Guild Wars 2

lol no way, it’s better just to auto-atack.

Notsoperky.4291:

Whatever happened to balancing things slowly, testing it, and moving it slowly up or down.

Anet doesn’t care about balance, they only stir the meta and then replace their mistakes with a new group of unbalanced skills. They approach class balance like a mad scientist experiments.

A ranger told me today that with the new patch he could stack over a minute of protection. It’s like nothing at all was tested.

They also can stack protection crazy. Proof none of this is ever tested.

To never be used again. Tempest better be worth it.

-Flamestrike: Increased the damage by 33%.
Still sucks, which says a lot about the biased elementalist balance

-Dragon’s Tooth: Changed to a ground-targeted skill.
People still have 3 seconds to dodge out (or stunbreak/cleanse) while our knockdown/knockback are 2 seconds. Why is killshot having a shorter cast time and does more damage on a heavy class? No logic there.

-Shatterstone: Increased the vulnerability from 4 stacks for 15 seconds to 5 stacks for 15 seconds. Increased damage by 10%.
Still too slow to damage with all the ticks, damage is so low that people don’t mind staying into it.

Too many ele skills rely on having your opponent completely cced and out of stunbreaks. A lot of the cast times could be reduced.

Didn’t see what they’ve done to meteor but I’ll bet it’s another nerf.

The lack of new auras makes me really uninterested in Tempest and skeptical about buying the expansion. Seems there is little new for the elementalist beside recycled stuff.

Anyway Warhorn still remains the biggest problem. Until they decide to make it range it will never really be good.

Elementalist Frost Bow revenge, Anet got Deep Freezed:
50% nerf to upload speed, only 3 users at the time may download the patch.
Minus 3 stacks of server stability per refresh, latency increased by 40%.

On mac the game is just no longer launching.

I think Tempest has plenty of defensive traits already.

How about pursuing the concept of field modifiers.

Field modifiers would adds or change an effect on blast (as fury with fire line, for other lines)

For example a Lightning field modifier: Gain 2 seconds of quickness on blast and 2 seconds of super speed on leap

I feel like Tempest is built on “unsteady grounds”…

It has a lot of skill contradictions (support without cc, melee without stability, leaps or block, close range reflect auras?), trait overlaps (auras/earth lines), thematic leaps (no storms, elite?), lacks synergy with other trait lines (damage modifiers?) and weapons (staff? scepter?), awkward mechanics (no dodge or swapping attunement?).

It is not doomed but it really needs to be refocused. I think it should be more simple and effective.

They should have buffed condition damage on staff, lava font could give 2 stacks of burning per pulses at the very least since it doesn’t hit the moment you place it down.

Glenstorm.4059:

Simple question:

What if the Attunement recharge after Overload was simply dropped? Would that make Tempest worth speccing into?

Not from an offensive perspective. The damage modifiers will always outclass other traits, in WvW and PvE at least the rally system is just too important. In PvP bunker builds have their place when it comes to holding points.

Raithwall.8201:

i think they should maybe have waited for HoT before swinging the nerf bat….

Agreed. Considering mesmers will be able to moa you twice for a total of 20 seconds and by the time it’s over you’ll be dead anyway I don’t see the point of nerfing the elementalist fire line.

Nike.2631:

Would you be satisfied with something along the lines of~

• “When your current attunement is recharged you gain +15% cooldown speed on all weapon skills.”

Which would make Tempest completely unlike core Elementalists in wanting to stay in a single attunement to pump out that single attunement’s effects faster.

It makes popping the Overload (with it’s stun break ) a real tactical decision and not something you mash as fast as it comes up. Camp your souped-up sped up weapon skills or throw the big button and move on to another attunement?

I would rather Karl uses the new Alacrity boon than a global recharge reduction.

Aeden.4837:

Xillllix.3485:

Like what people here made up about the ele because facerolling their metabattle build didn’t work? No thanks I let Anet do their job.

Oh come now, first you scream everything else is more OP and when i ask you what precisely, you cant answer. Ele d/d is too strong, that has been a accepted thruth by the the majority of the playerbase including some ele players themselves

Where did I write specifically that d/d ele didn’t have some builds that needed to be balanced? Anet just nerfed the wrong things: they nerfed staff ele which was already kittening hard to play as a consequence of listening to the people who don’t know what they are talking about here. Confusion and shatter mesmer as well as burn guardians are all completely broken and anet didnt do kitten. Warrior needed to be fine-tuned down not up (in pvp), it has too much mobility, immunity, invulnerabilities, ccs and damage for an heavy class.

Burning had to be nerfed globally. For ele they just needed to bring back the old celestial amulet that had less sustain, not cripple the fire line and nerf vigor on a class that gets 1-shot by literally everyone as soon as they drop the celestial amulet.

It’s not going to get better. People are raging because they get cced into a wall until they’re dead, immob for 5 seconds while getting 1-shot or melted by some broken build while the camera is stuck in a tree or the ceiling of the Khylo tower. The game used to be much more fun than this but balance has always been getting worse.

THings are not going to change with Mesmers being able to moa people twice in a row.

Aeden.4837:

Xillllix.3485:

As a main ele that also played all the other class, I would say that the amount of broken kitten on the other classes far surpasses the “OP” stuff on ele.

Please enlighten me in what part engi´s are far more OP than ele, no really i´m really interested in what you can make up

Like what people here made up about the ele because facerolling their metabattle build didn’t work? No thanks I let Anet do their job.

Therodin.2970:

They are professional sab trolls. Because they literally made money off of trolling us last time when they released the sab mini’s again without telling us that that did not mean sab was coming back.

100,000 views…

I would say that first of all Stronghold needs more maps.
It’s impossible to get the feel of a game mode playing only one map. It’s feels like we’re playing the map, not the game mode.

We need to see how stronghold would be on a cliffside, or in an open environment, or on a volcano, in a canyon, etc.

Is this the only Stronghold map that has been made in the last 2 years or do you have more on the way?

Also the PvE elements are too present. People wanted GvG and this is the complete opposite.

As a main ele that also played all the other class, I would say that the amount of broken kitten on the other classes far surpasses the “OP” stuff on ele.

ZDragon.3046:

You should calm the eff down we dont know that that warrior signet is not going to change. They said vigor was being adjusted across the board also…. You will still have vigor on cantrip use just not the mgiht >.>
Stop crying…. god….

Its not like warrior has teleport skills or something like eles do, or access to 20 skills at any time they want.

Learn to play ele dude and you’ll see it’s way harder than playing warrior. On my first freaking pvp game playing warrior I won a 1v2. It’s never going to happen to someone playing ele for the first time.

1- Warrior has the highest mobility, when they run away it’s impossible to catch them. You can leap out of immobs and are almost immune to ccs. On top of that they have the highest hp pool, best armor, hit like a brick, and dual endure pain.

2- Ele doesn’t have access to 20 skills “any time they want”. Half the time when you attune to an element only 2-3 skills will be available because if it was used in your previous rotation. Our cooldowns are considerably longer than every other class and if we’re chilled we get double the penalty of the other classes because our attunement swap is also affected. Sometimes you’re chilled and there is just nothing you can do, everything is on cooldown for 2-3 seconds.

3- The vigor on cantrips comes at the cost of a dps modifier while the other one was more freely accessible.

Indeed, condi/shatter mesmers and engis are way more broken than d/d ele ever was.

irrumatio.4893:

Irenio and Roy really threw you a bone with that Frost Bow nerf, Karl. With such a huge part of meta Ele damage nerfed into uselessness, people may now have a reason to run Tempest over Water or Air (I’m looking at you, Tempest Defense) for Staff PvE. Warhorn is still trash, though.

Clever, very clever. When your specialization turns out to be garbage, nerf the alternatives until it’s on par with what’s left.

I don’t think so, Tempest just doesn’t have enough damage burst potential at the moment to be considered in a competitive context. The might on cantrips nerf just made the little that was left of Heat Sync even worse and destroyed most of its synergy with the fire line and cantrips.

assassin.7895:

Nutshel.7264:

Hexalot.8194:

Have any of you guys even READ the balance preview notes?

They just swung the nerf bat at PU Mesmers, reducing stealth duration by 50%.

50% stealth duration bonus nerf is not, by any means stopping mesmers from 100-0 ing somebody from sealth. Just makes them easier to deal with should you survive.

100-0 doesn’t work and burst is predictable. Dodge, use block, blind etc. I think you are just lacking skill and get carried by op ele specs.

It’s not predictable if done right.

Anet is always a step behind with balance, if they don’t take a step foward and 2 backward instead:

Might on cantrips:
Histrory:
- Has never caused problems before for almost 3 years, nobody was ever complaining about that since even heavy armor classes have plenty of access to might.

- It was merged with the cleansing fire trait because they said that: “No more traits would suck in the new trait system”. Now we have a trait system with less build variety and that trait is un-merged, keeping only its worse half. Talk about incoherence.

In other words: The entire offensive potential of cantrips is lost. Gameplay is dramatically affected by something that should have been done in an other manner.

Intended result of nerf:
Force d/d ele into a pure supportive bunker role.

Result of nerf:
What is more severely impacted: Staff builds, zerker builds, cripple fire line getting definitively worse than the Air and Water lines, less build variety.

This is just one of the nerfs where the consequences will be really negative on the elementalist experience. For all these nerf something just doesn’t work:
- Blind on burning: nobody will ever use it again, wasn’t even really good in the first place.

- Ice bow: wasn’t a balanced nerf, they just completely took it out of the game and made it useless, like engineer turrets.

And the Vigor nerf is even worse. Did Anet even tried to play ele with something else than Metabattle bunker builds?

You could give us weapon swap on a 20 seconds cooldown and call it a day.

At least we would be able to have some new variety and not lose all our damage going tempest. Anyway, I thought that was the reason why blasting staff was made baseline in the first place.

Jaetara.4075:

The risk to use ice bow on pvp is to huge for nerfing it. Even in pve we just use it for 2 skills and then through it away. So now it will be just like the rest of the conjures, USELESS!
But as it seams ANET doesn’t care for that group of skills anyways, they don’t even change “conjurer” trait to be actually useful… to give some protection or smt when u use a conjured and u risk your life!

Yeah they should trash the conjure trait line as well and put something useful there since nobody will be using conjures now except to move around WvW with the fgs skill 3.

It’s nothing new really, every time we get something remotely good the other classes that always play the same builds and never played ele go complaining on the forum and make sure Anet destroys us in the next balance patch.

We now have 2 pretty much useless traits in the Fire line and nerfed dodge on a class that can’t even use a berserker amulet without being 1-shot. And yes, guardian burning was way way worse, the have better defenses, quickness, heavy armor, can use marauder without being squishy. There is just no logic I’m afraid behind that balancing beside Anet trying to please their fan base in the pvp forum section.

The worse consequence of this terrible balancing is that it will force elementalists even more into bunker and celestial.

Jarvis.9540:

It’s very underwhelming. I just can’t see any scenario where I would use it over other already existing builds. How do they fix it? I don’t think they do. The whole idea was pretty ill-conceived. I say burn the house down and collect the insurance money.

Pretty much the same with Tempest if not worse.
The elite profession has nothing to do with the theme, initial elite was useless and warhorn skills don’t even do anything new (at least you are getting range).

There are many issues with warhorn skills animation speed and responsiveness, and the new class mechanic is such a long channeling that it can’t even be used without risking getting wrecked, and all that risk for pretty low damage.

Jekkt.6045:

Jski.6180:

Coldtart.4785:

Jski.6180:

That is a problem with the other elite spec if they are op then they need to be fixed you should not wish for your class to be op.

Other elite specs being worthy of play without being strictly better than their base class is a problem?

A lot of them ARE better then the base class.

only necro and ranger are an upgrade. the reason for that is because necros and rangers haven’t really been in the best spot…

the other elite specs are more or less on equal footing except for berserker which needs a bit of tuning still and daredevil some QoL.

the worst 2 are tempest and dragonhunter.

You’re forgetting the Chronomancer… that can shatter you twice your entire hp or moa you for 20 seconds.

Jski.6180:

Jekkt.6045:

Jski.6180:

Jekkt.6045:

Jski.6180:

Jekkt.6045:

Coldtart.4785:

Here’s a better idea: people post theorycrafted builds for tempest and then ele mains improve them by replacing tempest with a base d/d ele build instead.

fixed that for you

Well d/d ele is dead in wvw and should be dead in spvp soon after the update tempest fills that melee mages roll now. You can d/d tempest.

d/d ele will be just as strong, just a bit more balanced. for wvw roaming d/d ele is very viable and when it comes to zerging it doesn’t matter what you run anyway.

and no, i’d rather pick earth over tempest anytime. overloads are terrible for d/d and the traits are bad too. cantrips > shouts.

just a little heads up to show how excited the community is about tempest:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3mfq8w/what_elite_spec_are_you_most_excited_for_strawpoll/

From a real stand point d/d ele is very dead in wvw not so much base off of changes to ele but the changes to other classes ranged dps is king atm in wvw you need to be all tank to make it in melee (something tempest can do and still have a use but ele cant.) As for spvp ele is losing dmg for d/d so they must give up the dmg and take the lost or give up some of there abitly to tank. Tempest still very able to heal a good bit so it can give up some self tank for dmg.

You do understand you can still run cantrips as an tempest right? You seem to not get that every thing ele has tempest gets.

why would you run tempest traits then.. the overloads are not worth it and most of the time you will not use them, and if you use them they mess up your rotation.

d/d ele was never a damage build in pvp to begin with. the only reason it was dealing so much damage was due to imbalanced burning which has been fixed now. d/d ele is a bruiser, peeling enemies off allies and giving them a bit of heal, boons and cleanse but because it’s considered the most braindead build right now people don’t even need to know the role of the build. today i had a d/d ele on my team in ranked queue that had no clue how to do his job, all he did was running around attacking people not caring for his own teammates.

They are to some ppl. You still do not get it tempest is NOT made to replaces ele get that out of your head. Tempest is simply something different then ele. If you do not like it DONT play it and keep playing ele.

I have no ideal why this is so hard for ppl to understand.

I think we understand better than you, we can see that 1- expansion is expensive therefore we have the right to expect quality, 2- Tempest is just bad at even what it tries to do and looks rushed, and 3- after the novelty of it is gone we will back to playing the same builds for 2 more years while every other class enjoys new OP professions.

The funniest thing is that to sell us Tornado being a cantrip they told us tornado was getting the might on cantrips.

Now when you enter tornado you gain mostly vigor… for a skill that doesn’t permit you to dodge. Very good design right there.

Jekkt.6045:

oh and mesmer can instaburst more or less everything.

Yet manages to not get balanced at all. I’ll never understand Anet’s reasoning to allow classes to insta-kill other classes from stealth.

Jski.6180:

BlackBeard.2873:

Why would anyone sign up to play a worse version of base Elementalist (do everything you could before, just worse!)?

Code for “it dose not do dmg so i will not play it.”

The thing with builds that do no damage is that its the rally system that wins group fights not healing. And you get downs with damage.

Chapan.9170:

Why not just rename it Auramancer?

It would probably sell less than tempest. Think of all the people who will buy the expansion without ever trying the betas. They think they’ll be getting some amazing aoe storms (as we all expected).

WhimsicalPacifist.2943:

It’s only one build that’s consistently on top of the others. Glyph, signet as subpar builds get hit pretty hard with the collateral damage.

Nobody even use signets or glymph in pvp anymore because of the lost of condi-duration and auras on the fire now, now Anet is hitting cantrips might also on the fire line, as if they can’t learn from their mistakes. They should have buffed signets and glymphs, not nerfed cantrips.

And nerfing vigor just forces us more into bunker, it’s been the main problem for 3 years now.

“Remember remember, the “insert date” of “month” the Ride the Lightning treason and plot. I know of no reason why the Ride-The-Lightning treason (and mist form, lightning flash, tornado, fgs, ice bow, etc.) should ever be forgot…"

The elementalist has an history of dramatic nerfs, extremely long cooldowns, and useless elites, yet despite all these handicaps we found ways to prevail.

Glenstorm.4059:

WhimsicalPacifist.2943:

Hmm, what happened to the Vigorous Scepter trait?

I seem to recall elementalist not having to rely on Water/Cantrips quite so much. This “normalization” reinforces the reliance upon Water Cantrips.

They scrapped all weapon-specific traits with the specialization update. Yet there’s a warhorn trait in the Tempest line, go figure…

It’s because of the bad idea that we should be forced to take the new line to equip the new weapon. It reduces build diversity even more but we’ve had all the indication that diversity isn’t their priority when they merged trait, instead they said they wanted to make each trait more impactful. It’s just seeing them break merged traits (like the might on cantrip/cleansing fire) is really confusing: now we have less diversity AND bad traits.

We’ll all be able to drop that cursed class soon and play Revenant. Tempest isn’t going as strong or usable as all the other elite professions anyway.

“There will always be A META” … Except there will never be another Ice Bow. Skill deleted.

iriyabran.6218:

Why does Anet always go so drastic with nerfs. It’s FGS nerf all over again. Just fixing the trail stacking could’ve done it but they had to do 70% dmg nerf too. Now Ice Bow – just nerf the dmg what’s with the targed nerf?
…
Also nerfing vigor on one of the two classes with lowest base defense
??

I think it’s because they don’t really play their own game. If they did they would have nerfed mesmer burst damage and confusion, guardian burn damage, warrior burst damage, ranger pewpew, engi ccs or block, necro lifeblast, etc.

Because they aren’t really trying to balance their game they just create a new meta for us to play with for 6 months. The Ice Bow nerf was just like the Turrets engi nerf, they didn’t balance turrets, they just made them useless.

As for the vigor nerf its just going to make it easier for shatter mesmer to 1-shot staff eles.

The Might on cantrip nerf is the worse, it was the merging of 2 bad traits that justified the new trait system. They were so proud to show us this new trait… Now we are stuck with just 3 trait lines and traits are being made bad again. Terrible decision, they could just have removed 1 stack.

Starfall.6425:

Xillllix.3485:

It’s not strong, anyone with the least of skill can just dodge out. This is strickly a PvE nerf done without regards to PvP or WvW. Killshot, Backstab and Shatter are strong because they almost insta-kill people. Ice bow was good to kill blobs of PvE creatures, that’s about it.

If the skill can just be dodged does it matter if it deals 50% or 100%? oô
Did you really use Icebow in pvp?

Not me no, I didn’t find it reliable enough for pvp. In WvW it could be used because sometimes there is enough ccs to keep people in aoe damage. It’s not going to be used now, you might as well just put a lava font down.

Relshdan.6854:

its still a strong skill….just not obscenely broken now.

It’s not strong, anyone with the least of skill can just dodge out. This is strickly a PvE nerf done without regards to PvP or WvW. Killshot, Backstab and Shatter are strong because they almost insta-kill people. Ice bow was good to kill blobs of PvE creatures, that’s about it.

Now that you’ve removed Might on Cantrips and seriously crippled the fire line can you add a might on shouts trait instead to make Tempest at least have some proper damage potential?

50% is just such a hard hitting number that nobody will even bother to reequip it. I’m quite sure they didn’t even bother to test it. Anyway it’s obviously a PvE nerf that was done without regards to PvP. Like oh, let’s go I’ll fight this shatter mesmer with my Ice Bow… lol It’s more a “No more Ice Bow in PvE” decision.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Most changes are sensible, but two:

“Normalizing” our vigor trait should also make it a minor trait.

Burning fire is now basically useless, 3 condi clear every 40 seconds alone is just bad.

Useless trait was merged with good trait, good part removed, back to useless trait. New trait system fail.

jakethesnake.5132:

Zenith.7301:

I’m surprised they didn’t do that 3 target cap for meteor shower as well.

yes lets just completely gut eles and remove all their damage from WvW. What a great idea…..

Yeah it already makes a huge red circle everyone just dodge out now because of the previous nerf. Most of the time you can barely get a few meteors to hit unless the people are already down.

SkiTz.4590:

Xillllix.3485:

No they didn’t, cleansing had to be nerfed on ele not burning. Burning had to be a global nerf.

And Frost bow should just have been made an elite skill since all our elites are kitten.

Thank the lord you aren’t in charge of balance than

If you touch the Ele’s sustain (water, cleansing, cantrip and regen) you might as well delete the class….. they would die within 2 secs from a thief/mesmer out of stealth….

You are clueless.

Ele’s have had this sustain for years.

Why did all the QQ start about cele ele being OP again recently? BECAUSE OF BURN CHANGE and OP FIRE LINE SYNERGY.

Classes can have great sustain at the cost of damage or vice versa. Cele Ele DD Had great sustain AND great DPS.

The DPS needed to go. If you kill the sustain, you kill ele.
Hitting the fire line is fine and opens up air/earth…. which gives a bit of diversity in our choices…. previously it was 100% fire because of its OPness…..

This was the correct call.

Ele will just go back at being the hardest class to play and least rewarding. I’ve never had problems with the burning of eles compared to that of guards which is way stronger.

These are more than what was needed considering that they did NOT EVEN nerf mesmer shatter, ranger pewpew, rampage and burning on guard. The issue was cleansing anyway, not burning. Burning needed to be nerfed globally but instead they crippled the elementalist fire line with some now useless trait by removing its might on cantrips.

It’s a terrible balance patch.

No they didn’t, cleansing had to be nerfed on ele not burning. Burning had to be a global nerf.

And Frost bow should just have been made an elite skill since all our elites are kitten.