(edited by Xae.7204)
Warriors complaining about “sustain” is hilarious.
Apparently the highest health and highest armor values in the game isn’t enough. Warrior “sustain” is a massive EHP pool. Other classes get sustain that they have to trait into just to equal a warriors natural advantages.
Lets put Warriors in cloth and lowest HP pool for a while. They are so spoiled they don’t value what they have.
Please. Now you want to redefine my post to suit your needs? I know what dominant means. What I stated was factual.
Enough. Deimos, stop trolling this thread.
no, not to suit my needs, because you are attempting to spread wrong information. this is uncalled for.
what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular, you did not and can not prove that warriors are dominant.
warriors are popular, but they are not dominant.
enough, Thedenofsin, stop spreading incorrect information about warriors.
tPVP/sPvP/solo – the side with the most warriors will win the vast majority of the time. proof.
wvw zergs – the side with the most warriors will win the vast majority of the time. Double warrior is still the meta and is only defeated by teams that are vastly better coordinated. proof
dungeons/fractals – take a look at LFG. 4warrior+mesmer (TW bot) for the fastest clears. proof.
open world events – Warriors will get the most karma and the fastest kills. Look at any tutorial video on how to grind karma the fastest and it will state that warrior is the best. proof.
There’s your proof. If you want more, then go find it yourself.
Deimos, I am shocked at how blind you are to your own bias. Are you some kind of shill for the developers?
If warriors are truly balanced, then you would not see these kinds of threads, and so many of them. The only people who try to defend warriors are the people that actually play them.
what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular,<snip>
I stated warriors are dominant, not popular. Stop trolling this thread.
Warriors are so OP that they can’t even be moderated on the forums. Deimos is trolling and mods never stop him.
It is a good test to see how many weeks it can go before they notice it.
In other MMOs, often the unique class has a bit more of a following.
Not in my experience. Wardens in LOTRO (my main) are just as rare as Engis in GW2. To me the Engineer being the quirky and unique class explains it just fine.
Wardens were also released years after the other classes and have a bit of a “quirk” where you have to completely relearn your entire class and class mechanic in the low 50s that irritates people and drives them off. Also for the longest time they were viewed as a solo-only class.
There are a couple of very fundamental problems with Engineers that will never be addressed. Engineers were thrown together at the last minute in beta and the developers didn’t notice that the class “core mechanics” are 100% contrary to the games “core mechanics”
1) Cosmetic progression vs Hobo Sacks
2) Weapon Swap vs Kits
3) “Active Gameplay” vs Turrets
4) No-Resource (Mana) vs Multiple low Value skills *
- Explanation: The primary resource in this game is cast time. Giving a class 20 bad abilities is not as good as giving a class 5 good abilities. This is because the primary resource you use is time. In other games they could balance based off mana/resource cost.
If you are playing an Engineer then you need to accept being a Second Class citizen for the remainder of the game. The writing is on the wall, we need to accept it. ArenaNet developers are far more interested in constantly tweaking their personal Mary Sue classes (Guardian, Warrior, Thief) than in fixing the broken classes that they do not play (Ranger, Engineer, Elementalist).
(edited by Xae.7204)
Having 5 on one platform and 1 on another could only be a very edge case requiring several people to drop out at the right moment. Our script does exactly what you said, poker dealer style.
I don’t this this functionality is working correctly. During off hours play it is common to simply stack lane 1 and go for a bag. Even with 30-40 people in one lane we routinely see some platforms with 5 and others with 15.
1) No Horizontal Progression. Hobo sacks eliminate a huge point of “end game” content
2) High Effort – Low effect: If you can be a decent Engineer you could be an amazing <Any Thing else> and probably be more effective
Warriors haven’t been in a “bad spot” since early beta. Most of the warrior complaining early in the game was due to warriors completely face rolling in PvE ignoring mechanics like dodge or anything that wasn’t 5 signet-charge-Hundred Blades that they got owned in SPvP and assumed it was the class.
FOR ALL THE FANBOYS CRYING THAT A TRINITY IS BAD… All I have to say to destroy your poorly conceived argument of “LF Tank/Healer” and that is
LFG – Zerker gear only… oh and while you’re at it, only come with a warrior, guardian or mesmer… (-_-) You people never think.
This games combat system is severely broken and you’d have to be a complete moron to think otherwise. Atleast with roles you know what your job is, you depend on other people more and in turn they depend on you. The mechanics on boss fights including world bosses and even WvWvW would be a lot better. There is just more strategy with that system.
What do we honestly have right now? Seriously, think about it. If you have the slightest deduction capability you would answer “Everyone in the game is a DPS with minor support built into their class” that is it…
Now I understand a lot of you like being self-dependent but when everyone is self dependent… where is the teamwork? I didn’t think so.
The DPS dummies from WoW got what they wanted all along. A game with just DPS players.
Because we get these QQ post now every minute… people getting tired of this dumb kitten.
The posts about warriors continue because the class is broken and it isn’t being fixed. It’s as simple as that.
No class should combine high defense, high HP, high healing, high mobility and a super low skill floor the way warriors do.
The thing is, Warrior is the one only classes that isn’t broken and that is the problem. Thiefs can’t breath without stealth (broken), Mesmers are only good for portal, TW, veil, and spamming clones while running away (broken). Necros are kind of in a good place at the moment but it’s nall cause of 2 things Dhuumfire and Death shroud (broken). All an Engi has to do is spam all is skills and run a circle auto attacking his rifle (also broken). Eles have amazing potential but to have to be a God to play it to that effect (broken). Guardian is in a good place as well could still use a few tweaks (not broken). Rangers are just bad, aside from the spirit build in PvP they have nothing going for them, kittenty pet AI, bad trait synergy, bad weapon skills, and some of the worst players I ave ever seen controlling them( terribly broken). Like I said before, the problem is with the other classes.
You certainly aren’t wrong that other classes have been ignored or actively dumped on by ArenaNet.
Would it be wonderful if ArenaNet would get their kitten together and start making progress on class balance? YES!
But in the year+ this game has been out they have made 0 progress. I’m not looking for Class Balance Valhalla, I’m just looking for some small sign that ArenaNet isn’t clueless.
Nerfing Healing Signet would be a good start.
I honestly think the only gear that will be deeply and critically affected by this is celestial gear. And because of the hard work and money put into exotic celestial and ascended celestial, it would make sense to be allowed to change it.
I’m just glad I didn’t make any, as I had considered making it for wvw.
Unlike me. I Spent over 200 laurels for ascended trinkets, recipes and the infusions for celestial items on all my characters. I demand a refund.
This is madness.
It is a 10% nerf, at most.
People are grossly overreacting.
The question is simple: Is the class Engineer, or Grenadier?
Right now, the class is Grenadier.
When one looks at the healing signet itself it seems sort of fine. The problem is warriors get massive sustain without any investments. All you need is HS and 20 into defense and you are a sustain god. No healing gear/runes needed! This is the problem!
This is a false sense of sturdiness and a blatant example of internal imbalance. HS outshines both other heals, which would be pretty amazing on any other class themselves. Hell they are amazing for the warrior, but HS is just better.
Conclusion: HS needs a nerf, not a major one. Perhaps drop it to 300-350 hps then go from there. But the problem, as I have said, is a composite one: HS+AH+Ire with only 20 traits into defense!!!!
Holy kitten. Imagine a S/D thief with Healing Signet. LOL!
400 + 320 + 200 (regen boon) per second. On Stealth. That would be fun!
(please don’t)
Imo, make the Healing Signet a permanent Regen Boon that activates every 10 seconds for more 10 seconds. This way classes with boon steal/corrupt can counter play it.
Why should warriors be able to be countered? I mean the game is Guild WARRIORS after all.
People who chose to play non-core classes really need to adjust their expectations to be inline with their status as non-warrior classes.
I don’t see the issue.
Everyone uses the same gear, the same specs, the same weapons and the same builds.
I don’t think anyone played this game because they were expecting something other than to rush to one FOTM after another.
Sorry, but Mesmers need to be nerfed.
Only Warriors and Gaurdians are allowed to be viable.
Hey guys, let’s buff warriors more!
(Btw, I’m in a full exotic dire build).
16,000 kill shot…mmmhmm…I wish Anet would just come out and admit that the Warrior is their pet class. It’s laughable…
It is a Learn to Play issue.
If you haven’t figured out that Warriors are ArenaNet Dev’s personal Mary Sue a year into this game you aren’t playing it very well.
ANET:
we introduce ascendent armor !!Player:
QQ 450 gold to craft a full set it requires 30 laurel plenty of time gated mat QQ1 month later
Player:
Finally i’ve complete my zerker ascendend armor, it costed a lot, but now finally i’m done2 day later
Jon Peters:
We are trying to take steps to address some of the dominance of Berrserker/DPS players. More info next week, I think.is this a troll, yeah?
I WILL quit this game if Anet messes this up. I have 2 sets of zerker ascended armor made already.
Most of my friends already quit because they were tired of the boring “balls deep DPS” Zerker kitten. The change is probably too late to bring all of them back, but some of them might come back if the change is solid.
I don’t really understand how it’s boring to do DPS. Is doing less DPS and being tankier going to somehow make the game more fun? Are fights taking longer going to be more fun?
Just because you enjoy something doesn’t mean everyone else does.
ANET:
we introduce ascendent armor !!Player:
QQ 450 gold to craft a full set it requires 30 laurel plenty of time gated mat QQ1 month later
Player:
Finally i’ve complete my zerker ascendend armor, it costed a lot, but now finally i’m done2 day later
Jon Peters:
We are trying to take steps to address some of the dominance of Berrserker/DPS players. More info next week, I think.is this a troll, yeah?
I WILL quit this game if Anet messes this up. I have 2 sets of zerker ascended armor made already.
Most of my friends already quit because they were tired of the boring “balls deep DPS” Zerker kitten. The change is probably too late to bring all of them back, but some of them might come back if the change is solid.
We are trying to take steps to address some of the dominance of Berserker/DPS players. More info next week, I think.
Jon
Why don’t you guys maybe… buff condi and different builds rather than nerfing the zerker builds?
I just today got the required guild commendation for the Ascended accessory. Threw all my gold+ Laurels yesterday for the zerker Armor, Weapons, amulet + Scholar Runes and sigils. I was so happy that I finally made the most optimal build to run with my friends in organized groups. I am just hoping you don’t nerf it too hard farming those gold and laurels again for the new “meta” build just isn’t fun for me.
Look at this thread maybe?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvE-The-Problem-with-Conditions-A-Fix/first#post3477978
When your average mob dies in 5 seconds how are conditions supposed to work?
A.E.D. Suffers from being sub-par unless you trait for all other gadget traits, which then limits your choice of utility skills to at least 1 or 2 more gadgets. This means that it’s only likely to see play when you’re already using gadget AND it fits your builds playstyle.
So, it is a standard Engineer ability?
We are trying to take steps to address some of the dominance of Berserker/DPS players. More info next week, I think.
Jon
You’re a year too late for most people.
Time gating sucks and kills new player interest in the game. It is a way to lock in your existing players and suffer a slow death from attrition.
New players hate time gated gear because it means there is no way they can catch up. They hit max level, they give the old “college try” at grinding Laurels, Crafting, whatever for a couple of weeks then stop logging in.
the main attraction to celestial gear is the MF, if they got rid of the MF and didn’t put split the points between the remaining stats, there wouldn’t be much point in wearing it at all.
It depends on the class.
Elementalists and Engineers love celestial gear because all of their weapons scale on both Condition and Power/Crit.
It sucks for them that the best gear in the game for many of their specs is gated behind a rather hideous grind.
Juggernaut is as it is with FT because the FT requires you to be in/near melee range for maximum efficiency so you need protection from cleaves and other small aoe effects that do power based damage.
the might stacks from Juggernaut compensate for the investment in the firearms tree when the weapon (when used in such a “pressure” type offense) benefits from power more than pre. in fact, it is my opinion that a fully traited “in your face” ft build doesnt use the power tree at all.
juggernaut is not, however, required for using the FT.
Now that Fireforged Trigger is an adept trait, it is perfectly viable to build an entirely, crit/condi based FT build with a minimum investment of 30 points (deadly mixture/fireforged trigger) leaving 40 points to put wherever you want.
So, you’re saying Juggernaut is a bandaid for poor trait/weapon design?
Can’t really argue with that.
In my opinion it would be simply op if it worked with kits like
the grenade kit. With boon duration runes and 30 alchemy you’d simply
be able to nadespam while hitting progressively harder.
Yeah, it would be pretty broken if Engineers had a good damage spec.
yeah engi should always have a chance at beating thief IF they are good.
So, Good Engie “has a chance” against a Terrible thief?
Since you posted this in then engi forum and came back and only mentioned the guy saying “thief op” instead of the discussion where they covered this more than a month ago, here is the link that mask posted at the time. A good step by step instructional video that counters a large portion of thief tactics and counterplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4mbYlRiJw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
That video undermines your point, it was a running joke on the PvP forums.
It is against the same bad thief who does nothing but auto attack spam, not use mug and doesn’t even heal against a specialized Anti-Thief build.
And still almost wins.
oh allso ur 100% zerk gear with low hp on a low defense class. thats half ur problem. just as fast as he killed you…you can kill him just as fast regardless of class.
It is worth pointing out that an Engineer with no HP gear/talents ends up just over 15k HP.
Are you happy now, that I linked you the previous thread? Search next time. Btw note the “the day I lose 1v1 against thief on my engineer is the day I uninstall GW2” comment. But of course, it’s not your skills that are lacking, it’s the class that is OP(the general noob belief).
/thread
And of course it is never that people are playing an overpowered class. It is always that every other class is full of noobs.
[quote=2408456;Galsia.4102:]
You can do similar damage spamming grenades from 1500 range, and in aoe.
That build got the kitten nerfed out of it about 3 months ago.
Thieves are broken and overpowered. This is known.
It is not an inmobilize, it’s a problem with the game’s engine and all movement skills. Seems to be very prominent if you have your autorun on. And mind you, it’s been on since release and still not fixed. But, y’know, they priorize game breaking bugs.
I rarely have this happen on my Elementalists Ride the Lightning and NEVER after a Heart Seeker.
You, I and the rest of the World call it random.
ArenaNet calls it versatile.
There is also the whole immobilize after rocket boots that pops up from time to time.
You don’t want versatility.
Look at Engineers and see what happens when you get “versatility”.
It would go like this:
Heart Seeker:
25% chance of jumping to the target
25% chance of execution effect
25% chance of Leap finisher
25% chance of regen
Point capping is the lamest crap. This is why I left tpvp. Lots more interesting things to do in wvw.
It is really amazing how PvP makes a PvP system better. I mean I love jerking off around a blue circle as much as the next guy… but sometimes actually fighting/killing someone is a nice change!
GW2 really does have the best April fools joke in a long time.
I mean who else would spend 6 months screwing up PvP and class balance to the point where the game it self becomes a joke.
That level of dedication April fools is truly commendable!
Excellent April fools joke!
NOW = no.
In upcoming patches will Warriors see some changes? = yes.
Man you warriors are totally screwed now. Johnathan last frequented the thief forum with some very rational and well thought out changes to stealth. He then implemented 10 changes he didn’t talk about that totally destroyed the class for PvE.
If he has his sights on you i’d suggest switching classes now,
He did the same thing for Engineers.
The Engineer, Ranger, and Necro suffer from some annoying bugs and under powered, dumb pets/turrets and if this character bound progression is much grinder than we think we will see the meta to further revolve around Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers.
Not to say everything is perfect…but did you just say the meta revolves around warriors? Did the recent poll they just took showed warriors to be considered the weakest profession in pvp? and more competitive spvp teams dont waste a slot on one?
What the Devs and the players in the latest state of the game were discussing was sPvP (s-small), not large scale PvP in World vs. World. In PvE and WvW they are extremely strong.
Hilariously go and look at the SPvP browser in prime time.
Usually there is less than 500 people playing SPvP and 300+ servers sit empty.
But the entire game is supposedly balance around this handful of players to the detriment of the other players.
The game has been out six months and we still have multiple Talents that literally do nothing.
And you think someone at Arena Net plays this class?
That’s the problem, all they do is play sPvP and not WvW or PvE. They need to see things from a PvE>WvW—>sPvP approach. Right now its sPvP———->PvE>WvW.
They most certainly do NOT need to see things from a PvE > WvW > PvP approach. Are you kidding? PvP is the most important balance point of the game, seeing as you COMPETE AGAINST OTHERS. It matters less in pve seeing as you fight computer controlled artificial intelligence that is not challenging on any level. What it should be is PvP > WvW > PvE.
No this doesn’t come from an elitist pvper, I have dungeon master and do plenty pve, only rank 26.
Officially they balance for SPvP.
In reality this is an excuse of their constant failures and idiocy. SPvP is probably the least balanced part of the game, in large part because of completely stupid mechanics.
“Bunkers are needed to survive burst and burst are needed to take down bunkers”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-How-to-fix-the-problems/first#post1691309
I gave my solution, here, tell me your thoughts.
A better idea would be to design a PvP system that revolves around “PvP” instead of standing on a point and jerking it.
In every MMO I’ve played, it’s always blown my mind that people defend even the most broken classes and their most overpowered aspects to the end.
This is indisputably broken. It’s one thing to be able to hop a few feet forward, but being able to rip through 1,200 range with no repercussion is absolutely game breaking, especially if it’s paired with two to four rolls that ignore snares.
Because they are the ones playing it.
The Dunning–Kruger effect causes players who aren’t good to think they are. When they find an overpowered class that lets them excel beyond their actual skill they think it is fine because they are severely overestimating their own skill.
In short “C” players think they are “A” players.
Now there are certainly balance issues, but the difficulty is always in separating out the wheat from the chaff.
Bunkers are popular because SPvP is badly designed.
It isn’t a game of “Players versus Players” it is a game of “stand in the circle”.
“As far as MMO’s go the balance in this game is good” that doesn’t really say much when this game is trying to become a top-notch PVP game. The PVP in other MMO’s have pretty low standards and aren’t even close to being a fair competitive game. I’d rather have this game have high standards and try to become a popular PVP game rather than some PVP tacked onto an MMO like the ones you find in all the other MMO’s. Who cares if it’s an MMO. The point here is the PVP part of the game, not the PVE or wvw.
Feel free to name a single competitive PvP game, outside of FPS shooters and I’ll show you a forum of balance whingers. People who whinge for a balanced state of nirvana never stop. They just keep on going, like a kitten cancer.
Every single game has this virus and I can understand why developers just outright ignore them unless its a bug or an unintended issue. You please one faction of the balance whingers and another one pops out and spreads like kittenroaches.
Must be mighty easy to sit there and kitten talk how important balance is when you’ve got two of the best classes in your Signature.
There aren’t enough people doing tournaments to launch one because SPvP is a broken clusterkitten of stupidity and bad ideas.
Their focus on buffing Warriors every patch is reaching levels of parody at this point.
I never got 24k damage on someone. But I did with my thief.
Like I said early on when 100nade became popular, I don’t care if they tone it down. I’m not a fan of one shotting build in mmo, even if I roamed quit a bit with 100nade (it was fun for me, but I’m sure it wasn’t for others).
But I wonder : Why remove it from engineer, and not from other classes? Shatter mesmers (might get nerfed so), DD thief, 100b Warrior (tho they aren’t that bad).
And if you are removing it to us, give us something else to make up for it. Not like 100nade was FOTM in tPvP.
Thieves and Warriors are intended to be viable PvP classes, Engineer is not.