….I don’t think it is ok to release an unfinished game.
I haven’t logged in for a LONG time..but I just had to ask…this game is technically “unfinished” is it not? They’re constantly evolving the game…I thought that was the entire point.
Constantly evolving and missing key features the game should have shipped with are two different things.
OK, so who defines “key features?”
Easy to define. What where the major aspects that pushed by the publishers? What was used to draw people into the game.
Those are key features of the game. Nowhere did it state, guild halls or guild battles, therefor they are not key features. Player Housing is not mentioned by developers as a way to draw more people therefor its not a key feature.
Key in this contest along with speeches and other aspects means can not do without. Removing a key argument from a speech and the speech becomes useless mumble that no one would care to listen to. Key features of the game are without them the game would not be attractive. Evolutionary world is one of the key features of this game and they are holding true it so far.
Player Housing, custom PvP, Guild Halls, and ect. are not key features and the game would go on playing without as it is currently. They are certain player wants but are not necessary for the game to survive.
Promise of eSport was used to drive me in. Where are those key features? You can’t have GvG without guild halls. The name of the kitten game is Guild Wars. And don’t give me that lore crap – that is just bullkitten.
Agreed. Much of the game is designed for people who want to farm and grind or carebears who don’t care about a challenge. People who want challenging content or that like team PvP are pretty much kitten outta luck.
Yes who WANT to farm and grind but though who do not want to farm and grind can chose not to unlike every other mmorpg that was ever made. The challenging content is there but you do not want to do it. guild mission are very hard and you can fail them. There high level fractal that are very much fail able. There wvw content that has a challenges to it that never caps. Even in Spvp there is a challenge but its not been showed to you yet so you cant see it.
I don’t consider spamming skills on recharge against bosses with endless amounts of hit points challenging. Boring is more like it.
And I have a winning record in sPvP with over 20 games played. It’s pretty easy really and boring.
Also have enough badges of honor to know zerging is boring and unchallenging too.
Maybe you just aren’t good at the game if you think it is challenging?
Oh and fractals isn’t challenging. Agony might be the most boring mechanic ever added to a game to make it challenging lmfao.
Big fish small pond sounds like what your problem is. That or you just simply play a boring class and or that you find boring and comply unwilling to try ANYTHING new.
Lol I’ve played everything there is to play in this game. What am I missing that we don’t know about? Dungeons aren’t challenging. sPvP isn’t challenging. WvW isn’t changing. FoTM isn’t challenging. World bosses aren’t challenging. DE’s might actually be the best thing in this game but no one is around to do them, especially in higher level areas before Orr.
What did I miss? I’ve done all of that stuff. Once you know how to exploit the AI, play a bunker, and Zerg, I fail to see anything interesting or challenging in this game.
Like I said I think you’re problem is you’re just not good at the game which is why you think it is so hard.
GW2 isn’t nearly as ambitious as GW1 was. That game actually tried to break the mold, and did quite successfully.
This game is just another MMO. For all it’s ambition, it’s really falling into the same path that every MMO is falling in to. And you use that to justify patience.
Let me just ask you – how many of those MMOs lived up to expectations and how many of them are considered failures today?
Oh, I thought when ANet said that people who loved GW1 would love GW2 might include their competitive PvP player base who has all but given up on the PvP in this game. Where is there any indication that they are trying to make eSport?
Also, weren’t we told this game was not going to be like other MMO’s? So why must everyone keep comparing it to MMO’s? I though it was supposed to be different?
Keep blaming the players for having no patience… Lmfao.
Agreed. Much of the game is designed for people who want to farm and grind or carebears who don’t care about a challenge. People who want challenging content or that like team PvP are pretty much kitten outta luck.
Yes who WANT to farm and grind but though who do not want to farm and grind can chose not to unlike every other mmorpg that was ever made. The challenging content is there but you do not want to do it. guild mission are very hard and you can fail them. There high level fractal that are very much fail able. There wvw content that has a challenges to it that never caps. Even in Spvp there is a challenge but its not been showed to you yet so you cant see it.
I don’t consider spamming skills on recharge against bosses with endless amounts of hit points challenging. Boring is more like it.
And I have a winning record in sPvP with over 20 games played. It’s pretty easy really and boring.
Also have enough badges of honor to know zerging is boring and unchallenging too.
Maybe you just aren’t good at the game if you think it is challenging?
Oh and fractals isn’t challenging. Agony might be the most boring mechanic ever added to a game to make it challenging lmfao.
There’s too much other stuff to do. Seriously though, this just goes back to the fact that you think it is ok to release a game in beta so a company can sell out it’s player base for their money ad I don’t think it is ok to release an unfinished game.
Get over it. I don’t care that you’re ok holdin on for years. I’m not. Neither, it seems, is the OP.
The point remains that not having housing is not seen as an incomplete game. You seem to forget that other games, even Guild Wars 1 added tons of stuff over the years. Does that mean it wasn’t complete at launch?
If you think ANY MMO ever is going to be complete at launch or even near complete, you might as well give up on them now.
GW1 was more complete at launch than this pile. And according to you they had a quarter of the staff and less time.
Oh and paying lip service to players and not following through is also not something I think is good. Kinda like they said custom arenas were coming soon. In November.
Define soon? That’s your problem. You don’t have a definition. You’re making up your own. If I say I’m going to be making dinner soon, it wouldn’t be six months later. If I say I’m going to add these features to a program, soon takes on a different definition. You have an unrealistic expectation of what programmers can do and what amount of time they can do it it in. That’s not anyone’s problem but yours.
Lol ok. I thought 6 years was a long time to add basic features to a game that defined their previous game that they had at least 10 years of developing and actual game play.
It’s not my problem, it is the developers problem. Lots of people notice. If the game doesn’t live up to expectations because of it, should we still blame the players?
Just keep defending them an telling me it’s my fault. Lmfao. I love when people say the customer is to blame.
CoF path 1 zerker speed runs for quick profits. Gear doesn’t really drop, it needs to be farmed in specific places over preset period of time depending on what you want.
….I don’t think it is ok to release an unfinished game.
I haven’t logged in for a LONG time..but I just had to ask…this game is technically “unfinished” is it not? They’re constantly evolving the game…I thought that was the entire point.
Constantly evolving and missing key features the game should have shipped with are two different things.
I don’t see housing as a key feature or guild halls, but a LFG tool , guild data log/entry and custom arena are some of the basic for a game and esport that A-net wanted it to be.
A VERY valid point as well.
….I don’t think it is ok to release an unfinished game.
I haven’t logged in for a LONG time..but I just had to ask…this game is technically “unfinished” is it not? They’re constantly evolving the game…I thought that was the entire point.
Constantly evolving and missing key features the game should have shipped with are two different things.
Guild halls and houses are not key features, they add to the game yes but they are not necessary to enjoy the game.
When you expect a key feature of the game should be GvG, then guild halls are a key feature. Sadly, GW2 doesn’t seem to care about it’s old PvP player base. I understand that you may not empathize with me. That’s ok. It used to be that ANet took PvP seriously. That was before they decided to just make games for carebears.
….I don’t think it is ok to release an unfinished game.
I haven’t logged in for a LONG time..but I just had to ask…this game is technically “unfinished” is it not? They’re constantly evolving the game…I thought that was the entire point.
Constantly evolving and missing key features the game should have shipped with are two different things.
Oh and paying lip service to players and not following through is also not something I think is good. Kinda like they said custom arenas were coming soon. In November.
There’s too much other stuff to do. Seriously though, this just goes back to the fact that you think it is ok to release a game in beta so a company can sell out it’s player base for their money ad I don’t think it is ok to release an unfinished game.
Get over it. I don’t care that you’re ok holdin on for years. I’m not. Neither, it seems, is the OP.
I doubt it will happen. They haven’t even added guild halls yet.
Agreed. Much of the game is designed for people who want to farm and grind or carebears who don’t care about a challenge. People who want challenging content or that like team PvP are pretty much kitten outta luck.
But people used it to gain an unfair advantage, which is part of lordkrall’s definition of an exploit.
How on earth do you detect it?
Here’s the issue with the term exploit and what it entails: it’s totally subjective. The law is the same way sometimes and therefore you hear the term “spirit of the law” when you see a judge rule on something.
So here goes:
The mesmer using a portal to get people past the jumping puzzle is against the “spirit” of the concept of jumping puzzles, but I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. In the end, who cares. I would expect that, if A-Net had a problem with it, and I’m not sure they do, and they caught you, your first offense would be a warning. After that it gets more severe. But I’m not sure how practical keeping track of all that is. A players “warning” status or whatever. That being said, I wouldn’t do it, personally.
The mesmer using a portal to get past the boulders in CoF P1 or the past bandit horde in CM butler path is not an exploit, because what else is the portal for? Why have it in the game at all if you couldn’t use it like this? Is there another real use for a portal? It doesn’t violate the spirit of the portal, but using iot to skip a jumping puzzle violates the spirit of the puzzle. That’s the purpose of the puzzle. The purpose of CoF P1 is NOT the boulder trap. Make sense, or am I talking garbage?
Also the law has a concept of “reasonableness” that we can apply here, too. Like the one cheap vendor item that’s vastly cheaper than other comparable items on that same vendor. What does a reasonable person think? I think in general, most people would feel that abusing that, buying 500 and putting them in the mystic forge is an exploit.
The game let me! Is not an excuse or mitigation. Your car lets you drive 100 miles an hour, but that doesn’t mean you should. Ah, but there is a posted speed limit, you may say. Sure, there is. But what’s the law when there is no posted speed limit? Most places have a reasonable and safe catch-all rule in those cases. It’s an inexact allegory, but I think it fits. Google “no posted speed limit law” if you want. Here’s Minnesota’s if anyone cares:
No person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions.
You’re never going to get a concrete definition of an exploit, because there just isn’t one.
I agree with you. That is kind of my point. It is very difficult to define what an exploit is. There are lots of exploits that happen in the game and not all of them are perma-ban-able offenses, which mean there are gray areas already.
To make matters worse, what will get you banned in one game doesn’t necessarily get you banned in another game.
Sure, there are examples of things that very clearly seem like exploits, but there are things that clearly don’t seem like exploits – at least not ban-able ones.
I am of the opinion that everyone here that thinks that exploits are a clear and defined “thing” are wrong. Sure, there are some things that are clear and defined, but a lot aren’t. So much so, that permanent bans are sometimes head scratchers compared to the offense.
Luckily, I’ve never been banned and probably haven’t used an exploit because I’m not hip to the times, but I don’t think it is black and white like a lot of people are saying.
Since every thread I have read about this “problem” doesn’t like the idea of being able to remove the “account bound” status of the ascended gear to put them in the forge or sell them on the TP, I could care less about what you do with the rings.
Selling them to the merchant seems like a good idea.
I don’t honestly think using portal is an exploit. I’m merely pointing out that defining exploits as “skipping stuff” is vague, and as such, using portal to help people “skip stuff” fits that definition. In fact, it is the idea that I think we all agree that using portal isn’t an exploit that shows that lordkrall’s definition is bogus.
That is the point. Learning to read would help a lot of people in this thread.
Does EVERYONE skip things when using a portal? Or does the mesmer actually have to do the thing in question in order to get the portal up for people?
I have asked this several times but for some reason you ignore it.
Because it is irrelevant to your definition. Your definition simply said allowing people to skip stuff. That is it. The reason I used portal is because it almost always is a part of letting people skip stuff.
Although, now that we mention it, I think that thieves using culling in WvW gave them an unfair advantage. Would that be an exploit? If so, why weren’t all the people that did that banned?
Your definition of exploit as it relates to perma-bans is quite vague and poorly defined.
Culling was intentional on the part of the developers. An item priced at one-tenth of what it obviously should be wasn’t. It’s probably a good clue that when you’ve hit the ore for the 40th time in a row and it still hasn’t run out, it’s probably bugged. It’s really not rocket-science, no matter how much you want play with semantics.
Common sense dictates what a true exploit is. The unfortunate part is it isn’t all that common anymore, apparently.
But people used it to gain an unfair advantage, which is part of lordkrall’s definition of an exploit.
I never said I agreed with his definition.
I’m saying apply common sense and the picture becomes pretty clear.
The whole point of me posting was to show that his definition is vague. I have no other argument on this matter except that exploits can sometimes be vague as well. And, some games don’t punish you for exploits as much as others.
Although, now that we mention it, I think that thieves using culling in WvW gave them an unfair advantage. Would that be an exploit? If so, why weren’t all the people that did that banned?
Your definition of exploit as it relates to perma-bans is quite vague and poorly defined.
Culling was intentional on the part of the developers. An item priced at one-tenth of what it obviously should be wasn’t. It’s probably a good clue that when you’ve hit the ore for the 40th time in a row and it still hasn’t run out, it’s probably bugged. It’s really not rocket-science, no matter how much you want play with semantics.
Common sense dictates what a true exploit is. The unfortunate part is it isn’t all that common anymore, apparently.
But people used it to gain an unfair advantage, which is part of lordkrall’s definition of an exploit.
I don’t honestly think using portal is an exploit. I’m merely pointing out that defining exploits as “skipping stuff” is vague, and as such, using portal to help people “skip stuff” fits that definition. In fact, it is the idea that I think we all agree that using portal isn’t an exploit that shows that lordkrall’s definition is bogus.
That is the point. Learning to read would help a lot of people in this thread.
You said skipping content. I use portal to skip content all the time. Is that an exploit? Yes or no? Or would you like to take back the skipping content part of your definition?
You have never used the skill “portal” to help your team skip content? Actually, you just said skip stuff, which is even more vague.
If the portal gives you access to an area you should not have access to by glitching, than it’s an exploit. If the mesmer on the other hand actually has to go to that area first the normal way than it is not an exploit.
I could give examples, but that would either infract me or close the thread entirely.
So you don’t think that there are instances where the portal helps people skip “stuff”?
What I’m trying to point out is that the definition lordkrall gives is way too vague. What is skipping “stuff”?
Just gonna pop in here and say Anet’s perfect game IS the one that makes them the most money. What individual players want is really irrelevant, they are a company and expecting them to act like a business has feelings for people is pretty silly for any company. A lot of companies try to act like it’s important but most of us know better.
Too cynical. If a group of gamers (like, say, the folks at Chucklefish) got together to form a company for the purpose of making an enjoyable game, the “perfect” game, for other gamers, yeah, I would expect that company to “have feelings for people”.
The problem here is that A-NET touted their manifesto and set expectations otherwise, then began making a string of questionable decisions like the RNG stuff to test the money market. Hey, no one’s perfect. But they did squander respect and integrity (in my eyes, and my eyes alone, and you & they don’t really care what an anonymous person on the ‘net thinks, I’m sure). I’m not quitting over it, so they have an opportunity to redeem themselves or get worse. Right now I hold them in the same regard as any other gaming company, out to make as much bucks as possible without worrying about ethics. Ethics being subjective.
So, yeah, a company can be great, profitable, and “have feelings for people”. It just takes a lot of balls to be uncompromising in that vision. They have compromised. I am genuinely quite interested to see whither they goest. They have multiple opportunities to “show they care” or just ignore stuff and learn internally from their mistakes. Corporate or personal? Do-no-wrong publisher or indie game?
Thank you. I’m not naive enough to think that a company doesn’t need or wish to make money, but creating a game for the sake of just making money vs. creating a game for the sake of the game and hoping that it will make money are two different things in my eyes. I think a lot of people will agree that regardless of whether they likes GW1, it set out to do the latter. I’m not so sure the same can be said about GW2, yet.
Making money and caring about your customers is not mutually exclusive. Nor, do I think that what I specifically want in a game is all that matters and that they need to make the game for someone like me, which is what I’ve already heard.
Although, now that we mention it, I think that thieves using culling in WvW gave them an unfair advantage. Would that be an exploit? If so, why weren’t all the people that did that banned?
Your definition of exploit as it relates to perma-bans is quite vague and poorly defined.
Doing something that gives you an unfair advantage or enable you to skip stuff, is quite clearly exploits, and it is also things like these that people have been banned for.
So using portal in CoE or CoF part one or running past mobs until they lose aggro is an exploit?
portalling trough a wall in CoF would be an exploit. I don’t know where you can use that portal to get an unfair advantage in CoE though. Could you please describe it?
When did I say unfair advantage?
You said skipping content. I use portal to skip content all the time. Is that an exploit? Yes or no? Or would you like to take back the skipping content part of your definition?
You have never used the skill “portal” to help your team skip content? Actually, you just said skip stuff, which is even more vague.
I still can’t tell whether I think the developers are actually interested in following the philosophy of GW1 and trying to make their games better to prove that it can work – or if they are simply making their games more like generic MMO’s to sell copies and count their money.
If they are indeed doing the first, no matter how much I think they released the game too early or have major flaws in combat, I support them.
If, however, it is the second, then I don’t really give a kitten what happens to GW2.
This is a really really interesting post.
I’m not so sure there are only two options here. Maybe they are neither trying to be like Guild Wars 1 or like WoW.
They don’t need to be making it like GW1, simply that they are actually trying to make a better game, similar to when they made GW1, they were trying to make a better game. I’m not convinced they are.
A lot of fanboys tell me that they are trying to make a game to make everyone happy. That doesn’t equate to making a better game, it just equates to making a game that will get everyone to buy it regardless of whether they will like it for long. IMO, of course.
Trying to make a game where different demographics of players have something to do, is not quite the same as trying to keep everyone happy. I guess you think they should make a game that just keeps players that like what you like happy, and I guess that’s fair enough.
I know that not everyone plays like me, so they have to make stuff for other people too. Because it’s a big ambitious game and it needs people to play it. That won’t happen if they don’t support different demographics.
How well they’re doing depends on who you ask. I think that abandoning some of the stuff that people had problems with in Guild Wars 1 (even people who played it later), isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
Can you, for once, not put words in my mouth and tell me that my opinion is wrong?
I don’t give a flying kitten if they make a game that I like. What I do care about is this company used to mean something. They used to try and make a game objectively better – not just try to make a game that is OK just to make a lot of people happy just to sell a lot of copies. If I wanted a game that was made just to sell a bunch of copies I can pick one up anywhere.
They had a manifesto – that no matter how you read it – had grand visions of making a game that would appeal to people who don’t like MMO’s. They had a vision of, IMO, making a game objectively better and not falling into the same traps as the same old MMO.
Regardless of how well they accomplished this, I am not certain that they stuck to their guns and didn’t sell out for the cash.
That is all. Your arrogance is incredible.
You seem to think that making a game for the masses and trying to become rich is OK. So do I, I just don’t give a kitten about a company that tried to do that. What I did once care about, is that ANet wanted to make the perfect game, and in doing so, would happen to attract players. Not just making a game to attract players to make money.
Doing something that gives you an unfair advantage or enable you to skip stuff, is quite clearly exploits, and it is also things like these that people have been banned for.
So using portal in CoE or CoF part one or running past mobs until they lose aggro is an exploit?
I still can’t tell whether I think the developers are actually interested in following the philosophy of GW1 and trying to make their games better to prove that it can work – or if they are simply making their games more like generic MMO’s to sell copies and count their money.
If they are indeed doing the first, no matter how much I think they released the game too early or have major flaws in combat, I support them.
If, however, it is the second, then I don’t really give a kitten what happens to GW2.
This is a really really interesting post.
I’m not so sure there are only two options here. Maybe they are neither trying to be like Guild Wars 1 or like WoW.
They don’t need to be making it like GW1, simply that they are actually trying to make a better game, similar to when they made GW1, they were trying to make a better game. I’m not convinced they are.
A lot of fanboys tell me that they are trying to make a game to make everyone happy. That doesn’t equate to making a better game, it just equates to making a game that will get everyone to buy it regardless of whether they will like it for long. IMO, of course.
Bad logic is bad logic.
Perma banning players for developer bugs is a bit ridiculous. I understand that some things are clear exploits, but most aren’t.
Me too. Getting old.
I still can’t tell whether I think the developers are actually interested in following the philosophy of GW1 and trying to make their games better to prove that it can work – or if they are simply making their games more like generic MMO’s to sell copies and count their money.
If they are indeed doing the first, no matter how much I think they released the game too early or have major flaws in combat, I support them.
If, however, it is the second, then I don’t really give a kitten what happens to GW2.
Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies over 7 years or a million copies a year.
Wrong on so many levels…
Most of the classes/skills in GW2 are not balanced too, GW1 wasn’t balanced, but at least it offered more diversity, hell, how hard was it to increase the Shadow Form CD to 1 minute as it was back in 2007?
There is such a huge difference in the type of imbalance we’re talking about here. The way Guild Wars 1 was set up, there was just no possible way to balance it. I mean, you think 4 zerker warriors and a mesmer are anything like a perma-sin, or a rank 8 ursan? Totally different level of unbalanced.
Imagine if you told Guild Wars 2 players today that a character could make himself immune to damage permanently. Or that a single player, like an imbagon paragon could mitigate 90% of the parties incoming damage with almost 100% up time. People would think you were mad.
Yes, this game has some balance issues, but they’re nowhere near as bad as the stuff that came up in Guild Wars 1.
Balance became a problem after they introduced new skills and classes, which GW2 has neither done and which you yourself agree they should not do without balancing things first.
The fact is that GW1 WAS balanced early in the game. It was much more balanced in the first year of prophecies than GW2 is now in its first year.
The problem is that they’re GOING to introduce more. NO MMO is going to leave skills untouched forever. So starting here, where it can be balanced is the smart thing to do long term.
In a perfect world people don’t get bored of the same skills. In this world they do. Therefore, for the long term health of the game, starting this way is smarter. As more skills come out, the game becomes deeper.
I’m must saying that the introduction of new skills created imbalance in GW1. It is my opinion that the balance in the game now is way off compared to Prophecies. Actually, I think the balance is way off in general. Not between professions, but between making something other than direct damage the best and only route to winning.
I agree that they will need to add more skills to keep people happy. Doing that responsibly would be appreciated. But, fixing team combat now would be nice first.
What makes you think they’re not fixing it? I just think they’re not fixing it fast enough. It’s the whole patience thing. It takes time for MMOs to shake the kinks out. Time often measured in years, not months.
Sorry, but I don’t really have years of patience for a company that has progressively made its product worse and worse with every expansion or new product, in my opinion.
What? Factions was a huge upgrade to Prophecies. I mean, yeah, the Kaineng part of Cantha sucked, as did the sewers under it, but the mob design was generally fun to fight, the soundtrack was the best in Guild Wars 1, Alliance Battles and Competitive Missions were a fun, casual pvp gimmick, Challenge Missions were an interesting feature, the new elite dungeons were a great addition, the story was better told than that of Prophecies, the new professions were fun, and the Kurzick and Luxon maps were gorgeous.
There was nothing “bad” about Factions as a whole. Nor was there anything wrong with Nightfall’s gameplay – though the maps were most definitely lacking and the Paragon did nothing good for game balance.
In your opinion. In my world, they progressively gave us more OP and unbalanced builds to account for in PvP.
See, our perspectives are just different. I agree that there were GREAT things about Factions and Nightfall, but there were things that started the ball rolling to me quitting the game.
It’s just an opinion, nothing personal.
Most of the classes/skills in GW2 are not balanced too, GW1 wasn’t balanced, but at least it offered more diversity, hell, how hard was it to increase the Shadow Form CD to 1 minute as it was back in 2007?
There is such a huge difference in the type of imbalance we’re talking about here. The way Guild Wars 1 was set up, there was just no possible way to balance it. I mean, you think 4 zerker warriors and a mesmer are anything like a perma-sin, or a rank 8 ursan? Totally different level of unbalanced.
Imagine if you told Guild Wars 2 players today that a character could make himself immune to damage permanently. Or that a single player, like an imbagon paragon could mitigate 90% of the parties incoming damage with almost 100% up time. People would think you were mad.
Yes, this game has some balance issues, but they’re nowhere near as bad as the stuff that came up in Guild Wars 1.
Balance became a problem after they introduced new skills and classes, which GW2 has neither done and which you yourself agree they should not do without balancing things first.
The fact is that GW1 WAS balanced early in the game. It was much more balanced in the first year of prophecies than GW2 is now in its first year.
The problem is that they’re GOING to introduce more. NO MMO is going to leave skills untouched forever. So starting here, where it can be balanced is the smart thing to do long term.
In a perfect world people don’t get bored of the same skills. In this world they do. Therefore, for the long term health of the game, starting this way is smarter. As more skills come out, the game becomes deeper.
I’m must saying that the introduction of new skills created imbalance in GW1. It is my opinion that the balance in the game now is way off compared to Prophecies. Actually, I think the balance is way off in general. Not between professions, but between making something other than direct damage the best and only route to winning.
I agree that they will need to add more skills to keep people happy. Doing that responsibly would be appreciated. But, fixing team combat now would be nice first.
What makes you think they’re not fixing it? I just think they’re not fixing it fast enough. It’s the whole patience thing. It takes time for MMOs to shake the kinks out. Time often measured in years, not months.
Sorry, but I don’t really have years of patience for a company that has progressively made its product worse and worse with every expansion or new product, in my opinion.
Most of the classes/skills in GW2 are not balanced too, GW1 wasn’t balanced, but at least it offered more diversity, hell, how hard was it to increase the Shadow Form CD to 1 minute as it was back in 2007?
There is such a huge difference in the type of imbalance we’re talking about here. The way Guild Wars 1 was set up, there was just no possible way to balance it. I mean, you think 4 zerker warriors and a mesmer are anything like a perma-sin, or a rank 8 ursan? Totally different level of unbalanced.
Imagine if you told Guild Wars 2 players today that a character could make himself immune to damage permanently. Or that a single player, like an imbagon paragon could mitigate 90% of the parties incoming damage with almost 100% up time. People would think you were mad.
Yes, this game has some balance issues, but they’re nowhere near as bad as the stuff that came up in Guild Wars 1.
Balance became a problem after they introduced new skills and classes, which GW2 has neither done and which you yourself agree they should not do without balancing things first.
The fact is that GW1 WAS balanced early in the game. It was much more balanced in the first year of prophecies than GW2 is now in its first year.
The problem is that they’re GOING to introduce more. NO MMO is going to leave skills untouched forever. So starting here, where it can be balanced is the smart thing to do long term.
In a perfect world people don’t get bored of the same skills. In this world they do. Therefore, for the long term health of the game, starting this way is smarter. As more skills come out, the game becomes deeper.
I’m must saying that the introduction of new skills created imbalance in GW1. It is my opinion that the balance in the game now is way off compared to Prophecies. Actually, I think the balance is way off in general. Not between professions, but between making something other than direct damage the best and only route to winning.
I agree that they will need to add more skills to keep people happy. Doing that responsibly would be appreciated. But, fixing team combat now would be nice first.
I can see Skyrim/Morrowind, maybe Two Worlds or something being a good alternative, or even GW1.
That reminds me I never did finish Morrowind, I got way sidetracked doing . . . stuff. Random, gloriously uninteresting stuff like trying to scour the countryside for caverns/dungeons/shrines and tearing through them with Umbra.
Same thing happened to me in Skyrim, although Morrowind was the better of the two games.
Morrowind was a grindfest so I would disagree.
Do you ever agree with anyone?
I can see Skyrim/Morrowind, maybe Two Worlds or something being a good alternative, or even GW1.
That reminds me I never did finish Morrowind, I got way sidetracked doing . . . stuff. Random, gloriously uninteresting stuff like trying to scour the countryside for caverns/dungeons/shrines and tearing through them with Umbra.
Same thing happened to me in Skyrim, although Morrowind was the better of the two games.
Some of you keep on comparing GW2, just one game with gw1 with full expansion. I don’t think that’s fair. Come up with competetive build with only prophecies skills and talk about build diversity. I still think the dual professions was more part of the build diversity than the skills of the class itself.
I dont care about pvp so I should have said PVE only.
Fair enough, but I think that the elites and skills in Prophecies were some of the best in the game and that there were a lot of viable PvE builds in Prophecies.
For months, most of the posts for dueling have been asking for open world PvP.
I don’t get why A-Net wouldn’t have a couple PVP servers. That sort of surprised me. I played for a time on a PVP server in Asheron’s Call a hunnert years ago, not my cup of tea, but I dunno why they would just ignore it altogether.
I think that is what WvW is supposed to be.
I think there is a miscommunication between both sides here.
For months, most of the posts for dueling have been asking for open world PvP.
Pretty much duel anywhere, anytime. If that is not what the posters here are asking for, they need to be a bit more clear.
I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but if players went to go duel in an arena, more power to them. Out of sight, out of mind. In GW1 we used to do it all the time in our guild hall. Dueling anywhere? NO!
In a ga,e I played years ago, can’t even remember the name, if you wanted to duel, you turned on the option. It would show other players you where looking. 2 players meet, they both accept the duel, they disappear in to an instance. That would be fine, and I can’t see any reason the duelists would reject that.
Ya, I agree with this. I didn’t think people were actually talking about open world dueling – I thought we were discussing 1v1 in arenas.
For people that want open world dueling, go roam solo in WvW.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game. LOL!
Seriously, just because you don’t like the OP or disagree with him doesn’t mean it’s a troll post. There are plenty of people that have beef with the game.
The OP is however doing more or less the definition of trolling with that post.
It basically is. There’s been a million of these.
If it was the same person, I would agree. However, it is different people and they have all realized that something about this game isn’t fun for them – and they have the right to post about that feeling for the the devs to see without the need of being called a troll.
Honestly I think they’re playing the wrong game. I don’t mean that in a mean way, I mean that in “this game isn’t suited to their long term needs” kind of way.
I just wish more people shared this attitude about the non-fun jumping puzzles.
I agree. I know I’m playing the wrong game. There is, however, very little competition it seems out there in the MMO genre at the moment.
I keep telling myself I want to play The Secret World, but I have unreasonable problems with playing non-fantasy MMO type games.
Actually, I don’t even like MMOs. GW1 was the closest thing to an MMO I played, but I LOVED IT.
I will probably go back to Skyrim and turn up the difficulty meter another notch while waiting for the next good single player fantasy RPG.
I think a lot of people, like me, are in limbo and are bumming around GW2 because it is F2P.
You most likely won’t be playing GW2 much longer than. It is a known fact that custom arenas will be added to the game and one of those reasons is specifically to add dueling, which the developers think is a good and necessary part of an MMO.
So, is it REALLY worth quitting over dueling if you like the rest of the game?
I doubt many people have an objection to an arena where where players can go and duel, because you have to opt in to something like that. Anyone objecting to that is selfish, IMO. You going off somewhere else to duel doesn’t affect me in the slightest. There is enough desire in the player base to justify developer time in creating an arena for people to duel in, and a way for people to watch those duels.
However, wanting to wave your weenie around Lion’s Arch while labeling those of us that don’t want to be forced watch as selfish is hypocritical in the extreme.
Understand the difference, Clay, or should I go back to ignoring your opinion on the matter? Either way is fine, but I’d just as soon not be uncivil.
I don’t see the difference. I think the OP is just asking for the ability to 1v1 without having to do something that wasn’t intended, such as using an empty PvP space or go into WvW.
What am I missing?
I thought dueling was optional in other games as well. Is that not the case?
Sorry, I just reread the thread and realized that it wasn’t you. Wrong guy. I should have addressed this to jayb.
Lol, ok. I was really confused.
You most likely won’t be playing GW2 much longer than. It is a known fact that custom arenas will be added to the game and one of those reasons is specifically to add dueling, which the developers think is a good and necessary part of an MMO.
So, is it REALLY worth quitting over dueling if you like the rest of the game?
I doubt many people have an objection to an arena where where players can go and duel, because you have to opt in to something like that. Anyone objecting to that is selfish, IMO. You going off somewhere else to duel doesn’t affect me in the slightest. There is enough desire in the player base to justify developer time in creating an arena for people to duel in, and a way for people to watch those duels.
However, wanting to wave your weenie around Lion’s Arch while labeling those of us that don’t want to be forced watch as selfish is hypocritical in the extreme.
Understand the difference, Clay, or should I go back to ignoring your opinion on the matter? Either way is fine, but I’d just as soon not be uncivil.
I don’t see the difference. I think the OP is just asking for the ability to 1v1 without having to do something that wasn’t intended, such as using an empty PvP space or go into WvW.
What am I missing?
I thought dueling was optional in other games as well. Is that not the case?
Yes, it’s completely optional, and it’s completely unobtrusive.
I was never a big dueler, but this outcry over dueling is ridiculous.
Ya, I feel like I am missing something huge about all of this. People keep telling me to read the thread, but all I see is a guy asking to do legit 1v1 and people freaking out.
So because the OP doesn’t state his opinion in an eloquent and concise manner in order to not step on the fanboys’ toes he’s a troll? C’mon guys, you are getting way too worked up reading between the lines.
You most likely won’t be playing GW2 much longer than. It is a known fact that custom arenas will be added to the game and one of those reasons is specifically to add dueling, which the developers think is a good and necessary part of an MMO.
So, is it REALLY worth quitting over dueling if you like the rest of the game?
I doubt many people have an objection to an arena where where players can go and duel, because you have to opt in to something like that. Anyone objecting to that is selfish, IMO. You going off somewhere else to duel doesn’t affect me in the slightest. There is enough desire in the player base to justify developer time in creating an arena for people to duel in, and a way for people to watch those duels.
However, wanting to wave your weenie around Lion’s Arch while labeling those of us that don’t want to be forced watch as selfish is hypocritical in the extreme.
Understand the difference, Clay, or should I go back to ignoring your opinion on the matter? Either way is fine, but I’d just as soon not be uncivil.
I don’t see the difference. I think the OP is just asking for the ability to 1v1 without having to do something that wasn’t intended, such as using an empty PvP space or go into WvW.
What am I missing?
I thought dueling was optional in other games as well. Is that not the case?
And can’t you just see what would happen if they did add duels?
“x class is to powerful, nerf them”.
“y has an unfair advantage because they have x,y,z”.
“Anet needs to balance skills so all classes are equal in duels”.
“Heavy armor is to strong,”.
“Light armor is to weak”.
“my rare armored ele can’t stay alive when fighting an exotic out fitted warrior”.Oh the joy!
I have played games with dueling. I don’t play them any longer.
Enough said.You most likely won’t be playing GW2 much longer than. It is a known fact that custom arenas will be added to the game and one of those reasons is specifically to add dueling, which the developers think is a good and necessary part of an MMO.
So, is it REALLY worth quitting over dueling if you like the rest of the game?
Is this arena you speak of going to be like sPvP is now? I hope they do not allow dueling with your PvE gear.
I don’t know, but I would think it would be similar to the way you gear through sPvP, not PvE.
And can’t you just see what would happen if they did add duels?
“x class is to powerful, nerf them”.
“y has an unfair advantage because they have x,y,z”.
“Anet needs to balance skills so all classes are equal in duels”.
“Heavy armor is to strong,”.
“Light armor is to weak”.
“my rare armored ele can’t stay alive when fighting an exotic out fitted warrior”.Oh the joy!
I have played games with dueling. I don’t play them any longer.
Enough said.
You most likely won’t be playing GW2 much longer than. It is a known fact that custom arenas will be added to the game and one of those reasons is specifically to add dueling, which the developers think is a good and necessary part of an MMO.
So, is it REALLY worth quitting over dueling if you like the rest of the game?