Pyro, Vash and Blackdevil are just going to run each other in circles trying to argue that a certain roaming build archetype is superior to another (e.g., shatter > phantasm, phantasm > shatter, hybrid > shatter, condi > shatter, etc.).
Here are a few factors roamers encounter that make arguing one build archetype over another completely pointless:
1. ally numbers
2. enemy numbers
3. ally class comp
4. enemy class comp
5. ally pugs
6. enemy group guilded/pugs?
7. fight location
8. availability of terrain
9. availability of escapes
10. map population
11. personal playstyle
12. player skill
13. enemy skill
14. probability of player adds during fight
Different encounters cater to different builds. There is no superior roaming spec.
A nerf is def on the radar for PU. It’s just wishful thinking if you think it isn’t. We can only hope that Anet doesn’t obliterate it.
It was stated by someone else on here, but my recommendation has always been to switch out the aegis for swiftness. It would be a decent nerf (toning down the raw defense) but with a silver lining (offering mesmers more options for swiftness/mobility).
The 10% condition duration allows for +100% duration on the typical 20/20/30 Condi build (20 traits, 40 food, 10 toxic crystal, 20 givers weapons, 10 rune bonus).
The damage gains from hitting that magical 100% duration, combined with the boom duration/ prismatic understanding synergy makes them more than decent with PU condition builds, even if the condi burst isn’t as potent.
I would love to roam with Caed, RIOT tag or not. We just have to convince him to spend more of those tourney gem prizes on transfer fees instead of transforming his toon to look like a distinguished 45 year old gentleman with male pattern baldness.
We run 5-8/night. Any way you could combine your roaming groups and/or pick up some oPP and maybe we can have some 5v5-8v8 roaming action going on in a BL?
For RIOT, our enjoyment of this game’s combat system deteriorates beyond 4-5 per side, notwithstanding our bad habit of clumping up when spawn camping is our only option for fights. Nonetheless, I’m always happy to give you numbers/whereabouts. You can also try asking in our twitch chat (or just stream snipe, your choice).
So…about this awesome roaming guild I keep hearing about from BG – Riot. I haven’t seen them much. At most, I saw one guy running with the pugs. Do they still roam? If yes, around what time and with how many? This is Mag second time facing BG, probably the last for this season so maybe they will come out and play.
Stop giving me blue balls!
We had a couple of different groups running last night. Lately we’ve been in groups of two to four, so if you’re expecting more than that you might be disappointed.
The other thing is that you Mag guys love dueling, but we almost never see small groups roaming apart from that. Any good fights we find almost always result in a party add and a request to start a “FC” at the windmill. It is fun for awhile, but how long can you stand around and counter-comp until it just gets dull.
You should try to make it a point to roam more and duel less this week – with both the BG and SoS roaming squads, it could be a really fun week!
Only other groups of AoN members I’ve encountered since were 6-8 members (+1-2 pugs) all running follow the commander stack-tactics.
We never stack. We’d lose positioning / initiative too quickly if we did that. We may fall back on each other if we’re doing like a 7-10 v 20+ and stringing them out but I wouldn’t call that stacking. Hopefully you did not mean that literally.
Maybe stacking is the wrong term, but for the last three nights the only VR/AoN/DERP groups I saw were balled up, fighting back and forth on south island (see http://imgur.com/a/N8BOh). It’s either that, or dueling. Mag does love its duels.
It would be nice to see more small man roaming groups moving around the maps.
edit: Just watched doc’s highlight…maybe stacking is the right term.
I don’t really consider oPP a roaming guild. There are some good players in it, but most of the guild just sits on the island with as many people as they can and adds on fights.
Not really my battle as I’m not in oPP, but this seemed relevant.
I know we can all never be friends, but it’s important to consider “roaming” from the point of view of both Mag and BG…
When it comes to roaming on the big 3, you’re in constant fear of getting zerged over, or at least dealing with a couple of adds. As such, a lot of t1 roamers run tankier builds that have better sustain and more defensive mechanics. Unfortunately we don’t have the luxury of running as glassy as Mag wishes we did.
If you want to go on and on about how your build from two metas ago is more skillful, that’s fine. We honestly don’t care. Go ahead and cripple yourself in the spirit of your guild’s definition of skill. That’s your prerogative. Just don’t blame us for your losses when you refuse to adapt.
Does anyone know if Superior Sigil of Impact affects illusions? I know Force does not, but since Impact isn’t available for Mists testing, I was hoping I could get the answer here before going down the road of testing on pve mobs.
The thing with SoR is that they do the exact same thing but don’t get called out on it. They paid for the transfer cost of IRON members to come over and nothing was said; but when BG does it then it’s the worst thing that can happen.
Hypocritical much?
Please. SoR Propaganda Manual Volume II Section 3.b clearly states that SoR innocently “donates” gold to its transfers, while every other server holds bidding wars and maliciously “buys” guilds as mercenaries. Two completely different things.
Anything other than vulnerability on scepter auto would be OP, unless there was an rng or on crit component, but no one wants that.
Stealth would be lots of fun, but incredibly overpowered.
Really just increasing the aa projectile velocity (or maybe shaving the cast time a tiny bit) and reducing the precast of confusing images is all the love the scepter needs.
Anyone tried out the new torment sigils with this build? They seem pretty OP from the description. Not sure if they suit this better or blackwater, I would actually guess this one since GS = more likely to proc than slow hitting staff/scepter.
Easier to proc, yes, but generally with hybrid builds you want to stick to things that augment both the power and condition aspects of the build. That is why doiid uses a perception sigil over bloodlust or corruption, and why I recommend battle on the GS. Of course defensive sigils like energy play well, too.
I was wondering if any RIOT team member could tell me if people actually have fun roaming with prismatic builds? I mean you’re basically the equivalent of disgusting facerolling nyx pickers or terran players but there are so many of you so there has to be some merit in it.
That was me. Thanks for giving me another post for the trophy case.
By the way, I sure hope you aren’t that perplexity engi that was running every possible interrupt along with automated response. That would put you at the top of my list as best qq yet.
After watching Doiid stream a bit, I experimented with a close variant of this build (taking IV & V or V & VIII in the chaos line). It’s a lot of fun. Solo is viable, but this build really shines with 3-5 man groups.
If you don’t want to exploit the tonic bug, just go for traveler runes.
Also, I’m never a fan of Superior Sigil of Force given that it doesn’t impact clones/phantasms. A battle sigil on the GS seems like a good alternative.
All in all, hybrid builds usually feel lackluster, but this one works. Learn to play this build now, because builds like this will become more and more potent if we do see condi balancing.
@Pyro:
How did confusion bomb build work before? This build type obviously predates my time in the game.
Did it rely on Cry of Frustration shatter?
It was pretty simple, you just bursted high amounts of confusion using shatters. Before confusion damage was nerfed, people could kill themselves pretty quickly if they weren’t paying attention, but if you didn’t just spam buttons you could wait until the confusion wore off, then kill the mesmer.
Well played confusion shatter specs would space out application and burst at moments of vulnerability. Unless you were fighting a clueless mesmer, it was never as easy as “wait until the confusion wore off, then kill the mesmer”.
Was running 0/20/20/0/30; there are tons of builds and discussions on the forums, but I haven’t seen a single IP.
If you mean a standard confusion bomb build, then that has never really been effective.
You can’t be serious. Maybe not in spvp, but in wvw shatter confusion and glamour confusion specs were so strong that they were hit with some of the hardest nerfs in wvw balance history.
Glamour != confusion bomb.
Confusion bomb shatter builds have always been absolutely abysmal, even before the nerf. They have 0 pressure and can be countered by the complicated method known as /dance.
Flat out wrong. Shatter confusion builds were insanely effective pre-nerf. Maybe you were playing pve?
Was running 0/20/20/0/30; there are tons of builds and discussions on the forums, but I haven’t seen a single IP.
If you mean a standard confusion bomb build, then that has never really been effective.
You can’t be serious. Maybe not in spvp, but in wvw shatter confusion and glamour confusion specs were so strong that they were hit with some of the hardest nerfs in wvw balance history.
I agree that Pyro is often brash with his opinions on the forums, but in this case it’s warranted.
The trait was undoubtedly a bug, there wasn’t a single thing that points otherwise (except that it took this long to fix).
If you designed a build around this bug, you made a poor decision. In all truthfulness, you’ll probably find a more powerful build now that you aren’t using this bug as a crutch.
If I were you, I’d be more worried about the Shadow’s Embrace nerf the dev accidentally showed in the tooltip (condi removal every 10s in stealth instead of 3s).
The fact that the Revealed on “Sic ’Em!” can’t be avoided seems like the developers just ran out of ideas for how to handle stealth/improve the Ranger.
The immobilize for Body Shot is an improvement, though, and I was surprised to see it.
Relax. It’s a 4s revealed on a 40s CD. It’ll only be effective at clutch moments, and if wasted (e.g., as an opener) the long CD will impede the ranger more than the thief.
Haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere yet, but it looks like a major nerf inc. for Shadow’s Embrace (1 condi removed every 10s in stealth instead of every 3s). Will be interesting to see if that’s counter-buffed somehow.
(Dev hovers over the tooltip at 33:47 into the stream)
“Well it’s been a rivalry for the ages, for almost a year the SoR/BG rivalry has been unmatched by any other servers. While there are trolls on both sides which sometimes go out of hand, I have to say majority of SoR have appreciated the fights and the competition from BG. You guys have been a fun opponent and while part of me wishes for the rivalry to go on until the end of days, I think it’s safe to say that new rivalries are on the horizon with the upcoming season. Hopefully each season moving forward has fantastic rivalries that can come close to the one we had. We set the bar as far as server rivalries go, and it’ll be honestly questionable if any can come close moving forward, but only time will tell.
That being said, thank you to all the BG guilds who come out day in and day out to fight regardless of the score. And thank you to all those BG commanders and guild leaders who talk to me on the daily basis with such respect and friendliness but always
maintaining that competition on the field.
And if it happens that the Season 1 rivalry is SoR and BG again, I won’t be disappointed because I know you will bring it. But if it’s not, there’s always season 2 :P.
It has been an honor."
- Indo Xx
If only I had a silver for every time some SoR player droned on about BG’s imminent decline.
Assume someone clears conditions often enough that they never eat more than half the duration. That’s still an effective 20% buff to condition duration JUST from food. It would be similar to giving power builds a food that provided +20% damage.
Wait what? They normally clear a 10s bleed after 5s but when their enemy uses condi duration food they clear them after 7s?
Why would anybody react that way?
Cuz KiTTEN logic ,right ?
No. You’re the one without logic here. Based on your statement, you’re arguing that because of cleansing, koi cakes do not increase the overall duration of applied conditions. In other words, koi cakes are useless. Why then does EVERY condition build run koi cakes instead of +condition dmg food?
What you’re failing to realize is that conditions can be reapplied, and condition cleansing can’t keep up. It’s absolutely atrocious logic if you honestly feel that koi cakes do not increase the overall average ticked duration of conditions applied.
Also, countering with “just use lemongrass” isn’t fair. Veggie pizza or koi cakes make the player more effective in 100% of fights, while lemongrass only makes the player more effective when facing condition-oriented opponents.
No… it gives them far greater flexibility and more options since it’s not like lemongrass has a cooldown. The non-cond player can choose to use it when they need more condition defense, or use other foods for direct damage… or whatever they choose… when not facing them. That’s far stronger than just always running veggie or koi. I’m guessing you haven’t plaid one of the more flexible classes (such as eng) that show just how well flexibility translates into an advantage in a fight.
You’re wrong here. All players can switch foods…it’s not like lemongrass users have some magical food switching advantage over koi cake users. The fact is, defense-oriented foods are weaker than their comparable offensive counterparts.
Suppose you’re in a 1v2 vs a condi class and a power class. What food do you take? If you take lemongrass to counter the overpowered koi cake, you’re effectively fighting without a food against the power class. If you take anything else, you’re victim to the over powered koi cake.
Again, as a condi build, I know we want to justify it, but the food is just too strong in small fights.
I don’t just play cond man. I have multiple classes with multiple sets of gear. I don’t find much advantage on my cond classes to swap from +40% to -40% condition duration. I do find greater advantages to use it against condition classes Vs. other foods on some of my non-cond classes though.
I totally disagree that -40% cond duration is weaker than its +40% counterpart… seeing as they completely counter each other. Plus it’s not like you don’t encounter other conditions from non-condition based builds. Many use things like immobilize, chill, and cripple while in a power build. Those are reduced by 40% as well. That can be huge.
Anyone in a 1v2 with players of equal skill and gear are going to lose. If I’m against 2 noobs it doesn’t matter either, I’m going to win. It’s a non-issue.
1v2, 2v2, 3v3…it doesn’t matter. If you are facing more than one opponent, and at least one of them is condi while another isn’t, the overall effectiveness of lemongrass is decreased. There’s no getting around that.
Yes, in 1v1’s the two foods are perfect counters. In any other situation, koi cake is stronger than lemongrass.
Also, countering with “just use lemongrass” isn’t fair. Veggie pizza or koi cakes make the player more effective in 100% of fights, while lemongrass only makes the player more effective when facing condition-oriented opponents.
No… it gives them far greater flexibility and more options since it’s not like lemongrass has a cooldown. The non-cond player can choose to use it when they need more condition defense, or use other foods for direct damage… or whatever they choose… when not facing them. That’s far stronger than just always running veggie or koi. I’m guessing you haven’t plaid one of the more flexible classes (such as eng) that show just how well flexibility translates into an advantage in a fight.
You’re wrong here. All players can switch foods…it’s not like lemongrass users have some magical food switching advantage over koi cake users. The fact is, defense-oriented foods are weaker than their comparable offensive counterparts.
Suppose you’re in a 1v2 vs a condi class and a power class. What food do you take? If you take lemongrass to counter the overpowered koi cake, you’re effectively fighting without a food against the power class. If you take anything else, you’re victim to the over powered koi cake.
Again, as a condi build, I know we want to justify it, but the food is just too strong in small fights.
As someone who mains a condition build, I agree 100% that this food is over powered in solo or small team action.
Assume someone clears conditions often enough that they never eat more than half the duration. That’s still an effective 20% buff to condition duration JUST from food. It would be similar to giving power builds a food that provided +20% damage.
In large zerg fights (orange swords fights) however, support condi cleanse is plentiful, so in those fights the food isn’t over powered.
Also, countering with “just use lemongrass” isn’t fair. Veggie pizza or koi cakes make the player more effective in 100% of fights, while lemongrass only makes the player more effective when facing condition-oriented opponents.
A bonus for kills in the area isn’t a bad idea at all.
Something like this is definitely on the right track.
As roamers, we love the new map, but the rewards just don’t keep up. The wxp flows like water in the zerg, but you can’t even throw us a bone for taking an orb? The bloodlust points are no more farmable than sentries or supply camps.
Wxp consumables for kills isn’t helpful either. The idea is to close the wxp gap between roamers and zergers, not increase it!
The API needs to return neutral if no one controls the point anymore.
Agreed! The “last capped” team is incredibly insufficient when the points are constantly being neutralized by enemies and/or the decay timer. Give us neutralization info please
When has wvw ever been fair?! From class balance, to food, to outnumbered fights and now to bloodlust buffs, WvW is not, and was never meant to be fair. It’s all about beating the odds. That’s the beauty of the game type.
Stop all the doom and gloom and look on the bright side. As a roamer, you will now get more quality fights in one hour than you used to find over three hours. Not only that, but the terrain to fight on is infinitely more interesting than taking laps around SM.
If you want “fair” go play spvp.
Your other comments made me laugh tho, class balance, yep that’s there, outnumbered (awesome buff, makes you invincible and you get magic find), food – that goes into ones build, which is specific to the player. WvW is open world PvP whether you agree or not. Some groups 1-2, 5-10, 20-40+, nothing wrong with that but the bloodlust stat increase, just bogus….
1) Class Balance: you actually think the spvp balancing suffices in wvw? wow.
2) Food: people have always found certain foods that push builds over the edge. Remember omnomberry ghosts? What about koi cakes? Class balance doesn’t take food into account, which is very apparent in wvw.
3) Outnumbered: I meant outnumbered fights, not the buff
With all of the variables of wvw, you’re almost never in a “fair” fight. The BL buffs really don’t change anything.
When has wvw ever been fair?! From class balance, to food, to outnumbered fights and now to bloodlust buffs, WvW is not, and was never meant to be fair. It’s all about beating the odds. That’s the beauty of the game type.
Stop all the doom and gloom and look on the bright side. As a roamer, you will now get more quality fights in one hour than you used to find over three hours. Not only that, but the terrain to fight on is infinitely more interesting than taking laps around SM.
I think this update is the best update for any roamer (solo or small man) since the dawn of gw2. While I wish there were more hidden passages and whatnot, the terrain is more interesting than anything else in wvw (besides the JP).
LOL. As a roamer you’re going to be >SO< happy to come across an enemy roamer with +150 more points on all stats than you have.
Enjoy.
It won’t happen often anyways, but if anything, I’ll be the player with +150. Not too worried about it.
I think this update is the best update for any roamer (solo or small man) since the dawn of gw2. While I wish there were more hidden passages and whatnot, the terrain is more interesting than anything else in wvw (besides the JP).
My only gripe is that the cannons should be nerfed, or completely removed. They’re absurd. Just like how siege was removed from the jumping puzzle to encourage skirmishing, it has no place near these capture points.
If the cannons aren’t removed, they should at least have a minimum distance on them so I don’t lose half my health, am chilled, and have 5 stacks of bleeding by the time I’ve completed the mini-jump puzzle up to the cannon location.
but… one of the 5 people i took down solo was a Necromancer… i was on 3.8k when he engaged me.
First of all, it wasn’t 1v5…it was 1v1, 1v2, 1v1, 1v1…Still, even if the opponents are on zerg builds (which they were) and are playing poorly (which they were), it’s always impressive to take down that many opponents in one go. I love that you were down to 8 hp on that last fight but made it out alive. A little lucky, but a great vid.
Smokee talking about SOR sitting behind AC’s i loled irl!
I caught a wonderful bit of footage on my livestream acouple hours ago.
I and 4 others were on our way to JQ-BL north camp, we entered and started on the camp and was responded too by about 10 JQ players. We pulled back to the alter of power and i noticed the JQ players set up and build an AC at the base of the stairs for us.
Not even half as funny as watching two TW guards repeatedly open on us and then flee to underwater combat for a solid 10 minutes. This being after three pugs wiped their havoc squad at south camp. Good rezzing btw, but ultimately your fate was unavoidable.
I know the thief. I’ll make sure to tell him about the thread so he can add another “pvp in a pvp zone” qq post to his resume.
Seriously though, if you don’t practice pvp, or you aren’t geared up for wvw, don’t expect to find success on wvw maps. Would you go into Orr with level 60 gear and then complain when you died? Would you go into tpvp without practicing and then complain when you lost?
The awful (and beautiful) truth of wvw is that the fights are almost always unfair. Use that to your advantage and bring some friends. Alternatively, if you’re a true pacifist, just come back when the puzzle is empty.
MassDelusion has it right. Post-patch, I used the same strategy, but with a condi mindset: 100% rampager’s gear, 15(II or III)/30(II,IX,VII)/0/0/25(V,X). Sword/Focus, Sword/Pistol. Feedback, Mantra of Distraction, Signet of Domination. Koi cake food, tuning crystal. Farmed him at 5 gambits, but for fun I even killed him with all 6 gambits using this setup.
A fun tip…if you use the duelist discipline projectile finisher bug combined with perplexity runes, the confusion gets up to 20-25 stacks in about 3 seconds. Add in the bleeding and he melts in 10-15s.
I’ll start. The other day I was roaming and two Riot folks jumped me. It was totally unfair! They should have duelled me 1v1.
Riot is more fun when Boulderbolg gets drunk, flips on a commander tag and leads a zerg. The last time he did it I was shocked to find out he actually knows what a flame rams is and where to drop it. Then again we also zerged the bajeezus out of an Iron Ore node so there’s still room for improvement.
How dare you insult Boulderbolg’s commanding! It was a Gold Ore node!
