Guild Wars 2

I see a lot of talk from thieves on here about anticipating skills (for example interrupting CnD). It is extremely important to note that while anticipating skills is valuable, it is a tactic that is far less risky for thieves as compared to classes with normal cool downs.

If a thief misses a headshot, no big deal – only four seconds of initiative lost, and you can immediately try again if you’d like. For most other classes, you really don’t have the luxury of guessing with your cc cool downs.

Just how other classes need to understand the subtleties of a shared cd pool, it would be nice for thieves to think about the consequences of separate cool downs before lecturing someone with a l2p argument.

yodog.4208:

If you get us low enough we will reset the fight and that counts as a victory for you.

News to me. I really need to submit a bug report to anet for all of those missing loot bags.

Did we actually throw a bone to mesmers?! Better hot fix it!

It is like this patch all over again:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-January-3-2013/first#post1139008

I tried power block with 30/20/20. So far, I prefer CI to Power Block. Power Block feels almost more defensive (slowing down the opponent’s rotations) whereas CI feels more offensive (immob’ing the enemy to setup bursts). Of course both traits can be used offensively/defensively, but that’s how it feels to me.

Nettle’s 30/10/30 seems like the most viable option, although it’ll probably play a little slower with the phantasm approach.

I agree that a banker/trading post/merchant would be nice additions.

A 0.3s window of vulnerability.

#thiefproblems

Eve.1580:

HeadCrowned.6834:

I haven’t noticed any improvements on the thieves/warriors yet. And Necro’s got too much of a buff? Which ones lol.

Warriors and thieves have always had an advantage in sPvP. But have you played the new map? Necros ALL DAY. Wells are wiping entire teams without skill necessary. They just need to be balanced on this new map. That and their new heal ability, buddy told me he’s nearly invincible in groups now. Then again, that was WvW

Losing to wells in a team death match setting is probably a l2p issue.

Shockwave.1230:

cyyrix.6105:

Narcarsis.5739:

I’m not sure what to what to do about Mesmer’s steal, as I find their stolen ability to be fairly balanced. The issues with the match up lie elsewhere.

A lyssa proc with twice the boon duration on half the CD. Such balance.

Still, I agree — there are other issues with the mesmer/thief match-up that are more important than consume plasma.

Consume Plasma isn’t a lyssa proc, no conditions are removed.

Excellent point — we all know thieves slot lyssa runes for condi clear, not burst setup.

Keep in mind that anyone interested in spvp enough to read this forum doesn’t need this advice.

Narcarsis.5739:

I’m not sure what to what to do about Mesmer’s steal, as I find their stolen ability to be fairly balanced. The issues with the match up lie elsewhere.

A lyssa proc with twice the boon duration on half the CD. Such balance.

Still, I agree — there are other issues with the mesmer/thief match-up that are more important than consume plasma.

DeceiverX.8361:

cyyrix.6105:

Cygnus.6903:

This is a thief nerf.

therefor, it should never be implemented without significantly buffing thief survivability options out of stealth. D/P and D/D would become unusable instantly otherwise.

IMO, stealth is not a problem right now.

I almost never side with thieves, but he’s right. That reveal change would destroy dp and dd.

My solution is to make backstab cost 3-4 initiative. If you spam backstab and miss, you should be punished somehow (but not revealed). Maybe move BS to f2 and then give a stealth auto attack so that the intelligent thieves can still clear blind/aegis at no cost.

This would actually be even worse.

As you’d spend 6 initiative on CnD and against say, a guardian, which has permanent auto-aegis when entering a combat situation, thus requiring another CnD, putting you at around 5-6 by regen, and you’d spend the other 6 getting into stealth on the first defense break, leaving the thief at 0, and the guard could just pop blocks or his aegis again.

Or ya know, you could not waste 6 initiative on a guardian’s auto-aegis and use an auto-attack to clear it instead…

I know, I know, way too much to ask for from a thief.

tom.7468:

cyyrix.6105:

caveman.5840:

cyyrix.6105:

Cygnus.6903:

This is a thief nerf.

therefor, it should never be implemented without significantly buffing thief survivability options out of stealth. D/P and D/D would become unusable instantly otherwise.

IMO, stealth is not a problem right now.

I almost never side with thieves, but he’s right. That reveal change would destroy dp and dd.

My solution is to make backstab cost 3-4 initiative. If you spam backstab and miss, you should be punished somehow (but not revealed). Maybe move BS to f2 and then give a stealth auto attack so that the intelligent thieves can still clear blind/aegis at no cost.

the thing about making missed back stabs cost initiative
is it would only hurt in fights where it is thief VS anything in stealth.
the only time a thief will spam the stab in stealth is if they r trying to hit another player in stealth .
just making stealth on stealth fights harder for no reason

Not true at all. Many, many, many times thieves have tried to backstab me while I’m blocking, evading, or dodging. When they miss, they just keep spamming until it lands. They should be punished for that somehow.

If I manage to predict the timing of the backstab and dodge roll, currently the thief loses nothing, but I lose half of my endurance. That makes no sense.

As I said, if an intelligent thief is skilled enough to clear my block using a stealth auto attack, I’m ok with that. It is just the free backstab spamming that needs to be fixed.

If a theif use CnD they have 3 seconds to get behind you and hit you with backstab.
3 seconds if you wait 1 second then dodge they are revealed already.
Also there is no such thing as stealth autoattack. Any attack from stealth reveal them.
It need to stay like that because otherwise it would be way too easy to block every single try with any profession.

Dodging lasts 0.75 seconds. According to your scenario, if I wait 1 second and then dodge the backstab, the thief still has 1.25 seconds left to land the backstab. If I dodge a second time, the thief still has 0.5 seconds to continue attempting, yet I’m out of endurance. That’s terrible game design. Thieves literally have nothing to lose by spamming backstab over and over and over again until it lands.

As I said previously, my solution is to make backstab cost 3-4 initiative. This punishes thieves for missing a backstab, but doesn’t reveal them. Revealing the thief for a missed attack would be way too harsh.

Furthermore, I suggest moving backstab up to f2 to give thieves an auto attack while in stealth. With that, intelligent thieves can clear blind/aegis at no initiative cost before proceeding with a backstab attempt.

caveman.5840:

cyyrix.6105:

Cygnus.6903:

This is a thief nerf.

therefor, it should never be implemented without significantly buffing thief survivability options out of stealth. D/P and D/D would become unusable instantly otherwise.

IMO, stealth is not a problem right now.

I almost never side with thieves, but he’s right. That reveal change would destroy dp and dd.

My solution is to make backstab cost 3-4 initiative. If you spam backstab and miss, you should be punished somehow (but not revealed). Maybe move BS to f2 and then give a stealth auto attack so that the intelligent thieves can still clear blind/aegis at no cost.

the thing about making missed back stabs cost initiative
is it would only hurt in fights where it is thief VS anything in stealth.
the only time a thief will spam the stab in stealth is if they r trying to hit another player in stealth .
just making stealth on stealth fights harder for no reason

Not true at all. Many, many, many times thieves have tried to backstab me while I’m blocking, evading, or dodging. When they miss, they just keep spamming until it lands. They should be punished for that somehow.

If I manage to predict the timing of the backstab and dodge roll, currently the thief loses nothing, but I lose half of my endurance. That makes no sense.

As I said, if an intelligent thief is skilled enough to clear my block using a stealth auto attack, I’m ok with that. It is just the free backstab spamming that needs to be fixed.

Cygnus.6903:

This is a thief nerf.

therefor, it should never be implemented without significantly buffing thief survivability options out of stealth. D/P and D/D would become unusable instantly otherwise.

IMO, stealth is not a problem right now.

I almost never side with thieves, but he’s right. That reveal change would destroy dp and dd.

My solution is to make backstab cost 3-4 initiative. If you spam backstab and miss, you should be punished somehow (but not revealed). Maybe move BS to f2 and then give a stealth auto attack so that the intelligent thieves can still clear blind/aegis at no cost.

People say precision will be less important because the ferocity change comes with a nerf to crit damage. This makes all of those “highest average dps” calculations tip more towards power.

Of course these calculations drastically oversimplify actual gameplay, but that’s where the idea comes from.

Lots of good mesmers out there, but the one that stands out for me is Seven Mirror.

Seven was easily the best solo/small man wvw roaming mesmer to play the game. Definitely in the running for best roamer ever. Seven was top notch in both theory crafting and gameplay. He led the mesmer roaming meta for a long time. On top of all that he was a great guy.

A real shame he left the game. Any wvw roamers should check out his YouTube videos, even if the builds are completely outdated.

Thieves should probably be revealed when an attack is blocked. If not that, at the very least they should lose initiative for spamming backstab/unload attempts. Backstab spamming rewards extremely unskilled play.

For warriors…try not to worry about 1v1s with them. Sure you can win in the end, but usually it’s a colossal waste of time.

My advice would be to drop decoy and pick up portal. Lay a portal on the warrior’s point, then go contribute to a different fight. The hambow is now out of the game for 60 seconds. If he rotates off, portal back for an easy decap.

At first it’s hard to give up decoy, but in the end you’ll be a lot more effective.

With what we know, it looks like mesmers will be worse off. Most of the changes favor tanky/condition builds, which is generally bad news for mesmers.

• Announced mesmer changes include a nerf to vigor uptime and bug fixes
• New mesmer GM traits appear worthless or outclassed by existing traits (except Triumphant Distortion for large-scale wvw mesmers)
• Other classes’ new GM traits seem to favor conditions
• Lyssa runes (most pvp mesmers use these) have been nerfed to only clear 5 conditions

People seem to be excited to try condi shatter, as well as a full lockdown build. They should both be fun to play, but probably won’t make mesmer any better off than it is now.

Thanks for posting. What great commentary on the current state of the Shadow Arts trait line. Reminds me a lot of when I play PU mesmer without armor (your favorite gw2 trait, I know).

Azukas.1426:

cyyrix.6105:

Azukas.1426:

Minto.9201:

Azukas.1426:

cyyrix.6105:

Ask thieves in this thread how they feel about Prismatic Understanding (mesmer GM trait). In their responses, replace the word “mesmer” with “thief” and the words “Prismatic Understanding” with “Shadow Arts”.

That’s your answer.

I’m sure any thief would swap PU with SR in a heartbeat…..

I’m sure you would but he said SA not SR.,,

GM trait for GM trait….you wanna swap lines is different story

I know you were just trying to be cute, but it’s important to consider build concepts as a whole. Regardless of which traits provide which mechanics, the playstyles of a Shadow Arts thief and a Prismatic Understanding mesmer are quite similar.

So what you’re saying is you have no point???

Yet my statement still stands. Everyone complains about in healing in stealth but seem to forget that there are traits like PU that kitten all over SR

I think you’re the one without a point. I was trying to answer the OP’s question. You tried to make this a balance discussion between PU and SR. No one asked for that. (In fact your initial comment even confused someone in the thread because it was so off topic.)

The OP wants to know why the gw2 community considers Shadow Arts builds cheesy. I advised him to ask thieves how they feel about Prismatic Understanding. This makes sense because the two playstyles are quite similar, but thieves generally have a stronger opinion about PU than they do SA.

Azukas.1426:

Minto.9201:

Azukas.1426:

cyyrix.6105:

Ask thieves in this thread how they feel about Prismatic Understanding (mesmer GM trait). In their responses, replace the word “mesmer” with “thief” and the words “Prismatic Understanding” with “Shadow Arts”.

That’s your answer.

I’m sure any thief would swap PU with SR in a heartbeat…..

I’m sure you would but he said SA not SR.,,

GM trait for GM trait….you wanna swap lines is different story

I know you were just trying to be cute, but it’s important to consider build concepts as a whole. Regardless of which traits provide which mechanics, the playstyles of a Shadow Arts thief and a Prismatic Understanding mesmer are quite similar.

Ask thieves in this thread how they feel about Prismatic Understanding (mesmer GM trait). In their responses, replace the word “mesmer” with “thief” and the words “Prismatic Understanding” with “Shadow Arts”.

That’s your answer.

Thanks Doiid for typing this all up. People need to realize that while the trait sounds incredible on paper, it will be pointless against many skills where CI still sees some benefit. Power Lock will be fun to test, but right now I only see mesmers taking this when they run an all-out lockdown of 6/4/6/0/0.

The interrupt/initiative issues with thieves just makes the trait that much worse. Thieves should always lose initiative equal to the cost of the skill when interrupted, and double the initiative lost when interrupted with Power Block (in lieu of putting their weapon skills on interrupt cd).

Arken.3725:

Edit: And it is true, Power lock has very little counterplay once activated. The skill ceiling of this is very low to due its nature of being instant.

Please consider preemptive vs reactive counters.

Stability, aegis, blind, stealth, block, invuln, baiting, los. All viable counters to power lock. I’ll leave it at that as I don’t want to derail your thread. Thanks again for taking the time with the podcast

Thanks, a fun listen.

I have to disagree about the opinion on Mesmer’s Disruptor’s Sustainment, though. It is a joke. Mesmer healing has terrible scalability with healing power. The math works out to about +600 hp/proc for regen and about +320 hp/proc for Resorative Mantras.

I also disagree with your sentiment about interrupt memsers (no counterplay? your heal is literally immune to interrupts!!), but I’ll save that conversation for another thread.

Yeah, I spent about 20 minutes trying to theory craft something out of this trait but gave up. It would need to be focused around regen, not Restorative Mantras.

My best guess was a support oriented 0/4(II,VI)/4(IV,VIII)/6(V,X,XIII)/0, sharing regen with Phantasmal Healing. Unfortunately phantasms don’t live long when fighting multiple enemies. Maybe go 0/2/6/6/0 to pick up PU for ultimate tank mode and then run SoI?

We’ll see how it plays, but at first blush it is too much of an investment for 5s of decent healing.

Posters in this thread need to l2summarize. Way too many walls of text. My opinion:

• Thieves should not have any form of interruption immunity. They should always be punished for being interrupted (i.e., losing initiative), like every other class.

• Interrupt CDs on thieves’ weapon skills doesn’t fit well with the initiative system. That said, if thief weapon skills didn’t promote spamming I might be in favor of it.

• My solution: Initiative loss on all interrupted skills. For the new Power Block trait, double the initiative loss.

Black Scoutsman.5830:

So who here thinks that the double recharge on interrupts is not going to have in ICD? lol we’re talking about a game where only maybe 4 or 5 decent and popularly used traits doesnt have an ICD. ITs not liek their just gonna faceroll across interrupts and poof all ur skills are on 10 second recharge. Everyone wants to complain about it before they even know what it is.

Side note: did anyone even play GW1??

It probably won’t have an ICD (only one interrupt trait has an ICD). If it has any ICD longer than a few seconds, the trait will be awful.

The interrupt playstyle involves setup interrupts (usually against weapon skills) that lead to a clutch interrupt (usually against a heal or an elite).

If the trait has an ICD, it will almost always apply to a setup interrupt and never to a clutch interrupt, making the trait much less effective.

It definitely looks like fun, but we’ll have to see how it plays.

CI is such a strong interrupt trait that it will be hard to give up. If Debilitating Dissipation gets nerfed, dropping Deceptive Evasion in favor of 30/10/30 might be fun. Otherwise it’s probably a choice of 30/20/20 or 20/20/30.

Still though, great news for interrupt mesmers! Throwing off thieves with a 10s Hide in Shadows CD sounds so juicy! Now all we need is a 1s cast time on Reset Refuge

StickerHappy.8052:

What if i tell you i can spam my interrupts?

If you think that, then we have different ideas of what constitutes spam.

If you’re implying that you’re good at timing your dazes for interrupts, that’s not spamming. If you’re implying that you can spam all of your dazes and chain interrupt someone with reliability, then I’d like to see that.

What makes PU mesmers tanky is not the chaos line, but the boons from the trait. CI isn’t remotely close to the tankiness of PU. Not to mention CI builds are power oriented which are usually less tanky than condi.

The mesmer can spam dazes, but not interrupts. If he spams daze, the mesmer crumbles. 2-3 traits in the build rely on interrupts and would be completely wasted (including the GM trait).

Like many builds, it is stronger against certain classes (primarily those with vulnerable heal animations and poor access to stability), as Blackbeard noted with his ele.

Allie Murdock.8152:

How does it feel unbalanced compared to other class mechanics?

Blurred Frenzy:

• CD: hard 12s
• Stun: none
• Evade: 2.5s
• Damage Coefficient: 2.4

Pistol Whip:

• CD: soft 5s (5 initiative x 1 init/s = 5s)
• Stun: 0.5s
• Evade: 1.5s
• Damage Coefficient: 3.14 (30% more damage)

I don’t main thief, but I do troll around spvp with a PW spec.

The improv trait change looks awesome. We don’t have to worry about cooldowns on weapon skills, so it never really made sense to have cds on the utility skills. Much more consistent now.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Mesmer: Mind Stab, Illusionary Wave, Chaos Storm, Temporal Curtain -> Into the Void, The Prestige

I know I speak for all mesmers when I say countering SR is obviously a l2p issue. I mean this guy has pretty much given us the blueprint…

Mind Stab: Nothing better than taking a guess at a 240 radius skill with a 120 radius skill! If it hits, you’ll do about 1.5k AND strip a boon!!! Amazing.

Chaos Storm: So good. Just put it on top of that little house and you’ll probably hit the thief for like 300-1k dmg! It’s unstoppable.

The Prestige: Thieves absolutely HATE it when you aoe blind them while in SR. Even better is that you’ll have a chance to guess which direction he ran after the refuge and maybe you’ll get a burning proc. Many thieves heal/cure conditions in stealth, but you should still be able to get in a good 1k hp if you guess correctly!

Temporal Curtain/Into the Void: This thing is amazing. With TC at a .25s cast time, and Into the Void cast time at 1s, the thief only has 1.25 seconds to notice the bright aoe line on the ground and dodge backwards. Just make sure you don’t try to catch the thief off guard by waiting to pull – the SR will be done pulsing by then.

Illusionary Wave: Another clutch SR counter. It works wonders…unless the thief uses a 1200 range blink before the SR, has a dodge available, or sets the refuge on any terrain with a slope of more than 10 degrees.

Just remember that even you get the thief down but he manages to self-rez in stealth, that means that his down-state timer is now on!! That gives you a massive advantage that shouldn’t be overlooked.

tldr: l2p issue. buff SR

hihey.1075:

cyyrix.6105:

PU = shadow arts thief = perplexity anything = terrormancer = healing signet warrior

Is PU cheesy? Sure. Unfortunately there is so much cheese in this game (especially in wvw) that it’s hard to consider anything cheesy at all.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter – 95% of the people that whine about PU are wvw roamers playing one of the above-mentioned specs.

I can name at least 2-3 counter specs to anything you mentioned. There is only one exception, guess what it is?
Anyway I’m out of this conversation as it’s going nowhere and PU users will not stop using it unless it’s nerfed. Oh the cries when it will happen!

Shadow arts thief confirmed.

PU = shadow arts thief = perplexity anything = terrormancer = healing signet warrior

Is PU cheesy? Sure. Unfortunately there is so much cheese in this game (especially in wvw) that it’s hard to consider anything cheesy at all.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter – 95% of the people that whine about PU are wvw roamers playing one of the above-mentioned specs.

trooper.2650:

What I wanted to accompish by using torch is having a break, especially when 1vsXYZ, sort of what you do when using PU… same type of fight style which is not possible without abusing on stealth (MI and blink is often not enough)

It sounds like you really want to run torch, so you should give it a shot. If it matches your playstyle, then go for it. For me, while torch makes it easier to escape, it makes it much harder to get over the dps hump of a 1v3 or 1v4.

For an interrupt build, sacrificing the extra interrupt hurts too much. Find the extra survivability in other ways.

My interrupt build is sw/p, GS 10(II)/20(II,X)/30(V,VIII,XI)/10(IV)/0. It is pretty much the same as yours, but with mender’s purity you can forget about the torch and pick up decoy instead of MoR (I run decoy, MoD, blink).

Just keep in mind that with interrupt builds, you want to be aggressive. Interrupting key abilities (like a heal) only buys you 5 seconds before they try them again. In those precious seconds, you need to apply as much pressure as possible. The goal is to get the person down before you run out of interrupts, at which point the build suffers.

The other option is to run generosity sigils and then drop Mender’s Purity in favor of Shattered Concentration or Empowered Illusions. That also gets you the Domination master minor trait, which is nice for interrupt builds. I plan to experiment with this after the sigil cd patch.

To insinuate that Blu is hampering the game’s competitive scene is so incredibly dense it makes my brain bleed. He’s one of the best assets this game’s community has.

On the topic of gvg — of course it’s difficult/pointless to cast. Blu knows that. He’s throwing a bone to the gvg scene, which is actually one of the healthier competitive scenes left in this game (despite how easy it is to poke fun at). It’s absurd to critique someone for trying to cast a game mode that doesn’t even have a spectator mode.

#believegate #wurmgate2014

Congratz to everyone involved in the kill and every attempt leading up to it! Now let’s get this thing on farm!

hihey.1075:

/respect.
You are one of the reasons I still believe in this class and in its users. Fighting against a glass cannon Shatter/Phantasm mesmer always provides me with unmatched adrenaline.

Keep it up

I agree with OP, who I’m confident would agree with me in extending those feelings to include roaming thieves that aren’t running 30 in shadow arts. They are one of the reasons I still believe in the thief class and its users. As a mesmer, fighting against a true glass cannon 10/30/0/0/30 thief always provides me with ummatched adrenaline (compared to the stealth spamming shadow arts builds).

(Hope I didn’t strike any bad nerves with OP, who in a previous post non-sarcastically suggested that last refuge should be “fixed” by proccing shadow refuge instead blinding powder. Rofl)

Divus.3175:

@Cyyrix: here’s Crimson point of view http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4KNWDqb8Tk

It got out of event zone, maybe that was causing the event ui to show wrong amount of hp.

@Arnath.2319: we had few people guesting on Deso during this event. As far as I’m concerned – if you’re on teamspeak, you’re alright. There wasn’t any toxic atmosphere there. Once we were a bit disturbed, because of the overflow system – one of our commander disconected and couldn’t get back to main server.

Interesting. So all 3 definitely get killed. Still curious as to why he gets gold for crimson.

oliverstoned.2695:

http://www.twitch.tv/hide89/b/498123159

Gratz on the first kill, Deso! Well played indeed. A couple of questions about your victory…It looks like Crimson head isn’t killed at the end. Do you only need 2/3 to win? Or was that a UI bug? Also, why does the streamer get a gold medal for the Crimson kill when he was at Cobalt the whole time? Did he get a Cobalt medal, too? Is that standard? Every time I participate in/watch this event, it just feels so buggy.

Howell Qagan.9752:

Adrianna.3092:

wow awsome change… i love it.. now i can use deceptive evasion without it ruining my phantasms!!! wooo!!!

It has never ruined it… clones only destroy clones, phantasms only destroy phantasms if the 3 illusion limit is hit. Sometimes I wonder if people even pay attention while playing.

If you have 3 phantasms out, clone generation skills definitely overwrite the oldest phantasm. I’ll save you from a snarky comment about paying attention while playing

Pyroatheist.9031:

Edit: I will say it does irk me that Jon Peters, the man responsible for a lot of the balance in this game, seems to lack a basic understanding of how Mesmer illusions work, when he falsely corrects another guy that said DE could overwrite phantasms.

Agreed. It really shows a lack of understanding about mesmer mechanics. Roy was right about overwriting phantasms. Furthermore, Peters’ lack of differentiation between clones/phantasms/illusions is quite confusing. In fact the entire overview of the nerf just sounded like gibberish:

“You were either cheesing it, or you were having it disrupt the flow of your gameplay. And it wasn’t really serving a non-cheesing or non-feeling broken moment…and so, if you’re full clones, we’re not gonna create a new one.”

WAT?

The nerf won’t be too big of a deal if they increase the speed of the scepter auto attack chain, which everyone has been suggesting for the last few months. Trading passive clone generation for more active clone generation seems fair. We’ll see.

roamzero.9486:

The fact that PU was outright banned in a recent 2v2 tournament should be reason enough for PU Mesmer to be looked at.

Banning PU in the 2v2 tourney is mind boggling. The team with the PU mesmer didn’t even place in the tournament.

It’s comical that Blu & co. believe PU is the only trait in the game that shouldn’t be allowed. They’ve just come to expect all the other broken stuff because they see it in high level tournament play, while they rarely run across PU b/c of its difficulties in conquest mode. It really isn’t that much stronger than some of the other ridiculous specs out there.

baylock.1703:

immobilize and poison destorys pu mesmer and If you dont have em its ur problem beacose all classes have immobilize and you can get poison from sigils

This is a really valuable comment. The best counter to PU is soft cc and poison….blind, cripple, chill, immob, poison…it works wonders.

I like a lot of OP’s changes. It would be nice to have one solid patch focused on real nerfs and then return to the counter-balancing principle that predominated patches throughout 2013.

Regarding Signet of Spite, 50% duration nerf seems harsh. Instead: 20% duration nerf, increase cast time by 0.25s. Increased cast time = more counterplay = reward skilled opponents = punish less skilled opponents