If you give someone a mechanic, utility, or item that is effective in all situations or with minimal risk, they are almost always going to use it.
That right there is why they will stop using it. There is almost no situation it is effective in, not without sacrificing damage for better traits and utilities that will help the ranger survive, and once they start doing that it isn’t a lazy “hit 1 button to win” skill.
You and just about everyone else have said you have no problem killing them, so how is it minimal risk when they are dying so easily? This is a gimicky entry level build that will either get people interested enough to look at what else the class has to offer, or they will switch back to some other class because they are tired of dying 6 seconds after their opponent notices them.
Here’s hoping you’re right. The last thing I want is Ranger watered down into a two button build. I can’t shake the feeling that the proportion of people it actually works against will be enough to justify keeping a playstyle that is so easily applied.
It isn’t about “can I beat it” for me. I’m focused on how efforts made to diversify builds on a class is shoehorning it instead because of general effectiveness. I’m not everyone, and I’m sure not everyone carries a reflect/retal/shield.
Its doubtful that the glass ranger will be in the real ‘meta’ (pretty certain not to be imo), but that’s also the definition of ‘meta’. If it becomes something a team has to be ready to be prepared for (like say a PU mesmer), that’s the optimal position. Not everyone has a good answer to being attacked by a longbow ranger in the perfect (for the ranger) setup. When is that ever not true? Those perfect setups are a lot harder to get than you might think.
If you’re in hotjoin, learn to fight htem or spec to deal with it, they’re already becoming more rare. If you’re in a team, and your team can’t deal with htis, that’s on you.
~~~
It’s worth repeating actually, in my experience the playstyle is already becoming more rare. There are fewer LB rangers than there were last week (well except for one game… but that one had a lot of thieves too, think it was the time of night). The ones playing are getting better, and they have to. In most cases a true pew pew longbow ranger is dead meat and a detriment to their team now (as always depending on the vagrancies of the match).
I think the celestial complaints are a bill. People have trouble with somebody and immediately go ‘oh that Engineer/Ele must be in celestial!’, but honestly they can’t really know.
You can beat any player. That does not prove if that players build is OP or not. I beat power longbow all the time, but I also get downed with one Rapid Fire if im out of dodges while fighting another player.
Full range pew pew, rinse repeat.
If you support this /afk braindead balance GW2 is supporting, then maybe you should try using valid arguments.
I think I’ve hit on the real issue here. It’s not OP, it’s irritating. You’re in the middle of a fight, and you get gobsmacked by a machinegun ranger, of course that’s annoying and gonna get people up in arms.
The flip side is it does a great thing in livening up actual gameplay. Having someone able to pass in and quickly smack down that bunker that’s been holding that point is going to shake up tactics some.
Rapid Fire is just a typical high risk high reward skill. One reflect on someone even standing nearby, and that ranger is dead.
That’s simply utter BS. I had a lot of fun with RF lately and people constantly try to reflect it. One button (store weapon) or one dodge, if you already fired a couple of arrows and don’t want to eat them, is enough. You have to be afk to die by your own RF. I do think Op went overboard with his suggestions but do not try to fool people by claiming RF is high risk when it is obviously not. I never downed fleeing people so easily with backstabs.
This. Reflects can’t be used as often as Rapid Fire. If you are a Ranger (no different than Warrior playing Rifle), keep your stow weapon handy or dodge your own attack to cancel and stop your repeat attack skill (or Kill Shot).
Really short cooldown (traited) burst suddenly doesn’t become burst anymore and becomes standard DPS output (i.e spam). Good luck trying to avoid the spam.
You know what’s funny though, players claiming it’s just Ranger Longbow that is the problem. So you avoid and play perfectly the Longbow Rapid Fire and reflect/dodge and use your endurance to close to the Ranger for you to actually attack back (closer than 1500 range). Congrats, you’ve passed the n00b/no lag challenge. Now Ranger swaps to melee weapon and either evades your damage while hurting you in return (aka Evasion Thief) or runs away/evades your damage to restart long-range Ranger advantage again or hurts you with even more burst damage melee skills from GS or offhand Axe (all with pet doing its control or damage). It’s so lol
Nevermind that 1 reflect and hte glass ranger is dead.
The argument is essentially coming down to ’THere’s an attack I don’t like because I don’t have a 100% counter to it!’
Welcome to matchups, maybe you should pick your fights instead of yelling blood for the blood god! and going straight at all opponents expecting to win.
Remove going into spectator after choosing a team in Hot Join and you more or less fix team switching/stacking. The only way to get back on winning team is to remember which server you were on and then get your score back up if there’s even room on that team once you’ve left and rejoined.
Imo it’s the best solution as there is no reason at all to go back into spectator once you’ve joined a match. You can easily scope someone else next round OR whisper them if you’re curious about their build. Even if they don’t answer you, you had the chance to spec them before joining a team.
I can’t see any negative impact from doing this. Then rewards can be adjusted. I honestly think those that volunteer to go to the losing team should be rewarded more than 25 little pvp experience. At least then you get the win plus a nice chunk from being a good sport and going to help the losing side.
This of course is the actual answer, fix the actual issue.
I know it’s the AI problem, but I’d be happy if htey could just make them follow you and go over edges… or go back to GW1 where players can’t do it either.
Hot join doesn’t need better rewards, hot join needs a better structure , like converted in unranked queue with no autobalance but better system to fix 4vs5 (or similar) matches (like ready@queue pop and frozen system)
Soloqueue and Teamqueue needs better rewards, exclusive rewards for ranked matches (seasons and in general exclusive tracks).
How about all modes get equal base rewards, and you get LB rewards (scaled widely) for competitive rank? Win/win then.
The people who are playing hotjoin just for the rewards are the same people who are exploiting the games and making it a terrible experience for new players who actually have an interest in PVP. The exploiting reward farmers will never be a healthy part of the PVP community. If removing rewards gets them to leave, then so be it.
You dont’ remove an incentive to fix an exploit, you fix the exploit. I don’t believe in ‘we had to kill it to save it!’ scenarios.
Hotjoin is a testing area for new builds. Hotjoin =‘s one team outnumbers the other (the majority of the time). It doesn’t show any skill and doesn’t help you learn how to pvp. It shouldn’t reward anything what so ever imo.
Still hasn’t been answered, why not? How does it being rewarded help you at all, or help the people playing?
Rewarding hotjoin gets people into Pvp. That’s why they do it.
It would encourage/reward bad behavior (spectating/team stacking). People do this enough as is for the meager rewards they get now. That wouldn’t get more people into pvp, it would push more away.
You think people wouldn’t do that anyways? People like to win and get stupid about it.
There’s bad behavior around hotjoin, but removing one of the main things that gets people to TRY pvp is not the answer.
In fact, it’s backwards. If you take rewards out of hotjoin then people who want those rewards will go to single-q. They’ll be even less ready, and they’ll be exposed to some of the angry people, who are in my experience more prevalent in the ranked modes.
That will turn people off a lot more than hotjoin team switching, which a lot of new people don’t even notice.
Hotjoin is a testing area for new builds. Hotjoin =‘s one team outnumbers the other (the majority of the time). It doesn’t show any skill and doesn’t help you learn how to pvp. It shouldn’t reward anything what so ever imo.
Still hasn’t been answered, why not? How does it being rewarded help you at all, or help the people playing?
Rewarding hotjoin gets people into Pvp. That’s why they do it.
I never understood why Pve players want better rewards for hotjoin, or why are they trying to farm soloque. If they don’t like PvP, why are they here? PvE pays better anyways.
People always want rewards, and (admittedly as a quirk of psychology) they feel like they’re wasting time if something is unrewarded or is less efficient in gaining rewards.
There are certain things that are far more efficient in pvp than pve (getting weapons from dungeon tracks, arguably maguuma track), but I think it’s mainly a feeling of inefficiency.
High ranked players should ge better rewards, as of now leaderboard rank 1-100 get the same rewards like unranked players.
Hotjoin is a mess, the rewards you get are good enough for the fact that you don’t even need to know what you have to do.
Get good and play rated matches. Not to sound harsh but casual play should not get rewarded any more.
Why not? How does it hurt you if someone else gets crap you don’t care about anyways at the same rate?
Leave the q’s to people who actually want to get into the leaderboard, maybe fewer people will be trying to force themselves in just for faster rewards, which kind of has a negative impact on everyone.
Edit: Should make clear, HJ could have more or not, tiering the rewards is the issue. Make SQ and HJ both 5/2 and you’d get the same positive effect as them both being 10/3.
but once they add another game more, or for general wvw roaming these balance is toxic and vastly overpowered.
If LB ranger are OP what about perplexity engineer, PU mesmer, perplexity thief, fearmancer and all those condi bunker specs ?
I sometimes play a fearmance with signet of spike in 1v1 and people die in few seconds, should we nerf necro ? I mean, it has best Hp in game, many sources of fear, death shroud, it can cast more condition than most classes can clean, there’s no counterplay, it’s OP.
These builds are strong as well, but still they have counter play. EVERY class has access to both stunbreaks and condition clears. There is no counterplay if you cant even REACH your enemy, WHILE hes doing stupidly high damage. The range indicated on Longbow traited is 1500, but its actually much more, this combined with the high speed and velocity of the shots makes it very reliable. Sure you can dodge, but so can the ranger dodge any CC or Gapcloser you aim at them, and even if you keep your dodges for the rapid fire, the AA damage alone is enough to wither you down until the next Rapid Fire is up, all while you have a pet next to you fearing rooting and knocking you down while even doing damage on top.
/facepalm
the only thing I can say to you is L2P, but start with something easy like PvE and stay away from from Ranger NPC because they have LB and LB is soo OP :O
It’s responses like this that make me want to pull my hair out. You literally addressed nothing. All you did is make fun of the guy who brought up very valid points. Do you believe Power Ranger is fine? Then show us why. When I bring up several things that should be addressed, such as adding a tell, bringing a lower cool down etc. and then explain why such changes should be implemented, someone making fun of me just proves my point. If you have nothing valid to bring up, then just keep quiet. “L2p” is not valid evidence for anything except perhaps that you’re under the age of 13.
About the ‘closing issue’, it’s not arena play. Get somewhere else, try to get him to chase you around a tight corner.
If a longbow ranger catches them at max range and hammers them, most people aren’t going to be able to turn that around (barring class interactions), but you don’t have to win every fight to win the game.
Ironically most even remotely good LB rangers know that well. If the situation is bad (a warrior or thief is right on top of you), try to disengage and circle around. A lot of the time the ranger wont’ get away, but thems the breaks.
~~~
If anything it adds something, positional and initiative advantage matter a lot more than they did 3 weeks ago. This is a good thing.
Hot Join should have more basic reward than Structured pvp
US solo que is so mess right now. This can keep newbs out of solo que.
Structured PvP can have some epic reward that need a long term play to redeem, and hot join should gave more basic reward in short term than Structured PvP.
I’m honestly of the opinion that they should be equal, it’s more about style of play;
Team-q has the m ost chance to be real
Solo-q is people super-serious who can’t get a team (whether for time constraints or whatever)
Hotjoin is for people enjoying themselves and screwing around.
I’m kind of glad HJ gets less because it keeps the serious ragers moving up, but it becomes volatile.
OP: “Dear friends. I am a glass thief/warrior. Please nerf rapid fire so I still hard counter bow rangers. Play styles that are good against mine should not be allowed.”
Maybe I"m high or something, but I’ve seen it a few times: People planting life seeds in pvp maps.
The only way I’m remembering to do so is as something a ranger pig can dig up (and that’s not happening). Can someone tell me the simple thing I’m forgetting or just not thinking of?
Checked the leader-board again, not even on the 1000 for both NA/EU.
I’ll just ignore it as usual since they didn’t even play competitvely to begin with, yet generating those “solutions to balance” despite never playing it.
Whenever I see someone QQ about this one trick pony power ranger, they’re almost always those people who never on leader-board, meaning never playing the game competitively, yet they discuss so much about how classes are imbalance.
(And they always make the same excuse of leader-board means nothing. Yes, it does not represent the measure of skill of a player, but if you’re not even on that 1000, which is stupidly easy to get in, it shows that you almost never play a rank battle at all, or lose way too much on every games)
even worse: hotjoin didn’t disappear. the kitten of pvp
I feel the word kitten is being severely overused lately. What makes hotjoin kitten, exactly? Why is a place for people to test builds and get experience with the game before jumping right into ranked play a BAD thing? Why is a place where you can literally jump in, have some fun, and then leave as you see fit a negative experience that is hurting pvp?
Because it’s not serious I think, pvp is SO VERY SRSS!!
I think solo’qers are just mad that hotjoin folks are having more fun than them.
Make it so that one dodge dodges the whole ability. In it’s current form you need to blow an entire endurance bar to avoid massive damage on a skill with a 10 second base cooldown. To compensate, let rangers cancel their channel
maybe it doesn’t need to be nerfed, IDK. Im personally not haing a problem with it because I play thief and they still kitten on rangers. I would just rather see a ch
huh.
so it should be balanced, “maybe,” but you “dont know,” you “dont personally have a problem with it.”
1 – why make the thread then? dont answer that, its retorical, something to ponder. just let the thread die its natural death.
2 – some people have a hard time with the new longbow ranger. mostly necros, guardians, and engineers (mayyyyybe some staff eles). You know, those people who were bunkering on points and not leaving and not reasonably killable unless they got outnumbered. Meanwhile, none of the other classes have significant problems killing the longbow ranger. Imbalanced? No. Decent counter to something that previously didnt have a counter? Yes.
1- Out of pure spite, I will make sure this thread stays on page 1 for the next 6 months.
also since there is a 95% chance it gets nerfed next patch based on community reaction, deservedly or not- I was offering a suggestion that would allow ranger to keep their max damage potential on a target that doesn’t dodge or is rooted, etc. while offering the enemy more counter play. I like these solutions better than just knocking numbers down a notch.
You never really supported this. You think a moderate amount of forum durrhurring will get them to nerf it, and in the next patch to boot?
Given that we’re not seeing many new rangers in the tournament, the fact that regardless of numbers we all know that ‘lb ranger’ or even ‘3 lb ranger’ does not in any way equal a free win on a map, and the fact that these changes are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY in pve for any kind of viability, I find your 95% silly.
Not to say that there’s 0% chance they’ll nerf it otherwise, but the pose ’they’re going to nerf it because people are complaining!!!’ is silly.
What do you do when a Warrior uses volley? A single dodge doesn’t block the whole channel and volley only does about 10% less damage than rapid fire.
If it legitimately needs to be nerfed, focus your attention on things like Signet of the Wild which is a legitimate complaint with this update.
maybe it doesn’t need to be nerfed, IDK. Im personally not haing a problem with it because I play thief and they still kitten on rangers. I would just rather see a ch
I just thought that since everybody was crying about it, it will inevitably get nerfed, so I thought this would be a fair way to do it. Offers more counter-play while allowing the to keep their highest damage potential.
I don’t think it will get nerfed, aNet gets complaints like this every time they do a balance change. It’s sure as rain, and just as meaningless.
I cant think of anything that has gotten this much QQ and not bee nerfed to the ground. Thieves, warriors, dhummfire, crit damage in general, etc. Things get nerfed based on community reaction rather than reason.
What do you do when a Warrior uses volley? A single dodge doesn’t block the whole channel and volley only does about 10% less damage than rapid fire.
If it legitimately needs to be nerfed, focus your attention on things like Signet of the Wild which is a legitimate complaint with this update.
maybe it doesn’t need to be nerfed, IDK. Im personally not haing a problem with it because I play thief and they still kitten on rangers. I would just rather see a ch
I just thought that since everybody was crying about it, it will inevitably get nerfed, so I thought this would be a fair way to do it. Offers more counter-play while allowing the to keep their highest damage potential.
I don’t think it will get nerfed, aNet gets complaints like this every time they do a balance change. It’s sure as rain, and just as meaningless.
Just increase Rapid Fire’s CD, like 12 seconds not traited. Just that. And I’m not even sure wether it should be changed or not.
I’m personally having problems dealing with rangers, but I believe it’s just because I’m not used to fighting rangers and I don’t really know their true weaknesses: previous this patch they just melted, no matter what :P
Said this in the other thread but it’s applicable here, been playing a ranger. The only people I’ve seen actually complaining about it in play this week have been not even taking the minimum effort to play against it.
A thief running away from a fresh engagement without dodging or stealthing at all from melee range is just playing badly, that’s not rapid fire’s fault.
Similarly, if as a ranger you’re standing on a platform, and a guardian runs around out of reach without using any defensive skills or one of the knockback/pulls to clear the ranger off the platform, that’s not rapid fire’s fault.
And yet those are the two people I actually heard complain about rangers in play last night. People wanting to play lazily are their own problem, not the ranger’s.
Some of the people complaining about rangers are really kind of sad actually, had 2 cases last night of complaints.
1 of them was a thief that didn’t stealth and decided to try to escape by running away (!) from me using heartseeker over and over on flat ground. after he was down ,“I can’t wait till they nerf rangers”.
The other was a guardian who decided to run around on lower ground, try to blink to me with out pathing, and then run around some more, “lol no skill class”.
Most of the people that actually complain just kind of wander about letting you shoot them, who’s fault is that?
I’m still getting a “WAAH I HAVE ALL THIS STUFF” vibe.
0th world problems.
The ascended mats you can trash, for the rest, if you don’t care about the other rewards, don’t expect them to spend any resources on implementing an option just for you, because you’re a weirdo.
Edit: Alternative answer: Yer trying to be funny. You being serious and being a nut is the more charitable assumption, though.
Rangers aren’t that difficult to deal with when they are against you. However if your teammates are rangers who goes up in the high place and spams 1 all the time… GG
That’s the fun thing. Any idiot can get some kills with a ranger. Being an effective team member is much much harder, and much much more interesting.
I have never wanted to target a Ranger’s pet. I only want to target the ranger. The clickable pet is just more background noise that I have to sift through to actually find my target. Why would I even want to kill it? He just has another one. I could be far more efficient by just killing the ranger himself.
Just make the game psychic so it knows what you want to target and handles it itself.
so basicly the arguement is that if you’re fighting someone and a ranger sees/attacks you that you are dead? If you dont see the other person targeting you that will be the case with ANY spiker, not just a ranger. ALL berserker builds are a glass cannon thing. This update might have been A-nets way of shaking the apple tree to get rid of the glass cannon thing in favor of a more balanced approach.
Also, just FYI, the damage for RF did not increase with the update, just the speed that the damage is applied to you. Before the update, if you just stood there and recieved all the damage, you still would have gone down.
Maybe there’s something wrong with my build slightly, but I very very very rarely see people go from full to down in 1 RF anyways. It seems to be one of those inescapable bits of hyperbole around the whole thing.
“Dodge!! Evade!!! Invuln!! Reflect!! yadda yadda . "
Or just simply stand behind an object, or find cover in angled terrain.
An attack that completely useless and can be blocked by terrain is not strong.
Yes, let’s pretend that denying anything within 1500 range and LOS of a particular position is a completely worthless ability to have in this game based on capturing points.
Honestly, I know you’re probably having fun with your new Ranger, but don’t just spout whatever you think will keep it the way it is to stifle the conversation.
Oh yeah, you thought wrong, i’ve been using Ranger since launch. I kept it in the fridge because it has been discriminated and i main a guardian. Well, the OP was left out with one solution to avoid the arrows, I’m just pointing it out one more way to dodge it effortlessly. Typical newbies anyway, forever refuse to listen and rage on new changes.
And by the way, if you look hard enough, not ALL capturing points is a total flat surface with no obstruction. For example, waterfall, notice there is a tree there?
yeah, for others, go find out yourself.
I know one! Henge has these weird… stone… things that I can’t quite think of a word to describe.
Yeah that’s all nice and everything, but Overwolf is for windows only, while GW2 is for windows AND mac. It would be better if those features were included in GW2 in the first place so that mac users weren’t left out.
Surely there must be some mac users who know enough scripting to work with htem and set the app up on mac too!
Just a tip, if you want coordination, guaranteed, polish up your social skills and join a team.
The U GAIZ ARE DOING IT WRONG person is universally, and rightly, hated. They have no reason to believe you or listen to you, and it doesn’t even matter if you’re right.
If you would bother with reading his signature you could see that OP is in a pretty well known team. Also seing how he’s more experienced than most people in this game they have a pretty good reason to listen to him. :<
My bad on not reading the sigs, they’re usually garbage so I don’t :p
The point holds though. If you’re in solo queue don’t expect people to play the you want them to. To go further if you try to tell them to do it (the way you think is right), they’ll rightly consider you a kitten and either argue with you or just keep going on with what they were doing.
Corollary: It doesn’t matter if you’re the lead pvp designer of Anet. Most of the people in solo queue have no idea who you are, and even fewer care.
I presume that it’s people that want to consider themselves more serious (or just want more rewards) than hotjoin and (reasonably) don’t want to go through the effort of joining/making a team.
To me it’s the real redheaded stepchild, a halfway point between play-for-fun hotjoin and play-to-be-competitive team.
Just a tip, if you want coordination, guaranteed, polish up your social skills and join a team.
The U GAIZ ARE DOING IT WRONG person is universally, and rightly, hated. They have no reason to believe you or listen to you, and it doesn’t even matter if you’re right.
there is literally no spec that cannot kill a pewpew, why the fuzz?
Its to rewarding for just perching yourself somewhere and spamming AA and 2.
If you’re dying to a ranger doing that, I dunno man.
The whole thing is that you have to go after them. If you catch them, they’re most likely dead meat. If they’re running, they’re not taking potshots at folks across the center.
I run warhorn essentially for OOC uses, I read it as a tradeoff where you lose h2h usefulness to be able to ambush better. the 15 second swiftness is just so useful in the disengage.
Before we got into the booze, played a few ranger games today. random observations (not super high, not super low skill level)
1) the real key is knowing your disengagement skills, this is life and death to a RF ranger. Always be ready to run.
2) This means you’re TERRIBLE at holding points. If somebody’s coming in on you and gets the drop, you’re probably boned.
3) The ways to tell relative skill: Melee and disengagement. If s/he keeps trying to bow you when you’re in on them, they’re your meat. If they either try to evade/burn you down (using sw/dagger) or run like hell (using sword/wh) you might have a problem. I saw a few of the rangers how actually fought using OH axe, I don’t buy it. I’m a fan of hornet sting> call of the wild>run. Even if they chase you (and often 2 or more will chase you in pickup), that’s essentially a win.
4) Did some 1/1’s with an ele of what appeared to be approximately even skill. Fights were slightly in his favor unless I had the drop (no surprise) or had a pathing advantage (even less a surprise).
heh you dont read very well windsagio. i already mentioned decoy a 3 second stealth on a 40 second cooldown. and noone will run torch in any real build.
and mass invis is almost a 2 second cast time.. do you know how easy a 2 second cast time is to interupt compared to someone triggering an evade/block whatever on an instant cast.
if you mess up an instant cast ability on someones evade/aegis/miss whatever.. that means you messed up. if your enemy couldnt interupt a mass invis that means they messed up.
What if F4?~~~
mass invis is the only skill that gives mesmers invis, didn’t you know?
