Guild Wars 2

Swagginator.3246:

rank points was never something that motivated us to spvp. thought anet was focused on how to motivate players.

Speak for yourself. Rank points motivated me. Without them, I would never play PvP since there’s no other sense of progression. I’ve almost hit r50 and I would be kittened if others got it much more easily than I did.

Rewards – they are what motivate us to keep playing an MMO.

Dahkeus.8243:

I think it depends a bit on where you’re aiming to bunker. If you’re bunkering mid and assist in team fights a lot, then it’s hard to beat a good Guardian since they have so many tools to cleanse conditions, grant protection, and rez downed allies.

However, if you’re focusing on bunkering a node by yourself, then a bunker engi can be a pretty solid choice since they have so many knockbacks to decap or undo decaps.

Personally, I prefer Guard.

Actually the key to a node bunker is stability uptime – which the engi doesn’t have great access to. As a decap engi myself, I’m very susceptable to knockbacks. Luckily, I just need to get them off the point for 4 seconds which is easy.

As a decap engi, I have the most problems removing guardians with ridiculous stability uptimes – especially with consecrated ground. I can almost always decap from a warrior even with signet or rage and lyssa runes and balanced stance – especially if I’m running mines with boon stripping.

Cue people saying “But rank doesn’t matter”.

Scoffs

Yeah right.

Larger points will break decap engi.

Veto’d.

silvermember.8941:

Rank has no real value or meaning. The fact that you seem to think it does says more about you than it does about them. I suspect the reason you seem to think it does it due to teh fact that the definition of rank isn’t being applied properly in guild wars 2.

They should just change it to level and then make rank mean your standing relative to someone else.

Rank surely means something. All things being equal, knowing nothing other than the rank, I would always choose an r50 over an r30. And I’m sure it’ll be the right choice the overwhelming majority of the time.

+1. It’s a ridiculous mechanic that you have to find innovative ways to work around. Regardless of the fact that some people manage to do it, it’s still extremely unbalanced when you’re alone against a thief. I have no idea what Anet was thinking when they designed the class this way, but it’s too late (I think) to do anything about it now.

Amplifier.1704:

bhagwad.4281:

Lupanic.6502:

you can keep an eye on close but it means often you stay on close doing nothing. Only the mesmer can join a fight and port back in time to get on close.

Or stray far enough that you can see when an enemy will be approaching. Like the ledge on kyhlo, or the part peeping over the graveyard in foefire, or staying at the “stillness” spawn point in temple.

You need not just sit at close. You can move far away enough, but never so far that another enemy member’s distance to close is less than yours.

A thief pops stealth at the middle of kyhlo, makes a few ports and even if you could see him on the way he will still get the decap. Even without stealth he has a good chance, especially if he uses shadowstep. And then you cry to the teammate who lost it?

Obviously you have to take circumstances into account. But this situation is no fault of the person guarding close. But if a thief caps it and the person guarding close is happily doing something else, then yeah they deserve to be yelled at.

Lupanic.6502:

you can keep an eye on close but it means often you stay on close doing nothing. Only the mesmer can join a fight and port back in time to get on close.

Or stray far enough that you can see when an enemy will be approaching. Like the ledge on kyhlo, or the part peeping over the graveyard in foefire, or staying at the “stillness” spawn point in temple.

You need not just sit at close. You can move far away enough, but never so far that another enemy member’s distance to close is less than yours.

DanyK.3842:

This is true to a certain extent, however say I’m the ranger guarding close and see a decap engi coming to me. Depending on map I have multiple options:
Stay on point and laugh because I have a little piece of wood that keeps me on point despite the engi’s best effort to spam cc on me.
Leave the point and:
If there is 4 people of the enemy team fighting over close I can move to mid and tell someone to push far from the midfight or run far myself.
This is just 1 example and there are many more, e.g a 1 0 4 split from the enemy or a push with guardian involved.

Fair enough. All I’m saying is that as the person on close, you need to alert the team if a new strategy is needed. Not go like “Oh, close is lost? Lemme go recap”.

Yes. Because losing the match is very often less important than losing a 1v1. In a team, you’re never sure of how much you contributed. In a 1v1, it’s all you baby. Forget team balance. It should_only_ focus on 1v1s because it’s far more satisfying.

For future reference, whenever you type into chat “< close”. It means the following:

1. You will cap close
2. You will ALWAYS keep an eye on close
3. It is your job to KEEP it capped.
4. If there are too many inc, you HAVE to call for help BEFORE you lose the point
5. Whatever else you’re doing (if anything), you must never move so far away from close that you can’t reach it before the enemy does and call for help if needed.

If you can’t perform these functions, don’t say that you’ll keep close. Whatever happens elsewhere, close is the best chance of getting reliable points. It’s worth spending one person over exclusively (even if they do other stuff in the meantime).

It’s an important job – a critical job. I understand if you want to “get into the fight” or “can’t always keep an eye on it” or whatever. Then SAY so at the start of the match and that important job can go to someone else.

I have to admit I can’t understand this. On just about every match I’ve had, the team with the best bunkers wins. At most I think we can have one zerker thief to take down decap engis.

Do we want to win or not? Stop running anything that can’t hold or decap a point and you’ll win the majority of your games!

I enjoy PvP because I like the progression of rank. I’ve almost got my bear finisher now and I feel good about that. Particularly when ranks are removed and there’s no way for anyone else to get it . Also, it get a lot of freedom to try out new builds with new gear – something that’s not very easy in WvW since you have to slog to get the best gear.

But I have to admit – without the progression, I wouldn’t PvP. I feel good knowing I have skill, but it’s not enough. On the other hand, if I do well in WvW I don’t get any easily recognizable badge, gear, or whatever.

I’ve been avoiding WvW for precisely that reason – no progression. Whereas PvP gives me a very real sense of that.

Chicago Jack.5647:

bhagwad.4281:

And what if they have a bunker on their close as well as mid?

If they have a bunker afk on their home, then you can get a numbers advantage at mid – assuming your home defender knows how to rotate.

But that’s what I’m saying. I repeatedly get people on my team who can’t take down bunkers even with a numerical advantage. They just say “Forget mid. There’s a bunker there”. As if that gives the enemy a god given right to permanently claim a spot.

It doesn’t. And there are builds that can take bunkers down or decap the point. All I’m saying is that people should familiarize themselves with those builds.

Hype.8032:

If this is a whining thread about PUGs then really dude… it’s a PUG go smash some skulls and have fun. If it’s a coordinated team with voice-chat then you should be yelling at them instead of making random forum threads.

I’ve had much more success with outside point strats when the opponent team bunkers down mid hard anyways.

And what if they have a bunker on their close as well as mid? We can’t design our play to tip toe around bunkers only taking the scraps they deign not to stand not. We should be able to counter them. And there are builds for that.

KarsaiB.9475:

bhagwad.4281:

My rabid condi mesmer with runes of the undead has no problem dealing with thieves. My zerker phantasm build can kill them too (depending on whether they get the drop on me though).

No one cares about your dumb wvw duelling spec, you’re in the wrong forum.

wvw? I don’t do that. What are you talking about?

My rabid condi mesmer with runes of the undead has no problem dealing with thieves. My zerker phantasm build can kill them too (depending on whether they get the drop on me though).

Spooko.5436:

decap engis are bunkers, and those other things u mentioned only have a chance at working, sooooooooooooooooooo

Sorry what?

Decap engis are the kings of…well, decapping! With minefield also removing 5 boons (6 actually) every 20 seconds or so, it’s the best build for removing a bunker from position.

In fact, a decap engi is a pretty bad bunker due to the complete lack of stability. And necros usually eat guardians for breakfast. But anyway, run a decap engi if you want to displace stuff and get irritating guys off points.

Spooko.5436:

I wish I knew about the elite builds that completely counter a bunker 1v1, everytime allday erryday.

must be some next level stuff

In my opinion, a terror necro that can convert boons into conditions (especially stability into fear) and a decap engi are two of the best counters to bunkers. Also, some thieves might just be able to DPS them down…

BlackBeard.2873:

If they have a bunker that is just going to stand on mid and not help out in any other fights, its usually better to just leave them and then win 5v4 on all the other points. Eventually you can either 2v1 and take down the bunker, or force him somewhere else and get the free-cap after he leaves.

The mid point is usually centrally located with easy access to the other two (like on kyhlo or foefire for example). Holding or having people on it it gives the team a mobility advantage to redeploy forces to wherever necessary.

Just ignoring mid and letting the enemy sit on it all day is giving up a valuable piece of real estate.

I’m tired of being in teams where no one knows how to take down a single bunker (usually at mid). Discuss your strategy in advance and have at least 3 bunkers of your own or someone like a decap engi (maybe even two) who will be able to neutralize a bunker’s effectiveness.

It’s ridiculous the way some teams will just not contest mid because they feel it’s a waste of time to try and get the bunker off. Trust me – you’ll save a lot of time and lose fewer matches if you can counter them yourself.

True. While I can kill thieves pretty nicely as a phantasm mesmer, I go into stealth myself. And that too because my phantasms can track thieves through stealth and screw them as soon as they become visible.

Finally after thousands of matches on my Mesmer, my decap engi propelled me into the soloq leaderboards.

Much appreciated. Thank you.

Dancing Face.4695:

not all the warriors got stability like not all the classes got it as well. it’s the build diversity. you can have a stun break to balance your build, but surwly you can’t build you character just to counter a spamming knockback broken profwssion

I think a warrior not having stability…well in my opinion it’s a poor choice of build. As was evidenced when he met a decap engi. I didn’t even break a sweat to cap the point all out. Normally I need to either wait out a warrior’s stability boons or remove them.

But this was just too easy. Opportunities don’t come along like this very often. I could hardly believe it!

Playing a decap engi, today I met a warrior on a point who didn’t have stability…

No

/ 15 chars

Kanto.1659:

Builds that don’t hurt just hurt the team because they will still die against focused fire but won’t even have taken some HP off the enemies to help the team.

Mathematically, if you manage to decap a point and live for just a few seconds, it’s a net benefit in points to the team considering that it takes 12 seconds to cap a point from scratch and the enemy team only gets 5 points when you die.

As a decap engi, I live a hell of a lot longer than a few seconds. Usually several minutes…and can live a nice long time even against two people on a decapped point. This is a massive boost in points for my team not just because I’m preventing their close from ticking, but because I keep one or more people engaged with me. And I do this repeatedly. All the while, our close is happily ticking away (unless the enemy has a decap engi too!)

Bottom line: Bunkers who can decap are priceless. Try having a team of 5 decap engis. You won’t need to do any damage, but you get all the points. gg.

Oh the sweet tears

Acandis.3250:

all they care about is winning

Are you serious? As opposed to what?

I love it too. My revelation came when as a mesmer close point holder, a decap engi came to continually contest the point. I realized there was no counter. Since then I’ve joined the bandwagon and haven’t looked back!

silvermember.8941:

Heezdedjim.8902:

Aren’t they making some big change to how rank works soon anyway?

No. Supposedly they are just gonna keep it since ppl are attacted to ranks and go with ladder or something. But there is not ETA so expect it between now and infinity.

I’m pretty sure they said they’re going to remove rank progression. Those who have reached a certain rank at that time will keep it along with the rank finishers they’ve earned. But you won’t be able to go further anymore.

Which is one of the reasons why I’m so eager to reach my rank goals before this change is made.

I’ve always wondered why this disparity exists. Some people like to play with their friends – good for them. I have no problems with that. But why should it provide them with better rewards? If we assume that rewards are handed out based on skill, then how does tPvP imply better skill? Skill at communicating?

Ultimately one can choose to play alone or with a team. Both are valid, so why the disparity in rewards?

But I love the idea of having two separate queues. That’s awesome and was much needed. I just think they should have the same rewards.

Edit: To head off the response “If you want higher rewards, form your own team”, in my opinion that’s an arbitrary distinction. Suppose Anet gave higher rewards to people who had 4 vowels in their name, you would hardly say “Just create a character with 4 vowels if you want higher rewards!” The point is not that team play is a distinction, it’s that it’s an arbitrary distinction.

Heezdedjim.8902:

bhagwad.4281:

Same with PvP. I want to reach my rank finisher so I can boost my ego. My problem is that low skilled players get rank points with the same speed as high ranked players. Skill counts for nothing. Unlike other modes of the game. I see no reason for this curious split to exist. PvP needn’t be placed on some hallowed pedestal.

You’re saying you want PvP to be like PvE. But it takes everyone on the PvE side the same number of hours, give or take, regardless of their “skill” to do any of the serious grinds. Why should it not take the same number of hours for any two PvP players to complete their grinds? That is, in fact, the entire design goal of all game systems in all games; to reward you more for spending more time playing, and to reward equal amounts of time invested equally.

The only real difference in any part of the game is not between “high skill” and “low skill” players, but between “high time” and “low time.” The former will spend more hours per week in game, and therefore will get their rewards in a shorter number of calendar days than other players. Other than that, all rewards are scaled to the expected number of hours needed to receive them, regardless of what you are doing.

You can be a little more efficient or fail a little less often in the PvE game if you’re more “skilled,” but on the whole it’s going to take just as many hours to get world completion, or run a raid instance, or kill a world boss, or do whatever else you want to do as everyone else who does it. The game is designed to ensure that is the case, in order to keep as many people as possible playing it for as long as possible. In PvE the time-gating is even more explicit; e.g., with raid lockouts, daily gating of laurels and dungeon path rewards, daily gates on top tier crafting, etc.

The only distinction is that in PvE everyone plays at the same relatively low skill level, because they all have to cross the same relatively low bar to win, and if you cross that bar — beating a fight, or finishing an achievement — then you get the same rewards as everyone else who passes that same bar.

In PvP, because you’re fighting other players, the bar for success is not fixed and isn’t low enough for everyone to pass in every possible match up. So they “fix” the problem of varying opponent difficulty by sorting players into tiers based on relative ability. The rating tiers, by design, are just there to ensure that everyone has to put forth the same amount of effort and spend the same amount of time playing in order to get the same rewards (same number of matches played = same average number of wins = same overall rewards, for everyone).

There is a small difference in that, in PvP, you can achieve a higher than typical win rate if you are one of the handful of players at the very top of the rating ladder; and for those few people progress will be a little bit faster because they can win more often than anyone else can consistently.

In that sense PvP actually does reward (extremely) high skill in a way that the PvE game in GW2 does not, and likely never will (at least, not as long as it lacks things like torture-mode feats of strength and “world firsts,” that other games use to reward higher “skill” and unique or “first” achievements in PvE).

_"But it takes everyone on the PvE side the same number of hours, give or take, regardless of their “skill” to do any of the serious grinds." _

But this is clearly not true. If I’m good, I can on an average finish a dungeon much faster than someone who isn’t. The better you are, the faster you get stuff in PvE. I can guarantee you that a well played warrior in a dungeon is far superior and preferable to a bad one. It can make the difference between 20 minutes and 1.5 hours.

I got my Liadri miniature after a hell of a lot of practice and with quite a bit of skill (if I may say so myself). It’s plain wrong to say that a skilled and unskilled player will be able to get the same rewards in the same time. Both will reach it eventually sure, but the time difference is huge. I mean really huge.

I’ve already given you the example of fractals that keep increasing in difficulty. There’s no low skill bar – it keeps going on and on. As do the rewards.

The better you are, the better rewards you should get. Come on – this isn’t such an alien or out of the way concept surely!

Heezdedjim.8902:

bhagwad.4281:

I’m afraid I don’t agree with the statement “The ‘bonus’ or ‘reward’ for having higher skill is . . . beating higher skilled opponents, and therefore being better at the game.”

Thirty+ million MOBA players would like a word with you.

And the PvE side of all MMOs works exactly this way. The marginal increase in power for each tier of advancement becomes smaller and smaller the higher you go, and the time needed to complete each tier becomes longer and longer, to the point where cresting the last 10% of the power curve takes more time than doing all the other 90% up to that point. This game is even more extreme in this respect than most games, when it comes to the extreme speed of early progress and the glacial pace of later tiers.

You seem to be comparing match rewards in PvP to raid or farm chests in PvE and just thinking that it’s unfair that you get “more” or “better” drops and currency from doing higher level raids or farming higher level mobs in PvE, but you get the same number of rank points per match regardless of your rating in PvP. But what you’re leaving out is the exponentially increasing cost of actual progression (getting something of any value to you with those rewards).

You can get to level 80 in a couple weeks, and then head straight to the TP and buy a full set of exotic gear for a pittance. So you can get in just days or weeks 90% of the total power (or 90% of the “best” gear) you are ever going to have in the game, no matter how long you play it. But grinding out a legendary (or two) and getting ascended gear will take you more time by an order of magnitude than everything else you do up to that point, and the increase in stats is negligible at best. The only substantial reward of doing those grinds is the rep you get from having done them, and the shiny things you get to wear that shows everyone that you did.

WvW also has a a wildly exponential grind to get to higher ranks and to max out abilities, which takes absolute ages to “max out” on either titles or abilities. In fact a huge segment of the upper level titles and achievements in WvW are so absurdly grindtastic that it is mathematically impossible for anyone in the game to have obtained them at this point (some on them, e.g., the “Yakslapper” title, are not even obtainable within the reasonably foreseeable entire future lifetime of the game).

The diminishing returns in PvE are at least as severe as anything in PvP, and on both sides the ultimate reward of doing these grinds is really nothing more than than access to more shiny things or fancy finishers, which are just more little goodies that let you show off your rep and prove to others that you did the grinds.

So by your standards the PvE side of the games is at least as punishing or “pointless” at increasing skill levels compared with PvP (and this is assuming that grinding higher level PvE content represents a higher level of “skill,” which is a debatable premise at best).

Oh no – the more difficult it is to crest that 10%, the greater the prestige. The idea however is that the better you are, the faster you can finish that “10%”. The goal of PvE for many people (including myself) is to show off. It took me ages to get my legendary. Shinies are the sole motivation for playing. Fun is (at best) a secondary motivation. I get fun from getting shinies. All skill, all builds are geared towards getting shinies more quickly.

Moral: Never underestimate the motivational impact of the shiny.

Same with PvP. I want to reach my rank finisher so I can boost my ego. My problem is that low skilled players get rank points with the same speed as high ranked players. Skill counts for nothing. Unlike other modes of the game. I see no reason for this curious split to exist. PvP needn’t be placed on some hallowed pedestal.

Heezdedjim.8902:

You’re basically complaining that the system is working exactly the way it is supposed to work. The “bonus” or “reward” for having higher skill is . . . beating higher skilled opponents, and therefore being better at the game.

Rising to your level of competence is the entire point of any ranking or rating system. In any perfectly even match up, the expected win/loss rate should be 50/50 for all sides, and the rewards will be balanced around that expected or typical rate. Winning more often than 50/50 means you’re underrated, and the outsize rewards only persist for the short period that it takes to get you up to the proper level.

The idea of the system is that everyone should arrive fairly quickly at a level where they achieve the expected win 50/50 win rate when they are matched against opponents of roughly equal skill (give or take a bit since match ups are never absolutely even, mistakes are made, and sometimes RNG or lousy teamplay tilts things for or against you).

And as pointed out above, laying down so you can lose in order to drop in rating will just mean that you give up as much in foregone rewards as you will gain on the way back up the ladder.

In any working ladder system, there is no steady state where you can consistently maintain a win rate > 50/50, nor should there be one (except maybe for the one guy in the world at the very top of the ladder who can beat everyone hands down, if he exists).

Oh, I agree. And my complaint is that the higher I go, the more rank points I should get. That way I still have 50/50 win ratio, but with more rewards as my skill improves.

I’m afraid I don’t agree with the statement “The ‘bonus’ or ‘reward’ for having higher skill is . . . beating higher skilled opponents, and therefore being better at the game.” No MMO works like this. Higher fractals give higher loot. More difficult bosses give better rewards. More difficult content rewards you more.

Tell a fractal player that the reward for their time and investment in working through higher fractals and dungeons is “just for the pleasure of beating hard content” and see what the response is. MMO developers spend a lot of time figuring out fair ways to reward people for getting better at the game.

Why should PvP be different? You can play for skill all you like – no one is stopping you. But this is a game and it’s perfectly reasonable to demand better stuff for being better. According to you, we need not even have any armor differentiation…just let everyone have whatever armor they want! Because hey – rewards are meaningless right?

People play for different reasons. You can play for fun, and I wish you all the best. But it doesn’t cut it for me. I need rewards. And I find it crazy that some people are telling others what they should be playing for.

Amplifier.1704:

bhagwad.4281:

But being the best player simply means I get bunched with even higher opponents next time once again keeping my win rate at 50%

There’s no benefit…no rewards…to being more skilled as far as I can tell.

You have to be THE best player, not just the best player of your team, best player of the game.

That advice is a bit…extreme isn’kitten I mean by definition there can be just one best player. So the game is made just for one person?

Amplifier.1704:

bhagwad.4281:

As I get better, I get matched against better opponents, but the rewards remain the same and I win 50% and lose 50%. Basically everyone gains rank points at pretty much the same rate regardless of skill which I think is completely ridiculous. The better you are, the more Rank Points you should get IMHO.

Anyhoo be that as it may I have a target of a certain number of rank points to reach and I want to reach it as fast as possible. For that, I need to drop down several tiers. Is there any way to do that efficiently and quickly?

To drop your MMR you have to lose, which means you won’t get the win rewards for a quite while. After you have reached your desired MMR you start playing normally and your MMR should start going up again, because you are matched up with less “skillful” players and you have higher chance of carry your team. Eventually you are at the same MMR and your win rate will be 50% again. That’s how it will eventually go.

TLDR; No way around it. To get the most rank points, simply be the best player and carry your team!

But being the best player simply means I get bunched with even higher opponents next time once again keeping my win rate at 50%

There’s no benefit…no rewards…to being more skilled as far as I can tell.

Dahkeus.8243:

bhagwad.4281:

As I get better, I get matched against better opponents, but the rewards remain the same and I win 50% and lose 50%. Basically everyone gains rank points at pretty much the same rate regardless of skill which I think is completely ridiculous. The better you are, the more Rank Points you should get IMHO.

Anyhoo be that as it may I have a target of a certain number of rank points to reach and I want to reach it as fast as possible. For that, I need to drop down several tiers. Is there any way to do that efficiently and quickly?

1) If you want rewards, go PvE. Rewards in PvP are pretty weak.

2) What’s the point in PvP if you’re not going to be competitive? The best PvP games are where you fight challenging opponents, learn, and improve. If you just want to stomp people, run hot joins.

We play for different reasons. I want to play only for rewards such as they are. I like the PvP rewards and that’s just the way it is. I don’t mind fighting more difficult opponents, but it’s not unreasonable for me to demand that I get better rewards for doing so as well.

It’s just common sense isn’kitten

As I get better, I get matched against better opponents, but the rewards remain the same and I win 50% and lose 50%. Basically everyone gains rank points at pretty much the same rate regardless of skill which I think is completely ridiculous. The better you are, the more Rank Points you should get IMHO.

Anyhoo be that as it may I have a target of a certain number of rank points to reach and I want to reach it as fast as possible. For that, I need to drop down several tiers. Is there any way to do that efficiently and quickly?

Eyia Hellhide.7320:

http://revolutionincoming.shivtr.com/forums – pure tPvP guild. By the way the leader is in your PvE guild, PK. And me too

Sweet! Thanks!

I’m looking for a guild where the members spend 90% (or more) of their time in PvP, so it’s easy to find people to tPvP with all the time. I’m currently r47, main a Mesmer and play around with an engi as wel…

Lupanic.6502:

If I see tournaments in twitch no decap engi team wins. If I play by myself soloQ rank ~300 I face a lot of decap engis and they all die in 1on1 situations.

It seems not to be a problem. If JinDaVikk.7291 never lose a 1on1 vs a warrior maybe he would not lose with a different build as well.

I watched sizer2654 twitch stream (thief) and he won 1vs2 against 2 hambows twice in a game. Doesn’t make the normal thief OP. So maybe the decap engi is not OP but some players are

I’m a pretty mediocre decap engi since I started only a few days ago. At first I died a lot (naturally), but now I’ve learned to put down healing turret and not detonate it all the time, I’ve learned to switch to toolkit and get my 3 second blok. I’ve learned to also put down box of nails to slow my opponents down, I’ve learned to just spam mines when at low health and no one can keep up with my healing especially since I have constant protection, regen, heal on mines and heal on toolkit, not to mention AR.

I was astonished today at how 1v1, no one could finish me off. I mean you’d think a guy with just 3k health would go down fast right? Nuh uh. The regen on this thing is amazing. And I just wait till my block is up again, my big ol bomb is recharged, my knockbacks are working and their DPS drops allowing me to heal up.

I’m not some excellent super player. But I can sure hold a point 1v1 now! My maths shows me that I just need to survive for a few seconds after decap without needing to actually cap the point to be a net benefit to the team even if I die immediately afterwards. Which doesn’t usually happen.

I love playing a mesmer. It’s my main and I’m good at it. I can play different builds – condi, dps, bunker…but nothing, I mean nothing comes close to this decap engi. With it I’ve been winning more matches than ever before. I won’t go back to mesmer as long as this strategy remains open to me because I have rank point goals to reach before they ditch it forever.

Unfortunately over the rank bonus weekend I was still learning how to play, getting nervous and all that, so I couldn’t take full advantage of the extra points

JinDaVikk.7291:

In-correct

You have to count the time taken from spawn to walk to far. 20 seconds.
But they are either on home anyways (not helping) or walking with you to it. Either way doesn’t matter.

Next you have to keep it contested for same amount of time it took to decap.
Then you have spawn timer – length to full cap point.
then it “ticks” every 2 seconds for 1 point. Not 3.

Good point about walking to far. Though I think everyone has to spend the time to get somewhere when they spawn so I doubt if it’s a significant difference vis a vis the effectiveness of anyone else in the team no matter what their spec is.

The time it takes to decap I think will be key and this is perhaps where the skill of the engi will come in. If you time it right, you can decap almost immediately. Guardians etc will take longer naturally due to stability uptime.

Then again, if it ticks every 2 seconds instead of 3, you need to keep it uncapped for only 10 seconds and not 15 to make up for the value of your death.

Each point ticks once every three seconds. A kill gives the enemy five points. So mathematically speaking, if a decap engi is able to keep the point decapped for more than 15 seconds they come out ahead on points even if they die immediately afterwards.

Since it takes around 12 seconds to cap a point from scratch, a decap engi merely has to keep alive inside the circle for 3 seconds after decap. Any additional people they draw to kill them are a bonus, but this is the absolute minimum.

So as a decap engi, if I run to far, contest the point and stay alive for three more seconds I’m having a net positive effect on my team if I die afterwards. No need to actually “convert” the point so to speak.

Is my maths correct?

Edit: I ask because I want to help my team (so as to win) as much as possible and right now the maths seems to favor a decap engi more than any other class even though I main a mesmer and love playing it. I’m not a particularly good decap engi, but I’m good enough to reliably knock people off point and hold it for much more than three seconds. I just want to know if I’m overlooking some other dominant strategy.

Edit: Apparently a point ticks every two seconds, not three. This means it has to be decapped for only 10 seconds and not fifteen and since it takes 12 seconds to re cap a point, any decap is worth it. The faster you decap though, the better chances you have naturally. This is probably where the skill factor comes in.

What’s the cheesiest of the cheezy decap engi build?

I’m sure there are many different strategies for each map. But here are something you CANNOT forget. Be assured your enemy won’t. At least for the following two maps.

Forest:
Kill the creature at the start. Just…kill it. Don’t wait for the person at close to finish the job because an enemy thief is going to come along and steal it when it’s low on health. Conversely, if you see your enemy hasn’t finished it off, you know what to do…

Silent storm:
Tranquility comes at 8:30. Do NOT forget it. If you think whatever you’re doing is more important….it’s not. If one person can stay overhead and get stillness, even better.

General:
Hold close. Unless you’re bunking far and succeeding, there’s no excuse to allow close to be contested or worse, belong to the enemy. You might have some stud strategy at mid, but remember – holding mid is useful only if you have another point. Logically, that point is close. Sometimes though, the enemy zergs close, in which case you can go around and sneakily decap far. But unless you have far secure, hold close. Your blood should boil if you look at close and see it getting contested.

Go forth and play better.

Hmm…so team arena gives double points. What if you lose in team arena? How much do you get then?

For me:

1. Warriors
2. Guardians
3. Necros
4. Engis

P.S: I play a Mesmer. I’m always a bit disappointed when I see another mesmer in my team…

Or at least put a little pop up notification that you can click whenever you want. Modal dialog boxes are so 20th century.