Guild Wars 2

muscarine.5136:

Current fights are just a blurry furball where whomever has the more fire and forget AoE and mobility will win.

I hope an ANet dev reads that. That is a perfect example of why no one PvPs in GW2. People want strategy and challenge. Not clusterfu&% tactics.

fqrnkl.3128:

no idea what laurel is but sounds good. bump

Bump… For ze laurels!

Jonathan! I know you’re undermanned and all that trying to make miracles happen with sPvP but this seems to be the easiest decision someone could ever make… Add 1 laurel to the PvP daily and BOOM you’ll have tons of people who never would’ve thought of doing sPvP in there doing it anyway to get their laurel.

If even 1% of those people actually realizes they enjoy sPvP it served it’s purpose.

I think the #1 thing in sPvP that is lacking is population of regular players. Sure you have your ultra hardcore competitive paid tourny guys… But that isn’t enough. You need that fluffy casual base at the bottom. This is a great way to get it.

SwickHobo.5096:

i presume the hammer 4 roots you as a way to balance the fact that its an AoE. Not saying its the right way to go about things, but if u compare it to say mace 3 that one allows you to move and has a much faster skill activation at 1/4th a sec. Another example of this is the Utility skill stomp. It roots you as well for another AoE pushback. coincidence i think not.

I think if it roots you then it shouldn’t have a casting time/delay. The casting delay coupled with the root will make you miss 90% of the time considering most other classes can move and attack and won’t stand still to give you a free interrupt.

This game’s PvP focuses around a lot of anticipating and making moves you think the other guy might make. Not focusing around reacting to what you see with reflexes. I’m not a fan of that. Perfect example would be on the thief forums they’re always saying steal, cloak and dagger, backstab is balanced and you just need to learn to dodge roll right before he attacks… Anticipating a move that may or may not even be made.

Bad PvP design. I mean you don’t need me to tell you something is rotten in the state of Denmark… Look at the sPvP population. There are less than 500 people queueing for games on NA on a daily basis. The game sold over 3 million copies and 500 people are PvPing. o.O

To put that in perspective. There were still 20 people playing Halo 2 PC a few weeks ago before Microsoft took the servers down. lol

I’m speaking from a warrior’s perspective here.

Does anyone else feel like the combat in this game has too many abilities that root you in place or have a slight delay before they fire off? An example would be the hammer number 4 key and the F1 burst ability. They both seem to have a minor delay before they go off that stops you from following your opponent.

It’s little things like that that have completely turned me off of PvP. Now I don’t think I have the reflexes of a ninja. But I do know that when I play my warrior it is ridiculously frustrating that I can watch myself reacting faster than the game.

PvP is all about clutch ability timing. That 4 key on the hammer is going to be my favorite example so I’m going to keep using it. If I can see someone casting a heal or about to use an ability common sense would say “HEY! That 360 degree aoe knockback you have on the hammer would be a great intertupt!” But in reality. That delay and root just ruins most attempts I have at blocking an enemy heal or something of that nature.

That is the main reason I don’t sPvP anymore. It doesn’t feel rewarding to me like my skills are accurately being represented. I can’t be the only person that notices this about the game.

And I have almost 1000 hours invested in GW2. I’ve been around a minute or two.

Then again it could also be a class issue. I haven’t really done any PvP on my other characters. Do other classes notice this issue at all?

Seriously… Ascended is a minor upgrade to exotic… And it’s all you’ll need for 2013. lol At least you’ll feel like you have a goal for a few months before you lose your reasons to log in.

Just being cynical I still like the game. =P

sielfiel.4692:

its is indeed rediculously awesome! i like it. good job anet im sooo glad im done with Arah.

So you’re happy you got all your gear when exploiting was possible and take joy in the fact that other people after you won’t be able to do it… NICE.

Malediktus.9250:

Oh you have to run back for 3minutes? Big deal. Its a low punishment for wiping. I think wiping should cause the dungeon to fail so you have to restart completly.

The Joseph Stalin of MMO development. NO DUNGEON FOR YOU!

IMO they should have made their boss fights interesting and challenging before they removed rez rushing. Maybe if they made their dungeon encounters engaging and strategic like some other MMO… I can’t think of the name… People wouldn’t have been laughing at their PVE since launch.

I don’t think people got turned off of GW2 dungeons because of the rez rushing. I think they got tired of snoring through the boring uneventful combat and silly PVE mechanics.

I still remember when i was a GW2 infant and I first encountered the little skelks or whatever they’re called in AC that tackle you to the ground and kill a fully tanked warrior or guardian from 100% to dead unless you have stability on your bar. I thought that was the dumbest mechanic I’d ever seen in a PVE game.

Now I’ve been playing since launch and I go back to that dungeon and the fights are easy as all hell. But that doesn’t change the fact that sometimes I get hit by one and pop balanced stance. Only to get hit by another one later when balanced stance is on CD and it’s an automatic death.

These dungeons have wayyyyyyyy too much CC and insta death mechanics. That is not entertaining content. There is a difference between a challenge that entertains and something that is made intentionally difficult that just angers the majority. And when a player loses control of his character for a long period of time because of enemies firing off long CC’s with minimal cooldowns the game goes from challenging fun to just frustrating and stupid.

I like the fractal fights for the most post. I think that was a step in the right direction. Hopefully that is the flow they put in to the regular full length dungeons. But where they are now something needs to change.

Everyone posting here hasn’t done all the dungeons yet. They are wanna be elitist/trolls. Telling you you’re not good enough even though they haven’t even attempted the new dungeons.

The whole point of the thread isn’t that they shouldn’t have removed rez rushing. It’s that they should have done all their changes in one patch instead of putting the most useless half first and making everyone wait for the final product.

They should have just left it alone. Finished their work. Released it as one update.

Basically they just built you a car chassis first. They’ll get you the engine and wheels later. Just chill on those bricks until it’s ready.

I think everyone knows what you mean. They also know how ridiculously annoying it will make every social location in the game. You would have to disable sound to do anything in Lion’s Arch.

I also think that musician had a point. It will trivialize music kind of the way Guitar Hero does to a real guitarist.

Sky.9347:

maddoctor.2738:

Sky.9347:

Actually, he’s basing his argument on the current game.
You’re basing yours on the possible game tomorrow.

So if Anet has already identified the issue of having Ascended only in Fractals, and repeatedly said (and announced) that it will be fixed, not in the future, but tomorrow, yet we still get complains? How about just waiting for less than 24h (it’s not much) and then taking out the tomahawk of war.

The thing is, ANet destroyed most player’s trust through bad decisions followed by blatant mistakes.

I have absolutely zero faith that the patch tomorrow will correct much of this, or learn from past mistakes.

Sure, we can wait and see. Maybe they will prove me wrong. Chances are, based on their post-release history, that they will massively bumble it up.

How much of a grind will these new Ascended pieces be? Will the older pieces be spread out? Will grind be reduced? Will all avenues be equally rewarding?

We will find out soon. I’m going to be laughing so hard while browsing the forums from work tomorrow… it should be a blast seeing what kind of trouble these ‘wascilly wabbits’ get themselves into this time.

Speak for yourself. I understand you may be a melodrama major but relax. If they design something and put it in the game it isn’t a 1 week process for them to design a completely different system to appease all the doomcriers after the fact.

The game isn’t going to die because of ascended. You’re creating a problem out of nothing. It’s easily solved. They know it. We know it. They just have to write lines of code and put it in the game. Are you going to right the code? Then stop talking and let them do their job.

I would hate to be a developer of any product and have to listen to the most whiny ungrateful people on earth.

EDIT: TL;DR: FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS

potimus.2613:

This is horrible…I can’t believe you guys let a few noobs talk you into removing golems in a box from wvw. For one you have to have your inventory open, click on them, then hit 1 to use them…the whole time you are standing still, and they are also considered projectiles, so therefore can be reflected, in turn destroying the sender and his party. How can this be op??? I say its a L2P issue and I wish Anet would see it the same way but I guess too many whiners are blowing a gasket so everyone has to suffer.

Good thing you’re not a game designer. The problem is when people stand behind their zerg and shoot them through. The enemy team can’t see them through your clusterfu%$ of people and end up dying to ridiculous damage that they never saw coming.

Also… Since we have some Russians commenting in here. Is this how you guys really deal with road rage? =P

So many people would rather someone else not be able to communicate because they think it would inconvenience them by having to read a line of text and saying OH I CAN’T UNDERSTAND THAT. Next line.

lol

Captain Seyo.4285:

sPvP uses the other gear so it is a great equalizer. Just because you have made tremendous money in PvE doesn’t give you an advantage over someone else who just started the game. It makes sPvP about skill, and not a gear grind.

^ There is always THAT GUY who comes in a thread and only reads the headline but none of the actual posts. Thank you for making an example. lol

Don’t hate on my because I mention WoW. I’m 30 years old. I have my own place. lol However WoW was the first MMO I played. I think even their weapon grinds in vanilla were pretty good compared to GW2.

The priest chain to get the Anathema/Benediction. The hunter quest to get Rhok’delar, Longbow of the Ancient Keepers. There were some others but I can’t remember them.

Even if WoW is watered down and generic now. It used to have those good epic moments when it first came out.

I’ve been turned off the legendary grind in GW2. I currently have about 400,000 karma and I continue to do the meaningless repetitive events in Orr… Why? Not sure really. Trying to validate my reasons for playing and acting like there is something to do I guess.

This game desperately needs something to do at the end game still. And FotM doesn’t cut it. I can’t put my finger on what it needs but what it doesn’t need is a theme park ride through the same dungeons over and over. This “living, breathing world” needs some air pumped in to it lungs. It feels like an endless loop of reruns to me. More events. More challenging open world bosses. It needs a meta game built into the open world where we can actually affect things instead of waiting 15 minutes for things to reset and doing the same event again.

felivear.1536:

Darnis.4056:

That’s what I read the Op’s message as..
“Elementalists need an attunement swap CD”

Like either a hard CD as in you are only able to switch every 10 seconds.
Or a soft CD 0.25 Seconds of CD after switching

Edit; Edits in both posts for clarity.

I think the OP is saying that there should be no weapon swap CDs for any class. He understands the current CD placed on eles (attunement swapping CD that prevents you from going back to that attunement for 8-12 seconds) because of the buffs you get for attunement swapping (tier 1 arcana trait).

What I would like to see is all classes end up like Engineer kits. You can swap to them at any time, add initiative cost for thief swap and remove the trait that gives buffs to eles.

Well since we’re going for balance. Since eles have access to 4 skill bars with all different types of damage and CC options. Let’s go ahead and give every other class 4 weapon sets that they can swap between. I mean it’s only fair right? Eles get 20 abilities and everyone else gets 10? How did this make it into the game and considered balanced?

urinfamousr.7631:

Yasha.5963:

Khyras.8021:

Xfusion.2931:

this games balance in amazing for how short it has been up… epsc considering there is so many builds. We need a ladder and stuff will be better and a reason to pvp.

5 mesmers ( and 15 clones) vs 5 warriors who wins? Balance is not amazing in any way, except maybe amazingly bad.Imagine a person who PvPs in wow for example and decides to try PvP in GW2 what is his experience? He sees mage who can turn him to sheep (moa) for 10 sec and he cant trinket it nor does it break on dmg and has mirror images up at all times with no “target nearest player” option, rogue who can vanish as many times as he wants during combat and can spam his high dmg abilities etc. Allowing those unfair and annoying mechanics in pvp is utterly nonsensical, most people that left probably just LOLed then uninstalled the game.One game mode ( boring one) no deserter debuff etc ofc people are going to leave.

Seems like an unfortunate comparison. In the game you compare to I recall DKs deathgripping and oneshotting, thief one-shotting or stunlocking to death, paladin faceroll tanks, priests/healers that were impossible to kill- and more. Until you were able to grind away to get the top gear pvp in that game was far, far more unbalanced than gw2.

I “lol” at the amount of time most other mmos demand that you spend getting crushed by overgeared players until you have grinded enough pvp and pve to at last fight on an even footing.

If you gave gw2 the same chance as you gave those gear-grind games, you would play enough to know that there is a counter build to most things (everything?). Your comment is like someone who enters WoW BGs at level 10-20 and gets repeatedly thrashed by twinks and then writes the whole thing off as stupid (well in wow’s case it might be true).

The difference in gw2 is that you don’t grind for gear, you grind for skill.

this is just so untrue when in 8v8 at some point or another ur gonna get ganked by 2 thiefs doing HS 8x in a row at u and there is only so many times a person can dodge b4 their taking 5k Hs’s from behind. you can have all the skill u want but when ur playing in random pug groups cant communicate well with ur team and being perma rooted/KD/stunned there is no “learning curve” u can evade that one thief ur fighting just to get BS by the one who krept on u from behind invis rooted/basilik u and inn.3 sec ur dead in wut was a “decent” fight…

you can have all the skills u want but when CORE Mechiancs are broken there is nothign u can do but live with… move on or roll the same classes and take advantage of the broken mechanics urself.. which all = no fun

There is more bursting in GW2 than there ever was in WoW. SInce GW2 everyone has the same gear you can’t compare a WoW full resilience gladiator to a full greens casual. We’re putting both WoW opponents in full PvP epics. The fights last much longer. This game is wayyyyy too bursty.

Zodian.6597:

Khyras.8021:

Xfusion.2931:

this games balance in amazing for how short it has been up… epsc considering there is so many builds. We need a ladder and stuff will be better and a reason to pvp.

5 mesmers ( and 15 clones) vs 5 warriors who wins? Balance is not amazing in any way, except maybe amazingly bad.Imagine a person who PvPs in wow for example and decides to try PvP in GW2 what is his experience? He sees mage who can turn him to sheep (moa) for 10 sec and he cant trinket it nor does it break on dmg and has mirror images up at all times with no “target nearest player” option, rogue who can vanish as many times as he wants during combat and can spam his high dmg abilities etc. Allowing those unfair and annoying mechanics in pvp is utterly nonsensical, most people that left probably just LOLed then uninstalled the game.One game mode ( boring one) no deserter debuff etc ofc people are going to leave.

This is the learning curve i’m talking about. These mechanics that are very easy to counter once learned, hitting 5 for instance, while Moa’d by a Mesmer will completely disengage you from a fight. Dropping a few AOE’s while a thief is in stealth, and simply evading at ~2 seconds after they vanish will usually mitigate their backstab burst. These are mechanics easily learned through playing the game for an extended period of time, GW2 simply lacks a hook to keep new players playing because there’s no way to simply “jump in” to spvp matches on equal terms. Hotjoin is a huge mess on the 8v8 spectrum because it’s almost always uneven teams just zerging points with 6+ ppl.

The spvp systems currently in place are almost designed to create as much frustration in new players as possible; you want to play with friends?- sure jump in hotjoin, have fun on opposite teams! You want to duo queue frees with friend?- sure, gl vs that premade in VOIP! You want to get better at the game as an individual?- uhh… teamgame bro… teamgame….

idk, perhaps i’m too harsh. It’s just so frustrating when spvp casual playerbase could ESILY be growing and not shrinking, the l2p frustrations are things simply learned over time in any game (i remember my first weak in league of legends lmao “MASTER YI SO OP OMG”), it just has to be an enjoyable ride, and for that you need a sense of progression and a way to simply have fun with friends in a casual environment.

Notice he completely ignored the original scenario? 5 warriors vs 5 mesmers who wins? You don’t have to answer because every single person on these forums already knows. The game has way too many factors of a fight that are not controlled by the player. Too many pets. Too many AOE circles. Too many things other than player vs player.

Downed state is terrible. It should just be removed from the game. (PvP only. It’s still useful in PvE.) People should be instantly dead. Increase the out of combat rez speed so if you actually clear an OBJ you can rez your dead AFTER the fight.

Would be the first step in realizing why no one plays sPvP.

Kakeru.2873:

Spvp is terrible really, every friend who enjoys pvp i know has left this game due to how terrible it is and it put a bad taste in their mouths and mine. They would need a complete overhaul of SPvP to actually get people wanting to play this again.

And as this id now Casual Wars 2 i doubt that will ever happen

^ Agreed. sPvP is a joke. The less than 100 people clinging to it in paid tournys are in denial. Hoping a population will form. It won’t. The PvP is fundamentally flawed and needs an overhaul from the ground up. AOE vs OBJ and other random clusterfu&$ is not a challenging PvP experience. This game went way too hard on the fire and forget attacks and AI controlled pets and too weak on actual targeted skill shots.

Liewec.2896:

i think thats one reason attunement eles are as strong as they are, they can use skills constantly where as other classes get 4 skills and then just auto attack while their 4 skills are on CD, or weapon swap getting 4 more but disabling the other s for 10 seconds.

ele can burn through 4 skills, burn through 4 more, burn through 4 more, burn through 4 more and then start over!

^^^^^^^^^ BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM A dev needs to read this. Seriously. How did you not notice this when making the game? I was on the ele forums a few days ago and they actually refer to other classes as AUTO ATTACK classes and say that’s why they play ele because everything else is boring.

Please make your game better. I’m the last man standing out of a group of 10 friends who bought this game. I hyped it the most so it would be too much to admit I was wrong and quit so I’m sticking it out. lol Don’t make me look stupid!

Geewoody.2017:

It’s to filter out bad people. Maybe you’ve never played free tournaments, but usually I end up facing a team of rank 1s 90% of the time.

I have NEVER paid for tickets and I have more than I will ever need sitting in my bank just from dailies and crafting.

Flawed logic. It’s a cash grab to get people to buy tickets. How are people supposed to get better if they only face other bad players? The fact of the matter is there is no match making system because there is no one playing sPvP. You can go look at the hot join sPvP guy and count the people on the servers. Less than 300-500 people playing at prime time. That server search is cross server. That’s EVERYONE. No one plays sPvP.

They need to figure out a way to make the game enjoyable so people will actually populate it then maybe they could have a matchmaking funtion.

Currently conquest clusterfu&$ mode doesn’t offer the competition most people are looking for. They want player vs player combat. Not AOE circle vs objective combat.

Seriously who thought one game mode would be sufficient for this game? What MMO that has PvP battlegrounds only has one type of game mode? The one with no one playing it. tee hee

The point is they need to remove that “Only certain classes with teleports can get to this terrain crap”

You want to make an E-Sport? That’s exactly NOT how to do it. That is the worst game balance I’ve seen in a long time. Only places you have a walking path to should be able to be ported to. And I don’t mean just because you can run around a sprialing staircase. I mean a direct walking path so all the teleport is doing is basically making you walk really fast to that location.

Otherwise you have an unbalanced game and another reason no one plays it competitively. GG Fix your game.

I’m starting to refer to this game as clusterF$&K wars. PvE and PvP have wayyyyyy too many EVERYTHING. From engineer medic bags laying on the ground to mesmer clones to necro circles. There is just too much visual crap going on. I’m not talking from a performance stand point. I run 60FPS while streaming at 720p. I mean it just makes the game look stupid and clusterf&$ky.

I came upon this though when I actually started playing my copy of Chivalry: Medieval Combat today on Steam that I haven’t played since launch. We got to talking on vent and had the conversation “Wouldn’t this game be awesome if they made an MMO with this kind of combat?” And everyone agreed. YES I would play that!

Guild Wars 2 seems like it is throwing everything including the kitchen sink at people to try to grab their interest. When quite frankly I think the game would be much more interesting if it were toned down.

I’m not complaining that it’s too hard. I think the difficulty is fine. There is just way too much going on in combat. When I’m in a 5v5 pvp match and I have to press tab 14 times to get to an actual player that is a little bit ridiculous. Does anyone agree?

I’m not advertising Chivalry. In fact I think it’s really buggy and sometimes frustrating. I just think it’s depth comes from it’s simplicity. Players fighting players. I never got the rush from playing GW2 PvP that I got from playing just 2 days on Chivalry.

Every game comes out and it’s not what I expected. When Age of Conan launched I thought it was going to be some skill based PvP kinda like Mount & Blade but in MMO form… It wasn’t. It was just another clone with fatalities and a active block system.

Then GW2 came out. I thought it was going to be a game changer. It’s still just your basic auto attack tab target MMO with an active dodge roll you can use twice every few seconds.

Maybe it’s my own fault for expecting too much. I just think some minor tweaks to this combat system could make this game into the best MMO ever created.

TL;DR Need more players vs monsters/players and less players vs pets/clones/circles. Skill shots. Not fire and forget.

I don’t think sPvP has a learning curve… Many high profile live streamers flocked to GW2 on release and left just as quickly because it is immediately recognizable as an imbalanced PvP game. The people who stayed all populate the most OP and imbalanced class/traits possible and pretty much live on a loop playing against the same teams day in and day out because there is no sPvP community.

The first step is to not live in denial and make excuses that the game didn’t have enough popularity or people didn’t know how to play. The people played it and didn’t like it and moved on. Address that. Fix the game. Maybe people will come back.

Sand Beagle.9867:

I disagree about the GS being the least useful. Every greatsword skill is extremely useful, and i think the greatsword is probably the best weapon in the game in terms of skills. It is probably one of the if not the most versatile weapons in the game.

1. Autoattack is very strong and reasonably fast, can crit for 2k+ on regular swings.
2. 100b
3. Whirlwind, one of the better skills in the game, can hit for 8k+ on crits, can be used for mobility, and does aoe damage; also short cooldown.
4. Bladetrail is 900 range, gives basically a 5 second cripple, AND can hit the target twice for around 2k+ per.
5. Rush is a 1200 range fast moving attack that can be used for mobility and can also hit for 4k+ damage.

Really, to me, the other weapons are an absolute joke in comparison, and i think that might be one of the reasons why the only viable warrior temp is 100b atm. There is no reason not to use the greatsword when it has skills like that.

Ok I did come on too strongly hating on the GS. What I meant was it offers DPS and a bit of mobility.

I prefer control. I get way more control from axe/mace and hammer than I could ever get out of anything the GS offers. Having a stun up pretty much 100% of the time I feel is way more useful than a instant kill on newbies every 60 seconds.

Nothing more satisfying than killing someone from full to dead while stunlocked for their entire health bar.

daydream.2938:

Blink has a 30 second cooldown :P

The CD isn’t the problem. The fact that it is possible is the problem. It’s not balanced even if every class had it. Some areas in the game are drawn with no foot path to get to them. I’m spefically thinking of the little crane with boards on it at the mine on Forests of Niflhel. The only way up there is with a teleport. So if you’re a ranged class and you TP up there you have free reign over all melee at the mine with no counter.

zone.1073:

Another wrong move and they can swap to shortbow, shadow shot up an impossible-to-reach ledge.

This is one of the most broken mechanics in the game IMO.

In order to shadowstep, shadow shot, teleport, etc. Any kind of mobility ability should have a ground path requirement to get there. That is flat out imbalanced if a class can get to terrain that other classes can’t.

I think some people keep nailing it right on the head… ANet has said since launch warrior is exactly where they want it to be. That’s why every patch there are no changes to the warrior except spelling errors in tooltips. So if every other class does everything better they’re just going to get brought down. Who cares if it takes them 6 months it’s not like there is anything going on in the mists anyway.

As far as all their weapon sets I’ve said over and over in this thread and I’ll continue to say it. GS offers the least versatility other than BC, frenzy, HB and a bit of mobility. If you only have one attack the enemy will always outplay you. Axe/mace and hammer is by far my favorite setup that offers the most control and options. Personally I never run with bulls charge on my bar. But if you added that to axe/mace and hammer. That’s almost 10 seconds of stun/knockdown. I’ll take that over a frenzy HB burst any day.

I don’t know why we’re all ignoring the elephant in the room that more than half the classes in this game are OP and the game is no where near ready for competitive play. There is no reason to buff the warrior when everything is working fine. Other classes with endless mobility options need to be brought down to having escapes but not endless escapes.

Instead of putting the fire to the developer to make a really competitive game everyone is in here arguing over broken classes and game imbalance.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Schwahrheit.4203:

@SandBeagle
Sorry dude if you’re going to use FGJ, Balanced Stance, and Frenzy, then the game shouldn’t be balanced around people like you.

Like RIOT games don’t even balance characters on NEGATIVE ELO players, so give me a good reason on why ANET should balance around people who didn’t take the time to make a class work and complains about it when they play bad and do bad utilities?

ANET did mention that “top players” in their class should do something. So here’s my verdict. I say me and defektive become the authority on the Warrior class. Why? Because me and defektive make builds other than Axe + GS work in tPvP. And we actually see the Warrior more than Axe + GS.

http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/b/359978993

Niflhel match. 13:00 minutes in “Troll” Warrior builds vs. Axe + GS high QP players.

The hubris pouring from this post literally knocked me backwards out of my office chair. I was unconscious until a co-worker splashed cold water on my face, and when asked what was wrong, I couldn’t even find the words to explain it.

Instead of flashing “hidden knowledge” about the viability of several alternate builds for Warriors in top-level PvP, why aren’t there any discussions on the details of these builds and how exactly they fulfill tournament roles in a way that puts them on par with other classes in the game? Or, if not on par, why the performance of the build is sufficient to perform the role without too much degradation in potential/quality?

Examine the builds, theorycraft gameplay, but don’t make sweeping generalizations about viability based on nothing other than random subjective opinion.

Please. I’d love to read/involve myself in a discussion about Warriors, but this thread isn’t going anywhere meaningful. How do you inject yourself into a conversation where the only content is “Warriors can do X.” “No, they can’t.” “Yes, they can.” “No, they can’t.” “They can, you’re just bad.” Robble robble robble.

And if someone is going to provide video evidence, at least make it moderately impressive.

Because there isn’t a “tournament level”. There are 100 individuals playing the game together. Stuck in a vacuum. Never learning anything new because of the lack of a PvP community.

There are no “hardcore” PvPers here. There are pretend hardcores. If they were really hardcore they would be playing a game with an actual community to test their skills. Or sitting back and practicing and waiting for the game to become competitive. I relax in the latter group. No sense getting all covered in nerd sweat over a game that currently doesn’t offer competition.

Personally I like coming on the forums and reading these inflated posts about the “meta”. How can you have a meta with less than 100 players competing at a tournament level? Big fish small pond I think is a good analogy for the competition in this game. Wow… You’re better than 99 people. Someone get that guy a trophy.

Once the game is ready for competition you will see the community start to build and populate. Until then I’ll be quietly practicing and learning what works. You can keep reading forums and wondering why that guy can do it and you can’t.

SPvP isn’t server specific. I’ve played with people from Ehmry Bay and some other servers and I’m on Yak’s Bend.

Defektive.7283:

Wreckdum.8367:

Schwahrheit.4203:

^
Not trying to offend you or anything but coming from a guy who uses FGJ, Bulls Charge, and Frenzy in PvP, I honestly think you should just stop talking because you clearly never worked on your class and you are asking for an over-buff like people did for Ele’s. It just isn’t cool when you whine about how a class isn’t cutting it for you when you’re doing bad on your Warrior too.

1.) Warrior AoE’s better than a Thief, let alone downs better than a Thief. More rewarding if you build around a Warrior with a good AoE knowledge and build, however 95% of Warriors aren’t worth building for cause simple-mind and lack of build knowledge.

Where’s my back up on this one? Compare combustive shot + arcing arrow DPS to cluster bomb. Long Bow (Berserker Amulet) wins by a long shot. Don’t even get me started on how HB is actually better team damage than back stab.

2.) Tank Warrior is more mobile than a Guardian, let alone sets up kills for the team easier while having on-demand slow cleanse for the team and himself. If you weren’t bad at this game then it should be obvious that there are plays you can do with mobility.

3.) Warrior compared to Ranger? Rangers can’t burst. Let alone punish harder than a Warrior who knows how to make Combustive Shot and HB do work in team fights. Like a Warrior can easily out-damage a Ranger in team play to be honest. Rangers have tankiness as a trade-off to having decent DPS. Warriors trade survivability for amazing AoE DPS.

Building a team around a Warrior isn’t a problem because guess what? What team isn’t going to have an immobilize, stun, or condition cleanse for team mates? If you weren’t a garbage Warrior then you could easily take advantage of these things.

It is a communication awareness and learn to play issue, that’s just it. Warrior doesn’t need to be over-buffed just because 95% of the Warrior population isn’t cutting it.

I’ve said this before all you need to compliment a “good” Warrior is slow cleanse, and that’s it.

There is definitely a reason to pick a Warrior over a Ranger, Thief and Guard. However 95% of Warriors aren’t even worth playing with or worth building for.

P.S It’d be great if people could just admit that they’re unskilled at a class if its not cutting it for them. Its pathetic that people are in denial and ANET makes bad balancing decisions on this certain denial.

I play Ranger and when we lose because of it, I immediately know its because I lack Ranger knowledge. I have no idea why people can’t just admit that they’re unskilled Warriors..

^ that

Sounds to me like faceroll warriors from some other game we won’t mention came over here and expected things to be as easy.

YA.

Our conversation here just proves that hammer longbow is a viable build in PvP!
We don’t need win ratios, a team comp, or any types of ‘facts’ to back this up!

DOWN WITH THE INFIDELS! HAMMER IS BACK

Hammer never left. Baddies are just obsessed with the 3 button combo that fails most of the time against a half decent player.

We’ve all already agreed that GS is a 1 trick pony. Any one who even runs sPvP hot joins knows how to not get hit by a GS.

Use some forward thinking. Why build a strategy around something that will no doubt be gone/redesigned in less than a few months.

And how would you expect to get any new ideas when it’s the same less than 20 teams playing each other over and over in paid tournaments? All emulating each others play style.

Is there even any prestige in being considered the #1 GW2 paid tournament team? It’s a pool of less than 100 people. There were still 20 people playing Halo 2 PC online a couple weeks ago.

Long story short. You don’t think for yourself you emulate forums builds. You don’t evolve PvP you stagnate it.

Asomal.6453:

Of course is for the skin! In fact, I think it would be a great factor to attract more people to pvp, even those who are not playing the game. Like wise, if someone upload a pvp video, wearing some sick gears + legendary, one could wonder “wow this game’s combat looks epic!”.
Oh and please, aside from legendaries, also include other skins like Essence of Foefire, the elementalist wind hammer (dun remember it’s pve name), Immobulus, Fire Staff…(include ALL the possible skins avaible, to pvp :P )

Mjolnir! It’s the same name as Thor’s 1h hammer!

Schwahrheit.4203:

^
Not trying to offend you or anything but coming from a guy who uses FGJ, Bulls Charge, and Frenzy in PvP, I honestly think you should just stop talking because you clearly never worked on your class and you are asking for an over-buff like people did for Ele’s. It just isn’t cool when you whine about how a class isn’t cutting it for you when you’re doing bad on your Warrior too.

1.) Warrior AoE’s better than a Thief, let alone downs better than a Thief. More rewarding if you build around a Warrior with a good AoE knowledge and build, however 95% of Warriors aren’t worth building for cause simple-mind and lack of build knowledge.

Where’s my back up on this one? Compare combustive shot + arcing arrow DPS to cluster bomb. Long Bow (Berserker Amulet) wins by a long shot. Don’t even get me started on how HB is actually better team damage than back stab.

2.) Tank Warrior is more mobile than a Guardian, let alone sets up kills for the team easier while having on-demand slow cleanse for the team and himself. If you weren’t bad at this game then it should be obvious that there are plays you can do with mobility.

3.) Warrior compared to Ranger? Rangers can’t burst. Let alone punish harder than a Warrior who knows how to make Combustive Shot and HB do work in team fights. Like a Warrior can easily out-damage a Ranger in team play to be honest. Rangers have tankiness as a trade-off to having decent DPS. Warriors trade survivability for amazing AoE DPS.

Building a team around a Warrior isn’t a problem because guess what? What team isn’t going to have an immobilize, stun, or condition cleanse for team mates? If you weren’t a garbage Warrior then you could easily take advantage of these things.

It is a communication awareness and learn to play issue, that’s just it. Warrior doesn’t need to be over-buffed just because 95% of the Warrior population isn’t cutting it.

I’ve said this before all you need to compliment a “good” Warrior is slow cleanse, and that’s it.

There is definitely a reason to pick a Warrior over a Ranger, Thief and Guard. However 95% of Warriors aren’t even worth playing with or worth building for.

P.S It’d be great if people could just admit that they’re unskilled at a class if its not cutting it for them. Its pathetic that people are in denial and ANET makes bad balancing decisions on this certain denial.

I play Ranger and when we lose because of it, I immediately know its because I lack Ranger knowledge. I have no idea why people can’t just admit that they’re unskilled Warriors..

^ that

Sounds to me like faceroll warriors from some other game we won’t mention came over here and expected things to be as easy.

Wreckdum.8367:

Clearly the warrior doesn’t have a comparable bunker build to some of the other classes. Which I think is fine. We shouldn’t be brought up to the OP level of most bunkers. They should be brought down to exactly where the warrior is.

Braxxus.2904:

And then the burst builds reign and there’d be no reason to run anything other than 5 full zerker 1-hitter-quitters on your team. Also this goes against your statement above about having super burst being bad design. The counter to uber burst are bunkers.

But they don’t reign is my point… I’m comparing it to my build. I can stand in a glass cannon warriors HB and still be at 70% HP. I can stand in front of a Thief and still be at 60-70% HP after he runs himself out of initiative. And after they fail at killing me I can easily mop the floor with them SOLO. I was just saying the 2h hammer sets up some easy mode 2v1’s or however many of your team happen to be around.

All I’m saying is a smart player just needs time. Bad players spec to get the other guy down as fast as possible because they lack the ability to move and think. Or they don’t care about strategy and want what they think is an easy win.

Which brings me to the bigger issue with tPvP. Their version of conquest game mode is flawed. Classes shouldn’t have to be redesigned because of the bad system. The only reason bunkers are so popular is because they can sit on a point. This terrible version of conquest rewards bunker spec by having the defending team only needing one person standing on an OBJ. When in reality if two enemies are there and one defender the bar should be moving slowly towards the team with two players.

Fixing this system that rewards bunkers would have people suddenly not playing that spec anymore because it would lose the strongest part of it’s viability.

Where specs like mine would still be useful because it still pushes A LOT of damage and it still is very survivable. And it’s not pigeonholed into a single role… You can do pretty much everything except one shot someone. You wont lose to burst damage. You won’t lose to condi damage. Heavy CC, high damage. You call the shots.

But all this back and forth really is useless because 6 months from now PvP will most likely be unrecognizable from the state it’s in now. There are at most only a few hundred maybe a couple thousand of us that actually play PvP. Why? Because the rest of the players immediately saw how flawed it was and moved in. What did we do? We put up with it and complain about how our specs or characters aren’t strong enough even though the game mode is fundamentally flawed.

Geewoody.2017:

Believe it or not, 1,000,000 glory is not a lot. >.>

Your definition of a lot is not the same as the rest of the world. If you were getting 400 glory EVERY game. Which most people are NOT. It would still take 2,500 games for you to get 1,000,000 glory.

No condi removal? Maybe. If you spec glass cannon… What do you expect? There is a thing called a soldier rune. There are things called shouts that warriors can use.

I’ve found the best possible combo for my playstyle is soldier runes on my armor. Soldier amulet for a good blend of power, toughness and vitality. You’ll have only 4% crit but with SoR up going in to combat you’ll be at 24% for any fight.

This isn’t a one trick pony. This is setting up team mates to knock people out of the park. You keep slobbering over the GS… You have the option to bring a hammer which is arguable the best control weapon you have.

Stop obsessing with trying to be a 1 hitter quitter. IMO the fact that those are even an option is bad PvP design. A good fight isn’t a guy pressing 2 buttons and someones stun break not being up so they lose. It should be drawn out giving each opponent a chance to make moves and be countered.

My build has right under 30K hp. 2K toughness. Shouts heal. Shouts remove conditions. Attack is right at 3150 unbuffed. I can’t 1 shot anyone. But I can CC them mostly from full to dead. This obviously won’t work against a bunker. But I am borderline bunker built as it is. I can easily entertain 3 people from the other team while staying on an objective. Of course I’ll die but I can keep it contested and not capping until people have a chance to come back.

Clearly the warrior doesn’t have a comparable bunker build to some of the other classes. Which I think is fine. We shouldn’t be brought up to the OP level of most bunkers. They should be brought down to exactly where the warrior is. Ever since I’ve gone this spec I’ve had more fun in PvP and WvW being that my average time spent alive and in melee range ruining people’s day has gone through the roof.

And don’t throw it under the bus for not having a bajillion percent crit chance. 24% is decent and with 3150 attack unbuffed you easily climb up towards 4K with the right setup and sigils.

Like I said. I would NEVER go back to glass cannon after being this survivable and pushing as much damage as I do.

Pretty good idea. Crafting definitely needs an overhaul. I see legendary weapons as a gimmick to get people to buy gold through the item store. It’s sad that the hardest part of grinding a legendary is the monetary part.

I would love crafting to actually produce items of value. I also think them allowing everyone to do everything in crafting on one character ruined the market value. Why would I get anyone else to make me stuff when i have 400 in everything?

Revan.6259:

We don’t have outhouses. We have water closets.

Like, latrines?

No. They go into the same sewer system, and it all goes out to sea.

That’s more than I really needed to know.

Elthurien.8356:

Remove the customer and the business will wither away. Gold Buyers should be banned just as much as gold sellers. The problem begins with gold buyers, It should be made public knowledge that buying gold outside of the Black Lion Trader is an offence that is punishable by an account ban. I do not understand why players still do this, it is such an unsafe thing to do and usually ends up with the account being stolen anyway.

Then offer a competitive price. 50 dollars in gems for 40 something gold will get you well over 200 gold from our friends in the far east.

They offer the gem to gold option as convenience… I call it robbery.

You’re right I rambled A LOT. My main point I kept trying to stomp in the ground is there needs to be a longer reveal debuff. Even if there was no culling at all. 3 seconds… Factoring in we may need to tab target or click on them again to regain target whichever is faster. That leaves us almost no time to actually get off an attack considering every ability in the game has a short delay “cast time” before it actually fires off. There are very few instant cast abilities in this game.

Like I said if you are the opponent you spend a lot of time not playing the game. Only in short windows do you actually get to do something. And predicting a Thieves movement… How exactly do you do that when he can see you and you can’t see him? He just has to move wherever you’re not going. lol

But not in application. Sure when I play my Thief it is fun to spend 80% of the fight chain stealthing myself and being visible for the minimum 3 seconds after an attack… But it’s not fun for everyone else having to deal with it.

You can live in denial, or play a Thief and get defensive. But an opponent to a good Thief is a spectator in PvP. Notice I said a good Thief. Obviously not a HS spammer.

Mesmer is the same. You think saturating an already zerged battlefield in clones was a good idea? Maybe on paper. But once you put it in the game and realize there isn’t one Mesmer on the battlefield but actually a large chunk of them… chaos ensues. And they get stealth on top of that.

I’ve almost hit 1000 hours logged in game. And that is not AFKing in LA. I log out when I’m not playing. I think I’ve spent a good enough time in WvW and PvP to offer my opinion. It cheapens the experience for everyone playing against any of these classes.

Any system you put in place that makes the opponent a spectator and unable to participate in the fight turns people off. In that fight you are only entertaining 50% of the players. The same can be said about some of the terrible dungeon design. I guess you had a lapse on ideas for designing good boss encounters so you saturate it with knockdowns, stuns and fears preventing you from taking action for the majority of the fight until dead. And I always run with a 10s stability on my bar but some of these fights are just so cheesy with the CC spam it doesn’t even matter. Resulting in the most common strategy for non fractal dungeons. The WP zerg. Kudos for admitting it though in some of the livestreams and committing to redesign most of the fights and remove WP zerging.

A lot of this sounds whiny but GW2 is my favorite MMO. For a glimpse at my inner nerd. I was contracting in Iraq 2011. Most of the chances I got on the internet besides Facebooking family and friends was checking updates on the progress of GW2. I think it is a great game. But I also think there are a lot of cheesy systems in place where mechanics are being taken advantage of and even bad players can be considered good using them. (AOE spam being the obvious future nerf we’ve all been /facepalming about since launch.)

Obviously I don’t think Thieves or Mesmers should lose stealth all together. Maybe increase the “revealed” debuff time limit. Possibly making it appear as soon as they leave stealth rather than when they attack someone. And with the give and take design philosophy if you’ve built the Thief survivability on them being untargetable 80% of the fight maybe you could give them a 2x or 3x passive endurance regen. They retain survivability. Become more Thief-like being agile and whatnot. But gives the rest of us a chance to participate in the fight.

The point I’m trying to make is remove the cheese factor to some of the classes. I remember when I was reading the pre release hype. I read GW2 Thieves don’t have perma stealth like WoW. Don’t want that cheesy factor in our game. I would argue that a rogue in WoW is actually less cheap to fight because once they are out of stealth that’s it, other than a long cooldown combat stealth. I think you could mix the two and hit that perfect sweet spot. Give thieves a longer stealth going in to the fight. Maybe a 15 second stealth or 20 seconds to get them from safety to their target. Then once that first hit goes off they can’t stealth again. Other than maybe a utility button. But not using initiative. Then just give them more endurance or whatever would balance out the loss of chain stealth.

I know I got repetitive saying the same thing in more than one paragraph. Oh well. I hope everyone can find it in their heart to forgive me if they tackled this wall of text to this point. =D

Many of the points in this thread are why ele’s need a nerf. Mainly “You don’t ever have to aim or target anyone and can run around rolling your face on the keyboard.”

I hate people saying that because an ele has 4 elemental aspects they require more brain capacity to play. That might be true if they were squishy and you were in any danger of taking damage or having to aim at people. >.>

Would it be possible to get one of those? lol

Sometimes I just want to hop on and relax and chop people’s faces off. I don’t want to have to worry about strategy when I don’t even know the people on my team. We need a game mode that offers less team play and rewards more for individual effort. If we’re a bunch of randoms smashed on to a team how can we be expected to work well together?

I’m asking as an additional mode. Not to replace conquest. People who want to play that could still play. And people who want to be dropped into the octagon can go in there and beat each other bloody. =D

XiL.4318:

Rambodacious.7495:

Xil, so what is this “one true meta” you speak of that can destroy all other metas? Enlighten us.

There is no meta. It is imaginary. That is the point. You chase the dragon. Like a heroin addict chasing the perfect high. That high is imaginary. Just like the meta.

You create the meta by chasing it.

You know why the top teams are the top teams? Because they spend countless hours practicing together. Their builds mean nothing. Their strats mean nothing. All that matters is that those players are collectively chasing the meta and in doing so creating it.

The forum meta is 3rd party, wiki inspired, theorycrafted, nonsense when it is not entirely fabricated just to troll, that is. The only way to get good is to chase the meta, the only way to chase the meta is to play the game as often as you possibly can. There is no secret. No uber builds, no stacked classes, just well motivated players playing together often and with synergy.

That is the real meta. Everything else is the imagination of basement dwellers.

Boom!

I am soooooooo tired of hearing the word meta in random 16 player sPvP games. People talk about their “leety mcleetsauce” experience more than they actually play the game.

It’s the same thing in the shooting world. You have your avid shooters who do it because we enjoy marksmanship. Then you have your “operators” who show up at a shooting range inside the safety of the continental United States with their gun all beefed up looking like something out of a Call of Duty game.

The long and the short is. They are both the same type of people. Chasing the prestige not actually doing it because it is a hobby they enjoy.

Syeria.4812:

MistyMountains.3751:

Also I dont think people understand what toughness even does, or how armor works.

Every + toughness adds to total armor (not actually sure the exact amount I know its not a 1:1 ratio though) armor adds 1% dmg reduction every 100…

So 2k armor gives a 20% dmg reduction (basic glass cannon build) while 3k armor gives about 30% dmg reduction (average beefy dps build) [generally bunkers have around 3500 armor]

So what you’re telling hims is that 10% more dmg reduction would completely fix 27k dmg…cus im pretty sure it would only turn it into 24.3k which for most classes even build tanky that equals dead…

But no please keep replying with “omg newb u is so bad glass cannon build toughness” We got a balanced game over here guys move along >.> no editing required during the first year of release

That’s not even close to how armor works. The damage formula is:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Going from 2k armor to 3k armor reduces damage by an additional 33%. That means going from 2k to 3k armor reduces that 27k damage to 18k damage, not the 24.3k that your wholly uninformed post tries to claim.

As for toughness, armor is equal to defense (from equipment) plus toughness. Adding 1 point of toughness increases armor by 1.

So you wrote out that long explanation to explain he is wrong… Yet anyone other than a warrior and maybe 1 or 2 other classes in full vitality gear are the only ones with a health pool big enough to survive it. o.O

CrazyRabidSquirrel.9274:

So it’s not a bug, and the Burst Damage is basically worthless?

Probably because eviserate already crits for between 4-6K on my warrior who is in full power, toughness, vitality gear and traits 10/0/30/30/0.

I can’t even imagine what it would hit for with a DPS trait spec and berserker armor.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Interesting suggestion but yeah.. Jay has a point.

Real complicated…

If the banner is yours then grant F1.

Else no F1.

Rocket science there.