Guild Wars 2

Personally I don’t expect to touch Tempest again until they address our concerns with the mechanics. Next beta I’ll play Daredevil and see if I can imagine myself main thief.

I saw a group of people using a glitch to get into SMC inner. I have a screenshot of where the glitch happen, should I send it to someone at support? I’ve been careful to hide the names and tags.

rotten.9753:

It’s hard to defend tempest after watching daredevil in action. In actually points to the fact that Karl is more than capable of designing fun elite spec.

Yeah it just feel that tempest was completely rushed. I’m really worried about it because it’s my main class and so far I did not like it. I think I may start to main thief, revenant or mesmer when HoT is released.

Could there be something in chat making people crash?
We were GvGing 2 days ago and 3 of our people dced at the same time.

That seems like enough time to fix tempest…

Kicast.1459:

Lol…ele crying about their death while we get ele everywhere..so funny how people are narrow minded.

That’s funny because what I see everywhere are pewpew rangers and mesmers.
I guess we see what we wanna see.

Dragon Hunter: Not bad – average
Guardians don’t really like the trap idea, but I see good condi build possibilities for pvp. The bow gives them something completely new and I like it.

Berserker: Amazingly strong and overpowered
Not sure where the balance comes in when it comes to giving the lowest cooldowns and highest damage/speed/cc to the class with the most hp, mobility and armor. But it’s for exactly these reasons that the berserker looks amazing.

Herald: Really interesting
It has the utilities Tempest should have had as elite

Tempest: Terrible – a nightmare for elementalists
The overload mechanic do not work in synergy with how the class is played or with any other weapons than dagger, elite is worthless, trait lines are only defensive and offer no variety, cooldowns are super long on warhorn

Dare Devil: amazingly cool – game redefining
This new elite profession will dominate across all game modes because of its new elite skill. Seems almost unfair that they get to be the only ones to insta-finish people, specially considering the bad elite skills some classes have. I guess reaper can do it too…

Chronomancer: great
Offers new boons and conditions, new elite is really interesting. Just “works” well all around with every weapon set.

Reaper: great
Offers the class something they never had, really strong damage and conditions. New reaper shrouds is just overpowered. Not sure about the shouts.

I always knew metabattle were a step behind the real meta.
You absolutely can’t have the best team comp without a mesmer, a guard, and a warrior at the moment.
Mesmer just dominates everything in terms of utilities, condition damage and burst damage. Burning on guardian and boon support is better than on d/d ele, it has less dancing to do and more efectiveness + quickness. Warrior has the best elites, outstanding cc/s and mobility.

Best team comp is:
1 mesmer
1 guardian
1 warrior
1 ele
1 engi

Laodike.8640:

However warhorn was fine. Traits were ridiculous.

The traits are all passive traits besides perhaps the stun break. This is the first of the problems I find with them. They are also all defensive, therefore variety is eliminated; there is just no offensive tempest build possible, second problem. Third problem: minor traits should be combined. Why have a trait that gives swiftness on overload and another that gives protection? Makes no sense, both are passive boons applied under the same circumstances. The only good trait is the one that negates condition, because it seems at this point the dev recognized that someone overloading was toasted.

At the risk of repeating myself and what others have said again and again:

The passivity problems goes into the overload mechanic. Having to camp an attunement is a complete deal-breaker. Our skill cooldowns are long because we are supposed to change attunements quickly. I calculated that I almost never stay in an attunement more than 2.5 seconds, the time it takes to cast 2-3 skills. This is optimal, since after 4 attunements I arrive at 10 seconds and can restart the rotation. But even if you could start overloading immediately after attuning, I’m still sure it would not be worth the risk : losing your cc, dodges, rotation boons, most damage and being punished if interrupted really is an disproportionate trade-off.

Warhorn: Give us weapon swap and then perhaps people will use it. Otherwise why put yourself at melee range on a squishy class to give boons to other players with better elite professions?

Elite: Is passive (doesn’t affect the gameplay in noticeable ways).

Wolfric.9380:

So and what will hapen is fire overload bursts for 15k?

It’s still going to be 4 times longer to channel than a Mesmer shattering for 14k and 3 times longer than a 12k killshot.

For me it has to do with the “fun factor” it will bring to the class. The new thief profession relies on dodging and active gameplay therefore it will be amazing to play no matter what the numbers are.

Tempest requires you to camp in attunements, prevent you from using skills and even dodging when using overloads, basically is unrewarding to the people who master their attunement rotations.

This is what needs to be fixed first and foremost, not numbers, but the way Tempest is in anti-synergy with attunement swapping. It should be the complete opposite, Tempest should make your attunements recharge faster and reward fast playing. Overloading should permit you to do more, not less.

Overloads would also work if they gave you a new set of skills to use when overloading.

But then Anet would have to design 20 new skills…

Kidel.2057:

Azel.4786:

How so? The key problem is that Tempest is being designed as a “melee brawler / group support” specialization, but that is exactly what D/D cele elementalist is all about.

I agree. Nerf core Ele, so tempest becomes useful.

Boon duration was nerfed, FGS was nerfed, our elites are useless, might blasting was nerfed… and you want more nerfs. Everything was nerfed so much that only a bunker build with some burning damage is functional. There is absolutely no way to nerf d/d ele without breaking all the squishier build possibilities. Almost any build that is currently not full bunker gets 1-shot by mesmers.

Just learn the class and you’ll learn to counter it.

It’s broken in WvW too and now all you see is blobs with range classes pewpewing each others. I made a thread about this almost a year ago titled “the stability changes were a mistake” or something similar.

PvP needs more than 1 map for sure… I can’t believe they only have 1 stronghold map.

I’m going to play other classes and roflol when someone uses Rebound.

OK you guys wanna trade your elite with Rebound?

Ganathar.4956:

BlackBeard.2873:

EsarioTwo.9251:

Xillllix.3485:

It convinced me that its the worse of the elite professions.

This.

Just gonna leave this here, while we are at it:

http://imgur.com/a/Ee6t8#10

I mean, can’t they look at the numbers and see that nobody ever casts churning earth and few people ever use ether renewal (both long channels, although ER has seen use at times b/c of the high healing potential) because of their cast times? Overloads are like these skills, but with ADDITIONAL penalties for using and little payoff for completing.

Overloads, as a concept, just don’t work. If they keep buffing them to be worth the cost of using, they will have to make them:
Fire: Outputs pulsing 3 stacks of burns and 10stacks of might for 25s
Air: 1-shots an enemy at the end
Water: full-heal
Earth: Moving sandstorm (glyph of storms in earth)

Obviously, those are all OPAF, but that is because the cost to use an overload is sky-high. Bring the cost down significantly so they don’t NEED to be OP to be balanced.

The first thing that I noticed in that album is that pulmonary impact doesn’t work with the weakening strikes trait

But seriously, this looks quite a bit better than I expected for thief, even though they gutted acrobatics for it, which may need re-purposing now or some sort of buff.

As for overloads, I believe that Karl is having a very difficult time balancing them. I mean, they should be incredibly OP because of their astronomical cost, but that is not very good design. However, if they become easier to cast and have less cost, they might just become part of the standard elementalist rotation which is already powerful enough. The design intent was very likely to disrupt the rotation of the elementalist and offer a new way to play. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to have worked out at all.

What if overloads were quick spells that enabled you to tap into an attunement from a different attunement? For example, I could have a build that camps fire and I could use a water overload while in fire attunement for some healing and cleansing. Using the overload would enable me to remain in fire but would put my water attunement on cooldown.
There are of course problems with this such as what hotkeys are these overloads bound to by default. In addition, most ele auto-attacks are very weak, though that could perhaps be solved with proper traits. I am also pretty sure that there are other issues that I haven’t thought about as well, but I just came up with it and haven’t spent any time thinking about the specifics.

5 seconds overload cannot work in a fast pace game like this when you get interrupted on half your normal skills and need mobility on a squishy class to stay alive. Looking at the new stuff for thief and warrior: tempest bites the dust, it doesn’t even begin to compare. Who needs boon share support when you can beat people into a pulp?

Thieves got weapon swap on top of that: They can backstab you for 9k, switch to staff, immob you, daze and finish you down instantly. I’m not jealous , I’ll just play thief instead of tempest.

And what you said about overloads is completely true, logically they should tap into a different attunement. Huge conceptual flaws in the current design.

kitten sorry guys, I know you all wanted warhorn…

Looks really good to say the truth. This pretty much confirms that one of the new legendary will be a staff.

A single offensive trait would be nice… I mean, all the traits are defensive and support.

The worse is that we have to pay to transfer and find a place where WvW is enjoyable and balanced.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Currently, it isn’t looking good for the PVE tempest.

PvE enemies generally knock you down or interrupt you every 2-3 seconds. That makes Overloads useless even in the context of fighting a single npc, you are just going to get interrupted while channeling.

In my opinion Tempest has these issues:
1- Lack of mobility: besides super speed warhorn and shouts have no leap, no evade, no teleport and you cannot dodge while overloading.
2- Lack of support: Boon sharing and auras isn’t enough to turn a class into a support class
3- Lack of cc on warhorn
4- Lack of stability for a “Melee” elite profession
5- Lack of any type of synergy with other weapons than dagger (no range)
6a- Trait line that is not as good as the ones it will replace: will result in losing damage modifiers and important defensive traits
6b- Tempest has ZERO offensive traits
7- Shouts overlapping aura share trait
8- Terrible damage for melee range
9- Useless Rebound elite
10- Slower skill animation than current offhand (animations are behind the character if you move forward)
11- Excessive recharge on shouts and warhorn skills
12- Lack of new boons or new conditions
13- not truly viable for condition builds
14- Buggy skills (lightning orb only works vertically)

And this is beside the overloads attunement camping problems… So there is A LOT of work to do to make this viable.

Unless most of these are fixed I’m not sure I even want to try it ever again.

Nick.7621:

After numerous posts on PvP forums of people QQing that dd eles are OP I was hoping that the 8/25/2015 build we would see a nerf in someway…

Elementalist
Arcane Brilliance: Fixed a bug that caused this skill’s blast finisher to occur at your target’s location instead of your own.
Soothing Power: Updated the tooltip for this trait to reflect the actual effectiveness increase of 100%.

Really ANet? Don’t pay much attention to the PvP community huh? Loosing all hope…

Facepalm is really all the people that don’t realize practically every classes have broken builds right now. Not just the bunker elementalist build is powerful.

Removing the stat points from the trait lines is what completely unbalanced the game. It’s like one developer didn’t understand the intent and reasoning of the other developer.

Diamond skin is fine. Most people actually choose not to use it because of it’s very situational effectiveness. Anyway by choosing the earth line you are sacrificing tons of damage.

Elizabeth Reed.9173:

Funny how all the complaining about YB being the dominant server in T2 now is coming from the exact FA folks who once dominated T2 for the past 6-8 months… Bite down hard FA ppl. What goes around comes around.

Nobody is complaining about which server is winning, people are complaining because of the T1 guilds that stacked on YB and turned T2 into a EotM karma train. There is just no more good fights in T2.

I saw more real balanced fights in 1 night in T3 than during my entire last months of T2.

Wolfric.9380:

Bear in mind that overload must not strenghten ele!
Expecting overload buffing ele must be disepointing…

Take overload as it is. A flashy option to have fun ocasionaly. Somtimes balance doesn´t taste well.

Every other professions got a new mechanic that can make them stronger, specially Berserker, Chronomancer, Reaper all have devastating potential.

Ele is not more op at the moment than shatter/condi mesmer, condi engi or burn guardian, it’s a complete misunderstanding of the class strength and weakness that lead to people saying that ele was op. I don’t see why it’s elite profession would have to be support, specially because that is where it already shines.

If overloads are to function on the current concept then they should be like elemental pulsing shields that do not prevent you from doing other things.

And yes Rebound is really really bad.

15 of us just left t2 (YB) in search of a better future in t3 on cd.

T2 is just zombie-land now: YB blob that is karma training 24/7.

If I was Anet I would be really worried about the state of the game in T2 because these are 3 high-population/full servers where it’s almost absolutely impossible to have any kind of fun in WvW. Anet dev need to play there for a week and see for themselves what is hapenning, because there are less fight in T2 right now than in EotM at prime time.

Doesn’t look good for their game, but at the same time, it’s the result of their lack of updates to WvW and the matchup system.

If you level every skills to do the same damage this game is going to be boring as hell. If they were to nerf Ice bow then you would just have another useless skill nobody uses.

So Ice bow is fine, it does what it is supposed to do in pve, you use it once and then drop it. It has a smaller radius and the skills have longer recharge and shorter range than ranger bow. It is too unreliable for competitive play, and it makes up for the fact the elementalist class has no good elite skills.

At this point I wouldn’t mind if they made it an elite skill.

Mattmatt.4962:

Jski.6180:

Pulsing blast finisher is a good ideal.

So that the ideal add a field to each overload (i think standardizing time of channeling will make this work better so say 4-3 sec for all or 4-3 pulses for there effects) but earth that become a pulsing blast finisher.

I think that would go a long way to fixing tempest as an elite spec and fill a support roll.

Very good idea too.
Not enough to fix tempest ofc (still need trait rework and maybe slight buff to WH)

Glad that pro-tempest and con-tempest manage to find good ideas together

I don’t think there are people for or against tempest. I think we just want it to be something that is worth using in all game modes. The one point of total agreement is Rebound: Everyone agrees that it is the worse elite ever, doesnt work well, and it doesn’t fit the tempest theme.

GW2 is getting buggier and buggier.

Now it is restarting my computer when it crashes or when I quit it (it also crash when you just exit normally anyway).

Seriously, is it possible that guild wars 2 may break my computer because of all the forced restarts? How much can Anet guarantee that this is safe?

All my other games works fine.

Azure.8670:

Don’t mind xil, he’s extremely upset about the tempest. Mind yoy, I agree with just about everything he says, but I’m remaining positive so I don’t cry

However im truly thinking about making war my main

;) Nah its ok, I just want Anet to get Tempest right. And I’m not upset at all, I’m just critical. I have a 80 of every class anyway.

Jski.6180:

Tempest is not dmg its like comparing an staff gurd not doing as high of dmg to an GS war (not sure what war highest dmg wepon is atm). Tempest is a support class THAT should be the aim of what ppl are asking for not more dmg.

There is no such thing as melee range support for the elementalist besides elemental attunement. It’s not going to work, I’ve tested it in wvw. Auras aren’t really good support (and you can share them fine without tempest) and the protection isn’t lacking for melee. It’s much better support to drop a waterfield, a chill field, a static field and a meteor. What are you gonna do instead with Warhorn? Overload at melee range and cross your fingers not to get interrupted?

Why would Tempest be a support class when all the other elite professions have different possible play styles? The support it gives is abysmal anyway. All you have is a waterfield you cant control and some boon duration share/buff.
Guardians can do 10 times more support without losing their damage, and so can a staff ele not running tempest.

Ragnarox.9601:

Xillllix.3485:

Tempest is really in a bad state right now but it’s probably not too late for them to fix it.

There has to be a director at Anet making a judgment call on the quality of these elite profession. Right now they range from amazing (Chronomancer-Berserker) to very good (Reaper) to good (Dragon Hunter) to terrible (Tempest).

You can also change class, which is what I am preparing to do.

Wait you are saying DH is good? Traps are good? be realistic man. Warrior got new type of skills….Ele’s are most powerful class right now and they deserve to get tempest. But traps are just horrible (be happy you didn’t get guardians spirit weapons…)

Who cares what state the ele is in at the moment. People are paying 50 bucks for an expansion and they don’t expect their elite profession to be as terrible as Tempest for that price Balance issues are just that, balance issues, they have nothing to do with content. Anyway, people thinking the ele is the best at everything clearly haven’t seen mesmers on the competitive field recently. They are wrecking everyone with both condi and power builds.

And yeah, DH is good, or average if you prefer. It’s certainly no disaster like Tempest.

Quarktastic.1027:

Tempest is 100% better than Dragonhunter: Proof

Tempest is the same with lightning orb in stairs or any terrain with slope. These are bugs.

Jski.6180:

Just throwing more dmg at tempest realty seems like a very bad way of “fixing” things. The blast is a good start but when war elite spec gets an effectually nado field that keeps with them (mind you its a fire field not an lighting field) seems like some one is realty missing they point of ele / tempest as a class.

Could there by any thing like a field that keeps on the tempest as they are overloading? It dose not seem like that big of a request. Maybe the ideal of earth not having a field type yet is getting in the way. But i think it would go a long way to help tempest be a true support class to have it crate fields of an element type during there overload preferably the same element type as the overload it self.

Even if they doubled the damage, a warrior in berserker mode or rampage will still beat a Tempest elementalist facerolling on his keyboard. The fact that they gave the heaviest class more mobility and absolutely no mobility for the squishiest class just shows how badly balanced these elite profession are. We all agree here: the overloads should not stop you from doing other things (using skills, swapping attunements, dodging), the chanelling should be shorter if any at all, and you shouldn’t have to camp an attunement to get them.

Tempest needed both mobility, range and AoE damage/cc. It got none of both these things and even worse, it puts you in a very difficult situation, against shatter mesmers who can burst you from stealth for 15k dps, and rampage warrior who can hit you for 9k with Maurauder gear while being tankier. Basically it’s not usable in any sort of competitive context at all, it was either in pre-beta state or is really badly conceived.

Edit: And the new warrior elite is on a 20 second cooldown… facepalm

Tempest is really in a bad state right now but it’s probably not too late for them to fix it.

There has to be a director at Anet making a judgment call on the quality of these elite profession. Right now they range from amazing (Chronomancer-Berserker) to very good (Reaper) to good (Dragon Hunter) to terrible (Tempest).

You can also change class, which is what I am preparing to do.

Why is the guesting system still functional over a year after we have megaservers?

For a minute I thought you guys had a WvW guesting system like in ESO. But sadly nope, it didn’t do anything.

Also why are completely empty servers labelled as “medium” population? You don’t want to let new users that these servers are empty?

At the other end of the spectrum you have Tempest:
Doesn’t give you stab and puts a squishy class in melee range with abilities that barely do damage or mitigate any while asking you to camp an attunement for 8-10 seconds with an elite that does nothing at all…

It’s so unfair and unbalanced: like the two elite professions aren’t made for the same game.

Jski.6180:

The problem is that there is no earth field i would love to see this one day though.

Well this would have been something to add that would have been considered “new”.
Earth field: gives quickness or stability to allies when blasted, slow to enemies on whirl, leap gives magnetic aura.

Wished that guy did tempest… ;(

Malchior.5732:

Alphard.6529:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Both D/D and D/F are already our skirmish specs and they do their jobs WAY better than the current tempest ever could.

They do their job better because they have a different job. D/D and D/F are small scale skirmishing / 1v1 sets, warhorn is a melee support weapon, more similar to staff than to focus or offhand dagger.

I don’t think I’d ever take Warhorn over Staff for large groups.

It doesn’t even work for melee support. You’ll just get pulverized when zerg clashes if you don’t mist form out.

It convinced me that its the worse of the elite professions. It’s not made to work with staff and fast attunement swapping, 2 of the most important elements of the elementalist. And the elite “Rebound” is complete kitten, besides all the other issues.

I wished I had something positive to say about the overloads themselves but sadly I don’t. Unless they make it so that you do not have to camp an attunement and that they do not interrupt your skill flow I really do not see any advantages in using them.

It could have been much simpler, but more effective; for example overloading could just do a burst and recharge all your attunements.

Or it could have given you a new boon/condi on attunement with proper traits:
Quickness and AoE torment when attuning to air
Alacrity and AoE Float when attuning to water
Resistance and AoE slow when attuning to earth
Retal and AoE burning when attuning to fire

Alphard.6529:

Malchior.5732:

Because it’s not used as a 180 range weapon in spvp? It’s used near enemies, but not at melee range necessarily. Then there’s the fact that you need to actually cast Fire Overload…

Well the overload effects extend to 360 range, no? If you’re fighting on a point, this will cover a lot of it.

lol until a mesmer arrives and presses 1 button.

Valentinus.3412:

Personally, I think the main mistake that has been made is making tempest a melee build – We already have D/D, D/F for that.

We also already have an incredibly strong long range weapon in staff.

I feel that a trick has been missed in making Tempest a S/W design. If they tweaked a few traits, altered overloads to not be PBAoE and gave scepter a rework I think they would have been on to a winner. And more importantly a winner that could have been used in all 3 game modes.

All they needed to do is increase the range of scepter to 1200 when equipping a warhorn with a trait, increase the range, damage and speed of warhorn skills to 1200 as well. Then you would have something interesting, that could be used in melee range and long range.

Alphard.6529:

The Great Al.2546:

What can tempest do that D/D can’t?

Let’s say we take the following trait lines: Water/Arcana/Tempest. Water and Arcana already have all the party support that d/d provides via the trait lines. Offhand dagger provides nothing that warhorn doesn’t provide in terms of party support (fire field, blast finisher, 2 CCs), but warhorn has a lot more (2 boon sharing skills, blind field, party-wide swiftness, water field). Depending on what they do with the overloads, it will have even more.

I don’t see warhorn being used in anything else than pvp.
Personally I want to see tempest working with staff as well as warhorn.

Look at the new Berserker F-skills, Reaper shroud, or Chronomancer. All these new professions work well with all their weapon choice. Why would a staff elementalist choose to camp in an attunement and use a close-range overload? Makes absolutely no sense.

See the guy who designed the Warrior berserker mode understood: When using berserker mode you have 10% speed boost on your skills.

Tempest is just the opposite: When you activate the tempest overloads you get penalized with longer attunement cooldowns instead of shorter ones. On top of all the new skills barely doing any damage it doesn’t even buff our core mechanic.

This is why the core of the tempest design is being criticized so much. It’s not helping the class at what it does good when you master it (fast attunement swapping through many skills).

Alphard.6529:

The Great Al.2546:

Any chance that we get a look at additional changes today?

I’d guess no, because they’re looking at more changes than what the Dragonhunter got today, and we already know how posting just a few tweaks on this forum turns out.

It turned out well actually. They got to hear what everyone was thinking which is exactly what was needed. If they want Tempest to be a success it’s up to them now, they should know what to do with all the suggestions pretty much going in the same direction.

They do need to tell us they are redesigning the elite skill. That would calm down a lot of people.

Wolfric.9380:

I like this version but i would definitly use final shielding. It fits much better.
Its extreme glassy. I know how condi ele plays an you die to other condi builds with that! Especially necro and condi mesmer will just squish you. Also a good thief is nearly instant death.

While baltazar rune is great for burn consider traveler and substitute air signet for cleansing flame.
Then replace the sigil of bursting with sigil of earth! More condi damage + it covers your burn from cleanse.
Then you can consider taking diamond skin to absorb the first condi burst or stone heart. You won´t fire earth signet much. Its for catching oponents and the crit chance for fire is nice but not essential because you have nearly 55% + ferocity without.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQJAodnMIC9NglNAOOA8RgBBALCAhyi4ED2BJxaT2GSDA-TxhAABVr+zEnAgrV+R4+DA8AAiWPAbKBDAgAcxWMAO5JP5JP5J7iX8iX8iXsUAPqsC-e

Significant more survivability and you won´t notice hitting less hard.
Necro will still win ;-). But this hits dam brutal.

I would use Dire/Rabid trinkets with Dire s/f instead.

So now Anet is giving might stacking to the most powerful heavy-armor/high hp pool class. Why would you run tempest in pvp when you can run another class that has twice the armor/hp, will do 10 times more damage and have a elite that isn’t complete kitten?