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Chronomancer Changes for Next BWE

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

It was possible for a Chronomancer Condi Shatter with the old IR to do F5 -> F1-4 -> F5 -> F1-4 and get 16+ stacks of Torment and Confusion with no setup required. The new IR requires setup at the beginning of the shatter chain and some work to sustain it, which means enemies have the opportunity to actually play around it instead of just eating all those Condi stacks within a second or two (most likely while stunned by CS).

That was definitely not as easily possible as you claim, due to the .25s CD between shatters. So most likely we’re talking about first getting at least 1 illusion up to even have the time to get 4 shatters off in a row before F5 resets the time-line.

Secondly, in order to stun with CS you need to have Domination. In order to stack Torment & Confusion you obviously need Illusions, and of course to get F5 you need Chronomancer. This build would be heavily flawed as Domination is pretty useless for a Condie-focused build. You would be missing out on everything Dueling has to offer, literally to get a 1.25s stun on your F3. Not likely… So the Stun part is a bit far fetched.

Remember also that MtD was just heavily nerfed by 50%, and it’s now pretty plain why they nerfed it; Chronomancy. Kinda sad as they chose to destroy build diversity, forcing you into Chrono + Illusions to play Condie Shatter…and now the nerfs keep rolling in anyway, not because MtD was/is OPd it never was before not even with 2x Torment, but rather because Chronomancy in conjunction with MtD is maybe too much. (IMO this is hardly proven by a single BW with people playing new builds to test stuff, and as is generally the case ATM not focusing enough on Condition Cleansing.)

Sadly, this is exactly what I expected, and is par for the course for Mesmer balancing decisions.

Especially with the IR nerf, you will absolutely have to have DE for any Shatter build once again, which is basically all builds now more so than ever. This means Condition shatter has exactly one viable spec, Duel/Ill/Chrono. Hands up for build diversity! GG!

Compared to Burn Guards/Eles/Engies even the BW1 Condie Shatter Chronomancer was at best competitive. You’d have to be AFK to eat 8 shatters in a row, that’s a full 2s minimum execution time, and each Shatter individually does very very little outside of F2. It’s just 1 Torment and 1 Confusion for F1, F3, and F4. Compare that to every one of the above professions/builds hitting you with 5+ stacks of Burning quickly and pretty much ad nauseum.

Once this supposedly OPd BW1 Condie Chronomancer dumped his F5 load, he’s got a long wait before he can do that burst again! Especially now that self Alacrity is also nerfed!

It’s once again looking like we’re heading for being over adjusted, as multiple things are nerfed in the same iteration, without any reasonable amount of testing going into it. So far we’ve really never seen an “un-nerf” that I can think of. Also, as usual, the nerfs roll in faster then you can say “nerf!” and of course only for Mesmers.

It’s not the 5k+ Burning ticks that have ANet riled, it’s the Mesmer Torment and Confusion! lol! Nevermind that BOTH of these Conditions have innate counters to cut damage by at least 50% without doing anything at all, totally UNLIKE Burn, and yet we’re always rushing to nerf the Mesmer without giving anyone chance to adjust to an emerging meta with huge counter-options available.

Never mind that all 3 of the Burn-oriented professions are much tankier in nature, and can all 3 “abuse” Celestial to do both strong Condition & Direct Damage, due to their high sustain and ability to stack Might. The Condition Shatter Mesmer is totally pigeonholed into a single specialization that leaves him quite vulnerable. (No realistic hope of using Celestial for a decent mix of survivability and damage, when factoring high levels of Might, which you basically can not achieve in that build. Also no Stealth/PU is possible, and no tanky Chaos either…not without giving up DE, which with IR will be absolutely necessary for Condie Shatter.)

Sorry this turned into a rant, but the more I put 2 and 2 together, the more it irks me where this is headed for Condie Shatter and Mesmers in general.

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

Chronomancer Changes for Next BWE

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Quite a pickle here in two cases!

Great points are being made on both sides surrounding WoG!

My opinion would be to:
1) Keep the float ONLY if we can also get some other CC on one or more of the ticks before the final one. I personally don’t buy “no one will EVER see the float!” arguments, but the way it is it really is underwhelming for an elite. It’s too easy to avoid. I think the 2nd tick should pull, and the 3rd float.
2) Failing that, I’d rather have what Robert proposes. It sounds like a lot of fun for interrupt builds if nothing else!

Great points are being made on both sides for IR.

My opinion on this tends to side with the people who are worried that nerf to IR could potentially kill off build diversity by making DE once again a must have trait. With a much greater emphasis on shattering that Anet has forced on us recently, I am worried that making DE a must-have trait again, will once again mean only one truly competitive build for Mesmers.

Maybe I’m paranoid, but that’s how it’s been for a long time, why wouldn’t I be worried about it? We’ve hardly even had a chance to experience life without DE, before having the rug pulled out from under our feet again and potentially returning to this blatantly bad design we’ve suffered under for the better part of a couple of years now!

I can live with a very short CD on IR, I’m talking 2s max, but I also see some good points made in favor of the 2-illusion rule. Still, I have to say I believe the 2-illusion rule is unintuitive, unreliable, and basically strongly favors DE builds whom can more easily get those 2 illusions in order to reliably proc IR.

The “Keep It Simple Stupid” principle has got me thinking that a 2s ICD is the better route. It fixes the problem we’re trying to address in a simple and intuitive way. It prevents shatter spamming while providing reliable & intuitive clone production.

With what Robert proposes we’re never going to know if this trait is working for us or not, especially in group fights it’ll be so hard to gauge the benefit of IR! You will get frustrated not being able to rely on IR to provide added shatter fodder, and IMO chances are really high that you’ll opt into one of the other 2 excellent choices that IR competes with.

With either Improved Alacrity or Danger Time I know exactly what I’m getting, and both are very powerful abilities. If you change IR as proposed it’ll mostly serve as an augmentation to DE, potentially killing build diversity, or doomed to be an unreliable trait that few people will take over the other two options.

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

[Summary] Updated chronomancer feedback

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Wow, a lot of silly unnecessary self-nerfs being proposed here. Putting a limit or ICD on Chronophantasm would kill this GM. Finally we have a very non-DPS oriented line that can compete with Dueling/DE for adequate illusion generation, and people want to get it nerfed so that we all go back to the comforting warmth of the Dueling line being a requirement in all builds?

The Daze on the Phants is enough, it at most could use a 1/2s duration increase, but even that is IMHO not really necessary. There is plenty of counter play with the 1s delay.

It is way way too early to be talking balance anyway. We saw all of a couple of days, mostly the blind leading the blind, no one had time to adjust to all the changes that fast. Half the elites weren’t even in yet, so how can you judge anything to be balanced or OPd?

I was positively surprised by the Shield and the #4. I expected the same clunky block mechanics that cripple OH Sword #4 and Scepter #2, but these blocks actually work a lot better and do provide noticeable defense in small-scale fights at least. The blocks were fast and reliable, so was the Phantasm generation…very smooth, well done!

Yeah the #5 has issues, but is also very powerful. Alacrity seemed nice, at least for myself. I didn’t test in in teams, but I can imagine it’s nearly unnoticeable aside from the green telling you that supposedly something cool is happening for a second or two. ;-)

I also can’t fathom why anyone would want to nerf slow!? Really!? It’s not a damaging condition. It can be cleansed! Plenty of counter play between the usual hard defenses, the new Resistance, and cleanses. Again, no need to touch this until we have the chance to evaluate it in a finished HoT and not a short beta weekend.

The F5 mechanic was a bit strange I have to admit. Without illusions it’s very very short duration, and very hard to get much of anything in there aside from of course an Elite, usually the most impactful thing you want to blow of course. With just 1 illusion you have plenty of time to get a “face-roll over F-keys” combo off pretty easily, including blowing Time Warp.

So I see the issue that either our Elites will be nerfed, cast time increased, or F5 is going to have to be changed to exclude elite’s all together. I am surprised it made it this far like this. I don’t even want to say it’s OPd, it’s just counter-intuitive to the design of Elites, and sadly it also shackled the coolness of Continuum Split and with the the whole appeal of the Chronomancer. I would prefer to have Elite’s excluded and the base duration w/o illusions to be made at least 2s, then ~1s per illusion after. I just think that would make this ability more usable again, and it is kinda the defining ability of the Chronomancer.

This would also then open up the possibility to improve the unfortunate circumstance of Gravity Well, which is definitely underwhelming at the moment, but also obviously was balanced with F5 in mind. I don’t see how anyone thought it was a great idea to change 2 pulls and a float to NO pulls and a float, but obviously there needs to be a pull on the first or second tick, or at least the Cripple that the Calamity Well has. I also agree that for an Elite Well, it’s radius should be a bit larger than the others.

The CD could certainly be increased more as well at that point.

Overall, I liked what I saw and I hope they don’t waste time & energy on balancing until they get all of the classes Elite’s in. Totally futile to balance like that, with so many unknowns, and so little exposure to the masses.

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

Easy Mantra Solution

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

I like Mindblossom’s idea, but I would change the “instantly” to still having to wait out the CD, but entirely in the background. No need to manually re-charge, it would simply run down the CD as it was doing for a short while there, but all that happens at the end of the CD is that your stacks get reset to maximum.

Then if you use that stack, you re-trigger the CD as normal. So it’s a QoL improvement for Out of Combat only, but you can’t abuse it to get a free recharge.

Malicious Sorcery ... A QoL Trait?

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Let’s be honest, most people simply hate dying to conditions and will always cry OPd when they didn’t bring cleanses. We’ve seen this time and time again. You can insta-gib people with direct damage, and people will complain too, but conditions give this frustrating slow death when all your cleanses are down. You don’t think “hey it’s ok, this is how condies must work to be balanced, I deserved that death because I didn’t pack enough cleanses. Fair! GG!”

No, they’d rather lament. They don’t want to give up their pew pew power builds, so they’d rather cry for the condie classes to be nerfed to oblivion. Then we can all roll Eles and be done with it. (Well after we nerf conditions on Eles that is.)

Back to OP.

I fully agree of course. With MS the Scepter is almost competitive to Sword. The AA is still weak, but almost tolerable. The #2 is still clunky and unreliable, hugely telegraphed and thus easily avoided, and doesn’t provide nearly enough defense for a blocking skill. The #3 is nice. Nuff said. They did a good job on it with the reduction of the ramp-up animation, the 6x hits, and with MS it really applies it’kittens very fast. I am seeing significant improvements in being able to last 4-5 Confusions on average, rather than 2-3 before.

I agree though, this is really just how the Scepter should be untraited. It’s still not as good as Sword is for Power builds, but heck you have no real alternative for a Condie build. Sadly. I was so looking forward to Confusing Combatants allowing Swords or even GS to be condition weapons. (But I imagine GS Clones killed CC. )

Yeah with MtD gutted, they could make MS a little more GM worthy by revisiting the concept of adding a bonus to moving damage on Torment. They had it set a bit high at 50%, but a 25% increased damage while moving for Torment would really fit this GM well and would relieve some of the heavy-handed MtD nerf.

This would provide a solid alternative to Ineptitude IMO, augmenting your Torment damage, rather than throwing out more blinds & confusion.

Possible Stealth Nerf

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Actually, I was messing around with the idea of tanky build yesterday fighting the test NPCs. The build had both the pDefender utility and MD. There were times where I would have 2 pDefenders up, and I would swear I didn’t summon either one of them.

I think there might be a bug with the CD if you use the utility. This was just last night, a mere 10 hours ago, so I doubt anything has changed. I didn’t really peg it as such, but now that I’m reading this I’m wondering. I definitely got the feeling on 2 to 3 occasions that there was an extra pDefender. I was so busy with other testing though that I just wrote it off as not paying attention to my CDs, and probably it was just that, but who knows I could see a problem with the CDs interacting with each other. (The utilities’ CD wearing off, might also reset the MD CD?)

Could be onto something though, but as Fay said it would clearly be a bug that Anet has every right of fixing as it’s clearly unintended.

Yay more nerfs! /dance

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

@Windwalker
Would you now recommend malicious over Ineptitude for PvP condi build?

Let’s say that is at least a tougher call now than before. Ineptitude is pretty decent trait, but MS is definitely pretty nice now as well. Between the 6s on your #2, a noticeably faster AA, and the machine-gun #3 this trait almost makes Scepter a decent weapon.

Sad thing is, the 15% attack speed increase shouldn’t be a trait, this is what the weapon simply needed to be remotely competitive.

I think a case can be made for both now. I really dig the #3 in a hybrid build. You can easily have it deliver ~3k damage, while also applying 6 stacks of Confusion and with ~1400 Condition Damage that hurts significantly too.

Even in a Power build it’s nice, but still doesn’t outshine Sword’s BF. If they only fixed our clunky blocks to be actual plain full 1s blocks with insta-summon Clones, then Scepter and OH Sword might have a chance.

told you so

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Awesome Mesmer patch this has turned out to be:
1) MB worse off than before
2) MtD worse off than before
3) HM worse off than before
4) Some CD reduction arguably worse off than before

Anyone get the feeling the wrong things are getting nerfed, and we will still get hit with CS & PU nerfs, and with a little “luck” (Memser style) these 2 will be worse off than before too!!!

More knee-jerk nerfs incoming!

Oh HoT will be so awesome, we’ll get to see in what creative ways they’ll nerf Chrono into uselessness 2 weeks after release!…or maybe even before it ships!

[PvP] In The Lab: Phantasm Mesmer

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

I played this sorta build shortly after the patch. It is indeed basically a Phantrupt. I would strongly suggest Sw/Pi & GS, as much as I know you love the iSwordsman, I feel that even in your video it was often clear the GS would have served you better. (IMO!)

I also don’t agree that the Swordsman hits harder then the iZerker. If the iZerker crits on all 4 attacks it is in my experiences (and tests) the highest damage Phantasm short of the iWarden. Also, that cast-time difference is so pronounced! That extra 1/4ths of a second can seem like an eternity. I just feel the Swordsman is extremely unreliable and dies too much.

The Pistol is a solid Phantasm on an almost ludicrous CD in an interrupt build with DD. I don’t love the long attack either, although it does help that it continues to hit people in stealth, but it’s really the CD reduction on Magic Bullet that ends up making this OH so tempting. MB has always been nice, but the CD has always been too long. Now with CS and DD you have a really strong ranged CC option on a low CD if you get those interrupts in.

Definitely a fun build, but you had an issue with Condie cleansing. I think changing Illusions for Inspiration would solve that, and make you much tankier in the process.

Dom/Duel/Insp with Sw/Pi & GS, Marauder, Centaur or Pack, HM + MoR + MoD, Decoy, Blink

Nasty PvP Phantasm build! Good sustain & cleansing, 2 strong Phants, solid ranged & melee damage, decent PBAoE damage spikes, very strong interrupts/CC, good mobility.

Yay more nerfs! /dance

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Yeah RIP Mantra recharge, that was really a great QoL change. They should have thought up some other way to better balance it.

Malicious Sorcery is great now, makes the #3 hit like a darn machine gun, and the AA too is slightly less annoying.

I think the CD lowering on MoD was a bone in exchange for calling the Mantra recharge thing a bugfix. I think they wanted to try it out and see, and decided it was too much.

Overall it’s a decent patch…could have been a lot worse. The real issue will be when more nerfs hit, then these relatively minor nerfs would have been unneeded but will still haunt us. That’s life as a Mesmer…gotta roll with the punches.

10.000 hour rule, how far are you?

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

3,758 hours on mes.
No afk’ing – never been into LA role playing
One map complete
Two fractal backpieces
The rest pretty much boils down to WvW roaming and PvP.

That about sums it up.

Oh good point, I failed to mention that my paltry 1100ish is absolutely 100% PvP time. I literally don’t do PvE at all.

10.000 hour rule, how far are you?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

That 10000h would amount to well over a year of doing nothing but playing the game 24/7. So I’m not sure I’d want to admit to that even if it were true, because that would mean that I spent 1/3rd of my life these last 3 years playing GW2. ;-)

Just a bit over 1k in almost exactly as many days played. So I average about an hour a day. I feel semi-competent until I run into one of those competent ones, then I feel pretty scrubby. ;-)

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

Condition Mes WvW

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

All things being equal, you should have your hands full with 1 opponent of your caliber. Winning 1 v 2 very occasionally if your opponents made mistakes and you didn’t.

Oh I would agree, but in my experiences this is the case. I have run into players of pretty much every class that can school me like no one else ever has. These people are definitely better at their class then I am at mine, no doubt, but it clearly shows that just about any profession is able to be built in a way to be a strong solo roamer.

I think this last point can’t be stressed enough!

In WvW you often fight very suboptimally specialized opponents, whom most likely are only engaging you because they have a numeric advantage. They’re used to zerging it up, and not fighting small-scale. This is why you very often fight and even win 1v2 or 1v3 battles in WvW, but you can do this on just about any profession if you’re built for small-scale, and they’re not.

We often like to refer to these players as being bad, and to a solist kiter/juker they are. They’re not built for it, nor are they experienced in it. Look at that one video with the Team Speak thing, are these players really that bad? Yeah! They were like fish on land. They seemed to be reasonably experienced in WvW as a whole, but probably mostly the Zerg vs. Zerg and PvE aspects of it.

Once they ran into a semi-competent soloist, they indulged him in his game even though they lacked experience and were ill prepared for it. Heck they clearly had rarely even seen (or given notice to) Mesmers before, they knew literally nothing about the class. (And conditions in general, which is why they had no Condie clears. Mostly useless in zerg vs. zerg!)

So it’s a bit disingenuous to draw the conclusion that a solo player beating 2-4 others means he’s playing an OPd profession/build, or that the 2-4 are all bad. They are just bad and/or unprepared for small-scale PvP, especially in a kiting/juking type of environment where it’s very easy to underestimate the solo player.

Condition Mes WvW

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Then again they beefed up Confusion damage in general (but we’re definitely the kings of confusion now), Scepter #3, and Chaos Armor with traited staff, and added some new Condie traits like Ineptitude, Blinding Dissipation, and Mistrust.

As much as the MtD nerf was knee-jerk and a bit ludicrous in light of Burn-oriented classes often doing MUCH higher burst damage the us, overall I have to say that in WvW at least Condie Mesmers are more than fine.

I had the displeasure of running into a well played Burn Engie using Flamethrower and Pistol/Shield. 3.8k Burn ticks…ouch! He did well in waiting to burst until late into the fight, and got me hard. I’ve seen this with some Guardians and Eles too, as well as the rare Condie Ranger who can put some pretty absurd Bleed, Burn, and Poison bursts on you. (With 25% extra damage on poison, even Poison can hurt a lot…especially when you get 8-9 stacks of it within a very short duration.)

However, we tend to outshine most of the above in AoE conditions combined with stealth of course.

And hating on PU in WvW is just silly. Why would you handicap yourself and not use what your class has been given, especially when it’s in an environment where as a solo roamer you’re mostly facing 2-3 enemy players, or of course getting chased halfway across the map by zergs.

I am kitten. Wvw video by Obsession.

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

/facepalm.

The “it’s the Internet” and “we all have different conceptions of morality” line to defend your point? Really? #logicalfallacies

If you haven’t figure out yet why some moral concept like “don’t do to others what you wouldn’t want done to self” are more universal and a keystone of society I’m not going to try and waste my time explaining it to you.

Indeed it would be a waste of time. You present a poster-child example of what I mean. You make the fundamental mistake of correlating “society” with the Internet, as if the two are one and the same. The story was an example of the fact that your view is your own, and assuming that others share this view of the virtual world is —as you put it-- a logical fallacy.

This is the part where you relate behavior on the Internet with criminal behavior IRL, which is why you’re right, it’s a waste of time arguing about it.

As a side note, and purely on an argumentative pov., I seriously fail to see the link between an otherwise very interesting story and the conclusions you have drawn from it… but I tried…

Yeah it was a bit hard to see the point I admit. Much like the OP here, it was more a funny story that came up about the topic of TS infiltration. The point could have been made without the story! :-)

Funny how the brain works, it was an associative thing. Seeing people complain about infiltrating others TS to use the information in game, never mind that in this case it hardly had any tactical aspect beyond a little “payback”, just made me remember my good old friend Abindago.

Another good example of why the Internet simply can not be compared to real life and society, here was a guy that I spent countless hours in a game with over a period of ~2 years, and I barely knew his real first name, knew only minor bits & piece of his real life, and once we left UO we never heard from one another again aside from an occasional totally impersonal post on the guild forums once or twice a year.

I am kitten. Wvw video by Obsession.

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

It never ceases to amaze me how different people’s view of morals on the Internet are.

Story time…sit back and grab a bag of popcorn…

Press the spoiler button at your own peril, there be walls-o-text within!


My very first MMO was Ultima Online. If you were there for the early days, you might be able to understand the story a bit better. I was but a wee little a scrub in a tight-knit little guild called The League of Pirates, which had come to some renown in the pre-alphas. Sheer luck and the fancy of being a pirate in an MMO somehow got me into this guild, despite being quite a bad player early on.

We built the very first boat in beta and sailed it through the city of Vesper, and my very first ever PvP kill in an MMO was a rather popular member of my own guild! This didn’t make me very popular with some of my mates early on, but later —as I became somewhat less scrubby-- I got along with everyone.

However, I digress. There was a guildy of mine named Abindago. You could almost say this kid, about 5 years younger than myself, taught me about “moral values” on the Internet. This guy was a master infiltrator…and no, I’m not talking about a class in the game! You worry about someone abusing TS for spying, which btw happened just as much in IRC back then…well Abindago took things “a wee bit” farther. He would infiltrate our enemies guilds under a new toon he’d power-leveled for weeks in secret ONLY for this purpose! He would befriend the most powerful guys in these guilds very quickly, blind them with his broad knowledge of the game, and of course his own personal riches which he was generously sharing! This guy was basically role-playing a con artist! A rather heartless one at that!

In case you never played UO, it wasn’t a coddled safe environment like most MMOs are today. Everything you owned could be stolen from you. Everything. If you owned a house/tower/castle, you had a key. If you didn’t want just anyone to walk in, you had to lock the doors…which meant carrying the keys, which could be stolen from your backpack by other players. Keys stolen? Weeks worth of work for you entire guild down the drain at the press of a button. Thanks for the tower! Have a nice day! (A little later the company fixed this so you at least couldn’t steal the structures from people anymore once they were placed, but everything that was inside them was still fair game!)

Abindago was the destroyer of guilds. After a guild would entrust him with full access to the guild house(s) and chests, we’d pick a late night moment, and a dozen of us would sometimes spend an hour looting the places down to the very last worthless belonging…just to really rub it in. This never failed to kill off these guilds completely. The internal strife over the lost loot, the embarrassment of being conned…it never failed to destroy these guilds. Heartless.

Abin and I got to be closest pals in game, and he never ceased to amaze me with his talent for conning. In order to infiltrate another rival guild, he faked an elaborate & drama-filled break-up with ours. He incitekittene flame war on our message boards, even most of our members didn’t know it was fake, and it all ended up with him giving our enemies the keys to our HQ to really make them believe he had crossed us.

After they looted our house, he was put on our KoS list and he was now “in like Flynn” with our enemies. Before long we looted them dry, and our little double-agent returned to us faithfully as he had always done before. (That’s the strange part…he was always really loyal, and the nicest guy you could ever meet. Provided you were in our guild! )

What’s the moral of this story? It’s the internet! Team speak, message boards, in game…none of it is subject to moral analysis. Your ideas of “moral” behavior on this virtual playground are vastly different from other people’s.

Ahh the good ole days…

I am kitten. Wvw video by Obsession.

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Actually, I thought it was very entertaining. At moments the enemies were playing so poorly I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. It certainly is a whole barrel of fun running a heavy condie build (2200+ condie damage nice!) against enemies who literally don’t seem to have any cleanses, or at least don’t know how/when to use the few they might have had.

Sadly, I never seem to run into such “players” for lack of a better word that wouldn’t get me banned.

I think the TS aspect is hilarious. It clearly shows the difficulties for a game company like Anet. I mean, these guys are paying customers just like any of us, and thus their opinions -no matter how flawed they may be- kinda carry the same weight as anyones here. That is scary. And it explains a lot of the knee-jerk nerfs, like the Maim nerf. Could you even imagine these fights with MtD doing 2x Torment per shatter?

For the first time I sorta understand that nerf now. I still don’t agree with it, but obviously it’s too much to expect people to think while they play.

Did you hear all the self-defeating attitude? “You can’t fight that!” is the battle cry of the scub! Clearly this guy wasn’t running any amount of Condie clears. I’ve fought Rangers 1v1 for 5m or more in a similar Condie Shatter build, so what’s this guys excuse for not even trying to change his spec when he clearly knew he was going to be facing you again! (Nevermind that Rangers have pretty potent WvW condie builds as well.)

(He came back for more in the same build every time! lol! “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” – Albert Einstein)

This is why you can’t balance PvP games.

Anyway, thanks for posting the video, it made me laugh!

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

The 4 Most Underestimated Traits

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

I’m going to have to throw Duelists Discipline in there. I’ve been playing Sw/Sw for a bit and I do love the look of it, but that darn Phant is just semi-kittened. He seems to miss a lot for various reasons, and of course dies a lot too.

So I thought “what the heck, let’s try Pistol with DD again” and yeah I wish the bleed wasn’t broken, but in a CS build with 3x MoD to boot, this trait just adds up to a lot of hard CC. In team fights on a point it’s fairly easy to reduce the CD of the Pistol #5 by 50% or more. With CS traited it’s a pretty “impactful” ability, and having it up twice as often means just that much more 2.5s Stuns & Dazes.

The Phantasm is reliable, strong, and doesn’t die so much.

The Sword block/counter combo is still infuriatingly clunky and telegraphed, the projectile option is OK but also slow & unreliable.

Due to the nature of the CD reduction trait for Pistol, I think the lower CDs for Sword and the relatively bad CD reduction trait, I now favor the Pistol again. For clustered group fights using a heavy AE interrupt build, Magic Bullet & DD is just plain nasty.

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

The 4 Most Underestimated Traits

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

I’d throw in Harmonious Mantras. This too has become a powerful GM, especially coupled with Insp. allowing you to easily reach the 20% damage bonus just by popping your MoR 3 times. Between that and the extra charge, you really can pop out a lot of healing, AE condie removal, AE Dazes or even AE Damage.

I actually feel that DE is not nearly as much of a “must have” as it was before the patch. I’ve played a lot of builds without it lately, and still shattered plenty and rarely missing it.

I think it’s also the fact that dodging just for Clone creation really is often not a very smart idea anymore. We have all around less dodges, so you have to use them a little more sparingly. Maybe that’s why DE just doesn’t seem quite as powerful as before anymore.

Sadly, I don’t feel that Mistrust is living up to it’s cool name. An interrupt event simply should be more punishing, not matter what the ludicrously rarely reached maximum potential may be. Most of the time it’s rather lackluster as a Dueling GM, and not even remotely competitive to something like Power Block is for a Power Interrupt build.

[PvP] Will you use Shield?

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Yeah but that stun is still telegraphed with a huge and so so pretty animation. You can’t really compare it to instant cast mantra cheese.

From what I’ve seen of it, I don’t think there will be any telegraphing before you’re stunned if I’m coming from stealth and releasing it at point blank range.

By the time you see it, you’ll already be stunned and getting dumped on (hard and fast thanks to Quickness), and by the chance you make it through that, you may very well end up getting stunned again when it returns. ;-)

You Don't Know What You Have...

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

As for the bad rotations comment ChaosA made, this isn’t limited to Mesmers. In just about every single match I’ve played for weeks now, both teams have been made up of marauding lunatics who know no rotations, run to every point that needs capping, and fight everywhere they can which more often than not is off point. It’s like “holding a point” isnt a concept at all.

Good, then it’s not just me! ;-) I’ve been getting really bad teams lately too. I guess an influx of new players, or people switching professions/builds and totally forgetting about how to actually play the game?

[PvP] Will you use Shield?

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

So what about when CS gets nerfed, you could then use Shield #5 for the stun to burst into. :P

I agree in principle with many things Fay said, but I do believe it’s too early to judge it fully. I think that getting 30% extra crit chance on slowed targets is a pretty big deal, and although that has little/nothing to do with Shield directly, it is a pretty easy & reliable way to get that Slow.

The dual Phants with Chronophantasm GM could be pretty neat for double MWs (F5).

Mainhand sword needs buffs (pvp)

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

I think OH Sword #4 should be changed to a full ~2 to 3s block, with the option to counter-attack anytime during that 2s, cancelling the block. If you let the 2s run out, you get no counter attack at all.

I also think the counter should be very hard to avoid, even if that means lowering the damage a bit. I mean, it’s a counter! A counter attack is all about abusing your opponent’s weakened defenses caused by his/her own attack. Having an easy counter against a counter attack is…well…counter intuitive!

I agree the iSwordsman is “pretty good”. It’s a bit niche actually, not very good in team fights, but it’s not bad. The issue is really the #4, which in theory provides defense, but in actuality it really doesn’t, due to the odd & quirky way in which both Mesmer blocks work. (Which incidentally is also the reason why you drop the orb. I think this is from a Diversion-like temporal effect that no longer is actually providing any evade/invuln? The same issue happens with Mirror Images for no good reason at all. This effect provides 0 benefit, and on that map actually hurts us. Also it seems to be the source of that pesky delay that makes the blocks nearly useless from a defense point of view, as you take more damage then you block when trying to get your counter-attack in.)

I’m sure Fay/Pyro can explain it much more detailed and accurately, but something is amiss with those darned blocks and Mirror Images. ;-)

Making the #4 a true block would go a long way in providing an actual alternative OH to Torch. We simply have no OH defensive options until the Shield comes, but even that looks to implement that same clunky block…only twice in a row? You really need that defense, especially in a Power build, and this is IMO why so few people take OH Sword. The Phantasm is leaps and bounds (no pun!) better than the Torch one, but clearly The Prestige has such a strong and reliable defense as compared to Illusionary Riposte. (Not to even mention the offensive aspect of Stealth.)

I mean it’s got over twice the CD of IR and a really terrible Phantasm, but still far more people choose Torch and have for a very long time. (Long before the current PU I mean.) So no, OH Sword is not really OK. It’s the block that needs a fix to give this OH a reasonable & reliable defensive component, and then we’ll see it be truly competitive with Torch and the soon to be released Shield.

Anyone using the Inspiration line?

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Inspiration was probably one of the most significant improvements we’ve gotten. It’s a bit overshadowed by the “soon to be nerfed” stuff, but once we see those adjustments roll in I think Inspiration will become even more popular.

I don’t think I’ve even seen anyone properly use Inspiring Distortion, especially in a Signet build in a team environment. The Boonstorm builds are definitely looking very solid. Taking Chaos, Insp, and either Dom or Duel is a really powerful combo of personal sustain, awesome team utility, and still solid damage output especially when the Might stacks fly. (In Marauder even.)

In fact, before Anet nerfs anything, they should consider first either boosting the effects of Toughness in general and/or at least reworking any non-Marauder Amulets aside from maybe Zerker. Basically any non-Marauder gear is near useless in comparison. It’s LONG overdue that Anet makes both Toughness and to an even larger degree Healing more worthwhile investing into. (The latter may be more of a Mesmer issue, I don’t know.)

Back on topic though, Inspiration is awesome and also balanced, so it’s unlikely to be the target of any direct nerfs.

I hope that Anet will temper the needed nerfs with needed improvements elsewhere. The entire Illusions line turned out as lackluster as it looked on paper, once MtD was nerfed. Naturally, it needs fixes to the broken Scepter GM (which should be Master IMO), and MoF clearly needs buffs to compete. However, the real issue are the rest of the traits, most of which are lackluster and have little/no synergies with either Condition or Power builds.

When Did I Start Cheering for Thieves??

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Maybe try to be like the old Mesmers facing thieves, get better so current Mesmers can “respect” you more.

lol!

Thread over.

GG!

/bow

Mainhand sword needs buffs (pvp)

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Ideas have been bandied around in the past including reducing the number of “hits” that blurred frenzy does, to minimise retal damage – as well as buffing the damage of each hit so it can actually be used to deal good damage.

Agree 100% here. The individual hits tend to be too low and that creates the issue the OP is talking about. Making it do the same damage in 6 hits instead of 8 would go a long way in helping the Retal issue. Of course this is a “be careful what you ask for” issue, because we don’t want them to shorten the Evade part of the skill. ;-)

Melee mesmer pvp needs advice

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

I was going to suggest Scepter, but technically it’s still a ranged weapon. The #3 skill actually puts out some good damage now, but it’s still a bit easy to dodge since it’s so well telegraphed.

In 1v1 or to some degree in 2v1 you can trade blows for a bit for sure. It’s all about learning to time the Distortions available to you. Could also think about incorporating SoIllusions for the 50% HP bonus to iDefender and your other illusions, plus the ability to reset your shatters. This will not only give you another F4, but of course the heals & condie clears to go with all your shatters.

You can absolutely frustrate the crap out of your opponent when you keep Diversioning their big bursts. Between Dodges, Diversions, Swd#2, and Swd4 you have a lot of strong defense, and with shatters you add AE Blind + self-heal + 1 condie cleanse to boot.

SoEther is only an idea, try that or MoR or just plain EF.

One thing you gotta say about this patch, our heals are all quite decent now depending on build. MoR is solid with the changes to Mantra recharge and Insp traits, Mirror is plain awesome traited, and SoEther is also quite nice for a Sigil build.

Another option would be to get Dom in there, and instead of Sigs/Diversion, go with Power Block & FI in an interrupt/melee build. Having 3s of Quickness on kitten RuT is quite formidable, just gotta get those interrupts in and you can go bat-kitten crazy on some guy in melee. ;-) Using MoDistraction is also a form of defense, and with CS you would also lock people down at the same time…yummie for Quickness + AAs.

None of this will make you just as strong as the current trend of power shatter Mesmer, but I think it is viable and can be fun for an oddball spec.

Lastly, as Skcam said, check out Chaos’ thread about Sw/Sw and the finally fixed Phantasmal Haste. It really makes that iSworddude pretty formidable. Combined with Chaos traitline and Chaotic Dampening, even without a Staff, this would make sense. The iSwordsman procs Chaos Armor for you upon summoning inside an Etheral field. So one could go with a TW + NF build and have 2 strong Etheral fields to get CA in and due to the trait you end up with a lot of Protection uptime. Just another way to toughen up a Marauder melee build I guess.

I have only played with some of this for a bit here and there, and with mixed results. Against Thieves or other classes that you know really well and you’re fighting in 1v1, the BI/Signet build can be really strong. Even in group fights, where you’re often a preferred focus target, the ability to pop multiple Diversions and have your opponents dump timers without being able to down you, can be really fun.

It’s definitely niche, but I venture to say it was that way before the patch. GL!

Melee mesmer pvp needs advice

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

You make a lot of (IMO) false assumptions here. I’m wondering what build you had before that doesn’t work now? Pretty much everything has been improved, so it’s hard to follow what your issues are.

Is it just that other Mesmer builds are outperforming yours? Surely this was the same before the patch?

The thing to note is that there is not really a “pure” way to play a Mesmer anymore. Shatter is a base mechanic of the class, and not using it is like fighting with hand tied behind your back. You can make an excellent melee-heavy build under the new system.

For a good mix of survivability & damage I would go with Dueling/Insp/Dom and quite frankly I’d stick with Marauder Amulet in sPvP. (If we’re talking WvW you have even more options to customize and should be able to pull off either Cele, or Zerker+Knights/Cav or something.)

In sPvP the stats are very very limited now. I don’t really like this either, but that’s how the ball bounces sometimes. Thus in sPvP Marauder Amulet is clearly the best combination of survivability & damage output.

So what you lack in Toughness, which is not really a particularly great stat anyway, you have to make up in other ways; namely healing, blinds, iDefender, and Diversion. So I would suggest a Signet build, something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAsc8ansICFohNoBmpBUrhlTD68JR56kBIFLvcErIcA-TJRHABZXGgl9HE4kAAwTAAA

I just whipped this up real fast, but the point is to get survivability from Blurred Inscriptions, healing off shatters, mucho Condie clears from both, etc. I would personally go with GS on top rather than Sw/Pi. The iZerker is stronger, and really GS is generally best used in melee range anyway. (MB+MS+MW is nasty point blank damage!)

MirrorBlink: A Secret Recipe for Mesmer Burst

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Decent players are rapidly adapting to this spike, and most of the time I’m lucky to even get them to 50% anymore. The first few days after the patch were insane, but it’s changed quite substantially since then.

It’s definitely powerful, and perhaps due to CS a bit too powerful esp. when combined with PU, but the vast majority of players can not be 100-0’d anymore. I’ve had some really really long fights with Rangers, Eles, Engies, Guardians…you name it. In most of these bouts it came down to skill IMO.

I have lost quite a few times to players I feel were obviously more skilled than I am, and won a few after 3+ minute battles where our skill levels seemed fairly comparable.

The biggest irony of this patch has to be Thieves. Oh how many self-proclaimed experts cried that they would wreck the game after the patch! lol! It’s not that they’re bad, but we’ve definitely been given the tools to greatly even out the battle field.

[Vid] BoonShare Mesmer Post-Patch (WvW/PvP)

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Windwalker.7421

Finally gave this a go in sPvP tonight after watching this. Slight variations here and there, but same concept. Worked out really well, had a lot of fun. I was a lot weaker 1v1, but in duos & team fights I was plain evil.

Very nice team support and still decent damage output despite the lack of Dom.

The new confusion - just another dot ...

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Agree with Pyro, I really like this idea too. It’s very unique and fits the original intent of Confusion. I also like the natural synergy with Slow.

Very cool idea!

Offhand Sword is Better Than Ever

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Yeah the OH Sword is tempting, always has been, but the problem is that it’s so limited in it’s use IMO. As stated above, the only really strong side to it is in 1v1 or WvW solo roaming, but even there I have a hard time seeing it replace the Torch.

No matter how bad the Torch Phantasm is, and man I never thought I’d see a more nerfed one than the one we had before the patch (lol! /cry), but it’s all about that extra low CD Stealth. Not having TP and having it means so much in so many situations, it’s really just very hard to give up.

In group fights you can do without it of course, but as others have said, I don’t see the OH Sword helping much in group situations either.

Maybe a roaming build with no 2hers, so you can keep Torch would be neat…but I don’t think Scepter and even OH Sword are up to replacing all that the GS offers.

CD reduction: Conditional vs Flat amount

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

100% Agree. The only reason to ever like it more than the old system is when it’s basically “OPd” as in, granting a whole lot more than 20%. Any other time, most will naturally likely prefer a stable 20% over the “mmmmmaaaaayybe” more but most likely less than 20%.

So pre-nerf the Staff one was hugely popular for good reason, and now it’s rather “meh, please gimme the 20% back!”

Achieving balance with the new system is just too obscure. The flat amount is far easier for people to understand, depend upon for more skillful play rotations, and is easier to balance.

In short…gimme back my 20% on both Torch and Staff!

Why are we the self defeating community?

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Jump shot+ passive rocket followed by throwwrench to proc lighting then blunderbuss..
Usually that kills people for me. averages about 10-13k if everything crits and procs fire and air.

Well this guy hit JS for 6.5k and BB for 6.5k, so 10-13k is being very conservative. ;-)

Why are we the self defeating community?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Just to add one more build to the list of ridiculous Power-burst professions that very well can compete with the P-Shatter burst, I ran into a Rifle Engie earlier. We all know about Grenade Barrage, and he 100-1%ed me with that when he caught me from behind with all my stuff up, I managed to make a close getaway thanks to F4, Blink and Stealth. OK that’s broken and will surely be fixed.

However, ran into him shortly after and he pulled a combo (from Stealth!) and almost insta-gibbed me again. It was something like Jump Shot=>Blunderbuss and something else I forget, and each of the first two hits was over 6.5k, while the last hit for around 4k. All pretty much in the same instant and from Stealth.

This was without GB or obviously I’dda been dead as a doornail instantly.

Not crying here, just sayin’….we’re not the only ones with a 100-0 capability. (Granted, the insta stun does make a difference.)

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

Mtd second try in tpvp

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

It’s just really hard to justify playing anything but a power shatter at the moment. I never thought it possible, but it seems even more true than before the patch, and certainly after the gutting of MtD.

I run Dom/Insp/Dueling with Marauder, and I’m a killing machine that is also hard to bring down, and as Ross said, even brings a fair bit of utility to the table between cleanses and AE heals & invulns. That MtD was nerfed while Golem testing is especially ironic, since I’m just about 1 shotting the heavy ones.

Of course we’re not the only one. I’ve watched both a Thief and a Nades Engie do the same. Yeah the Grenade Barrage bug prolly, but I’ve also seen a Mortar Engie do the same thing only it took about a half second longer.

Of course Guardians, Warriors, and Rangers always have been able to near insta gib the heavy golem. So obviously that’s not really a measure of performance, but it does show the potential burst damage and currently it’s through the roof for most professions.

Thus it gets really hard to enjoy any sort of Condition build outside of maybe the blatantly OPd ones (which certainly does not include Mesmers, lol!) , but as Ross said, with Insp you hardly notice even those. You end up doing 3 times the work for far less effect, and worse, with less group utility.

The ability to survive even in Marauder is pretty awesome thanks to Insp & Dueling. The AE Blind and heals & cleanse on shatter are huge, the iDefender is a nice extra illusion to shatter plus helps you absorb counter-bursts before you do.

I just can’t find any reason to play anything else until they fix all that they broke with this patch.

Why are we the self defeating community?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Seriously, stop trying to play victim. Mesmer was the 2nd strongest zerk class even before the patch.

You’re hilarious. Second strongest class that wasn’t even in the meta. lol!

Seriously though, I liked the posted video. I felt the Guardian was generally very honest, even if a little biased (of course), but still he was honest that his stuff was at least as broken as the Mesmer burst thing if not more. Yes, the Mesmer burst was inflated with some unrealistic aspects, but that Mesmer was twice the player I’ll ever dream of being, and I trust that he is not out to kill Mesmers, but to balance the game.

What I thought was interesting was that without Inspiration he literally had no chance against the Burn Guardian. All that supposed 100-0 thing was completely gone, he couldn’t get his bursts off. So apparently it’s not so 100% as people are claiming, even the video itself. I don’t remember, but I’m guessing the Guardian was not still in the 23k & 3400 Armor build, surely he switched to a more balanced and favorable build before the duel? And still, no 100-0, actually no ridiculous damage bursts at all. Clearly the issue there is that it requires so many button pushes that it’s pretty prone to failure.

They were entertaining duels and most were close, although once Mesmer went Illusions he won pretty much all of them. (In turn w/o it Guardian won all.)

Very good video. I have to admit that both these guys sound sensible, and so does MailMail and many others here.

I agree with you in principle, I want a balanced game too and I don’t want to play an OPd FoTM Mesmer, however I want to stay on the side of caution and avoid giving into “knee jerk” emotional balancing, and give it a few more days for players to adjust builds and more clearly see where the main issues are.

I think Pyro’s suggestion for CS sounds pretty reasonable. However, before we touch on too many traits, ANet needs to make a much larger decision on where they want the games damage to be. Just as the guys in the video, I strongly feel there was a general significant power creep for both Condie and direct damage. They either need to improve the scaling of Toughness and/or Vit to match, or reduce Power & Condition damage a tad.

If you nerf traits before you solve that fundamental problem, I think you’re just watering down all the hard work put into this giant patch.

Why are we the self defeating community?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Confounding Suggestions is definitely OP. Do you disagree that having an automatic unavoidable(Mantra of Distraction + a myriad of other dazes) stun with no counter-play every 5s is balanced? You keep saying the word “self-defeating”, but I don’t believe asking for balanced professions is “self-defeating”.

But we could always do this before, why is it suddenly OPd? It’s not like a 50% chance to stun is a poor chance, especially when the Daze is 100%. It had no CD, so theoretically you could have done that combo much more often before the patch.

The difference now is that PU lasts longer, making it easier to pull this off with your opponent not being able to see it coming. It was always possible, just not quite as reliable.

The real problem here is not CS! It’s the very much increased burst damage you can deliver in that 1.25s stun! Heck with SoD you could always have stunned someone from Stealth for nearly 4 whole seconds! However, the fact is that before the patch, it was difficult to 100 – 0 someone fast enough to make this tactic work.

The problem with asking for nerfs to yourself, before we’re even had the time to explore counters, is that we end up focusing on the wrong issue! The damage nerf is coming, not to us alone, it’ll likely be a broad-spectrum nerf, or maybe a broad-spectrum boost to people’s HPs/Toughness. Once that is there, and CS is nerfed because you asked for it yourself, then you’re right back in the mud puddle that Mesmers were in for years.

It was never that “one nerf” that made Mesmers so uncompetitive. It was a series of over-nerfs, followed by a series of completely indirect nerfs that together watered the profession down.

I think people who believe that after only 5 days they know exactly what needs to be nerfed, and what doesn’t, for not only Mesmers but also other classes and the game as a whole, are just self-righteous loudmouths. You will never balance this game by following the vocal crowd.

Of course, deluding yourself in thinking that anyone is actually interested in achieving balance, including Anet, is probably the first mistake people like me make. ;-)

Why are we the self defeating community?

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Because mesmer are so used to being an awful class, we feel like something’s wrong when we aren’t.

Bingo!

+1

Thoughts 5 days after patch?

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

I still cannot for the life of me understand why they nerfed Chaotic Dampening and not PU.

Hmm, I think a nerf was needed, but as usual Anet choose the Machete over a Scalpel as their balancing tool.

3% would have been reasonable and on the safe-side, while 4% is reasonable but also still a bit strong. These silly new ways of cutting down CDs are simply too hard to balance properly. Just go back to 20% for all of these, looking at you there Torch Trait!, and be DONE with it! Fess up to the fact that it was a bad idea and move on!

Before you nuke the mesmer via pvp complaints

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

FOR SIX SECONDS EVEN!

Bunker Mesmer now viable in PvP, except . . .

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Agree that the <16k health is one of the key issues in this discussion. I feel that Anet really messed up the stats thing, which is especially an issue in sPvP. The Amulet choices are simply outdated now, and Marauder is almost a clear choice anymore regardless of build.

I think what they did with the Marauder Amulet is correct, in that it no longer places equal value on all stats as clearly some scale much better than others. Now they just need to rebalance all of them with the same/similar approach.

After taking stats from the trait lines, we have very poor flexibility with stats. This shows the most with Vitality, because there is a sweet-spot you kinda almost “have to have” to survive 1 shot deaths. With Toughness scaling poorly, they need to put at least a little Vit on several Toughness related Amulets as part of being tough requires having enough HPs to make use of that toughness. (I can understand why Zerker was nerfed in this regard, you really shouldn’t get more HPs as a pure GC.)

I was expecting that they would provide some new mechanics of customizing your stats just a little, and was pretty surprised how little thought or work they seemed to have put into the rather significant nerf of our stats. The flat percentage increases were clearly not going to provide enough.

Same goes for all the percent bonuses. I thought they’d at least off load some of this stuff onto Amulets, or better yet boost the existing stats & bonuses on armor runes as well.

All in all though, I disagree that bunkering in general doesn’t exist. I’ve run into a few Engies, Eles, and Guardians who had no problems holding a point for a significant amount of time in a 2v1. Any more attackers, and being able to hold a point indefinitely in just a 2v1 even, is IMO clearly OPd.

All 3 of these professions in a bunkerish build never took more than 50% damage from my CS=>Shatter Burst combo, often far less, and easily healed it up almost instantly. Against me alone they could hold the point indefinitely without any issues what so ever, but in 2v1 they had to be on their toes but could often still hold the point for 30-60 seconds, which is more then enough time for help to arrive and turn the tide. That’s IMO very balanced, because any more is just too much of a defensive advantage for a game centering around keeping & holding points.

And even if two GC single-target damage focused professions competently working in a team to attack one bunker, can not bring him down relatively fast, then quite frankly that too is OPd.

So I like this balance more, actually, as some bunkers were too strong before.

Mesmers can be very tanky now, but yeah it’s not really Bunker. You can kinda pull it off, certainly against some professions more than others, but it’s still not a Bunker in the purest sense of the word.

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

Thoughts 5 days after patch?

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Too many Mesmer nerfs.

Condie Shatter removed as a viable build choice.

Otherwise, having a blast! Power Shatter is amazing now. You can be both tough to kill, or supportive to your team, and can still put out good damage.

Overall, a good patch for Mesmers, but the Daily Mesmer Nerf is starting to really get very discouraging, especially when most other classes simple remain untouched; seemingly no matter how stupid they are.

And yet another Mesmer nerf

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

As you said in the other thread – if MtD swapped positions with the Scepter trait, it could be left at full duration with 2 stacks because you’d get none of the benefits Ineptitude provides.

I agree with that. The Scepter trait is bad anyway, even if it did work it’s not a GM worthy trait. It would seem balanced to force a choice between MtD and Ineptitude and then just nerf MtD for 33% duration.

However, my only point was/is it would still be absolutely fine to trade the current 50% DPS nerf of MtD, with another 50% DPS nerf, that being cutting it’s duration by 50%.

The fact is that so many times you’re only getting 1-3 ticks out of it at most, and that’s the worst case that Anet ought to consider in their balancing, because that’s really the most common case against competent opponents. Thus they get their 50%, but without destroying the AoE burst potential of MtD. It would still be a 50% nerf, and yet it would have much much less impact on the Condie Shatter concept then the current nerf.

I agree 33% is actually more balanced than 50%, but we could live happily with 3s Torments on MtD, but you simply break the concept of Condie Shatter by nerfing it back to 2014 with 1 stack. It was and is way too little pressure to be worthwhile shattering Clones over.

And yet another Mesmer nerf

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

bring mtd 2 stacks back and nerf pu 50% instead

Nah, just nerf MtD Torment duration by 50%, and you’d have a powerful yet totally balanced and viable Condition Shatter build again. Lacking the ability to punish your opponent quickly is the key issue with the now lacking Condition options for Mesmers.

Far too much of it relies on blocks, interrupts, or application of Blinds for paltry little meaningless stacks. (Outside of Scepter #2 of course.) Single stack here, 2 stacks there, that simply ain’t kitten. You’re not going to kill anyone in a reasonable amount of time like that.

Much better to go with CS, a guarantied 1.25s stun, Vulnerability + Fragility, and the bonus damage from Mental Anguish. You can put a huge damage spike on someone, literally from stealth without them having any counter play chance before eating a 4-8k MW to the face.

In order to get 4-8k damage out of MtD now…lol…takes how many seconds in a reasonable case?

Reasonable nerf would have been to adjust the potential damage output of MtD, but leave the worst case damage output largely unchanged. That’s what a 50% duration nerf would accomplish, without killing off the entire concept of Condition Shatter in the process.

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

Mtd new version [video]

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

^ Totally agree and it’s very plain from this video that the MtD nerf has killed off the Condie Shatter build as far as being a competitive means to apply AE pressure as compared to Power Shatter.

You no longer have the “tanky” advantage from Condie Shatter either, because P-Shatter can be built to have solid defense and still deliver far better and more reliable damage output then Condie Shatter.

The only time you’re doing remotely decent damage is off the block against a single target. Sad. Very sad to see. I would definitely go with Ineptitude and work the Chaos Armor angle, but I’ve tried that too and it was still very much below par.

The damage output of any current MtD build doesn’t even come close to achieving pre-patch MtD, and that’s plain sad considering it was never a very popular or powerful trait even before. Now it’s just garbage.

I guess in WvW roaming I could see someone pull off a very strong condition spec, mostly bent on 1v1 and occasionally 1v2 or so against newbs, but you really will want to focus on Confusion with probably Perplexity runes and then take MtD as an afterthought….a nice little bonus, but no longer a build-defining trait.

One of the worst balance decisions Anet has ever made against Mesmers IMO. Knee Jerk through and through, posterchild in fact, and absolutely not based on facts or reasonable amount of testing.

They could have just lowered the duration on MtD’s Torment by 50%, which effectively would have also halved the potential damage output, but it wouldn’t have lowered the actual effective damage output in a the quite typical “worst case” scenario where the enemy player quickly and frequently cleanses the Torments.

This would have retained MtD’s Condition Shatter burst capabilities, while still drastically lowering the maximum impact of MtD. This would keep MtD shatter viable as a way to deliver a quick Condition Burst even against semi-competent opponents with cleanses, and would have greatly reduced the burden on enemies with poor or no condition cleansing.

And yet another Mesmer nerf

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Maybe soon we’ll see a patch again that doesn’t involve some trait-breaking nerf to Mesmers, but at the moment they really have it in for us. I don’t know where they’re getting their facts, or whom they listen to for these nerfs, but I’m beyond caring. They’re breaking everything they created, and in the end will leave us exactly where we were before this huge overhaul.

Lots of broken, bugged, or useless traits and only the one single build that’s viable…the almighty Power Shatter! Love it or leave the Mesmer profession!

I haven’t been this disappointed with Anet since the last time they had it in for Mesmers, and it took 2 years for us to finally see the light of day, and it took literally 2 days for that light to lose it’s brightness.

Every patch brings bad news for Mesmers, and almost no one else is getting nerfed AT ALL! That alone tells you there is someone in charge who hates Mesmers. I’m not talking about balancing here! These are heavy-handed nerfs with intent to kill off the traits in question.

Also it’s plain that they didn’t invest 1 cent in beta-testing this patch, and that we’re currently beta testing for them. With all the alienating frustrations that come along with beta tests.

Ah OK so we get nerfed!

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

I know people on both sides want to use this thread as either a justification for to call for nerfs against Thieves, or in turn want to turn this into a typical “L2P noob” thread because they don’t like seeing screen shots that show grossly imbalanced damage numbers and get defensive about them in fear that the nerf hammer will swing their way soon.

The point of this thread was not to cry “foul” against Thieves and asking for nerfs. If that had been the case, I’d have posted this on the Thieves forum so I could get the verbal lashing I would obviously by looking for. :P

Overall, I am having a noticeably better experience fighting Thieves than before the patch. This is not about Thieves! This is primarily about the MtD nerf!

The simple problem for me is, in seeing and experiencing damage like that, is digesting the absolute gutting of the Condition Shatter Mesmer by practically removing the MtD trait as a viable trait choice!

We should have known it was coming when they symbolically moved it down from GM to Master, it was clearly headed in a direction where they could dilute it and say “it was too powerful for a Master trait!” as if that matters at all under the new system.

What’s even worse is that the GM which replaced it, is utterly broken and not even close to worthy of a GM trait even if it was working. In fact, all of the Illusion GMs are lacking and the line is all over the place anyway.

Somewhere along the way devs lost the entire reason for doing this overhaul, if they’re so willing and so quick to simply destroy traits again and be right back where we were before. Nerfed, broken, and buggy traits all over the place, leaving us with only the usual Power Shatter build, and Condition Shatter a distant second with almost no reason left to play it. (As the defense aspect of Power Shatter has been greatly improved, there is very little purpose in trading high burst direct damage with easily counterable low damage over time.)

I realize you want to put me into that neat little box of players who gets upset because they got creamed for ridiculous damage by a Thief and is crying for nerfs, but I assure you my intent was only to point out the utter lack of objectivity and logic behind balancing decisions. The rest was said more to point out that history is likely repeating itself with Thieves. Those damage numbers were not acceptable before, and they won’t be this time either. All it takes is enough people posting screen shots like this, and sooner or later the nerf hammer falls.

I won’t be the one to post them! I just wanted Anet to explain the MtD nerf to me, in light of screen shots like this. That is all. (Please note the title, if I wanted it to read NERF THIEVES!!! then that’s the title I would have chosen!)

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

Ah OK so we get nerfed!

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

While this SS is not about dodges, counter play, L2P, or any of that, I will say that I didn’t dodge because I was out of dodges and F4 was down. It wasn’t a 1v1 duel, but in team play on practice mode.

First off, I had not seen numbers like this since the big damage nerf on Thieves. You kinda have to wonder why Anet didn’t learn the first time around that this won’t fly. It will get nerfed yet again, and will alienate Thief players yet again just as it did back then. Same for Mesmers pulling out 100-0 in under 2 seconds. It’s not gonna last, and it’ll peeve people off when it gets nerfed yet again.

What this thread is really about… MtD nerfed by 50% within hours of going live, REALLY!? As compared to being effectively insta-gibbed with nearly 0 chance to counter play! Bravo! Let’s hear it for balance! lol! Just proves my point that people simply hate Conditions, they hate dieing to them. Including Anet apparently, because you can not possibly be serious in nerfing MtD and leaving Thieves doing 10k HSes at the spam of a single button.

I was at/near full health fighting on the side lines just off a point, I had someone else targeted and BAM, BAM, no endurance to dodge, oh wait F4 is down too! Oh no, BAM! Dead.

This wasn’t a post about nerfing Thieves! It also wasn’t a post to display how beautifully I played it, I didn’t! It’s merely about those numbers being plain whack for the time it took to deliver them! A 10k Heart Seeker is plain stupid. I thought we learned this the last time around. It’s even more stupid in relation to the MtD nerf and it’s completely lacking explanation. This will get nerfed, you can cry L2P all you want, it will get nerfed again just like it was last time.

You couldn’t EVER kill ANYONE as fast as this guy killed me with MtD shatter. No matter how bad the build, how negligent to Conditions/removal you made it, you’d have at least 3-4 times longer to react to your death then I did in that fight.

Even if you took a full MtD shatter burst and were loaded with conditions, you could still completely negate most of the damage with a cleanse, you could use one or more heals to probably live and/or other people would have far more time to cleanse or heal for you! You could pop Resistance if you had it. Never mind all the options you’d have to counter all or most of the burst to begin with. (It’s a multi-step burst! No press 1 button and do 10+k.)

Tons and tons of counter play options even AFTER you took the full burst combo.

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

Ah OK so we get nerfed!

in Mesmer

Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

The attached SS speaks for itself.

- Unlucky steal 2.5k (NP)
- C&D over 6k (OUCH!)
- into an over 11k BS

All that was near instant. Then came a 10k Heart Seeker at the end just to add insult to injury.

I’m so glad we got MtD nerfed! It was obviously OUT OF CONTROL!!!!

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