Guild Wars 2

looking at the upcoming changes to conditions I don’t think adding dire would be a good idea. conditions are getting multiple damage buffs, which exacerbates the problem with dire: that condition damage only requires 2 stats to be effective, and duration is gained through traits and runes not amulets.

cele compromises everywhere, dire has no compromise. it is has both maximum survivability and damage. this is why it’s so popular for wvw roaming, and why it’s so hated there.

rabid engineer is going to be bonkers… I’m rather chuffed

build have weakness. sometimes that weakness if the strength of another build. it’s unavoidable.

lightson.2310:

If AC’s get the heal venom they also get ‘repaired’

this is awesome

why would anyone want to be the replacement player? seems like an awful experience for them. can’t see why they should have to suffer along with the other four teammates just because of one leaver.

Sigmoid.7082:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

choovanski.5462:

Sunfish.5970:

infantrydiv.1620:

Sunfish.5970:

Conditions do not provide enough counter pressure to stop a train, if any pressure at all before you die to pure dps.

Wow, sounds like you yourself admit a perfect reason why dire could possibly be added.

dps will always win against condi as long as shoutbows/medi-guards exist in a team. Adding dire isnt a solution to that. Nerfing shoutbows is 8^)

if you nerf shoutbow people will just go back to the old group condi cleanse class pure voice guardian. shoutbow is nothing new.

except shot bow has more CC & damage then pure of voice guardian while doing the same or better healing while removing conditions.

It will do agurably much less damage after the changes to stats and amulets as well as the condi changes.

plus guard has group stab and multiple invuns. it doesnt die to cc and focus like shoutbow does. guardian does less damage atm, but has better boons and surviablity. with the trait changes we might see shout guard rival shoutbow’s damage.

Sunfish.5970:

infantrydiv.1620:

Sunfish.5970:

Conditions do not provide enough counter pressure to stop a train, if any pressure at all before you die to pure dps.

Wow, sounds like you yourself admit a perfect reason why dire could possibly be added.

dps will always win against condi as long as shoutbows/medi-guards exist in a team. Adding dire isnt a solution to that. Nerfing shoutbows is 8^)

if you nerf shoutbow people will just go back to the old group condi cleanse class pure voice guardian. shoutbow is nothing new.

alemfi.5107:

Aomine.5012:

Actually this is a nerf to movement skill too.
Now their traveling distance is not affected by swiftness as well, meaning a Warrior or a Ranger will travel a much shorter distance with their movement skill. It used to work both ways, that chill and swiftness all affect the distance.

And what is wrong with that? Removing counter play and pro active play is removing decision making that can allow for the player to improve and differentiate themselves.

^ exactly. removing the interaction between movement skills and boons means shallower combat.

seems like i could make a necromancer and swap every game then. i’ll be able to queue with starting mmr eternally.

i could even throw matches on necro to build up a low mmr for the class (50+ losses no wins), so i can ensure i get players with good mmr on my team (because of how matchmaking works).

yeah, it’s dumb/

goodbye 1500 range rocket boots bby i still <3 u

Nova Stiker.8396:

Where is the engineer buff thread? Engineer has more useless traits than Elementalists and more useless utilities than Warrior.

there are a lot of heavily underrated traits and combos. barbarian HGH is surprisingly good, my staple build uses throw mine which is a very nuanced skill (some great cooldown manipulation you can do). however, that’s not to say a lot of things need improving… the gadget traits are… well yes.. those.

(i tested throw mine against slick shoes, and it’s definitely better in a number of situations. it’s flown completely under the radar)

Peutrifectus.4830:

Any Engi’s struggling with stealthy thieves, try bomb kit. The pulsing blind and indiscriminate nature of the blast and condis works a treat.

the bombs throw mine combo is gorgeous. trust me, thieves have no idea what hit cc’d them and they never dodge it.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Belial.9350:

Complains about everything being OP.

Wants to add an OP amulet to PvP.

Its not at all OP. How can anything be OP compared to the last 18 months of celestial. Really….

And its not OP because it has no direct damage. Conditions have massive counter play as you can just remove them (unlike direct damage). If condition builds become decent then the meta evolves to combat them. And that is IF. Unfortunately there is no way to combat celestial or zerker amulet in the same way.

It also opens up a ton of new builds which PvP is in desperate need of.

Dire perplex is hated in wvw roaming and small group for a good reason. now, i’m not saying don’t add it- but prepare yourself for full dire premades. all five will be bunker tough and their condi spam will drop anything. it’s not something i would enjoy fighting, feel like you would need at least 2 shout classes with soldier runes on your team to fight it.

Faux.1937:

choovanski.5462:

Faux.1937:

I see, But if you get the (block) you KNOW RIGHT WHERE THE THIEF IS.

So what am I missing?

neither your nor your allies can target them

@Faux: no passive heal? you ever heard of shadow arts? you seen what that thing is becoming with the changes… ohhhh boyyyyy

I said good…. having little and ALOT are 2 different things.

Look at Ele, Engi, War and Ranger at least to see what I mean.

you can grab both shadow protector and shadow’s rejuvenation. on it’s own SR is 293 base, which is solid compared to 362 from the hated healing signet, and better than backpack rgns 117. both of the traits combined with the now free resilience of shadows is a huge survivability boost.

Faux.1937:

I see, But if you get the (block) you KNOW RIGHT WHERE THE THIEF IS.

So what am I missing?

neither your nor your allies can target them

@Faux: no passive heal? you ever heard of shadow arts? you seen what that thing is becoming with the changes… ohhhh boyyyyy

Laraley.7695:

choovanski.5462:

Laraley.7695:

choovanski.5462:

Faux.1937:

choovanski.5462:

Ravenmoon.5318:

choovanski.5462:

Emi.4152:

Mrbig.8019:

Panic strike thief is like the strongest 1vs1 build in this meta.

If u give a thief enough time it will even kill almost all cele builds aside shoutbow ( debatable).

I’m seriously questioning the skill level of the average poster in these forums, altough it’s not really that much about playing the game but mostly about knowing it.

Stop

I’m not sure I agree with you. I feel that cele ele and especially cele engineer have the upper hand in a 1 v 1 situation, shoutbow… true, debatable, med guards… x.x

jumping on them after they’ve been fighting for a while… that’s another story no?

add passive aggressive comment here

choovanski.5462:

I don’t agree with condition 4, but 6-10 need to happen. you are bad at the game if you using your burst skill when you are under those conditions and you deserve to fail. aegis, blind, block, evade- those are all ways someone can out play you.

I do actually agree with you. If they made it so if you missed a backstab, the 1 key would just turn back into a normal auto attack, that would make a lot of sense to me. To lose stealth or even gaining revealed in that situation seems too much though.

the thief should be absolutely revealed from stealth. they landed an attack on the enemy, an act that under normal circumstances would remove stealth. however since their foe managed to mitigate the damage though a blind/block etc the thief is allowed to stay stealthed. the thief is being rewarded because they are playing badly and their foe is playing well, which is completely the opposite of what should happen.

it’s blatantly unfair mechanic where a bad player is not punished when they make a mistake.

This change is totally kittened. Skilled thieves currently wait out your blocks because if you were skilled yourself you’d know that blocking lets you know the thief’s position. Change that and yeah you’ll kill scrub thieves i guess. Though you should be able to takeout scrub thieves even now because they don’t think much.

The following week the good thieves will stab you brutally again and because you don’t know how to protect yourself properly you’ll come to the forums again begging for backstab nerf.

Maybe create a thief and see how “ridiculously OP” it is before judging?

i’m posting because i disagree with the mechanic, not because i have trouble fighting the class. i don’t.

Well I love the Mechanic, the reason w hy I played Rogue in wow and why I main thief in gw2.

wow doesn’t have blind or aegis. i don’t have an issue with stealth, i have an issue with the fact that block, blind etc stop the thief from being revealed when they attack you.

i think we are talking about different things.

On the other hand…if you’re using your block when thief is in stealth, you’re not playing correctly either. You know that it won’t change anything and you’re wasting your cd.

yeah of course. blocking a 5k+ backstab is pretty dumb

The whole threads cries about not being able to block when thief is in stealth because he doesn’t get revealed. In that case blocking backstab is dumb, since as many said thief can just keep stealth up and backstab you later.

my opinion is similar, but i think the fact that the thief doesn’t get revealed is dumb as opposed to wanting to block the backstab. backstab is big damage skill with no tell, just the sort of thing you’d want to block. if block/blind revealed the thief you could count the stealth then time your skill use to mitigate damage while revealing the thief allowing you to counter pressure.

the issue is much more pronounced with block and aegis. sure meditation guardian has a good time vs thieves, but not all guardians are medi and neither is everyone with aegis.

currently thief is revealed when they attack you, unless you mitigate the damage… if you do that the thief gets to attack until the damage is landed while staying in stealth. it removes a huge amount of potential counterplay to backstab.

Laraley.7695:

choovanski.5462:

Faux.1937:

choovanski.5462:

Ravenmoon.5318:

choovanski.5462:

Emi.4152:

Mrbig.8019:

Panic strike thief is like the strongest 1vs1 build in this meta.

If u give a thief enough time it will even kill almost all cele builds aside shoutbow ( debatable).

I’m seriously questioning the skill level of the average poster in these forums, altough it’s not really that much about playing the game but mostly about knowing it.

Stop

I’m not sure I agree with you. I feel that cele ele and especially cele engineer have the upper hand in a 1 v 1 situation, shoutbow… true, debatable, med guards… x.x

jumping on them after they’ve been fighting for a while… that’s another story no?

add passive aggressive comment here

choovanski.5462:

I don’t agree with condition 4, but 6-10 need to happen. you are bad at the game if you using your burst skill when you are under those conditions and you deserve to fail. aegis, blind, block, evade- those are all ways someone can out play you.

I do actually agree with you. If they made it so if you missed a backstab, the 1 key would just turn back into a normal auto attack, that would make a lot of sense to me. To lose stealth or even gaining revealed in that situation seems too much though.

the thief should be absolutely revealed from stealth. they landed an attack on the enemy, an act that under normal circumstances would remove stealth. however since their foe managed to mitigate the damage though a blind/block etc the thief is allowed to stay stealthed. the thief is being rewarded because they are playing badly and their foe is playing well, which is completely the opposite of what should happen.

it’s blatantly unfair mechanic where a bad player is not punished when they make a mistake.

This change is totally kittened. Skilled thieves currently wait out your blocks because if you were skilled yourself you’d know that blocking lets you know the thief’s position. Change that and yeah you’ll kill scrub thieves i guess. Though you should be able to takeout scrub thieves even now because they don’t think much.

The following week the good thieves will stab you brutally again and because you don’t know how to protect yourself properly you’ll come to the forums again begging for backstab nerf.

Maybe create a thief and see how “ridiculously OP” it is before judging?

i’m posting because i disagree with the mechanic, not because i have trouble fighting the class. i don’t.

Well I love the Mechanic, the reason w hy I played Rogue in wow and why I main thief in gw2.

wow doesn’t have blind or aegis. i don’t have an issue with stealth, i have an issue with the fact that block, blind etc stop the thief from being revealed when they attack you.

i think we are talking about different things.

On the other hand…if you’re using your block when thief is in stealth, you’re not playing correctly either. You know that it won’t change anything and you’re wasting your cd.

yeah of course. blocking a 5k+ backstab is pretty dumb

Faux.1937:

choovanski.5462:

Ravenmoon.5318:

choovanski.5462:

Emi.4152:

Mrbig.8019:

Panic strike thief is like the strongest 1vs1 build in this meta.

If u give a thief enough time it will even kill almost all cele builds aside shoutbow ( debatable).

I’m seriously questioning the skill level of the average poster in these forums, altough it’s not really that much about playing the game but mostly about knowing it.

Stop

I’m not sure I agree with you. I feel that cele ele and especially cele engineer have the upper hand in a 1 v 1 situation, shoutbow… true, debatable, med guards… x.x

jumping on them after they’ve been fighting for a while… that’s another story no?

add passive aggressive comment here

choovanski.5462:

I don’t agree with condition 4, but 6-10 need to happen. you are bad at the game if you using your burst skill when you are under those conditions and you deserve to fail. aegis, blind, block, evade- those are all ways someone can out play you.

I do actually agree with you. If they made it so if you missed a backstab, the 1 key would just turn back into a normal auto attack, that would make a lot of sense to me. To lose stealth or even gaining revealed in that situation seems too much though.

the thief should be absolutely revealed from stealth. they landed an attack on the enemy, an act that under normal circumstances would remove stealth. however since their foe managed to mitigate the damage though a blind/block etc the thief is allowed to stay stealthed. the thief is being rewarded because they are playing badly and their foe is playing well, which is completely the opposite of what should happen.

it’s blatantly unfair mechanic where a bad player is not punished when they make a mistake.

This change is totally kittened. Skilled thieves currently wait out your blocks because if you were skilled yourself you’d know that blocking lets you know the thief’s position. Change that and yeah you’ll kill scrub thieves i guess. Though you should be able to takeout scrub thieves even now because they don’t think much.

The following week the good thieves will stab you brutally again and because you don’t know how to protect yourself properly you’ll come to the forums again begging for backstab nerf.

Maybe create a thief and see how “ridiculously OP” it is before judging?

i’m posting because i disagree with the mechanic, not because i have trouble fighting the class. i don’t.

Well I love the Mechanic, the reason w hy I played Rogue in wow and why I main thief in gw2.

i think we are talking about different mechanics, as wow doesn’t have blind or aegis. i don’t have an issue with stealth, i have an issue with the fact that block, blind etc stop the thief from being revealed when they attack you. currently backstab ignores aegis and blind for all intensive purposes.

Ravenmoon.5318:

choovanski.5462:

Emi.4152:

Mrbig.8019:

Panic strike thief is like the strongest 1vs1 build in this meta.

If u give a thief enough time it will even kill almost all cele builds aside shoutbow ( debatable).

I’m seriously questioning the skill level of the average poster in these forums, altough it’s not really that much about playing the game but mostly about knowing it.

Stop

I’m not sure I agree with you. I feel that cele ele and especially cele engineer have the upper hand in a 1 v 1 situation, shoutbow… true, debatable, med guards… x.x

jumping on them after they’ve been fighting for a while… that’s another story no?

add passive aggressive comment here

choovanski.5462:

I don’t agree with condition 4, but 6-10 need to happen. you are bad at the game if you using your burst skill when you are under those conditions and you deserve to fail. aegis, blind, block, evade- those are all ways someone can out play you.

I do actually agree with you. If they made it so if you missed a backstab, the 1 key would just turn back into a normal auto attack, that would make a lot of sense to me. To lose stealth or even gaining revealed in that situation seems too much though.

the thief should be absolutely revealed from stealth. they landed an attack on the enemy, an act that under normal circumstances would remove stealth. however since their foe managed to mitigate the damage though a blind/block etc the thief is allowed to stay stealthed. the thief is being rewarded because they are playing badly and their foe is playing well, which is completely the opposite of what should happen.

it’s blatantly unfair mechanic where a bad player is not punished when they make a mistake.

This change is totally kittened. Skilled thieves currently wait out your blocks because if you were skilled yourself you’d know that blocking lets you know the thief’s position. Change that and yeah you’ll kill scrub thieves i guess. Though you should be able to takeout scrub thieves even now because they don’t think much.

The following week the good thieves will stab you brutally again and because you don’t know how to protect yourself properly you’ll come to the forums again begging for backstab nerf.

Maybe create a thief and see how “ridiculously OP” it is before judging?

i’m posting because i disagree with the mechanic, not because i have trouble fighting the class. i don’t.

Emi.4152:

choovanski.5462:

I don’t agree with condition 4, but 6-10 need to happen. you are bad at the game if you using your burst skill when you are under those conditions and you deserve to fail. aegis, blind, block, evade- those are all ways someone can out play you.

you should not get a second chance at backstab if you screw it up. no other class gets that with burst skills. should I another earthshaker if my first one gets blinded?- oh wait we used to but it got nerfed.

it’s time to L2P and learn to connect hits the first time, not the third.

and also… you’re forgetting something. You can actually get rid of blind/aegis before you attempt to earthshaker. A thief in stealth cannot. There’s a difference between smart counterplay and complete shutdown isn’t there? Also… comparing bs to a AOE stun… from a set with 2 other AOE stuns… using a completely different profession mechanic…. okay….

thief can remove blind in stealth with shadows embrace. aegis is a problem sure, but shouldnt it be? currently the only thing you can do counter backstab is random dodge- and that’s a gamble. warriors earthshaker has many counters, not just blind and aegis- and it’s easy to dodge too (plus you can interrupt mid leap gosh).

i used earthshaker as it’s a skill that is integral to my play (and that of any hammer warrior), just as backstab is to the thief. considering how strong and essential these skills are to killing on these professions there needs to be a degree of counterplay opponents can employ. ‘dodge and pray’ is really not enough.

Kageseigi.2150:

choovanski.5462:

the thief is being rewarded because they are playing badly and their foe is playing well, which is completely the opposite of what should happen.

it’s blatantly unfair mechanic where a bad player is not punished when they make a mistake.

Yeah, so if a thief runs around in stealth so you can’t hurt him, then I guess he’s playing well also? That’s the argument you’re making. But I only hear crying when that happens.

If it is true that a thief is actually supposed to use stealth to avoid damage, then why are so many people calling for nerfs?

What about this idea? When a player is invulnerable, the first attack they make removes their invulnerability? Makes sense, does it not?

i just think a thief should be revealed when they attack you regardless of if the attack does damage or not. currently thief can spam and ignore blinds & aegis, and i just don’t think that’s fair or that it promotes skilled play.

your argument and analogy are confused and don’t seem to relate to my point. so, i’m not going to bother with them.

three years too late with this complaint.

let’s just say, ‘give up hope’.

Emi.4152:

Mrbig.8019:

Panic strike thief is like the strongest 1vs1 build in this meta.

If u give a thief enough time it will even kill almost all cele builds aside shoutbow ( debatable).

I’m seriously questioning the skill level of the average poster in these forums, altough it’s not really that much about playing the game but mostly about knowing it.

Stop

I’m not sure I agree with you. I feel that cele ele and especially cele engineer have the upper hand in a 1 v 1 situation, shoutbow… true, debatable, med guards… x.x

jumping on them after they’ve been fighting for a while… that’s another story no?

add passive aggressive comment here

choovanski.5462:

I don’t agree with condition 4, but 6-10 need to happen. you are bad at the game if you using your burst skill when you are under those conditions and you deserve to fail. aegis, blind, block, evade- those are all ways someone can out play you.

I do actually agree with you. If they made it so if you missed a backstab, the 1 key would just turn back into a normal auto attack, that would make a lot of sense to me. To lose stealth or even gaining revealed in that situation seems too much though.

the thief should be absolutely revealed from stealth. they landed an attack on the enemy, an act that under normal circumstances would remove stealth. however since their foe managed to mitigate the damage though a blind/block etc the thief is allowed to stay stealthed. the thief is being rewarded because they are playing badly and their foe is playing well, which is completely the opposite of what should happen.

it’s blatantly unfair mechanic where a bad player is not punished when they make a mistake.

Weez.6315:

you dont see condition builds cause of all the condi cleanse and not because the current condition amulets would be bad in comparison.

Dire gives you the maximum amount of condi dmg, (lets ignore the few on crit traits which u can gain with intelligence sigil)
while granting 2 defensive stats.
Its like a Pvt amulet which grants nearly as much damage as a zerker one. i never understood why anet implemented dire..

it’s true. dire builds in wvw are so crushing. the QQ would be unreal.

Emi.4152:

Criteria for landing backstab would go from:
1. Must be in stealth
2. Must be behind target
3. Must be within 130 range

Into:
1. Must be in stealth
2. Must be behind target
3. Must be within 130 range
4. Must not be hit by any damage <- reallllyyyyyy? how exactly do you propose to achieve this miracle?
5. Must not be blind
6. Target must not be blocking
7. Target must not have aegis
8. Target must not be invulnerable
9. Target must not be dodging
10. Can only try once

Honestly speaking, my own successful backstab rate would go from 40%~50% to something closer to 5% (and only if i combo backstab -> traited steal)

I don’t agree with condition 4, but 6-10 need to happen. you are bad at the game if you using your burst skill when you are under those conditions and you deserve to fail. aegis, blind, block, evade- those are all ways someone can out play you.

you should not get a second chance at backstab if you screw it up. no other class gets that with burst skills. should I another earthshaker if my first one gets blinded?- oh wait we used to but it got nerfed.

it’s time to L2P and learn to connect hits the first time, not the third.

you can literally walk out of the EB and BL maps. all you need is to be good enough at jumping puzzles to do the mad kings clocktower.

gw2 has a lot of bugs. you can double jump and float above mini pets if you know how, no hacks needed.

Laraley.7695:

choovanski.5462:

Laraley.7695:

Dralor.3701:

I think this guy has made a nerf thread on every class except necro?

And now guess what his main is.

comically it hard counters engineer

I’ve sad this before, but necro only hardcounters engi if both plays condi, which is not really common anymore.

only the necro needs to play condi really

Laraley.7695:

Dralor.3701:

I think this guy has made a nerf thread on every class except necro?

And now guess what his main is.

comically it hard counters engineer

play some condi ranger and always remember to entangle after the engineer uses healing turret. you should win every time.

does Engi have a lot of CC? yes
does Engi have good defense vs power dmg? yes
is Engi a free kill for condi builds? yes

any competent condition build can just farm the enemy engineer for the whole match. it’s really no surprise the class shines in other areas, it’s almost as if it’s been given compensation for being designed to lose vs condition damage.

slick shoes doesn’t need to be nerfed into pointlessness. have you ever seen somebody use kick? ever wondered why?

Laraley.7695:

choovanski.5462:

i have to run up to you and then run a tight circle around your feet. it looks very distinctive, i don’t hide my intentions i just literally charge you.

here is my advice on what you should do
https://youtu.be/UC86yQAzaxg

Yes, you’re right. Rifle engi has no ways to make sure his slick shoes land. You’re making a great point, I mean it’s not like engi can actually cc you several times. We all should learn to play because Slick shoes are really hard to land, like probably the hardest thing in game and running circles around someone is too difficult. And even when you manage to do so, like one of the meta classes run stab, so basically it counters it. Doesn’t even matter the cooldown is 15 seconds higher than Slick Shoe’s one.

if i’ve already cc’d you and you don’t have a stunbreak you are probably going to die regardless of if you get slick’d afterwards or not.

i never said it was hard to land, just that it’s very obvious when the engi is going to use it.

Cynz.9437:

choovanski.5462:

Laraley.7695:

tetrodoxin.2134:

Shadow.1345:

Thieves have nothing else for defense.

Well…

Shadow.1345:

And if people aren’t complaining about thief stealth they are complaining about the amount of evades.

Aren’t all those evades also “defense”? Not complaining here, but stating that thieves don’t have any defense beside stealth is kinda wrong, don’t you think?

Can you play s/d build that depends on evades and d/p build that depends on stealth at the same time?

i’ve actually seen a lot of people run s/d d/p so yeah, it seems you can?

dp with acro? oh man that is very useful… as useful in teamplay as PU mesmer afking at spawn

i’ve seen them run a variety of trait set ups. not saying it’s good, just that i’ve seen it around quite a bit.

i have to run up to you and then run a tight circle around your feet. it looks very distinctive, i don’t hide my intentions i just literally charge you.

here is my advice on what you should do
https://youtu.be/UC86yQAzaxg

Laraley.7695:

tetrodoxin.2134:

Shadow.1345:

Thieves have nothing else for defense.

Well…

Shadow.1345:

And if people aren’t complaining about thief stealth they are complaining about the amount of evades.

Aren’t all those evades also “defense”? Not complaining here, but stating that thieves don’t have any defense beside stealth is kinda wrong, don’t you think?

Can you play s/d build that depends on evades and d/p build that depends on stealth at the same time?

i’ve actually seen a lot of people run s/d d/p so yeah, it seems you can?

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Johje Holan.4607:

The problem in Shoutbow is the “bow”, not the “shout”. The Bow is the problem with Warrior period.

Look at all the meta or builds rated Good or better. All use Bow.

Nerf the bow not the Warrior. Imo they should just ban Warrior from using a bow, that would take care of it nicely.

Someone has issues dodging pindown?

When the real issue is Combustive Shot + Cleansing Ire.
I know this is Larley’s style of derive the focus so that OP classes seem weaker.

Let’s see here.

We have shoutbow, hambow, axebow and great bow.

Do all these buidls use bow? Check
Are all of these builds meta? Nope.

What does it say? Bow is not the issue, but again you cannot see the difference between people actually stating what’s problematic about the spec and just crying how OP it is.

two things are popular for conquest builds, ranged weapons (so you don’t get kited) and AOE (because you fight on nodes). rifle is awful, so as a warrior bow is the only ranged weapon you can get. i run full melee warrior and i’m fine in a teamfight on node, but i’m really vulnerable to kiting. warrior runs bow for the same reasons guardian runs sceptre, a ranged weapon with AOE is tactically useful.

the CI argument is not that good for a shout build. earthshaker is not that hard to land in a teamfight comparatively, and a shout warrior doesn’t rely on CI for condi clear that much.

people just take longbow because it’s a good ranged weapon, and a good ranged weapon is a very good thing to have as your second weaponset.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

choovanski.5462:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I’d personally like to see slick shoes toned down a bit…

The puddles on the ground should be gone by the time you have slipped and recovered from your first slip.

Slipping, getting up, slipping, getting up and slipping again is broken.

…and it tears right through stability like you didn’t even have any on.

i feel like you don’t understand the purpose of the slick shoes. your nerf would gut the skill and make it a single knockdown.. a single knockdown as a utility skill.

Yeah you are right a utility skill that only gives one interrupt is absurd….

Like Bull’s Charge
or
Kick

Clearly those should skills should be buffed so they if they connect, they continuously knock you on your backside for 8 seconds, also…. oh and don’t forget to make them disregard any stability your foe had..

if you want to make slick shoes as bad as kick then it needs more than a 25sec cd reduction. not to mention nobody even uses that awful skill. comparing it to bulls rush shows you don’t understand the skill, and im not even going to bother explaining.

you can dodge out of it, and you can port out. you can stunbreak then dodge out too.

Sagat.3285:

Tao.1234:

And what’s wrong with slick shoes?
Don’t step on it and you’ll be fine.
I see no problems here.
‘_’

Why does it knock me down if I’m not moving??

Off-topic what if immobilize was the same way? You can’t move but you can still turn to hit a target.

a bugfix is fine, because that’s what slick shoes knocking down you when you stand still is. either that or your latency, or the engineers latency is enough that it thinks you moved in it.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I’d personally like to see slick shoes toned down a bit…

The puddles on the ground should be gone by the time you have slipped and recovered from your first slip.

Slipping, getting up, slipping, getting up and slipping again is broken.

…and it tears right through stability like you didn’t even have any on.

i feel like you don’t understand the purpose of the slick shoes. your nerf would gut the skill and make it a single knockdown.. a single knockdown as a utility skill.

BlackTruth.6813:

Grenades are fine. Engi deleting counterplay which is focus-fire is NOT. Slick shoes or gear shield needs a nerf. Oh, and Vampirism is just stupid for ALL CLASSES, doesn’t matter what it is. Please delete those runes, if you get caught you should stay caught and not get a free jail-card rune to back you up.

OR we can all just wait for HoT and maybe REAL balancing will happen and that each and every class will be at the same level of effort. JK I don’t think ANET has the talent for that to happen.

you run with endure pain at 25% hp. hypocrite much?

zinkz.7045:

choovanski.5462:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

“In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.

The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant."

worth a read. might open your mind.

Not really, playing to win DOTA 2 at Dreamhack, fair enough, playing to win regardless of fun in a broken a format that is an uncompetitive joke like WvW, is irrelevant and best left to noobs who have just started the game and don’t know any better yet.

i can’t see why people should not play to win in wvw. if not win by ppt, by winning all their fights. all the gvg guilds I’ve ran with and talk to on TS find wining their fights fun. many use killshot warriors to kill commanders and other targets. I know for a fact they are having fun with it because they told me. one got 3 downs with one killshot in a gvg, it was a highlight moment.

Toxsa.2701:

choovanski.5462:

Toxsa.2701:

How about you try to formulate a full condition team and see if it worked in high-end PVP? I’ll be looking forward to it.

i’ve encountered full 5 man condi premades before and i was just killed every time i met more than one of them because i was playing cele engi. it’s not the best class to judge the quality of the composition, but it felt good when i was dying to it. condi works so well for roaming/small group in wvw. few builds are able to deal with condi spam from multiple people at once, especially when cc is mixed in too. i think it has potential to be very strong. i would love to see how it works if anyone is game to try it, but sadly i don’t know enough high calibre players with schedules that could support a 5 man tournament team to try it myself.

WvW has that abusive 40% condition duration food, so it’s totally different.
Also, in WvW, you don’t need to fight on node, you can apply all the condition you want and then disengage and condition is still ticking on the opponents lol..

people run -40% condi duration in wvw.

the big advantage you get from multiple players is that it becomes really easy to stack large amounts of condis on one person fast, and continuously. in a 1v1 it takes a while for most condi builds to stack enough bleeding and other condis to be scary, they have to build the stacks over time. however with multiple condi players the stacks go up extremely quickly, and since auto atacks do condi you will run out of clears before they run out of ways to apply condis.

Toxsa.2701:

How about you try to formulate a full condition team and see if it worked in high-end PVP? I’ll be looking forward to it.

i’ve encountered full 5 man condi premades before and i was just killed every time i met more than one of them because i was playing cele engi. it’s not the best class to judge the quality of the composition, but it felt good when i was dying to it. condi works so well for roaming/small group in wvw. few builds are able to deal with condi spam from multiple people at once, especially when cc is mixed in too. i think it has potential to be very strong. i would love to see how it works if anyone is game to try it, but sadly i don’t know enough high calibre players with schedules that could support a 5 man tournament team to try it myself.

yall are stupidly only running one condi player on your team and expecting 1 condi player to be able to overwhelm personal condi cleanse + shouts w soldier runes (shoutbow or bunk guard).

run multiple condi builds. run necros with corrupt boon and epidemic. don’t dabble in condi, embrace it. it works extremely well in wvw (i have three pals who ran dire mesmers with identical gear and dyes, so ruthless). the shoutbow is also very vulnerable to cc, not only because the build only has one stunbreak- but also because that stunbreak often is used for group condi clear. a cc’d shoutbow dies super easy, and then the opposing team loses the group clear making them even more vulnerable to conditions.

if they slot the Yak then it’s still easy. just get them to use it, even better get them to use it then convert it to a fear. then type ‘lol’ and fear them into a wall.

sure, these are team strategies- but like of course they are. shoutbow is built for teamfights, so that’s where you are going to be fighting it. bunkers are back, so people are going to have to focus them intelligently.

‘oh help i cant 1v1 bunker takes so long’ like come on, that’s why the build is a bunker. ‘shoutbow group support so good’ well, it’s a support build dude… it’s like built for it. ‘oh so easy to play’ well, most bunkers are pretty easy to not die on but there is a big difference between a skill spammer and a good bunker who supports their team well.

some people say shoutbow does a lot of damage, but compared to an actual dps build it really doesn’t. sure it does a lot of damage to a zerker build when it has 10+ might but what build doesn’t… zerkers are have low defensive stats so they take a lot of damage from anyone. shoutbow does average damage if you are fighting a balanced build like cele engi. if you dodge pindown and final thrust and have some degree of condi clear the build doesn’t put put out much pressure. it’s not life blast.

i often get the feeling that a large amount of the forums want everyone to run zerker. most of the complaints about shoutbow is that it’s a tanky build that has great group support and is easy to play. that just sounds like a support build.

that seems kind of bonkers

Laraley.7695:

Terrorsquad.4802:

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lol at the thief argument of l2p. I will turn it round of you thieves. If you aren’t just crushing and carrying games as a solo player then you need to l2p. D/P thief is that strong, and so was S/D before d/p. SO if your struggling maybe work on your game lads.

people think thief is weak but it’s not. most thief players are just bad.

seriously bad. like I can kill them on zerker engineer (TC,S,SS) bad.

I don’t wanna assume but I have never seen any of the thief posters here in the forums in pvp except for Cynz and glock.

Although we argue a lot in the forums I do have respect for these people’s skills.

I have 4k matches but I have never seen these other posters in pvp, must be the MMR? or?

Or Region

Well, I don’t know about you but I don’t check the account name of every person on my or opposite team, I only recognize people who has the same account name and character name. But this is a hilarious argument.

same, plus I’m always high af when I’m playing pvp so I rarely remember people unless their character and play are really distinctive, or they have a hilarious name.

Terrorsquad.4802:

choovanski.5462:

terrorsquad is meme esports. I am in awe.

please grace us with more memes mememaster.

Sorry, as a pro, I cannot show my strategic memes right off the bat.
Just follow me and enjoy down the road.

bless <3

terrorsquad is meme esports. I am in awe.

please grace us with more memes mememaster.

StickerHappy.8052:

choovanski.5462:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lol at the thief argument of l2p. I will turn it round of you thieves. If you aren’t just crushing and carrying games as a solo player then you need to l2p. D/P thief is that strong, and so was S/D before d/p. SO if your struggling maybe work on your game lads.

people think thief is weak but it’s not. most thief players are just bad.

seriously bad. like I can kill them on zerker engineer (TC,S,SS) bad.

I don’t wanna assume but I have never seen any of the thief posters here in the forums in pvp except for Cynz and glock.

most thieves I encounter in pvp are absolute jokes who can’t blind spam for anything. they will do “smart” things like using whirling axes when I have my hammer out on my warrior. they eat backbreaker every time.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lol at the thief argument of l2p. I will turn it round of you thieves. If you aren’t just crushing and carrying games as a solo player then you need to l2p. D/P thief is that strong, and so was S/D before d/p. SO if your struggling maybe work on your game lads.

people think thief is weak but it’s not. most thief players are just bad.

seriously bad. like I can kill them on zerker engineer (TC,S,SS) bad.

TheFamster.7806:

choovanski.5462:

you sound like a cool guy to have on the team.

sarcasm?

anyone who likes to res and stomp is cool by me. yesterday I had a game yesterday where I was low and I got rapid fired off the ledge at forest mid. my two teammates who were at mid just let the ranger stomp me. didn’t even attack him. it was unreal.

you sound like a cool guy to have on the team.

I been playing a zerker Engi build that can stomp lately, it’s pretty rewarding to blast people down and finish them off. I can give you it, or my pals insane barbarian HGH build if you’re in the mood to make people explode.