Guild Wars 2

Arewn.2368:

Pyroatheist.9031:

This would be a fully new functionality to code, and something to remember is that coders are lazy. It’s much easier to copy paste functionality than write new stuff.

I can confirm that it is an industry rule that computer people are lazy and will take the route of least clicks.

And I can confirm that you, sir, don’t know your kitten from a hole in the ground.

Sorry, these horribly ignorant blanket statements can not just be ignored. If you honestly think that ANet programmers, or pretty much any games programmer working for a competitive development house are anything remotely resembling lazy, you really need a reality check.

I bet almost none of the ANet developers have the time to play nearly as many hours of GW2 as you do, because they’re spending that time working on the game instead.

And people wonder why devs don’t spend more time with their fan base. Must feel really awesome to work 70+ hour weeks for months at a time, only to be called “lazy” by people who probably spend way too much time playing a game. (Your game! Which is the kind of irony that probably is what keeps them working.)

I’ve been using a variant of BlackDevils hybrid Phantasm build in sPvP and if you ask me it’s far better then the PU/Condie builds everyone cries about.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Maximised-Hybrid-Phantasm-Build-Roaming

Using his build is a good start even for sPvP, you just have to tweak it to fit sPvP and your own play-style.

Blackwater/PU is losing it’s luster as people adapt to it. It’s a great build, but it depends on an overly aggressive opponents, and lately more and more people “get it” and slow down when facing it. BlackDevils is quite the opposite, pretty aggressive in nature; not as much as a shatter build of course, but not nearly as reactive as PU/Condie.

eldenbri.1059:

I hope that players keep experimenting with PU (for example, I’m wondering if anyone has ever tried a shatter build that uses PU)

I’ve tried a shatter/PU build before, but didn’t work out too well. You just need too much stuff to get decent DPS out of shatters, and end up being a weakened GC that is also soft to Condies, and you just about have to use 1 utility slot on MI. (Another reason it doesn’t jive all that well with PU.)

I’m still experimenting with different PU builds though, but not BW/Condie, but more into power & hybrid builds.

messiah.1908:

read what i have said
mesmers have the ability to be 40% stealth time like thieves like no other class

Sorry, but Master of Timespace is correct. None of what you say makes sense, because the Engineer can attain very high levels of stealth uptime as well, most of it AoE through combos, and can also be built to stack confusion equal/better then Mesmers.

Just as stated above, stealth is not unique to thieves, and neither is confusion to Mesmers. Drawing any conclusions about your class based on those is a recipe for frustration.

When you look at all the stealth abilities that Mesmers got, do you really think that stealth wasn’t a major part of the professions design? Stealth based Elite, Veil, Decoy, Torch #4, and a trait that stealths us at 25% health. None of this has anything to do with PU; you can get plenty of stealth uptime without PU. Almost no one deemed PU worthwhile to spec in for just the added stealth duration, before the buffs were added.

I don’t think most BW Mesmers would even care about losing the extra 1s duration to Stealth on PU, but it won’t fix what the whiners are concerned about. As a poorly built & played Thief, you’re still going to get manhandled by a BW Mesmer even without those few added seconds of stealth. (Without even traiting PU too, IMO.)

I’m going to have to side with the “Trolling build” camp. You could tell that in the beginning of PU/Condie’s popularity people just really didn’t know what they were facing, and often just melted. It was hilarious to watch them basically kill themselves and rage out at you about it, but now it is much harder to find opponents that play that badly against this build.

It’s a strong 1v1 build, no doubt, but you almost never see people just melting anymore like they did a couple of months ago. The fights last much longer, and whenever it becomes 2v1 or worse odds, you’re at best trolling a bit until you Wilson out. Tactically speaking from a team point of view, which is >90% of this game, this build is trash.

BTW, you don’t need PU at all to make the Black Water build work just fine for 1v1s. The stealth up-time w/o PU is plenty of defense alone in a 1v1, and the DPS is actually higher if you put the points in the right place. The boons from PU really just add insult to injury in 1v1. What PU does provide is a load of survivability when it’s Xv1, but unless your opponents are complete newbs, you will not kill any of them anymore! (Ever fought people who rotate attacking you? Suddenly one guy kites and takes almost no damage, while the other attacks to keep you under pressure? Then the first heals and attacks you, and the second kites off to heal up? This is how you never lose a 2v1 vs. a PU Condie Mesmer. It’s virtually impossible to get a kill vs. duo doing that.)

This is what shows you that PU is not really the problem for this build, because you can get Protection elsewhere too and do the exact same thing. What really makes the build viable at all is Torment. Without it, the Mesmer basically can’t Condie burst enough to be viable, but it’s single target and reactionary, so it will always be a niche build IMO.

I’ve long moved on to greener pastures then BW myself. Trolling is fun and winning 1v1s is fun too, but when you realize how bad this build is in GvG you always end up going elsewhere. With a bit more skillful play, you can be just as strong 1v1, but be a much greater asset to your teams as well.

Phantasm builds are overall far superior to BW, and just as Pyro said, they’re also a hard counter to PU/Condie if you have a clue. Bonus!

Also remember what created the PU build in the first place! Nothing has changed for Torch in ages, so if they tone PU down they better beef something else up for Torch, or ANet will just manage to destroy the only niche this weapon currently enjoys. (Not to mention the PU trait, which almost NO ONE was traiting before they added the boons to it!)

Personally, I’d be all for a change to PU to both tone it down a tad, but also keep it worthy of a GM trait, as long as the iMage gets a significant boost in the process to keep Torch alive. Ironically, this would probably make BW stronger, not weaker! ;-)

Iavra.8510:

While being great when traited, the iMage for itself is quite bad. I’m using torch in a power build right now, mainly for the condi remove and decent cd stealth (the blast on reveal does pretty good damage, too) but i rarely use iMage against non-condi builds.

Agreed, but I think that’s the point! Making the iMage direct damage output as strong as other Phants would clearly make traited Torch very OPd, and it would obviously replace all other OH weapons. I believe ANet deliberately chose to “fix” Torch using Traits, so that you get more build variety, because you’re not directly pitting Torch against Sword, Pistol, or Focus in the same set of already existing builds!

Smartly, ANet chose to avoid this “arms-race” between weapons, and chose to make Torch synergize heavily with 2 traits in order to open up completely different builds.

Furthermore, as you stated, The Prestige is also easily one of the most powerful and flexible OH abilities for Mesmers. It’s a great target-drop/break-off ability with the AE Blind/Stealth combination, but as you said it also delivers nice AE damage and an AE burn at the end. (Not to mention the Blast finisher!) When traited it even removes a condition, and can stack up some nice boons while invisible with PU.

Considering that Torch is my OH weapon of choice for both PU/Condie and PU/Shatter builds, I can’t really say it needs any major boosts at all. If it did, clearly I wouldn’t run it over other very nice OHs like Pistol or Sword. Both deliver more damage then Torch, but neither have nearly the utility of Traited Torch either!

I have to reply to some of these pretty common complaints, that IMO are being rather selective:

DavyMcB.1603:

2. Retaliation is crap for condi build while confusion is crap for Power build. Both don’t do enough dmg even with appropriate spec.

I don’t agree with this, the Retal/Confusion part of their attack is clearly designed to be a secondary effect that is useful to both condie & power builds. No matter how crappy Retaliation is for a condie-build, or Confusion for a power build, both add more trickle-damage to the attack.

Taken in a vaccum it’s still fairly lackluster I agree, but no other weapon-based Phantasm can be traited to remove condie’s either. So it’s not a broadly useful offhand weapon, I agree, but the synergy with 2 traits makes it more then viable in several currently strong builds. (At least for WvW and hot-join sPvP.)

As stated though, condie duration absolutely must transfer to the iMages Confusion! I consider that a bug that definitely needs to be fixed! And it could easily be bumped to 4 or 5 seconds duration, or 5 stacks too, without overpowering the iMage or Torch in general. Considering Engies have 2 abilities that apply 5 stacks of confusion (AE in one case!), I don’t really see why ANet is being so careful with Confusion on Mesmers; the confusion class!?

Now that confusion has been toned down, there is no reason not to tweak up the amount we can stack up. It’s not confusion that’s broken IMHO, it’s that we can’t apply enough of it! Especially to single-targets!

DavyMcB.1603:

3. CD is way too long, Prestige is OK, iMage is not. Even if you get double CD reduction, it’s still about 18 second CD. Now, say, you run a power build, your
Idueslit/Swordman/Warlock and even Warden will wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy outdmg iMage. If you run a condition build, even staff#2 which has <=8 second CD will deal wayyyyyyyyyyy more dmg.

Sorry, but this is purely hypothetical. For example, a Warden does more damage if you’re dumb enough to stand there and take it, but in that rosy fantasy world, I could also say that the iMage will do more damage in a Condie build vs. a button-spammer.

DavyMcB.1603:

4. Disenchanter has lower attack interval, remove boon and cure condition at the same time with 20CD base (16 if traited).

Apples and oranges. The Disenchanter does almost no damage either. It’s a utility and thus takes up a utility slot, so fundamentally they only share one aspect, and that’s that they’re both happen to be Phantasms. Any comparison between them, however, is IMO flawed.

I don’t love the iMage, but I also don’t think it’s as bad as many people claim. It is generally compared in a vaccum to the other Phantasms, but of course that’s silly. You have to factor in both The Prestige and the associated Torch trait, even if it doesn’t fit into many/most builds, it’s something that’s there to make more builds viable! And that it does, because traited the Torch is pretty awesome, providing passive Condie removal that we sorely lack otherwise. (Passive as in you’re likely to use the abilities anyway, and thus frequently cleanse stuff off you without deliberately thinking about it.)

The Prestige is also a very strong ability useful both offensively and defensively, and becomes even more powerful with PU. It’s good for both Condie and burst builds, and is strong both in 1v1 or AE. Not many abilities in the game are as powerful and flexible as TP.

So the Torch has a lot of synergies with traits, and thus certain builds. I’m OK with that. I do think the iMage could use some tweaks and bugfixes, such as the CD lowered as suggested above, and/or having it’s Confusion properly respect the Mesmers condition duration, but overall I don’t think it’s a terrible Phantasm at all. (Given the right build!)

Sorry about that, here is the long link:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsfRlwzaqXUTmGb9IipHBnvBckU0avWJF42FC-TsAg0CnIqRVjrGTNyas1MsY9xkAA

I’m still playing this and having a blast.

I agree with you Bunda, especially in sPvP where you don’t have as such gear options, it’s hard to make the old toughness/shatter or toughness/Phantasms build work IMO. (The latter works OK thanks to the perma-Fury trait for Phants, but still isn’t as strong as it used to be.)

I played the PU/Condie build for a long time (considering how long I tend to play a single build) and it is excellent, overall it may even be more effective then this build, but it’s not as much fun either. It’s a very single-target and “whittle them down” kinda build, unless you land Torment on a newb who runs around with it ticking away like mad w/o cleansing it.

This PU/Shatter build is much more bursty “in your face(s)”. It’s definitely a GC build when you get locked down with everything on CD, but as you said, thanks to PU you have a ton more survivability then any other Mesmer GC/Burst build (IMO.)

I haven’t changed anything about the build either. I’m really liking it the way it is. It’s very Mesmery/slippery/annoying to face, and more team friendly then the PU/Condie build as you can lay some AE smack down, especially in ongoing fights over points.

Lastly, for Swiftness, I’ve become a huge proponent of swapping in the Focus when out of combat. I refuse to compromise on other parts of the build only to have swiftness. Before all the nerfs came raining down I always used Centaurs, but now I feel we face some pretty major difficulties making a competitive build, and there is simply no room for trade-offs.

For purely team play the Focus can still be an excellent weapon no doubt, but overall the Warden is flawed due to it’s stationary nature, and really needs traits to be decent, traits that no longer fit into any decent build IMO. Plus the Swiftness it provides really doesn’t last long enough, out of combat at least, considering that you’re putting “Into the Void” on CD just to run a little faster. That’s like running around with The Prestige, Magic Bullet, or Illusionary Riposte frequently down just to run fast for ~12s.)

Once you swap in Torch for a few days it becomes pretty second nature.

Funny, I was considering posting this anyway, but I haven’t played it enough to really be sure about it. So far though, I love it in sPvP and I really dig the stats, and of course the play-style differences to the usual PU/Condie builds. This is a PU Shatter build!

Let’s call it…[drumroll]: The Darkmatter Mesmer build!

(Invisible and highly explosive!)

It’s essentially the same 20/20/30/0/0 build as Osicats PU/Condie (or Blackwater), but swapping some traits and of course gear and weapons, etc. I tried it with staff and the associated trait too, worked nice as well, but I really liked it even more with the GS.

http://tinyurl.com/mbhn4ud

I really love the Crit Chance & Crit Damage, considering that you’re not a pure GC/Shatter build. With PU, a bit of toughness, and lots of stealth, you come out a LOT less squishy then a pure GC/Shatter.

It has condie removal as a bonus from traited Torch, and that’s why I stick to Torch for this rather then a more DPS oriented offhand. (Plus The Prestige is a nice additional AE burst, and a lovely opening move on people…not to mention another getaway card in many cases.)

Ever since I saw Sensotix use the Divinity Runes in one of his videos, I’ve had a hard time giving these up in some of my recent burst builds. It’s so easy to overlook the crit damage on those, and for this build they just fit really well IMO. I can often dish out 4-6k MW shatters, 3+k BFrenzy, plus The Prestige, plus Flame Blast, then disappear into the shadows and leave behind a “friend” to play with while I attack from range.

After playing with Staff a bit, I found that I really needed to be able to CC/catch runners a bit better, and ranged damage too was a bit lacking (too slow) with Staff.

I’ve had great fun with this so far. As compared to a PU/Condie build, the AE direct damage is just nice to have for a change. I’m still quite strong in 1v1 with this, but can also jump into the middle of a group, unleash thousands of AE damage, and then pop back out to safety and attack from range for a bit. Needless to say, that helps a lot with getting higher scores in sPvP.

Excellent list and a tribute to how awesome and diverse this class is!

I get bored pretty quickly with 1 build & playstyle, and it’s amazing how you can completely change your experience when swapping from say a tanky/PU Condie build, to a pure GC shatter build, but have both be equally viable & fun.

I like your tweaks to the standard Torch/Shatter build.

For sPvP I already enjoy the standard Torch/Shatter build (with Cleansing Conflagration for Torch), but I had not thought about using Divinities before to further max out Crit %. Also I usually go with Phant Fury over Blade Training, but last night I swapped them for your choices, and I have to say it rocks!

Especially the Divinities were noticeable. The damage numbers grew considerably, and I had a blast playing it last night! Finished quite few games at the top, usually due to getting Top Kills.

Thanks for sharing!

kaikalii.4198:

I don’t know why this build didn’t get more love when you posted it. I really like interrupt builds, but I needed AoE for point fighting, and you just put them together! I’ve been using it, and I usually finish near the top. Great build!

Only think I did change though was I swapped mirror images for arcane thievery for condi removal.

Yeah I figured I probably (unknowingly) copied someone else’s existing build and that’s why no one was commenting on it. I played it for several days and it can be a ton of fun with the right team, but it’s very squishy if you try to solo with it. When everything comes together though and you’re in a clumped up fight on a point, you can see some insane multi-target damage output, which doesn’t even factor in the damage negation from the interrupts. (And the multi-target vulnerability debuffing from Dazzling.)

It’s hard to pass up Illusionary Persona in a shatter build, but when you have solid team work going, this may be a stronger build for your team then a pure shatter build. As with any shatter/GC build though, it depends a LOT on your skill if you can make it work. (And your teams vs. enemy teams!) At times I was very frustrating playing it when I was on a less competent team, or facing tougher/organized opponents.

In general sPvP I prefer a bit more selfish build so I can 1v1 and 1v2, either a typical Shatter or Osi condie PU build.

Note: The really neat thing about the build to me is that it turns a fairly mediocre single target utility shatter, into a multi-target damage/utility shatter with a vengence! (I’ve had instances where I hit 3-4 people for 2-3k each off Diversion alone!) This basically means you have 3 AE damage shatters instead of 2, and of course CStorm and the Ill. Berzerker for more AE mayhem.

Been playing this tonight in sPvP and it’s been a lot of fun, so I thought I’d share it since I don’t think I’ve seen anything like this.

Maybe it’s just for ganking newbs, I don’t know, but the AE damage is pretty intense and I got a few people asking me what the build was. I was finishing top player noticeably more often then usual, although on the other end you’re really squishy and I’m still trying to come to terms with that. ;-) (I usually play tankier builds.)

http://tinyurl.com/mztueep

The fun combo is going for a tripple Diversion shatter (Imbued), and following up with a 3x MW, and then throwing out your remaining interrupts.

The point of this build is basically very high burst shatter damage, combined with 3 sources of AE interrupts. You have Imbued Diversion, Chaos Storm, and Illusionary Wave to throw out to synergize with Halting Strike. (And Ill. Berserker for even more AE damage mayhem.)

Some experience playing a GC Shatter Mesmer is strongly recommended, or you’ll spend more time face down then anything else. ;-)

I’ve hit people for up to 3k on Halting Strikes, often manage to get 2-3 interrupts in one AE attack, and then adding MW it’s really quite a lot of AE damage.

I would recommend trying an on-heal Runeset for your armor to make the most out of your healing mantra. It fires when you charge the mantra, and each time you discharge one of your 3 heal charges.

For example, I’m using the Rune of Balthazar for an AE Burn off MoH, and I couple it with the burn off The Prestige. Even in sPvP this ends up with a good 8s of burning on anyone in close proximity.

Just an idea. I personally though couldn’t give up PU for HM, despite the fact that I use MoH. (for the above rune but also because during stealth it’s easy enough to recharge one mantra. I personally can’t enjoy true mantra builds in sPvP at least, because with more then 2 mantras the recharging becomes annoying. And don’t get me started about mantras and water! Terrible design, I hope they fix that someday!)

GL!

Oh above build link is a bit wrong in that I actually use Sw/T and Sc/P.

I’ve had a lot of fun and success with this build in sPvP, and very rarely lose any 1v1s. Occasionally some Necro’s just out Condie me when I fight them up close, which is of course what this build is intended for.

Just thought I’d share the build I’ve been playing in sPvP for the last couple of weeks.

The basics are the same as Osi’s excellent build:
- 20/20/30/0/0 using Torch, Scepter, Sword, and Pistol

I changed my trait selections slightly and I use Sig of Dom instead of Veil. Veil is awesome no doubt, but the RuT is kinda annoyingly long and I rarely need another stealth in this setup. Also, by changing the Adept Dom and Master Chaos traits a bit, I get another condie cleanse, which in this meta is always helpful.

The main thing that makes this build more enjoyable to me then Osi’s, at least in sPvP usually fighting over points, is the use of Geomancy Sigils and Balthazar runes on the armor, and thus using the Mantra of Recovery as my heal to increase my condie burst even more.

I go with Sword/Torch and Scep/Pist, and try to start out with The Prestige, cast Torch Phant during stealth, then pop in with iLeap->BF, swap weapon, and as soon as I take even a little damage I pop my first heal…which throws another AE Burn. Being on Scep/Pist now, I either use iCounter or iDuelist depending on if I’m being attacked. (Otherwise the other way around…then Confusing Images at the very end.)

This Condie Burst is pretty intense stacking Burns, Bleeds, Torment, and lastly Confusion…and a good bit of it is AE too, especially if the enemy is killing Clones to boot. It’s a bit more offensive and especially nice when facing 2-3 people, as you’re applying a fair amount of AE conditions while killing your target.

Anyway, here’s the TinyURL to the build, hope someone finds it as fun as I currently do!

http://tinyurl.com/m8asq5l

I’ve been really hating the changes to BF tonight. I’d not been noticing how bad the nerf really hurt this ability, but it’s very frustrating to have to guess whether you’re going to deliver mediocre damage to a few people, or kill yourself instead. It’s not like we have a lot of AE damage options, and now this one has been made a big liability to use with still rather meak damage output.

In 1v1 it’s still “OK” but even with single target Retal damage, you can easily take as much damage as you deal. Versus groups, however, it’s a straight up liability where you’re hitting multiple targets dealing fairly silly damage while taking big amounts of Retal damage yourself.

At the very least the damage ought to be upped a good bit to compensate for the double-whammy nerf to this ability that took it from a great ability all the way down to a rather mediocre one. If not damage, then at least you should be able to move while using it just like other similar (far more powerful) abilities in the game. The one unique thing it had was nerfed, while all it’s weaknesses were left alone.

Overall, I’m still having fun on my Mesmer and I don’t mind most of the nerfs, but I just think that one was just poorly thought out as it’s too frustrating for the mediocre damage it delivers. What makes it even worse is that while Scepter is far better off then before, it’s still not exactly a strong MH weapon either, so our MH options are a bit lacking now IMO.

Heh well Osicat is one of the top Mesmers in the game, and he has good builds of all sorts, all of them viable as he proves in his many videos on YouTube.

You specifically asked for sPvP, and quite frankly you’re very wrong about most of the assumptions you make concerning Mesmers in sPvP. I beat the vast majority of Necros with a very similar build to the one he gave you, and Thieves are a mere joke 9 times out of 10.

The key to the above build is that you can’t hit what you can’t see. When you do come out of stealth, you’re usually loaded with Aegis, Protection, and Regen and can take quite a bit of heat. You have 2 condi cleanses from Torch, and plenty of condition damage output (Torment + Bleed + a lil’ Burning) to overwhelm even the toughest classes if played well.

It’s a fantastic 1v1 and even 2v1 build in sPvP because you have a load of Toughness on top of stealth, and the PU boons to make you a really exceptionally difficult target to kill. I can also escape from just about any situation alive, no matter how bad.

I’ve run into GC Thieves with their supposedly high burst, and dropped them so fast they didn’t even know what had hit them. Only the tankier ones can even stay alive long enough to figure out that I’m not a Shatter nor a Phantasm Mesmer.

Condi Mesmers are fine, in sPvP at least, and so are Phantasm Mesmers and well-played Shatter Mesmers.

The last being the hardest to excel at in the current meta IMO…but TBH I fear a good Shatter Mesmer more then any other profession (save maybe a very good Necro) against the above build. If I’m on my game he has no chance, but if gets the drop on me and I fat-finger at the start of the fight, then you get dropped so fast it makes your head spin. One good shatter+BF burst can take me to like <33% health if I’m not careful to avoid it.

In tPvP I can buy that Mesmers are having issues…and I hope Anet addresses some of our weaknesses there.

5 Stacks of Torment. Enough said. That’s sadly what Scepter is about, and that’s about it, but quite frankly it’s probably enough.

I do hope they fix the speed and flow of the auto-attack and #3 channel, but you can bet your bum it’ll be combined with a nerf to our 5 stacks of Torment. It just wrecks people in 1v1.

I think that was ANets quick fix for Scepter basically. I expect they will improve the other 2 Scepter abilities in the future, and then tone down the Torment to ~3 stacks.

Very nice Osi, that’s a good idea about swapping to staff if you see it’s going to be a bigger brawl. I do miss the survivability of the staff sometimes, but the s/p & scp/t setup is very nice.

Oh and I do agree with you, it borders on silly, but is a very refreshing & fun change of play-style that fits the Mesmer class well IMO.

Don’t forget though that it stacks only in duration, not intensity. So with Retaliatory Shield I generally don’t take it over other things, because in especially the currently popular PU builds you may already be getting it off Chaos Storm, iMage, or other places like traited F2 Shatter, or Leap Combo-Field with Focus Temporal Curtain.

Sure you can just keep stacking it up, but it might be overkill and you’re better off getting some kind of other trait.

Retaliation is pretty nice though, but as stated doesn’t work well against big hitting attacks or of course Condie-damage. (Only procs on application, not with every tick.)

Osicat.4139:

Ok here we go, 20-20-30 spvp with bleeding, clone spammer and s/p + scepter/t. So far Im happy, seen 17 stacks of bleed at bets so far, could prob be higer but ppl tend to die alot so hard stack more.
…
/Osicat

As always, very entertaining. I have been running 0/20/30/20/0 a lot lately, with either Sc/Torch & Staff or going for more interrupt/boons with BI + Staff & GS. All of these builds are tanky condie-builds (<8 PU) with lots of stealth and are hella fun right now.

After watching your video I changed to your build, but I kept BI with +60% Might duration from runes (and +30% Boon duration from Chaos of course), and I have to say this too is a fun build!

I’m feel slightly squishier running your build, but with near perma-Protection and ~2k Toughness, it’s hardly squishy at all. That’s what I like about it, it balances offense with defense nicely, and the condie removal from Torch is very nice as this was a key weakness of my above builds. (With only 1 removal off heal, just not good enough in today’s Condie-heavy PvP game.)

Even with your build I still manage to easily get 9-12 stacks of Might up in most 1v1s, and that means that both POW and Condi damage are putting up nice numbers. I feel that this is a key benefit of these condie-tank builds. A high crit chance is baked right in “for free” and this makes Might work twice as effective when compared to Soldier-based tank build with low Crit chance. With enough Might you end up getting decent enough POW to make crits hurt very nicely even from DD attacks, and with all of the condie DoTs on top it really ads up fast.

The synergy just works very well here to produce quite decent single-target DPS output in a tanky and very slippery platform. It’s a lot of fun in sPvP for point control, and I’ve been getting quite a bit of hate from enemies about it. :-) (No bigger compliment then that! haha!)

Nice video Osi!

Hate to sound like a fanboi, but you gotta give ANet some credit where it is due. First off, there are still plenty of viable builds even after the last patch laid on some nasty nerfs. I think overall they probably have upped build diversity for Mesmers, even if it took the toning down of some builds to make others and new ones more competitive.

Secondly, I have to hand it to them on the boost to interruptions. I only have BI right now, and have been highly skeptical of calling interruptions a viable thing to build around —as in rely on them happening enough to be viable--, but I have to say the more I’m getting into BI the more I’m starting to lean towards the other interrupt traits as well. You start kinda getting the hang of it after a while, and as stated above doing AE interruptions on groups is YUMMY!

Before I felt interruptions were pretty random and hard to rely on, but really we have quite a few means of AE and ST interrupts, and once you start trying to interrupt you will get better and better at it and can start to rely on it.

What Nordic said is exactly my experiences with the same/similar setup as his. I too run tank/condie with Staff & Scepter/Torch and I’ve been able to beat most Necro’s 1v1, although many times it’s very close. The really good ones somestimes just ROFL-stomp me in the face though, stacking a condie burst that I could only dream of, but as stated above we have counters . (I don’t use Arc Thievery but might try it out just for that)

I use PU with 3 forms of stealth and Blink, so as Osicat said, a big part of dealing with them successfully is staying away from them. (Also CA and CS help in a similar fashion)

Serhend.6382:

Yeah iMage could be considered a condi phantasm if any of them is at all. And within the boundaries of mesmer profession, scepter, torch and even staff can be called condi weapons. Staff goes hybrid but you get the most juice out of it -damage-wise- with a condi build.

Exactly. I think it’s a bit disingenuous to only talk about the Phants rather then the whole weapon they’re based off. Seeing them as such you can clearly see that each weapon is meant to provide BOTH the ability to use conditions or pure power. Thankfully if you ask me! The iMage is actually better then most people give it credit for, but it’s impact is just not as directly visible as the others. It doesn’t have that satisfying feeling of PWN about it, but it supports a condi play-style quite well, and at least with PU the weapon it’s based off is more then viable.

As stated above, currently it’s clones that apply conditions most consistently for Mesmers, and it would be sad to have that nerfed to where clones are doing neither any DD nor any condi-damage, just to get pigeonholed into a single fully condie-focused Phantasm.

If you boost the iMage significantly, you’re going to have to nerf something else, because quite frankly Torch is already very strong with PU in a condie-focused build. And the current iMage fits that kinda build very well, because he adds a few more ways to “nickel & dime” your opponent to death without them fully understanding what’s going on. That’s the Mesmer way!

With the Scepters new Torment being as strong as it is, I don’t see the iMage getting improvements anytime soon. I’ve beaten plenty of condie-built Thieves and even Necros as a pure condie Mesmer, so we’re hardly in dire need of more condition DPS output.

I am liking the choices we have now. Scepter is definitely more Condie oriented as compared to Sword, but the OHs are really quite hybrid, as are the 2hers.

Godmoney.2048:

30 into toughness gives you a base of 30% boon duration.

Bingo! That’s part 1. Then get Forge Runes and you get another 20% Prot duration, plus a 10 (now 15) second Protection proc when you go below 50% health, on top of inflicting an AE burn. So even for sPvP you have +50% Protection duration. (And a decent bit of Toughness to boot.)

Part 2 is the new CA. Keep that up as much as possible, and it’ll just keep piling on that Protection.

With 30 Chaos you also get the 3s Prot every 15s when you receive Regen, which of course you get off your Phants with 15 Insp.

As stated above though, it’s also a lot about chaining your stealths while letting your illusions work the enemy a bit, and you’ll quickly start to see Protection stack up nicely.

I am currently playing 0/20/30/20/0 in sPvP and I can honestly say that I haven’t had this much fun on my Mesmer in months! It’s probably the most “Mesmerish” build I’ve ever played, at least how I view the Mesmer.

I am a huge PITA to take down, keep track of, etc. all the while you’re getting chewed up from condie’s and debuffs. Torment is also a big component of this, allowing you to attain adequate DPS in 1v1 to be a threat. I’m no pro, but in general sPvP I haven’t run into many people I couldn’t kill 1v1. It’s rarely a quick demise, but with so much Protection and stealth we can be in the fight for the long haul. (even against 2-3 opponents sometimes…yes scrubs, but still! )

feliscatus.1430:

Yeah, have you guys actually played with this HORRIBLE new chaos armor? I was complaining too, until I tried it.

No kidding, I was coming here to say the same thing. I’m always baffled by how much people resist change for the pure sake of it being different then before, without actually giving things a shot first.

Don’t get me wrong, I hate when patches destroy builds as this one certainly did, but the fact is that despite eating some heavy nerfs, there were some rather meaningful buffs as well.

Look at some of boosts and try some new builds, you might find out that the improvements were better then most people on here gave them credit for:

- Scepter is finally viable, although it still needs a bit of work. (Most of all #3 needs to “tick” faster IMO, and the auto-attack clones could use a boost of some sort.)
- Torch ditto…well with the improved PU anyway. Certainly needs work to iMage, but overall it fits a tanky condie-build very well!
- Overall condition builds have gotten far more viable
- Chaos armor is overall improved, even if Staff took a slight nerf with it. Staff is still one of our strongest options so I don’t see this is a huge issue.

I was very frustrated the first few days after this patch too, but I’ve come to settle on a build that I have to admit has refreshed my interest in the Mesmer entirely! I don’t hit hard anymore, but people melt away from a combination of Torment, bleeds, retaliation, confusion, etc. It all adds up quickly and overwhelms them in the end. I know it has to be utterly frustrating to fight me…and that’s what the profession is all about IMO.

Say what you will, but with condi builds being more viable now, I do see a greater build diversity among Mesmers in sPvP! I still see plenty of glass cannon shatter and phantasm Mesmers out there, and both of them still hurt a ton! And for the first time since release, I’m seeing all weapons being used regularly. (Not just “that one guy once used a Scepter and did fine!” but regularly.)

Lastly, and to get back to the OP, I’ll say that the new Chaos Armor is also more Mesmer-like then before! Sure it’s neat to have on-demand Protection, but there isn’t much anything chaotic or Mesmer-like about that, now is there? The new CA is MUCH more frustrating for our opponents! As much as we can’t rely on getting Protection off of our CA, our opponents can’t rely on their big-hitting attacks when facing a CA’d Mesmer either.

Although this patch was harsh for Mesmers, overall I’m not being a negative nancy about most of the Mesmer changes. However, on this issue I feel it’s pretty much the same situation in PvP that you describe. I haven’t tested the interrupt traits a whole lot, but pulling off interrupts is anything but consistent or easy in PvP, and the reward is still completely lack-luster if you ask me.

I have a hard time fathoming how many classes can deal absurd amounts of damage using simple anytime button-press attacks, and then something as situational and inconsistent such as this is rewarded with what can only be described mediocre damage at best. (In my tests I wakittenting for around 2kish with the damage on interrupt trait.)

That said I won’t claim to be an expert on Mesmers or interrupts and all that. I sure hope there is a viable interrupt build in PvP, but from the sounds of it my experience seem to match those of others.

The worst one has to be Furious Interruption. That trait has been useless since day one, and I can’t understand what ANet was thinking with the latest change to it. Why on earth should I, as a Mesmer, care about a 3s Quickness on a 15s RuT on a GM trait?

Again, maybe I just don’t get it, but it seems like the epitome of a lackluster GM trait.

Why waste dev time on touching it if you’re not going to actually make it useful?

I don’t really have a problem with confusion damage. I think it just needs to last a little longer, and we need to improve some of the means by which we apply it. The main one being Scepter #3, it’s just far too slow of a method of application for what you get in return.

If they sped up the channel of Scepter 3 by 33-50% then it would be more worthwhile using.

Same goes for Torch 5, the iMage is pathetic and we all know it…why is this taking so long for Anet to accept? It’s vastly inferior most others. The confusion it gives is too short for the slowness (once again) of applying it. At least allow our 33% duration buff to affect the iMage that might help a tiny bit, but not much. I like the idea of the iMage being different, but sadly it’s just plain weak.

The best method of application is sadly a iDuelist with a combo-field and the via a bugged (?) trait to ensure it procs every hit. When I manage to get that 8 stack on someone and then throw in some other here or there from Scepter or Shatters, then I’m actually liking Confusion just fine.

It’s just really hard to land that combo on a half-way competent player, and thus it’s usually very easy to avoid getting more then 3-4 stacks of confusion in 1v1. And yes, at that level it’s pathetic meaningless damage.

So IMO the fix really is to improve our means of inflicting stacks of single target Confusion, and leave the AE Confusion the same.

ManCaptain.3154:

As a thief you should have easy time vs a mesmer.

Very good advice in this thread, but I can’t agree with that parting quote. At least in sPvP it’s very few and far between for me, and I’m probably about pretty average as far as Mesmers go.

It’s pretty hard to beat a competent mesmer in 1v1, especially as a Thief IMHO. Every once in a while I run into a way above average skilled Thief who puts me in my place, but for that 1 guy I kill 10 others easily…and quite handily most of the time.

For an aging guy with somewhat slower reflexes, like myself, it’s just a matter of staying away from pure glass cannon builds, then I’m fine against Thieves. A semi-tanky shatter, Immortal, or a tanky phantasm build all do very well against Thieves in my experiences. Against those builds at least, I’d have to reiterate the above advice about stacking conditions. In a pure 1v1, those are the Thieves that give me the most trouble.

Lastly, it should be noted that it’s fairly hard for a Mesmer to escape a Thief, but —as you admitted-- not so the other way around.

The strongest 1v1 Mesmer builds are also pretty weak team builds, and the vast majority of fights simply are not “pure” 1v1s where both players are at 100% health with all toys up! In those instances the Thief has the advantage both offensively (attacking a target at <75% health), and defensively (being attacked while at <75% health).

Zumi.6384:

This build intrigues me. I’ve always wished I could get 20% reduced sword, 20% reduced phantasm and both 15% damage traits in the same build, but alas.

I’m thinking of trying something similar to this, but with the sword offhand, so I’m not sure if it’d be most beneficial to get Dueling IV over Illusions X. I lean towards Dueling just a little for the extra crit percentage/damage.

My question is, do you find yourself doing any decent damage with your crit stats so low? I also hate glass cannons, soI try to get a good balance of survivability and damage.

My own damage is of course a bit lacking from the low crit stats, but the point is that your Phants have perma-fury and thus they do quite solid DPS while you’re able to take a beating.

Also when in Staff mode you can not only tank rather well, but you also will generally soak up some Fury and then my own ability to spike is greatly improved. (I also run sigil of minor accuracy in sPvP to up my critical chance.)

I might try OH Sword with this, as it’s one of my favorite Phants for damage, but I will miss the control aspect of the OH Pistol stun. Maybe switch to Sigil of Domination for the stun…

This is my current Phantasm build that I’m enjoying immensely in sPvP. I personally can’t enjoy glassy builds so I go with Soldiers Amulet. I’ve been a beast with this, including QQ mails from enemies and everything!

http://tinyurl.com/n4dhgpu

(fixed build, had one error in it before)

Solid damage output, solid survivability.

I like the 2 ranged Phants working in tandem. I myself pop into melee range, then pop out when it gets hairy. This way enemies often ignore the Phants until they realize what’s eating their lunch…then they go to clear them, but by now RUTs are back up and more Phants inc. QQ

May well be that someone has posted a similar one, or maybe this is close/same to Pyros I don’t remember as I’ve been tweaking constantly and ended up with this. (His is excellent for sure.)

Snoxx.7943:

- Staff clones do not get an extra bounce (unfortunately that’s what we were hoping for)

Hmm, might want to retest that. <evil grin> Well they don’t from IE if that’s what you meant, but they sure do from regular attacks now.

Snoxx.7943:

- unfortunately, boons are worthless on clones
(might on a clone doesn’t increase it’s bleed damage)

No but Fury on a Clone causes it to crit more, and more crits is more bleeds if you’re traited for that.

All in all this is a big boost to condie mesmers, because Staff clones apply lots more conditions now. The same goes for iMage, it works a lot better since the patch. I think the bounce speed has been upped or something, it’s all just working better for me then before.

So I think this was a condie-Mesmer love patch. Looks like GS took an indirect hit.

Dunno about GS, but Staff is more then fine with this patch.

Condi Mesmer is back with a vengence, and Torch got a nice boost too. Great patch so far IMO. Been playing Staff/Torch condies with PU and can only say that those Staff clones are tearing kittens up now.

In fact, I’m kinda expecting nerfs, though I hope it stays because it’s not really any worse then several other condie specced classes. It’s nice to have that option, and a refreshing change of play for the Mesmer.

I am even starting to like the iMage now. I think they’ve increased the speed on bounces or something, just all seems to work better then before.

I’ve been playing a Mantra Build since the patch, somewhat similar in that it uses MoP & MoR along with RM & MP, but mine is quite different. I’m using GS + S/S, Blink, and Decoy along with Centaurs for speed on heal.

I’m 30 in Dom for the 3x charges on Mantras, and I trade the 20 in Chaos along with 10 from Dueling to get it. (And I get 15% added damage on Phants and 20% dmg on MW traits and the added power.) I also skipped armored Mantras for Fury on the Phants, and I’m using Soldiers so I’m a bit more of a tanky Phantasm build that uses Mantras for healing, spike, and cleansing.

I’m enjoying it very much. I do cycle through MoP a lot to get extra heals mid fight, and since the last patch I really can’t say I feel I get interrupted a lot even w/o factoring in Blink/Decoy. Fact is my Phants are doing the damage and I can run around and add to it with MoP, whilst also healing. Sure there is a short moment where my DPS drops while charging MoP, but the return is a removed condi, a fat heal, and a nice 3x insta-hit damage spike.

I’m definitely hard to kill and hard to pin down, and I can put a good amount of damage on a single target with those two Phants. I might try out Staff, but as much as people hate on the iZerker, I still love it’s cripple on running enemies and it still tends t put out solid DPS most of the time.

Although I lack big spike damage from my low crit chance and crit damage due to going with Soldier runes, I make up for that with Fury on Phants and the added spikes from MoP. (not to mention my higher toughness and 24k HPs.)

I definitely think Mantras have come a long way in the past few patches, although I would definitely still like to see improvements to some of the lesser used ones and maybe more (or improved) trait options. Right now I can’t make much of a case for most Mantras besides MoP w/ RM and the 3x insta-heal from MoR. (Which IMO people are underestimating. The instant part is the key and along with a trait like MP it’s just very very nice now that the charging time for Mantras has come down to somewhat sane levels.)

Yeah I’ve seen some very high survivability Engineers a time or two, and on top of what redslion said I would add Supply Crate that could also have added further healing that especially on a Protected bunker-nuild target would often be enough to keep up with the incoming damage for a few seconds.

So he probably dumped his load to stay alive (also don’t forget the healing/TK reset traits that give most Engineer builds 2x big heals) and once those ran out he then went down pretty fast. (Protection down, all heals down, Super Elixir down, Elite down, etc. then even a bunker build melts to 3 attackers.)

A lag spike also sounds plausible though…

This is very nice, thanks for sharing. I’ve tried other SD builds before, but haven’t used Goggles before and some of the other choices you make synergize very well. I know some Thieves last night musta been wondering what just happened to them.

Very nice burst DPS, best I’ve experienced on an Engie in sPvP. I didn’t have any issues making this build work in team play, just as stated above the pseudo-AoE DPS output really is quite nice in point defense.

atheria.2837:

I am trying the build now and getting torn to shreds in spvp…

As I said, the same thing happened to me and I adapted the build by simply swapping out Berzerker Jewel for Soldiers and it turned into a really decent sPvP build for me. You’re not much of a team supporter, but that doesn’t mean you’re not an effective team member. As Pyro said, if you find yourself in a larger skirmish, find the squishies to send your Phantasms against. Even if they only live for one attack, that’s often enough to do massive damage to a Thief or other burst build class.

The most fun part though is definitely 1v1 and 2v2, or even 2v1 I can often handle quite well depending on class. Oh yeah, I also swapped the Signet of Illusions for the condi-removal Mantra, and this swap makes me so much tougher against condi-builds it’s not even funny. I thinkittenpt everything else the same, though I run Centaur on my armor because otherwise with this build you have zero speed…I can’t get used to that! ;-)

I still have a 21% base crit chance, but of course the Phants have Fury up at all times, so it’s really not too shabby on burst DPS. I’ve really been very strong in 1v1s with this build, although there are some builds that either gave me a run or were a stale-mate. I’ve had Engineers, Elems, certainly Guardians, and occasionally even Rangers and Mesmers who fought me to stalemate or even bested me outright. (Which certainly could be a l2 kitten ue, because I don’t claim to be a god of mesmers/gw2/gaming in general. ;-) )

I’m really enjoying it in sPvP now, because it’s such a nice balance of decent-to-good DPS output and medium survivability.

P.S. And it can’t be stated often enough how brutal the damage off the 2 blocks is, people just don’t expect Mesmers to do this kinda damage in melee. Coupled with a quick swap to MH Sword and BF, Heartseeker spamming burst thieves must be pulling their hair out wondering what just happened to them.

First night I tried this I hated it. Within 30 minutes I was back on my new turret Engineer who is a team play beast.

Then I gave it another shot the next day and loved it. Personally I had to swap to Soldier jewelry because I was just too squishy using zerker and coming off a bunker Engineer and also a variation of your Immortal Mesmer build. I guess you get used to not being such a squishy and it was irking me getting destroyed so quickly.

Swapping to that I started having a blast. I still have 21% base crit chance, plus Fury on Phants, plus the up to 250 extra Prec off the weapons sigil. Phants are still doing massive damage, but I can take a beating for almost twice as long as before. (I’m old and probably a little slow on reaction times, so maybe that’s why I just have to have some toughness and HPs to make a build work for me.)

I did run into one Guardian that I couldn’t touch. He didn’t do much to me either, but somehow my Phants weren’t scratching him and he did a good job of quickly clearing them out, but that left his attacks against me also very ineffective. As soon as he’d focus on me, I’d get Phants back out and he was taking damage, so he’d go back to killing the Phants and healing up and I couldn’t do much to stop it.

I also took the condi-clear Mantra and it’s amazing at clearing condi’s on top of the heal removal in this build. This also made a huge difference in the viability of this build in sPvP and was much more useful then the Illusions Signet IMO. I’m running into far more condi Thieves lately, and this Mantra frustrates the crap out of them and any other condi applying build.

The core of this build is really nothing new and I played something very similar long ago already, but it’s always the finer points that Pyro comes up with that make his builds a little better. They always inspire new ideas to create a variant of his build that better suit my own play-style, and that IMO is what it’s all about.

Don’t be cookie cutter and expect to be just as good as Pyro, you have to make any build work for you and your own style of play, and only use his builds as a template to start from.

Using this build verbatim I had a horrible experience and was losing to any burst class because I imagine my reaction time and button-pressing skills are probably not as good as Pyros, but as soon as I swapped to be a bit more tanky I was having a blast.

It is a very different play-style then Immortal, and Shatter, but I wouldn’t call it passive or boring. It still requires a lot of skill to use both your offenses and defenses wisely, because as has been pointed out there are a good amount of counters. When you waste Phan timers while being blinded, you quickly see your DPS output vanishing…but when it’s on, they really can lay some smack down.

Lastly, while not a team-oriented build, in sPvP at least it performed quite well for my teams. Again if used wisely, the DPS output of this can be very effective for your team, but I agree that the larger the fight gets, the less effective your contribution as the phants just die too fast to matter. However, I was scary effective in 2v2 and even 3v3s, because the enemy just didn’t know how important it was to clear the Phants rather then trying to kill me. (And the blocks too are VERY punishing in those fights, they hit rather hard and as stated by someone above can be nicely combod with a shatter if your phants just got killed off.) So for taking/holding points this build worked out better then I expected, especially if I had a team mate or two with me facing close to even odds.

Thanks, nice build and a refreshing change from Immortal. It’s nice not to have the long wind-up that sometimes makes Immortal a little frustrating.

From a PvP perspective I’d have to say that Deplayable Turrets is already the perhaps most powerful turret-trait there is, especially for being only 10pts, so it really doesn’t need anything. ;-)

It makes a world of difference in PvP if you place your turret at your feet, or 1000+ units away where you’re forcing your enemy to break off to kill the turret.

I agree that most of the other turret traits could use some further boosts, but DT is fine as it is. Especially the Auto-Tool Installation needs to have it’s frequency doubled, then it might be remotely worthwhile.

I’ve been running turrets since last patch and my build doesn’t include anything but Metal Plating and Deployable Turrets, both of which are 10pt traits. /shrug

I think the update was very well done, almost perfect. I went from never playing with turrets and being overall not happy with my Engies performance, to having a great deal of fun and now playing mainly the Engie.

I’m in a tanky p/s build using 2 turrets and the elixir gun. Fun times! I can highly recommend trying it out.

+1 on the people mentioned, and as for a name the obvious would be “Mesmerized!” ;-)

Which is the same thing as saying “mind-kittened” and thus fits perfectly.

Agreed. I’ve been trying to get into the game for the last hour, everything else as far as my connection works just fine. Now even the log-in server is hanging for up to 3-4 minutes, then even if I manage to get in I immediately lag out.

It’s been getting progressively worse the past few days, but now on the weekend it’s just toast. Unplayable.

Yeah that is actually one of the few criticisms of this build, but also makes it the nearly perfectly synergizing build that it is (for what it is), is that there is little to no flexibility with the utilities. All 3 are needed and still you often will find yourself needing more clones.

This is all just my personal opinion, and ultimately the important thing about any build is that it fits you and your playstyle, but…

1) I don’t think Retaliatory Shield is worth it, even with glitching Mimic, because it’s pretty situational to get it off. Furthermore, you’re not really tanky enough to make good use of Retaliation. 15k HPs is too low for being bunker/tanky, unless you have a lot of cond removal, which you don’t really have. (Arcane Thievery is neat, but long CD even with MoM.)

2) As a general caution, I think for sPvP you’ll be a bit disappointed with Confusion damage if you’re relying on it as a significant source of your damage output.

3) I think you’re lacking vital utility tools, most glaringly Decoy. I don’t think you’ll find that especially Signet of Illusions is worth giving up Decoy for. The HP boost to your illusions is sadly applied on a ~10s pulse, so sometimes you have to wait up to 10s for a summoned illusion to receive that buff, but realistically most illusions won’t live that long.

4) Scepter in general is fairly weak in especially sPvP, and for an OH Sword doesn’t really fit your condi-based build IMHO. The Sword Phant is more Power oriented, and the block is IMO too short to work well with Ret. Shield. Consider Torch for OH the blind/burn is very nice, and for a condi build even the phantasm is not bad. (Not to mention the invis part of The Prestige, which helps being more of a PITA. ;-) )

So at the very least I’d ditch SoI for Decoy, change Ret. Shield to Phant Fury (more crits equals more bleeds!), and change OH Sword to Torch. (And personally I’d also either change Mimic or Arc Thievery to Mirror Images…yes even for condi build I love being able to pop 2 Staff clones instantly)

If you want to stick with the block/retaliation thing though, you should maybe try out the Guardian Runes to see how that “burn on block” proc works out. Might be worth losing a bit of Cond Damage over if you plan to block a lot with Mimic, OH Sword, and MH Scepter.

I personally don’t enjoy condi builds in sPvP, because Confusion damage is just plain terrible and unreliable in sPvP, especially when you face smart players 1v1.

GL! And have fun!

No cuz link is broke! :P

On a more serious note, I don’t like the lack of Decoy, and I’d trade Deceptive Evasion over that 3s Retaliation on Block personally. It might work OK if you get it to work with quirking Mimic, but I’d rather stick with Focus for the utility & mobility. Which brings me to my last gripe, neither Focus nor Centaur Runes means SLO-MO…tried that before and hated it.

My favorite past time is catching runners with Into the Void, or pulling people off ledges into a feeding frenzy below. That on top of Swiftness, ~14s Retaliation, and general combo-field goodness makes Focus a pretty hard thing to give up. (And the Warden isn’t exactly bad either…especially if you park him in the aforementioned combo-field.)

For more spike damage in sPvP I instead ditched Chaos completely and put 20 into Dueling for Blade Training and Deceptive Evasion. The rest is the same as Pyro’s, but with 5% Accuracy Sigil on Sword, and Lyssa runes. This gives me 29% chance to crit on Blurred Frenzy + MW, and also makes the Fire Sigil viable for my OH for even more spike damage.

The Lyssa Runes provide a nice extra counter to Conditions as well as a little more Prec, and with 23.5k HPs and 1560 Toughness I actually still feel pretty tanky for a Mesmer. I still use the Retaliation + iDefender quite a bit, but I also have the option to shatter at will with DE for lots of clone creation.

It’s certainly not the damage of a pure glass cannon shatter Mesmer, nor the tankiness of Pyro’s build, but something nice in between. Works for me, having lots of fun with it.

Haven’t really had any issues with them using a variation of Pyro’s tank/retaliation build, it has so many counters to Rangers it’s usually almost kinda sad to watch them kill themselves so quickly.

Maybe I just haven’t run into a good regen Ranger yet, but I haven’t found many Rangers in general that were particularly hard to beat 1vs1 in sPvP with that build.

So maybe this is just a problem for a shatter-centric build. In that case I think you’ll find that there is always someone out there who has a build on some class that beautifully counters your own class/build combination.

Pyroatheist: “This build has 0 weaknesses with the exception of a phantasm mesmer, and I’ll take those odds any day.”

Definitely, since overall it’s not a popular build since it can be very frustrating vs. many/most other classes. I’ve run into this too, but I thought I probably just lacked skill to beat the phant Mesmer, so it’s nice to see this is something others have been having issues with as well.

I agree though, not worth changing the build over. As you said, disengaging is easy and a single fairly unpopular build on one class is not worth worrying about. ;-)

I guess in the name of balance though it’s worth saying that this build does have many other weaknesses, such as fairly lacking team utility, lacking burst, etc. It’s mainly in 1v1 or 2v1 where you can say it has very few weaknesses vs. other classes that can not be overcome by skillful play.

Look at the Immortal Mesmer build and (almost) never lose to a Thief 1v1 again, certainly not the FoTM ones. I’ve had fight with some decent ones that have lasted minutes using that build, and usually ended up with them hightailing it once they realized they can’t just burst me down.

I loathed Thieves from not just my Mesmers but also my Engineers PoV, and was dead certain they’re grossly OPd, but once you tank up on either class you start realizing that the imbalance isn’t as obvious as it seems. They run out of gas very quickly, and usually that means they have to run from the fight.

Now the fact that they can escape with near 100% certainty is still a valid complaint against Thieves, but since using this build I’ve had to admit their burst isn’t as bad as I thought. Once you play that high survivability build for a while, it also gives you a chance to learn how to deal with Thieves better in general, and that means you can go for a less tanky build and still do better then before.

GL!