Guild Wars 2

Catrenna.4298:

You can argue it hasn’t changed, but you fail to provide details on your results.

Seeing as you’re the one claiming to dispute an already well-established value in light of a dev explicitly stating this value has not changed since release, that’s your job.

Please include your methods and all relevant statistical analysis, including hypotheses, significance level and p value.

Welcome to science.

Yashimata.2986:

So you’re telling me getting a legendary takes a week and a half to get, then? Because that’s what you just said. If that’s true, why isn’t everyone running around with a legendary weapon by now? After all, 10% of a legendary weapon is only a day’s work.

Myself, and I assume a boatload of more casual players, don’t make that much in a day. Hell, it’d probably take me two weeks just to get that much karma together, playing normally.

Legendaries aren’t meant for casual players, at least not within half a year or more time frame.

A dedicated player could accomplish all of what you listed in your suggestion in 2 days, max. 100k karma/day is pretty standard for the legendary grind, 10g can be obtained passively through smart buying/crafting/selling on AH while you grind, 50 dungeon tokens is a single run of any explorable, 30 mystic coins is a joke and can be purchased off TP while grinding karma, 25 of each T6 ingredient is a joke and can be purchased off TP while grinding, and 30 skill points is about 1.5 hours or so from crafting.

That’s why there are plenty of other named exotics that look well and don’t cost as much as legendaries.

Not everyone can afford a Ferrari. That, along with their style and performance, is what makes them special and desirable. The same can be said for legendaries in this game.

Yashimata.2986:

I think 10% of the cost of making a legendary would be sufficient. That’d be ~10g, ~100k karma, 50 dungeon tokens, 25 of each tier 6 ingredient + ectos, ~30 mystic coins and ~30 skill points. It seems like a reasonable amount of work to me.

That would be 1 days work, for something meant to be completed in months/years

I think probability and statistics should be a required course in high school.

Case in point: this thread.

People making conclusions on whether a true mean has changed based on sample sizes of 10 or less.

For those of us who are required to understand statistics for our job (probably including the Anet employees who developed the loot tables), these comments and conclusions are pure comedy gold.

So by all means, keep stating with absolute certainty that mechanics of the game have changed after throwing a bunch of random crap in the forge a few times.

Sounds good as long as the total amount of materials required to make it is worth >300g

It takes 30 SPs to make it, not 150.

I have concluded that my juggernaut hammer is not filled with quicksilver, but rather the tears of all the players who complain about obtaining legendaries.

I love when I spin my hammer around and the tears spray all over and cover me.

1st week: Guilds leave Maguuma for DB after DB beats Maguuma in wvw
2nd week: Guilds leave DB and head to SoS
3rd week: DB, SoS and Maguuma all face each other

Interesting

No gifts are soulbound.

The bloodstone shard is soulbound but the resulting gift you make from it is account bound (Gift of Mastery). This means if you want you can get SPs on an alt, buy the shard, craft the Gift of Mastery on the alt account, then use the Gift of Mastery with the other gifts to make the legendary on whatever main account you want to use it on.

This data collection has:

Good intentions

Currently it is missing:

Methods

Organization

A reason for me to post data considering most people misinterpret statistics, complain about the results, or try to devalue any precursors I make in the process

It has no effect.

Stop whining about precursor prices and figure out a way to make enough money to buy one or craft one like the rest of us did, or re-evaluate your expectations of what you can achieve in the game.

Why would they lock this thread? Don’t read it if you don’t want to see people arguing.

So many people have this philosophy of how everything that happens to them is someone’s else’s fault.

“I don’t have a precursor because it’s Anet’s fault someone was able to make more money than me, legit or otherwise”

“I don’t have a precursor because there’s no set price on them”

“I can’t find an effective way to play my class, so nerf X”

Legendaries are meant for people who can overcome hardship and odds, either through smart money making or extreme perseverance in farming. Extraordinary items are obtained by people who can do extraordinary things. If Anet wants only about 5% of people to have a legendary for X amount of time, then you better be in the 95th percentile of players trying to make one. If instead you’re blaming other people for somehow handcuffing you from doing anything about the situation yourself, then frankly the path to obtain a legendary isn’t for you. It’s a harsh but true reality.

And enough about this exploiting crap. It’s a completely separate issue that has no effect whatsoever on the long-term rarity of legendaries.

I would estimate 75% of my gold that I used to craft my legendary and all exotic gear was from crafting.

The remaining 25% was investments.

So yeah, crafting is useless if you’re not interested in making money.

Try making a point rather than posting two completely unrelated posts.

I’ll try to divine your meaning from your post though and offer a response.

If people want to choose to ignore a devs comment, then why shouldn’t they lose money?

Despite how well I can convince myself that my car will fly if I drive it off a cliff, does it change the actual outcome when I drive my car off the cliff?

Does this make the gas attendant at the gas station liable for supplying me with the gas I used to drive my car off the cliff?

My point in those posts is this: If you want to blindly ignore reality, that’s fine. Don’t blame me or anyone else but yourself in the end.

Who ever said you’re entitled to a 20 slot bag?

Deal with managing a smaller inventory size if you can’t afford the bags. Simple.

azazil.9541:

I see your point from your other posts deathTouch.9706… So basicly you are just after your own profit not for public.

There you go with the entitlement again.

What do I owe you?

Nothing. I owe you nothing. And anet owes you nothing.

In fact, I gave you a huge piece of information saying there is profiteering to be made in crafting, something most people seemed adamantly determined could never be profitable under any circumstance whatsoever.

What have you done for me or the rest of the community that is even remotely useful?

My patience with this Age of Entitlement crowd ended about 3 identical topics ago.

Here is what most people are asking for: “We want really friggin easy legendary weapons.” 16g and 100k karma for a legendary precursor? Hell, why don’t we just make it free if we’re going to devalue it that low.

No.

You don’t get to log on and play however the hell you want and get a legendary within a month. Why? Because then everyone would have a legendary within a month. Everyone who devotes just as much time as you or more, would be running around with a legendary. I would have had mine weeks ago.

If your typical response to a particularly difficult task is “this is too hard, I’m going to complain to someone until the task becomes less difficult”, then you will not, and should not, ever obtain a legendary. If that is how you approach a hard task, then you do not deserve the satisfaction of navigating the task creatively such that you achieve where others have failed. If you want to give up, then fine, but stop trying to project your own shortcomings onto everyone around you.

To people saying this is the endgame: No, this is what you chose the endgame to be. There are plenty of other options for an endgame, such as dungeon running for armor sets, karma farming for armor sets, named exotic weapon crafting, WVWing, tPvP, leveling/gearing alts, or exploring. There was no guarantee in the Terms of Service you would be able to craft a legendary. Just like there is no guarantee if you play any other game you get to achieve what the top players achieve. You don’t get to participate in international tournaments in CS just because you bought the game. You don’t get to join the top raiding guilds in any other MMO just because you bought the game.

You don’t deserve a legendary just because you bought the game. Or because you casually farm the game. Or because you think you do.

The reason why legendaries are so high in demand right now is because they are actually rare and unique (a positive quality that has been lost with many recent games), and the people who are making them put in the time and effort because we expect them to continue to be rare. If they aren’t rare and amazing looking and set me apart from everyone else around me, then why the hell would I have put in so much effort to obtain something that has identical stats to a weapon that would have cost me 1/10000th of the price and effort??

Answer: I wouldn’t have gotten a legendary if I knew they weren’t always going to be rare, something that Arenanet actually did promise us.

So here it is in short: Arenanet promised us extremely rare legendaries. They did not promise that everyone would be able to obtain them, no matter how badly they wanted it. In fact, promising that legendaries would be both extremely rare, yet easily obtainable for most people who casually played this game, would be entirely oxymoronic.

For Anet to make these weapons more easily obtainable in any way than they currently are would be to break that promise for all of us who went through hell and back again to craft these weapons so that we could actually make our character unique.

P.S. For anyone who mentions “luck” in the context of an MMO, where thousands upon thousands of trials are occurring every hour this game is up, you have no clue what you are talking about. RNG is the only way you can effectively manage the creation of these weapons in the long run. If you don’t have any knowledge of statistics, you really have no basis whatsoever to criticize the outcomes of an RNG system.

And stop accusing Linsey of hiding crap from you. The devs in this game have been more forthcoming and helpful about mechanisms in their game than any other dev team I’ve known. The proper response to a dev (or anyone for that matter) giving you free information that you request is “thank you”, not accusing them of supply “half-truths”.

The Age of Entitlement is upon us.

Malediktus.9250: Crafting, easily, if you know which items to craft. I went from 30g to 180g in about 12 hours crafting a bunch of different items when profit margins were high and volume traded was high. I have helped make spreadsheets to track rising and falling prices of mats and products in real time and calculate profit margins and, before that, I simply thought about what items I thought might be most profitable to sell. I took a risk and crafted the world’s first Triforge pendant, and before doing so, invested heavily in the mats before I posted the pendant on the forums. My investment quadrupled in value overnight. I’ve put in the work required to make lots of money, legitimately, in this game, and thus don’t have much sympathy for others who are content to complain about a change in the system, devaluing the work of those who have legitimately obtained their precursors and legendary weapons, rather than put in the work themselves.

Have some of the people in this game who have huge amounts of money exploited to obtain that? Yes, certainly. Are there others who obtained it legitimately as a result of performing services in the economy, satisfying supply/demand, cutting costs of manufacturing to increase profit margins, and invested broadly and intelligently in commodities? Yes, that’s what I did. Exploiters should be dealt with on a case by case basis, but I cannot agree for an across-the-board devaluing (which any recipe will do for these weapons) of precursors.

Here’s a hint to everyone trying to get precursors: Stop throwing exotics into the forge. Your cost/trial compared to average sell price is enormous compared to throwing rares into the forge. If you throw exotics into the forge, you’re literally throwing your money away. Cost of using exotics is about 10x more than rares or more. Your chance of obtaining an exotic might be higher, but not nearly enough to warrant the additional costs. I think it took me approximately 500 combines until I got my first Dawn and, up until that point, I had recovered 90% of my money invested in swords.

Unbugged it again, and temple is now open on Maguuma

Rainshine.5493:

deathTouch

Ultimately this comes down to how badly you want a legendary. If you’re willing to do the 500-1000 combines to get a precursor, then you’ll do it. Other people are willing to do it, or find ways to make money such that they can buy the weapons off TP. Don’t ask to significantly devalue the weapon that other people have worked hard to acquire because you’re not willing to put in the effort yourself.

Please stop pulling up strawman arguments. Luck =/= effort.

Some people are hardwired to enjoy gambling. That’s fine, and the lottery method should exist for those people. However, some people are hardwired to hate gambling, and desire instead steady effort = progress. Not “steady effort maybe never get anything” or “threw 4 things into Mystic Forge on a lark and got precursor on first try.”

Anet themselves know how unfun RNG can be when there is a specific outcome you’re looking for — they set up the dungeon armor system the way they did because of that.

I played AoC for years, did same raid every week looking for the ToS chestpiece. I just wanted the skin, didn’t care about stats. Never saw it even drop, let alone win a roll on it. One week the raid leader asked me to bring my PoM because they really needed one. I obliged, and guess what dropped? Yup, ToS chestpiece. That wasn’t rewarding, or exciting — it was demoralizing as hell. I quit raiding after that, and I don’t ever want to subject myself to that kind of system ever again.

Guess what? If you don’t like gambling, then you can buy it off the TP.

Or is finding creative ways to make money in this game unfair too?

Legendaries require mastery of making money in this game, either through farming, understanding the economy and investing, etc. Don’t expect to do something that 99% of the rest of the population can do easily and expect to get the rarest weapon in the game, explicitly designed such that only 5% of less of the total population will ever be able to obtain.

If you even spent a fraction of the time you invested complaining about the system into developing ways to reduce costs to combine weapons in the MF, or understand how the economy works in the game, you’d probably be done with the whole thing by now.

People suggesting that precursors should be worth 50g haven’t looked hard enough yet at making money. Give me 10g and I’ll give you back 60g by the end of the day. Making a precursor worth 1 day of income is ludicrous.

Bugged on Maguuma again, working on resetting it….

We unbugged it by repeatedly dragging mobs until the pact party ran out of morale. I ensure you it is working again, we almost opened it up about 10 minutes ago but didn’t have quite enough people to finish balth off.

Working on Maguuma. We can usually open it a few times each evening during US primetime.

I say if people want to believe there is DR on the MF despite a topic started by a dev that states definitively that there is no DR on the MF, then let them.

Let them cheat themselves out of opportunities the MF provides. More money the rest of us can earn because of it.

We can insert a new sigil into a legendary item without changing its status as a legendary weapon, correct?

1000 rares aren’t worth 80g. 1000 rares are worth roughly 230g, assuming 23s a rare. Which part is correct?

Also, you chose to spend money on the RNG version of acquiring a legendary precursor. If you would have acquired it from the MF, you would have come out way ahead (assuming you only spent 80g).

You could have also chosen to take that money you had, and turn it into more money, and buy it off the TP, thus guaranteeing your acquisition of the precursor.

You aren’t guaranteed a precursor after 10 tries. You aren’t guaranteed a precursor after 1000 tries, or 1,000,000 tries. However, you do increase your chances of acquiring one as you increase your total number of tries.

The only way to ensure you acquire it is to purchase it off the TP.

This is also why it’s not a good idea to throw all or even most of your money at a gamble. You wouldn’t blow all your yearly salary on lottery tickets, would you? No, you might spend a portion of it on a gamble, but most of it to purchase things you need or invest so as to make more money over time.

Actually a game is real life, especially one that has an economy that is based on supply/demand, where certain goods are rarer than others, and certain demand for goods are higher for some than for others.

The mats that you mention that you can conveniently farm are the cheapest portions of the legendary (such as ori ore), since everyone else can conveniently farm them too. The ones that actually make up the bulk of the legendary (ectos, lodestones etc) are expensive because they are very hard to acquire. So you will be farming either money or materials at some point or another for an extended period of time. The question is whether you think you make the most of your time farming the items itself, or doing something else in the game that makes you more money/time unit that you can then use to buy said mat. It’s called opportunity cost.

Demand for these weapons are enormous. Everyone wants one because they look amazing and are incredibly rare. The only reason they are special is because they are rare. A low RNG system ensures they will continue to be rare.

Ultimately this comes down to how badly you want a legendary. If you’re willing to do the 500-1000 combines to get a precursor, then you’ll do it. Other people are willing to do it, or find ways to make money such that they can buy the weapons off TP. Don’t ask to significantly devalue the weapon that other people have worked hard to acquire because you’re not willing to put in the effort yourself.

GoddessHrist.8472:

deathTouch.9706:

Just out of curiosity, you guys do know that in addition to the precursor, you need over 400g worth of mats to make it right? So even the most expensive precursors still only represent 1/3rd of the total cost of crafting the weapon, not including karma, wvw tokens, dungeon tokens, or map completion.

If you’re complaining about obtaining the 200g portion of it, why aren’t you complaining about the 400g of additional mats that you need? Likewise, if you think a 200g component of the weapon is hopelessly hard to obtain, how the heck are you going to obtain 400g?

Dusk is currently going for 275g, so that’s actually 40% of the total cost. That also assumes the price doesn’t increase between now and whenever a player manages to farm that gold.

More importantly, those figures only hold for players who simply buy everything needed for the Legendary. I plan to farm almost all those components myself (excluding some of the really tough ones). So my gold cost for the Legendary itself will be much much lower.

1) You quoted the sell price, not the buy price. The sword at 275g has been up for more than a day at this point, the ones in 300g have been up for multiple days. You need to look at where the transactions are actually occurring, which is at 207g. Trends also indicate a new price plateau for dusk.

Also, no one said you had to go for Dusk. Sometimes compromise is necessary in life.

2) One of the most bizarre things I hear is people claiming that their cost of producing an item is reduced because they farm their own mats. Your mats have a value, as well as your time. When you say you’re “farming” your own mats, and that it will be “free”, what you are basically saying is I’m doing a service that pays me X amount of gold worth of materials per unit of time.

Whether you farm each individual mat you need for the weapon, or farm a completely unrelated mat to the weapon, sell that mat, and buy the mats you do need, or whether you make money trading commodities on the TP, has absolutely zero impact on the total cost of producing a legendary.

Just out of curiosity, you guys do know that in addition to the precursor, you need over 400g worth of mats to make it right? So even the most expensive precursors still only represent 1/3rd of the total cost of crafting the weapon, not including karma, wvw tokens, dungeon tokens, or map completion.

If you’re complaining about obtaining the 200g portion of it, why aren’t you complaining about the 400g of additional mats that you need? Likewise, if you think a 200g component of the weapon is hopelessly hard to obtain, how the heck are you going to obtain 400g?

Archer.6485:

DeathTouch, I’m perfectly fine with paying the fair price of 200 gold, even though the people who got them early would pay as little as 60 gold.

What’s so unfair about wanting the price to remain stable? Why should I be punished with 10 times higher prices just because I’m taking my time.

I want the legendary to be my endgame, something I accomplish after long long months of persistent play. I just want that goal to be set so I can see myself progress towards it instead of watching the end getting farther and farther away.

I’ll always defend having to work hard for your accomplishment but I won’t defend exclusivity for the tiniest amounts of people at the top.

Edit: I just checked the TP and Dusk is now going for 299 gold. Will it be 400 tomorrow? So where’s that fair price of 200 gold we were talking about? This is exactly what I’m talking about. The price just rose by another 100 gold, apparently at the whim of a single person.

Price is increasing because demand is increasing at a faster rate than supply. Demand will eventually cap and, assuming inflation is under reasonable control, price will eventually stabilize.

Realize precursors sold earlier for 150g or less because:

1) People hadn’t yet acquired more than 150g and;

2) Demand rose sharply after the initial weapons were finished and everyone saw how awesome they are.

This is basically a simulation of what happens in real life with regards to perfect diamonds of sizable quality. It’s known there is an extremely limited production of these diamonds from mines. A combination of extremely limited supply coincides with extremely high demand and shoots the price higher than 99% of the population can afford.

I still see absolutely no reason why there should be more ways to get legendary precursors.

It offers no additional stats whatsoever over weapons that are craftable for 2-3g, so progression or wvw usefulness is a non-issue.

It is the rarest weapon in the game, meant to be legendary.

You want to talk about “fair”? How about what’s fair to people who managed to work for 200g and purchase it off the TP, and then Anet releases a new method to easily craft them, thus plummeting the value of the item.

Again, find a way to effectively make money to buy the precursor you want. Or find a way to craft it. Or hope you get luckl. Or settle for a less-expensive precursor. Or settle for a pearl weapon.

Legendaries aren’t about equality. It’s about either hoping you get lucky, or being smart enough + work hard enough to obtain sufficient money so that you don’t have to be lucky.

I know it’s harsh, but honestly it’s the only sensible approach to a weapon with a “legendary” tag. Right now legendaries are priceless considering their extreme rarity, and that’s the way it should stay.

This is what entitlement looks like.

Not everyone is entitled to a precursor. Not everyone is entitled to a legendary.

I made all of my money through legitimate means in game. Heck, 90% of it came from crafting items I’ve sold to other players. I was able to afford multiple precursors, the mats to make the legendary, money to discover recipes in the mystic forge (including the first triforge ammy), and still have 100k left over.

If you want a weapon that 90% of the rest of the playerbase wants too, but only a few drop per day, you better start figuring out ways to obtain more resources than 99% of the other people who play the game so you can outbid them. Much of what makes the legendaries so special is how few of them will be made, and how incredibly difficult they are to obtain.

There are many ways to make lots of money in this game without exploiting. How bad do you want one? Complaining will not help you to achieve it.

This entire event chain was a blast. Did it from beginning to end last weekend after server restart with a group of about 25 others and it was real fun coordinating three of us on north, central and south during the first half of it.

I think many of you need to stop and step back for a moment to realize what just happened.

A game designer just laid out the intent of the system, the issues the system might have, and a promise to improve the system in a reasonable time frame.

I know gamers in general are a bit of an “instant gratification” crowd and want answers immediately, but also realize that in real life it takes time to acquire data, analyze existing programs, and develop a course of action to alleviate problems with the program.

We acquired the single most important piece of information from this Anet post: The system is NOT intended to punish farmers, but is intended to prevent exploitation. As a result, this is simply an issue of a program that is flagging too many false-positive cases, and I’m confident can be fixed in the future relatively simply such that it is no longer an issue.

Also realize that the time frame that he gave was probably quite liberal considering this is an issue that is discussed and administered by a group of individuals, and underestimating the time to fix this problem would only anger the consumers further.

Things I would recommend:

1) Using rare swords instead of exotics to attempt to obtain a precursor.

2) Not expecting to get a precursor

Over about 500 combine attempts of rare swords (that’s about 2000 swords in the forge), I’ve obtained a single Dawn. So from the generation of roughly 100 exotic swords (assuming 20% chance to obtain an exotic), I’ve obtained exactly 1 precursor.

I honestly don’t think there is a conspiracy behind the selling of these precursors. They are really that rare. The demand for precursor items is astronomically high compared to the supply, resulting in the extremely high prices that we see, especially for Dusk.

I’m a solo player, I’m nearing completion of my legendary, and I thought the dungeon running was actually one of the easier and more enjoyable portions of this process. Find a group of people who are doing the dungeon either for their legendary, or an armor set, and make a new group of friends. That’s what I did and I actually found this part enjoyable.

The karma grind on the other hand…

Market working as intended.

Originally, there was a shortage of blood used to produce zerker’s items, a highly-demanded item. Blood thus increased in price. This lead to additional people farming blood, which increased supply, eventually meeting demand and lowering the price.

Lack of any official statement concerning these changes is the most frustrating thing.

Someone from Anet has to explain exactly what this system is, and why it is in place. Right now no one has any idea if it’s meant for botters and working inappropriately, or if it’s meant for legitimate player trying to farm karma as fast as possible. Most people are assuming the latter at this point.

On the same lines as this, can we change the sigil in the weapon and still have it be classified as a legendary item?

LOL Synk, I was thinking the same exact thing when I read this. Doesn’t seem as convincing when Logan’s name came after it…

If you combine each of the different pendants + 50 crystals in the mystic forge, you get this:

Possibly cost me world’s first juggernaut by spending the SP needed to make this, but it’s still awesome. Loved the Zelda reference.

Much credit to Edge from gw2guru.com for mentioning that pendants may have the possibility to be combined into a greater item.

Could have been worse.

You could have been operating heavy machinery at 2AM and crushed yourself.

That’s all I can think of being worse than what you did right now, sorry…

I’ve made roughly 260g from crafting over the past 4 days.

Profits are there. You just have to find them, and creative ways to cut costs.

Here is a list that you might find helpful. Was posted by someone who kept track of the results from each of his 1x clover attempts

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AiRn91qaiRaydEsyZXBRenRiMUJ1b0dmWkIxczlSN1E&output=html

They’re called legendary for a reason. I think AN actually wanted to make them extremely rare, and they have successfully done so.

Making a legendary is like obtaining an incredibly expensive car IRL. There is going to be a premium on something that is in enormous demand but in extremely short supply. How many legendary precursors are on sale at any given point? 2? 3? There are thousands upon thousands of players who would like to have one if they could, and yet only 2-3 on sale…

Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/This-needs-to-be-addressed-Mystic-forge-and-Legendary-Pre-cursors/first#post225376

To sum it up:

Question posed:

1. Can we still attain the pre-cursors from lvl 75-80 rare weapons in mystic forge.
2. Can we still attain the pre-cursors from lvl 75-80 exotic weapons in the mystic forge.

LinseyMurdock’s answer:

I believe the issue was with rares of a lower level. So, the answers to 1. and 2. are yes.

Exactly, it was sub-lvl75 rares that were the issue. Not the 75-80 ones.

I’ll take them!

I know and have talked to people who have acquired legendary precursors with 4 lvl 80 rare swords after the 65+ rare issues was taken care of.

There is also a thread around here with a AN representative who said that it is still possible to get legendary precursors by combining lvl 80 rares.