Guild Wars 2

We had this conversation with guild mates a while ago.

The problem with awarding points for PC kills is that it will have catastrophic effect on WvW dynamics.

Basically what you will see is that servers concerned about points first will get even more into defensive position, defending dolyaks with blobs, evading battles, sieging up and upgrading quickly and then sitting on the walls manning piles of ACs. Not that they don’t do that now, but it will be even more dominant behavior.

Those with more open field mentality will starve to death trying to find anything in empty fields.

yesfourme.8906:

Limm.8401:

It is not fair to give the server that happens to hold more tally points a combat disadvantage

It is very fair to give a chance to balance the game a bit more in favor of the losing server.

Why is that fair exactly?

If you’d allow me to bring this analogy, you are basically saying that weaker boxer should get smaller gloves after a couple of rounds, so he hits harder. It is only fair to balance the fight in favor of the losing guy, right?

TheLaughingMan.4320:

Dawdler.8521:

Kincaidia.3192:

250 badges is a superb price point.

In other words when Anet add it, it’ll cost 250 badges AND 50 laurels AND 250 ectos.

You know it.

Anet is hitting rock bottom in their scraping and bowing for their monetization overlords, it will be a gem store item if we see it at all

You didn’t see monetization in full swing if you think Anet is at bottom of that. What are you even talking about? Agressive monetization would leave you with balance-changing items/skills/etc available only via gem store. ANet is nowhere near that. What we have here is mild monetization with only bells and whistles available exclusively in gem store. Well, comfort items at best.

Stormleaf.1769:

Quick, decision time! Which would you rather have?

The ability to reset your WvW skills, or account-bound WXP gain?

Why do we have to choose again?

In PvE you won’t get kind of lag you see on WvW since there’s no PC enemies in PvE. Compute complexity just won’t grow as ridiculously as on WvW.

Shimdroid.2765:

Yaro.3251:

Mordecai.6318:

You have a few too many chromosomes.

I don’t have any idea what it supposed to mean, but it sounds funny

People with additional chromosomes (usually 1) are those affected from down’s syndrome.

Trisomy 21, though most common one, is only a fraction of chromosome anomalies, but I get the idea now.

Mordecai.6318:

You have a few too many chromosomes.

I don’t have any idea what it supposed to mean, but it sounds funny

Dawdler.8521:

Niim.9260:

This is just outright stupid, pretty much all parts of it. In a group you play a role, your gear and your build should reflect that role. What your role is depends on your group, your position in it, and the synergy you are trying to accomplish. This blanket view that everyone needs to stack toughness/vitality and play hammer fail is just a zerglet, brain dead approach to the game that involves rushing in large numbers smashing face into keyboard and ignoring any kind of group synergy.

Synergy?

Synergy is achieved through the use of different classes performing a role better than others, not through diversity in builds.

Synergy is achieved by whatever plays well together in particular circumstances, be it builds, utility skills or weapon skills.

Guardian GS 5 followed by warrior hammer stun (or even by hammer guardian 3/5) is quite a nice combo.

Also, do not underestimate 4 on GS. Total damage it deals considering retal application is huge. And 3 is what gives guardian mobility allowing them among other thing to initiate said combo timely. Blind on 3 is also nice.

2 is what can cause problems for guardians themselves but the damage output is not something to ignore. It is just need to be used with caution and awareness of opponents’ boons

It’s not like you are limited to only one guardian in your warband (well, if that isn’t small scale). Both GS and Hammer guardians are valuable and you better have both in your raid.

Zaknafein.9576:

fairly new to the game, and i really only play melee classes, ive tried the thief and it really just wasnt for me. So i decided upon picking up warrior or guardian. I just dont know which is better for wvwvw? be it dueling, sieging, team fighting, etc. Id be GS guardian. And GS/1h axe, shield warrior. Tips? advice?

It’s hard to recommend one over another since your interests on WvW seem to be so broad. The difference between these is mainly two things:

First, warrior in general is more mobile which makes both chasing and breaking out of fights, a well as navigating through the battlefield easier.

Second, they are quite different in terms of EHP (effective HP). Guardian has relatively small HP pool but can support it with a lot of healing/regen/block abilities while warrior has big HP pool and tends to sustain it with defensive skills like stances, cc/condition reduction etc. Of course builds/stat-builds can differ wildly, but that’s the general idea.

Another thing that I’d caution you against is getting into mentality where you lock yourself down to particular set of weapons. Many weapon sets are useful on WvW depending on situation so it is better if you have a full set of weapons in your backpack and get familiar with them to know their strengths and weaknesses. Same goes for stat-build (gear) and build itself, but that’s more advanced stuff you probably don’t need to bother about from the get go. Just keep that in mind.

Xirin.8593:

Yaro.3251:

Xirin.8593:

Yaro.3251:

VOLKON.1290:

(You of course know what happens when two positive charges get too close…)

No, what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion

Flawed analogy tbh, if that was it. “Two positive charges getting too close”, is quite different from “two or more atomic nuclei collide at very high speed and join to form a new type of atomic nucleus”.

No, it isn’t different. I don’t think you understand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_interaction

Most probably I don’t understand. Particularly what I do not understand is how two positively charged guardians colliding at human running speed would produce anything other than “Oh, pardon me!”. Well, maybe a fart at best.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Zacchary.6183:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Doesn’t the bigger army always win the war?

No in fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Omdurman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_watling_street
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

To name a few.

1) thanks for getting me WikiStuck
2) Omdurman – trained military with rifles vs non-trained with no modern weaps.
watling street – close quarters combat – dont have that here.
won’t even touch the Vietnam thing

But honestly – Not many “upsets” happen in WvW because it is a population based game mode. I hope that gets changed, somehow.

There’s a number of choke and “high ground” points on WvW, and when used correctly, they diminish difference in numbers. But OP and others with same POV probably want to get rid of “strength in numbers” on WvW conceptually (totally). Which is counter-intuitive to say the least.

Xirin.8593:

Yaro.3251:

VOLKON.1290:

(You of course know what happens when two positive charges get too close…)

No, what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion

Flawed analogy tbh, if that was it. “Two positive charges getting too close”, is quite different from “two or more atomic nuclei collide at very high speed and join to form a new type of atomic nucleus”.

VOLKON.1290:

(You of course know what happens when two positive charges get too close…)

No, what?

dargosian.2704:

…to stop zerging.

My suggestion:
Trampled (only comes up when 20 or more allies are within a range of 600 or so.)
- Reduce speed by 15%
- Upon health reaching 0%, downed state is bypassed and the player immediately dies.

What do you guys think?

Make it 2 instead of 20 and I’ll sign it. Would be fair. I mean, we didn’t come to World versus World to fight within armies, right? What a nonsense! Everyone should be forced to small scale, the smaller the better I say!
/sarcasm

McWolfy.5924:

Do you remember the “body block” from gw1 gvgs? Image that in WvW! I want it! a little, but well organized team could stop a whole zombie army in a narrow place .
Image a situation where a too big zerg cant maneuver.
front line, middle line, back line! not just blobs.

If you feel charitable, turn on “Melee assist” setting in your game options. That would be personal body block for you.

Now all is left is to convince all other players to turn it on lol.

Ogre.1750:

Omg i just saw the GD vs Scnd scraps and almost peed my pants, holy ghost, insane rounds. The game evolves, the meta sharpens, i could see it. Incredible technical details, insane lvl… long exhausting rounds that put crews to the test…

Too bad you dont go official, those were without a doubt the highest lvl bouts ive seen… maybe ever. Im featuring the hell out of that if i can get some HD fo-sho!

That’s a hell of a teaser Ogro

Dico.4815:

Actually, most of guardians in NA still playing with healing power, rofl.

Oh really? I’ll make sure to plan my next vacation trip to NA servers to witness this miraculously preserved memorial of ancient past.

Seriously though, that would make a great material for the show – not only talk about and showcase fights themselves but also discuss current raid composition metas, latest build trends, tactical tidbits etc.

sparklevision.8109:

So, for me, GW2 is basically over.

GW2 still has sickest battle mechanics and switching [back] to any other game feels like putting shackles on your hands and feet.

Cactus.2710:

If the issue was purely server capacity I suspect that even ANet would probably have moved to address it by now. More likely, the issue is some combination of:

- raw server capacity
- game engine capability (it’s an old engine and ANet has already admitted that it limits the size of maps)
- the cost and difficulty of rewriting the software that ANet uses to dynamically merge capacity across servers for WvW
- the amount of bandwidth they buy from their ISP

Engine limitation seem to be the determining factor. Accordingly, direct answer to OP question “When are you finally gonna fix skill-lag?” would probably be “never”. There wouldn’t be a silver-bullet fix to lags. What we would see is a gradual improvements to game engine that wouldn’t suddenly make lag go away completely but will make it less and less noticeable. If you scan through several last patch notes, you’d notice couple of them mention improvements made to the engine to address lag problem. Whether these improvements are noticeable is up to discussion, but one cannot say with straight face that nothing is being done.

Last nigh GH was running ~25-30 with like 5 guardians but 7-8 necros. If you complain about guardian meta, you are pretty far behind the actual meta.
I’d argue guardian-heavy meta would be easily countered, all it would take is to use landscape/structures smartly. Or more necros ftw

Who are all you guys on WvW and what did you do to real Piken???

Was ticking 350 at 4am GMT and 250 atm. Not a Piken I know!

:) Just kidding

Cheers, great job pulling night/morning shift guys!

Ins.7139:

bring as many guilds or as many people as you like

Bring where exactly?
I’m not sure GH will be running tonight, but if we do, we might pay you a visit.

GJ as always Ogro, and your natural voice is indeed better

Regarding GD vs ZDs I’ve noticed a couple of things.

First, GD is quicker on regroups and do not do them that often. Quicker not by much, but it is all it takes to apply constant pressure to opponent and keep them on their toes thus forcing them to always be in defensive position.

Second, ZDs seem to stick to old classical raid meta and as a result they don’t apply enough pressure when their train goes through opponent’s train. Obviously I may be wrong here, but it it almost looked like ZDs were just trying to get through GD lines to the next regroup safely, not doing much of a damage in the process.

Oh my, haha…

I predict this match-up going down the GW2 history as a three-way Ultra-Big Ball Blob Rasengan.

GL everyone, keep your chakras full.

Dela.2479:

@Yaro

Because upwards of 10ppl, it feels to zergy. And fighting against 20ppl even with 10 is no fun either, because there is too much AE flying around.
Personal opinion: I just don´t like it.

I understand there may be personal preferences regarding enemy numbers like “too much of enemy AoE around” etc, but isn’t that just more challenge? I mean, one would think that it presents a challenge for personal and team positioning skills that would be fun to take on.

As someone whose opinion I value very high (and who has great skills across the board from 1v1 to leading raids) said, there’s about 10 buttons to press just in right time in this game. That’s not something only a top-notch player can achieve at the decent level, so positioning is at least 50% of the skill in exceptionally dynamic GW2 PvP.

Another thing is that scale brings other unique challenges regarding team build composition, coordination and synergy. That’s all is so fun to try and excel in.

Finally, there’s a case to try and find just what is a minimum number of players in your team that is needed to make it self-sufficient on WvW meaning you woudn’t really care what enemy is throwing at you and even if you wipe, you can say to yourself “we didn’t run away half the map, we fought great andsurvived long enough to take x times more of them with us. That was a great fight even though in the end we’ve lost to those hordes”

Zumy.6318:

Now that you know how I feel in my shoes

Now that you vented, and believe me I know how you feel though I do not run smallscale much, I have a question:

What is it that restricts your team from going ahead and trying to recruit some more members to double in size (if you are 5-7, to, say, 10-15)?

With 15 if your skill level is really what you say it is (no pun, I just never bumped into you you in the field in smallscale so I don’t have a ground to judge), you would be able to take on most of the WvW challenges or at least stand on your own against lot of blobs except hugest ones. And if you are matched up against non-blobbing server or have no blobs around, just split back to two-three of your usual 4-7-man setups.

I honestly don’t get it, is anything more than 7 not fun for you somehow? I mean, presuming all your team mates are at your or higher skill level and you know them and synergize with them well.

Coarr.3286:

Yaro.3251:

“The Slavs: Buka – little evil creature that lives in the closet of a child’s room or under the bed. Can only bee seen by children, and the children are who suffer from it, as Buka likes to attack them at night – grab the legs and drag under the bed or in the closet (its den). Buka is afraid of the light exposure which is fatal to it, and of the adults starting to believe in it, since if they do, they won’t have problems dealing with it.”

best definition ever thx for the nice read!

I knew you would love it!
Cheers

Ogre.1750:

I guess we’ll have to endure. Dont go all tsundere on me Yaro :P

What are you talking about, I was defending OUR RIGHTS while keeping topic up and hot!!!

:)

On a serious note though, amount of the off-topic and not much else is a sign that your showdowns, though great and entertaining to watch, do not provoke much of follow-up discussion. Something to think about for the show going forward.

Btw I didn’t get your “tsundere” reference. Is that a good thing or bad?

I’m not sure if I will be comfortable talking about GvG landscape and having GvG with another guild anymore if this comes through.

problematic.9623:

it was a waste of time

As if all MMOs and their forums aren’t.

But I beg to differ! I had fun. Some. I guess…

D’aww, now I’m bored again

Achilles.2197:

lmao. That is the worst possible example of statistics. 2007-2010 there were over 1000 guilds on the ladder for GW1 GvG. Also, just because 8 people played for a guild in one match does not mean that was the guild’s size nor the number of core players for that guild. 319 guilds? That’s how many there are in the post-GW2 launch ladder. Don’t confuse the numbers of a game that’s fallen from it’s prime with a game that’s supposed to be peaking.

That’s exactly what’s wrong with the mentality behind “GW2 GvG.” You people seem to think it can’t be counted as true Guild vs Guild unless you can zerg it. Aha

Yeah, that was kinda off, but I didn’t rush to correct Marty leaving the pleasure to you.

What you still fail to grasp is that there’s no “true” GvG as the term is too generic. It doesn’t reflect any characteristics other that one guild competing with other guild(s).

“The Slavs: Buka – little evil creature that lives in the closet of a child’s room or under the bed. Can only bee seen by children, and the children are who suffer from it, as Buka likes to attack them at night – grab the legs and drag under the bed or in the closet (its den). Buka is afraid of the light exposure which is fatal to it, and of the adults starting to believe in it, since if they do, they won’t have problems dealing with it.”

That’s exactly what I mean when I say you are emotionally attached to the term. I don’t really care how anything was/is called in GW1. Furthermore, GW2 “GvG” is unofficial, both the term and game mode. It is not some specific name that would be hard to come up with, just a generic term. When one guild fight another guild, how would you call it?

It’s like SC fan would come here and start saying that he’s offended by the use of “zerg” term in MMOs. “It’s not a huge group of players, it is an alien race ffs!”

Did you create zerg? No. Blizzard did. For what? For SC series.

P.S. Oh my, Achilles – looks like I’ve found a new pet peeve for you:
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Guild_Wars
That’s an outrage!

Achilles.2197:

Yaro.3251:

Achilles.2197:

Yaro.3251:

Achilles.2197:

I still find it hilarious that this is called GvG

For someone with GW1 background, sure that must sound weird. For those who didn’t play GW1, there’s no problem, it fits quite well.

Pesonally, I find GvG term even less fitting for corresponding GW1 activity than for what we call GvG in GW2. But that’s just me.

If you find it less fitting for GW1 GvG you are sadly misinformed. In GW2 it is simply a deathmatch with no counterplay, just fotm spamming.

I fail to see how particular mode of the match, be it TDM or CTF, makes setup more “GvG” title worthy or less. For me it is irrelevant to the term.

Well, most importantly, GW1 had actual GvG with Guild vs Guild tournaments, hundreds of guilds participating, Guild Halls, and hundreds of builds and well known strategies strictly for GvG.

If nothing else, I feel it’s a huge insult to the hundreds (thousands?) of players who ran real Guild vs Guild.

I understand you are apparently too emotionally attached to the term for objective discussion.

For me game mode that is worthy of the title would be something that allowed a guild to dispatch most of its forces to the same battlefield and would require strategic and tactical cooperation across the whole guild. So anyone taking part in this activity would feel like they are actually fighting right here and now for the guild, as part of the guild and with the guild.

Nether GW1 nor GW2 quite qualify for that, but in my opinion GW2 unofficial “GvG” thing comes closer purely due to numbers involved in each fight. Though it lacks structure, side objectives and complex evolution of competition over time.

I don’t have huge experience with different MMOs but the one I was playing before GW2 came pretty close to it with weekly battles for “resource islands” owned by guilds on a map that had 24 players limit per team per island and number of objectives that each team was either defending or capturing depending on wether guild is attacking another guild’s island or defending their own. It also usually required to dispatch at least two raids to different islands simultaneously. And wasn’t really limited in the number of raids you can dispatch, your guild capacity and resources was the only limit.

And man if it was exciting, strategically deep and addictive. It made guild competitions so much distinct and tense, at the same time making guilds’ strength and cohesion as a whole so much important.

Thats actual GvG. 8vs8? Sorry, no.

Achilles.2197:

Yaro.3251:

Achilles.2197:

I still find it hilarious that this is called GvG

For someone with GW1 background, sure that must sound weird. For those who didn’t play GW1, there’s no problem, it fits quite well.

Pesonally, I find GvG term even less fitting for corresponding GW1 activity than for what we call GvG in GW2. But that’s just me.

If you find it less fitting for GW1 GvG you are sadly misinformed. In GW2 it is simply a deathmatch with no counterplay, just fotm spamming.

I fail to see how particular mode of the match, be it TDM or CTF, makes setup more “GvG” title worthy or less. For me it is irrelevant to the term.

Achilles.2197:

I still find it hilarious that this is called GvG

For someone with GW1 background, sure that must sound weird. For those who didn’t play GW1, there’s no problem, it fits quite well.

Pesonally, I find GvG term even less fitting for corresponding GW1 activity than for what we call GvG in GW2. But that’s just me.

Zumy.6318:

If you dont get the naked point, then because you dont want to.

Or I’m just dumb. Or the point is invalid.
In any case it doesn’t mean you couldn’t try and explain it again.

Zumy.6318:

Pretty easy: what you do and how you actually do it doesnt really matter, if you lemming around.

And this should be somehow reinforced by going “naked”? I thought that should prove opposite. If they would restrict themselves to autoattack though and still wipe everything around them with same ease, that in my book would be definite proof.

Zumy.6318:

That those ppl create a pseudocpmpetitive zergfest for 50 ppl and call it GVG to act as if there was any skillbased factor to their game seems grotesque and ridiculous to me.

I’m sure you are talking from personal GvG experience. Because if not, I’d refrain from such unconditionally certain statements.

In this very case, as a roamer frustrated by getting chased all over the map by huge zergs of bad players, I honestly felt offended by the fact of seeing other smallscalers being overrun by a naked blob that would not stop chasing.

If smallscalers get into position of being chased by zerg all over the map, I’d say they are failing their objective from the get go. What is your businesses as a solo/smallscale roamer to get into the way of whole opposing army?

Zumy.6318:

You roaming naked was the prove to what everybody already knows but most people are denying.
Roaming in a ball does not require gear, stats, armour or any skill if you stick together, buff/debuff with guardians and outnumber your opponents.

All it proved is that guys got bored in absence of challenge and someone brought up the idea they saw on Youtube.

They weren’t probably naked per se, all it takes to appear naked is to unequip 3 gear items losing in total 3 runes and about 490 stat points.

It is common knowledge that in general personal skill requirement scales down as group numbers scale up, so you didn’t say anything new here.

But it is also true that you cannot compare solo/small scale and raid skill sets directly as they are different though intersecting. Requirements also depend heavily on who exactly is your opponent. Sure you can run “naked” raid against scattered bunch of random players. When numbers and organization are close to equal though, that’s where difference in personal skill kicks in.

So while your premise is down the correct path, your conclusions are unnecessarily extreme. I wonder why.

P.S. Come to think of it, I’not quite sure I even understand how did you managed to attach “skill” to your “naked” argument.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Sorry GH and GG I want to fight your mixed zerg but I just had about 10-12 people on me just now.

Yeh, we tried to find good fights all night, but all these kitten restarts seem to have killed most of action tonight. Even when we joined Kodash BL with 13 GH and friendlies, it was too crowdy in few spots the action was at. Maybe later

To be fair we had a couple of nice clashes at Bay NE, but that was it for like whole night. Sigh.

Cottage Pie.6215:

indefatiguable Deso noctural ninjas

Wow, that’s a show title right there

akjb.8372:

I thought Piken would be a challenge, how wrong I was. Hope we never have to play you guys again, you need to build up your playerbase; maybe then you’ll have a decent score.
Good luck with your server building.

Aww how nice of you

Looking at http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/15/ though, I’ve got bad news for you: If you was hoping for real challenge in 4am-12am window, you are probably on wrong server. You shoulda try NA ones. Or, you know, come out on EU prime-time, we’ll give you a challenge all right.

Why would we need something else if our evolution is ever-green and we’ve got matched up with T1-2 servers that we crush when we are not asleep/not working anyway? Personally, I’m fine with where we are atm.

Magnetron.5823:

they are slowly turning me into a PVE player because i like that more nowadays :P

Oh noes Magnetron, Not you! Did risen quaggan bite you recently?..

I’m sure https://en.support.guildwars2.com/ will be more than happy to accept your report.

“LOL piken” however says more about you, tying to create drama/trolling by means of generalization, than about anybody on the other side of the fence.

There’s nothing wrong with farming anything. If you suspect them botting though, that would qualify as offense.

Anyway, the place to go with all your complaints is https://en.support.guildwars2.com/

Grotesque.6479:

our fellow enemies

That’s an oxymoron of the day!

There’s no enemies, there’s opponents, since it is a game.

As a side note, no one in this game can act on behalf or represent whole server. As a consequence, there’s no reason to apologize for anything you don’t have control over. It’s like, get some skin, will ya. Maybe they are RPing a vile character. It is all still a game.

Personally, the only thing that makes me mad is dance animations themselves that are just ugh.

Such an unusual thread. So nice and civilized. So much of almost condescending talk on Piken part that is being politely ignored by Deso.

And probably more compliments to [GH] than in the rest of the forum over all its history. I don’t even know how to feel about it… Flattered?

Regarding Deso being not the same as before, duuuh…
IRON, VoTF, KAZ/BuLL, FG, DsD, GH, and that’s just to name a few – all formerly Deso guilds (though afaik there’s still IRON on Deso but you know what I mean).

Guys over there are doing great job at keeping Deso where it is rating-wise.

Thank you. Although we seem to be lacking in scouting/cleanup departments so we keep losing/flipping Bay and Briar over and over…

Good luck everyone this week and by that I mean let us all find whatever is most of fun for us on WvW.

The merits of victory is exactly what am I talking about. What is it in finishing first in particular matchup when the system is randomized so match-up is probably unbalanced from the get go?

I’m not talking about standing still doing nothing because of it, I’m talking about the value of placement at the end of match-up. What evolution shows is that Piken, considering difference in ranking with JS and BB, was doing kitten good this week as opposed to how it should have been doing if rankings were a solid representation of server strength.

Dadnir.5038:

Do JS really feel like a Very High pop server?

We don’t have statistics regarding “WvW pop” and “server pop” is pretty useless in general on any side of WvW argument.

Barrigon.8965:

1k only difference between Piken and Jade, will you resign yourselves to that Piken? C’mon one last push

Is there a point really in finishing at particular place in a match-up? What I was always looking at after matchup system changed was “New rating” and/or “Evolution” columns. We are in the black there.

Thank you Disidentes [DsD] for GvG tonight!

At last we’ve got GvG action we were trying to get going for several weeks.

And sorry for what happened during first fight, It wasn’t really anything that was targeted against you, someone just decided to “protest” us ignoring the schedule. Which is true and I take full responsibility here, but that kind of reaction was totally uncalled for.