Guild Wars 2

Mirta.5029:

tolunart.2095:

clay.7849:

Not really. I remember the manifesto and really that was about it. I bought it a couple months after release on the fact that it was GW1’s second game.

It could be worse. I bought Dragon Age II because I loved Origins and thought the sequel would just be that much more awesome. Plus the company behind the game had a good track record, like following Baldur’s Gate with Shadows of Amn/Throne of Bhaal. Seems like a sure thing…

Oops.

To be honest we all made mistakes at some point. I bought The Sims 3, Mass Effect 3 and Bioshock Infinite because I loved the previous game. Big mistake on my part.

Hehe.

tolunart.2095:

clay.7849:

Not really. I remember the manifesto and really that was about it. I bought it a couple months after release on the fact that it was GW1’s second game.

It could be worse. I bought Dragon Age II because I loved Origins and thought the sequel would just be that much more awesome.

Oops.

Hahahaha. I feel ya man!

athuria.2751:

I won’t say GW2’s comabt doesn’t have areas it could really stand to improve to add engagement—especially on the PvE side of things. But these mechanics like bosses/players being able to out-heal/out-survive/prevent DPS is already there, a third utility (control) which can be used to dismantle the flow of both support and damage is there. You have mechanics like Lupicus’s grub-eating, shield trapping, Alpha’s crystals, your positioning (verses attacks like Howler’s shout, how about?) that force you (or the people around you) into doing something other than punching the boss.

If the PvE content is shallow, it’s because not enough bosses take advantage of these things and because the enemy AI is not intelligent enough that running class-canon DPS builds get off easy because they don’t really have to play a lot better (which then allows them to ignore mechanics like the Searing Effigy’s healing crystals) to make up for their lacking survivability (control just… gets really waysided in PvE and a lot of classes I don’t think can make builds that are still totally effective through dungeons and I wish it wasn’t because I love control). And fixing either of those things could improve content without the slightest necessity for a dedicated healer on either side of things.

And sPvP has only one mode of gameplay, I am not at all surprised to see bunkers excelling so far there because they’re a build designed around being effectively immovable and unkillable, or being able to prevent players from getting in through control/area denial, which makes them very strong for a point-control objective game. And in hot-join where you’re probably not communicating with your team as much (don’t have time, don’t know who they are) it’s even more important you be able to handle things on your own. I’d say the sPvP game mode itself is currently limited, and thus limiting combat.

I agree with this a lot. We really don’t know that much about the PvE side of things because they simply cannot do the same things we can. I don’t even think I have seen an enemy dodge in PvE.

If nothing else, GW1 combat was good at creating the feeling of playing PvP even with trash mobs. If this feeling could be replicated in PvE using what skills and classes we have now – it could go a long way to making combat feel better.

Agreed on the second part too. The lack of healing combined with capture points leads to bunkers being the obvious choice for at least 2 classes in a team. If there were other game modes we would also know better how these skills and classes really felt in combat.

Very very good points.

Sunflowers.1729:

While the game was advertised as ‘no trinity’, it wasn’t advertised as ‘no teamwork’.

On one hand while there is no need for anyone to stand around looking for a ‘tank’ or ‘healer’ (which has ironically been replaced by ‘LF1M guardian’), it is sort of boring when everyone has just one job – build for as much damage as you possibly can.

There are some exceptions of course – why does everyone want a Guardian when their damage is usually average? As someone who has a few lv 80s including a guardian, I believe their supporting/damage absorbing abilities are just so good (wall of reflection & altruistic healing!) that people are willing to overlook the loss of damage.

The same can’t be said of any other class except possibly mesmers. And we wonder why the top 3 classes for dungeons are warriors, mesmers, and guardians.

It’s really boring when my thief’s options are damage, damage, and uh damage but from a range! Give everyone more skills that benefit the party, then make the dungeons harder to make up for all the buffs!

disclaimer: this will probably mess up PvP balance again : (

Great post. I don’t know when combo fields and finishers were added, but they feel like an afterthought. They are rarely in any way beneficial and used as strategy to overcome a challenge. Instead, they are a nice “oh, I forgot about that!” mechanic that fails to really create any feeling of teamwork. Even if these were better, perhaps the teamwork would be better. Alas, they are not.

I am all down for the removal of the trinity, provided that the depth of group combat remains the same. I really don’t think it has.

Mirta.5029:

RebelYell.7132:

What was there to research? The game was under strict NDA until BWE came out, and you had to pay $60 plus tax to play BWE.

then wouldn’t it have been smart to wait till it got released and read the reviews first?

Your line of arguments is getting really bad here. We are talking about whether we like the combat system, in particular dedicated healers.

You aren’t going to make the argument we are all wrong because we bought this game or that it is something new and different.

I understand you like it. That is good. We are offering our opinion. Just because we bought the game doesn’t make it wrong. Hell, maybe we just wanted to see for ourselves if ANet could pull it off – and realized we didn’t like it.

Nick.6972:

Assyrian.4827:

Nick.6972:

spconder.2489:

-Makes an entire game around the concept of getting rid of the trinity and dedicated healers.

-Players ask for dedicated healing class and more trinity features.

I’m sure that there’s an AreanNet Dev/GM/Mod repeatedly smashing their head against a wall right now.

“Hey I swung a sword, I swung a sword again. We don’t want you to do that in Guild Wars 2”
Totally agree. Wait…

+1

Winner No. 1. I’m going to look for that YouTube video.

Oh Manifesto. Makes me laugh.
“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1…”

That one kills me the most.

Mirta.5029:

clay.7849:

Mirta.5029:

Why did people buy the product specifically advertised as such then? Isn’t it the same as entering an MMO shooter and then complaining that MMO and shooter don’t go together?

Why does anyone buy something and realise they don’t like it? I thought this was going to be a little more like GW1. I was wrong.

didn’t you do the research on it though?

Not really. I remember the manifesto and really that was about it. I bought it a couple months after release on the fact that it was GW1’s second game.

Mirta.5029:

Why did people buy the product specifically advertised as such then? Isn’t it the same as entering an MMO shooter and then complaining that MMO and shooter don’t go together?

Why does anyone buy something and realise they don’t like it? I thought this was going to be a little more like GW1. I was wrong.

spconder.2489:

-Makes an entire game around the concept of getting rid of the trinity and dedicated healers.

-Players ask for dedicated healing class and more trinity features.

I’m sure that there’s an AreanNet Dev/GM/Mod repeatedly smashing their head against a wall right now.

Well, just cause they made it one way didn’t mean everyone was going to accept it and like it.

Mirta.5029:

RebelYell.7132:

Nick.6972:

Ignore the trinity. Why not 1) Frontline 2) Midline 3) Backline. As in GW1’s PvP.
Never mind, with the current system that would never work.
Everyone’s a DPS till the end of GW2.

That’s why I frequent these trinity threads. Not because I want tanks and healers. I want definitive roles that aren’t “do nothing cool until we need you for Time Warp, Feedback, Temporal Curtain, or Portal”.

People seem to demonize all specialization systems for whatever reason, though. I guess it was so horrible having to tab out when queued as damage in the Dungeon Finder that all games have to be punished for it.

nope, it’s just that most people are bored of clones of clones of clones. The same system was in there since everquest. They want something new. This game offers something new, yet you seem to want that taken away from us.

Is being new automatically better just for being new? That is really all your argument says there.

I think this game has tons of time sinks which many people can interpret as a grind. That being said, I do not have nearly as much fun as GW1 and am waiting for another game to take my interest away.

Nick.6972:

Ignore the trinity. Why not 1) Frontline 2) Midline 3) Backline. As in GW1’s PvP.

This is what I want. Dedicated healer. Some great utility classes. And some ranged and melee damage classes.

The combat in GW1 was amazing compared to this game.

That being said, if this game actually took the action oriented combat to the level it deserves, it might be good too. Unfortunately, the block mechanic just doesn’t add enough to the game, IMO, to get rid of the rest.

Mirta.5029:

clay.7849:

Mirta.5029:

I like being a team player and holding aggro with high toughness, use my abilities to get people up and heal them a bit.

I’ve never seen anyone be able to hold aggro in GW2.

bosses aggro the person with the highest toughness in the group and not the person doing the most damage. They like to switch to people doing healing sometimes. If you have a some sort of auto regen and have some toughness the will stick with you no matter what. Found that out the hard way on my warrior -_-

Good to know. Thanks.

Mirta.5029:

I like being a team player and holding aggro with high toughness, use my abilities to get people up and heal them a bit.

I’ve never seen anyone be able to hold aggro in GW2.

Voodoo.1709:

I am simply trying to understand your point here… Why would adding a class more oriented towards healing cause a MAJOR overhaul?

Unfortunately, it would be extremely difficult to not only make a dedicated healer, but to make its inclusion in the game beneficial.

The idea of a healer is to create deeper combat. Instead of everyone worrying about how fast they can DPS something, you need to account for the ability for enemies (in PvP or PvE) to be able to effectively heal or prot through your DPS.

Not just this, but the dedicated healer is often in the back line of the party.

So now, instead of just DPSing a mob, you need to decide is the monk going to be able to out heal my DPS, and if so, how do I go about attacking the monk while bursting through the front line in order to get to the back line.

In addition to adding a healer, you would also benefit from adding something to balance both healing and DPS – namely utility. In GW1 this was primarily the mesmer class. It could effectively shut down both monks or DPS when specced for one or the other (or both). This also added wonderful depth and strategy to a game.

Without going into much more about why a healer is good and create both strategy and depth to a game, here are the problems adding it in this game.

1. This game is designed to allow you to play solo. Really, this is the biggest reason. You can’t have a dedicated healer go out and do much in the persistent world if their skill bar is all heals. Sure, you could probably get around some of it by adding a weapon or two that does damage, but you get the idea.

2. In order for the healer class to make sense in PvE, you would need to make PvE encounters have healers to add the kind of combat depth a healer should bring to the game. The problem, again, is that 1) you would have to rework all of the mobs in the game and 2) you would essentially make the persistent world need grouping instead of solo play.

Personally, the need to look for a monk to complete content is not without merit, but I really hate the fact that it is at the cost of both a ton of depth and strategy to the game. We see that this is happening because DPS really has become the best way to complete content in the PvE side; and on the sPvP side we see a lot of successful builds around classes that are able to play bunker well or classes that are able to DPS bunkers down quickly. This is why the elementalist is possibly the #1 most successful class in sPvP, with the thief as its biggest counter.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Teracide.5137:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

Lol, what are you my dad?

“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”

C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?

I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.

Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.

I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.

For example you claim I’m a fan boy, but I’ve come out against Anet for some of the stuff they’re doing. I just don’t rant about it, because that serves no purpose. And I don’t personally insult people who disagree with me. I argue with them, without name calling.

Yes, I’m a fan of this game…because the other MMOs out there are mostly terrible to me. If that’s a problem for you, I’m not sorry about that. I won’t apologize for liking a game. Nor should I have to.

No, you should apologize to everyone else that their opinions don’t matter and yours is the only one that does.

That is your problem. That is what you do in every thread. It goes as follows:

OP: I think opinion X, because of Y.

You: Your opinion is wrong because me and my guild prove it. My opinion is right.

OP: Yes, but look at logical statement X.

You: You’re still wrong. I’m right. My opinion is better and you are just a negative forum-goer.

OP: Whatever…

Basically every thread, except for that one where the OP was upset about engineer weapon skins. Ya, that’s important….

Where did I say the OP’s opinion was wrong? Can you show me this? I’ll wait here.

What I said was I disagree with the OP’s opinion. I wasn’t aware that disagreeing with an opinion was a crime.

The OP feels this is a serious matter that must be fixed. I feel this is a normal state of affairs in a relatively new MMO that’s being fixed.

You keep putting words into my mouth. That doesn’t help any of your arguments either.

Keep telling yourself that…

Disagreeing isn’t a crime. Telling someone their opinion doesn’t matter because yours is better is the problem you have.

That and the fact that you tell people they are in the minority because your guild doesn’t agree. And the fact that you use your godlike MMO knowledge to tell everyone they’re wrong too.

It’s as if he can’t grasp the fact that his opinion doesn’t hold any more weight than that of anyone else.

I’ve never said my opinion holds more weight or less weight. I’m simply saying that what I believe. There are others who feel the same way and others who feel differently.

Seems you spend a lot more time discussing me than the issue of profession balance. Perhaps we should get back to that.

But you said the issues weren’t important to discuss because the game isn’t even a year old yet and we are making too much out of it. Which is it? Can we actually discuss the fact that there is imbalance or are we going to have to be ridiculed by you because we feel that it is important?

I didn’t say you can’t discuss it. I simply said discussing it won’t change anything. There is a difference.

The balance in this game is about where the balance in most new games is IN MY OPINION. It needs some work. Work is being done. Discuss away.

How does saying discussing something won’t change anything in any way contribute to a thread? You shouldn’t even post crap like that. It is pointless.

Vayne.8563:

ScottBroChill.3254:

I don’t know. Every time I post in a thread, Vayne states that my opinion is wrong because his guild is different. As if opinions can be invalidated.

I didn’t state your opinion was “wrong”. It’s an opinion. It’s yours. It’s not wrong. I don’t agree with this opinion. I know others who don’t agree. Why does it bother you so much that I disagree?

You don’t disagree. You use your opinion to invalidate others. THAT is the problem. Not disagreeing.

You don’t even bring logic to the table. You don’t base anything you say on anything other than your opinion is different and we should all play the way you do.

ScottBroChill.3254:

I don’t know. Every time I post in a thread, Vayne states that my opinion is wrong because his guild is different. As if opinions can be invalidated.

Same here. It gets annoying and I can’t deal with it anymore. I mean, his guild must be the only one in the entire game that though the story was good. I can find hardcore fanboys who won’t even back up the story being good.

Vayne.8563:

Teracide.5137:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

Lol, what are you my dad?

“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”

C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?

I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.

Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.

I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.

For example you claim I’m a fan boy, but I’ve come out against Anet for some of the stuff they’re doing. I just don’t rant about it, because that serves no purpose. And I don’t personally insult people who disagree with me. I argue with them, without name calling.

Yes, I’m a fan of this game…because the other MMOs out there are mostly terrible to me. If that’s a problem for you, I’m not sorry about that. I won’t apologize for liking a game. Nor should I have to.

No, you should apologize to everyone else that their opinions don’t matter and yours is the only one that does.

That is your problem. That is what you do in every thread. It goes as follows:

OP: I think opinion X, because of Y.

You: Your opinion is wrong because me and my guild prove it. My opinion is right.

OP: Yes, but look at logical statement X.

You: You’re still wrong. I’m right. My opinion is better and you are just a negative forum-goer.

OP: Whatever…

Basically every thread, except for that one where the OP was upset about engineer weapon skins. Ya, that’s important….

Where did I say the OP’s opinion was wrong? Can you show me this? I’ll wait here.

What I said was I disagree with the OP’s opinion. I wasn’t aware that disagreeing with an opinion was a crime.

The OP feels this is a serious matter that must be fixed. I feel this is a normal state of affairs in a relatively new MMO that’s being fixed.

You keep putting words into my mouth. That doesn’t help any of your arguments either.

Keep telling yourself that…

Disagreeing isn’t a crime. Telling someone their opinion doesn’t matter because yours is better is the problem you have.

That and the fact that you tell people they are in the minority because your guild doesn’t agree. And the fact that you use your godlike MMO knowledge to tell everyone they’re wrong too.

It’s as if he can’t grasp the fact that his opinion doesn’t hold any more weight than that of anyone else.

I’ve never said my opinion holds more weight or less weight. I’m simply saying that what I believe. There are others who feel the same way and others who feel differently.

Seems you spend a lot more time discussing me than the issue of profession balance. Perhaps we should get back to that.

But you said the issues weren’t important to discuss because the game isn’t even a year old yet and we are making too much out of it. Which is it? Can we actually discuss the fact that there is imbalance or are we going to have to be ridiculed by you because we feel that it is important?

Vayne.8563:

Teracide.5137:

Vayne.8563:

I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.

How narcissistic are you to think you’re even worth that kind of research? I’m with clay on this one. Get over yourself.

If you haven’t noticed, Clay is personally attacking me, which is fine. It shows his mettle.

Of course I didn’t expect him to go and look at which threads I’ve posted in or not. But the challenge is now there for him to put up or shut up. He believes I post in every single negative thread, which is simply, demonstrably not the case. That’s all what I said points out.

You can be with Clay if you like, but it doesn’t make is attacks on me warranted, nor does it make is opinion any more reasonable.

It’s far more reasonable to say the game is less than a year old and has some balance issues that are being worked out slowly than it is to say these professions are broken and Anet is doing nothing about it.

It’s far less reasonable to personally insult people, rather than to discuss opinions. I’m not so sure most people wouldn’t see me as being more reasonable than Clay.

If you find the truth insulting, maybe that should tell you something.

Teracide.5137:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

Lol, what are you my dad?

“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”

C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?

I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.

Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.

I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.

For example you claim I’m a fan boy, but I’ve come out against Anet for some of the stuff they’re doing. I just don’t rant about it, because that serves no purpose. And I don’t personally insult people who disagree with me. I argue with them, without name calling.

Yes, I’m a fan of this game…because the other MMOs out there are mostly terrible to me. If that’s a problem for you, I’m not sorry about that. I won’t apologize for liking a game. Nor should I have to.

No, you should apologize to everyone else that their opinions don’t matter and yours is the only one that does.

That is your problem. That is what you do in every thread. It goes as follows:

OP: I think opinion X, because of Y.

You: Your opinion is wrong because me and my guild prove it. My opinion is right.

OP: Yes, but look at logical statement X.

You: You’re still wrong. I’m right. My opinion is better and you are just a negative forum-goer.

OP: Whatever…

Basically every thread, except for that one where the OP was upset about engineer weapon skins. Ya, that’s important….

Where did I say the OP’s opinion was wrong? Can you show me this? I’ll wait here.

What I said was I disagree with the OP’s opinion. I wasn’t aware that disagreeing with an opinion was a crime.

The OP feels this is a serious matter that must be fixed. I feel this is a normal state of affairs in a relatively new MMO that’s being fixed.

You keep putting words into my mouth. That doesn’t help any of your arguments either.

Keep telling yourself that…

Disagreeing isn’t a crime. Telling someone their opinion doesn’t matter because yours is better is the problem you have.

That and the fact that you tell people they are in the minority because your guild doesn’t agree. And the fact that you use your godlike MMO knowledge to tell everyone they’re wrong too.

It’s as if he can’t grasp the fact that his opinion doesn’t hold any more weight than that of anyone else.

Exactly.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

Lol, what are you my dad?

“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”

C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?

I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.

Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.

I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.

For example you claim I’m a fan boy, but I’ve come out against Anet for some of the stuff they’re doing. I just don’t rant about it, because that serves no purpose. And I don’t personally insult people who disagree with me. I argue with them, without name calling.

Yes, I’m a fan of this game…because the other MMOs out there are mostly terrible to me. If that’s a problem for you, I’m not sorry about that. I won’t apologize for liking a game. Nor should I have to.

No, you should apologize to everyone else that their opinions don’t matter and yours is the only one that does.

That is your problem. That is what you do in every thread. It goes as follows:

OP: I think opinion X, because of Y.

You: Your opinion is wrong because me and my guild prove it. My opinion is right.

OP: Yes, but look at logical statement X.

You: You’re still wrong. I’m right. My opinion is better and you are just a negative forum-goer.

OP: Whatever…

Basically every thread, except for that one where the OP was upset about engineer weapon skins. Ya, that’s important….

Where did I say the OP’s opinion was wrong? Can you show me this? I’ll wait here.

What I said was I disagree with the OP’s opinion. I wasn’t aware that disagreeing with an opinion was a crime.

The OP feels this is a serious matter that must be fixed. I feel this is a normal state of affairs in a relatively new MMO that’s being fixed.

You keep putting words into my mouth. That doesn’t help any of your arguments either.

Keep telling yourself that…

Disagreeing isn’t a crime. Telling someone their opinion doesn’t matter because yours is better is the problem you have.

That and the fact that you tell people they are in the minority because your guild doesn’t agree. And the fact that you use your godlike MMO knowledge to tell everyone they’re wrong too.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

Lol, what are you my dad?

“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”

C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?

I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.

Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.

I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.

For example you claim I’m a fan boy, but I’ve come out against Anet for some of the stuff they’re doing. I just don’t rant about it, because that serves no purpose. And I don’t personally insult people who disagree with me. I argue with them, without name calling.

Yes, I’m a fan of this game…because the other MMOs out there are mostly terrible to me. If that’s a problem for you, I’m not sorry about that. I won’t apologize for liking a game. Nor should I have to.

No, you should apologize to everyone else that their opinions don’t matter and yours is the only one that does.

That is your problem. That is what you do in every thread. It goes as follows:

OP: I think opinion X, because of Y.

You: Your opinion is wrong because me and my guild prove it. My opinion is right.

OP: Yes, but look at logical statement X.

You: You’re still wrong. I’m right. My opinion is better and you are just a negative forum-goer.

OP: Whatever…

Basically every thread, except for that one where the OP was upset about engineer weapon skins. Ya, that’s important….

Vayne.8563:

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

Lol, what are you my dad?

“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”

C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?

I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.

Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.

OP you are right. GW2 completely lacks the depth from GW1. It is a dumbed down MMO for carebears and completely abandons ANets philosophy from GW1. The manifesto should have said: “If you like generic MMO’s watered down for casual players, you’ll love GW2.”

Teracide.5137:

Vayne.8563:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t believe Anet is ever going to equalize the damage between professions.

Evidence?

I also don’t believe that DPS is the only thing that counts. I understand the mindset that does believe this, but it’s still only a matter of opinion and play style.

If it’s a matter of opinion and play style, why do you care so much so as to visit these types of threads and dismiss our opinions and play styles as the exaggerated, pointless whining of a small minority?

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

Have you read this thread? People want both: they like the feel of some professions and want their contributions to damage output to be on par with other classes. You trade in false dichotomies.

And because Anet does tend to factor in other considerations, such as survivability and utility, it’s unlikely that they’ll equalize damage.

Please explain. Specifics and details would be helpful. (Stories of your subjective enjoyment playing various classes do not count.)

Anet has NEVER equalized the damage between professions. I don’t believe they’re going to start now.

A lot of things I say about the game, generally, comes from years of reading, not only patchnotes, but explanations from devs of why changes were made. This was done in Guild Wars 1, and I really wish they’d do the same in Guild Wars 2. But for years, every time a major patch came out, there was an explanation on the Guild Wars 1 Wiki of why those changes were made. If you’re asking me for EVIDENCE that they’re not going to do this, I can’t give it to you. Because my educated guess is based on watching what the company did and how they explained it for years. How about you come back to me in a year or two and tell me if they did it. They won’t because they never have. It’s not how Anet thinks.

And yeah, I have read the thread…all of it. And I see a handful of people complaining. That’s all. That’s what I see. Are you saying this handful of people complaining is representative of the whole gaming community? If so, evidence?

Anet has it’s own standards which it works too. In Guild Wars 1, many of the same things were said in forums, and much of it Anet ignored as well. And some people left over it. And some people stayed.

You guys are all very smart, I’m sure of that. But that doesn’t mean you have a monopoly on an opinion or that you know what’s best for the game. If I was going to put money on Anet’s way or your way…I’d probably bet on Anet.

That’s what I don’t understand about you. You think having read many patch notes, MMO forums, and watching dev interviews on YouTube have made you an expert on all things MMO (it hasn’t). You’re basing your “educated” guess on what ANet did in the past with GW1, when ANet went a completely different direction with GW2 than they did with GW1.

It’s true that there’s only about 15-20 people in the thread acknowledging the imbalance of the classes, but there’s only about 2 people (you included) in here saying that everything is fine. That test-sample alone should at least hint something to you.

Haven’t you figured it out yet? He knows more than everyone. If he thinks you’re wrong he uses his own made up conjecture to prove he’s right and if you deny it he says that only a couple people are complaining and that is the nature of forums.

He doesn’t even want to use logic to talk about the game. He has reached level 80 fanboy.

GW1 didn’t need classes to have balanced power because you rolled in groups of 8 and certain classes did things other classes can’t do.

In GW2 with solo player mode the #1 mode, they need to balance damage, because there aren’t 8 man teams.

Think before you speak Vayne.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne I thought we were talking about skill balance and GW2, not raids in WoW. What are you rambling about man?

Can’t you see this game is really poorly developed around 5 man teams? Look at sPvP: thieves and elementalists. Dungeons have warriors and mesmers.

I’m not an elitist, but I can tell you that I have quit a couple dungeon groups simply because they plain suck. I don’t know if it is their professions but when it takes 5 minutes to kill the slave master in CoF p1 there is a problem.

You’re assumption you can play this game any way is wrong, unless you like not being efficient.

Then I’m not efficient. That’s all. You care about running dungeons as fast as human possible. A percentage of the population cares about the same thing. A percentage of the population doesn’t. If all you care about is efficiency, you’re right. I don’t care about efficiency and there are many of us out there. I’m not saying more or less, but enough to play together and have fun.

In any game with five professions, there will be a most efficient combination. People ALWAYS find the most efficient combination. You talk like other games don’t experience this phenomena. It’s so prevalent I can’t believe you think this is something to comment on. It happened often in Guild Wars 1 even. People figured out a way to do things fast and that’s the builds they wanted to do those things. Why is it such a big deal here?

You’re so quick to put words in my mouth. I don’t care about running dungeons as fast as possible. In the other hand, I like to complete them in a decent amout of time.

Oh Vayne, you are vain.

I don’t need to be the most efficient, but to not be somewhat efficient is a bit dumb don’t you think?

Some people love to walk from one point to another as fast as they can. Some people like to stroll. Some people have fun with content and playing with people, some people just want to get it done. What is so hard to understand here?

Yes, you want it somewhat efficiently. I don’t care. Many people don’t care. Why do you care that we don’t care? Someone said that most groups can run CoF path 1 in ten minutes. A speed clear group can run it in 6.5. That 3.5 minute difference is only a big deal if you’re doing multiple runs. Many runs. Farming.

Not everyone puts a stopwatch on their entertainment. Stop trying to tell me that the problem is bigger than it is…. it’s not.

Every single MMORPG has a problem with one build or one profession or one method being more efficient. Then certain people who play for efficiency will use that method and thus exclude people who don’t care about efficiency. This is business as usual, not something that needs a ton of attention.

Do you really think when they make whatever changes they make, there won’t be a different most efficient method and we won’t see the same kinds of posts.

Go do a bit of research. Go to other MMO forums and read them. Just read them. See what other people are saying about other games. This is the same complaint I read on every MMO forum.

Is there work to be done on balancing. Sure. Is there a major problem here? No more than in any other MMORPG.

Why do you keep saying we should compare this to other MMO’s to justify bad mechanics?

I thought this was the MMO for people that don’t like MMO’s?

Your points are silly and useless.

Nick.6972:

Warriors SHOULD deal more damage than any other profession.
Guardians SHOULD have more survivability than any other profession.

The point is, every profession should be unique and be capable of doing thing or two better than the other 7 professions.

It’s just stupid to ask for everyone do deal the same amount of damage, have equal heals etc.

Take the trinity and expand on it, add 5 more roles on already existing 3.

Except that was GW2’s intentions, which I think was dumb.

The problem is that DPS > everything else in this game. So, while a warrior SHOULD do more damage, in doing so, they become the best class in the game as it relates to DPS being the best.

Vayne.8563:

When someone says a profession is completely broken because another profession can do more DPS, that’s when I peak my nose in.

To keep the rabble down, eh? As lord defender of Gulld Wars 2 you would hate for someone to say something bad about the game. Keep us in our place Vayne, we don’t deserve to be in the same forums as you.

Vayne I thought we were talking about skill balance and GW2, not raids in WoW. What are you rambling about man?

Can’t you see this game is really poorly developed around 5 man teams? Look at sPvP: thieves and elementalists. Dungeons have warriors and mesmers.

I’m not an elitist, but I can tell you that I have quit a couple dungeon groups simply because they plain suck. I don’t know if it is their professions but when it takes 5 minutes to kill the slave master in CoF p1 there is a problem.

You’re assumption you can play this game any way is wrong, unless you like not being efficient.

All bow to lord Vayne, Protector of Guild Wars 2. Teach us lord with your anecdotal evidence and superior MMO knowledge, for I am not worthy of my own opinions.

No point in arguing with Vayne. He and his guild think this is the best game ever and flawless. If you disagree he and his guil prove otherwise and speak for the majority. An his years of MMO playing make him the authority on MMO’s.

On a serious note, the classes and balance in this game are very poorly balanced because most of the game is balanced for solo, not group, play. As such, groups may never get the real balancing they deserve. This is especially apparent in dungeons and sPvP.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Nightarch.2943:

MasterGeese.4756:

What’s the first thing you’re going to do?

I would fire the guys who are responsible for the horrible combat system and then hire the guys from Neverwinter.

That would be profoundly stupid. You can’t even move while attacking in Neverwinter.

Calling someone’s idea stupid is really constructive. I suppose you weapon skins are way more important than the crap combat we have.

Arkham Creed.7358:

clay.7849:

Someone needs to make a video of First World Problems: The MMO Version and put this in there ASAP.

In the infamous words of Allen Iverson, “We talking about practice weapon skins? We ain’t talking about the game. We talking about practice weapon skins, man.”

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

By the same logic we should just close down these forums entirely.

I see engineers are serious business. No time for joking.

Someone needs to make a video of First World Problems: The MMO Version and put this in there ASAP.

In the infamous words of Allen Iverson, “We talking about practice weapon skins? We ain’t talking about the game. We talking about practice weapon skins, man.”

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

Astral Projections.7320:

Hickeroar.9734:

Have you looked at what is required for WvW titles? I haven’t seen a single player with ANY of those titles. Those requirements are mind-boggling.

PvP titles are just as achievable as PvE titles, and the number of titles is basically the same.

Someone calculated how much time it would take to get one of the WvW titles and it was it was like, !!!, no one in their right mind is ever going to get that title. The amount of time involved makes killing 1000 giants a walk in the park. It was literally years with doing it hours a day. So yeah, I think we can take the WvW titles off the list.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Some Heroes Ascent emotes took a long time to get. The phoenix was eventually achieved like two years after the game was released (although it was added later as people got closer to the next rank that needed an emote).

Taking a long time to achieve a title isn’t a bad thing. It just makes it that much more impressive if/when someone does it.

Personally, I’m not a title person. Although, I did eye up that kegmaster one.

Vayne.8563:

There’s a problem with heroes in the open world. Imagine 200 guys all with heroes. Now imagine the lag. It’s just not reasonable for an open world game. If you’re really adding heroes, you’re going to have to make the entire game instanced.

That is true, good point. There needs to be something done about DE’s in dead zones. Perhaps a number of NPC’s to counter balance the lack of actual players?

Although, I’m not against making things instanced.

Actually, if I did it my way, we would have a mix of instances and open world. So, instead of servers that have like 100+ people in a zone, you have an instance where it only lets in like 3-5 parties at a time. This way, you don’t feel overrun in a world of people that have the same kind of power as you, which diminishes the whole hero thing – but you still have chance encounters with other players.

Of all the things that would make this game better and should take precedent at the top of the long list of things to do, making legendaries for engineers is not one of them.

1. I would design the entire game and monster AI around 5v5 teams.

2. I would add heroes to the game to still allow for solo play.

3. I would make classes more diverse, so there would be more synergy playing in a group.

4. I would add the monk class and make mesmers, elementalists, necromancers and engineers have more utility. Also, warriors and thieves would use only melee and rangers would use only ranged weapons.

5. I would add class specific resource management requirements.

6. I would make loot scale to difficulty of content. CoF path 1 loot would be nerfed hard.

7. I would remove RNG and make mob specific loot tables with reasonable chances of dropping rare items.

8. I would add random 5v5 deathmatch arenas. I would add multiple objectives to sPvP such as team deathmatch, relic runs, king of the hill and capture the flag.

9. I would add guild halls and GvG.

10. More maps for WvW and more badges for doing things that discourage zerging.

I’ll stop at 10. By then I would have probably kitten off the entire population of GW2 and killed the game. XD

Vayne.8563:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Vayne.8563:

The problem is, most of the PVe content is so easy already in this game, why would anyone want to roll a profession to make it even easier?

Gold. If you can faceroll a dungeon in 6 minutes getting all the loot, then why use a class designed to take any longer. Sad but true; even if you prefer playing one of your alts, the warrior can be used to equip it for you quicker than you could do it yourself.

Because there’s more to this game for me than getting all the loot. Because those people who play just to get all the loot, over all, are less satisfied with this game than people like me. Because loot in general, as it works today, has pretty much destroyed the RPG section of the MMO.

I mean I know a whole lot of people who play games like Skyrim and Dragon age, and almost none of them are in it just for the loot.

So yeah, if all you want to do is farm, and farm and farm roll a warrior. If you want to enjoy the game in other ways, roll what you want.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Karizee.8076:

Growing.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Due to a number of servers approaching full with a recent influx of new players from the sale on Gw2 that just ended, the server capacity was recently increased for a number of servers yes.

Unless you know how many people left vs. how many people bought the game, you can’t say that the active population is growing, just the number of accounts, which will continue to happen as that is the only way it can go.

Honestly, these threads should just stop. Nobody agrees on anything and we won’t know the answer unless the devs tell us. Speculation just causes flame wars.

But Anet has said at least at one point that the concurrency is going on, and that does match my in game observation. Of course, that was a while ago, and who knows now.

Also,. they said that the sale did well and they expanded the server cap as a result. You can all them liars if you want, but it sorta makes sense to me. Not very many interesting MMOs out these days to compete.

I don’t disagree with anything ANet says. That would be foolish, especially with you lurking, lol! :P

Yes, a while ago they said they had a large drop off, which is normal, and that concurrency numbers have steadily risen. What has happened since then, is unknown.

Yes, they also said the sale did well. They are also doing a trial weekend which will need server space as well.

I don’t disagree with any of that, and on the surface, it would appear the game is doing well. Still, that doesn’t mean that we know the actual numbers which means we can’t say for sure.

I’m not saying anything about it doing poorly, I am just saying that to use one statement to blatantly say it is growing is a bit half-honest. Yes, we know the number of accounts are growing. They always will. What we don’t know, and won’t know, is what the server population looks like on a day to day basis.

Karizee.8076:

Growing.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Due to a number of servers approaching full with a recent influx of new players from the sale on Gw2 that just ended, the server capacity was recently increased for a number of servers yes.

Unless you know how many people left vs. how many people bought the game, you can’t say that the active population is growing, just the number of accounts, which will continue to happen as that is the only way it can go.

Honestly, these threads should just stop. Nobody agrees on anything and we won’t know the answer unless the devs tell us. Speculation just causes flame wars.

Drew.1865:

clay.7849:

I do want to see what happens if you put 4 legendaries in the Mystic Toilet…

You get a baby asura riding a unicorn that pukes rainbows.

LMFAO nice post.

I had no intention of going for a legendary. Now, it looks like I will need to grind 4.

Sadly, DR will most likely kick in and I’ll end up with the trident legendary or something equally useless.

Poplolita.2638:

Syeria.4812:

Star Ace.5207:

Syeria.4812:

Star Ace.5207:

You should be aware that people have different personality types, and therefore, while you didn’t mean to hurt their feelings by just wanting to be “efficient”, by actually hurting/offending another human being, even if you wouldn’t be yourself. In your view, It’s his/her problem, but he/she didn’t choose which type of personality he/she would have. So in short, not caring about others feelings because that’s not your forte (feelings) doesn’t mean that the other person is in the wrong for feeling mistreated, because that’s probably part of his/her personality and who he/she is. That player “hurting” you because of “wasting your time”, especially when unwillingly, is not on the same of level of you mistreating him/her unfairly because you have specific elitist criteria to be met that he/she may not possess (at least in your eyes, for who knows, that player may be really even better than you at GW2.)

If the person was bullying your party, by intentionally slowing your group down, then I understand about kicking someone. That’s him/her being annoying. But because of gear/build/playstyle/mistakes/still learning the instance/“wrong profession”, it’s totally unwarranted. Your time is valuable-but so are their feelings (I.E. you should learn to coexist.)

And I didn’t choose their personality either. Put simply, it is not my problem. It has never been my problem. It will never be my problem.

You (personally) clearly have a complete and utter lack of respect for other people, their lives, and their time. Just because someone whom I’ve never met and will never meet has a personal problem which is wholly and completely unrelated to me in any fashion does not mean that they automatically have some sort of right to my time, my effort, or anything from me. Maybe they have a serious psychological issue. Then they should discuss with their psychiatrist whether or not they should be playing Guild Wars 2. Their behavior is harming people around them, and they need to take responsibility for their actions.

Not being like you is not a psychological disorder. This is why I said that you need to study more about how different people can be, and that it’s OK for them to be so.

In short, being you is OK, but should let others be themselves. In your eyes, people should behave and act as you think they should: as you would, and not as they were meant to-like themselves.

A player is right to feel mistreated if treated callously and disrespectfully, especially unfairly, which is almost always the case for that to be true.

Yawn. That’s a lovely strawman you came up with there. Did you have fun with it?

Seems you need the situation explained to you better:

Your position – Extremely sensitive peoples’ feelings are the single most important thing in the entire world, and anything that may or may not incidentally harm them (held to the standard of the most sensitive person in the entire game, rather than to a “normal,” average, median, or even nth percentile measure) is far more important than any possible motivation behind the action.

Rational position – There’s no responsibility for every single individual in the world to break their back in order to ensure extremely insecure people don’t perceive horrible offenses being committed against them around every corner.

The fact of the matter is the enjoyment of the game by 4 people in a party is more valuable than the enjoyment by the 1 remaining person in the party. Groups in Guild Wars 2 are extremely informal arrangements where people try work together for a common goal. If things aren’t working out, they’re not working out and the informal arrangement should be broken. If you’re driving somewhere with someone and they suggest you take a shortcut, but it becomes immediately apparent that taking that shortcut is going to damage your vehicle, you should turn around and go the other way. Even though not taking the shortcut might hurt that person’s feelings, no rational person is going to seriously risk their life and property just to ensure that person’s feelings are protected, and that’s when dealing with someone they presumably actually know and care about for other reasons.

I know it’s hip and cool to be “empathetic” and “concerned” but to people actually capable of coherent thought, it’s pretty clear those people are just pretentious kittens who think far too highly of themselves.

“Pretentious kittens who think far too highly of themselves”
.
.
.
“Yawn. That’s a lovely strawman you came up with there. Did you have fun with it?”

Mindblow O.o

Lol. Nailed it.

I don’t know if it’s just me, but watching LoL makes me want to tear my eyes out. It’s one of the reasons I haven’t bothered to download the game even though I know a ton of people from GW1 play it.

Anyone else feel this way?

Vayne.8563:

It’ll happen when Anet makes observer mode and a paid tournament. Not until.

Observer mode would be huge.

Some new objectives like king of the hill, team deathmatch and relic runs would be beneficial as well.

Also, it looks like they are working on separating skills for PvP and PvE more and more – so that would be good to have more balance for 5v5 than what we have now.

I do want to see what happens if you put 4 legendaries in the Mystic Toilet…

I get emails like this all the time for different things. In general, don’t open any ZIP files and if you hover over the link, in most email programs, you can see what the actual URL is instead of the anchor text. If it isn’t from a safe URL, don’t click and delete the email.

It’s amazing how well done a lot of these phishing emails are done.

Barbelo.5916:

generalraccoon.3857:

Let me get this straight. The OP’s mistake was:
1. Didnt pull slave driver into the wall.
2. Didnt time warp fast enough.
3. Didn’t cast feedback fast enough.

And for that you get kicked? OMG I am so thankful for being in my guild then. I’d have been kicked a hundred times over by such people. I ran several CoF p1 farms recently. We never really did #1, is it really THAT necessary? As for the other 2 points, well, I get that some people want to do fast runs and all but I feel like that just crosses the line. It’s not like the OP didn’t do it at all.

The person that told me all this said we would have saved “about 20 secs” had I done everything perfectly.

If it makes you feel any better, they must have sucked if it took you 10 minutes to do that run. I did it in 7 minutes with 2 engineers, 2 thieves and myself (mesmer) and we were a PUG that wasn’t advertised as speed run.

The whole CoF speed run thing is a joke tbh and if you use the LFG web tool you will find there are many groups that don’t have such high ridiculous expectations that you do everything some guy on a youtube video did.

I do think that speccing for DPS is a big advantage in that dungeon, although I don’t think asking for people to do that is elitist, just efficient.