Guild Wars 2

Ruprect.7260:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Having dueling arenas would be fine with me. Put them in the major cities other than LA, maybe the population would spread out a bit. Oh, and don’t put a PoI, vista or skill challenge in these arenas. I do not want dueling everywhere because people will duel in some places just to annoy others.

As to people whispering you to duel, that’s what block is for.

It gets old blocking numerous ppl everyday. Especially when I rarely have to block anyone now. The first idioot to ask me to duel for all my stuff would cause me to ragequit the game.

I can’t wait to ask you when we get custom arenas, lol!

ScottBroChill.3254:

For my rit I used a spirit weapon build with splinters and barrage using a bow, spirit spammer build offensive/defensive/utility, item dropping build with glaive or kuurong, my restoration builds which could use any number of elites and skills and be effective only really requiring weapon of warding, spirit strength builds with daggers or spears, or just a straight up channeling build with spirit rift and ancestors rage. Minion bomber or minion master builds with necro secondary.

Now to my ele builds. Obsidian flesh for some mad tanking along with the other defensive skills, maelstrom and deep freeze with blurred vision and the rest of the bar was up to me, then basically most skills from nightfall were awesome and usable, invoke lightening builds, searing flames builds with all the fire aoe combined with deep freeze, use the ele’s energy pool and glyph of lesser energy to make a build of almost all other classes skills, infuse healer builds with ether renewal.

Show me where I have no build diversity in gw1. I could literally find something that worked for everything I wanted to do with great diversity and personalization.

Saying there was no build diversity in GW1 is like saying that gravity doesn’t exist. It just isn’t true.

ophidic.1279:

lordkrall.7241:

clay.7849:

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. LOL!

Seriously, just because you don’t like the OP or disagree with him doesn’t mean it’s a troll post. There are plenty of people that have beef with the game.

The OP is however doing more or less the definition of trolling with that post.

It basically is. There’s been a million of these.

If it was the same person, I would agree. However, it is different people and they have all realized that something about this game isn’t fun for them – and they have the right to post about that feeling for the the devs to see without the need of being called a troll.

I’m pretty sure we are going to see custom arenas soon, which will allow people to do dueling.

Jski.6180:

Conncept.7638:

Jski.6180:

Starbird.4029:

But I’m sure there are workarounds for condition caps? I mean WoW had the same problem and it was fixed…8 years ago.

Different game different reason and different fixes. Condition dmg is the best type of dmg in this type of game (it still ticks during rolls and there are far few ways to make it last as long) or it should be but some classes are able to removed it too effectively mainly ele.

What? Who told you that? A full condition damage/duration build will do, on average 30% less damage per second than a full power/crit build, without even factoring in all the games condition removals.

That’s also not taking in to account that the most tanky classes in the game, who are supposed to be countered by condition damage, also have the most condition removals. Have you ever tried a condition build against a bunker guardian? It seems like it would be the optimal way with dealing with one because they still take damage during blocks and through walls, and it ignores their armor. Except that a guardian can just lay down a light field, which it has on four different weapons and 3 different utility skills, and remove conditions as fast as any build can put them on. The same thing goes for the elementalist and the necromancer. In fact the warrior is the only ‘tanky’ class that doesn’t have condition removers coming out it’s wazoo.

In an active game the dmg that can not be blocked or avoided by rolls becomes the best type of dmg. You only need to hit the first part of the attk when it comes to condition dmg where other types of dmg must be hit each time to land good dps.

What if they dodge or block the attacks that deal the conditions or they simply get removed?

In PvP there is a good chance if the conditions are threatening, they will be removed quickly. In PvE, mobs generally don’t block or dodge.

Your argument is rather moot. Both mathematically and from experience, direct damage is much much better than conditions in this game. And it’s not even close.

Shootsfoot.9276:

As it stands now the current strategery is “just run, don’t fight.”

GW2 isn’t the only game with this problem. Trash mobs are trash mobs, if you can run past them, usually people will. If mobs held aggro longer/further, you would see this kind of thing disappear.

Siphaed.9235:

Moderator.1462:

Hi everyone,

We would like to aks you to not derail the thread. The discussion is about fun, not about the team or their situation. Please refrain from going off topic.

Thanks for your understanding.

No, it’s not. It’s about the Original Poster trolling these forums about a hate-grudge against Guild Wars 2.

dan matthews.2736:

lets discuss who is actually enjoying the game at level 80. also, do you consider this game a grind? in my opinion, people are leaving this game because its incredible boring and grindfest at level 80. what do you guys think?

Seems that’s not only obvious hate-grudge, but it’s also spreading misinformation and lies. Trying to say that tons of people are leaving this game and hate it, all sharing the same opinion the Original Poster tries to pass on as fact. This is not true at all. This thread itself, which was made to spark flame wars, should end.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. LOL!

Seriously, just because you don’t like the OP or disagree with him doesn’t mean it’s a troll post. There are plenty of people that have beef with the game.

Vorch.2985:

FoW and UW are quite different now from release, back when FoW armor cost an arm and a leg.

That’s what I am trying to get at. GW1’s best days weren’t later on, they were early on. Combat in GW1 took a nosedive after each expansion.

It would be bad form to say GW1’s combat system was bad just based on one period of the game’s life and not to account for the good parts of that game’s life.

Vayne.8563:

Nick.6972:

Most of the classes/skills in GW2 are not balanced too, GW1 wasn’t balanced, but at least it offered more diversity, hell, how hard was it to increase the Shadow Form CD to 1 minute as it was back in 2007?

There is such a huge difference in the type of imbalance we’re talking about here. The way Guild Wars 1 was set up, there was just no possible way to balance it. I mean, you think 4 zerker warriors and a mesmer are anything like a perma-sin, or a rank 8 ursan? Totally different level of unbalanced.

Imagine if you told Guild Wars 2 players today that a character could make himself immune to damage permanently. Or that a single player, like an imbagon paragon could mitigate 90% of the parties incoming damage with almost 100% up time. People would think you were mad.

Yes, this game has some balance issues, but they’re nowhere near as bad as the stuff that came up in Guild Wars 1.

Balance became a problem after they introduced new skills and classes, which GW2 has neither done and which you yourself agree they should not do without balancing things first.

The fact is that GW1 WAS balanced early in the game. It was much more balanced in the first year of prophecies than GW2 is now in its first year.

aspirine.6852:

Some of you keep on comparing GW2, just one game with gw1 with full expansion. I don’t think that’s fair. Come up with competetive build with only prophecies skills and talk about build diversity. I still think the dual professions was more part of the build diversity than the skills of the class itself.

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/gwwc/

@Vorch

I was running FoW and UW quite fine before those skills even made it into the game. So, yea, about what you said…

The depth of combat in PvE will be lost quickly in any game as people figure out a way to exploit PvE AI. This is nothing specific to GW1 and has less to do with combat mechanics and more to do with enemy AI.

cherrie.8907:

GW1 skill system was, to some extent, repeated in The Secret World and quite succesfully I’d like to say.

Classes – one of the sources of imbalance – are not present in TSW; instead, every player can use every combination of skill with same effectiveness.

There are 9 (main) weapons, you can equip 2 at a time to have access to active skills they are linked to (you can only use active skill from of the weapon you have equipped). Passive skills you can use regardless of what weapon you have equipped.

While tehre are less skills in TSW than in GW1, deck (TSW name for build) building is much more in-depth and I have yet to see the great imbalance I remember from GW1, or from GW2 when I still played it.

Add to that the fact that TSW treats it’s players as more intelligent than the chair they are sitting in and dungeons are actually great: no, GW2 has not hooked me up either, it was a gaming dissapointment of the decade for me, but TSW hooked me up from day one so much that I bought Lifetime AFTER they went F2P.

Everything I keep reading really makes me inclined to check out TSW.

Honestly, if ANet wanted to get rid of the trinity, they should have abolished the whole class system to begin with. As it stands now, we still have the same LF Zerker Warrior, LF Mesmer, etc. just like we have LF Monk in GW1.

It will continue to get worse as a meta is formed to complete content, in fact it really has been formed already. If you aren’t a warrior, guardian or mesmer in PvE, it is getting more difficult to find PUGS. It won’t be long until that spills over into more and more of the game as people get more familiar with the game and cease to do things for the fun of it and do it merely for the reward.

killcannon.2576:

clay.7849:

killcannon.2576:

clay.7849:

killcannon.2576:

clay.7849:

danbuter.2314:

rizzo.1079:

Your post makes many good points, ESPECIALLY about dungeons.

Just a tip about making money: I’ve went from 0 to 44 gold in the bank this week. How? Wandering around normally, doing 3-4 events/day that give a boss chest and running through about 200 jewelery boxes. It’s seriously easy to make money once you stop spending it to level alts and crafting, and the jewelery boxes make karma actually useful for something.

What’s a jewelry box/ Seriously, I’m missing out on this!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lost_Orrian_Jewelry_Box

Although, there are better ways to make gold from Karma.

For example,

Making Omnomberry Bars nets around 3-4 gold per 1k karma.
Bowl of Baker’s Wet Ingredients is sitting around 2.5g per 1k karma.
Omnomberry Pie….3.5g per 1k karma
Raspberry Peach Bars…4-5g per 1k karma
Rare Unidentified Gray Dye…. 50s – 1g per 1k karma
Bowl of Dilled Cream Sauce… 5-6g per 1k karma

This is all based on today’s market from TP.

There are other ways as well…

How do you make those from karma?

Check out the recipes. You can’t not make them from Karma.

lol. This post is about as misleading as you can get. Because one item or so is bought with karma in a recipe, the entire recipe is not made from Karma.

Whatever you want to believe. The fact is, on a per karma basis, the recipes will net you more copper/silver/gold per karma than Orrian Jewelry boxes.

I never said that you could make gold from just Karma, but in the process of making those recipes, you will need to use Karma and it is a way to turn it in to gold.

Just because you thought something I didn’t say doesn’t make it misleading. It just makes you bad at reading and comprehension.

lol whatever you say.

I’m sorry, did my genuinely helpful post that does indeed net you more gold per karma than orrian jewelry boxes offend you or are you just that condescending and rude normally?

Jski.6180:

Starbird.4029:

But I’m sure there are workarounds for condition caps? I mean WoW had the same problem and it was fixed…8 years ago.

Different game different reason and different fixes. Condition dmg is the best type of dmg in this type of game (it still ticks during rolls and there are far few ways to make it last as long) or it should be but some classes are able to removed it too effectively mainly ele.

Are we playing the same game?

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

darkace.8925:

clay.7849:

Even getting into PvP wasn’t hard. There were some easy to run builds like iWay that provided a low barrier of entry to get into HA but weren’t OP enough to cause any real problems for higher skilled players.

I got into Guild Wars after Eye of the North was released. In my first – and not coincidentally, last – attempt to PvP I joined match in the Random Arena with a hammer toting warrior/ranger (being new, the skills I had unlocked were limited).

In an attempt to prepare myself and minimize the “dead weight” effect I might have on my teammates I had read all I could. But reading about something and doing it during an actual (especially your first) match are two different things. I struggled, as any reasonable person would expect.

How did my teammates, veterans I’m sure, respond? Not with words of encouragement. Not with tips for improvement. But with a demand I quit. And when I didn’t, explaining to them I’ve got to learn somehow, they reported me for leaching.

I’m sure there were some very nice people who played the game, but the “it was easy to get into” notion with which you remember Guild Wars isn’t quite the walk in the park you remember it to be.

You seem to miss the whole point of my post that I was talking about early in GW1’s existence, not later. Much of the PvP scene had become disenchanted by the problems of balance associated with the addition of new classes and skills in each new expansion. By the time you tried to get into PvP, I agree that it was a much different scene (and IMO worse) than during Prophecies and even Factions.

Which is why I don’t really want to see a repeat of the Guild Wars 1 skill system again. No matter what, it’s just too hard to balance. People say this game is in unbalanced, but Guild Wars 1 was also..probably in different ways.

Basically people are going to want Anet to keep adding skills. By starting with what you had in Prophecies, and then having to expand it, you end up with a system with too many skills, too hard to balance.

By starting small, and hopefully getting the balance right over time, Anet might be able to stop this thing happening in Guild Wars 2…might being the operative word.

I agree with this. One thing that people forget is that Prophecies WAS balanced. It allowed a really great amount of semi-OP builds that provided a nice way to enter into PvP without getting completely owned, but at the same time were not very threatening to highly skilled players.

Unfortunately, I don’t think the things people didn’t like about GW1 stay out of GW2. We already have groups that are asking for specific classes, builds and even play styles. CoF P1 is the most prominent one, but they exist almost everywhere and will continue to get worse, and we are less than a year in.

darkace.8925:

clay.7849:

Even getting into PvP wasn’t hard. There were some easy to run builds like iWay that provided a low barrier of entry to get into HA but weren’t OP enough to cause any real problems for higher skilled players.

I got into Guild Wars after Eye of the North was released. In my first – and not coincidentally, last – attempt to PvP I joined match in the Random Arena with a hammer toting warrior/ranger (being new, the skills I had unlocked were limited).

In an attempt to prepare myself and minimize the “dead weight” effect I might have on my teammates I had read all I could. But reading about something and doing it during an actual (especially your first) match are two different things. I struggled, as any reasonable person would expect.

How did my teammates, veterans I’m sure, respond? Not with words of encouragement. Not with tips for improvement. But with a demand I quit. And when I didn’t, explaining to them I’ve got to learn somehow, they reported me for leaching.

I’m sure there were some very nice people who played the game, but the “it was easy to get into” notion with which you remember Guild Wars isn’t quite the walk in the park you remember it to be.

You seem to miss the whole point of my post that I was talking about early in GW1’s existence, not later. Much of the PvP scene had become disenchanted by the problems of balance associated with the addition of new classes and skills in each new expansion. By the time you tried to get into PvP, I agree that it was a much different scene (and IMO worse) than during Prophecies and even Factions.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Do you know why Guild Wars 1 lost so many players? Because starting that game after the fact became really really hard.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Yep, you’re right. Let me correct that I said, hang on. Do you know one of the reasons that Guild Wars 1 lost so many players in my opinion? Because starting the game after the fact became really really hard.

There you go, all fixed.

I think we made some real progress today.

If this keeps up, I can stop trolling.

It does get tiring, the hours are ungodly and the pay is kitten poor.

I think I liked you better when you were trolling lol.

Sadist.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Do you know why Guild Wars 1 lost so many players? Because starting that game after the fact became really really hard.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Yep, you’re right. Let me correct that I said, hang on. Do you know one of the reasons that Guild Wars 1 lost so many players in my opinion? Because starting the game after the fact became really really hard.

There you go, all fixed.

I think we made some real progress today.

If this keeps up, I can stop trolling.

It does get tiring, the hours are ungodly and the pay is kitten poor.

Vayne.8563:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Do you know why Guild Wars 1 lost so many players? Because starting that game after the fact became really really hard.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Yep, you’re right. Let me correct that I said, hang on. Do you know one of the reasons that Guild Wars 1 lost so many players in my opinion? Because starting the game after the fact became really really hard.

There you go, all fixed.

That is much better. Thank you.

killcannon.2576:

clay.7849:

killcannon.2576:

clay.7849:

danbuter.2314:

rizzo.1079:

Your post makes many good points, ESPECIALLY about dungeons.

Just a tip about making money: I’ve went from 0 to 44 gold in the bank this week. How? Wandering around normally, doing 3-4 events/day that give a boss chest and running through about 200 jewelery boxes. It’s seriously easy to make money once you stop spending it to level alts and crafting, and the jewelery boxes make karma actually useful for something.

What’s a jewelry box/ Seriously, I’m missing out on this!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lost_Orrian_Jewelry_Box

Although, there are better ways to make gold from Karma.

For example,

Making Omnomberry Bars nets around 3-4 gold per 1k karma.
Bowl of Baker’s Wet Ingredients is sitting around 2.5g per 1k karma.
Omnomberry Pie….3.5g per 1k karma
Raspberry Peach Bars…4-5g per 1k karma
Rare Unidentified Gray Dye…. 50s – 1g per 1k karma
Bowl of Dilled Cream Sauce… 5-6g per 1k karma

This is all based on today’s market from TP.

There are other ways as well…

How do you make those from karma?

Check out the recipes. You can’t not make them from Karma.

lol. This post is about as misleading as you can get. Because one item or so is bought with karma in a recipe, the entire recipe is not made from Karma.

Whatever you want to believe. The fact is, on a per karma basis, the recipes will net you more copper/silver/gold per karma than Orrian Jewelry boxes.

I never said that you could make gold from just Karma, but in the process of making those recipes, you will need to use Karma and it is a way to turn it in to gold.

Just because you thought something I didn’t say doesn’t make it misleading. It just makes you bad at reading and comprehension.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Actually one of my guildies has a daughter that just got a job with Anet. Unless she’s lying to me, which I suppose is possible, well, they’re hiring. And yes, I’m not making this up. Against all the odds, someone in my guild has told me their daughter got a job with Anet. I almost wish she didn’t because it sounds like something I invented.

All you’re doing it trying to refute reasonable believes by saying this may not be true, or this might not mean something. It’s still more evidence that something is true than not. You don’t want to see it, but most other people probably can.

Great. They hired one person. ONE PERSON.

Do you know if they fired anyone? Do you really know how much the NCSoft layoffs IN SEATTLE WHERE ANET IS BASED had an effect on ANet?

Again, just because they are hiring doesn’t mean that the population is doing well. Maybe the person they need to hire is because the last guy quit to go work on the zombie MMO that everyone else left to go do.

I’m not gonna say I don’t believe you. I actually believe everything you say as in you observe the things you say and you aren’t making them up. I believe you when you say that you were an editor and that you follow MMOs closely and that you have done lots of studying into the LOTR trilogy.

What I just don’t agree with is that your anecdotal evidence is any more powerful than anyone else’s anecdotal evidence, and it doesn’t give you the right to tell people their opinion is wrong when you don’t know the truth either.

You’re missing the point. They hired one person (or are in the process of, they’ve given her a project), out of the people in my guild. If that were the ONLY person they were hiring the odds of that person being in my guild would be astronomical. In fact, even without that, if they were hiring 20-30 guys the odds would be highly against it.

So if one person in my guild has a daughter being employed by Anet, then what are the odds she’s the only one?

Again, if the Anet staff laid off people we’d have heard about it. We heard about it from every other game. Why wouldn’t we hear about it from Anet? You say what if a whole lot, but in reality, it’s just guessing.

Vayne, what do you want me to say. You’re right. There is obviously no way possible that this game is doing poorly, all signs point to go and it obviously is impervious to failing. In fact, the game is doing so well that the people who have had entire guilds quit on them or have friends lists that no longer light up and just wrong about what they see. They must just not play the game the right way or at the right time…

Is that what you want to hear? That there is no chance that you are wrong and that anyone who says the game might be doing poorly is so obviously wrong that we should ridicule them and banish them from the forums?

I don’t disagree that there is evidence that the game is doing well. I also don’t disagree that there is evidence that the game is losing population fast.

I have a reason I believe what I believe and I’m tired of discussing it, but I just can’t get over your insistence to make people feel stupid for feeling something because of the same reasons you feel something – because of their experience.

When we can get past that, and the fact that I don’t have an opinion because I haven’t played enough MMO’s, I think that you are an intelligent enough person to have a meaningful conversation with. You just do a terrible job of trying to make your opinion more important and “right” than everyone else’s

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

ScottBroChill.3254:

But it was barely farming dude. The only time I farmed was the last week before perma stealth got nerfed because I don’t usually farm but felt that If I played gw1 for so long and didn’t get the kitten ele obsidian armor I would be dissapointed in myself. I farmed for like 4 days and had like 70 ectos or something and used the rest of what I saved up that hadn’t been spent on weapons and elite armor for the rest of the materials and money need to buy it.

The difference is in gw2, instead of having a multitude of different options to make money for the specific thing you want, you have to farm the same thing over and over and over. It’s basically worse than ecto farming I’ll tell you that much.

Btw vayne personal opinion. Don’t get all bottom hurt about it, dude.

I just wanted to correct you about how you said it was incredibly hard for beginners in gw1 to make money near the end, when in fact, it wasn’t. I bought like 4 sets of elite armors just from playing alliance battles selling amber I made, and doing missions and selling gold unids I didn’t need. If you identified and sold all your drops you didn’t need you easily made money and the market wasn’t that unstable.

The lack of vertical progression and the ease of getting cheap green weapons and being just as powerful as someone with a perfect req. 9 fellblade was one of the best features of GW1 in the sense that you didn’t need money to be decked out in max stat gear.

There was very little monetary requirements in the game to be as effective as anyone else. The only thing that really mattered was skill. Skill, that is sorely missing from GW2.

I agree with this, actually. You didn’t need as much money in Guild Wars 1. But there’s still people with chaos gloves dancing around in LA and you’d say, oh those are cool where did you get those.

And they’re like it’s easy all you need it to get 80 ectos. Do you know how hard it was for a new person to get 80 ectos? Even if you wanted to farm the Underworld so many groups didn’t want to play with a noob.

Vayne, I wish you played GW1 earlier. Honestly.

The game you describe to me, which was after I left, sounds awful. Seriously. And, I hear it from a lot of people and I think they played well after Nightfall was released.

I never had a problem getting in a group and I was never denied entry to a group based on my build. Sure, we all made fun of Healing Breeze Warriors, but PvX Wiki wasn’t around and there generally weren’t speed runs or anything like that. At least, I never experienced it.

Even getting into PvP wasn’t hard. There were some easy to run builds like iWay that provided a low barrier of entry to get into HA but weren’t OP enough to cause any real problems for higher skilled players.

GW1, IMO, went downhill with each expansion, and many of the problems people have with GW1, IMO, are the same problems I had or would have had with it. But it wasn’t always like that.

Anyways, the same thing can happen to GW2 now that I think about it. CoF Part 1 is a good example. It is tough to create content that isn’t going to get the “you need to run it this way” treatment – especially as certain areas are dubbed more profitable than others. Basically, it isn’t just a GW1 problem, it is an MMO problem.

tolunart.2095:

Zaxares.5419:

I do wonder how many keys ANet sells each day though. People are still buying BLCs, so they must be consumed somehow.

Generally speaking, the kind of people who spend major cash trying to get the RNG skins and items from the chests are not people who come here to talk about it. Suffice it to say that based on real-world lottery ticket sales, a relatively small number of people spend a huge amount of money on them. Enough that Anet is not going to motivated to hand out more keys for free than they already do.

As an aside, because it made me think of it. I once downloaded and played a real Pay to Win game on my iPhone because it got good reviews.

I never spent money on the game and didn’t play for long, but during my time playing, there was a person who you could mathematically determine spent at least $2,000 at a very minimum to achieve they things they did.

Needless to say, most people were shocked and appalled and it made me realize that people will pay stupid amounts of money for fairly dumb reasons.

Vayne.8563:

Actually one of my guildies has a daughter that just got a job with Anet. Unless she’s lying to me, which I suppose is possible, well, they’re hiring. And yes, I’m not making this up. Against all the odds, someone in my guild has told me their daughter got a job with Anet. I almost wish she didn’t because it sounds like something I invented.

All you’re doing it trying to refute reasonable believes by saying this may not be true, or this might not mean something. It’s still more evidence that something is true than not. You don’t want to see it, but most other people probably can.

Great. They hired one person. ONE PERSON.

Do you know if they fired anyone? Do you really know how much the NCSoft layoffs IN SEATTLE WHERE ANET IS BASED had an effect on ANet?

Again, just because they are hiring doesn’t mean that the population is doing well. Maybe the person they need to hire is because the last guy quit to go work on the zombie MMO that everyone else left to go do.

I’m not gonna say I don’t believe you. I actually believe everything you say as in you observe the things you say and you aren’t making them up. I believe you when you say that you were an editor and that you follow MMOs closely and that you have done lots of studying into the LOTR trilogy.

What I just don’t agree with is that your anecdotal evidence is any more powerful than anyone else’s anecdotal evidence, and it doesn’t give you the right to tell people their opinion is wrong when you don’t know the truth either.

ScottBroChill.3254:

But it was barely farming dude. The only time I farmed was the last week before perma stealth got nerfed because I don’t usually farm but felt that If I played gw1 for so long and didn’t get the kitten ele obsidian armor I would be dissapointed in myself. I farmed for like 4 days and had like 70 ectos or something and used the rest of what I saved up that hadn’t been spent on weapons and elite armor for the rest of the materials and money need to buy it.

The difference is in gw2, instead of having a multitude of different options to make money for the specific thing you want, you have to farm the same thing over and over and over. It’s basically worse than ecto farming I’ll tell you that much.

Btw vayne personal opinion. Don’t get all bottom hurt about it, dude.

I just wanted to correct you about how you said it was incredibly hard for beginners in gw1 to make money near the end, when in fact, it wasn’t. I bought like 4 sets of elite armors just from playing alliance battles selling amber I made, and doing missions and selling gold unids I didn’t need. If you identified and sold all your drops you didn’t need you easily made money and the market wasn’t that unstable.

The lack of vertical progression and the ease of getting cheap green weapons and being just as powerful as someone with a perfect req. 9 fellblade was one of the best features of GW1 in the sense that you didn’t need money to be decked out in max stat gear.

There was very little monetary requirements in the game to be as effective as anyone else. The only thing that really mattered was skill. Skill, that is sorely missing from GW2.

Vayne.8563:

It’s also a fact that Anet is currently hiring. If it laid off people we’d have heard about it.

Not a known fact. The FACT is that they have hiring posts up. Not that they are actually hiring. Many companies having posts looking to hire people without hiring anyone to fill the post. In fact, that has been in the news. We do not know that they have filled any positions or that they have in fact hired anyone.

Another fact is that servers were expanded. I know people say that Anet can say anything and they might be lying, but considering some people actually saw the population on all the servers go from high to medium at the same time lends support to the fact that Anet has had to expand how many people can be on each server.

It is not a fact that making servers bigger is a result of needing more people to be active on the server, merely that more accounts can be on the server. It is a FACT that server size is account based not activity based.

Edit: Not to mention we know the game is doing well from the NcSoft quarterly report which anyone can read if they wanted to. But it’s just faster to say it’s not doing well. One of us provided something besides anecdotal evidence.

Evidence of the game selling well in the first full quarter after release is not an indication that the population is doing well.

See, this is how arguments work. You are entitled to your opinion that the game is doing well. However, there are counter arguments to all of the details you use to uphold your idea that your opinion is more valid than the opinion that the game is not doing well.

I am not saying that you opinion is wrong. I’m saying that your opinion is no more valid than the opinion that the game is doing poorly and that you “evidence” can easily be dismissed just as easily as you dismiss the evidence people use to say the game is doing poorly.

Why don’t we just wait and see instead of having this same conversation over and over and over again?

killcannon.2576:

clay.7849:

danbuter.2314:

rizzo.1079:

Your post makes many good points, ESPECIALLY about dungeons.

Just a tip about making money: I’ve went from 0 to 44 gold in the bank this week. How? Wandering around normally, doing 3-4 events/day that give a boss chest and running through about 200 jewelery boxes. It’s seriously easy to make money once you stop spending it to level alts and crafting, and the jewelery boxes make karma actually useful for something.

What’s a jewelry box/ Seriously, I’m missing out on this!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lost_Orrian_Jewelry_Box

Although, there are better ways to make gold from Karma.

For example,

Making Omnomberry Bars nets around 3-4 gold per 1k karma.
Bowl of Baker’s Wet Ingredients is sitting around 2.5g per 1k karma.
Omnomberry Pie….3.5g per 1k karma
Raspberry Peach Bars…4-5g per 1k karma
Rare Unidentified Gray Dye…. 50s – 1g per 1k karma
Bowl of Dilled Cream Sauce… 5-6g per 1k karma

This is all based on today’s market from TP.

There are other ways as well…

How do you make those from karma?

Check out the recipes. You can’t not make them from Karma.

Vayne.8563:

Do you know why Guild Wars 1 lost so many players? Because starting that game after the fact became really really hard. Everyone had a zillion gold and could charge anything they wanted for anything. New people could never hope to catch up. That’s why karma was such a good idea. You can get a lot of stuff for karma, without having to spend gold.

I didn’t realize that was the reason that GW1 lost so many players. Mind posting to the proof of that?

I thought it was because they stopped making expansions for the game and decided to make GW2.

Also, another thing to note, no matter what game you play anywhere, there will always be a best way found to do something in PvE. Saying that GW1 specifically was easy because you could find ways to roll content on PvX Wiki is a flawed argument because we can say that about any game.

The combat in GW1 had way more depth to it than GW2 combat has or can have based on damage being the only strong component to this game,

PvE felt like PvP in GW1 because the mobs were generally using the same skills and had the same kind of party components as you. In fact, when there were multiple mesmers/monks in the mobs, PvE could be quite challenging. The same cannot be said for GW2.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Think about it… people would have to stop trolling and really plan their daily posts carefully. Might lead to actual discussion, instead of the fanboi-apologist-trolling we are subjected to now.

This is an excellent suggestion.

Agreed.

Vayne.8563:

Drew.1865:

clay.7849:

killcannon.2576:

I really think Vayne and Clay need their own forum section. Then Anet could box it and sell it.

Personally, I just like trolling Vayne because he has a habit of telling people they are wrong without any proof.

Otherwise, I would be quite content to discuss what I think this game does well, what it doesn’t do well, why, and how to make it better.

Unfortunately, that is near impossible because of all the fanboys that get insulted that someone thinks their game isn’t perfect.

Ultimately, all I really care about is that PvP become as good as it was in GW1. For this to happen, combat needs to be better and we need some new objectives. Fortunately, I think these things could actually happen if the devs decided they wanted to do them. Unfortunately, I don’t know that these things are a priority. But, I’m sure someone will come along in their infinite wisdom and say something like PvP doesn’t sell and dismiss the whole idea before it gets started. THAT is the kind of thing I despise.

Other than that, it is quite funny to rile up the fanboys, especially the ringleader.

Omg this made me lol! So true clay lol.

At least he can admit that he’s trolling me. I’ve known it all along, but it puts a lot of what he does and says in perspective, and makes me question the veracity of everything he says.

I’m the ying to your yang. Together, we balance the universe. :P

Vayne doesn’t like it either when you say that MMOs in general don’t live up to expectations and there is no evidence that GW2 will be any different. Actually making a game that will last a long time is the exception and not the norm and as of yet we have no way to tell if GW2 will be the exception.

Playing subpar builds for the sake of being diverse isn’t interesting.

Geotherma.2395:

clay.7849:

I usually delete BLC’s or sell them for their measly couple of copper on the TP. I certainly don’t buy keys for them. If I happen to get a BLK and I don’t have a BLC, they are about one of the cheapest things to buy on the TP.

If I bought a key for every chest drop I have gotten in the last 3 months.. I’d probably of paid for the next expansions worth of content already lol. And thats just me, times that by 100k-1million others doing the same thing and Trump Towers would have “Arenanet” on them. Oh.. one can wish.

That made me lol. Good post.

My opinions are based on anecdotal evidence as well as everyone else’s. Why would anyone deny that the game if the year 2012 and #1 rated game on MMORPG.com isn’t selling copies which would lead to server increases? That an te fact that there is need for space to accommodate the free trial weekend coming up? However, tying that to the fact that the overall population of the game is going well is about as valid as me saying that because I’ve seen massive people and guilds quitting the game the population is doing poorly.

Both are equally anecdotal and pointless to use as a basis to support my opinion as true. Therefore, I refuse to give reasons or try to say my opinion is true. It is just my opinion. And it is no more valid, based on the fact that we know nothing, as everyone else’s opinion.

And the fanboys hate that everything I just said is undeniably correct.

I usually delete BLC’s or sell them for their measly couple of copper on the TP. I certainly don’t buy keys for them. If I happen to get a BLK and I don’t have a BLC, they are about one of the cheapest things to buy on the TP.

I’m done crafting for profit, so I thought I would share some ways to craft food using karma to convert it to gold:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag-wwxRpSi15dFhlVDdfVFpVcVlFOVEtMElZVzVtRUE&usp=sharing

The google doc was never intended for anyone but myself, so I hope it is easy to follow.

danbuter.2314:

rizzo.1079:

Your post makes many good points, ESPECIALLY about dungeons.

Just a tip about making money: I’ve went from 0 to 44 gold in the bank this week. How? Wandering around normally, doing 3-4 events/day that give a boss chest and running through about 200 jewelery boxes. It’s seriously easy to make money once you stop spending it to level alts and crafting, and the jewelery boxes make karma actually useful for something.

What’s a jewelry box/ Seriously, I’m missing out on this!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lost_Orrian_Jewelry_Box

Although, there are better ways to make gold from Karma.

For example,

Making Omnomberry Bars nets around 3-4 gold per 1k karma.
Bowl of Baker’s Wet Ingredients is sitting around 2.5g per 1k karma.
Omnomberry Pie….3.5g per 1k karma
Raspberry Peach Bars…4-5g per 1k karma
Rare Unidentified Gray Dye…. 50s – 1g per 1k karma
Bowl of Dilled Cream Sauce… 5-6g per 1k karma

This is all based on today’s market from TP.

There are other ways as well…

nexxe.7081:

The players can’t do much when they have no tools to play with.
Custom content is the future of virtual worlds. This is why MMOs are flawed, because the content is consumed too quickly and people will get bored. Now, compare to minecraft, and you will see that Minecraft has a very active community because they are given customization to their virtual worlds. In GW2, we don’t have any customization, except gear, items, and clothing.

Not much in the way of sandbox MMO’s anymore, unfortunately.

Burn.5401:

How are dynamic events the end-game,? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us? Doing the same events over and over again is fun? How? What do you get out of it?

It’s your fault if they aren’t fun, or so says the OP.

Does kitten Ferguson count? (Extra points for those who know the reference.)

EDIT: I can’t believe I can’t say kitten #8230;

Krosslite.1950:

So again it is up to us the players of this game to adapted and change to how this game works. As of yet I have not seen it happening. Who is to blame? Well it ain’t Anet. Then who is the problem?

THE PLAYERS THEMSELVES!!!!!

That’s right, blame the players…

/sigh

darkace.8925:

mekkanic.4759:

Its not really a matter of cost…its just unnecessary.

Gold sinks are absolutely, positively necessary.

This is true. Combating inflation is a good thing. Personally, I would make waypoints that are further away from cities cost more to travel to.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I love discussions on that vein, the problem is what people think would make it “better” isn’t always the same. There’s always someone talking about mounts, or raids, or other stuff to make the game better.

For me? I want stuff honed. ArenaNet has a potentially great game here if they can polish and tune it. (I won’t go so far as to say it’s on my Top 20 but it’s still great.) There’s a lot of things they included which didn’t work properly and had to be fine-tuned, or removed outright. I’d like to see them figure out how to put them back in, or to complete what potentially could be there.

New races? Professions? New areas? I can wait on those . . .

Give me the Living Story with a monthly story arc which starts big, ends big, and moves on.

Give me occasional (occasional!) diversions like the Super Adventure Box, Wintersday, Shadow of the Mad King.

Give me some WvW play which rewards those who sit back and do defense or support work (you know, so people actually feel like it’s not a waste of their time/gold).

Give me another method of earning Ascended Amulets. A sane one.

Give me more crafting options at 400. Like alternate skins, because I don’t like Pearled :P

Eh, you’re on a section of the game I don’t touch and probably won’t. Frankly, I lack proper skill to PvP on any level. I didn’t experience it much in GW1 either, other than to find out a solid build meant nothing when my team’s opponents were halfway decent. I never did see the Hall of Heroes . . .

I agree. I think there is a lot of honing. It is why I am generally upset that it was released the way it was. It felt really unfinished. I understand that money is important, but IMO, releasing a game that is ready is more important, otherwise you’re just kind of selling out your customers.

I agree on waiting for new races and professions. There is plenty to do with what we have, and IMO, new classes kinda screwed up GW1 when they were introduced. So, I would be hesitant to see them introduced now, especially that I believe the game is still kind of in beta.

The Living Story to me doesn’t feel alive, it just feels like a new quest of things to do each month centered around a pre-written story. I would love to see something where choices made by servers or races or something can actually influence the story and the world. Same thing with dynamics events. They aren’t really dynamic.

ANet has always been good about diversions like Wintersday and April Fools, etc. So, I am happy they continue to do this well.

I agree with WvW. A new map in the rotation, some new ways to get badges that don’t include zerging, etc. would go a long way to making it more fun. I enjoyed it for a bit, but it still lacks attention to make it feel complete and robust.

Agreed on the Ascended Amulets. Dailies are very prohibiting to gearing one character in a decent amount of time, let alone someone with a multitude of alts. FoTM is fun, but there really should be other ways to get Ascended Gear. Hell, put me on an epic quest that takes 500k karma to complete to get one ascended piece, I would love that, as I’m sure WvW players would love to see badges count towards ascended gear, regardless of how many it takes. People just want options.

Crafting is meh, but I don’t care much for crafting.

Also, I wish everyone could know what it was like to progress through all the maps in HA to then win and hold halls. PvP, IMO, was always a great end game activity. HA and GvG were the most fun I have had in any game I have ever played. Winning a MTG tournament was a close second. It was this thing specifically that I thought ANet could replicate in GW2 and the thing with which I am most disappointed. However, I do think that it can get better without breaking the foundation upon which this game was made. I just don’t feel ANet really cares sometimes. That, ultimately, is my problem.

GW1 had a great philosophy of change and did a great job implementing it. GW2 also had a great philosophy of change, but IMO and many others’ opinions, they did not implement it well enough to meet the expectations of those people looking for that change. I realize that people love the game, and I am glad they love it and I hope that it keeps them enthralled for year and I don’t want to bring them down because of my own experiences or unmet expectations. But, at the same time, I don’t need to be told my opinion is wrong, or that it doesn’t matter, or that this game isn’t for me, or that I simply don’t know enough about MMOs, or that I’m unrealistic. I try not to battle people who have opinions that the game is good, but I do resent when people try to tell me that my opinion doesn’t count or that I should quit the game or that I shouldn’t have bought it.

FurySong.6348:

Every other class can swap weapons in combat, btw. Elementalists cannot.

Try new classes.

Weapon swapping in other classes does allow you access to 10 skills. Elementalists are allotted 20 skills just from one weapon by switching attunements. In this regard, I think elementalists have more options.

RebelYell.7132:

Vayne.8563:

Except that ten levels in Guild Wars 2 could take like a day or two. Leveling at high levels really goes fast. If they open new zones, you might level just exploring them normally.

Doesn’t matter how fast it is if I’ve already learned my class. Otherwise the time is no better used than if I had waited in a traffic jam.

Not to mention that new levels will inevitably mean new gear, which means your old gear becomes useless.

Aarean.5398:

Lol clay you have gotten so many people against you at this point. These are gw2 forums and there will be gw2 fans defending their game. I love it. Its my wow killer. Go on wow forums and discuss with them why you prefer wows game design over gw2. Bam you win

Haters gonna hate lol.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

phys.7689:

I think the point hes making here is not that you shouldnt have an opinion. I think he is saying that simply dismissing everything as opinion is worthless in terms of actual problem solving. Hes saying dont just say nothing matters because everyone has an opinion.

Say i have this opinion based on these factors, heres where i think something is strong, and heres where i think something is lacking. The point is to have a discussion that may give deeper understanding or bear fruit. The topic is do you find the game fun. Of course its going to be an opinion, but theoretically by discussing why yes, and why no, someone seeking solutions maybe able to glean useful information on why people are happy, or not happy, and better allot their resources towards making the game over all, better.

Of course nothing may come of it, but eh point of a forum is discussion, why not try.

Exactly. When I talk about something like, I think the game lacks depth because of XYZ, it would be more prudent to discuss XYZ rather than dismiss the idea that the game lacks depth because you don’t think so.

That is the whole point and why we keep running in to these issues.

If we have an opinion about the game, one should state why they have that opinion. Then instead of attacking that opinion with another, you should argue the reasons behind the first person’s opinion. That is how good conversation and arguments happen.

Except that in many threads I do provide information to back up why I think what I think, and you just dismiss it or ignore it anyway.

In a thread about Anet hiring people instead of laying off people, as possibly showing the health of game, you claim that they could be hiring people even if the game is doing badly. When I talk about the servers being expanded, as per an Anet rep, you deftly sidestep that fact too.

It actually doesn’t really matter if I support my opinion or not in posts to you, because you don’t pay any attention to what I say anyway.

First, your factual evidence is often your opinion based on how you see the way you and your guild play the game. It is anecdotal at best.

Second, someone attacking your claim that ANet hiring people = the game doing well is exactly the kind of thing that should happen. They should simply say that the game isn’t doing well because they think you are wrong, they should say why your claim that is it doing well because ANet is hiring people is wrong.

It is the hiring of people that = success of a game that should be argued. And, it is a pretty easy argument to deny. There are plenty of cases as to why a company that isn’t doing well may still be hiring without even getting in to the discussion of whether those job postings even led to someone being hired rather than just being job postings. It is a fact that a lot of jobs are not being filled in this country even though it appears that companies have those job positions listed as open and available.

http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2013/03/why_employers_arent_filling_th.html

See that, I also included a link to something relevant to that backs up my claim.

This is how good arguments work. You shouldn’t try to attack the logical statement just for being a statement you don’t like – you should attack the reasons behind why the person thinks that the statement is logical.

I do pay attention to what you say, and sometimes you do make good points. But, you all too often say that someone is wrong simply because you don’t agree, not because there is something wrong with their assumptions.