars 1, I just play and stuff comes to me.

And yeah there are changes. A marketplace instead of spamming my wares in Kamada all day, underwater combat, which I love, actual cities (which arguably Guild Wars didn’t have until Kaineng Center and never had again). Not to mention Charr, Asura and Norn are all in both Guild Wars and here and I like them in both games.

But seriously, I don’t feel the differences between Guild Wars 1 and this game that you feel. I really don’t. Because I choose to play this game in the same way and it works. If you’re choosing to play it another way, no one can help you.

As for your other quotes, people keep talking about the manifesto. I’m not saying nothing has changed. Two paragraphs from two interviews, repeated a zillion times is not the change of intent everyone has made it out to be. Content isn’t gated behind gear like it is in other games and you can play this game quite easily without ascended gear. In fact, on most of my characters I do. The compromise Anet made with ascended gear is just that, a compromise. It only changes the game in your head.

Geikamir.6329:

Behellagh.1468:

Geikamir.6329:

Behellagh.1468:

People have different definitions of grind and fun. They assume the devs have the same definitions as they do. Those who are upset ignored the context where those words were used in the manifesto (in reference to quests and combat).

Well if the terms are subjective then if I think they are a lie, they genuinely are lies (to me) right? If the terms are objective, then what is their predefined definition?

Why use subjective terms to market for any other reason except to be able to back peddle when the bottom line needs it?

The developers were quite specific in the manifesto video what they meant by grind. It’s not their fault that specificity was omitted or ignored when the word was circulated. They called simplistic combat systems found in older MMOs a grind. They said in older MMOs you had to go through the “boring grind” before you got to the “fun stuff”.

I keep hearing how the devs promised “no grinding for gear” yet there was nothing in the manifesto about gear.

Some quotes from the video starting from the beginning:

“…and if you hate MMOs you’ll REALLY wanna check out GW2.” (Implying that the typical things players hate about MMO’s would not be present).

“We take everything you love about GW1 and put it in a persistent world…” (One of THE MAIN things about GW1 was a hard level cap and very easy to obtain end game gear. In fact, that’s the only thing about GW1’s PvE that was truly unique to the game. In fact, what else could you name that they could be talking about?)

“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2.” (Pure marketing talk or lies, one of the two).

“We do not want to build the same MMO that everyone else is building.” (This was related to the personal story directly, but it’s more enforcement that this game is really meant for the non-typical MMO players).

I do hate other MMOs and I do think this MMO is MUCh better than others. Why? Because of the lack of kill stealing and node stealing, for one thing. The quest system in most MMOs, which I can’t stand. The level process which does require you to do a lot of bullkitten before having fun. I had fun from a very low level in Guild Wars 1. There are very few MMOs that give you events like the Shadow Behemoth in a starting zone.

YOU claim the main thing is the 20 level cap. I don’t think that’s a main thing. It was never a main thing for me. What was the main thing for me was that I could play the game and enjoy it and not think about leveling at all, unlike most MMOs. And guess what? I play Guild Wars 2 exactly the same way. I don’t think about level at all. That’s a choice, not something that Anet betrayed anyone on. Not like you get to max level and suddenly you can raid and PvP.

We don’t want player to grind in Guild Wars 2. This is perhaps the most disingenuous part of your entire post. A single line taken out of context, used to prove a totally fallacious point. Take the entire paragraph, read it and then tell me that line explains the paragraph. Colin is talking about combat grind, or grinding to level. Killing stuff to level. He’s talking about changing the way that people view combat. He’s NOT talking about grinding for gear, and no one with even the most basic grasp of the English language could construe that he was, if you take the entire post into account.

We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building. And they haven’t…for numerous reasons. It’s very different from many MMOs, so different many people try it and can’t figure out what to do. The breadcrumb trail found in almost every MMO is not there, the standard quests are largely gone and people are lost. If it was the same as every MMO people wouldn’t be lost.

This is simply an opinion stated as fact, but you know, I watched the same manifesto you did and have a completely different opinion. And your argument would be a lot more sympathetic if you didn’t take one major part of your diatribe out of context. It makes me question everything about all your other claims.

Softwood is the second type of wood in the game. It should be found in every single 15-25 zone. I seem to find it there. Fields of Ruin would seem a bit high for soft wood, if you ask me. Try Kessex hills and Briban Wildlands. Also, Diessa Plateau.

I have a ton of alts. I have one character that runs fractals. I don’t need to run fractals on my alts. In fact, I don’t even really need to run dungeons on different alts. My alts are there to play around in the open world, so I don’t need ascended gear on each of them.

Oh sure, I’m specced high enough to do dungeons on all of them. In fact, I just got my sixth 80 last night. She’s already in mostly 80 armor, has an exotic chest piece and two ascended rings, from my fractal character. Plus a rare back piece and amulet, also level 80.

I’m not so sure that most people who make alts feel the need to run fractals with all of them, and I’m not convinced that most people who are altoholics need BIS gear on every single character. I don’t.

I like the dye system also because it gives me something to work for on each character. I have so many dyes on all my alts, well, yeah.

The one thing that the OP said I agree with is that story mode dungeons should be unlocked by account, not by character. However, even this there’s a reason for. It’s harder for people to get story mode groups together than explorable groups, because the rewards are so much less. So if you take away the number of alts who need story mode from the pool of people who need those dungeons, you’re crippling new players who haven’t had a chance to do them yet.

Of course, since you can do an explorable as long as one person in the party has done story mode, this rarely is even a hindrance to me.

Do you know the enough already law? The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets.

You didn’t get the response you liked from your first thread, so you reworded it and tried again?

Sure it would be great. There, are you happy. But it’s not worth the programming time to change it. There are so many programming tasks being worked out. While this would undoubtedly be nice, it’s not going to happen.

You should probably quit while your’e ahead.

The mystic salvage kit gives you a better chance of returning rares that most other salvage kit. It still needs 3 mystic stones from the shop, but you get 250 uses out of it, so it’s much more affordable, even if you’re changing gold to gems.

You need a green, blue and yellow salvage kit and 3 mystic forgestones to make one in the mystic forge.

It actually ends up being cheaper than regular salvage kits even.

I got one which I bought from a guildie at the market price when it was about 20 gold. The problem is, it doesn’t really look that good with the number one skill, which should sort of sink with it’s shape. It’s actually not a great looking staff when you use it, which is a shame. I thought it looked cool.

Have you not see the number of complaints floating around about how much better ascended gear is than exotic gear? Maybe we’re on different forums.

The reason the stats are so low is because Anet isn’t making a game where gear matters as much to begin with. They wanted only cosmetic items in the first place and found that some people absolutely didn’t care about cosmetics at all. So they compromised. They gave modest stat upgrades to people who actually felt they needed to grind for better gear.

If they gave a real upgrade, they’d kitten off the rest of us even more.

Lexandro.1456:

If you want a star wars mmo, how about you go play SWTOR?

I think the OP wants a Star Wars MMO with many of the same sensibilities of Guild Wars 2. For example, more active combat, no trinity, that sort of thing.

Apparently the OP loves Guild Wars 2 as an MMO and loves Star Wars as an IP and wished to experience something which combines the two. Sort of how I feel about Lotro.

I think that game had mad potential and greed killed it. I love Lord of the Rings, but I find I can’t enjoy the game.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Also, I’d like to add that if you like housing and a detailed and flexible cosmetic outfit system, this game isn’t for you.

Except that most games don’t launch with either of these things and it’s almost always added after the fact. And probably will be added to this game.

Anyway it’s still not completely true. I like housing and a detailed cosmetic outfit system and this game is still for me. What you’re really saying is, if the game isn’t for you, is that your need for playing housing and a better cosmetic outfit system is so strong that it ruins everything else in the game.

Prepared.9156:

Vayne.8563:

Lying is not something that’s subjective, it’s objective, because it implies intent. You can’t lie accidentally. So you can say they didn’t do what they said they would, without using the word lie. Language is actually my business. i

It’s why I’m so sensitive to it.

This is not entirely accurate because if someone believes what another lied about and the person repeats the lie but doesn’t know it’s a lie, he’s doing so accidentally. A lie can be accidentally done and happens a lot in the online world. The reason is because of beliefs, nothing else. A belief can be a lie.

Sorry but no. Lying implies intent. If you’re saying something you believe to be true, you’re not lying. You are simply mistaken.

If I believe it’s 5 o’clock and a I say that, bu it’s really six, I didn’t lie. I made a mistake. This is really simple English. I earned my living as an editor, and I’m not just guessing here. You can’t just say someone is lying because they got something wrong, no matter how much you don’t like it. It’s bad use of the language. At very least you’re mistaken, but in most cases, what you have here is people using the word lie as a way to try to express their feelings.

Unless someone has proof of intent to mislead, something no one here does, than lying is at best an assumption. But the fact that a manifesto isn’t a guarantee of features of a statement of intent means that even if nothing in the manifesto came true, it still wouldn’t be a lie.

And no, this isn’t opinion, what I’ve written above is complete fact.

Guild Wars 2 is less of a gear based game, and more of a skill based game. You shouldn’t have to depend on gear. People say all the time you need this ascended gear to compete in WvW and I keep saying you don’t.

Because the game is about skill usage and your ability to move and dodge and pick the right skills and traits to keep you alive.

It’s not about more uber gear. This game is far less gear dependent than most MMOs.

Pandabro.8743:

Sky.7610:

Get a legendary.
Try to get maximum Fractal level.
Experience the world.
Try to become rich.
Meet new people.
Do guild missions.
Rage in PVP.
Rage in WvWvW.
Complaint on the forums.
Collect dyes.
Collect Minis.
Annoy people with Endless Bells.
Do the living story.

See? plenty to do

While this is a great list I feel like these posts are always missing the point. It’s not that there isn’t plenty to do it’s that there is no clear goals once you hit 80.

1-79 the objective is clear: get experience.

After that it’s kind of like… Okay now what? I have to do a bunch of research to figure out what path I want to take.

Basically this game doesn’t do a good job of curbing analysis paralysis. We have an abundance of options but we don’t really need more options we need a clear goal with an obvious path to make sure we are motivated to do something.

Some people do need a clear goal with a clear path. Some people HATE that. I don’t really want to be led around by the nose. In fact, Guild Wars 2 does this too much. I’d rather have less constraints than more constraints.

At any rate, having options shouldn’t be a bad thing. People need to learn how to have fun all over again, instead of being told what to do.

I’d say that finding a guild of like minded people is the best thing anyone can do. This game is a dozen times better with people into the same stuff you are. Right now I’m taking a break from helping a guildie level his first character to 80. We’re having a blast, even though I’ve done this all before.

Shiren.9532:

Vayne.8563:

When Anet let anyone have any trait, they found most traits were simply ignored and only a handful of builds existed that used only the best traits and no one went far in any line, because they got the best trait in all five lines.

This led to a build stagnation one of the major reasons it was changed. A lot of people complained about it at the time, a huge stir it caused, until people saw it and most people said it was okay the new way. There are still some hold outs though.

I think it’s better for the game the way it is, than the way it was.

Without wanting to restart that debate, that was a problem with many of the traits simply not being compelling (some traits are plain garbage). Honestly, the current design is horrible. The traits weren’t designed with a tier system in mind, the same traits from the no tier system are still around, just shoehorned into tiers now. The problem being some grandmaster traits are garbage and some major traits are better than them (some are also worse). The distribution also wasn’t optimised for build synergies. Had the system been built from the ground up as a tiered system (like wow talent trees) it would have made a lot more sense (they could have made sure grandmaster traits were meaningful things worth investing 30 points and minor traits all focused on supporting and increasing build diversity rather than simply stuff people didn’t want to take). The current design is the result of ArenaNet trying to fit a square into a circle and a lower quality product is the end result.

A lot of traits did change from the first version to the others. However, I agree a lot more work needs to be done. It’s STILL better for the game than it was the old way, even though people liked it more.

Well yeah, people want to be as powerful as they can be…but that doesn’t necessarily make it better for the game.

But yes, traits in some professions are really problematical, while in other professions they’re less so.

Geikamir.6329:

Vayne.8563:

Geikamir.6329:

Hume.2876:

The lack of trinity was a pretty big mistake on Arenanet part. Essentially all the classes play like DPSers with some added utility. Yes sure in theory there is still teamwork but its as if you decided to run a dungeon in WoW with 5 warlocks. Maybe they could do it with some awesome teamwork.

But the average run of the mill encounter/boss/world boss etc doesn’t use any team work. So called ‘easy’ teamwork isn’t there – and none of the other systems whether the combo system or the utility skills really compensate.

The end result is that the learning curve for this game is all messed up. Its either ultra easy all casual – but tricky in certain PvP situations/dungeons etc. I hate to break it to Arenanet but the holy trinity (group roles) really WAS a step forward for MMOs.

The rest of their problems – lack of progression etc can be fixed. But this fundamental design error weakens the game dramatically. I guess even GW1 had roles.

I feared it wouldn’t really work when I read about it – and it doesn’t. World Bosses are just zerg fests/buttom spams. That’s because as I explained before if they balanced it to be hard you might need some really tricky teamwork or like say a "burn’ team of all skilled glass cannons.

World bosses are zerg fests because scaling doesn’t work past a certain number and they aren’t instanced.

Also, the lack of trinity is the only thing that they have stood firm on and it’s the best thing about the entire game. Well, no trinity and active combat.

They stood firm on no monthly fee, beautiful scenary design, active combat, a branching storyline (storylines do branch), dynamic events, and a whole plethora of other things they said. People forget so easily.

Ah monthly fee, but with that they said that the gem store would be cosmetic ONLY. They changed the FAQ on wiki a couple months before BWE1. Then they gave players the ability to buy gold and boosts with cash. Whether that’s negative for you or not, is a different topic.

Everything else you mentioned is questionable.

For example:
-DE’s, while better than questing for sure, are accompanied with hearts. If you want to get a legendary (the PvE end-game) you have to do hearts. Hearts are exactly like old-style quests. Fetch/Kill 10 rats. They are even anti-team work because you can’t share the limited supply of slowly respawning collection items.

-Branching storylines. Oh, how wonderful they are…. until about level 30. Then it’s no longer a personal story, it’s Trahearne’s story. One where your decisions don’t matter because the entire path is identical in the end and he gets the most of the credit. Nothing you do prior to level 30-40ish matters or even is mentioned later in the game. It’s disconnected and disjointed. Quite far from “My Story” as was marketed.

What else?

Behellagh.1468:

People have different definitions of grind and fun. They assume the devs have the same definitions as they do. Those who are upset ignored the context where those words were used in the manifesto (in reference to quests and combat).

Well if the terms are subjective then if I think they are a lie, they genuinely are lies (to me) right? If the terms are objective, then what is their predefined definition?

Why use subjective terms to market for any other reason except to be able to back peddle when the bottom line needs it?

Hearts aren’t like old style quests. Most hearts, almost all of them, I skip and get incidentally when doing events. Try that with old fashioned quests. Also most have different ways of accomplishing them. And then, if you want a legendary, well, you have to do that on ONE character. That’s only if you want a legendary, many don’t care.

Lying is not something that’s subjective, it’s objective, because it implies intent. You can’t lie accidentally. So you can say they didn’t do what they said they would, without using the word lie. Language is actually my business. i

It’s why I’m so sensitive to it.