Guild Wars 2

I wonder if following is correct assessment (quoting ashlenty.9358 from closed thread):

“RAID guild off around 12pm-1am, so Multimapswitch is on. When a BL is in peace there is only scouts (~5) while all the others are in an BL at war. When the peace is broke, the multimapswitch …switch to restore the peace. :p
Basicaly, example: RBL 5ppl, BBL 5ppl, GBL 5ppl, CBE 35ppl.”

Because if it is, issue is nonexistent. In its current formulation at least.

It seems to me that having ~50 people ingame at WvW spread across all BLs and EBG at any given point in time is not even a challenge for T1 server, that’s probably happening naturally. Then the only question remaining is how to do what VS does with these resources dueing the day – to organize them.

Ideally what I’d love to see is Anet being more open and publishing all kinds of WvW stats including map population graphs (as they did once with queue graphs). So we don’t wander in darkness calling for everyone and their dog’s opinion based on their fragmented, anecdotal experience and assumptions.

Yeah, I know…

OTOH above quote may be very well a product of same fragmented experience.

Charmide.4891:

Hatchet.4513:

Good for you, I would still say conventional working hours if you include travel is 6am-7pm. When all borders are full in prime time after 6/7pm Desolation wins imo.

No. You don’t have to “imo” this, just look at the numbers.
http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/16/
7pm is our weak spot on VS, but week-end excluded, we are #1 in points past 8:30/9pm, and it’s prime.

All I see is huge bumps during the day, prime time being a close call. Are we looking at different graphs?

To be clear, I didn’t take part in that recent Garrison siege everyone else from Deso seems to be referring to. I’m talking about my experience during a number of earlier battles of same scale both in Garrison and in other keeps.

@username: Yeah, whatever. Considering L2P is a wide term with lot of contextual interpretations, I can even sign that for giggles

P.S. Now I know that powers that be do not have sence of humor. What a line it was that got deleted

username.4932:

No this is pure L2P issue (there are many successful tactics to counter this), balance is perfectly fine on this point.

You must never been in situations described above as a reason for concern about this mechanics. To just survive in these kinds of battles you need to move constantly, to avoid majority of damage and to select best positions and timing for focused attacks. It’s not your “Right, we wiped them out of the circle, now spread at the center of lord room, land AoE around and make sure nothing hostile gets close to that corpse” or “Hey private, your group guards this corpse while we steamroll enemy remainings around” kinds of scenarios.

You cannot guard static object, survive, and destroy your enemy at the same time in these kinds of situations with constant enemy incs. You’ll be overwhelmed and wiped floor with.

Given the amount of culling you get in large scale battles, it is even less possible.

I’m not sure what you are getting at.

“something is broken until it gets fixed” – what it is exactly? 24/7?

WvW is a highly competitive part of otherwise rather casual game that is GW2 (except sPvP ofc) and it is designed to be that way. To demand making it more casual by considering out of game limitations such as amount of time you are willing to dedicate to it is like you come to any sports official and say: “I cannot dedicate that much time to this sport because I have other thing to do but I want to have a shot at the top of Olympics pedestal and a gold medal. So please forbid all athletes to dedicate more time to training than I can”.

What I love about GW2 is that it is one of rare MMOs where you don’t need to be dedicated to stay competitive, gear-wise at least.

But if you take personal (literally) responsibility for server ranking in WvW, that’s your decision, that’s not what WvW’s idea is and that’s not what it promotes. Communication, politics, coordination, head hunting, all to make server as a whole competitive – that’s what it is about.

That’s a horse beaten brutally to death, Magnus. No need to repeat same things over and over again. That’s one of the core ideas of WvW. If you can’t get coverage as a server, you are not at the top as a server.

username.4932:

This is L2P issue, end of story.

No, this is an issue with balance not scaling well. There’s actually a number of issues of this type in GW2 in my opinion. Not in “bug” category, more in a “fine-tuning” or “suggestion” one.

Genev.2450:

Tons of fun yesterday in bay at Elona Reach BL.
I was running with GH, and i almost believed we’d get t3, strongly reinforced, bay out of sheer stubbornness. :p

Yes, it seems that VS keep defenders finally found a counter to out bash-da-door tactic by managing to pack the inner with correct number of superior siege that cannot be destroyed from outside and berserkers bursting freely from safe positions inside. We had to withdraw from Bay eventually.

Though GH didn’t run the numbers yesterday we usually do. We couldnt even protect our siege from enemy trebs. So we didn’t even try to go that route.

Good fights throughout the week on Elona BL nonetheless.

P.S. Oh, by the way, “chainsaw guy” from VS – we love you man! xD

Offski.4897:

In my opinion in no way is this working as intended. You cannot be expected to kill enemies pooring into a keep non stop whilst also having to defeat/defend against the keep lord multiple times, due to him being instant rezzed with the rezzer putting himself in limited danger.

I’ll second that. The thing you should keep in mind is that this skill balance of having long cd etc you are talking about doesn’t scale well.

I have a 45min video of our team in enemy Garrison lord room. Consider this: for 45 minutes we were there alive destroying all the waves pouring from resp and through the WP (which is btw a separate and serious issue but it should be fixed soon). They are wiping for 45 minutes, we are holding the ground at lord room. Shouldn’t this be reflected somehow in keep capping progress and rewarded? Sure, you have capping progress bar gradually filling tick by tick. But with constant Lord insta-res by kamikaze doctors and progress reset as a result, this is all hopeless. Because at some point you just get tired. While enemy just keeps running at you half-naked like hordes of zombies.

It may be intended by Anet or not. But this should not be happening IMO. If it is intended, we who disagree with such mechanics ask them to reconsider.

Ogre.1750:

its called GUTS, DEDICATION, PASSION, ENDURANCE. Yup, you heard me. Things that have been lackign recently in Deso. For instance, to be more specific, my crew. Seems like only a handful of us give a kitten about a gold medal…

Thing is… we want a gold medal. But in slightly different game than what WvW is at the moment. WvW as a whole is more like chess. Majority of us, as it seems, find most of joy in just a fraction of it called GvG/GvZ.
At least that’s what it looks like from inside Golden Squad of [GH].

That is not to say, of course, that we ignore other sides of WvW. The goal for GH this week was set to play for points primarily. It’s just that it’s not what we can enjoy for long. If at all.

Mystery.7392:

Srsly MoS.
Why the people always running away in 1v1 situations?

If you ever see me in the field alone, I will be most probably running in particular direction avoiding 1v1 as much as possible. Guess why? Because my raid leader is screaming at me in TS for me being so useless/slow that I’ve managed to die so I have to rejoin my squad as fast as possible. believe me, duels or anything red in LoS for that matter is of least possible concern for me at that moment.

Kimotra.8935:

What i mean is we can’t control the whole server, there will ever be cheaters, that’s why nobody should generalize… We just have to report them, from both sides.
…

It’s too easy to point out the behavior of one person and to say that the whole server cheat.

Not to bring this up again, just wanted to make clear again: There’s no generalization or blanket blame. I’ll break it down for you:
- You attack the tower and got cheated so you didn’t cap it. Otherwise you probably would. Result of single person misbehavior? Yes, maybe. Consequences for your team spirit and eventual global server result in match-up? That’s for sure.
- Now, occasional cheats do not bother anybody too much since you can’t really control everybody. When it happens on a regular basis however, it is only natural to bring this up to opponent’s www community so we can deal with it from both sides. Because majority, I’m sure, are all for clean fights. I personally would like to know about such things happening on our side so I can be more informed and be on a lookout for anyone trying to ruin all the fun for everyone.
- To get a wave of “whiners whiners” responses to this… Well, whatever. That’s not the conversation I’m interested to be part of.

Mods however are correct in forbidding accusations of particular players, guilds or severs as a whole on official forum. There’s Anet support and in-game reporting thing for that.

Kimotra.8935:

But is your server really clean ? I mean, are you sure that anyone in your server (deso) is using these cheats?

We are most probably not. Neither clean nor sure. The difference is in attitude.

If I see anything like that on our side I won’t just pass by and then post “whiners whiners hahaha” messages in reply to opponents complaints who noticed that guy too. I’d acknowledge the problem and would make everyhing to get that kitten banned in the first place.

[OT] Man, I hate when it happens, to have your post deleted just because your quoted some wacko who’s post is getting deleted. Sigh…
Tip: Don’t quote anything you suspect can be deleted by the mods.
[/OT]

Yeah, that was… unexpected, to say the least.

But to think what a mess ladder would be next week or two after reset… Not the situation you want to put servers in that far into the WvW history. Even if it could result in more balanced ladder after it would have stabilized.

Anyway, couldn’t help myself but chuckle at these metagamers who tried to be strategic by throwing fight whole last week in an attempt to exploit reset consequences.

danlarusso.2790:

I almost feel a bit sorry for GH.

On Eternal Battleground we don’t have any of the bigger organized guilds to fight you. If you want a challenge, you may want to switch to one of the Borderlands.

I mean, your guildraid usually is bigger then our random Zerg – is that really fun to you? I don’t get it. Whatever floats your boat i guess…

We cannot control who and with what number attacks us. We are always out there looking for zergs, trains and toughest challenges. That’s why we often take and camp resp towers (BL) or towers near enemy keeps (EB). Because this is big attraction, you cannot stand your nearest tower being captured. Or we jump into the fray inside enemy keeps.

As of sizes of our raid compared to your zergs – please. Today our EB raid was 25 tops. And at one point we had feeling that whole server of Kodsah was trying to rush it.

P.S. And yes, we run BL as much as EB. Today we painted all home BL green (boooring) and then decided to switch to EB. Tomorrow we may not, if we find ourself on BL that is not empty. With queues we’ve got atm each map switch for a raid can be a show stopper. I personally spent probably 4 hours total in queues and maybe just an hour in fights.

The only thing that saddens me is that it is possible for two! servers each to come to server-wide agreement to throw this week’s fight so they have easy start and get advantage points-wise by fighting weaker opponents after reset.

Just take a look at EU T1:
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups

/facepalm

Yes, yesterday was a great WvW night for us. From improvised 3 or 4-round GvG vs EoW near south supply, to stand on Kodash resp tower (our specialty as it seems), to Hills siege where we eventually facerubbed reinforced inner door under massive AoE from the walls and behind the door including 5 arrow carts and cata, to trying ninja-cap Garrison with less than 10-men group and one golem as a closing mission which didn’t went all that well lol when we got to the lord room and got run over by BB defenders.

What a night it was!

We want moar

P.S. Ah you mean right now on Deso border? Too bad our main squad is on BB BL. Do you have queues on BB? Cuz we can’t join Deso BL atm (

Daxter.4286:

Also lol @Golden Horde taking a tower and farming kills whole evening today.

Well yeah, except it wasn’t tower, it was several different towers and rescue deployments throughout the night. But as soon as we started dropping teammates who were going offline, we had to adjust so we took couple hours stand at Quentin. As much as it was farming (kills, badges,gold), it was also a great training. There were probably some of our best “outnumbered battles” tonight both in the open and during tower defense.

Also we were a huge attention draw for both BB and Kodash.

So thieves are PvE consumable? Hmm, interesting thought…

Aveneo.2068:

I think I stole a Guild Catapult from Baruch Bay and ran off with it into our tower when they accidentally dropped the box on the ground instead of the buildsite. :P

Happened to me too lol. I was jumping into the fray from the wall and was spamming F during the process of cleaning up our tower’s welcome mats. Then I’ve jumped back inside the tower and uh.. whaaa… what is this?.. there was a blueprint in my hands

MikeFerguson.8921:

They will not be usable in WvW after the next patch.

Mike, while you at it, you might want to look at the whole list of PvE consumables that are useable in WvW. Some of them are just fun and some AFAIK already been fixed, but golem in a box is not the only one that can shift balance on WvW. Like Skale Venom for example:
http://dulfy.net/2013/01/16/gw2-useful-and-fun-consumables-guide/#10

Fanfaron.6109:

simple put it here, some GvG fights vs [GH]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWy7yHRGm5o&feature=player_detailpage
good fight GH!

Quality turtle trolling at 2:10 lol

Cheers

Thimill.9162:

They told me “Ok stay to scout and tell us if enemy are coming !”

Did you answer properly so they knew from the get go they can count on you? Like “OOooooOoollrightie, quaggan’s on duty!”

Dayra.7405:

PS: There is currently a good way to decide if a castle belongs to Elona or not:
If it has rams on the Wall it belongs to Elona, if not someone else must be the owner, as we currently have a WvW-achievement (Use many supplies) oriented group on Elona that likes to do such things.

Jokes aside, decoy siege/building sites is tactic that can make difference when used properly.
“Hey, we destroyed that mortar and now they have a building site for it again but it’s all good, it’s barely built. Let’s build our trebs now….”
BAM!
“WTH, where did that came from?!”

rchu.8945:

Svarty.8019:

Whether it works or not, I want to thank Habib and the team for their efforts.

Why? After the failed trial attempt, they need to show us something that actually works, instead something they “assume” would work. Too early to cheer anything Anet has done about the issue, imo.

Yeah, that’s true. There’s not much of anything we can see atm that addresses an issue. The final goal however, that is to get rid of culling for good, is the thing, I’d hope, everyone would support.

FrouFrou.4958:

This is how we roll in Desolation.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2wqc2sn.jpg

Awww, a photo of nursery full of newborn commanders ^_^

Kyus.3812:

for anyone who wants to see some of the highlighted issues and the general consensus

Just want to make it clear, when I was saying “general consensus was…” I meant “…among my teammates”, not the bigger picture.

Yeah, I’ve seen this during the December trial too. Target icon also disappears when you target goes out of culling basket and then goes back in. Which is not helping either.

However if you are talking about organized groups, there’s voice communication. Commander icon also stays on the map all the time.

In the end we had different opinions about new culling system back then but general consensus favored it over current one because seeing your enemy is a priority. You don’t have much of other ways to control enemy movement and assess their numbers during combat. It is not the case regarding your teammates in organized group however.

I just hope that new culling system received fine-tuning since December and it’s not exact code it was then.

Considering two edge cases (You don’t see any allies but all enemies and vice versa) I’d definitely choose former one. And I’ve seen what it’s like in latter case where you have a sizeable zerg on your side and do not see A SINGLE enemy when it is as far as 10 meters away while there’s actually A LOT of them there.

Kyus.3812:

I’m very bemused, wasn’t the feedback about the December trial, how much everyone hated it.

Everyone? No, it wasn’t.

Got it. I thought so initially but people are talking about 100 different things here as a “culling problem for smaller groups”.

I’d assume however that decision process for a group of 5 as to what is the next step and what would be the best tactical approach doesn’t really change if ratio is 1:5 or if it is more.

Also, actual numbers can make all the difference. 50 total seems a bit low. Is it that low really?

I have question along the same lines. We’ve noticed that sometimes our more known commanders get suppressed in the chat just after couple of sentences while regular members can chat away in /m or /t for hours.

Is it possible that this can be somehow induced by enemy scouts on our servers reporting commanders or is my tin foil hat too thick and this is something about the way commanders structure their, uh… commands that triggers temporary ban in chat?

After reading all 4 pages (though I have to admit I’ve started to skip through at some point), I’m still do not understand what exactly is the problem smaller groups have with affinity culling system? Can anyone please give a clear explanation or a link to one?

At the end of the day rankings are result of the whole server’s effort. It is silly to talk in terms “you are only winning because of X”. It’s like in football to talk to forward and say something along the lines of “you are only winning because your goalkeeper gives you victory”. Who cares, both are the part of the same team ad result is a team effort.
The only thing you do when talking like that is saying “MY server has weakness there”. Well, deal with it. Or at least have some dignity and accept defeat of your server as a whole.

Tellerion.8102:

Thanks Gatekeepers of Desolation(GoD) and Golden Horde(GH) for the enjoyable fights at SFR BL the last couple of days.

Hey, back at ya
It is much more fun to collide with another solid train head on than driving through sheafs of hay that is unorganized groups and zergs, isn’t it

You guys make it sound as if you think that this points game is rocket science. It is quite obvious what we should do to stay or progress in T1.

I bow to VS for their continuous focus on result as a server but at the same time I cannot help myself but think “how come they are still not bored to death by this unending, always the same and essentially PVE content that is to watch timers, run hours clock- or counterclockwise capping camps just in time, upgrading these walls, doors, piling up siege etc”. I mean, that was quite amusing for some time. But quickly got old as all MMO PVE content, however “dynamic” developers tried to make it. PvP (in this case team or massive one) however is always fun. I only find joy in battles versus players as part of team of roughly the same or smaller sizes.

I just want to say that when you throw out words like “survive” and “killing yourself to T2”, it may sound so silly to some. But that’s just me.

As a server, in my opinion Deso has pretty much air-tight solid WvW core, so you can’t hope to “drown” it. We are not going anywhere. T2 or not, no matter how things play out this week, I’m sure it’s not the last one for Deso in T1.

Deffe.2967:

Xispeo.1706:

I doubt you will stay a long in T1 Deso guys, we know we wipe you with ease in 1v1

This is just ridiculous. We beat your 40man zergs with 15-20 people. You cant even take us on at 2:1 ratio.

One who’s point of view is not that narrow due to one’s responsibilities (like Offsky of Troma) would say that each server has a full scale of WvW skill levels and a lot of teams focusing on different aspects of WvW/PvP. So both quotes above are most probably true, no doubt about it. They just do not reflect the whole picture. My personal experience with VS is more or less summed up by this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inSNFohYUTw
But that’s just a fraction of what’s going on over a week on all 4 maps.

VS BL. Garrison. Right now. Is it half an hour, hour, more?.. I’ve lost the sense of time already and could have filled a dozen of bags.

That’s what I would call “epic” if it wouldn’t become too boring wiping countless resp-waves again and again and again.

Seeing VS commander naked however – priceless.

Magnetron.5823:

Viz and Sea have a nice time capping on camps, Desolation hardly does anything about it.. these things are great points if you can hold.

We just focusing on fun part. 6 arrow carts, two catas and swarms of defenders on the walls? Yeah, whatever, we will facerub your reinforced gate anyway :/
Points metagame is boooring…

You need MOAR berserkers!

username.4932:

You come here saying you want to make everything to kick french people out of T1 (we still wonder why) and then you are surprised that we play the points ?

Oh brother…

“French people”, really?.. Here’s news for you: Nobody cares if VS is french!

Or Russian, or Eskimo for that matter. You are undisputed champ atm, what you’d expect, love and adoration from all the ladder? No. You are primary target for everyone and you worked your kitten off to become one.

It’s just that some people think that you do not deserve it because their view on what Top1 server should look and act like is slightly different.

deepee.2830:

I cannot speak for Deso and not sure about about any Russian alliance, but I can say that SFR’s main goal is to kill Vizunah and we don’t care about the other server. We have arrived for many matchups now so don’t be surprised that you have our full attention

Exactly. It’s about priorities, nothing more. Today we almost fell victims of SFR’s golem rush at Garrison on Deso border while we were having fun near VS resp tower. Here’s your “alliance” in action.

Angelyne.2936:

Vizunah don’t double teamed with Arborstone, few guilds from both alliance tryied to, but the “alliance” lasted 15 minutes and was broke, and that was only because of Ruin’s xenophobia and insults toward frenchs. not to keep a rank.

It doesn’t really matter. You don’t know specifics of current “alliance”, how much of each server population it affects and reasons behind it. What you are saying is just that you failed at strategy and coordination in your version of alliance. Your fellow Vizunians and Arboreans tried but failed. That’s all.

AEND.8310:

Yes, there was an alliance. (a lot of irony skipped)

At least we are not denying it. Have balls to admit it, will you.

Jon Snow.6780:

Because all i read is: Boooohooohhh,they won`t let us pvdoor!!

Because you are reading something else. What I see too often from VS is running behind the walls and manning piles of siege unless you are in swarm side of numbers scale. Come on, accept the challenge in the open if you are all for fair and good game and skill and what not.

But that was a bait. Because protecting your income which is strategic goal for each week’s endgame is a good thing and correct approach. It is quite different and harder than just running into the battle like in 300 singing battle songs. I just wanted to point out that alliances fall into the same category of strategic tools.

If I may be KO for a moment, the point is to get you bronze for the first time and put you out of T1 eventually. How any kind of alliance is opposing to skill or good/fair game is beyound me.

Moreover, when Deso was on RUIN steroids, you, VS, were doing the same thing with another French server. Or at least were trying, since your alliance fell victim of intolerant stupid server pride (if it is to be believed what you were saying at the time).

I don’t get your frustration. You are in a win-win situation here anyway, it’s like freeroll. Enjoy new challenge.

P.S. I strongly disagree with alliances being “bad”. It is expected in three-way matchups and is strategic opportunity that is always there but requires efforts beyound your own server which is even harder than local coordination. I guess the difference is the way you look at WvW and as a result the way you decide what is appropriate behaviour and what is not. If you look at WvW as a sport, please show me the real-world teamsport that employs three-way matchups, and please explain what would be the reason for such sport to exist. There’s no reason for three-way matches because it cries for alliances and that’s not what you’d like to see in conventional sport where each team uses only its own resources since no other resources are available under its rules and it has only one opponent at any given moment.

But WvW is not a sport. Well, it is for some extent, but not entirely. Because it is also a war.

StormWolf.7645:

Never understood why the WP is contested like it is…why not just have Outer Gate being hit make the Keep Contested, but Inner Keep cause WP to be Contested. Makes more sense to me.

I’ll second that. Making WP contested based on outer perimeter (walls or gate) being breached (as opposed to being just hit) makes a lot of sense.

Regarding thief inside citadel area, that’s should be reported of course and offender should be banned. However if you expect to be safe inside citadel just do not leave area where you have invulnerability buff. If you take a closer look, this thief lured you to the area where you are not invulnerable and only then engaged in the combat.

And to rub it in, yesterday there was TWO NPC commanders attacking NE and NW towers almost simultaneously on Arbor border. And after that third one came to NE tower just minutes after second was killed at NW.

Bsically Anet is giving you both towers on home map for free. And Garrison eventually, as a consequense. I think generally this breakout event is good thing but needs a little bit of fine tuning.. It shouldn’t give your opponent an edge over you.
Think about it, if there were NPC commanders going out as new cars from conveyor, this means opponent had enough forces to just group up and give us hell on one of the towers without any NPC help.

P.S. Oh bthw what’s with invulnerability buff on NPC-placed siege?!

To reiterate, there seems to be something wrong with NW tower gate textures or whatever and sometimes there’s nothing you can do to prevent this.
I’m not saying it cannot be used intentionally, I don’t know. My experience is however that you can be thrown on the other side of that gate by just standing close to it during the siege. And some mesmers (me at least for sure) often prefer to stay close to the gate during siege to man rams or just to face rub the gate with 1h sword and focus.

So in this case to “stop using exploit” would mean simply to stop attacking that tower from gate at all.

Not taking any side, just trying to provide balanced view.

P.S. Btw, catas behind the gates are geting old. Carts ftw )

Sombike.6291:

At least stop trying when u see me there next time? …

Isn’t that Signet of the Hunt? That was not a mesmer on these two screenshots, that’s ranger.