Guild Wars 2

From small-group/zerbusting WvW warrior perspective:

Hammer builds will become less popular and be centered around 0/20/20/0/30 (this one much better imo, especially if you slot EP to compensate for losing defy pain) or 0/20/30/0/20 depending on which one you need for your group, balanced or pure survivability. Ironically the straight dmg decrease affects zerker/near zerker hammer builds the most, rather than the PVT crap you see in zerg hammer trains, so higher-skilled players will be feeling the effects, especially during solo/duo roaming. Hammer trains will still likely be run despite the nerfs for sheer stun pressure. One thing to consider is that, by going deeper into arms to get master UF trait, you will be increasing your crit chance in addition to adding a 10% increased crit chance to burst skills. This will allow you to sub out more precision gear for some other stat of your choice, which acts as a bit of a counterbalance to the hit in toughness or crit dmg/burst recharge that you take, depending on your build.

Relative increase in popularity of condi ss+lb dire war will ensue (so boring to play and basically skill-less, spam condis and immob and win), the condi necro nerfs are counteracted by nerf from war’s, their #1 enemy that could stunlock and kill them in fights. War’s will still be able to stunlock but will have much harder time killing them.

Skullcrack telegraph will probably be LOLer readable now, 1/2 second cast time puts it on par with a standard hammer auto (roll eyes). Meanwhile other classes get untelegraphed, ranged instant cast abilities that can hit like a truck (power/hybrid rifle engie anyone)

Axe still blows.

Condi spam rules this game, and that’s apparently the direction Anet wants to continue to shove the meta by hard nerfing one of the builds specifically designed to counter immobile, condi-spamming classes and builds.

Overall hammer will still be able to serve its function of stunning, but may not be able to apply significant pressure against back line enemies to warrant enemy team to actually do anything about it in a small group setting. We’ll have to see how it plays out.

Fast hands locked into the 15 minor trait slot is still preventing us from having any sort of build diversity. Tactics tree still blows chunks. Strength tree still blows chunks.

So, the viable small group builds are now:

1) Nerfed hammer war spec 0/20/20/0/30 or 0/20/30/0/20

2) Condi ss+ LB war

3) Rifle + gs single target burst, 100b + EP on downed clumps.

And that’s literally it.

It’s not a big deal for general war builds, it does compound slightly with hammer nerfs, as hammer dmg was in large part due to crits generated by UF off of ES.

Jaxs.5830:

SkeletalLlama.5381:

Jaxs.5830:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

kerona.3465:

mag #1 most hated server lets b real

Sorry, that would be SoR, by a LONG shot.

Haven’t played SoR in awhile, but I find it hard to picture a server worse then JQ and TC.

Well just imagine an 80 man zerg chasing down one upleveled roamer in the open field far away from any objectives, slaughtering him with spam, then doing /sit on his face having all 80 people spam /laugh in chat then bragging about it on the forums. That’s SoR’s idea of a good fight. And yes this really happens.

I have always believed if I kite a zerg for as long as it would have taken them to respawn and get back, then it is just like wiping them.

If you find emotes offensive, just turn them off. I personally do not.

Your laughing always scrolls up my text box and sometimes I miss important messages. Emotes OP QQ.

Larynx.2453:

Agree 100% with the OP. It addresses the heart of the issue with overcompensating and making hammers and other warrior builds useless.

Moving Unsuspecting Foe forces warriors to go 0/20/30/0/20, which means they don’t have Burst Mastery. That’s a 33% reduced frequency on Earthshaker, and Cleansing Ire. It also doesn’t effect any other warrior builds very much.

Healing Signet is nice and I agree with it, especially since with this suggestion it’ll still be competitive, just not the single available choice. Healing Surge will be a viable option to bring versus heavy burst teams where Healing Signet just pales. Honestly, maybe they could also increase the healing from stage 0-2 heal too.

I might tack on a nerf to zerker stance as well. Perhaps make it 90% or 95% reduced condition duration, so very long duration conditions will still have minor impact, fear can interrupt, immobilize is still a decent CC at least at disorienting the warrior.

@reduce healing signet passive by half
LOL

I would much rather go 0/20/20/0/30 and slot EP than lose burst mastery.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

deathTouch.9706:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

deathTouch.9706

Eliminating WPs would make smaller, decentralized attack and defending groups much more effective in actually controlling objectives around the map. Spreading out distances between objectives would further accomplish this goal, and subsequently have a positive impact on eliminating huge skill/FPS lag that occurs mostly as a result of these huge blob fights.

That is pure speculation.

Zergs abound on all boarder lands regardless of way points. I’ve seen enemy zerg after zerg on our boarder land and they only have their entry way point.

Zerging and blobbing is not a byproduct of waypoints, or lack of rewards for defense.

It’s a deduced conclusion. Take for example an extreme situation where there are no waypoints and the 10 objectives on the map take a minimum of 20 minutes to run to between each other. Do you think an 80 man blob would be able to hold more or less points than 10 eight-man teams?

You’re making an assumption that the 80 man zerg would be willing to break itself up into those smaller squads. I’m postulating that it won’t.

Don’t get me wrong, I would like to see something like that happen. But I just don’t see it happening.

If it didn’t, the 10 eight-man teams would cap the 9 other objectives, conceding the one objective that the zerg captures.

As long as that one objective the zerg captures isn’t worth more than 9 times the value of the objectives the small group holds, the small group server would have more PPT than the large group server.

WPs are just basically a tool used to “condense” objectives together. It doesn’t matter whether you are 5 feet or an entire BL away from the keep you need to get to, as long as there is a WP there the amount of time to get to said keep is equal: instantaneously. This also applies to camps and towers close to the WPed keep.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

deathTouch.9706

Eliminating WPs would make smaller, decentralized attack and defending groups much more effective in actually controlling objectives around the map. Spreading out distances between objectives would further accomplish this goal, and subsequently have a positive impact on eliminating huge skill/FPS lag that occurs mostly as a result of these huge blob fights.

That is pure speculation.

Zergs abound on all boarder lands regardless of way points. I’ve seen enemy zerg after zerg on our boarder land and they only have their entry way point.

Zerging and blobbing is not a byproduct of waypoints, or lack of rewards for defense.

It’s a deduced conclusion. Take for example an extreme situation where there are no waypoints and the 10 objectives on the map take a minimum of 20 minutes to run to between each other. Do you think an 80 man blob would be able to hold more or less points than 10 eight-man teams?

The distance you separate objectives is inversely correlated with the optimal avg. group size needed to hold the maximum possible number of objectives, assuming equal skill between opponents.

Pureglass bearbow ranger.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

With all the lag issues and queue issues, why the heck would time and energy be spent tinkering with way points? I get that different teams can work on different things – so eliminate some from one and bolster the other.

Because the two issues are interdependent. Breaking up zergs and eliminating huge 80v80v80 blob fights also has a positive effect on reducing skill lag.

Queue issues are easily solved by not stacking 3 particular servers.

I’m not sure how people can’t see WPs as a gamebreaking feature right now. As an attacker, it’s impossible to scout, react or try and intercept a zerg that can instantly appear at any time and completely steamroll your attacking party by teleporting into the most secure portion of their keep with absolutely zero risk.

Yes, defending should offer much higher rewards, I don’t think anyone would argue that. But the WP issue itself buys the defenders incredible latitude in waiting till the last possible moment to defend a keep (i.e. even when the attacking group is attacking the lord itself, defenders can teleport on top of them spontaneously with no warning and wipe the attacking group). Not to mention WPs allow you to quickly steamroll nearby towers to the WP keep with practically no warning to the enemy.

Right now defense of keeps aren’t a meaningful fight. It’s mostly a commander continuously asking a single scout how close they are to breaking inner and timing a massive 80 man zerg to spontaneously appear out of thin air to defend it at the last possible moment, and then after wiping said zerg TP out to some other WP to PvD some more.

WPs offer way too much mobility and flexability to huge zergs that would otherwise have to run large distances to inefficiently stop smaller groups from taking objectives. Eliminating WPs would make smaller, decentralized attack and defending groups much more effective in actually controlling objectives around the map. Spreading out distances between objectives would further accomplish this goal, and subsequently have a positive impact on eliminating huge skill/FPS lag that occurs mostly as a result of these huge blob fights.

hobbes.6178:

I just poured a bowl of cereal and found out afterwards I have no milk. Anyone have any suggestions for an alternative?

How full is your bladder at this point in time?

To the BLNT thief: I’d be happy to point you in the direction of some great PTSD-recovery and group therapy resources.

Love,
AoN Hammer Train

Boonprot.6274:

Looking for JQ solo roamers, pls advise. Lol oop, jk, there are none.

Scoreboard PPT Garrisons EBG Keep PPT Outskilled by JQ

Tanbin is one of the best rangers I have played with in this game, and anyone looking for an effective roaming build for ranger would do well to read and consider this post thoroughly.

He’s spent a lot of time tweaking this and testing it in real situations in WvW.

Here’s to hoping Anet can help rangers a bit to make them a bit more useful in small group roaming situations, and buffing builds that focus on expanding the type of spirit build Tanbin has detailed above would be a sound way in which to do this IMO. It would also be nice to see Anet give a bit more group utility to builds outside of spirits so that some more variety can develop for small group roaming rangers.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Good post, thanks for this. Regarding Healing Signet, I’ve noticed recently how wildly useful it is against pesky classes who try to tickle and run forever, and to be honest it has been a breath of fresh air. On the flip side, I’m concerned that this is just my relief at not feeling insanely pressured in attrition fights. Perhaps I should feel more pressured, or it shouldn’t be as effective? Or maybe the people I’ve fought have gotten so used to doing so little and spending so much time running that they just aren’t playing up to snuff and I’m deserving more 1on1 encounter wins against classes like Thieves and Mesmers that I didn’t used to get as easily?

And on the other hand, having to sit and wait around outside of a Zerg because I took myself down to half health is very detrimental. I can really see the pros and cons, and I have a hard time justifying the cries of people who have built evasive condition attrition and used to win against a class that used to have minimal sustain. Though I also wonder if I can still dish out too much pressure based on the 1on1 sustain.

Having felt on the back foot for so long, it’s weird considering the possibility that something is too strong. I’ll be curious to see what changes ANet has in store for the Warrior. That being said, all of this post is true.

Well the thing is, warrior concept was originally a class that “became more powerful as the fight went on”. It was supposed to be the class of attrition. Instead, for many months that role was filled by bunker guards, rangers, eles and the dreaded condi bunker mes.

War had such terrible sustain for such a long time that most war players had to adopt the “full zerker all-or-nothing” mindset to try and burst a target down before they died themselves, as that was the only way to have a chance at winning any type of fight. Furthermore, any warrior player who stuck with the class for the 8 or so months it was relatively weak learned every trick about pretty much everything in the game to be able to win fights because, if you didn’t outplay your opponent, you were guaranteed to lose against almost any other class or build.

When healing sig was buffed, we now once again became a class of attrition, and people who have mastered the class through the period of time the class was weak now seem unstoppable. Was the class overcompensated a bit? Perhaps a tiny bit, but not to the degree that everyone who doesn’t play war would have you believe.

The War now is an all-around threat. It doesn’t have the burst that a pure glass engie has, it doesn’t have the pure survivability that a bunker guard has, it doesn’t have the utility that a mesmer or guard or thief or ele or engie has, but what it does bring is an un-ignorable, high-damage yet durable option to the fight.

And I think that’s why we’re seeing so much frustration with people playing against warriors. Wars are doing enough damage to the point where they cannot be ignored in a fight, yet they are durable enough where hard-focusing them over, say, a glass engie or staff ele usually isn’t a sound decision.

And that’s why I think they’re in a pretty perfect place right. They are fulfilling the role they were intended to fill.

Rigel.3092:

deathTouch.9706:

Mace+shield/GS is seen with reasonable regularity for single-target shutdown.

Even so, axe/shield + GS can shutdown a single-target quite effectively, even now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r4E9N50lTs

Any good player can make almost any build viable in WvW. It’s all about what role you need said build to fill.

Axe/shield + GS seems a bit awkward imo and I’m REALLY not a fan of the autoattack chain or axe 2 but if someone finds that it fills a role nicely then more power to them.

What percentage of JQ players are frothing at the mouth for their finisher reward right now?

Karizee.8076:

Thank goodness ArenaNet has enough sense not to take a forum joke and make an expac around it lol.

Are you absolutely sure about this?

SleepingDragon.1596:

Can Maguuma stop bringing out their 1-3 man crew to fight? I don’t like wasting too much time to complete my dailies and fighting small crews doesn’t cut it. Where’s the huge force that was there during reset???

You know what else helps in completing dailies? Not wiping to the small roaming groups.

Make maps much bigger, spread out objectives to a much greater degree and remove WPs.

There, zerg problem solved.

This is sort of like saying I enjoy playing A/A + LB zerker warrior and then complaining when another class like (insert any class here) can easily beat this build.

Also, 3 stunbreaks + teleports. If you’re dying mostly against warrior, then build against it. Refusal to adapt is not other people’s issue.

Try doing some 5vXs where X is any number greater than or equal to 15 and see how you think shield stance is after that. 1vX where X is greater than or equal to 3 also works.

Better yet, ask your support players how much they appreciate your shield stance.

Iavra.8510:

Stopped reading there. You should probably get better if you think mesmers are underpowered in WvW.

That might have been true once, but apart from condimesmers roaming, we ARE pretty much underpowered right now.

The mesmer class ability gets hardcountered by AoE which is…well, everywhere in WvW. We also get countered by conditions which are the current meta and keep getting buffed.

We are slow as hell unless we are using traveler runes, other speed runes or a focus.

Our direct damage, apart from F1, is really low compared to other classes. At 3.2k attack and 90% critdmg my sword autoattack crits for about 1.2-1.3k. Compared to warrior gs (2k+) and hammer (4k+) that’s REALLY low considering how dangerous it’s for us to go into melee compared to a heavy armor class.

I’m sorry, but no.

You have huge utility (mass invis and veil are essential to any small roaming group, portal for zergs, chaos aura fields, one of the best/the best aura in the game etc) and tons of damage if traited/built appropriately, as well as absurd survivability. Bunker condi mesmers are still the #1 1v1 class in the game and have become even stronger with recent changes to armor/runes etc.

Not to mention they are horrible to try and stomp thus further reducing the desire to hard focus them at the start of WvW fights.

You have survivability just based on the fact that you have so many tools available that makes you a much harder target to focus than say, a necro.

Healing sig better for sustained dmg (1v1 situations).

Healing surge better against burst dmg and when paired with stability to avoid interrupt.

Mending never really useful.

Nerf healing sig passive SLIGHTLY, buff healing sig active MODERATELY, buff mending SIGNIFICANTLY.

Wait to see how it plays out, and modify healing surge accordingly.

teg.1340:

Sifu.6527:

teg.1340:

There are so many warrior QQ threads nowadays with so many false facts. So I think it’s time to clarify some of those:

- Unsuspecting Foe doesnt work with knockbacks or knockdowns, only with stuns. Hammer only got 1 stun which last up to 2s.
Mace?Shield? Please list them all

Never saw a Hammer/Mace+Shield warrior in WvW because this build doesnt have any mobility and is easily kited. So I wrote Hammer, which only got Earthshaker as stun. Mace Skull Crack is also a burst skill, so you have to decide either to use Earthshaker or Skull Crack. There’s barely any synergy between both skills.

Shield Bash is 1s stun. Its barely of any more use than interrupting skills.

Mace+shield/GS is seen with reasonable regularity for single-target shutdown.

ES is, when traited, a 7 sec CD skill that with the appropriate build will crit 100% of the time for an average of about 4.5k HP, depending on power, crit dmg and target’s armor. The follow-up strike will also hit for 4.5k-5.5k HP. Also note that the dmg does not scale with adren level, only the stun duration. So with burst mastery there is no reason why you shouldn’t want to at least try to land an earthshaker every 7s. That is a huge amount of AoE pressure you can put out just with unsuspecting foe and burst mastery.

Shield bash is routinely used in combination with immediate final thrust the instant target has dropped below 50% HP. This combo, providing they don’t stun break it or have stab up, usually wins the fight immediately at that point because, even if the target does not die they are in such a healing debt they are unable to recover.

I think healing sig needs some re-balancing to boost its active use and nerf its passive use slightly and, condi war build is too faceroll in single target situations (thank recent buffs to condi/new runes, dire armor and sigils for this), but in general warrior is in a good place else wise.

However, I just don’t think we should be disingenuous when actually discussing what is strong with wars right now.

One thing that should be noted is that, of all classes in this game, war is most dependent on maintaining melee distance to target and especially vulnerable to kiting. It needs tool to maintain that job like -condi duration traits and immob. breaking (especially with this new and absurd immob. stacking change…duoing with a thief as a condi war we were able to instantly stack over 20s of immob onto a guard and bury it in enough condis he was unable to cleanse) or it will once again be throw into the realm of uselessness.

Also realize I’m partially biased because I exclusively play war, mostly with Hammer + sword/shield. I think wars are on the strong side, with some features possibly being a bit OP, but am hesitant to endorse changes for fear that it will sea-saw balance back to where it was a few months ago.

Or just report the people doing it with evidence attached, since it’s against the ToS from my understanding of it.

Obsidian.1328:

deathTouch.9706:

Obsidian.1328:

I’m not leaving the server I’ve been on since beta, regardless of what tier we are in. I could use the same logic on you guys too:

Get off your desolate, noob server. Change servers.

See how ridiculous that sounds?

Then if you don’t want to move, advocate for your server to stop paying for transfers to come and fill up warm-body spots for 24/7 coverage.

You do realize that SoR’s goal is to have 24/7 queued BLs right?

You do realize that we’ve never paid a guild to transfer here right?

The coverage issue is a product of the scoring system, not of the tier. ANet’s scoring is a 24/7 affair, we can’t change that.

Any other ideas?

If you don’t think certain private deals are being offered by individuals/particular guilds on SoR than you are quite naive.

Boonprot.6274:

If you’re not prioritizing guard stacks over almost everything else, I don’t know what to say to you.

I’d say they’re probably on JQ, where everyone and their mom rushes cannon mastery and sits on them in upgraded towers/keeps/SM for 10 hours a day.

Obsidian.1328:

I’m not leaving the server I’ve been on since beta, regardless of what tier we are in. I could use the same logic on you guys too:

Get off your desolate, noob server. Change servers.

See how ridiculous that sounds?

Then if you don’t want to move, advocate for your server to stop paying for transfers to come and fill up warm-body spots for 24/7 coverage.

You do realize that SoR’s goal is to have 24/7 queued BLs right?

ekleenex.1654:

deathTouch.9706:

ekleenex.1654:

Thanks for the awesome fights Agg – I always look forward to fighting you, but I always get nervous when I see that train coming towards me… Agg front line scariest NA. <3

Usually moving 5-6 pixels to the right or left of where the tonic people are heading allows you to avoid 100% of the damage.

5-6 pixels? Are you running an old etch-a-sketch?

2011 MacBook Pro with 15 inch screen, so you are extremely close

Get off your bloated, bandwagon server.

ekleenex.1654:

Thanks for the awesome fights Agg – I always look forward to fighting you, but I always get nervous when I see that train coming towards me… Agg front line scariest NA. <3

Usually moving 5-6 pixels to the right or left of where the tonic people are heading allows you to avoid 100% of the damage.

Agg and EP combined group hanging their heads in shame after that sorry performance in Mag BL tonight.

Good match JQ and SoS, we just got the better of you this week! Perhaps if you work a bit on your open field play you’ll be able to be more competitive and join Mag in T1 one day.

losieight.4807:

The heal sucks, i doubt anyone will use it.

On another note, has anyone seen the new foods and sigil they came out with to buff condition? It is ridiculous.

And everywhere, condi warriors rejoiced.

Theftwind.8976:

Uh why? This just lends credence to the belief that the people who zerg are mindless and incapable of doing anything but follow a blue dorito around the map.

That’s exactly what they are.

It does NOT heal allies. We tried this immediately after it was released.

It might heal your pet, since that’s part of your character, but it does NOT heal separate players.

Don’t even think about doing this Anet.

Comprissent.3856:

to the JQ in your garrison

are you going to let me try and solo your lord or not

I’ve been in here for 2 hours now

I’ll come and help if you can manage to squeeze my 500 lb. frame through their door.

BRB one sec hotpockets are beeping.

Yep, exact same issue for here on my warrior.

Mouse 4 is burst skill, shift + mouse 4 is swap weapons, I now unintentionally and immediately fire off burst skill after weapon swapping.

It’s really screwing me up right now.

Chris.3290:

Cletus Van Damme.2795:

Kinda boring the last few hours. I’ve been chasing JQ GS+S/W warriors around the map and that’s kinda fun, I didn’t know there was a spider champion north west of the map.

GS+S/W?

Folks, go dual axes for roaming; it’s a lot funner.

That made me cringe a bit.

kartek.6428:

is HzH even an actual wvw guild??? ive only seen a few of their tags in a jq pug train every now and then

I don’t know but one of their officers challenged AoN to an 5v5-8v8 roaming duel today on a BL of their choice.

This is going to be fun.

Robot Chocken.7012:

shagworth.5017:

Or of course they could also accept one of the many GvG proposals that have been laid out and show us scrubs once and for all how good they are.

So if it is not a GvG you run away?

Are you still trying to imply Mag guilds run from free bags?

Reposted to protect the name of the guilty:

This is how the JQ commanders react after you stab stomp them in Mag BL.

Come on Mag, we aren’t karma training hard enough for JQ’s liking! There are too many fights at garrison for them and they can’t get their precious WXP fast enough so they can max out AC/cannon/ballista/siege dmg mastery for all their zerglings! Let’s make sure not to ruin WvW gameplay by deviating from PvD!

Welcome to Mag match-up JQ. We don’t want your kittening WXP we want you face-down on the ground. Seriously, for me, fighting T1 has been the biggest WvW disappointment since release, and not solely from a roaming standpoint.

Robot Chocken.7012:

Hopefully the Anet gods will answer our prayers and the pve AP hunters will take the night off so we can set up open field with Agg and EP. Unlike Mag they will not run from 25 ppl.

You should probably work on being able to handle groups of less than 10 before you challenge yourself with even numbers.

Plaguedispenser.6071:

This is what it means. And I have further screens of him staying down there and attacking people from there, so it’s no accident.

Yeah never heard of that guild, good idea to report in-game and then also send in that screenshot. Maybe reference the in-game report so they can cross-reference with your screenshot.

I’m so confused right now. Going to bed and hopefully these recent posts make sense in the morning.

Issues.5789:

deathTouch.9706:

Oh, and to any T1 server: You’re going to have to offer prominent Mag guilds more than a couple thousand gold to get us to play with the trash that you’ve amassed on your servers for more than a week.

Who are you referring to? No one has offered AoN gold that I know of yet.

I’m talking about any Mag guild, in general.

Oh, and to any T1 server: You’re going to have to offer prominent Mag guilds more than a couple thousand gold to get us to play with the trash that you’ve amassed on your servers for more than a week.

Tough night for Agg’s 15 20 25 30 man skillgroup on JQ BL.

Some more mass recruiting in LA should do the trick.

hobbes.6178:

It’s kind of crazy. It’s almost like all servers have good players and bad players.

10 hours of roaming later and I’m still trying to find a single, good JQ player, let alone guild.

Wanted to give a hearty welcome to JQ PvE guild SG to WvW, if you guys need any tips on roaming feel free to whisper any of the Mag guilds.