Guild Wars 2

You can’t use PU for a poper bunker role. You lose the point as you’re invisible.

We lose the point during blurred frenzy

Staff 2 often ports us off the point.

It is my humble opinion that a PU mesmer best serves his team as a boon-spreader and/or resource absorber. If PU is what you want to do you need to be able to win a fight 1v1 in a respectable amount of time. This way you maintain a high uptime of 2+ persons working on you and you alone while your squad secures the other points. This probably locks the PU mesmer into either a phantasm role (more survivability) or bleed role.

I have recently tried maxing out chaos armors using s/f and staff, shamans, and glamours and I was not able to survive enough.

I have done ok witb clerics, s/t and s/f, 20-0-20-30, defender/disenchanter/sig of ill and it did ok. Perhaps with tweaking it can be improved upon.

Its can be difficult as we are an active profession and its a tiny little point.

A ‘condition’ weapon kills variety. All weapons need to fulfill at least a couple roles

After making that scepter clone comment I’ll be curious to see if there is anything noticeable with sig of illusions and sword clones. I’ll give that a shot for a few tonight.

It ‘has’ to be a bounce because that is the thematic method which we do aoe. I’m not saying it my personal favorite, but if you want to inflict real change then we should try to operate within their paradigms

Chaos Archangel.5071:

djtool.8372:

His attack is going to bounce, and should so it can benefit from the trait so that’s not going to change. The trait for the torch is in power, so that’s probable not going to change and should be respected.

The only amulet that maximizes the ability is carrion. So tuning the power toward carrion should be avoided in order to promote more use (I.e. viability).

Confusion is fine as a condition, its thematic and should not change. If you feel the confusion condition is not useful that’s a global concern, not a torch one.

Right now I think the best change options are: keep tweaking the condition/boon duration -or- remove retaliation and add weakness.

Its too bad it probably has to be a bounce attack. If bounce attacks hit clones, we have to figure ou what boon or effect we’d like on our clones.

Retaliation on clones would be ok with signet of illusions. Its too bad that scepter clones suck.

Its highly probable that the ‘problems’ with torch5 have little to do with torch5

I like the idea of adding weakness, but why does it have to be a bounce? Just so it can work with the trait?

His attack is going to bounce, and should so it can benefit from the trait so that’s not going to change. The trait for the torch is in power, so that’s probable not going to change and should be respected.

The only amulet that maximizes the ability is carrion. So tuning the power toward carrion should be avoided in order to promote more use (I.e. viability).

Confusion is fine as a condition, its thematic and should not change. If you feel the confusion condition is not useful that’s a global concern, not a torch one.

Right now I think the best change options are: keep tweaking the condition/boon duration -or- remove retaliation and add weakness.

Its too bad it probably has to be a bounce attack. If bounce attacks hit clones, we have to figure ou what boon or effect we’d like on our clones.

Retaliation on clones would be ok with signet of illusions. Its too bad that scepter clones suck.

Its highly probable that the ‘problems’ with torch5 have little to do with torch5

Then perhaps it is wvw. I cant imagine the phrase “full zerker” being used to describe just taking the amulet.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

djtool.8372:

Jackums.3496:

If you’re running a phantasm build, the GS is hands-down the single best dueling weapon, matched only by the pistol. Since Berserker was fixed, it hits like a truck (7.8k in PvP), and its cripple is extremely useful for slowing your opponent, whether they’re fleeing or trying to close the distance between you. That and its multiple hits, just like Duelist’s, benefit from Sharper Images. Then you have the range on the GS, which allows you to summon your phantasms, then sit back at a distance and shave away at your enemy’s health with a pretty hard-hitting auto-attack. Finally, you have the great CC in iWave.

I would like to find one of these 7.8k critting GS’s. Maybe you’re speaking of WvW

Also want to find opponents with no range or gap closers, that sounds sweet.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I disagree with this one. Best “dueling” weapon setup for phantasms is likely sword or pistol in the off-hand, although it mostly just comes down to the player.

I have seen full Zerker GS users hitting for ALOT. I have seen them hitting for 6k+ so it all depends on the opponent build. I have even seen iZerker hit for 9k! on an ele

Ruine.3519:

Staff on the other hand is a must if you want to fight 1vX against semi competent enemies.

I believe the amulet plays a larger role. The torch’s invis power will save your kitten more than the staff’s chaos armor and ’port. trying using focus and torch in your off-hands with soldiers amulet or clerics.

Jackums.3496:

If you’re running a phantasm build, the GS is hands-down the single best dueling weapon, matched only by the pistol. Since Berserker was fixed, it hits like a truck (7.8k in PvP), and its cripple is extremely useful for slowing your opponent, whether they’re fleeing or trying to close the distance between you. That and its multiple hits, just like Duelist’s, benefit from Sharper Images. Then you have the range on the GS, which allows you to summon your phantasms, then sit back at a distance and shave away at your enemy’s health with a pretty hard-hitting auto-attack. Finally, you have the great CC in iWave.

I would like to find one of these 7.8k critting GS’s. Maybe you’re speaking of WvW

Also want to find opponents with no range or gap closers, that sounds sweet.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I disagree with this one. Best “dueling” weapon setup for phantasms is likely sword or pistol in the off-hand, although it mostly just comes down to the player.

staff mesmers are hard to beat if you have low hp and are lousy at cleansing conditions

GS mesmers are weak and easy to kill when they’re packing a beserkers, even knights sometimes.

I just love OP for being a mesmer who didn’t say he “hardly ever loses 1v1” (not being sarcastic). Post your build OP then we can break it down for ya. Also let us know if you want to shatter or hold on to your phantasms.

colesy.8490:

.

@djtool – why ranger runes when your main source of damage, the phantasms will have fury anyway? If you go full ruby orbs and phantasmal fury you end up with like 76% crit chance on your phantasms (havent logged in for a while, can’t remember the crit chance for full zerk) and 2% more crit damage than 5 ranger 1 divinity (and divinity is awful anyway).

I’m not sure why you’d go 30-30-0-0-10 either, if you want strong phantasms you’re missing out on giving them more HP, 15% more damage, retaliation and reflects from your focus skills (which reeeeallly shouldn’t be underestimated).

we’re talking max damage. if you want to crit you max your damage by increasing your crit chance and crit multiplier, so that’s why ranger runes and one divinity. I don’t WvW, i presume that’s what that ruby orb business is about.

you also max your damage by being able to apply it outside your phantasms.

I do not believe a %15 damage increase on your phantasm’s outweighs the extra crit multiplier or increase in power.

you give phantasm’s more hp with the signet. the %20 from the inspiration line is a nice extra thing if you’re already in the inspiration line but is not a sizable difference maker.

finally you don’t max your damage by taking the warden

I think confusion is the poster-boy for having different rules in different modes of gameplay.

Making a case for an alteration to confusion (at least in s+tpvp) is made difficult without an accurate method of tracking its damage. There is little else a player can do outside of the esoteric approach when judging it.

what I am hoping is that someone of import attempts the skill chain I’ve laid out multiple times in a hot-join and tournament environment and takes some time to give the results an honest evaluation.

I just want to point out that you don’t put 25 points in the illusions line to “maximize damage”. that’s for increasing your phantasm uptime. some believe that is increasing damage due to having 3 at one time more often, in practical application I have not found this to be true. if you’re running phantasm take a signet of illusion to keep them around, although many times you don’t even need that. depends on your role.

maximizing damage is simply maxing power and crit. I can’t tell you whether or not the bonus from inspirations 25 minor trait is better than putting those points into more power, or whether or not stealing 10 to give you the +%3 per illusion in the illusion-trait line at the loss of power or crit damage/chance is better. They all hit hard and its for numbers-geeks to figure that out.

whether or not over the long-haul a Mesmer’s damage is sub-par I cannot tell you. The only thing I know is that we likely have the greatest AoE burst in the game every 90 seconds. Whether or not that spec is tourney viable though I can’t say for sure, though I lean ‘probably not’.

I would say try 20-25-0-25-0 and then try 30-30-0-0-10 and see which one did more damage vs. keeping you and/or your phantasms around longer. tweak from there.

use 5 eagle or rangers runes and one divinity. Some like scholar but if you’re living by the crit, then feed the crit.

Hello,

its been stated more than once by the devs they like constructive information. I’m the esoteric type, not empirical, so this is my way of attempting to garner at least some consideration.

The strength of confusion is of particular concern to a Mesmer. While not an avid pve or wvw player it seems to me that confusion requires a different metric for each type of gameplay.

This is regarding s or tpvp.

Please take into account the series of actions and apply them to the subsequent questions. Assume a condition damage-focused amulet is being used. I invite people to do this for themselves, and relay their experiences in this thread.

I am not saying this should be a viable spec or that it needs a boost. I am simply asking what results should the following extreme course of events provide in the opinion of the players and the devs (should they be kind enough to read, try, and comment).

You may or may not presume that we have the grandmaster illusions trait that gives us a 4th shatter.

create 3 clones -> cry of frustration -> create 3 clones -> mindwrack -> activate signet of illusions -> create 3 clones -> cry of frustration -> create 3 clones (admittedly a larger space of time to do at this point) -> mind wrack

question #1 – should this create a devastating effect if your targets receive and retain that amount of confusion and continue committing actions?

question #1a – should a cry of frustration executed by a condition damage focused Mesmer be roughly equal to the damage of a mindwrack from a power/crit mesmer? Power only?

question #1b – if no to 1A and we changed it to a CoF+MR; should that be roughly equal?

question #2 – after utilizing this series of actions do you feel that you are making an impact that correlates to the amount of resources and actions being committed?

question #3 – taking into account either all meta environments since inception or no meta-driven environment, what are you thoughts on the likelihood of a confusion stack being cleansed vs. a mindwrack being blocked, dodged, etc.

question #4 – after experiencing this method of mesmer’ing did you have fun? do you think this type of Mesmer gameplay should be encouraged?

The “best” way to execute these actions is to:

1. use sigils of energy
2. take trait ‘X’ in the dueling line and trait ‘III’ in the inspiration line

“best” trait distributions:

10-20-0-10-30
20-20-0-10-20

“best” utilities:

decoy – mirror images – signet of illusions

I did not have the same experience. I find illusion generation to be just fine.

In addition to the team cleanse you have a very accessible means of cleansing a fear or torment off of you should the need arise. This probably works with immob too but have not had an opportunity to verify.

Indeed. Not impressed.

I’ve been messing around with different builds/ideas and I’m not seeing retaliation on my phantasms when I select the 5 point minor trait in inspiration. I spammed 3 on the test professions in the mists and did not notice damage occurring to the test dolls when they damaged the phantasms.

Is this old news or am I mistaken?

thx

If you’re feeling really slick you can cast warden then drop the curtain on it for aoe cond removal. Takes practice to be good at it though.

The curtain is all around nice. The more swiftness a group has the better your response time is so stacking sources of group swiftness is a big deal.

The wardens usefulness is meta-dependant. Outside of that you can use him to take shots for you or stand on him to force melee users into his range. Typically providing retaliation damage, some dd, and procing protection/regen for yourself.

If you want to use the warden for damage the best method is sword3 followed by warden followed by port. If you take “stun on daze” and the dazing mantra that makes it a bit more reliable.

The opportunity that is all but lost with mesmer is having a playstyle that encourages standing still, acting like ai, and generally playing it cool during pvp. The highpoint towards this is a gs bleed build but since mesmers can be targeted outside of his clones its not quite there.

I would like to see skills that encourage this type of gameplay. Success in pvp has always incorporated movement and here is a wonderful opportunity to truly create a different method of play as it rails against years of pvp experience.

In short adapting to a different playstyle with your fingers as well as your mind.

Most likely condition duration, aoe(ish) image damage, and image retaliation buff.

A pvp build to do what?

Hector.6950:

Just want to let you guys know, I’m relloling to necro.
Time to own you all!

I believe it was Benjamin franklin who once said: " Awwwwwww snap!!!"

5k sounds like a lot. Don’t care if you did or didn’t, but it does sound pretty high.

Hs vs. %20 mind wrack damage is valid argument I don’t know why thats a debate. It just depends on the variables. Trait distribution, amount of interrupts on hand, certainly a phantasm spec, and I’d also imagine a highly skilled opponent finds it more difficult (if they even pick up on it) to recognize and dodge the interrupt skill animations over clones sprinting at them.

The guy’s excited about it. Who gives a kitten let him be happy and move on. At least he didn’t come here with some build or idea we’ve known about since december and act like he was the scientist who first discovered It.

Whether or not a build is good 1v1 is moot in this game. Yes a gs bleed build will win 1v1 quite often. Such can be said about many mesmer builds. The majority of the time you will not create enough bleed pressure to be a real factor in a spvp environment (tpvp especially). Unlike other bleed builds yours do not come from you, it comes from entities that’s break under aoe.

And if you stand off alone you’re glass-spec bait.

Unless there are traits in the inspiration line that you require for your build you will be better off plugging points into power than chasing that % 15 damage increase in the inspiration line as far as phantasm damage is concerned.

Same goes for that same % 15 vs. More crit damage unless you are using a non-crit amulet.

mindwrack is only counterproductive if you are not using carrion, perhaps also rampagers.

wouldn’t it be better to shatter 3 clones for CoF then reproduce 3 more? or shatter 3 clones to put up (X) more and a phantasm or two? I’d rather have 6-8 stacks of confusion running while I bring up 2 more staff clones and maybe even a duelist.

I disagree there’s anything wrong with CoF. if there is something “wrong” it’s with confusion in general.

Its a trait you take to compliment you goal. Not something to base a build on. All interrupt traits fall into this category.

For this purpose its a very solid trait if big crits is your thing.

I wish he was targetable. Kind of stinks to spawn a defensive phantasm off in the distance for someone to just run around.

Best universal method of tagging someone with it is to start with sword 3, cast warden, then port. More reliable if you take the stun on daze trait and take the distraction mantra.

3 points:

This just in: some people like mantras and some don’t.

I didn’t watch the video but thanks for sharing. I appreciate the time and effort you put into it.

Why people seek validation for something that doesn’t pay you money or gets you laid I’ll never understand. The act of proclaiming you don’t care about other peoples opinions while presenting an item for people to have an opinion on is….well it puts people off. If you truly did not care you would not have spent so many bytes attempting to illustrate your own superior thought process and approach. In the future I suggest maximizing the effort you put forth when making a video displaying a mantra build thusly:

(Link to mantra build video)

Hi mesmers! I really enjoy playing a mantra build. I feel I’m pretty good at it but certainly could use some improvement. The video above is myself playing. If you’d like any tips or have one for me I’d love to discuss it.

Thanks

xXThRaXx

…my opinion

I’m currently experimenting with 25-0-30-15-0 to see if it goes anywhere. sword/something and sword/something-else or GS.

illusionary defender, illusionary disenchanter and signet of illusions.

give it a shot and maybe after a few tweaks you’ll have something you’re looking for.

addendum to the build I posted:

I think 10-25-30-5-0 may be superior. Also I am giving runes of the adventurer another go as a poor-mans substitute for the loss of IC. it also emphasizes the builds use during pvp which is creating uneven resource distribution

Just throwing that out

yeah I was just teasing.

phtotrope.3761:

djtool.8372:

yeah but if you rely on your GS clones for damage it’s no longer a phantasm build so your question of ’zerker vs. rampager for a phantasm build is moot.

AAAHHH sorry!

No real reason to be sorry. It’s true. If you’re going to have clones out most of the time, Rampager’s or Rabid will be your best bet because the most damage they can do is from conditions.

30-30-0-0-10 is a pretty standard zerker build so you’re there as far as point distribution.

yeah but if you rely on your GS clones for damage it’s no longer a phantasm build so your question of ’zerker vs. rampager for a phantasm build is moot.

AAAHHH sorry!

I think there’s a chance I can muster the energy to do a couple of what I consider fun builds that have appeal to me. I think video’s would be required however to illustrate play.

The placement infers that we need to rapidly generate clones to get our bleed stacks up fast, which is true.

Despite peoples feeling toward the condition we are bound to confusion in order to use shattering as a method of creating condition damage, and due to its duration you need to spam clones as much as possible. So where is the value in that for shattering in shamans or carrion?

What about a power spec that wants to shatter often to boon strip?

If you need your clones to perform their attack functions then you either need signet of illusions or DE. Is that enough choice?

I don’t have an answer or even am convinced its a big issue. I do however believe DE has been the single largest item hampering build diversity.

I’ll hang with y’all a bit if you’ll have me, see if we get along. feel free to friend me in game if you like.

I can play 8pm-12 central time most days

if 8pm – 12 central are ok hours feel free to give me a holler in game. I wouldn’t mind trying more organized tpvp.

rank 41 if that really means anything.

I finally got around to giving PU a test run today but for only less than an hour. I’m curious if you’re pre-loading your buffs (spamming your invis’s before engagements). I gave it a shot but couldn’t play long enough before leaving for the weekend to evaluate.

My personal favorite is that is found in the trait line that has no shatter support. Power, inspiration, or illusions seems logical, but no….its in the precision/crit damage line.

Do you only want “top tier” builds or can fun ones be submitted?

Mesmer: techniques and trickery or the technique of trickery

Playing a gs/staff bleed build with veil and decoy can be a lot of fun (as the invis drops your target). It plays how I had imagined mesmer would be. I wish it worked better in tournies.

Only spec I know that forces you to retrain your brain as standing still is what’s needed. Saving phase retreat or a blink right as their arms go up. Sometimes (if you play really cool-headed) its ok to just stand there and absorb a couple attacks if you recognize that they aren’t too nasty, once in a while they’ll peel off of you and thats a cool feeling.

So if you struggle to land scep 3 why not save your shatters to use after they’ve expended their dodges. Or use it after their dodges. I guess I just disagree with torch being tied to scepter. In a vacuum i’d rather use pistol.

Considering the op’s loadout and intentions i would think you need that torch explosion to land its burning damage I prefer closing in with torch, sword3 into 2 myself. Sounds like a solid way to open the fight as you’ll last long enough to get to use torch 4 again.

If he keeps his loadout he has a scepter and he has a torch, why do they need to be grouped together?

The mantra burst build does insane damage but wouldn’t work unless you had people to support you.

After the patch I tried a tank build because it would be nice to do that without having to go invis or port off of the point too much. I didn’t fair well but that doesn’t mean someone wouldn’t. I didn’t have the sense I was playing it near enough to perfect but I project improvement in my gameplay wouldn’t put it over the top.

Pyro makes a good point with his spice analogy. I think the cond-removal and stability are a good value at two uses. The daze one I find build-specific. Pain I would hardly ever consider.

Hybrid by definition is carrion or rampager amulet with a significant investment in power.

If you want to use sword and scepter your best bet is likely carrion amulet, shattering like a s.o.b.

Try 10-20-0-0-10 (30), sigils of energy, 2 lyssa, and 4 nightmare a base and decide for yourself whether or not you like it. I tried 30-20-10-0-10 and found it ok.

No to first question.

Spam forth and worry not.

Why is it bandwagon that many people are play their warriors and necros now , or that more people are try them? Necros got a boost and there is a group of people hungering for warriors to become ‘viable’ by their perception.

If all someone cares about is how effective a profession is in pvp then the only logical lament to a ‘nerf’ is working on a new build or build+profession. If you don’t want to switch due the ‘nerf’ then do your due diligence and find the most effective build you can.

Presenting facts and empirical data is what gets the ears of those who make the game. Screaming like a child only serves to have oneself ignored.

I’m sure we all appreciate the passion the OP has for mesmer. I submit that that passion could be redirected in a more constructive manner so that the OP’s desired change is realized.

Otherwise perhaps just do your best, however that turns out, and focus on something else like enjoying yourself.

I have been running a build utilizing this concept since a month after launch. I wa running 20-25-10-5-5 but with the change to celerity you are forced to use 10-25-10-0-25 as you described. This equates to zero condi clearing now that you cannot take the torch trait. Conversely the change to weakness probably helps ( not easy to ‘see’ it )

I have only used this in spvp as I do not see it working in wvw and I do not pve with my mesmer.

In my opinion the weapons must be sword/pistol and sword/torch. Sword is the best because the clones are always running right to them.

I swapped to all bleed enhance runes after they reduced the endurance gain from the adventurer runes.

I’ve done both rabid and rampage and I found rabid to be superior.

Sigils are energy (duh) and agony or minor corruption.

Heal is (face heal) for all rune choices save adventurer in which case its the deflection one.

Utilities are decoy/mirror images/veil

Elite is mass invis

You need to find ways to swipe them with your sword or blurred frenzy periodically so that your vigor gets proc’d

Do not shatter unless you need a daze or distortion to save your life. Mind wrack only to close out their health. Alternatively you can shatter to clear out phantasms if you feel it is necessary.

Only stop producing clones when they need to catch up to the target.

You’re function on the field is creating an uneven distribution of resources. Ideally you are heading to a point and will be the only one going there all match. You either take the point, require an unreasonable amount of attention to get rid of, or they take it and leave so you take it back (because you used all you invis to just move away a bit and wait). 1v1’s are more often a win than not.

If you are curious to see it anyone is welcome to watch me play it. I’m not going to tell you this will be anything hot in serious tpvp (unfortunately I do not get to participate in it) but its just fine in solo q. If anything I have more fun playing this way than any other spec and you really get to confuse people (I’ve had many comments on this) and that is what attracted me to mesmer in the first place.

Hf and gl