Guild Wars 2

Furienify.5738:

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Andele.1306:

BiP+WoP give you vigor.

Fair point well made and easily overlooked.

Other professions get perma vigor. Necro’s can get a few seconds of vigor every 60s by burning 2 utility CDs, but yes. There is that source of vigor too.

Not a fair representation. Whenever a bleed or I think a chill is cleansed off via Well of Power, it’s converted to around 10 seconds of Vigour regardless of the condition stack’s duration or magnitude.

So you can just as easily stand in, say, Caltrops or a Freezing Field, drop your well, and build up enough vigour to last you the rest of the fight. Won’t work against every class, but it’s still pretty solid. I figure Necromancers would be a bit overpowered with vigour available to the extent it is on Guardians/Rangers/Elementalists/Mesmers.

Why? Guardians and rangers and eles are way more bunker-able than the necro ever will, even if he gets vigor.

Cannot even log in. It’s absurd.

Visionary.5681:

My biggest gripe with DS is, its a ‘class defining ability’, that’s massively spec dependent. I originally ran power builds and I used to think, ’ I don’t get all this moaning about DS its awesome to soak damage and deal ranged damage. The I tried running a hybrid build, or Condition build , my access to LF generation is terrible in a 1v1 fight. Its almost impossible to use it for soaking any damage, as I need what little LF I can generate to cast doom.

This is why it doesn’t function properly as a replacement for access to stability and vigor. Its like when people say ‘necro don’t need decent uptime to protection, they have DS’ . DS can only be used as a replacement for Protection, if you spec deeply into it.

They just need to get LF generation for DS closer to mainhand dagger and staff with marks trait.

Our stun breakers also need to drop in cooldown significantly.

Make Dark Pact a targeted area teleport with chill and bleeding. The slow projectile is so easy to dodge.

Yeah, purely for 1v1, flesh golem is superior, but plague is nice for tanking damage. That fight with the thief he made a grave mistake while running away while you were at, what, 6k hp left ON plague form? He could have won if he kept attacking you since plague has no offensive momentum.

I also would prefer to replace epidemic with a well, especially suffering since it does significant damage to whoever stands in it, if not corruption for the extra boon removal. Have you tried blood is power instead of epidemic? It seems like a nice duration 10 stacks of might might also help your 1v1 experience.

What I do see from your opponents is that they have the bad habit of closing distance. If the warrior had stayed on a rifle he could have probably outnuked you.

Seriously, I could put up with another few months of no change to wimpy axe autoattack or making dagger cleave like other melee weapons if at least we got a minor trait that gives vigor on crit or when hit for a % of our health.

It’s just terrible coming from mesmers and rangers and eles and guardians to a class with so few dodges that needs to facetank damage yet doesn’t have the spike damage or enough mitigation skills to manage the kind of raw damage existing in-game.

Chopps.5047:

jkctmc.8754:

Chopps.5047:

jkctmc.8754:

Chopps.5047:

Part of the problem with solo’ing lupi is how much effort it is jk. Seriously, you basically need a party to help you get there and that’s asking a lot. The last way to solo your way there that I knew of was nerfed away after the portal gun nerf. After that, expect to spend 12 hours practicing or longer. Strife025 mentions practicing for 11 hours before feeling like he was good at it. 11 hours of practice doesn’t mean warrior is sooo good I don’t think, rather, it means Strife or (insert soloist’s name here) isn’t just playing the ultimate of professions or whatever you might believe—they’re well practiced.

Edit: fixed typo

You’re the PvE Ranger, so if you thought you could do it, you would. If nothing more than to be able to say; “in your face”. The fact you havn’t tried it speaks volumes. Rangers in my guild who have tried, and said it isn’t possible, and our Necromancer got pretty darn close. You can’t keep using that excuse.

My guildmates are waiting for the why, to their answer.

Did they practice for a dozen hours like strife025 claimed it took him? Not tk take anything away from strife, he’s a heck of a player. Have warriors in your guild put in the time to practice that and then do it?

The necromancer has put in roughly 12 hours, the Rangers gave up after 10. The Warriors see no need to do it since it has been proven a Warrior can do it. Our Mesmers have put in roughly 8 hours, but they’re not sure it is possible with the Mesmer either, and are losing interest. Our Guardians when asked, say; No, just no. Our guild leader has offered 1000g to the first class besides a Warrior who can do it.

You’re missing the point though, like usual.

A thousand gold you say? And you feel this challenge is skill independent? Interesting. Does anyone else feel like chiming in on this? Are you aware both theives and mesmers have demonstrated solos of Lupi and the videos are on youtube?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Giganticus-Lupicus-mesmer-solo

If it says bad link try copy/paste, hope that link works :p

1000 gold you say? Someone in your guild ought to practice and collect that bounty. Can I join your guild?

It’s worth mentioning both mesmer and thief took significantly longer to do so.

Even more for the guardian who also showed how to do it (he used scepter, not melee).

Lupicus is fairly doable solo if you have ither a blink, immunities, or stability you can cycle in between his domes. Otherwise you need swiftness/speed increase and leaps to kite him.

The problem I’d see with the ranger solo is the lack of stability (you only have it on a long cd elite), and that they made the new lupicus immune to snares so the ranger can’t kite at pahse 3 so lupi won’t cast the dome on him. Granted, I think if you stay close enough to lupi he doesn’t cast the dome?

Either way, it would easily take a ranger about double or triple the clear time of a warrior or thief, and still considerably more than a mesmer.

The ranger has just terrible damage even when the pet can stay alive, because the highest numbers you’ll see on any ranger ability is a 17k rapid fire channel while other GC classes can do much more than that consistently than the ranger can+his pet. Most pets with 30 points at BM do around 8-9k crits in the best of circumstances having to use 60-120 second cooldowns, while classes like the mesmer and thief and warrior can do similar or larger bursts of damage far more consistently and their sustained matches or exceeds the ranger’s.

Despite that I still think the ranger is not as bad off as the necro. At least the ranger is wanted in fractals for search and rescue on jade maw. Nobody wants a necro for anything.

Krag.6210:

I hope they remake the other dungeons fast, it’s a big part of the game.
Where are the guys who made FotM? Arah?

FotM doesn’r devalue damage. In fact, if yuou don’t have damage in grawl shaman, you wipe. If you don’t have damage on mossman, it turns into a 30 minute fight between all his stealthing at higher levels. Dredge fractals will take forever.

It just so happens that there are so many hardhitting ranged mobs that reflection comes in very handy in fractals, alongside extra mitigation from guardians.

Guardians aren’t by any means a low damage class, however. Not close to warriors, sure, but everyone is ridiculed by warriors on the damage department outside maybe thieves on single target.

D/D is doable on every boss. I’ve done fractal 50+ on a full berserker d/d ele, including shaman.

D/D is a very self sufficient weapon and you don’t even need to be in melee range to hit with it since its range is actually longer than melee.

Scepter just has garbage sustained. Good burst, granted, but the difference in burst vs. d/d is small, d/d burst is easier to land on moving targets, and D/D/ sustained is incredibly better.

Scepter autoattacks just need hefty buffing. Dragon Tooth and Shatterstone have their activation reduced by half and Shatterstone needs to do more damage, as should water trident.

Durzlla.6295:

Yeah i’m not gonna lie landing maul is a kitten, the thing has what may be THE MOST telegraphed attack on a player… then again in a team fight it becomes a lot better because you force the enemy team to either eat the maul, eat another teammates big hitter, or waste the dodges they don’t have because they keep dodging short CD big hitters…

That being said, if you go with a sword, GS, or axe/axe build you don’t need condi damage (still don’t think you should ever need condi damage) so you could always try playing around with something more like that if you haven’t already? I know Axe/Axe is actually becoming a lot more popular in tPvP from what i’ve seen (other than trap rangers ofc).

PS: More popular = I’ve actually -seen- several rangers running axe/axe instead of shortbow + traps.

It could be worse. Maul could be Fire Grab, which is even buggier and has many times more the cooldown lol

Jemmi.6058:

Hmmm well thank you for saying I suck :P

I also said that I would bring a thief into my group; however, I do not suggest making one with dungeons as your end goal. I did and I regretted it.

My Mesmer easily does more damage than my ele and my ele more than my Thief. That is not to say my Thief does not damage, it just does less damage in dungeons. That is primarily because melee’ing often results in death (for me), so I have to spend a lot of time ranged and their ranged are weak from my experience. In the open world, my thief does the most damage.

Granted maybe I needed a better build, or better gear. It’s also been awhile since I had my thief as my main character. There have been many changes and I am also a better player now.

Melee thief is like playing my berserker dd ele. You just need to know your build and when to dodge to make it work. I do 48+ lv fractals on a dd ele with 12k hp in full berserker just fine, and it can be done with thieves because I’ve run several who just melee all the time. Sword mainhand thieves are great for pve.

KensaiZen.3740:

Now here is the thing that has been bugging me. People who test damage on dummies and calculate the DPS output of the class and compare it against another class. This is not actually accurate and the result will not actually show you the DPS of te class in a “Live” situation

One thing you have to consider is that warriors or thieves are melee classes. This means that they will spend quite a bit of their time dodging and rolling and moving weaving their way in and out of AoE’s. This reduces the amount of actual DPS. The tests people do are mainly against unmoving targets that do not hit back. It is possible to get extremely high numbers if you stand and attack something for 30 seconds however, it is a very rare occassion where you will be able to do such thing in the actual game itself.

The Ranger is equipped with very good ranged weapons. This allows them to maintain max and still keep the damage flowing. Using a LB with extended range, the ranger is completely clear from the combat area. The damage that is done from rangers is a constant that does not stop. Both bows allow for good consistent damage at any range.

I’ve been running dungeons constantly with the Ranger and have found this class to be amazingly versatile and by simply switching utilities for the right encounter (am I going to be a turret or do I need to kite) The speed does not decrease.

Even in WvW I don’t know why people QQ about the Ranger. Even against thieves we have utilities that allow us to have the advantage (protect me and SoS means thier bursts do no damage to you) The only down side I see is people speccing as a glass cannon then moan when they die so easily.

For those who do not believe, I will do a video soon. I am relatively new to the Ranger class and Im not that great a player either, but if someone like me can do it…. anyoe can. It’s not all about damage.

…. Why are they “melee” classes? This is the most ignorant thing I’ve heard in a while. Melee is always better damage than range damage. Always. There’s a reason why speed runs stack on melee builds.

In a situation where you’re absolutely forced to range warriors have a rifle and thieves shortbow or pistol/pistol.

Shadow refuge/smoke powder rez, projectile destruction/blind field, dagger storm, and the best DPS after warrior. Why would you not bring one again?

Jemmi.6058:

Personally I do not mind bringing Thieves in my group.

However, I have played one as my first primary character, and I do not recommend them for dungeons. It mostly depends on your playstyle, but I don’t like thieves ranged. I use D/D, and you can die very fast in dungeons running up melee. I will often swap between shortbow and D/D in dungeons, use steal to get up close – use Death Blossom a few times, then dodge roll back and swap to bow.

I would say after using an Ele and Mesmer that both easily outshine the Thief in damage and support performance in dungeons. The only one thing my thief is superior at is reviving allies with their AoE stealth.

If a mesmer or ele are outdamaging a thief, the thief sucks. Thief has better burst, and considerably better sustained with much stronger autoattacks than both mesmer and ele.

Prysin.8542:

Sebrent.3625:

I’m pretty confident a Guardian could as well.

only if using the signed that grants burning on crit in addition to insanely high crit chance.

if not, yes the burning would last for a long time, but not “permanently”

Considering a guardian would never run alone and the other standard classes in pve are mesmer, warrior, and elementalist, keeping burning up at 100% uptime is no issue.

Plus, it’s pretty sad if a guardian with all their abundance of utility and greatsword damage could also happen to keep up burning 100%.

Recycle.5493:

Zenith.7301:

Durzlla.6295:

@Zenith, oh, I don’t know how the ICD works? Please tell me more about how I don’t understand such a simple system!!

PS: it’s per player bro, not spirit.

Group effect, duh. The problem is how you exaggerate the ffect of a 1 sec burn proc on a 10 sec ICD.

I’m glad you+your hyenas can stack 4 secs of burning every 10 seconds. Too bad a condi engineer can do that even better and more reliably.

It actually gives 3-second burn, with the effective proc of up to 5 party members, resulting in a 15-second burn with a 10 second internal cool down. If the spirit can be kept alive for the whole duration of a fight, it could provide perma-burn on 1 target.

Is the value of the burn renewed by the player with the highest condition damage, or does the value change to a lower one if someone with no condition damage proc it. And without focusing a target, what’s the actual uptime of the burning? 3/10 seconds, assuming perfectly timed procs?

You don’t need 5 people to keep something permaburned. An elementalist and a guardian can pretty much keep a target burning as well, and an engineer should be able to as well.

Durzlla.6295:

@Zenith, oh, I don’t know how the ICD works? Please tell me more about how I don’t understand such a simple system!!

PS: it’s per player bro, not spirit.

Group effect, duh. The problem is how you exaggerate the ffect of a 1 sec burn proc on a 10 sec ICD.

I’m glad you+your hyenas can stack 4 secs of burning every 10 seconds. Too bad a condi engineer can do that even better and more reliably.

P.S. People, you could give spirits the toughness of a full pvt or cleric guardian with tough/vit traitlines and they will still die quickly. Lupicus aoe bombs and lv40+ fractal aoe is not something high toughness units live through. You HAVE TO dodge them. And minions/pets can’t dodge and they don’t have vigor to dodge as often if they got a standard dodge.

The main form of mitigation in pve is dodging and reflection. Minions/pets have neither, so they die. Nothing short of passive resistance/mitigation of damage+regen will keep up with the amount of aoe sprayed in pve and wvw.

DanH.5879:

dude, i do not care about your stupid WVW or PvP, i want to be useful in PvE parties ! and not to be kicked like trash, did you guys wonder why all parties want 1-2 guardians, 2-3 warriors, and a mesmer ???
sure eles are ok-ish too 1 in them ..maximum 2.
the rest can eat a carrot i guess…
continuous nerfs every patch for the thief class that also affects pve, this is the way to kill the class where it already doesn’t shine, congratulations

one of the reasons i roll a guardian now :P

p.s. the venom aura ring, and the caltrops/uncatchable appearing on the ground was a great way not to affect pve, basilisk buff apeparing/shadowstep ring etc.

however i think they missed the red/combat ring for Infiltrator’s Strike (sword 2)…
and shortbow 5

Thief is more wanted than even a guardian on the dredge fractal, and on grawl fractal their dagger storm is amazing. Thief is great in PvE — shadow refuge is the best rezzing skill in the game. You can run full damage and projectile destruction, or you can run venom share and chain interrupt bosses.

Thieves are even taken to cof p1 farm runs. I don’t know what you’re talking about when you say thief is weak in PvE. If you are comparing against warriors, everyone in PvE is useless for speed runs compared to a warrior, because warriors do more damage than everyone else, including the thief, while having high base HP and armor to aafford to run berserker gear more safely.

I think if they removed the chain knockdowns people would do the content more. Yes, it’s avoidable when you are dealing with a target or two. Not so much when you need to dodge 3-4 gravelings or deal with that annoying p3 boss chain knocking your kitten back with autoattacks.

I’ve ran a spirit build with HP trait on a dungeon as simple as AC and the spirits still die in record time. Minions are just garbage in the current state of the game because they don’t have WoW’s aoe avoidance mechanic giving them AoE damage reduction or healing from the master’s damage.

Mobs in dungeons and WvW damage is specifically designed to make players with about as much as 30k HP to dodge or risk death. AI that cannot dodge out of such amount of damage is going to die unless they have robust passive mitigation and regeneration mechanisms.

On Durzilla’s guide I stated my skepticism about his understanding of ICD’s. I guess I was correct.

More importantly, I’ve found that spirits unbound kills your pets more often than not because planting them in a safe spotworks more even though it comes at the cost of not gaining their benefit often because their range is small such as a fight like Lupicus where you need to stay mobile you may walk out of their range.

Spirits Unbound as a ranger that wishes to use melee is outright sabotage of your spirits. And it’s a shame because any efficient group will want to maximize their melee uptime as not only is melee perfectly doable at high to permanent uptimes in most encounters, but it cleaves baseline for aoe damage on autoattack (your biggest source of sustained damage) and special skills and it does significantly more damage than ranged attacks.

Spirits should see their ICD reduced to 5 seconds for spvp and outright removed for the PvE aspect of the game. Alongside with survivability increases. Storm Spirit’s proc needs to be changed because swiftness is just weak in combat. A second of quickness or triggering vulnerability/blind on an opponent would be more appropriate.

Terkov.4138:

Zenith.7301:

Terkov.4138:

Aoe dmg recuction wouldn’t work in WvW anyway.
All piercing ranged skills, most melee swings – nearly all attacks are AoE in some way, so there are 2 options:
a) Give pet reduced dmg from everything that hits more than 1 target = pets totally OP, coz noone can actually kill them.
b) Limit reduction to ground targetted AoE = no real effect in WvW, as pets still would die from running in crossfire.

Idk about dungs. I use ranged pets there and they can survive more than some players… :P

And why should you be able to kill pets to begin with, when they are the built in portion of the ranger’s damage? So if a warrior takes a certain amount of damage, should he lose 30-40% of his damage for 45 seconds?

Pets NEED to melee, unless you use ranged pets, whose projectiles are slow and damage is really bad.

Warrior does 100% of dmg or 0% of dmg – depending if he can attack or is forced to kite/dodge. Thanks to pet, ranger can do part of his dmg nearly always (in theory).
Devouers dmg bad? If you compare everything to cats or birds, then gl.

It’s called a rifle. Use it.

And of course devourer damage is bad. It’s autoattacks with full 30 BM amount to 800 damage every other second. On a slower projectile than bullets or ranger arrows.

Varonth.5830:

Zenith.7301:

Empiren.6401:

The main problem with blurred frenzy is that it shouldn’t give invulnerabilty. That doesn’t even make sense. Why not give 100b invulnerability? Same scenario.
——————-

Mesmers have i believe the highest burst now(maybe thief beats them), but they can still down you faster than you can them. Put that with stealth/clones and stuns. DEAD

100b does WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more damage than Blurred Frenzy. That’s why. Mesmers also have light armor and less HP. Obviously classes with less passive absorption/mitigation need more active avoidance tools.

If you nerf Deceptive Evasion I think most people’s complaints about mesmer would vanish because the current issue is how quickly mesmer’s can keep putting clones up.

Actually the pure DPS of blurred frenzy and 100b is close to equal. It is just that blurred frenzy only last 2s.
Also, most mesmers not only use Blurred Frenzy but shatter on top of that.
If shatter had a minor casttime, they actually would have to plan when to use it, and it should fail.
Now: Immobilize + Teleport to target, and if that worked, Blurred Frenzy + Shatter
With like 0.5s casttime on shatters:

• Immobilize + Teleport to target, to cast of shatter then blurred frenzy. Possiblity of immo running out before everything went through
• Press shatter, then immobilize + teleport, then blurred frenzy. Possibility of not hitting with your shatter

And yes deceptive evasion is a bit too strong at the moment, especially combined with the 5 point minor you get on top of that, which gives you perma vigor (in most cases).
An internal cooldown maybe, of 5~10s?

Everyone says, that mesmers aren’t hard to fight if you know what they are doing, but with my mesmer as my first character I disagree. It doesn’t matter if my enemy knows who I am, and where my clones are. I won’t mind, if my clones would all just look like phantasms. They still provide alot of passive support for me and my team. They absorb AoE damage, they block projectiles. My make targeting stupidly hard, and as I often have that trait in, they provide alot of cripple just because they die to aoe, a projectile or just because I replace it (automatically by dodging).
On top of that they provide a constant stream of shortlived conditions to cover my long conditions.
Alot of these things aren’t things that are clearly visible, but they happen… all the time.

That on it’s own, yes that wouldn’t be so bad.
But on top of that I get quite some uptime on invul, and one of the most rediculous escape skills ingame… phase retreat.

And to be honest, it isn’t fun to fight against a mesmer, and that in my opinion is the most important aspect. You should have fun playing a game. There are certain classes in this game, which just aren’t fun to fight against.

100b has a 6 sec cd. You say shatter, the warrior’s got whirling attack, which does a ton of damage as well, as well as much higher autoattack damage, especially on his axe/shield set.

It’s very easy to dodge an illusionary leap>shatter combo. It’s about as obvious as an Updraft>Burning Speed.

The only problem is the game format — conquest. If you were allowed to go range, it’s pretty easy for someone to range down a shatter mesmer; they have no mobility and the moment somebody starts kiting you, you lose. P/D thieves eat mesmers in WvW on a daily basis, as do rangers and scepter eles. Just be beyond 600 range and the mesmer can’t do a thing since most mesmers runs staff and staff does crap for ranged damage.

Conquest has just skewed which classes and builds are viable. And with nerfed haste, the moment you remove portal, mesmer goes away in favor of other classes. It’s a very fine line between viable and non-viable.

Nobody complains about guardians because guardians aren’t 1v1 kings, which is what most people value egotistically. But guardians are absolutely broken in larger group engagements. The group stability, boons, reflection are all stupidly strong and a backbone of WvW groups. Make a fight get 3v3, and suddenly the group with a guardian has a considerable advantage against the group without one.

Eles in wvw are very good roamers, but in WvW larger group fights, with the amount of CC going on and the ele’s stability on a 90 sec cd means he’s dead very quick, especially if there’s a couple of Muddy Terrains thrown in for rooting. The ele is reliant like the thief on mobility to survive, so root hurts them a lot.

And guess what? Those immortal eles on wvw making it through zerg fights? They tickle. They win through attrition on 1v1, but they are no threat in large group engagements where water fields are constantly blasted and people can outheal their low damage.

Empiren.6401:

The main problem with blurred frenzy is that it shouldn’t give invulnerabilty. That doesn’t even make sense. Why not give 100b invulnerability? Same scenario.
——————-

Mesmers have i believe the highest burst now(maybe thief beats them), but they can still down you faster than you can them. Put that with stealth/clones and stuns. DEAD

100b does WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more damage than Blurred Frenzy. That’s why. Mesmers also have light armor and less HP. Obviously classes with less passive absorption/mitigation need more active avoidance tools.

If you nerf Deceptive Evasion I think most people’s complaints about mesmer would vanish because the current issue is how quickly mesmer’s can keep putting clones up.

Guardian, Warrior, Elementalist, Mesmer. All of these classes either have ample reflection or offhealing to help mitigate damage. And these classes do pretty good damage (warrior way more than everybody else) on top of their robust support skills.

Despite what Account says, you try a fractal 48 grawl shaman without a guardian or mesmer or ele or thief or warrior. Especially the guardian.

Spirit shield+wall of reflection+ sanctuary/Hold The Line is incredible group mitigation skills. The group pull with greatsword will make handling of lava elementals so much easier. Drop a spirit shield, and pull the elementals into your protective bubble while the group inside it aoe bombs them down.

You really can’t compared necro or engineer or especially ranger to these other classes. The engineer may be able to do some damage, but his utility is deficient if he doesn’t bring elixir gun, which still doesn’t compare to a guardian or water attunement ele’s heals.

Guardian in particular can carry a group because it has so many tools to reduce damage on your group and CC groups of opponents. Warriors on the other hand can carry the group by making the boss fight much shorter and reducing the time window for failure. They can kill threatening mobs much faster than anybody else so the group doesn’t take massive damage.

warblah.6543:

it’s actually a good deal if you exchange the bb for obsidian shard, meanwhile still maintain the chance to loot a skin from chest

Karma rains like candy now, and fractal relics supplement that. If you do your daily/monthly, karma should never be an issue.

Terkov.4138:

Aoe dmg recuction wouldn’t work in WvW anyway.
All piercing ranged skills, most melee swings – nearly all attacks are AoE in some way, so there are 2 options:
a) Give pet reduced dmg from everything that hits more than 1 target = pets totally OP, coz noone can actually kill them.
b) Limit reduction to ground targetted AoE = no real effect in WvW, as pets still would die from running in crossfire.

Idk about dungs. I use ranged pets there and they can survive more than some players… :P

And why should you be able to kill pets to begin with, when they are the built in portion of the ranger’s damage? So if a warrior takes a certain amount of damage, should he lose 30-40% of his damage for 45 seconds?

Pets NEED to melee, unless you use ranged pets, whose projectiles are slow and damage is really bad.

Molonlabe.3761:

It sucks to be ANet.

People will complain when there is no option.
People still complain when there are options.
People continue to complain when these options are easier/harder than they expect.

Lots of people believe that it should take “skills” to acquire certainly equipment/skin. However, the very same people often forget that it probably takes more skill to make “gold” (or, rather, real money in real life) in game.

Of course, one can always say “it is easy to make gold in GW2”, “TP trading is always easy” on an internet forum…

Then again, if that’s the case, wouldn’t you have your skins (or any things else, really) already?? If making gold is so easy, you wouldn’t be here complaining in the first place.

If, just a big if, someone makes $200 dollars an hour in real life, will it make sense for him to farm CoF for “your mighty easy 10g” an hour? Or use “the mighty skill” to farm the box for many hours?

laugh

Considering I’m halfway to my second legendary and already have my wanted super skin, this is a discussion about what an unpleasant experience it has been to discover that playing market/farmer is a more profitable way to play the game.

But feel free to continue your dismissive brown-nosing. Cute “reasonable cynics” are cute.

It’s this simple. Getting my legendary was nowhere near as fun as I expected it to be, and getting the skins wasn’t either. Because you make an activity that’s not fun for me the most efficient way to achieve these things. It’s simple — do what I like and gain things at a glacial pace, or bite the bullet and gain what I want at an actually reasonable rate.

KyoHanakaze.8145:

OR!
I can spend those two hours doing content that I enjoy,
get my skin for free,
AND run the chance of getting a skin that I can sell at the same time.

Good for you. You’re not everyone. Repeating the content on 6 alts to get close to enough tokens for one skin is not what some call enjoyable while those farming gold get free access to items from content they haven’t even put effort into at a more efficient rate.

Insignia.6345:

Am i missing something? aren’t the skins 10g+ or did they drop recently? (Pardon my ignorance im legitimately confused here, if i can make 10g in 30 minutes please tell me how! :P )

sword, shield, and staff are about 10-11g. Longbow/shortbow/scepter are 4-6g. Greatsword is 17-18g.

The prices will continue dropping as more skins accumulate, just like how they dropped for the halloween skins.

The main point of the post, however, is that you should not have access to skins from content you haven’t bothered with. Period. Crafted skins should be the only skins up for sale. Maybe black lion chest skins as well.

You should not be able to bypass content and achievement by throwing gold at things.

They should just reduce the token costs of the weapons so that farming gold isn’t a more efficient way to get them, imo.

Is what it takes for a super skin. You can do the proper content and come close to enough tokens for a skin in about 2 hours having to resort to alts, or you can run cof p1 and earn the amount of money needed for pretty much every skin but the greatsword in half an hour. Add another half an hour and you got your greatsword still in half the time it would take doing speed runs with 6 alts of the SAB content.

You can substitute cof for coe and even still AC, hell even TA if you know how to skip. It would be a bit less efficient than cof, but still faster. Or farm world bosses and Penitent’s for loot bags at cursed shore.

It seems incredible how weapon skins in this game are not prestigious or a sign that you’ve done the content. Every skin outside explorable sets or fractal skins is purchasable, and it’s more efficient to farm the money to purchase them than actually do the content that drops the mats/tokens for it.

I got lucky and got my super shield skin off a chest drop — many people are not so lucky. I just wish this game would not be made ineffective by the TP because you can get anything you want from the TP without needing to play the game. Even the personal story pact weapons are up for sale.

You can nerf cof p1, but that will only make people farm the next most efficient dungeon or stick to penitent farming or open world chests. The TP renders this game’s achievement and reward systems obsolete. It’s a test of willpower to farm rather than whether you’ve actually done the content. And I feel bad for the poor guy who does the honest content while the shrewd person farming cof p1 will get the skins quicker, or the person who got the skin drop from the chest early sells it and can get 3 skins later when prices drop while the unlucky fools had to slowly repeat their way into skins.

Faux Sheaux.6179:

Manekk.6981:

You can’t use Troll Unguent and get perma regeneration.

Troll unguent stacks 8 seconds of regen on you on top of its heal (25s cooldown from Runes of Dwayna). Getting hit by a damaging condition gives you 8 seconds of regen (20s cooldown from traits). Going below 75% hp gives you 8 seconds of regen (30s cooldown from traits). 5% chance of gaining 16s regen from being hit (30s cooldown from Runes of Dwayna). 10s regen from fern hound (20s cooldown).

Runes of Dwayna are pretty handy. 20% regen duration from runes + 33% duration from traits + 10% regen duration from 10 points in nature magic gives an overall +63% duration bonus to all regenerations applied.

So, tell me… where does the perma regeneration not happen when you are in battle?

When the opponent has any form of boon stripping? You’re stacking cooldowns, but the boon is gone in one fell swoop.

A mesmer with boon removal on shatter alone will remove the regen faster than you can put it up.

Dojo.1867:

I agree that most of our traits need reworks and so do utility skills. GS as a weapon itself is at a decent spot though. Maybe very slight buffs to autoattack or reowrking the throw of 4 a bit but beside that it makes no sense to make this weapon stronger when it is other stuff that makes rnager weak. They would just ignore the true problems then or have to nerf GS again once they fixed those. This is why I made this pure untraited comparison. Given the fact that we have a pet by design (that one day might function properly) 30% less DPS is a good balance for the weapon compared to a class that is purely made for dealing damage and has neither a pet to back it up nore good utility.

I disagree regarding utility. Banner/shout heal warriors offer more utility than rangers in general. But, I guess you are right in that fixing the traits would be a better solution.

Keep in mind mesmers and necros have been asking for changes to useless minor traits since beta and nothing has changed regarding those. Wastrel’s Punishment is still crap, and so are most of the minor traits in the non-Curses necro tree.

Dodging a swoop means the ranger just put his ranged weapon on cooldown to close distance with swoop and once you dodge that he’s got no way to hit with the GS and basically relies on the offchance that his pet might have better luck and land a CC.

It’s just a really inferior weapon to mainhand sword with double pounce animation tricks and the built in cripple you can permanently keep up on a target you do hit with pounce.

I really want to use a GS, god knows Sunrise will be my second legendary for my ranger, but I wish by the time I get my ranger his Sunrise the weapon is not there just for looks and it actually has something more than “well, you can block projectiles and evade every third autoattack!”. The defense does little when the offense itself is so poor.

And, yeah, you will land a 10k Maul with full traitline into power and using two signets, one of which (Hunt) is deficient for pvp and roaming/1v1, and the power traitline to begin with makes you a free kill since obviously you’re missing out on wilderness survival or BM or Nature Magic regen bonuses.

I’ve tested maul with a full knight setup. Not berserker that you can’t play in pvp. With a knight setup at about 1950 power and 46% crit chance, my Maul lands noncrit for about 1500-1600 damage initial and a puny 3 stack bleed. It may crit for 4k at best. That’s just paltry compared to what my other alts like the ele and mesmer and guardian are bursting for. And it’s all because of a pet, whose crit chance we can’t increase outside the Jaguar’s f2 skill, and who has issue hitting and staying on moving targets to begin with. Just have the pet try to hit a thief that sprays caltrops with dodges, the kitten pet will barely be on him between being crippled and unlike clones being dumbfounded by stealth and not immediately pursuing and attacking unstealthing targets.

And quite frankly at full BM on my ranger with jaguar and 30% increased crit damage, the pet at best crits for 4k seldomly unless you pop sic em+signet of the wild, both of which are hefty cooldowns, and are reliant on an inconsistent pet actually using his stealth f2 in time on the target.

The pet compensates for the damage portion we’re behind a warrior BASELINE, and that’s in the best case scenario where against a pve mob standing still where the pet can land its animation-tied attacks. But then the warrior gets might stacking, gets a free 9% crit chance increase, vulnerability stacking — it’s really dumb how short the pet falls of closing the gap of traits+ gear scaling via crit dmg (they cap at 30% benefit with trait), and their crit chance is always capped barring Jaguar stealth. In fact, if you use any pet but the jaguar the damage even drops down drastically unless it’s replaced by a raven. Moas are a significant drop in damage, as are dogs, followed by ranged pets (devourer is infinitely better than the spider for some reason on his autoattack). The only pet that survives in a aoe damage environment for some time, the bear, does horrendous damage.

I wish this game was like Skyrim so I could either pickpocket Rox/Braham’s unique weapon skins and Brahm’s armor, or kill them and take the stuff.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Ranger GS is more consistent with more utility than the Warrior GS. Warrior GS is countered by stunbreakers and dodging more readily than Ranger GS is.

Also, the damage of the pet needs to be factored in to the equation to make any real comparison.

What? It’s kitten easy to kite a greatsword ranger. Dodge the swoop and dodge the block/sword throw, and the ranger can’t stick to you. Have you actually tried staying on a competent thief or mesmer with your greatsword, or a good ele?

Maul may have received a buff, but the problem with GS is and will continue to be its autoattack.

And a coefficient comparison means very little when weapons are designed with trait builds in mind, and warrior traits are supremely better to ranger ones.

Moreover, the pet does not scale. It may make up 30-40% of the ranger’s damage, but when food and sharpening stones are factored in, alongside procs and traits, it doesn’t even get close. Pets don’t inherit crit damage or condition duration or condition damage. Just test the bleeds from your jaguar vs yours in rampager gear. Even withg the traits to increase pet condi damage it’s far inferior.

You need to pop very long cd’s and go 30 into the crappy power line to be doing the numbers and burst that my pvt guardian with berk accessories does with a simple tough/vit traitlines symbol build with greatsword. It’s baaaaaad.

The sad part is most people don’t play alts extensively so they don’t have a clue about the gaps, and since there are no DPS meters it’s very easy for developers to have the players remain blind and content.

Durzlla.6295:

Goatjugsoup.8637:

Durzlla.6295:

Goatjugsoup.8637:

I would typically use a longbow for the weakness and crowd control skills but I think that build of yours would be a lot more effective if it was coupled with the shortbow with a sup sigil of earth. If you have a high precision the natural speed of the shortbow (even lowered as it has been) will be more than enough to inflict a full stack of bleeding in no time. Plus it has a poison spreadshot

Yes, but you -don’t- have a lot of precision, and then you’d completely lose your ally support and your area denial. Shortbow is more of a single target damage skirmishy (1v1) sort of weapon, the longbow can do -ok- in 1v1 but it’s significantly better in team fights than the shortbow is.

The shortbow just can not support the group as well as the longbow can.

I think you are missing my intended point. On every class that has the option to switch weapons in mid combat you have 10 weapon skills, not 5. When I was playing ranger I was using both longbow and shortbow, for all the benefits you might see to longbow there are also cd periods to deal with and at that point why not switch weapons especially since if you use them right they can complement each other quite well

But then I lose out if I go up against anyone with anti ranged, or if anyone closes the gap and I just can’t shake them, that’s why I have a sword/torch, the sword/torch also makes it easier to contest points due to the evading and the torches bonfire.

Like, it could work, I’m sure, but I just am not a fan of doubling up on ranged weapons, I feel there’s more cons than pros.

Agree on this. Most melee have more tools to close distance than ranged have to create them.

Unless you’ve got pocket bodyguards I highly recommend against double ranged weapons. If you want to go double range, just take the axe/dagger instead so at least you still have one evade and a chill+weakness plus a punishing splitblade.

Don’t spirits have a 10 second ICD in between procs? I’m a little lost on how a 1 second duration burning proc on a 35% chance could end up with so much burning. Or is the burning proc player based, and thus the player+3 hyenas= 4 seconds of burning from one proc each?

This game needs some serious antizerg mechanisms. Most servers just runs scouts and then 2 or 3 giant blogs of 40+ people around a map. Either travel times through a map need to be decreased so smaller groups can do something without scouts summoning zergs in a a few minutes, or implement server mechanisms that introduce counters to zerging either by summoning more Siegerazer’s with their group boons and buubles/extra sieges and such.

AoE with these large zergs is also quite a problem. The combined aoe and cleaving on walls and at doors gets too much — you can’t repair doors because aoe spells are rained on it. It just seems that past a certain point of zerg numbers, your only alternative is to bring a similarly large zerg.

The server should detect smaller groups defending or assaulting and grant them reduced build costs on sieges so they build faster and give their sieges improved effects like more sturdiness and damage. The buffs scale so if more numbers join the buffs are phased out.

You should think of making lords and guards scale and have mechanics like the harder guild bounty targets to give zergs a harder time and consider splitting up.

Atherakhia.4086:

When you guys took the time to respond to this thread, it was already in the Warrior forum. It doesn’t make much sense to expect much in-depth ranger discussion in the Warrior forum, does it?

I feel like I started this by bringing up Ranger spirits, but the only reason I said that was because I feel spending time an energy to improve banners, something most people feel are fine, when another class which has effectively the same exact mechanic can’t use theirs at all is a waste of time. If they wanted Warriors to realistically use banners, they should improve the Warrior to the point where they could realistically consider their use. The way things work right now, no one will ever use banners for anything more than a novelty — “HeHeHar lookit me regens!”.

Now as for the Rangers plight, I could talk at great length on that subject too as I feel this game has the worst representation of the ranger archetype I’ve ever seen. Even games that don’t have Rangers have implemented them better!

But you dying to 100b is on you. You claim the damage is too high, but you play a class with a legitimate and viable bunker option. That’s strike one against you. You play a class with high stamina regen, a move that breaks stun and gives you full regen, multiple disengages, multiple snares, roots, and dazes. Every single one of these things would have had to been on cooldown for you to legitimately have an excuse to dying to 100b.

Don’t want to play bunker? Don’t want to run full apothecary gear? Don’t feel you should need lightning reflexes and effectively the 5 dodges in a row it allows? That’s fine, but that’s an issue you have to bring up with Rangers on the Ranger forum with a pretty good excuse with why you’re attempting to PvP without a PvP build.

The reason this is an issue on the Warrior forum and you’re being mocked is because unlike Rangers and every class in the game, the Warrior doesn’t have a real spec to fall back on anymore. They don’t have a bunker option to choose.

This is the Warrior forum. This post has been on the Warrior forum since I first commented on it. If you have gripes or need assistance in avoiding 100b or specing your Ranger, you’re not going to get very far talking about it on the Warrior forum.

LOL. Banners are used in cof speed runs and even in most dungeons and WvW. The benefits are substantial, just that other utilities are better for spvp.

You don’t get 5 dodges in a row with vigor up. Lightning Reflexes doesn’t do anything against immobilize, and most rangers only get condi removal via a trait every 10 seconds, so the warrior/allies can bait that passive condi removal and then apply the root. And then you eat a full HB.

The warrior cannot land a 100b alone on someone most of the time, but with allies, especially a scepter guardian or a fellow ranger around with roots, it’s VERY easy to land HB. And even when you don’t whirling attack does a chunk of damage as well.

Frenzy>100b did more than a single backstab crit, and does even more than a backstab+mug. The thief only beats the warrior in burst because he can spam HS after and his mug+backstab is much easier to land by himself while the warrior needs help landing his burst.

When a warrior is ON his target, NO OTHER CLASS outdamages him. I think that’s the error of their design, that they made a warrior an absolute beast in melee range damage, but he misses sustained mobility so that he can’t have uptime on his target or else things melt. It’s very bipolar.

Vicarious.3047:

Zenith.7301:

Even at 2.1k toughness if my ranger ate a full 100b, he was reduced to around 10% HP left.

100b is ridiculously strong if it lands.

It just needs about a 40% damage nerf, shorter channel, and be made mobile in return. When it’s the only single ability that can land 28k figures on berserker gear (in cof there’s even a video of it doing 42k).

How much heal did you have? 10K!?

With that much toughness a FULL GLASS CANON 100B warrior will not do above 14K damage in sPvP (which is where the concern for the builds is most prominent), the end.

Also you seriously can’t be using PvE crit numbers to try and support an argument for PvP, it’s absolutely and completely pointless to do so.

With a shaman amulet my ranger sits at 16k HP. Not everyone is a necromancer or warrior. If you don’t grab an amulet with vitality or spec heavily into the vitality line 15-17k is the average for most builds.

The ability does absurd damage. Yet, even at the 3.5 sec unhasted channel time, you can just have the guardian in your team chain someone to give you plenty of time to channel it.

You simply cannot balance the ability’s current damage with landing it reliably. The current mechanic is that if you do land 100b+whirling attack, it’s either a kill shot or leaving someone with a couple thousand hp to be finished down. Very easy to dodge 1v1, not so much when you have a group pinning people down for you.

The only reason you don’t see it is because both elementalist and mesmers have invulnerabilities and teleports that can even get them out of roots or negate the damage of 100b when you do land it. And they currently dominate the scene.

Having the skill be more mobile and reducing its damage to allow more consistent use would address the problem of these kinds of professions who have invulnerabilities, so they can’t negate the big chunk of your damage and instead you lose just a part of it but can punish them later on.

Redscope.6215:

Regardless, it is there. I’m not questioning how good/bad/useful these skills are, I’m providing you with a reason as to why the spirit weapon is destructable and the banner is not. If you want to change the subject to usefulness of skills, we can go there instead.

Again, their active abilities usefulness was not in question. The fact that it exists is what I’m comparing to the banner’s indestructability. If you want to compare usefulness, how useful is immobilizing and crippling a warrior closing the distance on you vs. an extra 170 power and 170 condition damage within a limited 600 radius? How important is it that a melee class must leave you to focus a summoned creature down in order to not be hampered by it? Do you even notice that being able to be attacked means a spirit can body block for you as you escape attacks? That question even eludes mesmers as they don’t seem to consider their clones as a miniature aegis against single-target attacks.

All of these things must be considered when balancing summons.

The ability to pick up and move banners is as much a benefit as it is a curse. Tell me you’d rather have a moveable spirit with no active ability on a 120 second cooldown that can be moved at the cost of your weapon skills’ readiness; then you would be asking for a banner.

Spirits and spirit weapons have full uptime too, its just not guaranteed. They certainly can last for as long as they’re supposed to.

Bingo, you’ve hit the nail on the head. They have to be targeted. You have to actively use time, concentration, and skills on them in order to bring them down.

I would not consider a >1/3 of all hits proccing 3 base seconds of protection inferior to any banner. In fact, when traited in Nature Magic, one of the Ranger’s most potent lines, you can nearly perma-protect if that spirit is up. That’s all the more reason to let it be kill-able don’t you think? Well maybe not, but most people would.

Rangers can already perma-regen from Nature Magic. Perma-protect on top of that, add 1200 range, and a pet that melts faces off with a near infinite range and you’ve got an extremely powerful build.

You absolutely can counter banner benefits. Simply move outside of the radius. The warrior has to get to you, you’ve got superior range. How is it that ranged players always forget about their distance advantage?

As for cleaves: if you’re standing next to your spirits fighting a melee as a ranger, you’re not doing it right. If you’re fighting a warrior in a banner’s buff circle, you’re not doing it right.

Which are so very useful when fighting other players. They’re almost OP. In fact, I specifically call a banner, pick it up, and spam ‘1’ with it because its just so powerful. Please…

It doesn’t seem like you understand spirits. Their procs have a 10 second ICD. So you can only have a 35% base chance to proc a 3 second protection with a 10 second cooldown between procs. Basically, what an ele does by switching to earth attunement with a trait, except he gets even more boons when switching other attunements and his boon proc is guaranteed.

I’d rather have the permanent boons and indestructible spirit, thank you very much. The activated ability is centered on the spirit, which you can’t be near to if you want it to live more than 3 seconds. No, it doesn’t take focus; there’s this thing called cleaving. You know, when that elementalist uses burning speed and circle of flame, or the mesmer shatters or uses berserker phantasm, your spirit dies while you’re eating a chokful of damage yourself. Melee strikes like the warrior also hit the spirit, since they cleave. You know, which it will if you want to activate its effect for it to hit the opponent. I also think you don’t understand that the activated ability is about 2 seconds worth of animation, in which most of the time the targets are out of the area of effect if they’re moving.

And if you’re going to use traits to prop spirits, you can also use traits to extend banner range to 900.

BTW, good luck finding a use for Storm spirit with a swiftness proc or Sun Spirit for a 1 sec burning proc.

And please don’t be dense when I mentioned specifically boons as the activated skills part of utility use. You’re not meant to spam 1. You’re meant to pick them up in between engagements and begin engagements by using the abilities that grant group boons and plant them down.

I can’t believe you’re saying pets melt faces at 1200 range. The pets stop in place in between animations, and actually making them hit a moving target is one of the biggest complaints by rangers. Just because rangers can debunker you when you have to stand on a point instead of freely moving around does not mean the pet is powerful.

Redscope.6215:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Sorry I can’t respond to everyone, but I’ll try to hit some other issues you’ve brought up:

Thanks for responding at all! Your words, however many or few, are always appreciated!

JonathanSharp.7094:

we want to improve some of their specs that are out-shined by 100 b’s.

Hundred Blades was only powerful when coupled with Frenzy, a gap closer, and an immobilization. Otherwise its nearly pointless outside of PvE.

JonathanSharp.7094:

-Responding overall: We read a ton of things on the forums, but as you can imagine, we can’t respond to them all. When time allows, like today, I try to get on the forums as much as I can with actual responses – not just reading.

Again, thank you very much for your time. As we all know it is not required of you to do so. Your insight can do a lot to quell unsubstantiated speculation and arguements.

Even at 2.1k toughness if my ranger ate a full 100b, he was reduced to around 10% HP left.

100b is ridiculously strong if it lands.

It just needs about a 40% damage nerf, shorter channel, and be made mobile in return. When it’s the only single ability that can land 28k figures on berserker gear (in cof there’s even a video of it doing 42k).

Really, that’s all the change it needs. Warriors are hurt because they can’t land it, but if they could land it, it’d be broken. So reduce the cd of endure pain, reduce the cd on whirling attack and reduce its damage and give it a long cripple duration.

Other weapons’ leaps should have mobility boosts as well except for axe, which if it will see a mobility boost its crazy sustained damage needs to come down by toning the autoattack down.

Buff warrior heals a bit.

Redscope.6215:

Zenith.7301:

Why did spirits and guardian spirit weapons become destructible while banners remain immune?

That’s an easy one. Spirit weapons act on their own while following the guardian and still allowing him to use weapon skills; they do not immediately cost a utility cooldown because of their command ability. Ranger spirits grant spirit-specific buffs much like the banners do, however they continue to be a useable utility after placement much like spirit weapons.

Both spirits and spirit weapons have much shorter cooldowns than banners as well, so their uptime in spots where you need them is much more likely and would not require you to literally carry one of your utility skills around in place of a weapon from encounter to encounter.

What? Given that most guardians are not traited for spirits not destructing when commanded, most guardians don’t get to use the command ability because it’s BAD. Especially in the case of the spirit shield. It already costs them a utility cooldown since they’re not carrying shouts — with the exception of the spirit hammer all command abilities are useless.

Spirit boons are short duration, have no uptime comparable to banners. And to even bring their activated abilities as if you would set them down in the way of harm, which is where they need to be because their ability is activated UNDER them, will not happen given their frailty.

You’re also exaggerating the inconvenience of carrying banners around — I bet rangers would kill for this inconvenience. You talk about cooldowns, but don’t care to pay attention that banners have full uptime. Banner of defense will always stay up 1 minute out of 2 minutes. The spirits die within seconds of being targeted and go on a 60 second cd — their cd is also tempered with their much inferior proc effects while your banner gives benefit 100% of the time. You cannot counter banner benefits, but you can shut down spirits immediately and casually with cleaves.

And when you list the inconvenience of switching weaponsets while carrying a banner, you forget the rather useful groiup wide boons their wielded abilities provide.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Atherakhia.4086:

JonathanSharp.7094:

We’re going to be working on a lot of Warrior stuff in the coming patches. But will we be changing things, in the OP’s words, “in a few days”? Nope. We have to wait for patches to move through the system of developing content, refining it, iterating on it, getting it tested, and then getting pushed to live.

Warriors are very strong in PvE, and they’re struggling in PvP – we know this. Contrary to popular belief, we play our game, in all formats, and we talk to player experts in all formats. We also read the forums.

But that doesn’t mean we’re going to throw knee-jerk/reactive changes based on any piece of feedback we receive. As we’ve said NUMEROUS times, we’re doing slow tweaks so that we don’t have to do whack-a-mole balance.

Just because things don’t happen “in a few days” doesn’t mean they’re not happening!

Jon, the problem is the complaints are piling up, the issues are blatantly obvious, and not once have I ever read a single person complain about banners. And for 3 patches now, the improvements were all related to banners. Not on mobility. Not on bunker builds. Not on conditions. And not on defensive options.

And what’s funny, seeing as I play(ed) a Ranger, is you’re making all these banner changes when your time and effort really should have been spent revising ranger spirits as they’re infinitely worse than banners and yet their functional use to the class and group are almost identical to those of banners for warriors.

I’m no novice to MMO’s so I know I’m probably not being fair in my criticism, but it really does seem like nothing of substance is ever changing in the right direction for Warriors (and Rangers…).

Good points, but the reason we sometimes adjust the “unplayed” specs is to provide build diversity. Banners are one of those specs that we’re trying to adjust slowly to provide a whole new build for Warriors. This doesn’t mean we don’t care about other specs, we’re just trying to do things slowly.

And yes, Ranger spirits are in the same boat as Warrior banners. They were VERY powerful before ship, but after changes, they are on the lower end of the power curve right now. So they’ll be slowly adjusted over time to bring them back up as well.

Spirits are not even on the same ballpark of weak banners might have been. Banners provide buffs no other class brings (crit dmg, for example), and have active abilities while wielded. They are indestructible and portable.

Spirits are destructible, offer a boon or condition proc on a very low uptime, and their activated effects aren’t even remarkable due to their cast times and spirit’s susceptibility to aoe bombs.

Why did spirits and guardian spirit weapons become destructible while banners remain immune?

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Frankly I don’t care how the patch changes effected pve, otherwise I would be posting in a different part of the forum, you fail to understand my lack of interest in how these changes are perceived by PvE players just as they do when PvE changes effect PvP.

Some players play both. Not everyone is selfish and dismissive of balance for the game as a whole instead of getting only what they care about at the expense of others.

But isolate yourself in this subforum if it pleases you. Something tells me that by population numbers your kind of approach won’t get much traction.

I posted on the PvP sub forum, because I wished to get a PvP prospective on the changes, had I wanted both theses views I would’ve posted in the general discussion part of the forum; that is why sub forums exist good sir, just because you wish to disregard that, doesn’t make me selfish in the least.

Again to address the edit content that you added in later; I don’t play pve, so I really have no capacity to understand how these changes effect it or the classes, but please refer to me as selfish because I don’t wish to discuss a topic I don’t know much about.

You are not selfish because you don’t want to talk about a topic you’re ignorant on. You’re selfish because you refuse to acknowledge the influence of said topic on the current state of pvp. Balance issues bleed over in a game balanced for universal skills most of the time.

You gave me, what, 3 splits in a sea of abilities cuttenly imbalanced in both aspects? What proportion did these splits make out of the entire balancing changes so far? And did the evasive arcana nerf really constitute a nerf for elementalists? How many elementalists went full 30 arcana vs. 20?

Xeph.4513:

Frankly I don’t care how the patch changes effected pve, otherwise I would be posting in a different part of the forum, you fail to understand my lack of interest in how these changes are perceived by PvE players just as they do when PvE changes effect PvP.

Some players play both. Not everyone is selfish and dismissive of balance for the game as a whole instead of getting only what they care about at the expense of others.

But isolate yourself in this subforum if it pleases you. Something tells me that by population numbers your kind of approach won’t get much traction.

It’s just amazing how some people think that PvE can be divorced from PvP in a game where developers have to craft and maintain professions for 3 aspects of the game with subdivisions among them.

I missed doing the bounty with my guild this week, and was wondering if anyone in EU was doing it and would like to help out with a ginvite. I will helps search and any other help — just would appreciate a guild willing to let me earn my weekly tokens.

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Staff mesmer is kitten in autoattack as well, part of the reason why it’s not used in PvE. Autos seem irrelevant to you because you’re a PvP player fighting things with a low finite HP of about 27k hp at best.

Autoattacks on the other hand make up the majority of sustained damage in PvE. They are a necessary and important part of the game, and the scepter has terrible autoattacks on every attunement. All I saw on your video was burst derived from the offhand dagger, the 2 air abilities, and arcane utilities. In the same old s/d burst build.

I was under the impression this was the pvp section of the forums; and that we are discussing all of this in a pvp scenario, besides Arena net has shown that they can balance for pve and pvp separately.

When have they balanced PvE and PvP separately? I thought you would have realized that with warriors.

The only noticeable split they’ve done is with confusion. I don’t recall any other substantial skill splitting patch anywhere close to the vicinity of gw1 balancing.

Evasive Arcana: The spell cast while in water attunement has been split between PvE and PvP. This spell’s effectiveness with the healing attribute has been reduced by 50% while in Pv

Save your self from the guardian also has increased buff duration in pve.

Those are some skills that have been split.

Haste nerfed by 50% largely to PvP concerns (and especially time warp). In one fell swoop any semblance of viabily was removed from pve rangers (ranges have the most haste uptime of any class).

The breadth of balance changes has been done without thought on the impact of both formats at the same time. Necros are mediocre and have not received pve buffs due to them being strong in the PvP metagame as boon-strippers and the cc from the staff.

And honestly, have you thought about the mechanic behind the beam multi-targeting, whether they would have the technology or capacity to turn it off in one format or not the other? Because it’s not a numbers tweak when it comes to the new beam mechanic.

So your trying to say that they nerfed quickness without taking into account what it would do to classes in pve, well thats something only arena net can answer for you; but I am pretty sure that they knew it was going to effect every class with quickness, they didn’t suddenly forget.

Your also trying to say that classes are not being buffed in pve because they are strong in pvp, just going to say thats an absurd statement without anything to back it up.

Lastly regarding the mesmer beam; I am not well versed in coding so I wouldn’t be able to give you an answer regarding if arena net can do it or not; but I would lean towards the fact that they can, but as they said they wanted to implement it and have a look at how it works in pvp.

P.S please stop bringing pve into this, this is a pvp discussion forum and you would do well not bring that up in these parts, can be dangerous at times. :<

Just check the ranger forums. It’s in cold hard math the actual DPS impact on rangers, which if you don’t pay attention to PvE, are persona non grata alongside necros and to a lesser extent engineers.

You can say it’s absurd to say that one class is not buffed in x aspect so it won’t affect y, but in SotG they stated very clearly to you that they want their numbers to be universal and recognizable to all players across format.

I also ask you to test confusion builds in PvE vs, berserker stats. They just don’t work. And you know why they won’t increase the damage or duration of confusion to make it viable in one format? Because it’s already OP in WvW (which is pvp) and WvW uses PvE stat rulesets.

I just think you’re hiding behind the unreasonable expectation that they will simply be splitting skills when that is the exception rather than the rule. And it does rub me the wrong way when you complain about a new mechanic that was merely collateral to make the weapon less garbage in one aspect of the game, painting the situation as if they consciously made the move to buff elementalists in PvP while spiting PvP warriors yet again. They just seem to have a low priority evaluation of class balance when it comes to allocating resources.

A beam that opponents need to position themselves in between to be affected and is very easy to stay out of does not come close to one of the reasons that ele was tipped over the top in pvp. Mist form, exaggerated condition removal, cc, and great cleaving in one whole package plus boon strength is why they dominate — but not a weak ramping autoattack beam happening to strike more than one target between.

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Staff mesmer is kitten in autoattack as well, part of the reason why it’s not used in PvE. Autos seem irrelevant to you because you’re a PvP player fighting things with a low finite HP of about 27k hp at best.

Autoattacks on the other hand make up the majority of sustained damage in PvE. They are a necessary and important part of the game, and the scepter has terrible autoattacks on every attunement. All I saw on your video was burst derived from the offhand dagger, the 2 air abilities, and arcane utilities. In the same old s/d burst build.

I was under the impression this was the pvp section of the forums; and that we are discussing all of this in a pvp scenario, besides Arena net has shown that they can balance for pve and pvp separately.

When have they balanced PvE and PvP separately? I thought you would have realized that with warriors.

The only noticeable split they’ve done is with confusion. I don’t recall any other substantial skill splitting patch anywhere close to the vicinity of gw1 balancing.

Evasive Arcana: The spell cast while in water attunement has been split between PvE and PvP. This spell’s effectiveness with the healing attribute has been reduced by 50% while in Pv

Save your self from the guardian also has increased buff duration in pve.

Those are some skills that have been split.

Haste nerfed by 50% largely to PvP concerns (and especially time warp). In one fell swoop any semblance of viabily was removed from pve rangers (ranges have the most haste uptime of any class).

The breadth of balance changes has been done without thought on the impact of both formats at the same time. Necros are mediocre and have not received pve buffs due to them being strong in the PvP metagame as boon-strippers and the cc from the staff. Warriors have not received the hefty damage reductions they need in PvE because it would further cripple them in PvP where landing 100b is harder.

And honestly, have you thought about the mechanic behind the beam multi-targeting, whether they would have the technology or capacity to turn it off in one format or not the other? Because it’s not a numbers tweak when it comes to the new beam mechanic. They said in that podcast that it was new technology they had just come up with.

Xeph.4513:

Zenith.7301:

Staff mesmer is kitten in autoattack as well, part of the reason why it’s not used in PvE. Autos seem irrelevant to you because you’re a PvP player fighting things with a low finite HP of about 27k hp at best.

Autoattacks on the other hand make up the majority of sustained damage in PvE. They are a necessary and important part of the game, and the scepter has terrible autoattacks on every attunement. All I saw on your video was burst derived from the offhand dagger, the 2 air abilities, and arcane utilities. In the same old s/d burst build.

I was under the impression this was the pvp section of the forums; and that we are discussing all of this in a pvp scenario, besides Arena net has shown that they can balance for pve and pvp separately.

When have they balanced PvE and PvP separately? I thought you would have realized that with warriors.

The only noticeable split they’ve done is with confusion. I don’t recall any other substantial skill splitting patch anywhere close to the vicinity of gw1 balancing.

Staff mesmer is kitten in autoattack as well, part of the reason why it’s not used in PvE. Autos seem irrelevant to you because you’re a PvP player fighting things with a low finite HP of about 27k hp at best.

Autoattacks on the other hand make up the majority of sustained damage in PvE. They are a necessary and important part of the game, and the scepter has terrible autoattacks on every attunement. All I saw on your video was burst derived from the offhand dagger, the 2 air abilities, and arcane utilities. In the same old s/d burst build.

I saw your questions on the SotG, about why skills wouldn’t be split. And if the dev answers or the fact that 6 months past with minimal split have not clued you into the fact that skill splitting will be a late and last resort in most instance, you better get used to holistic balancing patches. Instead ask for nerfs on aspects that PvE eles don’t use much, like cantrips.

Khalifahaze.6045:

Insane burst damage (lich form, daggers with haste) will make boons not that big of a deal. We run a super heavy burst comp. People underestimate the damage a power necro puts out. It is on par with warrior/thief etc it’s all how you build your character.

So what do you do when people have brains and dodge your dark pact, which has a long enough cast time, and proceed to walk out of your well? There went most of your damage. Dark Pact even has, what a 600 range? What opponent seeing a dagger necro coming won’t just stand beyond that range and pummel you while kiting?

A pistol/shortbow thief alone will spam unloads on you and just stealth cleanse conditions if you happen to close in and reset range. Amesmer will just blink out of the root or Phase Retreat. A warrior will shake the root off or endure pain/shield stance the moment you try to lay your combo down.

Hell in WvW all a thief or dd ele needs to do is reset the fight and waste your well. The come back when you’re out of your well cooldown and they’re healed and muscle you down. If they’re any good you just can’t autoattack them to death with dagger.

Torqky.3682:

Zenith.7301:

Xeph.4513:

Chaosky.5276:

Xeph.4513:

Both the mesmer GS auto attack and Ele scepter do significant damage; its the first time I have seen someone claim otherwise, they may not be the best auto attacks in the game but they are far from being weak.

Ele and Mesmer already deal a large amount of aoe damage, I never understood why they should get a buff to their aoe damage if its already border line op.

Also please don’t try and compare a range skill to a melee auto attack.

I can’t speak for Spatial Surge, but you do realize that Arc Lightning only hits for about 1.8k over 3 1/2 seconds with the standard build, right? That’s also only if you even channel it for that long, which you won’t, because you need to switch to other attunements to use other skills and keep fury up. That’s not even considering that the scepter’s fire skills are absurdly easy to dodge, and that the earth attunement lacks offense.

I’m not saying that I want more AoE damage – I actually want less so that our ranged single-target capability can be improved – but the elementalist’s scepter is not an effective weapon for ranged damage as-is.

http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram/c/1932538

You can see Arc, doing over 3k in the video (with about 1 crit in the channel), I have also had it do over 4k; just because it doesn’t do damage in a bunker spec doesn’t mean that the spell is weak, you can also use lightning strike and a blind without breaking it channel.

You do realize that’s 3-4k in a 3 second span? In a single melee strike an axe warrior can do more than that, and even my mesmer’s melee chain 3rd step does that number and removes a boon.

Comparing melle auto attacks and skills to a range auto attack is apples and oranges…How many times does this need to be said.

It’s not apples and oranges when uptime in melee is so easy to maintain. A longbow berk ranger can also land a 4k auto in one shot, and let’s not even discuss thief shortbow strikes, which bounce.

This game also has this thing most of the playing population plays called PvE, in which most of the content can be spent in melee at little risk.

There is a reason why dagger/dagger and staff are used over the scepter in most of the game. Moaning about scepter autoattack buffs has got to be the most ridiculous complaint I’ve heard.