Guild Wars 2

Amonatory.2453:

Crucify.1649:

Amonatory.2453:

Crucify.1649:

Amonatory.2453:

Crucify.1649:

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

(perma evade never took skills anyways)

Cant disagree. But that’s acrobatics not S/D like im explaining I think If anything should get nerfed it should be feline grace not S/D.

It’s the fact that s/d is a synergy with acrobatics and SoA, making it “perma evade”. s/d evade has always been an issue since launch whether it was 20066, 26060, 02066 because of how frequently a thief can evade than any other class. Evading is already the most broken mechanic in the game giving it an almost 2 second “invulnerability” to physical damage/condition damage applications.

My personal opinion was to change SoA to give half your endurance back rather 100%, and make Flanking Strike a 1/4 evade, but again; I don’t really care what Anet does because I still play the game and adjust to whatever they “nerf” or “buff”.

Adjust to the game mechanics because you really don’t have any say in Anets changes, don’t make it a viral deal about it.

Why adjust to something that shouldnt be happening anyways? You dont know what youre talking about bro, stick to d/p plz.

I mean, I will lmao. I find s/d fairly easy so I don’t play it. Evades carry the game and what do you mean “shouldnt be happening anyways”, it doesn’t matter if it shouldnt be happening. I agree a lot of nerfs and buffs should not be happening, but what I’m saying is you should find a way around the nerf. At least people gave you intel about what’s changing in order for you to have time to adjust, otherwise you would whine more if you found out there were no intel on it, and a new patch came out unexpectedly with changes.

I’m not here to start crap, but you’re the one insanely kitten about the changes. Live with it. It’s the reason why not all of the other popular players have quit yet; they adjust.

Uhuh, D/P is the easiest weapon set imo. I’ve went through every single S/D nerf time and time again and frankly it gets old as kitten. This nerf is just going to make S/D blow which you probably want because you play D/P anyways. I didnt want to start anything against anyone im putting it out there that this nerf is literally pointless and not thought out at all and should not happen, if they read it cool if they dont thats their fault for ruining a weaponset.

Define “easiest”.
It is widely known that DP Trickery is one of the hardest specs to play effectively in sPvP(par Shatter Mesmer), while SD gets constantly a lot of hate because of how easy it is to stay alive with it.
Not sure what you’re going to prove here. I think you’re complaining too much, as the nerfs that SD is getting serve the purpose of adding some sort of counter play to it. In the hands of a good thief, this set will still outperform every other thief set.
And I play every thief spec from time to time, so I don’t take any sides. Merely staking what a lot of people think.

Prysin.8542:

MasterD.4790:

Prysin.8542:

Thing is that most gvg battles are within the “max group size” in which one ranger is effective. Beyond 15-20 people, one ranger is not going to be a noticably good teamplayer at all, that is a fact.

Say’s who? I know of exactly ZERO rangers used in 15v15 GvG’s by any of the top GvG guilds either EU or NA….

Ahem, let me explain why you see zero rangers in any GvG.

KITTENKITTENKITTENKITTENKITTENKITTENKITTENPEOPLEKITTENHATE RANGERS. DEMAND WAY MORE FROM A RANGER THEN A KITTEN WARRIOR KITTEN GUARDIAN OR KITTENKITTEN ELE.

True fact.

The biggest issue to any ranger ever partaking in GvG is the “min-max” fanboys, yes, fanboys. Because most min-max elitists ive met in WvW, regardless of NA or EU. All “think” they know what a ranger can or more importantly cannot do. And in most cases it has taken me less then 20 seconds to prove them wrong. Yes ranger cannot grant AOE aegis, AOE stability or AOE stealth. No it does not have portals. NO it does not have timewarp. No it does not have loads of burst AOE heals.
The same min-max fanboys also think that by using common 80 man zerg logic applied to any pet (regardless what type it is) pet must obviously die instantly. Because it is outright not feasible to press 2 buttons and make pet move or god forbid, swap pet before it dies (like you know, using your class mechanic right).

Then there is the lesser known facts about rangers, that have repeatedly been posted on this forum, the ranger forums and in the more recently created balance forum. These are known functions, several of which far surpass anything any other class can hope to produce. However these positive qualities MUST be negative because they a qualities tied to a RANGER. Sad fact, but undeniable.
Ranger Regen, albeit almost four times that of a warrior in addition to ranger regen being AOE is inferior to warrior regen in all circumstances according to most min-max fanboys you find in WvW. What does that tell you about the attitude towards rangers in the min-max GvG scene?

Ive met guilds who demand that ranger players must be mechanically and technically better then ANY other guild player if they want to bring a ranger. What does that tell you about attitudes towards the class? If your class happens to be a ranger, you must according to popular GvG guilds either be a gaming god, or a gaming jesus. Anything short of that is not sufficient to play a class that requires average human reflexes and perhaps surprisingly enough, a brain, to play.

/endrant

How many GvGs have you fought in?

Stomp gives 1s stability, which can be ripped by a Necro or by a Thief.

@Azawrath
I’ll provide an example :
Before the patch, I was able to interrupt a Heartseeker through a Black Powder by using Steal(traited with SoH) on the thief.
Now this had become more difficult, as sometimes you still Steal from them (because you get the stolen item), but you don’t interrupt anything, because the trait activates slightly AFTER you Steal – this way, the Daze and the Damage are dealt when the enemy has already completed the animation and is already in stealth.
Another example is with a Guardian. Sometimes, I am at low HP, I Steal from them to heal (thanks to Mug), but when I teleport to them I die because the Symbol they laid on the ground hit me BEFORE Mug procced.
Last example, the Hidden Thief trait. This trait gives stealth upon a successful Steal. However, if you trait Mug, you won’t get anything – even worse, you’ll get Revealed, as Mug procs AFTER the Steal. Basically, what happens is: you Steal>You get stealthed>Mug procs and you get Revealed.

Not to mention all the times Steal gets obstructed or “out of range” and still goes in full cool down.

Bring back old Shortbow #3 animation.
Remove the delay between Steal and Mug/Sleight of Hand.
These are more fixes, and if ANet was serious they would have been already corrected.
Alas, this is not the case.

If you are losing 450-150 then it means that it is not ENTIRELY your fault. It means that basically everyone in your team screwed up.

If you are fighting 2v1 on a point against 2 counters, look at the map and see if a teammate is coming to you. If he is not, leave ASAP and try to either stay alive, or to waste as much of the opponent’s time as possible. Dying a hero’s death won’t let you win the match.

Behellagh.1468:

Sorry if this isn’t some fan service anime series.

Considering how revealing other armor sets are, this comment is totally useless.
Roleplaying IS an important aspect of this game.

It’s HotW armor that has that ugly textures. Unfortunately there is no way for us to go around it. Shame, really.

This is not a FPS. You need awareness but it’s way easier to get it.
Also, be sure to bind the “Look Behind” key, as it’s invaluable when it comes to awareness.

If you want to improve, start doing 1v1s using ONLY sword, without offhand weapon.

Lopez.7369:

Zord.6130:

DP(trickery) thief vs Condi Necro should be a 50%/50%.

No. Any condition necromancer that loses to a thief is an embarrassment.

Then all the Condi necros I’ve fought, even in 1v1 servers, were an embarrassment. Which is not the case.

DP(trickery) thief vs Condi Necro should be a 50%/50%. This ratio can be changed by the following:
-Lyssa Runes on thief(add 10% to thief)
-Nightmare Runes on Necro(add 10% on necro)
-Necro running stunbreakers(add 10% on necro for every stun breaker he is carrying).
The only way for a DP to beat a Condi necro is to stick on him constantly with Shadow Shot, go in stealth for a quick burst and keep sticking on him, while CCing the necro with Steal, Stolen Skull, Basilisk Venom.
I’d open in stealth with BV, do some damage, interrupt the heal with Steal, go back in stealth and interrupt the heal again with the stolen fear.
The moment you fail to land one of those, you lose (as DP).

SD thieves are way better at dealing with necros thanks to their many Condi removals.
After the Dhuumfire nerf, necros are way easier to take on for thieves.

So, between random Condi spam, bubble turrets, instant knock backs, and 1 trick 20kdmg combo, engis were not satisfied with their thief counters

People like to play with their brain turned off

Artaz.3819:

Zord.6130:

PD thief is the same as PU mesmer, with the difference that it requires SLIGHTLY more skill to be played.

I used to have problems with PU mesmers until I played one. There is a severe weakness to the PU Mesmer build (typically mobility or damage output depending on Runes) and the phantasms (not clones) need to stay up for you to win. As the opponent, if you kill the phantasms (melee cleave or LB AoE works best), Crippling Dissipation (causes Cripple condition is a non-issue with Dogged March), Debilitating Dissipation only really hurts a 3rd of the time, and Confusing Combatants is bugged and doesn’t actually apply confusion from phantasms. So any PU mesmer is basically screwed if you take down there main damage source, phantasms, and you avoid the once every 8-10 second Blurred Frenzy burst.

The only worry is the few Mesmers that can mimic their clones well as that buys them a few more seconds between rotations but in combat mobility will trump that everytime.

The P/D thief has absolutely none of those issues though. It doesn’t have to worry about sacrificing damage or mobility for high stealth uptime/high health regen/high condition removal. Honestly, it’s easier to play than Mesmer too (as long as you don’t muck up/get interrupted with Cloak and Dagger and know what a shield reflect ability looks like, all is good).

You are right about PU mesmers, but even then you won’t be able to kill them.
I play mesmer too, and last time I lost to a warrior was… Never? And I’m not talking about PU, il never run that crap.

Full zerk, strength Runes. Swapping from SA to trickery when I see another power build nearby to 1v1 it.

You can not beat any decent PD thief with any kind of Warrior build. If they know what to dodge and don’t blow their dodges, you will not do anything to them.

PD thief is the same as PU mesmer, with the difference that it requires SLIGHTLY more skill to be played.

Signed
Thief main (dagger pistol)

Zach.3264:

You’re right. The build is really good, however.. if you make a mistake you get punished very badly for it. For this build to work properly, you need to be very good at it. Anyone who has taken the time to learn it and become good with it. I say hats off to them.

I’ve tried it, and I immediately missed my 6 points in Shadow Arts.

Why are you even comparing this build to a 6 points Shadow Arts build?

It’s not op, it’s simply so forgiving to play that even a really bad thief can shine with it.

Pack Runes.

Rolyate.6753:

Zord.6130:

Brother Omnio.6452:

hihey.1075:

Thief (DP) is a close second, but staying alive among all the mess of a fight is really hard and you can’t 1v1 no one unless you are WAY better than them. Definitely a class for more experienced players.

Oh yeah, this is so freaking hard thieves can own any class at 1 v 1 in pvp and they can easily do 1 v x in WvW. You bet this is a class for experienced players XD

You ninja lovers are so freaking pathetic : you can be proud to have killed the GW1 assassin, which was a good class, nothing to compare with this faceroll kills streak for noobs that the thief of GW2 is.

I’m asking myself if I ever seen a bad thief, which means any thief player is just a pro, considering the bulls you’ve wrote ^^

A DP thief can NOT “own” any meta class in Spvp. It is absolutely the opposite. DP is probably the worst build for 1v1s in PVP.
But of course you don’t even know what a 1v1 is in PVP. You probably run a PU mesmer or PD thief in WvW and believe yourself to be godly good at this game #yolo.

Back on topic: the funniest class I’ve played is Shatter Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. With the current meta, the class that entertains me the most is definitely a DP trickery thief.

D/P is a very strong 1v1 build if you run trickery line.

Lol no. Even if you HAVE the means to beat SOME classes, the amount of meta specs that counter DP is insane. And if you don’t get countered, you will take a lot to kill any Bunker build, that even if you win the 1v1 you will have spent so much time that you would have better done something else.
Only meta spec that can be easily beaten by a DP thief is a Shatter Mesmer. Or other thieves if you get the jump on them (but SD is way superior than DP in 1v1s).

messiah.1908:

if you wanna destroy s/d thief just interrupt his rotations (its pretty much like d/d ele)
cripple, chill, immobilize… and he runs away. but good s/d is hard to counter

New SD builds don’t have rotations. Thieves in general don’t rely on rotations. The initiative mechanic makes rotations totally useless for a thief.

Do not think you are good and don’t go 1v1 people around. You suck, and 1v1ing in a ladder match is only going to harm your team.

This is the best advice I can give to a new thief.

Brother Omnio.6452:

hihey.1075:

Thief (DP) is a close second, but staying alive among all the mess of a fight is really hard and you can’t 1v1 no one unless you are WAY better than them. Definitely a class for more experienced players.

Oh yeah, this is so freaking hard thieves can own any class at 1 v 1 in pvp and they can easily do 1 v x in WvW. You bet this is a class for experienced players XD

You ninja lovers are so freaking pathetic : you can be proud to have killed the GW1 assassin, which was a good class, nothing to compare with this faceroll kills streak for noobs that the thief of GW2 is.

I’m asking myself if I ever seen a bad thief, which means any thief player is just a pro, considering the bulls you’ve wrote ^^

A DP thief can NOT “own” any meta class in Spvp. It is absolutely the opposite. DP is probably the worst build for 1v1s in PVP.
But of course you don’t even know what a 1v1 is in PVP. You probably run a PU mesmer or PD thief in WvW and believe yourself to be godly good at this game #yolo.

Back on topic: the funniest class I’ve played is Shatter Mesmer. But that was a long time ago. With the current meta, the class that entertains me the most is definitely a DP trickery thief.

Gorni.1764:

Zord.6130:

If all it takes to kill an Ele is a chill/immobilize, then I’d tell that Ele to get better at gw2.

Of course it doesn’t kill an ele automatically but it’s the best way to deal with them 1v1. Time a root well (when water attunement is on CD) and the ele can really get into trouble. It has always been a good counter against eles.

Immobilize is a good counter against anything. However, eles have good ways to survive: their Cantrips are on demand cleanses, Burning Speed is a nice evade and Shocking Aura is godlike when pressured.

If all it takes to kill an Ele is a chill/immobilize, then I’d tell that Ele to get better at gw2.

phaeris.7604:

Ele is fine 1v1 (condi classes are a pain though).

But if your team has any sort of focus the ele will fall over in seconds. This is the big issue and problem with elementalists. In a grp fight it’ll always be targeted first as it has the most to contribute if left alive in terms of heals/damage yet has the lowest hps+defence of all classes, no invisibility, no illusions and few escapes.

The eles best escape is casting FGS and running very far away. Not real helpful to your team on a point.

They do well in solo queue as there is no coordination . All it takes is two people working together to shut down an ele in no time at all. Every other class can weather/avoid much more of a beating whilst maintaining some sort of offense.

Stacking chill/immobilise (which there are ample amounts of in pvp) ruins eles with ease.

Lol no, Ele, if focused, is far better at handling pressure than a Warrior. Perma vigor, Burning Speed, RTL, Lightning Flash+Protection and mistform are all great escapes. A warrior will NOT last more than 3-5 seconds more than a Ele ON point, but he has no means of disengaging, while Ele has a lot. If the Ele sees that he’s been focused, he can move away easily and only a thief can chase him down (but even then it would take quite a while and if this happens)

DD Ele is the new faceroll class. I fail to see how a DD Ele could lose against a Hambow. Perma vigor + Shock Aura + Protection on demand + long Stability + teleport, along with evades, a lot of cleanses and insane burst healing.
DD Ele should never lose against a Hambow.

Hahaha there are still people like this around?

I’d say S/D 20066 is quite good for roaming. You won’t be afraid of much with that build, roaming wise, and it’s also a very good build to start improving your game (even if it’s really strong in PVP, on a beginner it is quite useful as you will learn to kite).
DP (or DD) shadow arts are still decent. You will beat bad people really easily, but anyone with half a brain will kick your kitten.
All in all, PD Condi is a build that will definitely carry you without many problems. SD is strong but you will pay your mistakes hard. DP (or DD) are decent and safer to play than SD but are really weak against good players and you’ll need to outplay them (or bore them to death by chain stealthily over and over) to really win.

After being put in downed state, instantly rallying at 100% HP because I Leveled Up after completing my daily through finishing the “Skill Interrupter” achievement through interrupting the stomp animation with my autoattack which still had Basilisk Venom on… And then killing the guy shamelessly.

Elitist.8701:

Phantasm Mesmer is also a no-no for me. This is for one reason: the build goes against my number one rule for GW2, to play a build that takes skill. Phantasm Mesmer is an AI build. The play style is literally summoning AIs and letting them do the work. I cannot express how much I despise these types of builds. Turret engi, MM necro. God no. Whenever I see these builds in hot join I will go out of my way to call my guildies in and deliberately keep attacking those AI build and verbally attacking themuntil they rage quit, and I have no shame. They deserve it. To rely on computer programming because they can’t learn to play is incredibly sad.

In short, no.
NEVER

I would rather quit the game than play an AI build.

If every player of this game thought like you, we would have a better PVP experience.

Mrbig.8019:

laquito.5269:

Leeto.1570:

laquito.5269:

Another whiny player. If I’ve learned one thing from these forums, it’s that thief – no matter what build currently is meta - will always be considered OP. It’s ridiculous.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Because thief no matter what spec or how weak in overall it is, have lots of broken and overpowered mechanics.
And as most of thief players are teen ninjas they have problems with critical thinking.
+other players cant even come with suggestions to solve these problems and improve thief overall cause then there comes this army of thiefs defending their class with some absurd offtopic arguments.

The behavior of non thief players complaining about thieves doesn’t promote critical thinking in first place, because they usually come up with arguments that are either not relevant to the strenght of said build, or , which is more often the case, whine about >class mechanics<.

Most of these posts are written by selfish, raging kids, whose intention isn’t even to improve or shape thief as a class, but merely to get them nerfed, because they’re unable or unwilling to adapt.

You’re sounding like ANet doesn’t ever touch thief specs, although we’re the class that probably gets shaped the most, based on whine posts like these. I don’t quite understand how you fail to see the pattern that is brought upon the class by these whine posts:
D/D Burst too strong —> Signet; Mug, CnD nerfed
S/D/Larcenous too strong --> Ini cost upped, Boonsteal reduced (Lyssa nerfed)
S/P overpowered —> Ini upped

Some of these nerfs were indeed necessary, but now you’re whining about something that has already been nerfed across the board. Thief sacrifices TWO traits for “perma” vigor, whereas other classes can easily have a high vigor uptime with one or nill.

Actually the only reason S/D Acro/Trick works is because of the Sigils (and Runes to a lesser extent) that offer enough damage to make up for CS, but this is a general “problem” (If u may say so), and now I ask you again: Why the kitten did OP explicitly state thieves in the topic, whereas the root problem holds truth for every class?

because thanks to sigil/runes buffs now teefs can build up all the cheese they have ( S/D evades, acro evades, daze on steal, perma vigor even after vigor nerf thanks to both vigorous recovery AND bountiful theft) in a single package while keeping high damage that before them wasn’t possible to achieve, making it the STRONGEST profession in game by far.

S/P was never Op in the first place, it was coutnerable and needed quite decent skill to be used effectively.

Now literally EVERY NAB can build his 2-0-0-6-6 teef and be a threat even greater than wars.

The problem is about thieves since they have the most broken mechanics in game: paired with sigils buffs they can just pack them in one package and faceroll.

Signed

Thief main.

Totally agreed.

Thief main here too.

Jurica.1742:

Oh, also to the guy that talked bad about PU right now -> PU is great, you have no right to tell people its a ‘bad’ build or too easy to play or that the people that play it are not skilled. Pyroatheist plays friggin PU condi, so does Osicat -> that doesn’t make them bad mesmers!
It is easy to pick it up and win a few 1v1s, though once you get past the newbie level of opponents, it really doesn’t matter that much what you’re running. If you aren’t a decent player, you will get wrecked badly by people!

~Monns

WvW is not PVP.

Wyrden.4713:

ehm, in teamfights at mostly middle points, if u got a condi pu mesmer there u literally wreck enemys. they cant atk u, then they wont able to wipe ur team.

Wow! I never thought about that! Sick advice, thank you, looks really hard and rewarding to pull off! And the stealth! Wow!

Fact: you cannot COUNTER thieves as a Shatter build, which is the only TRULY viable spec mesmers have in PVP.
Of course you can listen to PU users who say “hey I rek thieves all day long I use PU i never die 1v1 I’m pro”.

Your attitude is great for pvp though. Don’t join the filth, there’s already too much of it around.

In a prolonged fight (of about 1 minute, and in any case longer than 20 seconds) and with 30 in arcana, Sigil of Battle guarantees 6 stacks of Might(210 power, 210 condition damage), with a 70% uptime of 9 stacks of might(305 power, 305 condition damage). If you have Might Duration Runes (Hoelbrak, Pirate, Strength) you will gain 100% uptime of 9 stacks of Might. Of course, this is assuming no one corrupts, steals or removes your might.
Overall, I think that Battle is >>>> than any stacking sigil. Some situations favor the stacking sigils though, but they are really, really rare.

Feel Grenth’s icy embrace!

Necros, other thieves and Mesmers with Daze mantra are the best class to interrupt a BP→HS. Even rangers are somewhat decent, as SB#5 is pretty fast.
All other rupts are not reliable, unless you PREDICT their combo before they even drop the BP.

Even with a 2/2/6/2/2 build with greens you would be fine in WvW, as long as you take PU traits

My Koi Cakes

Energy, Leeching, Purity/Generosity are all great for Condi Engis.

What game mode are you talking about?

Tachii.3506:

Zord.6130:

Asomal.6453:

Don’t know what’s your definition of “counter” to S/D, so i’ll just post some hard match-ups:

• Any x/P thief
• Condibomb builds
• Bunker Engie
• D/D Elementalist
• Medi Guardian
• MM Necro

Hell, I’d rather fight a Hambow than any of those specs, when I’m playing S/D

Not a single one of those specs truly counters an SD.
Killing Hambows kitten is ridiculously easy.

Do tell more. How is it “ridiculously easy”?

Avoid Earth Shaker, Backbreaker, Pin Downand Arcing Arrow", all of which are easy tells.
Only problem is Hammer #4 but you only need to use your Stunbreaker for that. You can also swap to SB when they are on Hammer and kite until they use Hammer #4 in vain.
Unless the Hambow is extremely good, they won’t even touch me when I am DP. And if they have Zerker Stance on CD, it will take between 20-30 seconds to kill them(depending on how many Endure Pain they have). I don’t even need to leave the point if they don’t use zerker stance.
Hambow is ridiculously easy to fight in 1v1. Every profession with enough DPS and dodges should not have problems with Hambows.
Hambows are a noob check in PvP: if you are having problems with them, you need to get better.

Tooltip fixes.
?
?
?
More tooltip fixes (the ones when Moa Morphed were really needed)
Additional Crafting Discipline slot for 800gems

I had been told this was going to be a “decent” patch in terms of content. Guess this is where this game is going though.

This is what this game needed

No it doesn’t. Signet is fine as it is now.

Glad that PU traits are still banned in 2v2s. Looking forward to the 2v2 stream!

AgentChaos.4932:

i am the only platinum in my guild, definitely a l2p issue here

Everyone above gold rank is just a zerger , glad you told us what we already knew.

Eles need some counters. They’re already too much faceroll in this meta