I don’t main ele so if you wish to disregard my thoughts go ahead.
Staff is a group slanted weapon. It is that way for all professions that use one. Ele staff has the most available fields. That and healing appear to be its niche amongst the staff wielding professions. This is the reason you lack finishers.
I am working on a staft ele for part time spvp for fun and the discrepancy that I noticed with staff is that it is predisposed toward power/crit over condition damage. If they were to make changes I think the first step is balancing that out.
I have been playing sc/sw – sw/p using phantasms for a while now. Same basic point distribution. I just swapped out to mantras a few days ago to give it a shot and I may end up preferring it.
I’ve lost the ability to escape or hide (which over time I imagine will suck when im outnumbered) but being in my opponents face draws attention which seems to have permitted me to drop signet of illusion. I also get to cleanse which is super neato.
I prefer using sword with scepter. Once you’ve established an appropriate hp advantage you can leverage the chain blocking to do (as you’re aware) obscene damage to seal the deal. Being able to chain the blocking also helps occasionally for running away or getting into position suffering less damage.
The attack chain needs to land in full before an opponent recovers from a full-adrenaline stun. That is the speed I’d like to see.
I would think the point of carrying a focus with a condition build is that you are planning to stack the chill with staff 3/DS 2 with the intent of spreading it with epidemic and/or you are stacking regen and you have enough power to make using focus skills a non-waste of time.. Otherwise probably not worth it.
Not for my benefit, for group fights.
I’ve only been using the golem as im trying some minions but seeing as how I get controlled so much its nice to be able to add anither during a fight to sort of “balance it out”.
I also have zero love for the blobby minion. I don’t see the occasional blind that may or may not hit due to pathing worth the loss in damage.
I’m using the worm and bone monkeys and I like them a lot. The ranged pet looks strong but I feel 3 slots of pets for a power build is too much. The worm is great as it does the best damage and breaks stun. Also it never suffers from pathing.
Its easy to stack vul 25 times with axe and focus. Would it be worth taking epidemic to spread that? Sadly I don’t tpvp outside of solo-join so I am being honest here.
This experience is leading me to the conclusion that vul is a “soldiers” or “knights” condition. Soldier amulet is working well. Its fun to work with something new.
I don’t necessarily have a preference toward a power build, axe its just my first stop in the experimentation process. I wanted to try stacking might and vul first. Now I’ll try just vul as a means of increasing pet damage. I’ll probably finish with a retaliation build. Outside of that I’m not sure why someone would choose Axe.
Maybe life siphoning as it seems to have the most attacks in a given time but dagger has a siphon right in the bar so it seems to scream it.
I have just recently begun working on a hobby-necro for s/tpvp having experience with engy and mesmer. I can’t ever remember being tossed about, locked down, and just generally abused as I have with this necro (especially the thief steal…holy crap).
I’ve only just started and im trying power/axe builds but respect to those who were initially attracted to necro and stuck with it after finding out you didn’t need to deal with being a ragdoll.
Couldn’t make a vul/might stacking build work. I got a consistent 15ish stacks of might and 20ish stacks of vul but it just didnt seem to be effective enough in spvp to carry the experiment over to tpvp. Going to try vul stacking and having minions take advantage of it. Wish me luck :-)
Hello rangers.
I created a ranger alt last night to mix up my spvp gametime. I am using GS because lets face it, rangers have the coolest GS animations.
Some questions then ill briefly go over the builds I tried.
I read that GS is a ‘tanky’ weapon? I get that it has evade and block but last night I was struggling to maintain a consistant rotation of my GS 1 chain. It didn’t seem to take much for me to be considered to be out of position. Admittedly I do not main melee I. Spvp so perhaps this is just me?
Adding to the above my first thought was increasing boon duration to +50 so my protection off of dodge would be 3 seconds. This is because I thoughr my ‘tanky’ chain would be the full GS 1 chain followed by a dodge , then repeat. Is that thinking on the right track?
When I did engage I typically went 3, 4, 5 to open finding my way to sword 3, 2 (unfinished) finishing with horn4. Is that a proper ‘outline’ or plan?
I tried 0-0-15-15-25-15 with mud/evade/‘protect me’ first and it seemed to work ok.
I tried 0-0-15-30-25 with spirits and I think the distribution might of been ok but I don’t care for the spirits at all. Their pathing drove me nuts and I felt like it was better to dip in and out of engagements and let the pet carry the dps load over just throwing myself into the fray.
I finished with 0-20-30-0-20 with mud and the twp pet damage buffs (signet and shout) and that seemed ok too.
Any advice, especially gameplay, would be fantastic. This GS endeavour isn’t a serious exercise but I prefer the tournies and i’d like to pull my weight as much as possible.
(edited by djtool.8372)
So this weekend I attempted to make confusion my main source of damage by (basically) employing the following:
Sigils of energy
Inspiration trait 3 (vigor on shatter)
Signet of illusions.
Weapons were scep/torch and staff
Basically its about using your signet to double up on your confusion shatter, and it was successful in a solo-join environment. I can not tell you if it works in an organized environment as I do not have that capability.
I think I could have alternatively used sword/pistol in place of staff if I wished. I preferred the torch to pistol as it typically gives me the opening move(s).
I think next weekend I’ll try to do the chaos shield dealie and retain that signet of illusion so that I can double up on distortion and imbued diversion (or the other GM trait). Should be easy to cast the signet during a full distortion shatter.
I’m gonna have to say, trying to run confusion in sPvP is a horrible idea….but in sPvP where confusion hits like a wet noodle, no one will even notice your damage.
I don’t agree with this statement universally but i do agree trying to use confusion as your main source of damage is taking some of your means to success out of your control.
For example confusion on classes that are using “slow” methods of attacking really, really sucks.
On “fast” classes (thieves, some rangers) it works extremely well.
So (to reiterate) you “hope” that you face someone whom you can exploit. Otherwise its a tough road ahead.
I still am hoping to find A very good spec for it as confusion (again) is one of the things that truly seperates this profession from the others.
In regards to surviving an encounter I think carriorn vs. Rabid is basically a wash. If you were to leave that as your deciding factor I think the right decision falls to which type of build the meta is likely to give you for an opponent: power/crit or condition.
I think my confusion spikes are reliably 12-ish. The daze shatter is a bit counter productive as the average shatter duration (with % 33 boost) is around 5 seconds. Well thats not hot when they can’t do anything during that time (typically). This is where my curiousity surrounding the application of confusion via chaos armor comes in.
I was thinking on it last night and I suppose the reality of it is that you probably cannot make confusion your main source of damage but that still leaves the choice of filler either being power damage or condition.
Condition is nice as you are already 20 deep into the dueling line….
….however power is also nice because you make your daze shatter (and sword clones if you use one) truly useful (ideally immediately following your immob on sword 3 and prior to sword 2).
I get to play this weekend. Anyone on EB?
Thx again
I could use some empirical assistance in speeding along my research toward a confusion build to settle on (SPvP). I have a smaller amount of time for games and I’d rather game than crunch, so thanks in advance to any who help.
One area of curiousity is the value of taking ‘confusion on blind’ in reference to chaos armor. With a staff/sword loadout you can achieve 15 seconds of chaos armor however is that better than the long-duration confusion the scepter brings? Unknown without recording a few matches.
I’m also curious in regards to carrion vs. Rabid. I recognize rabids superiority for a condition build however you need to shatter like a madman to stack confusion so I question the value of ‘leftover clone bleed damage’ vs. the extra damage from increasex power.
I’m also curious about shattered images. It sounds awesome with the extra might and confusion stack but I dont make a habit of being in melee range. In practice I dont want to be there and ‘shooters’ dont want to be near me (unless im being baited by a ranger for a trap).
Anything else I may have missed as well.
I’ve tried…
30, 20, 0, 0, 20
20, 20, 0, 0, 30
10, 20, 0, 10, 30
0, 20, 10, 10, 30
20, 20, 0, 10, 20
…And just dont have the time to really crunch them all. I know I really like ‘vigor on shatter’ but It can be hard to fit in when confusion duration is imperative to leaning on confusion damage as your main source.
Thanks for any input
Battering ram is a good gadget for rifle users.
I have to agree with others that you are likely playing the wrong class regarding the experience you’re looking for.
The very nature of the engy is to use their tinkering skills to compensate for their lack of physical acumen. I think if your arguement was that my engy with rifle turret isn’t close enough to the damage as a warrior you’d have more ground to stand on.
Whether or not the rifle turret is ‘fine’ is another discussion.
I don’t think rampager would be so bad if your intent is to maximize sharper images, but only if your loadout is staff and GS. Using a crit-procing sigil further justifies it.
If shattering is to be a part of your condition damage plan then that rules out rampagers.
I can’t speak on wvw but I have been doing spvp with mesmer for a very long time and it is my humble opinion that we are not set up to bleed stack people to death. In my opinion sharper images is best utilized when you do not have a useful shatter to apply. This trait helps to bridge the gap between shatters so that you may continue to apply pressure.
I have two ‘best’ bleed heavy specs that I will share with you if that is the direction you are set on. The second one however is not applicable in wvw.
Just had this thought so wanted to pass it on.
This could very well lack perspective as I don’t wvw
Couldn’t portal just be eliminated from the utility list and be changed into a purchasable bundle or a structure (entry portal) that produces an exit portal bundle?
This way all have acess to it and spec’ing for speed could be more of a give/take in spvp.
Just curious
The proper choice comes from your preferred method of doing damage IMO.
If you are looking to keep clones up then you should take rabid so they proc more bleeds.
If you are looking to shatter infrequently then take whichever you prefer
If you are looking to shatter like a wildman then take carrion.
Spvp is about fun and gaining glory. Simplest solution in my eyes is awarding glory to someone who switches. More than they would get by being on the winning team. Now you’ve created two rewards on opposite sides: increased currency (glory) or the esoteric reward of victory.
Xp bonus is another possible reward.
Just need to develop a method to stave abuse.
You can: pop up two illusions, finish with decoy, confusion shatter while casting signet of illusions, and confusion shatter again for really big confusion damage spikes.
That’s for fun. In a practical setting you want to use your distortion shatter before popping signet of illusions.
I am not well wrote on mantras but I did notice that the trait that grants toughness while casting only gives 200, which I didnt feel was much of a difference maker.
Someone brought up warden and I wanted to let them know one of (if not the) best method of using the warden in pvp is:
Sword 3
Focus 5
Sword 3
Just want to help you get the most out of your warden.
Any ‘fix’ likely has to maintain scepter as a power/crit option.
First thing to recognize is staff. It is not a “condition” weapon, it is a “group condition” weapon. This weapon is optimized for group encounter situations. that is why you apply vulnerability. that is why you produce a field. It is why your warlocks damage is optimized in a group setting (i.e. more conditions on a target).
Condition application – The class is reliant on clone crits for bleed stacks. No you will not apply the same amount of bleeds as some other classes but you will shatter your clones to produce confusion and swiftly replace them. You class mechanic replaces ‘OMG condition damage’ with versatiliy.
Confusion is what drives a mesmer’s condition damage and it function either as steady damage that additional to your bleeds + retaliation, or it funtions as ‘condition-burst’ where you stack large amounts of confusion to do large amounts of damage “now”.
Phantoms – The condition phantasms are the mage and the duelist (to a smaller extent the warden). Phantasms do not exist in a vacuum and therefore must be created with duelings 15 train in mind.
I do not agree with the phantasmal mage’s implementation however. the duration should be longer (at the least as long as the recharge timer on the phantasm’s attack). I also question whether it should be single target as the prestige is an aoe.
Build diversity – this presumption is only correct when your goal is simply ‘max number of damaging conditions’. Yes rabid is the only way to achieve the max. Other viable ‘condition’ specs exist within the other amulets but they sacrifice max condition application for some other tools or power-damage. It would be cool to have another ‘max’ alternative but then ‘max’ is ‘max’ after all.
Traits – The trait deceptive evasion: I actually am not thrilled that our primary resource mechanic is tied up in the precision line. Why should a carrion or shaman’s amulet wearer have to care about precision? I’m not a fan here.
I have not experienced any real issue with clone AI.
Shatter burst should not be the only build option – I’m not sure how to answer this. There is basically bleeds, poison, burns, and confusion. Most classes have bleed stacks. A couple make burns their primary source of cond damage. One or two can do significant poison damage. Only one class can really focus on confusion damage….us. I feel that if you want to do massive bleed stacks you’ve come to the wrong place.
(edited by djtool.8372)
I used it again in pvp last night and its apparent that this weapon is just far superior as an offensive power/crit tool than a condition or defensive one. I can appreciate that it fills the roll of single target ranged damage (GS is basically an aoe one), but this class really needs a dedicated “selfish” condition damage weapon (staff is a group oriented weapon)
I was doing 5k on power 3 after a shatter or two finishing with diversion (not counting confusion). Even sword 2 can’t do as much (confusion gives scept the edge).
The “group” effect is basically non-existent against players, and interrupts are not particularly useful in PvE due to the Unshakable mechanic.
That is undeniable. But line “aoe” is still the mechanic.
One thing they could try is replacing the confusion on the third attack to blind. Even if that would require a rework of the block.
Whatever is to happen it is going to have to fall in the guideline of confusion and/or blind. That is the theme of the weapon.
I think the onlly solution that works within their framework will require a percent chance for a condition (blind or confusion) to occur. I would start with %33 chance of 1 confusion on first attack , clone on second , blind on third (unsure of the probability). Cooldown between completion of second attack and cool-off of third should be equal to maintaining the auto-attack , to prevent spamming clones. This change would make scepter clones useful and make scepter desirable for condition specs. The weapon is already an excellent power/crit weapon.
I have tried 0-10-30-0-30 with shamans and it has potential. I realize that isn’t truly “no dueling” but it basically emhasizes your intention.
The 10 = retaliation on block and that in turn requires the stealth grandmaster to make it work.
The other to try is loading up condition duration so that your confusion lasts. I have been running full shatter build with recharge on %50 and signet of illusions to double up on cry of frustration early in a confrontation. It seems to work ok but the duration of the confusion stacks, even at +%73 doesn’t blow my mind. Still a servicable spec but I of course have DE. I just relate this anecdotally.
30 in power line and 25 in inspiration will give you max “power” damage.
For crit you need high dueling (duh)
You’ll have to go with berserkers or knights to get what you’re going for.
Most time the phantasm recharge trait will cut is 2 seconds.
Sword and pistol do comparable damage if you have high crit. Difference is pistols tail end can be cleansed. Also swordsman recharges every 6 seconds. Duelist will generally work better in pvp because it creates space between itself and target, so they have to identify and chase it down. Swordsman is right up in their grill so it is the better choice if you want retaliation to be a part of your spec (requiring 5 spent in inspiration).
Indeed. Perhaps if there was a trait that crippled on daze? I’d take that over %50 chance to stun and it keeps its distance from staff and pistol.
I’m not confident in your proposed change as it switches the mechanic to single target from group.
Whatever change is to be made you likely need to maintain the group effect as that is the most basic intention of the power.
Carrion if you can shatter like a bleep-hole (example: you selected recharge shatters at %50 health). Also if you want to use weapons that produce “power” phantasms (example: sword/sword gives you the most illusions to shatter).
Rabid if you are going to have downtimes and/or am not super-interested in mind wrack (example: three staff clones spamming or mind wrack? With rabid I’d choose the former)
Rampage if your primary goal is illusions bleed on crit
Shaman if you care most about confusion damage.
In theory the torch phantasm is maximized with 15 in inspiration. You would cause confusion, grab the retaliation, and the protection buff to maximize your retaliation damage (at least your punishment for dealing it).
Not sure how effective that is. Maybe I’ll try it and let you know. I’m constantly trying new things so why not.
If group A and group B ( lets say 3 or 4 people) are about to engage, a mesmer in group A can cast mass invis and grant group A a massive alpha strike on one called target. That target will likely go down rapidly, giving group A numbers and a greater likelihood of success.
For that reason I doubt there will be a buff to the power directly. Its not Anet’s fault if people aren’t doing this.
Your two most recyclable sources of stealth are decoy and torch. I’m not sure you will be a ‘stealth’ build without them both. This in turn makes it awfully difficult to rely on phantasms as the torch’s is not rocking anyone’s world right now.
It’s the most popular tpvp spec and everyone is always talking about it. So is that the players fault for wanting to practice the ‘best’ distribution or Anets fault for not having other distributions that are as equally apparent and effective?
Oh maybe a spec that uses invis? That would give you opportunities to position yourself in a good place to recharge a mantra.
If I had a solid build for you I’d give it to you neckro.
All out glass cannon is obvious.
Maybe a condition/defensive spec using the condition on interrupt trait.
Veil does this to me often. Its so flipping annoying.
I just want to remind everyone that condition on death equates to vulnerability, weakness, or bleeding. You get one stack of confusion from the dueling 25 trait. Unless he is producing clones for the sole purpose of destroying them by creating another specing for condition damage probably wont yield him much. Also he can’t do the above if he plans on using GS.
If he instead wanted to use his GS clones to stack bleeds for him then he should take rampagers and get a staff to go with it.
For spvp I think the OP should tell us what amulet he’s considering as that more or less defines a builds direction.
Easymode you’ve said you run one before. I’m curious if anything in what capacity (e.g. glass cannon). If you wish to keep it a secret that’s fine. Knowing the “job” is enough for me.
My biggest complaint with mantras is the trait that lets yoj cast them three times. Its very hard to think about using mantras without it. I hope in the future they change that trait toward some other benefit and just let mantras have three casts. I am no expert though, I don’t run with them often as they don’t appeal to me much.
The relationship between the shattering mechanic and someone who wants to play a phantasm spec is that you try avoid shattering but you must do so occasionally.
If you want to play phantasms you must develop a technique for avoiding confrontation/damage. This is so that you can at least setup your phantasms. You may also wish to continue doing this during a fight.
When the above techniques are on cooldown you will need to shatter your phantasms to produce distortion or daze. These are core mechanics, which mean your toolbox is designed knowing these are already accessible to you. You should expect to have to use them.
Increasing illusion health serves three purposes ( at least from a design theory perspective). One is to keep them alive longer in aoe. Not only phantasms but (for example) sword and staff clones so that they can keep applying conditions. The second function serves as steady retaliation damage. The third is keeping clones alive long enough to set up shatters with max effectiveness. This is all
probably more effective in pve (which I rarely do). It is not solely for a “phantasm specs”.
My most sucessful phantasm runs seem to come when using veil and decoy with mass invis as the elite. I don’t care much for it in tpvp as this type of spec struggles to kill before help arrives. I think your best bet is using scep/swd. You can summon , switch to scep/swd , summon, block-dmg, block-dmg, then disappear to evaluate your next move or heal. Knights amulet is best I think.
He has point in that clones can be used for more than shatters (well except our dear scepter).
Theoretically a power-swd person wants to keep his clones to maintain vulnerability stacks and to cripple when they get blowed up.
The same applies to staff clones. Theoretically you want to maintain them for bleeds and burns.
These are logical uses for clones. Again, theoretically you keep three up and then shatter when you can replace them.
The problem is that shattering them (see shatter specs) is a stronger use in pvp. Many people are not capable of “seeing” other uses or methods because the best (true or perceived) has already been weeded out.
Furthermore mesmer is the profession that utilizes confusion more than any other profession. Shattering is the primary method of stacking confusion.
Shattering should be as much an option as specing for kits, deathshroud , burst skills , etc.. is it? I wouldn’t know as I don’t play those professions and I like confusion so I typically spec for it.
@gaia
Until the masses stop touting the mesmer as an OP pvp profession spvp will continue to be littered with them. Casuals or non. No worries on that front.
@all : You still can run phantasms if that’s your gig. Just don’t go into it thinking they’re going to do all the work for you.
some things to help you vs. the shatter mesmers:
lead with your distortion shatter. shatter mesmers often lead with mind wrack and then very swiftly with cry of frustration.
Use ‘the presitge’ early in the confrontation. If you are in stealth and they are not you get to make the first move. If they’ve already created clones the clones will stop moving and you can position yourselfs to destroy 1 or more when you drop out of stealth. Do this again with Decoy.
when you are running towards them press scepter 2 to block their first move. Often times a phantasm summon.
Also staff 1, sword 1, sword 2, and scep 3 are exactly what you want to use your might stacks with. None of those were needed to create clones either. Well…In addition to all those confusions you just created.
Typically when you shatter spam you stack confusion, that’s what you accomplish. The might maximizes your confusion damage. Is that not apparent?
A lot of words and arguements, this is simply a number and opinion topic.
I had 2200 condition damage last night for quite a few seconds. Is that ok? That’s not for me to decide.
A 10 second buff is easily brought to 15 with a few trait and/or rune investments. I think max we can achieve is 18 seconds? Either Is pretty long as far as boon duration goes.
It takes 3 dodges, 2 utilites, and 4 powers to produce a lot of might. It’s really not as much of a time investment as it might seem.
Its a good change in that it give spike to non-power traiting mesmers (see shorter condition durations)
It’s a bad change in that it helps retain a point distribution (20-20-0-0-30) that is often seen (and might be) as the best distribution. It also pushes mesmer more towards shatter-spamming instead of a direction that encourages timely shattering.
The trait that inflicts a condition on interrupt: which conditions does it inflict? I can confirm chill but that is it.
This has to be an old question but I’ve never seen it. If I have the first inspiration minor trait (5 points), an illusionary defender , and have the retaliation boon on me – does an attacker suffer two hits of retaliation when attacking me ?
TIA
@sinican
Greatsword will net you 13-17 stacks of bleed when set up to do it. This is why you must decide what “condition damage” means to you. If he wants big bleed stacks greatsword is his best choice.
Retaliation is great when you have the toughness and/or vitality to support it. You only get it with choas storm and you only max that by selecting the appropriate trait in dueling. If retal is important to the OP he should get it from traiting cry of frustration as that is the best source for it.
Chaos storm’s conditions are nice but fleeting. Its value lies in its boons and the ease in which it supplies another chaos armor.