Guild Wars 2

sirflamesword.3896:

bhagwad.4281:

Yes they do. Try pitting a team of r50s against a team of r10s and tell me how it goes. It’s a myth that ranks don’t mean anything. I would any day prefer to have higher ranks in my team compared to lower ranks. Anyone who has PvP’d for a decent amount of time will tell you the same thing.

All you are saying is, this group of BAD r10s will lose to this group of REALLY GOOD r50s. Yes there is a HIGHER CHANCE the r50s are better because they have played longer, but I have seen some REALLY REALLY REALLY bad players over r50, and some really good players below 20. And plus this isn’t changing anything below r40…like honestly it still takes time to get there….

When that “higher chance” is something like 98%, it’s as good as certain. Simply put, you can’t be good if you’re just r10+. You don’t have the experience.

sendmark.4731:

The finisher just won’t be restricted to such a tiny number

That is the very definition of “devalue”. And calling them “farmers” is an unwarranted and ignorant insult. Their efforts need to be called out and rewarded. Like maybe….50 precursors per r70+ player. That’s just an estimate of what they’re worth.

sendmark.4731:

There is nothing special at all about playing constantly to R70+ other than time investment. The highest rated tournament players are mainly R50 or R60 at best, even though they have far more skill than the R70+.

The only thing special about being R70+ is having a ludicrious amount of free time and devoting it all to one game mode, and in some cases not even the competitive side of that game mode but hotjoin farming. What on earth is special or deserving a reward about this? It’s saying you don’t have to be skilfull at the game to get the best reward, just slave away for more hours in as no-brain an area as possible.

This is an MMO. We want to be rewarded for grinding and having loads of free time. It’s not super mario bros. The hallmark of an MMO is grind.

And yes – spending the time and doing the hard, hard work to grind to r70 is a feat of almost mythical proportions. It throws into insignificance the amount of work needed to get a “Legendary” weapon in PvE. And what reward do these gods of the game get for their dedication and unstinting loyalty and efforts?

They get to be thrown into the same bucket as people like me who’ve just reached the mid 50s.

Pchah.

Simon.3794:

They will add a new ladder where prestige belong

its like call of duty, level 55 10 prestige means nothing

only play competitve matches and earn a spot in the ladder means prestige.

i dont think anet want something you can grind in hotjoin to be something that represent dedication and prestige.

Despite the “hotjoin farm” argument, there are still only a tiny handful of people who have reached r70. You can’t devalue their efforts just because you can get ranks in hotjoin.

RoRo.8270:

Ranks do not equate to a better player just wanted to get that out there

Yes they do. Try pitting a team of r50s against a team of r10s and tell me how it goes. It’s a myth that ranks don’t mean anything. I would any day prefer to have higher ranks in my team compared to lower ranks. Anyone who has PvP’d for a decent amount of time will tell you the same thing.

sendmark.4731:

bhagwad.4281:

This is an MMO. That is exactly what grinding is supposed to be. And we like it that way. Why do you think people keep playing? The “fun” is in the grind for almost all of us.

1. GW2 is an mmo but has no reason to be ultra grindy as it is not subscription based.

2. ‘We’ is a tiny number of players, as evidenced by the less than 20 who actually have Dragon rank.

3. There will still be a lot of time needed to get dragon rank, let alone all the other achievements that can be had. Plenty of ‘grind’ for people to aim for even with this change. All it does is make that grind manageable for a bigger group of players – which is what every mmo aims for, pleasing the majority not the tiny minority.

PvP is filled with players well over r50. r50+ means nothing. Converting them all to r80 just devalues all the efforts of those few who have really slogged out their ranks.

Those who have reached r70 are special – make no mistake about it. They should be given ultra special treatment in accordance with their status in PvP. And now you’re saying that a person like me barely into the mid r50+ is going to be the same as them? I don’t deserve that. They don’t deserve that. They deserve much, much better. Even awarding them legendaries wouldn’t come close to cutting it.

What is their reward for their hard work and toil? Some champ bags and boxes?

sendmark.4731:

It’s a great move. Dragon rank should take a lot of playing, which it still will do, however it should be achievable for more than just no-lifers.

Ultimately grinding take no real skill or brain, so it should never be seen as a huge accoldate or reserved for a small number of players.

This is an MMO. That is exactly what grinding is supposed to be. And we like it that way. Why do you think people keep playing? The “fun” is in the grind for almost all of us.

This is one of the worst moves I’ve ever seen. I don’t understand it. Do they not value the hard work that those who have reached r70+ have put in to feel special? Now they’re saying that people like me who’re just mid 55+ will be the same as them?

It’s like having your entire savings for the past year thrown into the garbage.

Cush.4063:

Horrible analogy. A good analogy regarding PvE and PvP would be boosting a rank 1 player to 80 or something along those lines although 80 in PvP is much less achievable. But in that regards, I would love there to be no ranks in PvE and everyone at 80 since in PvE your level is actually a time gate to better content while in PvP you’re not time gated between anything regarding rank. So rank in PvE is much more important while rank in PvP is meaningless. You’re rank on the leader board should be the one shown. Rank is just a way for chappy players with no skill to feel good about themselves while people who are actually good can boast about their leader board rank and don’t give a rats kitten about their number rank.

I suspect you might be one of those individuals who feel that rank means nothing. In which case I invite you to pit your r10+ team against my r50+ team. Good luck.

But you haven’t explained why this is a bad analogy to start with, so I’m not sure that you actually disagree.

Serdoc.7261:

This post is lol.

How dare ANet make high ranks realistically achievable!?
What an OUTRAGE!!!

So you’re ok if Anet gives everyone with 100g a legendary “to make it more achievable”? And don’t get stuck up on the figure 100g. Understand the sentiment behind the post.

draven.4796:

‘You listened to us and now you’re telling us that a r55+ player will get the same treatement as an r70+ player?? You’re going to make rank points meaningless! Everyone can reach level 80.’

Couldnt they before?

There isn’t a single PvP r80 player in existence yet.

JinDaVikk.7291:

Wait for it… wait for it…. Nerf….

AR nerfed woot.

We love you grouch.

What did they say exactly? The streaming speeds were horrible and I couldn’t watch most of it.

Doesn’t Youtube offer streaming options as well? I can barely view anything on Twitch.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Havent rank points in spvp been increased or am I trippin?

Edit: Posting this reply in the OP

They’re going to boost everyone r55+ to r80. A PvE example would be:

Everyone who has 100g in their bank account now automatically gets a legendary weapon.

Because you know…legendaries were too tough to get and if you have 100g you must surely deserve one. As for those who went through all the toil to actually craft a legendary old style…sorry! You get nothing for your special efforts and you have to stand around while people who put in 10% of your effort get the same rewards as you.

They’re going to boost everyone r55+ to r80. A PvE example would be:

Everyone who has 100g in their bank account now automatically gets a legendary weapon.

Because you know…legendaries were too tough to get and if you have 100g you must surely deserve one. As for those who went through all the toil to actually craft a legendary old style…sorry! You get nothing for your special efforts and you have to stand around while people who put in 10% of your effort get the same rewards as you.

The reasons why we wanted to keep ranks around was so that we could distinguish the players who’d spend huge amounts of time and sweat in sPvP from the rest. This was why we had protested against your move to remove ranks.

You listened to us and now you’re telling us that a r55+ player will get the same treatement as an r70+ player?? You’re going to make rank points meaningless! Everyone can reach level 80.

If this is what you’re going to do, please go ahead with your original plan and remove rank points entirely but allow us to retain our rank finishers so that those who are at a certain level always have some recognition of our special efforts.

But please…don’t do this. I have spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours in PvP slogging to get rank points and get better finishers than everyone else. You’re just devaluing all my hard work for the past two years.

Don’t do it….please. I beg you.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Ultimately, the rank levels in PvP were out of line with all other forms of progression in this game, on the same level as the ultimate xxx from WvW. Now they’re being changed to make sense in the perspective of GW2 achievements, not GW1 achievements.

When push comes to shove, they’re kittening off maybe 20 people with this change. They don’t care about your tears, this is for the greater good.

I’m pretty sure they care about the complaints of their loyal playerbase. They’re not bad people. They realize that blood sweat and tears need to be rewarded.

Given the fact that PvP ranks were the only way to distinguish yourself as special, it makes no sense for them to remove that reward. I can personally say that I will find no more reason to play if a 70+ player is not given more special treatment than kitten player.

All my hard work has essentially been for nothing. Hundreds upon hundreds of hours slogging to get ranks washed away into nothing.

Chase.8415:

bhagwad.4281:

The problem is this. Ranks were our reward for playing PvP almost exclusively for 2 years. Now they’ve devaluing that reward. Why is that so hard to understand?

Because they don’t want people having to spend almost 2 years exclusively to get rank 80?

They stated that when they were going to remove PvP ranks entirely.

1. They also said that we would be able to keep our existing rank finishers so that those of us who have slogged for high ranks wouldn’t get shafted. This shows they realize that ranks were a reward.

2. The community spoke out against it and they changed their tak. And your point is what exactly?

The problem is this. Ranks were our reward for playing PvP almost exclusively for 2 years. Now they’ve devaluing that reward. Why is that so hard to understand?

Belzebu.3912:

From where did you get those numbers?
It was said that a small % will get into dragon rank, it looks like not even every current phoenix ranked players will get into dragon after update.

He got it from a direct dev comment.

Or, introduce new finishers and let us keep our existing ones so those who’re currently 50+ will always have that token that we worked so hard for to distinguish us from everyone else.

Please Anet, tell me that was a joke comment. You can’t, can’t be serious!

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Mike.4830:

Grouch can you give a vague idea of who will be future dragons (60, 70+)??!?
ALSO with the change to jewels, will I still be able to run soldier zerker, or carrior rabid or whatever?

Everyone in the upper mid 50’s and up will become a Dragon!

Not sure if serious or sarcastic…If serious, it’s badly shafting currently very high ranked players. If real, I’m 51 and will be within striking distance of dragon. But I feel sad for those guys who’re right now 70+. They ground out all those tourneys to distinguish themselves. And now they’re just gonna be dragon like everyone else?

Why not have unlimited ranks instead of stopping at 80 then? Just keep going and going.

Really, really hope that this was a sarcastic quote.

I think the post suggests that our existing ranks will change to become something higher. Since they said:

“for a very small percentage of players, we’d like to congratulate you on becoming Tyria’s first group of dragons!”

it means my current r51 is slated to become higher. Yoohoo! Shark finisher, here I come

Though I kind of liked the endless PvP progression. Now if a person reaches dragon rank, they might as well stop playing PvP

I’ve seen so many people saying “I’ll hold close”…only to get decapped by a decap engi. Unless you have stability uptime like a warrior or guardian, or you have ample CC like a necro who can condi bomb a decapper, or it’s a map like foefire with large points or like kyhlo where you can stand against the rails, please don’t call yourself a bunker.

Otherwise openly tell your teammates “I can’t hold close if a decapper comes”. Be honest. There are plenty of useful roles you can fill. That way a team can decide on a better bunker fulfilling the above qualities. Or roll a decap engi themselves.

Edit: The reason for this post is I was in a kyhlo match with two engis on each team. I assumed that they had a decapper and asked who could defend close. One of the engis said he would hold close and while an engi is not a bunker, I assumed he would hug the rails or something to prevent the decap long enough for help to arrive.

A short while into the match, I found our point capped by the decap engi with a useless 1v1 going on at close. Even when our guardian joined, the decap engi was still on point. I asked how it happened and our engi replied “Decapper. It happens”. No it doesn’t! There are builds to counter decap engis. They have to be used!

I was so kittened, I logged out and rerolled my own decap engi, ran to close and had the point neutral within 10 seconds. Of course, capping it would take a much longer time, but then I was able to decap their node so it balanced out.

But their lead was still too much. And all because a person said they could “hold” close when they couldn’t.

Thanks for the ideas people!

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

hmmm starting and maintaining a homely friendly casual guild (mostly consisting of local players in my home country) since 3 days head start, almost everyone gets along nicely with one another etc.

that’s the awesome reward for me.

gold can’t buy that.

I can understand that. However, I’m looking for something more tangible for me to waste time on. Basically a worthwhile carrot to keep me playing. I’m thinking achievement hunting maybe?

For various reasons, I’ve decided to stop gold farming. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like sweet fat carrots to work towards. You can just buy a legendary off the TP so there’s not much that’s “legendary” about it.

So question – what awesome rewards can you not buy with gold? One thing I like is my PvP r50+ rank that can’t be bought. I also like my mini Liadri. But I have time to kill in other areas of the game as well.

So what in your opinion, are the awesome rewards can can’t be bought with gold or $$?

No one should ever afk for any reason. It’s disrespectful to your teammates.

This has got to hurt right?

Mythoryk.7984:

bhagwad.4281:

Mythoryk.7984:

There is literally no experienced PvP player who will agree 1v1 dueling is a form of PvP.

You can’t be serious. Of course dueling is a form of PvP. What do you think “PvP” stands for? Push vs Pull?

Mythoryk.7984:

You watch one person, and react to their actions. That takes literally 0 skill, whatsoever.

I think you just defined the meaning of skill.

Sure, it’s PvP in the sense that it’s a player versus a player… It’s NOT PvP in the sense of what Guild Wars has always considered PvP.

And… absolutely not. Skill is protting without your party window open (GW1). Skill is Power Blocking RC and Diverting infuse within 3 seconds (GW1). Skill is having complete field awareness while still bunking 3v1 and calling offensive tactical calls from a defensive position. Skill is NOT standing in front of another player and pressing skills to make their HP lower than your HP… I’m sorry… it’s just not.

I believe this is what you said: “You watch one person, and react to their actions.”

That is not the same as just “standing in front of one player and pressing buttons”. It implies in fact, all of the examples you’ve given. Like using Psychic Instability to knockdown someone when they use a key skill. Like using diversion to delay a monk’s healing skill.

Person A uses skill = Action
Person B uses skill to interrupt A = Reaction

Please explain to how your statement “You watch one person, and react to their actions. That takes literally 0 skill” is in conformity to your examples displaying exactly said actions and reactions?

If that is not “watching a person and reacting to their actions”, I don’t know what is. We don’t appear to be speaking the same language.

Mythoryk.7984:

There is literally no experienced PvP player who will agree 1v1 dueling is a form of PvP.

You can’t be serious. Of course dueling is a form of PvP. What do you think “PvP” stands for? Push vs Pull?

Mythoryk.7984:

You watch one person, and react to their actions. That takes literally 0 skill, whatsoever.

I think you just defined the meaning of skill.

Mythoryk.7984:

It’s a waste of time.

Every MMO is a waste of time. What do you expect? Productivity?

Mythoryk.7984:

Again, it ALWAYS comes down to Build Wars. Not skill.

There is literally no experienced PvP player who will agree with this.

All this fear about thieves/mesmers being the only ones going around dueling is absurd. Besides, anyone who willingly enters a fight with these classes knows what they’re doing. If you think you can’t fight a thief….don’t! There are plenty of others you can. Just because you have a problem with a thief doesn’t mean the rest of us don’t know how to kill one.

And just like any duel in the mists, rules will be laid down, time limit, areas of demarcation etc. Has anyone seen youtube videos of duels? You’re polite, you /bow, there’s no stomping, and duels are confined to an area.

This is like saying “Oh, you can never kill a decap engi 1v1. Hence dueling sucks!” Yeah right. No one will continue to fight a decap engi once they know what they’re doing. And there are some guardian/warrior builds that are pretty impossible to kill while they themselves do no damage.

You will not see duels involving these builds. People are not crazy.

The “oh, only thieves and mesmers will duel” is nothing but FUD.

I think there’s a fundamental paradigm difference here. Those against a dueling mode in the open world are terrified of random people trolling them saying “1v1 me bro” or whatever. Right now, you can’t 1v1 easily, so refusal to go ahead for dueling cannot be construed as loss of face. This is something they want to avoid because it puts pressure on them to ignore someone thinking that they’ve lost face.

Those in favor of dueling however, see it as a light hearted way to have fun with friends , enjoying the scenic backdrop, being able to casually take a minute or two out away from the crowd so that you don’t have to endure the mind numbing boredom of waiting for an even to start.

These are completely two irreconcilable way of looking at things. Those against dueling need to realize that refusing to duel is not shameful or whatever. Or some may want to realize that losing a duel means nothing.

We can have a “report” option for people who go around challenging others to duels. Or something like that to send feedback to other players that this guy is a kitten.

Imbune.5497:

I keep hearing ‘dueling is something to do while waiting on an event’…well, I guess pleasant, polite conversation is a lost art now?

This is an MMO. The whole reason to play an MMO is to get away from real life and social situations. Why do you want to do dungeons? We should all just sit around in LA and talk

When I play my decap engi, I want classes to have less stability.

When I play some other class, I think “yay for stability!”

Let’s put this another way. Repeated CC is OP. With warriors able to chain it together so often, everyone runs out of evades and stability is the counter.

You want less stability access? Reduce CC proliferation first.

Simon.3794:

go go go, get dyes now

I got loads of dyes getting rid of my crafting mats before the glory removal . And what’ll I do with gold in PvP anyway?

I stopped PvE’ing 5 months ago and have accumulated 184 laurels that I can’t spend. It doesn’t make sense to earn a reward in PvP that you can’t use in PvP!

Please…give me something nice I can purchase with my laurels in the game mode that I play exclusively with.

I also suggest that in dueling mode, you can’t fall below 500 health. So no mess of being “downed” or killed or ressed, or taking armor damage or whatever. This would also save people from the psychological humiliation of being stomped – a very big point when dealing with open world PvP IMHO.

This game has awesome scenery. Wouldn’t it be even more awesome to find exotic dueling spots? Like at the topmost mountain of the Shiverpeaks! Or the background of the pink sunset in Fireheart rise. Or dueling in pools of lava with only a few safe spots. Or underwater in Timberline falls where it’s so clear and gorgeous.

Taking it one step further…imagine death matches in dungeons. Okay I’m getting carried away now.

Please Anet. Give us an excuse to enjoy your maps…

Taku.6352:

Most likely Desolation. Seems to be running around the clock.

Thank you very much! I found the train in Desolation

What’s the best EU server to get on champ trains in Frostgorge?

glaphen.5230:

bhagwad.4281:

Decap engi counters MM. Hard. MMs have no stability. What’s the point of having a close point bunker who can’t stay on point?

Wow broken can fight broken, too bad minions can block Overcharged Shot and flesh wurm will teleport you back on. They also do only physical so they can hurt through Automated Response.

Just one teleport back…nothing much to write home about. And with solid regen, protection uptime, constant knocking back and blinds and AoE explosions and 3 second blocks and perma cripple, and perma swiftness, no reasonably decent decap engi ever has to worry about a MM.

Decap engi counters MM. Hard. MMs have no stability. What’s the point of having a close point bunker who can’t stay on point?

No clue. The rank up chests also give PvE greens. Why? It’s like getting PvP armor and weapons while running dungeons. Who gives a crap about game modes you’re not playing in?

Karizee.8076:

EotM (20g hr under good commander) and karka shell farming (10g hr) in Southsun are the latest hotness.

“Edge of the Mists” right? I don’t know much about it since I’ve been out of the scene for so long, but isn’t that some kind of PvP thing? There’s PvE content in it as well?

And are there karka shell trains that one can join?

I’ve been PvP’ing exclusively for the past 6 months and the last thing I remember was doing champ trains during the time the queen’s gauntlet arena was taking place. Today I thought I’d just while away a few minutes relaxing in Frostgorge like I used to chasing down champs, but when I went there it was empty.

Are people doing something else now for easy gold that doesn’t require teamwork or commitment?

Kouryuu.4213:

I always wondered why there was such a kitten for rewards and stuff. I miss the good old days when you played for fun, for competition, for self improvement.

OP, you’re right. Older games had no ingame rewards/incentive.

To be honest, I’m really surprised gw2 pvp failed. It’s wonderful to play. I guess it was the lack of tools for the community to create the competitive side, like other games had or got through modding. Shame MMO’s arent moddable. That may have been a saving grace.

There’s still a chance for gw2 to take off as an esport, really there is, cause all you need is a solid game and a community built up around it. Then the right person needs to step in and boom.

After having about a year break, it’s good to see gw2 still coming along. It’s slow but it’s still going, games competition keeps going for years. How many old games are still played competitively? No reason why gw2 can’t be one of them. Even if it’s scene is on the small side.

Older games were not MMOs. An MMO is a fundamentally different type of game. The objective is not the game per se (though if the gameplay is fun, that’s a huge bonus naturally), but character progression. To get stronger. To look better. To build something. And that’s what rewards do in one way or another.

Guild Wars 2 is an MMO. Not Super Mario Bros.

sonic.7592:

Locuz.2651:

bhagwad.4281:

I disagree about not focusing on rewards. Rewards are the incentive and more difficult rewards are statements of time invested, hard work, and skill.

So without rewards, 90% of people will stop playing. It doesn’t matter what the carrot is as long as it’s difficult to achieve, offers progression, and is publicly visible.

Agree with this. We have to keep in mind that this is an MMO and not a moba. MMO players are typically very loot driven.

I dont think there is anything negative about having a good reward structure.

And here I disagree. Loot driven are PvE player, but not PvP Player. A focus on rewards would only pull some PvE player who only play for dailys and then leave. But with these player, you won’t create a competitive PvP community. But I think, there are so many people out there (especially from GW1) who are waiting for more competition.

Maybe Anet should watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjZYMI1zB9s

I think, they truly show what drives passion. And it’s not the rewards.

Of course, rewards are not bad. But in my opinion, they should only be a “nice to have” feature. But when I read this forum, I see too many people demanding for better rewards and Anet thus believes that only rewards would help to make sPvP more popular.

I’m a GW1 PvP player and I used to play for rewards too. It’s not that it wasn’t fun by itself. It’s just that the carrot is the fun as well. Without the rewards I would not have played GW1 PvP.

The same is true of GW2. People are making an arbitrary distinction between PvE and PvP players whereas the truth is that we want people to play both modes. And after all, this is an MMO where the reward structure is key.

Bottom line: Just “fun” is all well and good. But that’s not the reason why we play an MMO. An MMO demands progression. It demands getting the newest and greatest skins, armor/whatever. Even the meagre ranks rewards are at least something.

Trust me – without rewards, the entire PvP playerbase will vanish. There’s no distinction between PvE and PvP players. Why should there be?

+569 Vitality
+569 Toughness
+798 Healing Power

PvP Bunker’s Jewel

Frenk.5917:

Check the picture, guys: how is it possible he has 7 skills on the SAME EXACT cooldown?

7 different skills on a 0.2 cooldown. The necro wasn’t referring to his build, but to that.

Knockback, or whatever. Check out the animation. It’s pretty easy to see I’ve been knocked around. I might even have done it to myself with overcharged shot. There’s no debuff icon on the bar when that happens.