Guild Wars 2

Wompage.4586:

I get what you’re saying, but lets say MYA, sitting at #2 spot, just start declining GvG’s against any of the guilds in the top 10. No sanctions are needed, because the leaderboards mean absolutely nothing, but the community would regard them in a negative light (no disrespect to MYA, purely using you as an example<3 )

Let’s take a sligtly more complicated example. Let’s say that #1 gets so many requests that they just cannot accept every one of them. I mean, what is acceptable nr of GvGs in this case per week? 1? 3? 7?.. This leaves a huge grey area as to which requests to accept and which not to.

This is just to show that dreaming up too restrictive set of rules wouldn’t be productive in absence of support by the game (ie game mode). I wouldn’t say leaderbord means nothing, but would agree that we shouldn’t read too much into it and make it a “spine” of GvG community.

Hickeroar.9734:

Yaro.3251:

Hickeroar.9734:

I would amend rule #4 so that stack weapons are simply not allowed at all. EP instated a rule last night (in the middle of the Agg GvG) that stack weapons were not allowed. Guildies actually had to waypoint to spawn and buy new weapons/sigils in the spirit of fairness, being above reproach, etc.

Shouldn’t everybody have stack weapons AND battle weapons on WvW? I mean, unless you are wiping too much, stack weapons become useless as soon you’ve got your stacks so you better have something with useful sigil to switch it to. I know this may sound a bit too hardcore to some, but it is just a common sense, isn’t it?..

It’s a GvG setting. It’s a completely different, controlled setting. As it stands the undocumented rules say all stacks have to be cleared before every round of GvG. No guild is going to accept a set of rules that changes that.

Edit: Thanks to the OP for updating the post.

I’m not going to argue with that, it just seems strange that people are coming to GvG with stack weapons to begin with.

No guild is going to accept a set of rules that changes that.

Btw that’s just not true. Right now guilds are free to agree on whatever specifics. As long as it it fits into basic deathmatch setup I guess.

Hickeroar.9734:

I would amend rule #4 so that stack weapons are simply not allowed at all. EP instated a rule last night (in the middle of the Agg GvG) that stack weapons were not allowed. Guildies actually had to waypoint to spawn and buy new weapons/sigils in the spirit of fairness, being above reproach, etc.

Shouldn’t everybody have stack weapons AND battle weapons on WvW? I mean, unless you are wiping too much, stack weapons become useless as soon you’ve got your stacks so you better have something with useful sigil to switch it to. I know this may sound a bit too hardcore to some, but it is just a common sense, isn’t it?..

I never thought I’m color blind but at first glance at the map in-game I couldn’t for the moment tell if the spot was blue or green. Maybe it’s just my monitor though.

Anyway, jeezus guys, don’t you have more important things to moan and groan about?.. Changed the colors, big deal.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Yaro.3251:

It’s nice story Cactus, but flawed analogy. Since we are (often) not asking to fix what doesn’t work according to specs. It is more like “pimp my ride for free dude!”

Or stop doing the “free” stuff we already got…Dude seriously, don’t act like the stuff they are doing is free…seriously.

What do you mean? For me personally all WvW stuff is free. Am I doing anything wrong?

It’s nice story Cactus, but flawed analogy. Since we are (often) not asking to fix what doesn’t work according to specs. It is more like “pimp my ride for free dude!”

So Ogro, will you continue to update this topic or post weekly threads in WvW forum for each episode? Or both?

I just already have over 9000 pages open in browser constantly to keep up with different things and not forget to visit one page or another, so adding to this number doesn’t really help if it is not worth it

You think?
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/official-gvg-setup-in-gw2/

I appreciate all the discussion, but let’s not forget that the idea of this thread is to get an answer from Anet rep. Be it Devon or anybody else. C’mon guys, don’t be shy. And if you gotta nothing to say on the subject, just say it. Or, you know, make up your mind finally so you actually have something to say.

Kicking GvG-related threads to darkest corners of this forum while leaving “asuraball” and “quaggan flashmob” ones alone may be a hint, but I’m sure you have better ways to get your message across.

Wow.

Any video of this available?

Ogre.1750:

I mean, responding literally to EVERY thread in the main page except ours wasnt funny enough, now this. Picture my Jimmies rustled.

Very logical and coherent to move us and leave other stuff like asuraball there. Massive loving. We’re suddenly worst than that pver infection. Baffled really.

Exactly.

Yeah, well, this is really disappointing.

Just shows the disconnect between most dedicated players and Anet who has no idea how vital GvG is for WvW, for keeping competition and motivation high.

I guess their perfect WvW is when all servers are like Vizunah. I’d love to see how it works out for them if GvG scene would disappear from WvW like this thread disappeared from WvW forum.

Let’s keep this question up and don’t let it go away unanswered.

Well obviously I’m horribly generalizing here since there are a lot of different strategies and team compositions. Basic idea stands however. The rest depends on what your opponent’s team composition is, what are their tactics and how well they execute on it.

What I was trying to say is in general AoE skills are more profitable than single-target. And then there are details.

Creo.8750:

• grips into / out of death zones (thiefs can grip, right? maybe there are grips of several people or spammable grips, too)

There’s a couple of things in addition to what Soulorai said:
Current meta in general favors AoE skills over single-target ones. Without LoS- and choke-points (GvG spot being simple flat arena), you don’t have possibility to get an edge by applying pressure to part of the opponent’s team while being in the spot where they cannot do the same. So the idea is to harm as many enemies as possible constantly. Global harm may be direct or indirect. Most common case of indirect pressure to whole opposing team is RL harassment.

If you select another target for many-to-one harassment, like support elem as Soulorai mentioned, that’s in general suboptimal tactic since they will be attacking your whole team while you at least in part will be focusing someone specific. Nonetheless, it works well in cases where your opponent is on a regroup/disengaged and you caught someone on periphery or someone who just fell behind, for example as a result of cc+death bomb that you executed earlier which forced opponent to disengage. Because, at any rate, killing even a single opponent in 20v20 is huge. 2-3 is critical, 5 is basically gg. Even more so in 15vs15.

Achilles.2197:

Ugh, you just had to say “Nancy” and make me laugh. (I did smile irl reading that).

And that’s exactly why I used it. Cheers

At the end of the day though, in all srs bsns, since GW2 is supposed to be the successor, it isn’t logical to use the name from it’s predecessor’s highest pvp format when the skill gap is as large as it is.

Maybe, but we really don’t care since it is too freaking generic to feel it’s inappropriate in any way. There’s many illogical things in GW2, starting with it’s name. Yeah, I know, don’t jump on me from all the trees. I know it’s lore thing. Doesn’t make it any more logical though to have basically no PC Guild vs Guild content. So, you know…

We all know that GW GvG required a much higher level of individual and group skill than any pvp format in GW2.

I don’t know that. Simply because I didn’t play GW1. And I. Don’t. Care.

Arya.9021:

something
…
Quit trying to remake something that was already invented, and not to mention
perfected.
…
something other

It’s all great except we are not trying to invent or remake anything. For the 1000th and I hope last time:

1. GvG is a generic term. If you don’t like it being used for whatever other than GW1 GvG – deal with it.
2. There’s no inheritance between “real” GvG and “Nancy”, and we don’t feel like there should be any. GW2 GvG was evolved naturally as a community thing, solution to the problem of wild WvW open field where you control nothing, neither numbers on both sides of the fence, nor any participant behavior. So results of fights in the open always were and still are heavily disputable.
3. If GW2 GvG will evolve to something else than above – that’s great. But there’s no urgency or necessity in that. Because we are not aspiring to any other game’s any other mode. We just do what we find both fun and competition in. Both in the open and by the mill.

The thing with numbers is, we didn’t come up with them specifically for GvG. 20-25 is probably a minimum number of players WvW raid should have to represent a force to be reckoned with map-wide. Anything less can be easily overwhelmed by bigger opponent raids and hence limited to local tasks and “careful” roaming.

As long as we are trying to stay relevant on WvW, and as long as GvG is inseparable from WvW, I don’t think smaller setups should become mainstream in GvG.

For me 20vs20 is the best format.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Thesilentflute.8761:

Everyone on the “GvG” “leader boards” above rank 20 has a 100% loss ratio for NA and above 52 for EU. It seems more like a pyramid scheme to me lol.

lol you "GvG"ers are too much you can’t see it or explain it, but its there… skill.

What about this yaro?

Huh? What about what?

This could be a lengthy conversation if you are really into it, but for some reason I don’t want to invest any more significant time in you.

So, in short (kinda) GvG guilds are in general not those who lead servers to 1st places in match-ups. We do what we love most and do best – roam free searching for good tough fights both in the open and for structures. If we can upset opponents so much that they leave the map en mass, great, it is painted in our color. This is however also the moment where we’ll probably leave it too, switching to another border where’s action at. We are not overly interested in “places” and “points” so we tend to do less of what affects them best in a long run.

Anyway, what’s your point?

It is so funny in our last T1 match up it was a pve guild "GvG"ing from blackgate. So is that’s what you guys do? You challenge Pvers and RPers to pvp lol and then spectate it like its not a farce.

No, that’s not what we do.

With server mobility the way it is you couldn’t set up proper matches even if you wanted to.

Yeah, match-up volatility makes GvG flow kinda sporadic.

That doesn’t matter though does it cause that’s not what it is all about ehh. It is about ekitten and it doesn’t matter if your opposition are pvers as long as you can make a video.

You asked me a question, but didn’t wait for an answer, just went ahead as if the answer was already known. If you don’t want me to just start ignoring you, you may want to get your kitten together and start being coherent in the logic of your posts. Btw the answer is two quotes above.

And yest, there’s not many motivations in any game. Pride (ekitten) is one of them. Fun and profit are the rest (although “fun” differs wildly from person to person).

What’s yours?

Elegant Avenger.8042:

I don’t think chasing around a guy shouting directions into his mic can really be considered GvG.

The basic meta is exactly that, but there can be quite more to it, depending on teams of course.

It is just that there’s so much is happening on the screen that it looks like complete chaos for uninitiated. And more often than I’d like it, it actually is. I’d be glad though if Ogro would try to pay more attention to the moments where particular team members are assigned to specific tasks, or where actions of one or couple of team members turn the tide of the fight. It would give good insight to what is happening behind the cloak of AoE fields.

It is true that there’s far less of “OK buddy, that’s my skill vs your skill, let’s dance” moments. It is also true that in absence of official game mode, GW2 GvG is progressing in the meta quite slowly. We are still at the beginning and there’s so much space for improvement and more sophisticated tactics.

And important thing is, we are in no way trying to claim any affiliation with GW1 GvG or pretend that these have anything in common or are on par regarding skill level and meta maturity, or that GW2 GvG is a successor to GW1 GvG – nothing like that.

GvG is simply a generic term for someone without GW1 experience, so it was natural choice to call our “kill-trading Nancy mayhem” a GvG. Many, I’m sure, had no idea neither cared if there was something called GvG in GW1.

Ogre.1750:

Anyways, its safe to say delivery will occur within the next few hours. Sorry for the sloppy joe job -_-

Take your time Ogro, we all appreciate your effort in putting this together and keeping it up

Jayne.9251:

Waste of time Yaro.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Anet-you-have-to-do-something-about-GvG/
Pages 3-4 kind of gives you insight.

No worries Jayne

I just have some free time and a taste to shut down a troll.

Sorry Flute, but that’s how you come across from my POV. And that’s the best case scenario since other options are worse.

Btw, I’ve followed that thread and Flute in particular thoroughly.

Thesilentflute.8761:

As you know it isn’t really an issue on our server as most of our guilds wvw.

Where it IS an issue then?

Please be as specific while answering this question as you can. Then maybe we can advance in resolving whatever problem you think any person/server in particular may have with GvGs.

This does however effect wvw negatively as a whole effecting both server mobility and player morale.

How would you know if your server as we just realized does not have this problem? Please elaborate.

I have a hard time understanding the issue with making sure that you don’t cause anyone else problems.

You’ve lost me here. The issue with making something to not cause problems, wut?..

Arranging GvGs so they do not disrupt other play styles? Well duh, of course we are all for it.

If this were the case I would have never made a thread and saying it is an isolated issue is pretty absurd; saying that these are planned around there servers wvw communities is even more absurd.

Well, guess what, this IS the case. It is just that it is not the case EVERYWHERE.

Are you actually telling us that you yourself ask the guilds on watch if you can and if a commander say’s no you don’t…. you turn off your stream.. cancel your plans.. and waste your prep time…. can you guys smell that it’s bull#$%#.

What I’m actually telling you is this:
Our community has agreed that guilds who want to GvG on regular basis are entitled to their play style, because same guilds are working their kitten off in the field all the time they are not GvGing and bring value to the server WvW community as a whole. And GvG itself helps them to be that way. So we have a planner tool that informs everyone, that at particular time on particular day of match-up particular guild plans a GvG on particular border. All other guilds therefore can plan their WvW-related activities accordingly. Or object if they feel that this would be totally inappropriate time and spot for GvG (though that never happened yet AFAIK). Then, if that is the case, discussion ensues.

This is how you approach a problem in a community that is respectful and inclusive.
Whether that would work for you – I don’t know. This is just an example of the way community can solve what is basically social issue in sandbox environment, by itself.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Allot of your reasons at the top shouldn’t apply in the 48 hour period before reset.

You should elaborate more here because as far as I’m concerned, the only one that may not apply is #4.

I and others have put forth options to solve a problem your micro community has created with little to no cooperation from said community.

What are you talking about? No, really – what?

• Separate game mode? We are all for it. It’s just that it is YOU who should be prepared for your game mode (WvW) to die out because most of top WvWers switch to the new one.
• Arranging GvGs so they do not disrupt other play styles? Well duh, of course we are all for it. And planning them just before reset is not the only option.

What I am doing is trying to work through a problem here where both parties will be satisfied.

What you are doing is venting on official forum and making a global case out of a local problem which many communities have successfully solved already.

It doesn’t take long to get the idea that WvW is not a strictly ruled game mode but rather a sandbox. So majority of conflicts should be solved by players themselves. Of course WvW also can be changed to the environment with strict rules that promote particular play style and punish all others. But guess what – it’s not. And please let me see you trying to make it one.

It is about consideration for other players, but I also think the actual game mode that was made for us should supersede one a very small group of players created.

“Actual game mode” is quite a fuzzy thing, don’t you think?

1. If I spend hours collecting stacks of pearls in the sea, is it acceptable game mode on WvW?
2. If I’m obsessed with Yakslapper achievement and do nothing else on WvW, is it acceptable?
3. If I’m obsessed with Ultimate Dominator achievement and do nothing else on WvW, is it acceptable?
4. If I just want my dailies done and stick to whatever group I think would complete them quicker, is it acceptable?
5. If I want to level my character straight from lvl2 to lvl80 exclusively on WvW, is this acceptable?
6. If I’m a pinchpenny and do not use food, do not pay for upgrades, do not help commanders with siege, is that acceptable?

I can probably dream up a lot more of these. So what is exactly your “game mode”? How exactly we all should play on WvW?

As a side example, there’s an argument from GvG fans that a team GvGing distracts at least same amount of players from opposing team. Plus some spectators from both sides and even maybe ones from third server.

And there’s a counter-argument that WvW is three-way match-up. But if you look at it, same team deployed to the field would’t probably be able to counter the activity of two teams of roughly same size and skill level from opposing server*s* simultaneously, would they? So the counter-argument is invalid.

On a personal lv I do think it is just kill trading but with the loot nerf it is no longer an issue. Beyond that I still think it’s skill less play and we will see if it lasts through the nerf. but lets focus on working on a way that works for both of us.

You made it clear on several occasions so I don’t see why you would repeat it as an answer to my post.

Oh, btw, even if we just forget everything I’ve said above, I gotta question: Why didn’t you say anything in connection to my main argument – being constructive and working with your own peers to come up with better WvW community. How’s things are going with that?

Zikory.6871:

Thesilentflute.8761:

Zikory.6871:

Thesilentflute.8761:

I agree liquid, but since it isn’t an everyday thing anyway why couldn’t it be done on the day before reset to eliminate any inconvenience.

Because of scheduling issues. Not everyone can just play when ever they want. Also NA guilds that have players that work 9 to 5. There are a lot of reasons why GvG happen through out the week.

This doesn’t make sense. I understand that people work 9-5 but in a 48 hour period (The day before reset and reset day) it shouldn’t matter if there are scheduling issues in that large of a period I would think they would be impossible to work around during the week and all the maps are full on the weekends.

I was only using that as a example, there could be any number of reasons.

Basically there are following main reasons:

1. Guilds having more than one GvG for a week (lucky kittens)
2. Guilds that have far less brawls than they would like so they agree on any reasonable time their opponent proposes, who in turn may be from #1
3. IRL stuff, raid leaders or key players may not be able to play before reset
4. TZ differences.
5. Some guilds do not GvG before reset because either they want to be fresh and hungry for reset push, or it’s just the case that GvG is open-ended in therms of time and although most of them take about a hour, many things can happen that would push it further, and no one wants to have busted GvG because of server restart.
6. Any combination of the above

@Flute
In any case, Flute, it would be far more constructive if you would be both consistent in your arguments and try to keep emotions at bay.

Right now your position looks kinda comically contradicting:

“Hey Anet, there are some people who are zombie-mass-kill-trading on WvW and occupy precious slots thus killing the fun for all real WvWers! You should really do something about them!
But on the second thought, if they would do that horrible thing just before restart, that would be fine.
Oh, wait, I’ve got it! Better yet, give them their own instance for that despicable activity!”

You know, it is either you think this is total bukkitten so it should be officially banned, and then you should concentrate on the arguments supporting this view, or you accept that there is a wide variety of things people might find fun doing on WvW, and that’s OK. Therefore, being a community we should be inclusive and try to play together creating an environment where everyone can have their fun while not disrupting that for others.

If latter is true, it doesn’t really help your case if you are being so negative towards others’ play style. Especially if those people are the ones who are best geared, fooded and builded for WVW, and work for their server on WvW for majority of the week.

Of course it may be the case that you keep in mind particular problem on your server with particular people/guilds while discussing this kill-trading mayhem. That’s unfortunate, but in this case generalizing also doesn’t help. You seem to have no idea how better WvW communities operate on other servers so you are in no position to ask for global measures from Anet.

Some communities solve this problem of different play styles collision gracefully in a win-win way all by themselves. Granted, it is not easy and may be sometimes rough around the corners, but one is better off trying to work with their peers than kittening and moaning on official forum making complete troll out of themselves.

Then again, it may be exactly what you are trying to do.

I’m not quite sure.

Centrix.4065:

SOBRALIS NA MNE

Behold The Ultimate Raid Leader!

Centrix.4065:

Spasibo vsem

A word of advice: You should say “Vsem spasibo, vse svobodni” instead.

xD

Nah, I’m just kidding, that would be kinda trolling. Just couldn’t resist.

You just couldn’t resist ruining sarcastic exchange, could you

Aikanaro.2609:

Rich.1528:

Ahah)
Sounds sick.
I’ll try to follow these rules, fighting vs GD, coz i respect them. Never saw you without tag, that shows only your weakness. But rules.. it’s for Big boys

Hi, are you new here?

That just made my day

Are you?..

Ah, I see, April 10 first post, so indeed you are.

Thanatos.2431:

I don’t buy it. There never used to be a cap on AOE healing skills and the same calculations had to be done.

Exactly the same as what? As offensive AoEs? Really? Is there anything major besides geometry and targets being poisoned that affects healing from the target side?

I would argue that defensive AoE cap was a balance decision, but that was dictated by introduction of offensive AoE cap which was due to engine limitations.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Sorry but I am not sure of your sentiment, but no one can defend the fact that something was designed in such a manner that it cannot be fully implemented to its full capability.

Why not? It’s not like you have unlimited resources to achieve anything. Trade-offs is is an everyday life of large complex software projects. Any of. Ever heard of the project management triangle?

Saying that people “do not understand” is entirely accurate, but you do not have to be a programmer to understand that if something was ambitious in design, and now does not work properly, well it is either disappointing at best and a failure at worst. Just depends on where the individual falls along that spectrum of judgement.

Again, trade-offs. It is not like GW2 engine fails all over the place. You’ve said that (if I read you correctly) what makes this game great is also what leads to facepalm-worthy failures in certain circumstances.

Depending on a match-up, time of day, or any number of other factors, you may not hit skill delays at all and have a blast playing the game. Which shifts the conversation from “OMG someone did that 10 years ago and you cannot LOLz!” to “this game is great but has its limitations that developers either underestimated, accepted the risk during dev cycle or simply overlooked”.

TL/DR: A person does not have to know why something is failing, to understand that it is indeed failing.

Sure. There’s no question game is failing. Under certain circumstances. The question is if we are to dive into conspiracy theories or to accept that it is primary focus for developers to make the game that we’d play hours on end and have a blast. Which is tedious task considering the amount of contradicting requirements users have for entertainment.

For the record, GW2 for me is the best MMO I’ve played so far. It has a lot of issues some of which just drive me nuts, but if you take a look at bigger picture – daym, that’s the best thing in online gaming I had, like, ever?.. For me it is about being fair in assessment. Granted, I find joy in many things MMO provide, not only [mass] PvP.

Elvicof.8263:

Funny almost every other guild have registered previous matches both wins and losses.

GH didn’t have their first formal GvG vs [Rise] registered for a long time, it was added relatively recently. It also wasn’t 1:0 tbh. And I can tell you, if we were at the losing end of it, we’d be far less inclined to try and register it.

So it is all understandable considering unofficial nature of the format in general and ladder in particular. I’m not sure if you can force GvG results against registered guild that would not confirm it. And in current setup it is fine.

I don’t see any real problem with “serious business” vs “training ground”, inconvenience at best. If you are mature enough to access your strengths and weaknesses rationally, and on the other hand to respect other guilds’ decision to not make it official, then who cares, you’ll have your experience anyway. And if it is any good, it will probably end up being featured on GvG Showdown anyway

Clogging ladder by making every possible fight official is not a good thing at the moment, if at all. It is bad enough when I look at particular guild record and go: “who are all these guys? OK, I know this guild, this one and that one. But who are all the rest and how strong they are? No idea.”

Known guilds is what I’ll use to guess how strong the guild is based on its GvG record, not the bouts that are obviously unbalanced or against unknowns.

It is also true that historical data gets irrelevant quick as guilds evolve in their meta, team composition and head count. It is like looking at GH record:

Ok, they won first GvG, then took 3 rounds from RG, then long hiatus, then a couple of clear wins again. What does it tell you (no offense to any opponents really)? The only thing it tells you is that GH was pretty good at the time of GvG vs RG and probably was a runner-up on the imaginary ladder at the time. That’s it. But “at the time” was like 4 months ago.

TL:DR: Do not read too much into the ladder. It is an OK tool to get the general idea on what your next opponent might have at the table, but that’s it.

EDIT:

Can we just get past who’s the best guild?

Sorry, no

Do we care?

Sure we all do, you can’t be serious saying that in a competitive activity there’s no value in determining, crediting and remembering best “players”. In both “all-timers” and “super-novas” categories. The question is, if we have adequate instrument to have that kind of picture. The answer to this question is painfully obvious and that is something to think about too.

Wompage.4586:

Caid.4932:

I dont know. People still read a lot into these sparring matches. I definitely think the mentality of those involved could do with being adjusted a bit.

100% this!

As people have mentioned, the GvG meta is generally very cookie-cutter and stale, due to nobody wanting to risk trying anything new, as every fight is “official”

I don’t know…
GvG being on WvW means you have whole open field to experiment on. Granted, that’s not isolated environment as GvG itself, but you still have opportunity to test all kinds of ideas running open field, if you are determined to do so and look for balanced fights against organized opponents, not just busting pug zergs

Of course, it goes without saying that dedicated GvG game mode, be it based on WvW balance or sPvP one, would propel evolution of GvG meta. That would give us a training ground where, even if there are no opponents available atm, bigger guild could deploy two teams to the same arena to spar, train and test things out.

Jackie, you have valid points and if it was your initial response to Ogro, I’d be less inclined to reply.

Still I would argue that the high pace and level of dynamics in GW2 combat is a beauty in itself. The raw excitement of fast-paced and highly dynamic combat is self-valuable. I came from competitive FPS background so I know what am I talking about. Complexity is not everything. All that matters is if there’s a demand.

I don’t know about the things you’ve “quoted”, None of them sound like what I’d sign. Personally, I’m not sure if monetizing GW2 GvG would be a good thing (ie “e-sports”).

As of view count, it is probably a consequence, not a prerequisite. If we had a platform for GvGs like sPvP custom arenas with spectators, I’d argue we’d have much more live viewers for top GvGs. All I know is that GvG Showdown gets around 1000 views initially and 3,5k is what view count is on oldest one. That’s your numbers for “underground fight club” kind of thing that is GW2 GvG atm.

Jackie.1829:

What we see in GvG isnt really refined movement tbh, it takes discipline and practice but positioning in GW1 gvg was an actual skill which players may practice for 5 years and never develop, things like prekiting, giving away spike targets based on movements, target dancing by warriors to bait out protective enchantments, its an entire layer of complexity that will never ever develop in GW2 gvg.

It is all there, and you should know better

Some things may be toned down simply because of larger team sizes, but it is all there. GvG may seem more claustrophobic and chaotic (another word for latter – dynamic ) but there’s a method to this madness.

Prekiting is general tactic, not something game-specific and it is used in GW2 GvGs heavily. It manifests itself primarily at the start of fight during pre-engage phase. False pushes/skills, evading focus areas, many-to-one and one-to-many harassment – all that works, among other things, as both prekiting and baiting offensive/defensive CDs.

It is all, together with idea of constant pressure and outpacing your opponent, essential parts of GW2 GvG.

You cannot protect spike target in a way you would do in GW1 so it is less relevant to GW2.

I won’t go into comparing the difference in skill level requirements since I didn’t play GW1 so what do I know. But do not pretend that these generic tactics are somehow limited to one particular game.

You’ve put so much effort in putting this together

Warning, your head may explode if you read further!
/pun

Those “impossible achievements” serve mainly as a statistical dashboard, something to keep up with what your activity footprint is looking like compared to others. I’m sure you’ll find something along those lines in red posts on this forum. I remember reading it a while ago, but won’t spend time digging it up.

Whether that is a good thing or bad, that’s another story. But they are not meant to be real achievements. Not something anybody will complete in foreseeable future.

There are rare times where I’m having difficulty trying to find words to describe something, English being not my native. That second round between GD and Scnd was one.

It. Was. Beautiful.

But I wonder, what happened with GD around 9:00 of the video? They basically lost their edge there, took pause letting Scnd off their hammer of constant pressure. I wonder what the outcome of this battle would be without this pause.

I’m really interested to hear what was the reason for it because it looked like disruption in the pace of fight.

Oh, and Ogro, – keep it up! Really great stuff.

Yes, it is possible to have two simultaneously.

Holdyir.2918:

You conveniently didn’t quote the part where I said that I loved GW2 and wanted the best for it, which I do.

I didn’t because it was irrelevant to what I was saying, and over-quoting makes baby electrons cry. I didn’t imply you don’t love or somehow “against” GW2

Puandro.3245:

You never played daoc how can you say it seems it looks less dynamic when you dont even know exactly whats going on.

I specifically pointed out what I mean by “dynamic” – just general feeling from the looks of it.

You see, this discussion is revolving around specifics of computational complexity and no one here has really concrete evidence, at best few may have educated guess being professionals in software development industry. Which is something to take note of, but still is a guess. And even these few disagree with each other.

Some time ago there was similar discussion here and someone brought up EVE online with its massive battles. I never played it. Looking at these battles though on YT I clearly see that they are far less dynamic in terms of ship maneuvering speed relative to the battlefield and other ships. Just scale the size of battlefield down and imagine, if PCs in GW2 were that slow relative to usual size of GW2 battlefield, we probably wouldn’t even have this conversation about lags.

Nuka Cola.8520:

One question, what isn’t engine limited in gw2?

Gem store?

Why did you use such as “limited” engine for a 2012 game? All i hear is “out engine is limited for this and that”, its 2013, why are we stuck with something as limiting as an engine made in 90’s?

Everything is limited in some way of another. Well, maybe except the cosmos, and even that is up to discussion. When you are saying however that something as complex as action MMO engine is as limited as another one based on such narrow sample, you can’t be serious here.

You have made a lot of money from gw2 sales, still making tones with gem store, i hope you remove that ‘limitation’ in the months/years to come because its kinda laughable.

Going back to my first comment and talking purely from position of business logic, how much money WvW brings to Anet? I can say that being dedicated WvW player, I spend NONE for what I need on WvW, it’s just self-sufficient. I’m even steadily in the black gold-wise spending 90% of my time on WvW.

I’m not trying to imply anything there, just approaching your argument logically.

Holdyir.2918:

Straegen.2938:

mjharrison.3209:

Straegen.2938:

I know of no other action MMORPG that scales as well as this game. There probably is one out there and I would like to hear about it. I know DAoC was close but even it would at best struggle mightily under the fast pace, near constant zerg on zerg fights GW2 offers.

Darkfall routinely has sieges with >1K players in the same area, more than all 4 WVW instances combined. In the same area. Also, it’s an MMOFPS, faster-paced than GW2.

Also, planetside1 & 2, savage 1 and 2… there are quite a few games with faster gameplay and higher player density.

Planetside is a shooter… if GW2 eliminated boons, removed most conditions, streamlined damage types, reduced gear modifiers and made most skills single target they could likely handle Planetside numbers with relative ease. There is A LOT more going on in a GW2 battle than Planetside 1/2.

Darkfall I don’t know much about (never played it). Looking at it quickly it seems it too has a pretty simplified combat system more akin to an FPS than a typical skill based MMO. It also falls under the… if it was so good why aren’t more unhappy GW2 people playing it banner.

In both cases these games were designed from the outset to be near solely PvP and every design decision is based around that.

DAOC in it’s prime could handle numbers of all the BL and EB maps combined in one frontier. DAOC had tons of buffs, debuffs, stats and far more skills than GW2. Yet it managed to be able to handle more players and not have an AoE cap, and it’s over a decade old.

And yet we are playing GW2 and not DAOC. I wonder why. Is it just graphics?

I didn’t play DAOC and not a programmer so I’m being silent in this debate over which engine is superior. But I’m really having hard time believing DAOC engine had to deal with anywhere near same amount of work GW2 one is dealing with.

Just looking at YT DAOC videos battles seem to be so less dynamic than GW2. And i’m not talking about number of skills you need to keep track of and use timely, simply the general feeling of fight dynamics as an independent observer.

Drop what again?

You can’t be serious talking about “tiers” nowadays

Dammit, beat me to the topic start.

Anyway, with both Piken and SFR in the same matchup, main battle will be definitely here in this topic. Let it begin!

satkis.7021:

http://media.riemurasia.net/albumit/mmedia/kn/z6s/wugo/383870/1222731817.gif

HEY! That’s me!

Werizzit Ogro? Enough with dramatic pause!

dunnberry.2964:

Yaro Devon has said that the servers wouldn’t be able to hold higher AOE so simple solution upgrade servers,

They also said that they have pretty much what the money can buy hardware-wise. If you in turn would ask me for a source, I could dig up some red posts from forum history but that may take some time so don’t expect quick answer.

If you are talking about their money than I’m sure that I formation is available with their yearly profits reports and such along with over 3 million copies sold within a year

No I mean specifically servers specs which are “crap for modern day tech” according to you.

dunnberry.2964:

Pretty much the solution is anet needs to put in some extra $$ which we know they have and make a major upgrade to their servers which are honestly crap for modern day tech

I’d be interested to see exact specs. Do you have a source or can you elaborate more?

Trolling is exactly what are you doing but seeing a number of your posts, I came to the conclusion that it would be a complete waste of time to try and have a real deliberated, wighted and intelligent discussion with you. If you have black googles on, nothing will help here. kthxbye

King Amadaeus.8619:

The reality is this game (WvW), is in decline
…
…
just go browse matchup threads, and recruiting threads. There are plenty of people recruiting in both

Just a side note – isn’t that kind of contradiction?

Jscull.2514:

Sorry, Anet is lying about their servers. Anyone who believes them probably believes this game won’t die as soon as other games come out with real player vs player.

So we better believe you than Anet.

Got any source?

Everyone knows that AoE cap was introduced due to technical limitations. Trying to shove some “balance” basis under it post-factum is laughable. So the initial design idea was probably exactly that – favor skill over numbers. Now AoE cap being a workaround to engine limitations, it is one of factors that makes zerg domination problem even bigger and harder to solve.

XII.9401:

Skill should be rewarded. Zerging lemmings should be punished and sent back to PVE or they will have to actually get on voice, post scouts..that kinda stuff intelligent people do.

Well, you know…

Game’s motto is “Play The Way You Want”. If you take a look at it from such viewpoint, first question to ask is: Why your way is any better?

These zerging lemmimgs you are referring to may be quite effective in points game if they are determined and do not care about dying.

They would suicide to deny capture or to res lords over and over and wouldn’t care less about the skill level of your shiny elite guild. They would throw bodies at you over and over and over until you just can’t stand constant hour-long pressure. Yes Vizunah, I’m looking at you

Do I like this way of playing? No, god forbid. Do I think my way is better? For me – sure. For them – who am I to impose my views on them considering the game ideology doesn’t favor one over another?