Could be a good thing if you want to drop a field for them to use.
No. No industrially manufactured weapons for nature-bleepers.
Better to create a light armored rifle user so that the weapon is represented across all types.
A nice step to help this would be the relableing of rooms. Instead of server 5 you could have “dueling 5” or “standard 5”.
People duel on servers because they have the desire and it is their only method. Getting upset about that is a personal issue.
There are bleep-holes in all areas of the game. Getting frustrated by that is understandable and the only thing you can do about it is refuse to pass that mentality on while displaying patience and kindness.
Side note: a one person difference in 5 man hotjoin is much too dramatic. I would really like to see 2 man cues for each server when they sit at an even number.
Tossing this out there in case people are just looking for a change-up and/or enjoy their mesmer in a different way.
I suppose builds have to have names so I’m going with “Ghostly Explosions”
Sometimes you just want to have fun and this build will give that to some people. The base is:
10 (V)
25 (II, IV, or V)(X)
10 (V)
0
5
(20 left)
Utilities: (Veil or Blink) (Decoy) (Mirror Images)
Heal: (Ether Feast or Mirror)
Elite: (Mass Invisibility)
Amulet: Rampagers or Rabid
Runes: Condition dmg focus. Adventurer is a good start
Sigils: Energy on prime, Corruption on secondary
Weapons: (sword/torch)(sword/pistol or Focus)
Gameplay:
You are creating clones as fast as you can because when you overwrite another clone it is destroyed. This in combination with Dueling’s 15 trait stacks quite a bit of bleeding on your target. The amount is comparable to what you may have achieved with GS/Staff bleed builds. You may have a few less stacks but then you’re gaining confusion as well. When you are not able to produce any more clones use your defensive skills to bridge the gap between cooldowns (invis’s, sword-2, stun). Alternatively you may shatter your final 3 clones for cry of frustration instead of leaving them up to create bleeds or be destroyed. If you choose this option then consider spending 10 points in Inspiration for the ‘vigor on shatter’ trait. I personally recommend using 10 more points in Domination for the trait that removes conditions on torch use. This build was nerfed a bit when the amount of endurance runes of the adventurer provided was reduced to %50, but it is still workable and fun.
Pros: You win many engagements with this build. You are also able to keep 2 – 4 people’s attention for quite a bit of time (with proper use of invis skills). I must say of all builds I’ve tested it is the most enjoyable.
Cons: Despite how hard it is to kill you you will not hold points. This is because you must use your invis’s to disengage and hide to confuse them. Killing people with this build is typically a medium to long time investment. If they are good at condition removal it can be ridiculously slow and you should consider just moving on. You also have zero control over which condition will be applied when a clone is destroyed (weakness, vulnerability, and bleeding I believe)
Tournament play: it is fine for pugs and just ok for team. Your role with this build is to sit on ‘their’ point the entire map and either take it or ‘collect’ enemies, giving your team a numbers advantage.
I use it in spvp for a couple of builds:
Its a great power/crit weapon as the totals of your counter-attack and scepter 3 can get upwards of 8k (not including confusion damage). Its biggest problem is the blocking mechanism and how it doesn’t really protect you if you are looking for the counter-attack. In fact you block one and take 1-3 attacks while waiting for it to go off.
I’ve also used it in a all-out retaliation build that is pretty raw and requires tweaking before I can say it isn’t strong enough. The main issue is that max retaliation is scepter/sword + staff loadout which by default means power/cond build (I.e. carrion amulet) since you need power for retaliation. The extra vitality helps but for it to work more armor might be needed.
Stealth thieves are only seen an issue because the majority of players in spvp spec for single target and not ranged dmg. Im sure plenty of ele’s and staff necros (common nec weapon) could care less about them.
Also some people haven’t learned that you can still hit them while stealthed so when it happens they give up for a bit instead of continuing to swing or use aoe’s.
And if you shoot you’ll get no sympathy from me as I have stealthed a bunch on my mesmer and somehow continue to be tracked and hit by projectiles after the fact.
20 in dom for boon removal or vulnerability on shatter. Boon removal is obvious. Vul on crit will often bring your targets vulnerability stacks up to 25 on a daze shatter. So if thats your choice you sword-port, use diversion to max your damage with sword(2), then follow with mind wrack.
If you run a mantra build with the dmg increase per mantra you can achieve around %50 dmg increase on sword(2). I dont know if I’d recommend the spec but the numbers are fun to see once in a while.
I wish there was another way to implement this idea. If shatters are core to the class a person such as myself finds it extremely difficult to not spec the best method of generating this resource.
Maybe this is just my problem however I dont feel as though im the only one.
Another note: I am really bored of 20-20-0-0-30 and I would be very happy to hear other specs that are paid tourney legit that do not utilize this distribution. I currently think 20-20-0-10-10(10) as a power/crit spec is at least very close but needs some love on the blocking mechanic to push it.
Further more, just as a small rant, I absolutely hate portal. Not the power inherently, but the culture it creates regarding mesmers and what I ‘have’ to do.
Thx for the vent
They should have separate tabs in the hotjoin menu.
I think before any other change an increase in area should come first.
After that either more dmg or more boon removal. Although the latter must always be weighted against all mesmer boon removal tools stacked together alongside the boon removing sigil.
I disagree with bleeding as GS is primarily a power/aoe weapon (whose clones just happen to make it flexible to be used for condition).
“….. The only benefit of scepter is you get a lackluster block that kittens your survival when activated and a death beam which is only good if something is dumb enough to attack…. "
the block with scepter crits for over 3k with beserker amulet
the “death beam” will total for 3K to 6K, not including confusion damage.
so aside from my, and the OP’s criticism of the blocking mechanism, what’s the problem?
The OP has made some correct observations. I had brought up the blocking mechanism myself and am glad someone else is calling attention to it.
Scepter is a better power/crit weapon than condition. In fact scepter/sword give mesmers their highest single target damage output.
Blocking as it is now puts the burden on the blocker (spvp). The target will get in 1 or more attacks between block and counter-attack. This means the blocker is the one who needs to figure out if the incoming attack is more important than other. Some attacks happen so fast that I dont feel this is a reasonable burden to apply.
In my opinion the burden should be on the attacker.
I agree that the counter-attack should happen immediately upon a successful block.
I do not feel range is as large an issue at this time from my own personal experience.
The next profession should, and probably will be a heavy armor wearing anti-hero type. Seeing as how we only have 2 heavies and neither has an anti-hero theme.
I would just like to see all mantras have the same recharge as mantra of pain. You just are not casting these things in combat so the expunging of mantras during combat, and having to wait until the end of the encouter (basically) before recharging them is a sufficient “recharge timer” in my mind.
Also gaining 200 armor while casting a mantra is not going to save your kitten in the middle of a scrap so that trait should be reworked on the basis its almost completely worthless. If Anet is married to the concept then give the mesmer distortion for half of the mantra cast (the back half so that it can’t be abused).
Mantra of pain does quite a bit of damage and absolutely needs no buff in that respect. You get a free 2 – 4K damage during a big damage spike (because you can press it twice).
Of all of them I find mantra of healing the most difficult to manage. This is because it is the most reactionary of the 5 and you’re usually pressing other buttons when you need to fire it off.
I believe creating seperate tabs for 8v8 and 5v5 would provide a better experience for joining hotmatch. Please consider implementing this.
My apologies but im a succinct person.
Rapier or epee would be sweet but not enough differentiation from swords.
Fan would be appropriate but probaly only fits as an offhand.
Remember its not just about the mesmer. If you introduce a new weapon at least one other profession needs to use it.
I used to not care much about these thief specs as I too was running about with the usual mesmer tricks.
When you try other specs that do not employ the normal array of escapes there is definately a period of adjustment. I am now starting to die in these 2 or 3 hits same as other classes. Not always, but I am understanding the frustration other people have experienced.
This thread is a function of a group-think mentality that Anet still hasn’t beaten down yet, so I’ll repeat it:
Illusions are not proper pets. They aren’t meant to be. Mesmer is not a “pet” class. This will not change. Thus these in fact are attacks (a representation of attacking someone(s) mind) and therefore they are treated as such.
Good day.
I would say that deceptive evasion is so desirable that It can be a real bummer that you have to go 20 into precision in order to produce a bunch of clones.
Spamming clones is primarily a condition damage function and placing that trait 20-deep in the precision line, along with the 15 point trait, really “forces” your hand into the dueling line and stifles creativity.
To Whom it may concern:
I have been using the blocking skills lately and a common occurence is my counter-attack being negated before it can fire off (via interrupt, obstruction, etc.). This possibility changes the block from a defensive manuever the opponent has to adapt to into a gamble on my part.
May this please be reviewed as an (un)acceptable sequence of events?
Thank you
I’m just tossing these out there in case one of them is a good idea
I was thinking perhaps one way to improve spvp balance and variety would be to retain the capture point concept but tweak it.
The change would be to remove the capture point real-estate and replace it with flags that have to be ‘communed’ with similar to skill point objectives and the new temple map. a flag may be lowered as fast as a point is lost, and raised as long as a point is captured.
This keeps the basic premise of Anet’s Tpvp in place but changes bunker-specs from a “necessity” to a choice. Bunkers are as effective as they are because they can maintain a presence on a point while using skills. With the flag change they will not be able to utilize skills while trying to turn a point, thus they maintain their sturdiness but lose the ability to defend themselves while capturing. They retain their value because they can still keep a person off a flag, they just don’t get the benefit of doing that and capturing it. With stability being a removable boon, I believe that may not be overpowered in this scenario (except for below perhaps).
My primary concerns is the duration of an elementalist’s stability when they have the rocks floating about them, and whether or not the flag change just turns the tpvp game into all burst specs.
—————————————
My other map idea is that perhaps instead of all-or-nothing (i.e. capture points) perhaps maps should be divided into 3 seperate means of gaining points. methods that favor different build choices (burst, balanced, bunker, control, etc.). If we could come up with a number of different build choices, you can design a series of maps that utilize 3 different choices while mixing them up so that a specialized build will have a marginal role in at least 1 of the 3 maps.\
As an example: remember the artifact in Rift? What if you had an artifact that did damage to you based on your toughness, damaged you when you healed, and when you dodged? It would have to be kept in a circle same as now and lost when outside it.
——————
another idea is to implement a “kill-zone” mechanic. This would replace a capture point with a larger amount of real-estate (ideally 1200 – 1800 distance) that gives the same, or more points for slaying an enemy as you do on a regular capture point. This provides the “death-match” mechanic some people crave while maintaining group-orientated play.
The catch is that you must be in the real-estate to get the bonus points. This can be safely accomplished by providing a continuous buff when in the real-estate. This buff would last a short period so that stepping in and leaving would not be a viable tactic. For example: buff is refreshed every 2 seconds, lasts 3 seconds.
Meanwhile you would still have 2 other means of gaining points (at this time CP’s). The points awarded for a kill in the new mechanic should be of a value to make holding a point vs. going for the kills a real choice.
I used it in tpvp and it is serviceable.
Base for build is:
20 precision line – clone on dodge
10 toughness line – condition on clone death
20 illusions line – take the extra bounce trait
Rampagers or rabid
Earth sigil for GS, earth or corruption for staff.
Its fun thematically as its the lose/lose situation.
Try to keep 3 clones up to max bleed stacks. Shatter when you can readily replace.
ok not that mesmers have a ton to complain about but:
“thank god veil works for me %100 of the time when I cross the line”
“going invisible is so key to surviving powers like rangers “2”, thank god their shots stop tracking me when I disappear"
The only real advantage pistol has over sword in this scenario is that the duelist is away somewhere and has to be tracked to be destroyed while the swordsman is in their face and easy to find, if he already isnt destroyed by incidental damage. This is the inherent reason why the duelist sees more success.
This decision falls outside the weapon itself and lies in the realm of condition or power (burst) damage. Sword is a power weapon and its illusion does all of its damage upfront, where the duelist does its damage over time (including the time difference of its eight shots compared to the one leap of the swordsman)
staff builds typically emulate the rabid amulet (I spvp only sorry I can’t talk about pve). Some people go with the carrion. So whatever direction you want to go with those trait lines. It tends to write itself.
You can achieve maximum condition damage with 0-0-25-0-30 + 15 using undead runes and corruption sigils. your duration lacks but you can achieve 1900+ condition damage. This type of build requires playing a decoy game which lacks somewhat as you can be tracked by being marked.
GS/Staff condtion is pretty much getting at least %50 crit, 15 in precision line, and attempting to maintain 3 clones opposed to shattering them.
(edited by djtool.8372)
I’m not entirely sure what the dev’s can even do about condition damage spec’s in Tpvp.
mesmer condition damage specs are strong and you can win with them a lot. Its not that we are weak when spec’d for condition damage, its just that condition damage is inherently a slower kill than burst. That’s just the way of it. So in a tpvp setting where you not only have people dedicated to roaming but the team is also coordinating with voip the condition spec can end up in a situation where they can’t kill before help arrives.
I’m not sure what Anet can do about that. We are already capable of dealing condition damage with a pretty darn high amout of survivability. You have to find a way to do your condition damage and remain alive for an extended period of time against 2 people.
We can do that with certain specs and loadouts, but results are varied as (again) your opponent is coordinated.
just not sure what they can do about that.
From my experience as a mesmer I have concluded that the torch ‘4’ should cause the aoe burning effect either upon leaving stealth period or on a seperate buttong that the player can press.
Torch ‘5’ should be an aoe confusion to keep the AoE theme that 4 has alread created. Perhaps increase the cast frequency but one should be done before the other to make sure its ok.
I think the mantra for extremes is that the closer you get to one, the more you require a teammate to finish the job. After all this is the way of life. A ‘balanced’ society can only get so far. Humankind excels because people adopt “specializations”, their personal “weaknesses” being covered by others specializations. This can work with GW2 as long as the holy-cow (group/targeted healing) is untouched.
Perhaps thieves should not be able to heal and stealth at the same time. seperating those two may create a profound adjustment.
Perhaps stability should exist on a give and take basis with healing power
I don’t mind chain-stunning for a period as long as that is on a give and take basis with damage (and perhaps some mobility). In fact that’s pretty cool because it becomes a team effort to take someone down. The victim had a choice to be mobile or take stun breakers after all.
that’s just a couple thoughts.
Zomg are you serious? You can change your build to adapt to your opponents?
Holy kitten when did they add this feature to games?
I sure hope I didnt blow your mind so hard that you’ll sue me to cover medical expenses. I have kids to buy presents for soon. :-)
why do people complain about portals instead of altering their thief and ranger builds to spam all their traps right on the exit portal? has anyone even thought to try that? Seems like that would really bleep the mesmer up <shrug>.
And like I said in the other thread like this I’m sure if AoE was more commom there wouldn’t be nearly as many complaints about mesmer. Its not the mesmers fault that people only want to do bunkers and ST damage.
Listen i’m not saying that there couldn’t be an adjustment or two, there’s always room for that in any profession. It just seems to me people don’t like mesmers because they don’t want to adjust their playstyles. I hate fighting mesmers too, so I changed my mesmer build to give myself more consistent AoE damage (and for us that’s pretty much just bouncing attacks) so I could more properly deal with mesmers and that thieves guild elite.
ever since this game launched people have been trying to make arena.net adjust the professions to fit their own personal concepts or playstyles.
I also hope they disallow bringing the repair bundle through the portal. Then thieves will be the ones who “have” to man the treb and I won’t.
It seems to me the greatest reason why there are ‘nerf mesmer’ threads is the lack of desire for people (and perhaps teams) to play AoE specs. When I play an AoE necro I don’t find mesmers nearly as hard because i’m destroying the clones and phantasms soon after they are created. You would think with all the “Ai Wars” comments that have been made that more people would have gravitated to layering AoE spec’s in order to counter this, but I still don’t see it. I’m not sure if people have even tried it.
I main mesmer, dabble in necro and engineer. I’m 38 years of age so I work best with people who communicate in a mature fashion. I dislike losing.
Drop me a line for a pub or free tourney trial run if you like, or even just to learn more about me.
Thank you
A Classy Gentleman
Djtool.8372
Im pugging now and am interested in being in a group. Drop me a line and we’ll see how it goes
A Classy Gentleman
Not sure mine is the best but I like it:
Sylvari necro – Marquis de Salade
Torch just needs to burn on early release. This is because while you’re running around invis your still hitable. As long as the refresh timer is independent from these effects its no big deal
Mage is wonky because retaliation is a power stat and everything else about torch is condition damage related. I say keep it one stack of confusion and increase the frequency, or make it aoe confusion to compliment ‘the prestige’s’ aoe focus.
The mists arent reachable at work I need to kill time theory crafting.
NEED! :-)
The trait that creates a poison cloud on minion death: is that a combo field?
TIA
as an auto-attack finisher how can staff 1 possibly be considered garbage. Necro is quite good at setting up fields and the more people around the more fields you have to shoot through. Yeah it doesnt do as much damage as some other professions but then they dont get DS do they.
Dear mesmers and perhaps devs:
So many mesmer players have such a love affair with phantasms it has caused me to consider that perhaps the trait “your phantasms have fury” could swap positions with the trait “create a clone on dodge”.
Such a change would increased the commitment required to having incredibly powered phantasms, and would increase flexibility for those who like to build around shattering clones.
I’m not sure why someone who’s trying to make full use of shatters should (basically) have to be tied to putting 20 into the precision line. You may even see the signet of illusions (active effect) and restore shatters on %50 health used more often with this change.
Conversely someone who wants to use phantasm’s is generally going to put 15 into the precision line and therefore generally going to plop that extra 5 down there to grab a major trait over a minor. It also might tone down phantasms a little bit.
thoughts?
I’ve been playing video games for 30 years now and its never got me paid or laid , so yeah…there is no point to playing games save for one of the two:
1: for fun
2: to satiate your addiction to pretty colors and flashing lights
Although I do relate to the OP because ive been grinding for purple gutters to be installed on the house for months but the money-sinks are killing me.
From a selfish point of view it would be sweet. Then I remember this is geared toward team play and layering vulnerability with my teammates can create a nice advantage for us , even if im not the direct benefactor of it.
There are so many ways an engy can push back , one included in the kit. Aren’t engineers supposed to be swappiny between weapon and kits? I think 2 is fair.
I alt as a necro in pvp sometimes and when I get frustrated it always stems from the crummy stun breaks in conjunction with the almost utter lack of stability. If I have a couple of matches where im constantly being tossed like a ragdoll I typically switch toons. Its just not fun to not be able to act.
You can invis too. When thieves invis you do the same a second or two after they do. That way they at least dont get the drop on you.
That’s one way to help in addition to your shatters.
I have been using flamethrower in s/tpvp for a few days now. The one thing I would like is to have the ‘1’ skill be aim-only. With that capability it would be much easier to use as an aoe weapon. Currently I often have to rapidly switch targets to create a sweeping effect.
The other skills im ok with I guess. I dont care much for ‘4’ but I acknowledge that its a skill meant to be used outside of the flamethrower kit.
Also while 200 toughness is nice I did not find it useful for a defensive/control based build. That’s way too much into the precision line for 200 toughness and the blowback ability. It didnt work well and I feel you really need utility slots to be ‘tanky’.
I imagine balancing the amount of procs the flamethrower can produce from a sigil is ‘fun’. As of now you can chose power or crit with the kit and be satisfied either way. I imagine it will be challenging to maintain that choice once theyre done with all that sigil business.
To reiterate: changing ‘1’ to free-aim, for me, would really strengthen its tourney viability (I am happy with what im using but there needs to be other ways of doing it)
I struggle to see how a “bunker” necro can be so intimidating due to necros almost complete lack of stability. If you cant kill or move the necro then you just have to work around a bad matchup.
maybe when everyone becomes less obsessed with ZOMG single target damage and more interested in aoe builds that end up layering over other peoples aoe builds we’ll start worrying less about clones, thieves guilds, and stealthed people.
ah ok, i didn’t know because i had those other traits enabled. Thanks.
For my use I would prefer having access to poison, chill, and burn as well.
Also while you may feel that it would be a nerf, your phantasmal warlock certainly would not. perhaps that’s the true reason for the short list.
Staff in non-condition based build = no sir
For phantasm builds your weapons of choice depend on what you want to do. Just about any of them work with staff for the various purposes of a build.
scepter and confusion are fine for getting the job done, just utilize them properly.
What you need for a ‘tanky’ build depends on your definition of tanky. If you want to just absorb hits (traditional view) then yess on tough/vit. If you just mean survive then no you don’t need those trait lines.
going into toughness and vitality only ‘makes you’ a phantasm build if you want to do tank/support. In that case you’re using grabbing the warden to suit that purpose (warden can be used offensively but its not nearly as simple as the others).
Going into toughness actually gears you toward a condition build, which for you may be good news. Start with this base:
Toughness trait line = 25
Illusions trait line = 20
Runes = undead
From that base you can tweak around until you find something that suits you, that includes tweaking what I presented.
“tanking” as a mesmer is not about standing about getting whacked. You survive by avoidance (ports and invis) and grabbing as much protection as you can (by standing in proximity to phantasms if you have the traits). The only exception to this is going full-blown into the “mantras heal on cast” mentality. This will allow you to run about like a fool and live long, however it is not a satisfying game experience for most as you’re just spamming mantras to keep the heals going (an over 2k Aoe heal constantly when I last mucked about with it).
good luck sir and enjoy discovering your mesmer
- A Classy Gentleman