the noob is obviously the kited, I mean they are running around uselessly.
the knowledge that some scrub is throthing at their computer because I was able to execute a ‘sick own’ on them is why I love these messages. feed off their rage and frustration, don’t let it bring you up. as long as you’re killing the people whispering you all it is is their own frustration at being such a scrub.
shoutbow has a single stun break, and they will use it for condi cleanse. any rabid Engi should be able to beat a shoutbow if they don’t suck at using slick shoes.
on the topic on counters, it’s build based. just some classes are weaker in particular areas, which makes it hard to build against those weaknesses. look at engineer, you have to run an elixir build to have a chance vs condi. all builds make sacrifices, I can only think of one build with no weaknesses- and happily dire thief is not in pvp.
The question is how long would it take?
Any decent Shoutbow who knows to cleanse poison whenever it applied to you would be able to stall out condition spec for a very long time. There’s a chance that Shoutbow actually out-sustain you if you happened to fight on node. (OP LB F1 + cleansing ire)
that’s why you bait out the shouts and use slick shoes when they are on cd. you can get pry bar, geo swap, confusion from pistol and all of your nades into them while they fall over again and again. they are forced to eat everything you have and they die.
vun is a great cover condi, and with nades it’s reapplied instantly. your condi spam is endless, and ceaseless.
(edited by choovanski.5462)
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
“In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant."
worth a read. might open your mind.
It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure
Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.
The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.
In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)
The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.
just lost all respect for you when you defended thieves not getting revealed when the opponent has ageis. on no level is that fair. it makes backstab basically immune to blinds and unblockable.
shoutbow has a single stun break, and they will use it for condi cleanse. any rabid Engi should be able to beat a shoutbow if they don’t suck at using slick shoes.
on the topic on counters, it’s build based. just some classes are weaker in particular areas, which makes it hard to build against those weaknesses. look at engineer, you have to run an elixir build to have a chance vs condi. all builds make sacrifices, I can only think of one build with no weaknesses- and happily dire thief is not in pvp.
Again that does not work with random people. You cannot expect random people (pugs) to move as a unity as soon as the leader is dead. It just turns instantly into a cloud formation and most people will try to get ooc to waypoint. The rest will die helplessly.
To profit from the 5 people aoe cap you have to stick together or are you heavily disadvantaged.additional commanders are also no solution (not to mention very few people are good enough to start commanding on the fly) since you will not see their tags if you joined the squad of the 1st commander.
^ that is exactly why they are killing your commanders.
I play rabid 2kit a decent amount and it melts face. perhaps it’s your play or build?
QQMORE.NET has a great series on stomps and interrupts. team play elements like those are a good focus.
(edited by choovanski.5462)
“Teef stelt op evade op blink op burst op speed op”. Let’s just delete the class to feed the vanity of these same guys crying day after day about how broken the class supposedly is.
The only thing the stealth needs is a Reveal upon exiting stealth, even if you don’t attack. That would promote active combat and punish the thief if he cannot land a single hit in. That would result in the “Counterplay” a lot of people are asking for, and also solve a lot of back-to-back stealthing issues in WvW as well.
The thief only seems spammy for a non-thief or a low-end one. I would argue a Hambow pulling the same brainless rotation is more of a spam than a good thief with no set rotations that uses all of the skill set close to their maximum potential.
Finally a constructive non biased post. +1 to you sir. I would add that the revealed on block and missed attacks would solve this issues entirely.
PS: Maybe tone down that absurd dodges S/D lol.
OH YEAH PLEASE FIX ECTO STEAL VS MESMERS, its ridiculously strong, all boons for x seconds, every 23.5 seconds.
needs to reveal on block, blind, dodge etc
I’m surprised it’s taken people this long to start doing this. cut the head off the snake, it’s an age old tactic and a really good one.
killshot warriors with piercing are becoming cool on my sever (CD) should be seeing a lot more dead commanders with those around.
Yes, keep using cheesy tactics to make WvW die even faster.
just because you don’t use tactics or your brain doesn’t mean it’s cheesy. it’s not even that smart, it’s actually basic.
yes? what else would it be?
they don’t mean anything really. having no points is bad but that’s about it.
5, They can port around like clowns and get you down when you cant hit the fools
you got a gift bud. keep it up
I’m surprised it’s taken people this long to start doing this. cut the head off the snake, it’s an age old tactic and a really good one.
killshot warriors with piercing are becoming cool on my sever (CD) should be seeing a lot more dead commanders with those around.
shoutbow killed conditions.
… Yep. Pretty much.
It wouldn’t be so bad if Shouthorn couldn’t 1v1 players but burning, poison and celestials made sure that is very possible. Ever fought a Shouthorn with no Sigil of Doom? No threat.
Shoutbow has less condi clear than old bunker guards with pure voice and trooper runes. Group condi clear is nothing new.
Yall rock up an say the warriors support bunker build is hard to kill? Ya think that is worth pointing out?
It’s a shout heal build bud. It’s a group healer in heavy armour, it’s built to be hard to kill it’s the purpose.
Ah, but it’s too faceroll you say. Well, I’ve two responses to that. Firstly is that this a build is the opposite of d/p thief and power necro, in that it’s easy to stay alive on it but harder to kill people. Killing with a shoutbow is much harder than killing with a zerk (obviously killing zerkers who don’t dodge will still be easy, but those are free kills so), but conversely it’s easier to stay alive. Secondly, it’s not faceroll if you fight good players. Unless the build hardcounters that of your opponent no fight where you are both equally skilled should be easy, well unless you are both really bad. Good players will be a challenge regardless of the build you’re running, and scrubs will make everything faceroll. It’s the quality of the opponent that dictates the skill needed to win.
And, not being able to interrupt a 2 sec banner cast….. buddy I’m sorry
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t everyone being carried by their builds?
mending becoming a physical skill and the new changes should shake things up a lot.
Why Necromancer don’t hardcounter anyone? XD
Oh…yeah… we’re bad in spvp…So you’ve never played a condi necro and rolled your face across the keyboard when faced with a condi engi?
What condi engi? Last time I saw Engineer that wasn’t celestial or turret in tpvp match was 5-6 months ago.
I still run rabid 2 kit with slick shoes a good amount. There are few things it can’t take down.
either the most dangerous person, or somone who takes a lot of damage and will die fast. reason being, that unless there is a player (like a power ranger) who just needs to die, you want to make it 5v4 as fast as possible.
engineer is hardcounterd by condition builds, particularly necro. however, it should be noted that these hard counters only come up at an equal skill level, so you can still out play.
that is what i am unhappy about actually.
two equally skilled players, but unfair fight because one happens to be using a class that is hardcountered by another.
Game is not balanced 1v1, and it’s inevitable that it won’t be. See, when a build is crafted it makes sacrifices and those usually become a weakness. When you encounter a build where the focus is on your weakness you will probably lose.
That’s why 2v2 tournaments/arena are much nicer than 1v1, because you can build as a team. Few good duos have obvious hardcounters, as you can build to fill in each others weaknesses.
Why do some people think they weren’t carried by their build? Everyone is. It’s the build that gives us the stats and skills to win. Shoutbow is carried by shouts and cele, as is the thief by teleports and zerker.
It’s no shame to admit builds are important to play, but don’t forget it goes for everyone.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAS8enMdQlH25BmCCnIGoKoQXABwDoqHSfCddKA-TZBBwAkLDw5gAA4BAg5KAUd/BA
That’s the tanky warrior build I play. With no longbow you have to land your earthshaker. Keep up fury and use the Intel sigils well you can hit hard too. It has to be played super aggressively to make up for the lack of longbow. Feel free to whisper me ingame for tips if I’m online.
It’s a shoutbow variation, and it’s meant to be different as opposed to replacing it in the meta. I enjoy this build far more, and it’s the build I win the most on.
If you lose the 2v1 you deserve a ‘lol noob’, because dude you just lost a 2v1 you are a hilarious noob.
Power Ranger is still a must for foefire. I forget which EU team uses one on the map, but it works so well.
engineer is hardcounterd by condition builds, particularly necro. however, it should be noted that these hard counters only come up at an equal skill level, so you can still out play.
Cele is not so good, rabid is much nicer. I’ve run p/p with rabid/dire in wvw and rabid p/p in pvp. It’s our offensive condi weapon set, and it puts out huge condition pressure. Runes of balthazar are a popular choice.
Reducing particle effects would do a lot more for the game than you might think.
we just want arenas or more cap point maps, i play guildwars2 because i dont want to play dota style maps and now with stronghold your forcing a bandwagon upon us probably because of investors
Bring on the arenas! Seriously you could take black citadel’s bane, set up a simple annhiliation round system and bam, new arena gamemode.
Wtf lol. Suggesting anet uses already existing game assets to implement the 2v2/3v3 arena everyone is asking for? Wow, you must think they are sensible or something.
You are going to have to learn how to abuse blinds. http://youtu.be/xHJnBLijRE8 should be helpful.
If they didn’t change anything the SH tourney will be extremely awful
all two minutes of it
Engineer has three builds without kit swapping, HGH, turret, and static discharge (one kit). All three are pvp builds and have big weaknesses. For pve builds will be 2kit minimum and reward swapping. Healing turret, engineer’s best heal requires a three button press combo for the maximum heal, and can even be scaled up to 4+ if you want to argument the heal even further. It’s not a class to play if you don’t want to press a lot of buttons.
Warrior is much more relaxed, but unfortunately the rifle is poor. The damage is low, and the utility is almost nonexistent. It’s only saving grace is killshot, which only really sees use in wvw. It’s an awful weapon for dungeons, and you will be more than likely told not to use it. Pvp doesn’t allow for stats as high as wvw so killshot is not that great there, plus you no longer have the advantage of mobility + range + open field. I really wish warrior rifle did more damage, but it just doesn’t.
You can play engineer without kit swapping, but you will underperform heavily, especially in pvp. That’s not saying don’t do it, but it’s like playing a stealthless thief. I would suggest trying kits out if you do decide to persevere with engineer, it’s actually really fun when you get the hang of it. You have a huge amount of skills at your disposal, and they are all useful.
and now you cant use 2 traits from the same tire is you what to, and that limits builds allot…
This is the worst part imo
ETA on PvP coming back out of beta? Any smug ArenaNet devs available to comment?
shhhh just wait for the npc race where you can win with no player kills. hush now it will be just npcs to kill no more tears.
idk. i know people that are bad enough that they could throw 12 consecutive games.
for example, i know i guy who plays an awful fresh air ele and rages all the time. he loses games constantly and blames teammates, but even just hearing the teamspeak you can tell it’s his bad play bringing the team down.
Wasted time is just a perspective dude. It’s all just concepts and made up rules. All value is assigned.
Unethical… really? That’s funny. What makes it unethical?
Also, VoIP just cuts out typing but still does the same thing, communication. As far as knowing an increase is coming to a point just take a glance at the radar and see that. Hell most of the time people in VoIP are just talking bullkitten not actual game breaking strategy.
But you know what I think in unfair. Having a better computer and internet connection than me. Being less resistant due to having a better socio-economic position is unethical and unfair. What do you say to that?
Anet already mentions optimum PC stats on their website. So it’s all up front and in writing. And if you say that VoIP cuts out typing, I would say that macros simply cut out having to press several keys instead of one. Yet macros are deemed cheating. Did you wonder why?
I can’t believe you are arguing this point. All the top teams in NA and EU use voice coms. All tournament teams use voice coms, it’s not cheating bud.
What you’re saying boils down to “It’s being done so it’s ok”. Maybe it’s time to rethink this then? Maybe it’s time Anet stops a blatantly unfair practice solely because it is unfair?
Or just separate the queues and let solo players live in peace.
Buddy, anet knows teams are on voice coms. It’s not a secret. I’m sure a net would encourage it, and I’m absolutely sure they don’t consider it unfair or cheating. If it was cheating they would have to ban everyone who plays in tournaments, most of the wvw community, and many others (including me and my whole guild).
Competitive team video games will have people using voice coms. It’s essential if you want your team to be well coordinated.
Unethical… really? That’s funny. What makes it unethical?
Also, VoIP just cuts out typing but still does the same thing, communication. As far as knowing an increase is coming to a point just take a glance at the radar and see that. Hell most of the time people in VoIP are just talking bullkitten not actual game breaking strategy.
But you know what I think in unfair. Having a better computer and internet connection than me. Being less resistant due to having a better socio-economic position is unethical and unfair. What do you say to that?
Anet already mentions optimum PC stats on their website. So it’s all up front and in writing. And if you say that VoIP cuts out typing, I would say that macros simply cut out having to press several keys instead of one. Yet macros are deemed cheating. Did you wonder why?
I can’t believe you are arguing this point. All the top teams in NA and EU use voice coms. All tournament teams use voice coms, it’s not cheating bud.
People work 9-5 in a job they hate until they die. Who’s to say what’s wasted time anyhow? Is is what you do or what you get out of it?
Ultimately it’s all just chemicals and electricity in the grey matter.
Honestly, though, what do we expect from a game where people can win a 50k pvp tournament by being lucky enough to be the last hit on an npc?
^ that is literally video games though.
It wouldn’t be if we had 3v3 arenas Kappa
Well, I’ve always wanted 2v2 arena, but I’ll take what I can get.
Oh, turns out all we can get is NPC DEATH RACEEEEE how’s that guys?
Honestly, though, what do we expect from a game where people can win a 50k pvp tournament by being lucky enough to be the last hit on an npc?
^ that is literally video games though.
I changed my game audio to French years ago. I would never go back. It has improved the feel of this game to no end.
http://youtu.be/90L5Rw1YdwQ
Example of good defiant stance use. Condi dmg to health would be a nice addition to the skill, but it’s still a hard to use heal. BlackTruth really is the only person I’ve seen to make the heal work, hopefully he inputs something of use here.
Regardless surge and mending are getting buffed by being transformed into a shout and physical skill respectively. I will be running surge on my shout warrior when the patch hits, and 16sec cd mending with the new physical skills buffs should bring zerker warrior back. I’m so pumped for the warrior changes I don’t care about the elite specification.
dude it looks like you just got outplayed
lol… you know who Orange Logo are right…
Yeah, I’ve done this a bunch of times.
From the sounds of it I’m playing the wrong class. I really like using a rifle but it seems this class gets really complex later on. The wiki says that warrior and engineer are the only two classes that can use rifles. How does a warrior’s rifle capabilities compare to an engineer’s? Are rifle warriors viable? How are they in terms of complexity?
rifle warrior is good for WvW gimmick builds and nothing else. it pales in comparison to the longbow in every regard. generally people will think you are a troll if you use warrior rifle.
So you would either need to have someone sitting in a tower at all times to man guns, or make the guns automatic and powerful enough to take out any ship approaching which would make the ships pointless…. It feels like you didn’t really think this idea through before posting.
What’s next? Battle dinosaurs to activate a super weapon that will simultaneously fire lasers at all of the enemies objectives?
treb the AA then send in the airships. force fields and many other things are options too.
an EotM style map with much more space between islands, less bridges and airships would be amazing. build airships with supply, load up your guild group and fly to the enemy islands. midair boarding, crashes, guild fleets, so much potential for amazing moments.
You’re complaining that there are more premades?? Oh lord save this community! We’re supposed to ENCOURAGE party play. Sheesh how else is this supposed to get more competitive.
And what is the huge benefit of party play? Why is it superior to non-party play?
Well, it’s a team game, so an actual team is going to be better than 5 random. This is a team game, not a solo one. Anyone who is sensible or serious about pvp should be looking to form teams.
I’ve been playing with a mesmer main lately, and we’ve been able to do some great portal plays. It’s transformed the whole game and added a new tactical level. Awesome stuff, cool guy as well.
Grats on beating random pugs with your tactics lol.
Oh and solo queue is still a team game, just no VOIP MASSIVE edge.
solo que was deleted. anyone can queue with a party on voice coms, it’s not hard. i can’t help the fact most people want to play a 5v5 team game solo. all top teams in all games use voice coms, hell every server in this game has it’s own teamspeak for wvw. team games need communication, and voice is just the best.
i’m not going to not use coms and not party with people just because it gives us an advantage over people who won’t. they should do it too. it’s a kittening team game form a team.
i love it – i started on an ele – didn’t really know what i was doing – switched to ranger – played a few hundred games – learned something about the other classes by playing against them – switched to engi – played a few more hundred gamed – learned some more – made a guard, warrior and necro to play around on, now i’m back on ele and finally i kinda know what i’m doing although i have a long way to go
my point is stick to it – pvp is a very steep learning curve that takes many months of hardcore or probably many years of soft core play to master
i’m mixed about rewards – if you are a hardcore pvper you can get dungeon rewards like amu’s much faster then doing them in pve – but other loot and loot boxes are WAYYYY less then what you can get from wvw or pve
^ exactly. The learning curve for this game is really really big. There is an immense amount of knowledge about skills, classes, boons, cool downs, builds, animations, etc that you need to have to know what to do in a situation. Then you have to have enough skill with your class to pull it off. Guild Wars 2 pvp is not pick up and go. You will need 100s of games, and will have to do a lot of reading to get even average.
Duels, steamers, and guides are all great Duels for improvement. Duling people who you are on TS with and getting feedback, and spectating their actions is really helpful.
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