Guild Wars 2

Luke.4562:

Not really, desperate people tend to make desperate decisions.
It’s like following this mentality: “If they cheat why shouldn’t I do this?”… and if you think about it, that’s the logic, the way of thinking process that makes real wars keep exhisting.
Now in a PVP environment people aren’t so desperate like in a real context, but competition moves most kind of people really close to it.

Simply…
…It’s the way stupid people deal with the world.

It’s stupid only if a better way exists to reach the required goals. Since I play PvP to win and not just for the gameplay or to have fun, this is the most logical way to do so no?

If you think it’s stupid, perhaps you have a better solution? I’m willing to listen to a more rational choice.

style.6173:

Seems like odd logic. A decapper fighting a decapper. Wouldn’t one of them be a defender?

and yes, just joking around

As in…do to them what they’re doing to us. Their close point is usually undefended or has just one person/bunker so they’re able to focus all their efforts on mid and far with minimal investment into their close.

Playing decap allows me to change that balance. And sometimes I need to play decap to easily and quickly push an existing decapper of my capped close.

Edit: This is why every bunker needs to have huge stability uptime. I’ve seen rangers offering to defend close when they can’t hold out against a decapper.

Aberrant.6749:

I don’t see how this helps anyone other than a niche sPvP sub-community… and lets face it… the entire population of PvP is small to begin with.

I’m not opposed to it, but high priority? I mean… If I was some one’s boss and they came to me with that I would tell them yes on doing it, but no it’s not a top priority especially considering that you can already do it in a custom arena.

There are just too many other things which are far more important for this game that should be done before this.

a) PvP is an important part of GW2

b) This will enable even more people to get into PvP. Perfect for Anet who are trying to get more people involved in it.

So, I would say it’s as high a priority as the recent feature patch.

Because if I don’t the other team will. So many times I’ve had to log out and log back in with my decap just to counter another decapper.

This is just FYI for those who wonder why people play these builds. It’s the prisoner’s dilemma. Logical people making logical decisions.

Bart Weird.9671:

It’s funny how it’s always the same people creating threads over and over again
If you change finishers or create new ones and so on you achieve nothing in spite of continuing with the old system. People still get excluded for lacking experience or rank and players new to the game still have this infinite amount of time achieving an unreachable goal. We should concentrate on a new system of titles, since a champion title takes less thn a lvl up nowadays. I’d suggest a system which rewards team and soloq aswell as being a skilled player, so it actually shows your level and not how much time you have to grind. My suggestion would be getting 1 fame point per win in the top 200 of the leaderboard (can be eather solo or teamq) and new titles like rabbit of the arena (25wins) dragon of the arena (10 000wins). Those could be also applied retroactively for all the people who played on a high skill cap till now.

So you have the choice between:

a) Having no more progression goals for long term players who are the most dedicated PvP base (no tying in to the leaderboards), and

b) Having token goals to satisfy us which in no way impact the enjoyment of others in PvP

Are you saying you choose a) over b)? For what reason?

Nary Why Irk.8150:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

The problem with the rank 80 prestige system is that dragon finisher has already been given.

Is there anything more epic than the dragon in guild wars 2? I don´t think so.

It’s about perception. People will get prestige from that which is most difficult to attain. I think titles or finishers will easily fit the bill.

Uhtameit.2413:

bhagwad.4281:

Uhtameit.2413:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think you should just add some new ranks:

R90: Elder Dragon – /rank is an elder dragon, duh
R100: Favored of the Gods – /rank is a random god doing some random thing
R110: Dave – /rank is this: http://davepeck.org/img/davepeck/dave-peck-icon-big-color.jpg

The point of the rank changes is to make the final rank accessible, if you add more ranks then the changes are pointless.

But wouldn’t any long term goal for the current crop of r80s be inaccessible? That’s the point I’m trying to make. There will always be those who are somewhat the rest in terms of achievements and time spent. Do we do away with all long term goals for those individuals because they remain inaccessible to others?

Why? No one is being harmed are they?

I suggested to introduce new finishers while leaving the r80 accessible a few posts back, I think that kind of compromise is more likely to succeed than just offering to put some new ranks.

If I’m not mistaken, Anet feel there should be a sense of progression in PvP, hence the need for an accessible r80. Now if your proposals get in the way of that, they better be kitten convincing.

In your opinion, are you against all forms of long term rewards? (long term rewards meaning goals that even the highest current crop of players can aim for and essentially out of reach of most people).

Because if we both agree that progression is a good thing, shouldn’t those of us who are current r55+ have progression as well?

Uhtameit.2413:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think you should just add some new ranks:

R90: Elder Dragon – /rank is an elder dragon, duh
R100: Favored of the Gods – /rank is a random god doing some random thing
R110: Dave – /rank is this: http://davepeck.org/img/davepeck/dave-peck-icon-big-color.jpg

The point of the rank changes is to make the final rank accessible, if you add more ranks then the changes are pointless.

But wouldn’t any long term goal for the current crop of r80s be inaccessible? That’s the point I’m trying to make. There will always be those who are somewhat the rest in terms of achievements and time spent. Do we do away with all long term goals for those individuals because they remain inaccessible to others?

Why? No one is being harmed are they?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Long term goals aren’t a bad thing. Even after the re-balance, it will take the average player a very long time to reach 80 and will still be the long term goal for most people.

It’s important to have goals for different time commitments. Short term goal could be reward tracks or some skins. Medium term goals could be season rewards and a ladder. Long terms goals could be a legendary, rank 80 (for most people) or possibly multi-season rewards and yearly tournaments.

What kind of long-term rewards would people like to see? Maybe a rank 80 ‘prestige’ system is something to explore.

I think maybe titles for every say 15 level ups after 80? People have mentioned little colored finishers. Or if you don’t want rank ups to be the benchmark, the tournament games won. Something that others can see and that you can show as well without getting in anyone’s way.

I realize that 80 will be a long term goal for a lot of people. But…there are lots and lots of us that have hit that limit. Wouldn’t you want us to have something to look forward to after that? It doesn’t get in anyone’s way, allows us to be happy and (I think) should be fairly easy to implement. Isn’t that little bit of effort worth it for players who’ve stuck it out in PvP for so long? I’d like to think we’ve earned that much at least no…?

BLUna.7928:

bhagwad.4281:

Hasn’t this always been there? I was under the impression that the HotM was anyway a “megaserver” where everyone from the entire EU or NA region would be. I don’t think I’ve ever had an “overflow” in PvP.

Or am I not understanding the way this works?

The actual games themselves have always been region wide (tying in everyone that is queueing in either NA or EU) but the Heart of the Mists (the lobby you are in between games) was only people that were on your server up until this patch

Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up!

Hasn’t this always been there? I was under the impression that the HotM was anyway a “megaserver” where everyone from the entire EU or NA region would be. I don’t think I’ve ever had an “overflow” in PvP.

Or am I not understanding the way this works?

Over the past few days I’ve noticed a distinct and vehement opposition to the idea of long term goals in PvP. The obvious example of course is the ranking system which many people (with some justification) felt was too tedious. However, the ranking system was the only form of long term progression in the mode as opposed to PvE where you can get achievement points galore, gold, legendaries and so on and so forth.

Titles like “Champion Brawler” are nice, but are even more long term than ranks and doesn’t have any “mid paths” to boot. There’s no indication that you’re half way there, no steps. Another solution has been to implement different colors, more types of titles, minis etc etc.

But these titles will only become the “new rank” system. The problem is that I sense a very fundamental hostility to the idea of progression itself. The idea of a long term goal that you work for over the years. We have to face the fact that there will always be players who are far above the rest. And they too need something to reach towards. By definition, those milestones will always be far above what the rest of us can achieve.

Leaderboards are not a valid form of progression. It’s not “sticky” in the sense that your ranking can change from time to time and even go down completely. What we’re looking for is some form of constantly progressing long term goal. We have an umpteen number of them in PvE, but so far ranks were the only thing for us in PvP.

It’s not even as if these two are opposed to each other. We can have leaderboards and long term progressive goals. But the scenario has been portrayed as if it’s one vs the other.

So coming back to the basic question – What is the motivation behind all the opposition to long term goals in PvP? A unique finisher, a special series of titles…or even an infinite ranking system that never ends. What, I want to know, can the possible resistance be to such a concept when it has neither an impact on a player’s game or loot, nor gets in the way of their being recognized for their skill?

Get rid of rank points if you want. But give us some other form of progression that doesn’t get in anyone’s way. Unfortunately so many people seem to be opposing this basic concept itself and I don’t know why.

If I were to be uncharitable, I could pin it down to jealousy and not wanting some players to be “above the rest” by virtue of them having more time to spend in PvP. But why not? What is wrong with making us happy by giving us goals that reward the effort we put into the game? How does that come in the way of anyone’s enjoyment.

But I’m making no assumptions. I won’t assume bad faith. I’ll keep an open mind and stay responsive to the idea that there are better reasons than mere envy, or excessive egalitarianism.

What is the reason?

Today was the first time I heard about role playing. I wanted to try it out, so I went to the Piken server but wasn’t sure what to do. Is there a specific city that’s commonly used for interaction?

There are people who don’t like others to have any kind of reward for either matches won or time spent. In fact, these titles will just become the new ranking system. While I personally would love to have long term prestigious goals to work towards, you will have individuals screaming that these titles are “too hard to achieve” and the next thing you know, Anet goes and bumps everyone halfway through to the full title.

How we reached such a pathetic state of affairs I don’t know. There’s a kind of “social equality” mindset floating around where everyone is the same regardless of their efforts.

Ultimately I feel that many people seem to have a problem just knowing that someone has reached a unachievable (to them) goal. So they say “Ranks don’t mean anything”, while at the same time being vociferous supporters of the removal of ranks. Why? Because when it comes down to it, ranks do mean something – at least to them. Otherwise there would be no reason to remove it.

So if we have an achievement for really really high up players (like the 10,000 tournaments won achievement), they will then object to that, saying “It’s too hard. It should never be so far away” not realizing that those goals are the only things left to achieve for many of us.

So the issue is a deeper one. People don’t like to be reminded that there are others who have done way more than them, at the same time saying that they don’t care.

This sounds interesting. Going to Piken to see if I notice anything different. Are there any codes or behaviors to adhere to?

So when you guys go to a RP server, you talk to each other? As in, talk to random people? I’m just trying to understand. If I want to RP do I log in and stand around waiting for someone to come by to talk to? And do we talk to NPCs too? (probably not, but I don’t want to assume)…

This is a good post. I have just two things to say:

1. Higher ranked players like OE who are r70+ should not be shafted and get rewarded less than r55+ players when it comes to retroactive chests.

2. Any form of progression is cool. Whether it’s ranks or tourney wins or whatever. The idea is to always have a higher goal to reach. At no point should someone say “I’ve achieved it all. Now I have no more goals to reach and no more reasons to play”.

The problem with leaderboards and MMRs is that they’re temporary. You lose progression if you stop playing, or experiment with a new build and lose repeatedly. I think that’s wrong. Progression should be permanent. Else no one will want to do anything different. Rewards once given should not be taken away.

To this end, I think titles for new achievements will be awesome. But what is preventing people from making them the “new rank”? The fact of the matter is that there will always be people far, far ahead of everyone else. And they need goals as well. So those who’re below will face the same problem they’re facing now with ranks.

style.6173:

@OP:

The reality is that ranks should not be included in matchmaking. For matches it should be completely based on MMR and how well someone is playing.

The issue in general is that matchmaking does not work correctly (as you point out). That is due to two things: a broken leaderboard and a lack of players. The broken leaderboard means that positions on the ladder are incorrect which causes poor MMR.

The lack of players is an even bigger issue. Essentially ANET had to make a decision between waiting 15 minutes to start a match or to start a match more quickly but add in some players who do not belong in the game. They choose the latter.

ANET is really feeling the effects of their decision to remove rewards from PvP. Hopefully once the new rewards are in place on April 15, we will see an increase in participation. That, along will a ladder logic revision is what is needed.

I think they could have spread out the low ranked players a bit. I should have had some of the other team’s new guys and they should have had some of ours. That way we don’t wait 15 minutes for a new game and the match is much fairer.

As for MMR and ranks…I’m saying that there’s a powerful correlation between ranks and MMR. If not, then the assumption is that the screenshot is just coincidence – that those who are new just happen to have lower ranks. Do you think that is true?

From an earlier message:

Please are saying the Mega server system will spoil “role playing”:

I’m afraid I don’t understand. Could someone explain for those of us who’re uninitiated into something that sounds interesting? Don’t we all role play? What does it mean to “RP” exactly? Does it mean that everyone goes to Piken to…do what?

Does it mean you try and have storylines separate from the Living Story, or do you assign roles, dress like peasants etc? But what do you do? Do you still gather resources like platinum nodes etc?

I’m afraid I don’t understand. Don’t we all role play? What does it mean to “RP” exactly? Does it mean that everyone goes to Piken to…do what?

Does it mean you try and have storylines separate from the Living Story, or do you assign roles, dress like peasants etc? But what do you do? Do you still gather resources like platinum nodes etc?

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

funny how some rank 70+ players conflict each other what they want. those 2 to 4 rank 70+ players screaming that only them should reach rank 80 will get no support besides from them. and those who are thinking of other way they can be compensated have my support instead of this same people who are arguing and conflicting each other. i agree to what marvin, jose, and ostrich have said they need to be compesated more like extra chest and maybe unique titles or finisher. (seriously not all players cares bout how few other have extra cosmetic) but those who says rank 70+ players only one who will reach rank 80 should realize its for the good of many not just few. stop being selfish and greedy

I’m r52 and I agree with the r70+ players. Because you know what? I care about things like “fairness” and “justice”. That could have been me facing the prospect of wasted thousands of hours.

Fairness might be an alien concept to you, but it’s not to most of us.

Static.9841:

bhagwad.4281:

Static.9841:

bhagwad.4281:

Buttercup.5871:

You only focus on what is “taken away”. Did you ever consider that PvP was dying and its environment had become downright toxic? You need new blood, and you need it yesterday. This is the best thing they could have done to ensure longevity and sustenance of a solid PvP community. We have nothing to gain from a shaky raging PvP community that tears apart every time the devs tinker with class balance. We need a solid foundation, and I truly believe they’ve done the right thing to create one. A rank finisher is worth nothing if you’re queuing 30 minutes just to use it.

That’s very short sighted. Years and years later, what’s to distinguish players from beta from those who joined half a year ago?

The only thing short-sighted is your response and view point. There’s no point being king of the mountain when in fact your mountain is a molehill and your subjects are so few. You’re being very blinkered.

You are ignoring the current state and lack of popularity of PvP right now. Your viewpoint stems from elitism, over what? a Banner? Wouldn’t it be better to have a steady influx of players and new blood to pvp to actually play with/against which will then have a healthier impact on future changes?

Did you ever think the reason why little gets done to PvP could be down to the amount of players in it compared to the other 2 game modes (Wv3 & PvE) which currently makes it a smaller priority for them to change?

I’ve worked hard for my rank as well, but I welcome these changes if it brings in new players and makes PvP more popular than it already is, rather than the vacant swamp it has become.

Where is the question of “instead”? This is a false dichotomy. Anet can easily implement a system in half a day to satisfy everyone. This is not a zero sum game (pun intended) you know…

This is also not a game that caters to your own personal wishlist.

Well done on completely evading anything I said in your totally well -thought out response.

A “personal wish list” to get rewarded for time and hard work spent in game. Hmm…you’re right. That is unusual.

Chase.8415:

Since all of you like long tedious grinds. I am fine with this idea as long as they make rank ups for 81,82,83, etc greater than 1 million rank up points a rank. I don’t want to see rank 2114 in the scoreboard.

Why not? Since you say that rank points don’t mean anything, why do you care if you see 2114 or not? Makes zero difference to you does it not?

Static.9841:

bhagwad.4281:

Buttercup.5871:

You only focus on what is “taken away”. Did you ever consider that PvP was dying and its environment had become downright toxic? You need new blood, and you need it yesterday. This is the best thing they could have done to ensure longevity and sustenance of a solid PvP community. We have nothing to gain from a shaky raging PvP community that tears apart every time the devs tinker with class balance. We need a solid foundation, and I truly believe they’ve done the right thing to create one. A rank finisher is worth nothing if you’re queuing 30 minutes just to use it.

That’s very short sighted. Years and years later, what’s to distinguish players from beta from those who joined half a year ago?

The only thing short-sighted is your response and view point. There’s no point being king of the mountain when in fact your mountain is a molehill and your subjects are so few. You’re being very blinkered.

You are ignoring the current state and lack of popularity of PvP right now. Your viewpoint stems from elitism, over what? a Banner? Wouldn’t it be better to have a steady influx of players and new blood to pvp to actually play with/against which will then have a healthier impact on future changes?

Did you ever think the reason why little gets done to PvP could be down to the amount of players in it compared to the other 2 game modes (Wv3 & PvE) which currently makes it a smaller priority for them to change?

I’ve worked hard for my rank as well, but I welcome these changes if it brings in new players and makes PvP more popular than it already is, rather than the vacant swamp it has become.

Where is the question of “instead”? This is a false dichotomy. Anet can easily implement a system in half a day to satisfy everyone. This is not a zero sum game (pun intended) you know…

Uhtameit.2413:

bhagwad.4281:

But what am I to do? I’m in this to win and a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do!

I would suggest you are there to play a game so you probably should play what you enjoy most, regardless of victory and meta. But you know, killing the fun yourself by playing braindead specs must be a good solution too.

Oh and yeah, ofc, that’s not exactly possible in tournament. But facing braindead or becoming one is not appealing to me so I’d rather stay in HJ.

“Fun” – now there’s a loaded word. People play for different reasons. For me, the pain of playing a decap engi is obviously less than the “fun” of winning. So I’ll keep playing it till it’s changed.

And “fun” is not the only reason we play. It’s such a frivolous way of looking at things.

Uhtameit.2413:

bhagwad.4281:

Jaxom.7310:

Right and those players at r70+ got glory, which these r55 people won’t, and that glory could have been spent at the vendor on items such as skill point scrolls and tomes of knowledge.

Since you’ve said this “glory” stuff several times, may I ask what your rank is in PvP? Anyone who things glory/old chests is worth anything can’t be a PvP player. Have you ever got new equipment from rank up chests? Have you ever had a chance of a precursor?

Anyone who has ranked up knows the rank up chests are worthless. And glory…yeah, it’s so useful that people had millions of it and didn’t know what to do with it. Moar glory!

Try and read what was said earlier : the main reward from the new chests are the Tomes of Knowledges, which are already easily accessible with glory. That’s why his argument is pretty sound.

You can also get precursors from the reward chests. The tomes of knowledge are not the only thing we’re looking at.

DanyK.3842:

You play decap engi, talking about unfair :P

Oh, I agree. But you know why I play a decap engi? Because most of my PvP time I was a mesmer. Different build, experiments etc. I was even a good close holder. Till one day I met a decap engi who rendered me irrelevant.

I realized that if I wanted to contribute the most to my team, I had to adapt. Never played an engi before, but I learned to be a darned good decap engi myself.

As soon as AR is nerfed, if decap is no longer viable I will go back to my mesmer. I really loved playing it, and I have to admit I often feel that I have no soul as a decapper and even apologize to those I push out. But what am I to do? I’m in this to win and a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do!

First of all, the situation below should never have occurred in Soloq. Aren’t matchups supposed to be fair? I like winning as much as anyone, but tell that to the poor lvl 15 necro I badly screwed over.

Second, looking at the ranks, is anyone surprised? I mean really? Those who say “ranks don’t matter” and “MMR =/= rank” have to realize that the correlation is strong enough to be a very solid causation.

I think the matchups would be better if they were made on the basis of rank instead of MMR. Try it and see. MMR is way too easily skewed to be meaningful at least in its current implementation.

P.S: One necro had left by the time I took this screenshot.

Edit: inb4 some guy says “I saw this low rank own xyz high rank”. We’re talking statistics. One swallow does not a summer make. And this screenshot is not just one swallow. Second, never think you beat a high rank just because of your super skill. They might have been trying out a new build, a new class altogether, could be a team support player instead of a 1v1 build…or whatever. Any number of valid reasons why even super high ranked players can lose at some time or the other to lower ones.

muscarine.5136:

James Megawatt.9021:

I don’t understand the hate here towards Ostricheggs. Y’all guys jealous or what? This guy is getting skrewed over by ANET really hard and he should be compensated. This guy played what, 10k hours or something like that? In PVE land he would be king and swimming in gold.

People who are saying that at the end of the day he got an equal amount of chests that is just wrong wrong wrong. r69-r71 takes 900k which gave him 2 CRAP chests, people who farm 900k nowadays after the patch will obtain 45 chests.

It’s really ironic really. What ANET is trying to say is, we don’t like our current rank system where the amount of time it takes to get a reward rises exponentially. So why don’t they reward retroactively on the amount of rank points obtained instead of the amount of ranks, that’s the whole point of this patch!! To reward people on the amount of rank points you obtain so why don’t you reward Ostricheggs and others on the AMOUNT OF RANK POINTS THEY OBTAINED. I am rank 52 atm, and boy am I glad that I didn’t waste any more time of my life than necessary.

That, or make a little something to acknowledge the effort while not turning the old system page into limbo like a shameful piece of the past.

This is the kind of things i personnaly like to remember “used to be like this”, when seeing for example (in this particular situation) players running around with titles or stuff from “another era”, little things to celebrate the game’s different stages over the course of its lifespan, and what better way to do it than through its dedicated players ?

I agree. Unfortunately some people don’t like to see others with titles/minis/ranks that they can’t have. They don’t realize that these are just little cultural tokens. Like a one time event reward. Or a skin that came only in one instance.

They feel…I don’t know…insulted or whatever by seeing others have these unique pieces of recognition.

It’s sad really. Such things add depth to a game. Give it character. Relics from a forgotten past. But we will never forget!

James Megawatt.9021:

I don’t understand the hate here towards Ostricheggs. Y’all guys jealous or what? This guy is getting skrewed over by ANET really hard and he should be compensated. This guy played what, 10k hours or something like that? In PVE land he would be king and swimming in gold.

People who are saying that at the end of the day he got an equal amount of chests that is just wrong wrong wrong. r69-r71 takes 900k which gave him 2 CRAP chests, people who farm 900k nowadays after the patch will obtain 45 chests.

It’s really ironic really. What ANET is trying to say is, we don’t like our current rank system where the amount of time it takes to get a reward rises exponentially. So why don’t they reward retroactively on the amount of rank points obtained instead of the amount of ranks, that’s the whole point of this patch!! To reward people on the amount of rank points you obtain so why don’t you reward Ostricheggs and others on the AMOUNT OF RANK POINTS THEY OBTAINED. I am rank 52 atm, and boy am I glad that I didn’t waste any more time of my life than necessary.

Exactly. I’m r52 as well. I’m so glad I missed a few months of PvP to get my legendary. I was regretting it earlier, but boy am I glad now! I just feel terribly sorry for high ranked players.

And yeah – those criticizing OE have an inferiority complex. They don’t like others who achieve more than them and who have more time to spend on the game than them. They want GW2 to remain the domain of the casual. There’s no other explanation.

zeromius.1604:

If you had watched the cutscene then you should know what to expect already. What makes a story dark isn’t really the villains but rather the good guys/girls. If you do away with the traditional notion of good and evil then you can create something truly dark. Let’s say your protagonists aren’t necessarily good and they are flawed like real people are. They try to do the right thing but things aren’t always black and white. Maybe they’re forced to sacrifice someone to save others and that someone is close to them and they end up letting everyone else die instead.

More to this point, the elder dragons aren’t really your traditional villains either. They are similar to the Old Ones from the Cthulu mythos in that they are neither good nor evil. It is simply their nature to destroy and consume. I believe they have been described as forces of nature. You try to kill them not because they’re bad but because they are threatening your way of life.

I’m kind of trying to capture the atmosphere of GW1 with its Mursaat, the nightmarish scenery of Elona, the Domain of Anguish and such. Maybe a lot of the suspense and atmosphere had to do with the fact that you were alone without any friends to help you (though that was an option if you wanted).

Perhaps the sense of isolation is key. Perhaps single player dungeons can re capture that feeling…

I was always unable to get fully invested in the living story because it was a bit too “unserious” for me. Scarlet (corrected!), while she had her charms was a just a little too cute and chit chatty. How about a serious threat? Zhaitan could be that but he’s more like a villain in absentia.

How about a Dark Lord with a scary name or title like the “Mordsith” (borrowing from SWOT, sorry!). We need to see him turn Tyria dark, impale people and leave them for all to see, kill a couple of people we love (Scarlet make a joke of Farrow, by cooking him and leaving him in his undies).

In short, make him evil. Make him scary. Give me a reason to fear the night. Remember you song “Fear not this night”? Make it come alive. Live to the tune of that. Give us despair, bleakness, oppress our hearts. Make the demonic come alive.

Corrupt Tyria, fill it with the sounds of shrieking wraiths in pain (not lumenescent will—o-the-wisps mind you).

Give us more single instance living story dungeons to make us afraid and isolate us from our friends. We want to feel heroic at the end of the day, that’s why we role play. It’s hard to feel heroic against comedic villains.

Do that, and I will get more involved in the living story.

mfrelas.9476:

I don’t understand why we can’t have both. It doesn’t make sense to me why we can’t have an effective ladder while still keeping rank as it is. I would argue that skill rewards/title should be harder to get, but in the same breath I can say that thousands of hours (don’t feel like doing the math for dragon/phoenix)of game time is a feat in itself.

We can easily have both. The problem is that many people seem to feel inadequate when they come across a person of high rank, and they think others will too. Despite them repeatedly saying “Ranks don’t mean anything!”, they still care a hell of a lot about them to the extent of not wanting them around as a simple recognition of time and dedication to the game.

Apparently it intimidates them to know how long we’ve been playing even though they keep screaming that they don’t care.

Jaxom.7310:

Right and those players at r70+ got glory, which these r55 people won’t, and that glory could have been spent at the vendor on items such as skill point scrolls and tomes of knowledge.

Since you’ve said this “glory” stuff several times, may I ask what your rank is in PvP? Anyone who things glory/old chests is worth anything can’t be a PvP player. Have you ever got new equipment from rank up chests? Have you ever had a chance of a precursor?

Anyone who has ranked up knows the rank up chests are worthless. And glory…yeah, it’s so useful that people had millions of it and didn’t know what to do with it. Moar glory!

infantrydiv.1620:

this idea would give rank 70s hundreds of chests

They earned those chests. They deserve them. It’s like saying you put in a HUGE number of sanctioned hours at work and your employers says “Oh, we can’t pay you in full. That’ll come to thousands of dollars! Here, have a tenner”.

Jaxom.7310:

bhagwad.4281:

Teo.4239:

Here’s a different prospective….

I’m upset that now that the new changes are coming, I will never be able to get the rank 60 and 70 reward skins now that I’m being bumped to 80.

You did get more rewards for your time investment, Eggs…all that glory you could have spent on winter’s day boxes as well as unlocking rank 60 and 70 items. You already GOT your rewards, why do you want more?

You are recognized by the community for your skills and dedication. This whining about pixel rewards lowers you in my eyes. You were one of my heroes. I used to watch you stream for hours. Get over it, man.

OMG he wants to be compensated for his time and hard work! This is not acceptable. What’s worse, he’s whining about being penalized for putting in thousands of hours more than others. Cry baby. What’s a few thousand hours after all huh?

He should play for nothing more than the sheer enjoyment of the game and adopt a zen like monk attitude towards life. Strive not for rewards, for that is an evil thought.

Hint: /s

You all did get compensated. You’ve been earning chests and glory (up until the last patch or so) that you could have used on lots of different things. The 10 or so of you who spent all that time playing pvp need to stop the qq, and stop spamming the forums with your qq threads. Go back to spending your time where you have been for the past year and a half, and play some pvp.

Right. We got compensated with rank up chests. So true…

Teo.4239:

Here’s a different prospective….

I’m upset that now that the new changes are coming, I will never be able to get the rank 60 and 70 reward skins now that I’m being bumped to 80.

You did get more rewards for your time investment, Eggs…all that glory you could have spent on winter’s day boxes as well as unlocking rank 60 and 70 items. You already GOT your rewards, why do you want more?

You are recognized by the community for your skills and dedication. This whining about pixel rewards lowers you in my eyes. You were one of my heroes. I used to watch you stream for hours. Get over it, man.

OMG he wants to be compensated for his time and hard work! This is not acceptable. What’s worse, he’s whining about being penalized for putting in thousands of hours more than others. Cry baby. What’s a few thousand hours after all huh?

He should play for nothing more than the sheer enjoyment of the game and adopt a zen like monk attitude towards life. Strive not for rewards, for that is an evil thought.

Hint: /s

sirflamesword.3896:

Nary Why Irk.8150:

You do you have problems with reading comprehension.
The solution I´m proposing is pretty much clear: r70 being dragon.
Don´t read if your eyes bleed. These are forums, opinion is free to be expressed.
Furthermore, There are many topics asking the same than me: r70 being dragon. There are also players in game sharing this same thought.

And guess what? Arena-net is open to this kind of feedback.

You had more time to FARM than everyone else, that’s all rank70 means. If you haven’t been able to figure that out idk what to say.

I just hope Anet doesn’t listen to all the complainers(I do agree the high ranked players deserve something be it a title or more chests), but some of use can see the good in changing ranks like this. It will FINALLY give players that can’t devote their whole lives to pvp something to go for.

You talk as if spending time “farming” shouldn’t be rewarded. This was an MMORPG the last time I checked.

SharpShot.9508:

bhagwad.4281:

Just remembered that you’re automatically paired up with people of your own MMR. By definition therefore you will always win 50% and lose 50% no matter how good or bad you are. So won tournaments are again not a measure of skill, but merely of time spent since you always win half of the total matches you play regardless of skill.

For some reason people don’t like the idea of rewarding people for time spent. So this idea while sounding more like what they seem to want, is in reality merely another measure of time spent.

The key difference is that this is time spent winning in arena, in a specific profession, instead of just time spent anywhere. It is definitely a step in the right direction and it is so simple to implement.

But that’s my point. The mathematics works out in a way that you always win half of what you play. So just spend time in an arena regardless of skill and you’ll eventually reach the title at the same speed as a high ranked player. So it’s not different from rank points at all.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for it since rank points are about to take a plunge. I’m just pointing out the way the numbers work. If we can sell it to not offend ragers who somehow think that progression and time spent in PvP is a bad thing, then this will have my staunchest support.

But intellectually I will know that it’s no different from rank points.

Iason Evan.3806:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Solstice.1097:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Solstice.1097:

wait a minute….. if you’re rank 70 that means you already got rank chests for all of those ranks. and you’ll get 11 more on patch day….. so total still 80 rank up chests. A new player going to R80 will also get the same # of chests at the end of the day. Nobody is getting more total chests than you, it’s just that you got yours in the past and they get theirs on patch day.

All in all the amount of rank chests are the same. The real issue here is that for all your playing hours beyond the (new) R80, there will be no recognition or reward.

It has nothing to do with how many chests you receive on patch day and everything to do with there being no clear recognition or goal to work towards past the new R80.

Amirite?

No. I think you’re underestimating how long it took to reach rank 70. Since the patch that actually gave out chests hit, I have received ONE chest because it takes me 450,000 rank points to rank up.

Once more though, most people in this thread are continually mistaking what I’m trying to get across. While everyone knows and understands that high ranks are getting boned, the most symbolic of changes is the fact that rank 55s will receive more rank-up chests to rank 80 than rank 70s will. That is an undeniable fact and I cite a dev in my OP.

At the end of the day I don’t care too much about my lost finisher and 3 million rank points that will just go “poof”. I just want a little bit of respect from the devs. Rewarding rank 55s who get to 80 more than 70s who get to 80 is just the last straw.

what i’m saying is all in all total old system or new system you get a grand total of 80-81 rank chests no matter what system you played under. so nobody gets more chests. the issue is what do you get for your hundreds or thousands of hours playing beyond what the “new” R80 is? Nothing really. That’s the issue, not the rank chests.

Isn’t there still some ridiculous PvP title that nobody has achieved yet? like win 10,000 matches or something? is that the only thing you have left to eventually set yourself apart?

But that’s not true. The chest patch wasn’t retroactive for ranks received. By being rank 70 once that patch hit I’m limited to 10 chests for life until rank 80. That was fine since people actually had to grind their kitten off for em and the rewards are kitten anyways.

What bugs me is the symbolism of getting the D while those who are getting free dragon get more random bullkitten than I do.

I understand your discontent with the system to a degree, but you personally, aren’t losing anything. You are gaining Dragon Rank on the 15th. ArenaNet has a history of this as well. This isn’t a precedent. I remember when they rebalanced the Gladiator ranks in GW1. Before they did that, gaining a rank was akin to wading upstream in a river of molasses with snowshoes on. That update removed the snowshoes. Anyone who has played a Guild Wars game could have told you this. Look what they did to the Survivor Title Track. Remember what happened with the Kurzick/Luxon Tracks? Want me to go on? We knew this would happen in December. They told us it would happen.

TL;DR Rank Bar in PvP=XP Bar in PvE. They lowered the amount of XP we need to get to /rank cap. They deserve our thanks.

Rank bars in PvP are not the same as XP in PvE. In PvE, there are umpteen ways to measure progression and time spent. Gold, legendaries, achievement points and what have you. In PvP, ranks are the only thing we have to show for our time. That makes it much more meaningful and valuable.

Add titles/minis or something for players to aim for after 80, and we can let go of ranks. But we need something. Anything.

Just remembered that you’re automatically paired up with people of your own MMR. By definition therefore you will always win 50% and lose 50% no matter how good or bad you are. So won tournaments are again not a measure of skill, but merely of time spent since you always win half of the total matches you play regardless of skill.

For some reason people don’t like the idea of rewarding people for time spent. So this idea while sounding more like what they seem to want, is in reality merely another measure of time spent.

Excellent idea. As long as the notion of progression is still maintained in some form or the other after we hit 80, I’ll continue playing.

HPLT.7132:

bhagwad.4281:

HPLT.7132:

Who cares about ranks. Everything should be based on a (working) Leaderboards ranking or won Team Q / Solo q matches.
Giving the best rewards to highest ranked people would be like giving every nerd kiddy a Challenger title in LoL just because it played the game long enough.

Actually I am more shocked by the fact that winning an hotjoin match gives almost the same rewards as winning a team q match.

I think you’re in the wrong genre. You might want to play a MOBA instead. This is an MMO. It rewards time spent. And if ranks don’t mean anything, why is anyone objecting to infinite ranks? They don’t mean anything right? Everyone’s happy!

This game wants to be competitive and in a competitive game you dont get the “best” rewards just because spent the most time in the game. World of Warcraft is also a MMO and still you have to be one of the best to get the best rewards…you can spent as much time as you want in the arena – if you suck you will not progress. This is the ONLY you will create both a long-term motivation and an esports “hype”.

Before these changes everyone was complaining that rank means nothing and that there are better r15 than r50. Now they change it and everyone is complaining (especially the r70+ skyhammer farmers) that rank means everything and that “old veterans” should be rewards for their effort. Dont get me wrong, I am currently r61 and reached 55 even before the skyhammer kitten and that mainly just through tourneys but i didnt play because i wanted to reach a new rank level. My main motivations were to become better and especially to progress in the OLD paid system with gems. So if players should be rewarded than those who did succeed in these tourneys because everyone can become r50/60+ in hotjoin in a couple of weeks.

Who’s asking for the “best” rewards? Not me. Is a title or a finisher, the “best” rewards? And for those who say that ranks are meaningless, if that’s so, then what’s the harm in letting them go on forever to 1000 and above? Ranks are anyway meaningless right? So let us have our “meaningless” ranks.

Everyone is happy! Right? Or am I missing something?

sirflamesword.3896:

bhagwad.4281:

I think you’re in the wrong genre. You might want to play a MOBA instead. This is an MMO. It rewards time spent. And if ranks don’t mean anything, why is anyone objecting to infinite ranks? They don’t mean anything right? Everyone’s happy!

You have been saying this alot, maybe it’s because you like being able to make up for lack of skill with time investment?

Perhaps. Or maybe because it’s true. Who knows!

HPLT.7132:

Who cares about ranks. Everything should be based on a (working) Leaderboards ranking or won Team Q / Solo q matches.
Giving the best rewards to highest ranked people would be like giving every nerd kiddy a Challenger title in LoL just because it played the game long enough.

Actually I am more shocked by the fact that winning an hotjoin match gives almost the same rewards as winning a team q match.

I think you’re in the wrong genre. You might want to play a MOBA instead. This is an MMO. It rewards time spent. And if ranks don’t mean anything, why is anyone objecting to infinite ranks? They don’t mean anything right? Everyone’s happy!

kylwilson.9137:

bhagwad.4281:

Rezz.8019:

This is the hardest question in the whole game. Just keep asking yourself how useful you are to the team at each moment of the match and see how you can be more useful. That way you will know if you are more useful at can stay on close points or you should go somewhere else. What you want is to have the odds ever be in your favour. That means you should always make sure the match is 5v5 or 5v>5 and for that, each member of your team has to do stuff and contribute the team at every moment of the match.

But that requires a lot of cold unemotional thinking. Contrary to what most think, just sitting tight on close can be the hardest thing to do. People feel guilty and want to help. And often ruin the outcome of the whole match.

I don’t really equate it to cold and unemotional. It’s just using the data displayed on the map and your team health-bars and rotating as quickly as possible in reaction to the changing situation.

A bunker shouldn’t be at home the entire game, it’s all shades of grey. Conquest is about creating situations of disadvantage, after all, that should be the priority.
A bunker sitting at home from start to finish will not benefit the team, at some point it’s going to be a 4 vs 5 somewhere on the map, and a skilled bunker could have made the difference. As Rezz said, no matter what role, know where you will be the most useful.

Be flexible, reactive, proactive and develop no habits. All just comes with experience really.

It depends on mobility as well. If you see a situation you can help with, unless you can reach there in 5 seconds, don’t bother going. Likely you’ll end up being fodder. Bunkers usually have poor mobility and arriving 15 seconds later is worse than not showing up.

More, far more games have been lost by a bunker leaving close undefended and having the point capped seconds later than by one who nurses home and helps out in any way they can without compromising the ability to run back in time to prevent a decap.

Ryan.9387:

Anyone r70ish frankly plays too much.

Developers: OMG – he plays our game too much! We never intended an MMO to be played in this manner. Punish him!

bring out pitchforks (said no developer ever).

But seriously, the amount of hate towards dedicated players is amazing and smacks heavily of jealousy. The creators of GW2 should be honored that people are playing so much and they should show their appreciation.

That’s what you do for long time dedicated customers. Or didn’t you know?

MithranArkanere.8957:

Rank was farmed in custom arenas, making it pointless.

Yes, thanks to a few guys doing something to get it much easier than you, yours is worthless.

So be happy they at least listened to us and kept it in any form at all.

It’ll be nice if there was bonus chests per day or level over time, but I would not expect much. Remember you could have gotten all those skins unlocks and dyes new players won’t be getting.

Without statistics, you can’t say that “rank was farmed” to any significant level. I’m willing to bet that no skyhammer farmer is r70 right now. Not one.

Erwin.5603:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Erwin.5603:

I am not sure, if the way you imply that it is gonna happen, is the way it is actually gonna happen. Maybe a Dev can clarify.

read the thread that I linked in my original post.

Evan Lesh.3295:

You will only get a chest per rank to 81. You will not get more than (81 – current rank) chests.

Its more likely that he merely wanted to state, that the rank up awards aren’t given out when ranking up beyond 80/81 (they stated you can rank up further like in pve).

No, it’s pretty clear what he meant. The max chests a person will get is 25. And that’s for an r55 player. Future ranking ups are a different matter of course. But someone who’s currently r70 gets badly shafted.