Its quite funny and sad that people accept this type of reward/rng system in a b2p game. I have played f2p and even f2p/p2w games that are more rewarding than this game which is saying alot.
pw2 games. Rewarding. Lold
I think the current Traits system is making players power-level alts to 80 with scrolls and tomes. They then either buy traits for a predetermined build or go unlock them for said build. It doesn’t promote experimentation while leveling which in turn allows a player to get to know a profession.
Well you also forget that the leveling experience is to ease people into learning the character before you start delving into stuff. Hence why its lvl gates in every game ever.
the changes aren’t game breaking for most classes, unfortunately mesmers got the short end of the stick there.
The only reason i can think of why experimenting with builds early would be ok is if
1) they gave you all the points off the back, which NO game does, or will.
2) you had an option to say you were a “veteran” with that profession, to remove the “tips/leveling experience”
3)there was any need for it
most times its also a power gate. Most traits add utility and dmg that would just make the game too easy at lower levels too. What’s the fun in that?
Its not about just you guys who have remade every character in the game. There’s tons of people who are new too.
^Thanks for the good news. I hope they make the trait system available to levelers earlier rather than later.
This is all like opinion man. I just leveled 2 alts, and enjoyed every bit of it.
Traits don’t give you addition skills to press. They give bonus dmg/utility and effects.
You will still play the game exactly the same way as before, except now you can deviate into using certain skills specifically.
Every mmo uses a skill/trait system of some sort, and NO game, offers it 100% upfront.
Mesmers are just weak without it. That’s a class problem. Maybe their revised system is better, but still all subjective.
(edited by edgarallanpwn.8739)
It takes forever to kill a turret engi as a mesmer and we have to do it way off the pt . So sure I can kill a turret engi after like 1000 yrs, in the mean time you just earned 100+ pts for your team and I have done jack all for mine. And if you call help at all I have to run off …
This is exactly why people have a problem with engineers, at least turret ones.
wow, people actually defend the abominable RNG in this game. I guess you drones will eat anything.
At least we understand a concept before complaining about it.
So in essence they will either release multiple colored ones or they’ll never release them. thus reiterating my primary point why not make them redyable.
Because the system to allow it may not be currently in place. I’m not a coder so im not going to say its easy or hard.
Well, while we are posting our wings.. might as well. JOIN THE BRIGADE
[img]http://i.imgur.com/XU3B96n.jpg?1[/img]
Curious how long Op’s took. And i can’t get the image to show up right. kitten
Nice tattoo (and I say that as someone who is generally aghast at the idea and execution of tattoos).
As to how to upload an image, you don’t embed codes. You click the More Options below your text box, click Browse to pick an image, and select the image straight off your hard drive. When you post, a thumbnail will appear that can be clicked to see full size.
Multiple images are done by hitting Preview rather than Reply, then using Browse again to add the next image. Rinse and repeat as needed.
I’m so not used to being on 4 different forums for my favorite games. Thanks for the info, and thanks for the compliment! It took me a while to design so I’m glad its well received. It was definitely worth the money =D
Worst is when ppl rage in chat and start insult team mates, esp. when they themselves ARE the reason we are losing. Like when 2 people go far at the start they die, go far again and die again. They notice we are losing badly then proceed to kitten about how bad the rest of the team are and how we should leave ranked and l2p….
Yep! Im over here soloing the lord, while they want to 2v4 mid instead of taking the base with no defender.
Often times i just go off and do whatever. If the match is going that poorly, there’s no sense in me getting frustrated because my team refuses to communicate, or make good decisions, so ill just practice my skills, and gather data
I’m not sure I understand, are you asking, “Why doesn’t everybody keep up with the gems market and buy when it’s low in anticipation of things nobody knows about until they’re released?” Could it be that most people have actual things to do in their lives, and the exchange rate between 2 fake currencies is one of the last things on their minds?
Are you saying that
> see nothing popular in the gem store
> buy when price is lowrequires a significant amount of forethought?
And to answer your question directly, no I am not saying that (if that was even directed at me).
But in all seriousness, I am not a gold conversion nut or whatever you’d call that; but common sense says that it would be best to keep a couple of gems on hand if you are playing the game, due to the fact that things like this happen.
Or at the very least, it would be common sense to expect that prices will go amg high if there’s a one day sale.
This issue really needs to be separated out.
Those complaining are most likely those using gold, thus people who play the game more often than working. People who do that SHOULD know this.
Those who buy gems wouldnt be part of this problem, as the gems $value is always static.
there’s also the subgenre of people who play occassionally, don’t keep up with game the game, but don’t want to pay for gems through cash. This is also one affected that might be the “didn’t have time, but also too cheap to buy gems” deal
I myself have had no issues however.
I earned 300g through the month as a new player, bought 1 outfit, and just bought some skins through the tp, so conversion and rates etc havent affected me one bit
Well, while we are posting our wings.. might as well. JOIN THE BRIGADE
[img]http://i.imgur.com/XU3B96n.jpg?1[/img]
Curious how long Op’s took. And i can’t get the image to show up right. kitten
(edited by edgarallanpwn.8739)
People in general tend to do things at the last minute.
This. A common worldview is there’s always more time until there’s no time left.
Its why people get extensions on taxes, crowd grocery stores the hour before a snowstorm, and the like.
Wait did you really just say last minute, on an impromptu 1 day sale?
Wow.
Except it was almost completely predictable. Gem shop updates happen on Tuesday, things often appear in the wardrobe/chat code links shortly before they are added to the gem shop (wings were). Therefore, it was reasonable to assume that they would be available yesterday and you should buy gems before. If you were wrong, you would still have gems available for next week or the eventual release.
That gray matter is useful sometimes.
Except for…..everything in this guys post you ignored before.
You’re in a casual game. You expect everyone to keep up to date 24/7 with everything thats going on? Most people don’t have time for that. Heck there’s a lot of people that don’t even login everyday
This happens with every new release of remotely interesting new gem store items. There’s been buzz about the wings since last week.
Why don’t people buy gems in advance of the gem store releases and avoid the crazy spike in prices?
Not that I’m complaining, since I’ll time turning some gems into gold with these spikes. I just don’t get why people wait until the last minute then complain when the thing they want is suddenly more expensive in terms of gold.
- Some people did buy gems in advance of gem store releases, including most everyone to whom I suggested buying while it was cheap.
- Not everyone is aware of the hype, since not everyone logs in every day, not everyone follows reddit/guru/these forums (and some don’t even follow /map chat).
- Plenty of folks don’t realize they “want” something until they see others with it (sometimes it’s keeping-up-with-the-Joneses, but sometimes it’s just you don’t realize something is “cool” until you see it in action).
- It doesn’t take all that many people suddenly converting gold to gems to start spiking prices. Once that happens, others start to panic about not being able to convert before the really huge price hikes begin.
In other words, not everyone has the same data as you do and not everyone responds to the data they do have the same as you do (or might).
WOW. Thanks for logging me out mid reply (was long).
Moral of the ENTIRE thing I wrote was. If people are not constantly directly dying from something, they will not complain about it.
They are both great conditions and when used in the right situations and can be game changing. IE: Shutting down a high burster with some weakness and chill. You will not hear the complaints because it would just sound silly. (“I am TIRED of someone putting weakness on me right before my big hits. Then some of my attacks only do 50% damage!?!! SO OP!!!!”) Lolz<<
Actually its a huge complaint.
Especially in games like league of legends. they have “exhaust” which slows them and makes their dmg do less.
Its a very specific counter to a specific playstlye, so when used properly its overly effective.
People in general tend to do things at the last minute.
This. A common worldview is there’s always more time until there’s no time left.
Its why people get extensions on taxes, crowd grocery stores the hour before a snowstorm, and the like.
Wait did you really just say last minute, on an impromptu 1 day sale?
Wow.
Main problems are:
1. Tells. Pindown, ripste and impale have big windups, obvious animations and large cooldowns. Even someone with half of brain can evade them if he have dodge button binded.
2. Lack of easy spammable trash condis to cover, unless you have decent crit and take vuln on crit talent.
3. Bleeds in decent numbers can be reliably applied only in melee.
tl;dr Engi atm is more reliable and much closer to faceroll-level.
1) havent had any issues with this TOO much. I mean as far is it goes, its easy to force a dodge and wait to use pindown. If i have to bluff, i’ll typically blow the triple arrow, or test them with the blinding arrow since that means im going to land pindown, and the cd isn’t a big deal since theyll be far away. After that im free to use the s/s 4, 2, force a riposte, then dodge and backoff to repeat a rotation with another blind arrow(which they’ll typically be in melee range), which then allows me to f1 stacks more bleeds+riposte again.
2)The build uses celestial and precision, and as a 3rd option sometimes i take FGJ, even without the build gets 39% crit, so that’s no problem there. Then you also have the bleed on crit trait which also increases dmg, so even when ranging autos are applying bleeds.
I also have poison and bleed on next hit/weapon swaps to keep the condi’s stacked which helps out greatly.
3) The only trouble i have with melle so far is when i get double slammed by a guard and warrior, or 2 cc heavy units. Most other people would have trouble in that situation too though, so thats not saying much.
Most of the warriors’c c abilities through hambow are predictable enough to blind/dodge em.
Keep in mind this is not a pure ranged or pure melee build. Its mixed.
Been testing out a sword/sword+ longbow Condi warrior.
Seems to do pretty well. Even if you get cleanses, i run poision/bleed on weapon swap for the sets, so theres always new stacks.
The swords torment and riposte combo is pretty dealdly, and locking a bleeding target into the LB immobilize+burst can hold down a point well.
It feels like it excels with a duo, and definitely helps off in teamfights as you apply multiple condis to enemies.
Curious what others experience with it is
When the pvp community gets big enough, then I would agree. But it isn’t, so no.
Impliments like these are likely to make the community smaller. The only outcome I can see from this implementation is frustration. Infact, if there were a more organized que system, it might even bring outsiders in. In regards to the whole “scatter the player base” concept, I’ll have to retort by saying that there will be people who are interested in all game modes. I’m sure those people would rather wait a few minutes more to get in the game type they enjoy, than play a game type that frustrates them.
Will there be enough of them to keep each game type afloat and ensure that matches are good?
I got stuck in 7 of these. within 10 games.
the number of players has nothing to do with HOW GOOD the matches will be.
Every match except one, my team got stomped.
Its a completely different mentality, and its so 1 sided its not even funny. There’s no tug or pull due to the map geography, and the way you have to spawn. Its typically whoever wins the first fight wins the game.
If you die, then the enemy has the advatange, then they can rebuff and overpower the rest of the forces, and while you;re rezzing they are powering up.
This isn’t like KOTH or CTF where you are far away, and separated. Its a giant clusterkitten that requires a lot from a team to do well.
People can’t even stay to defend a point in normal matches, and you want random people to do good in a game mode that requires MORE effort, more teamwork, and a better knowledge of the game?
Solo q annoys me sometimes because it seems more than 50 percent of the people joining are builds that could never hold a point if their life depended on it. Example thieves or mesmers.
Then there is team q. I wont play it anymore. It really only matters which team brings more engi’s. Plus everybody plays all the super cheesy builds.
You get players that try to defend points?
God if i could get 75% of my teams to just defend one kitten point i think pvp would be so much easier.
I can’t count the number of times I am left behind as the Shoutbow suppport trying to make sure it doesn’t get ninjaed, and calling out incomins for my team.
The second i leave, it gets ninjaed and people whine for “not defending points”.
IM THE SUPPORT.
I have another s/s condi/power mix build for warriors the focuses on dmg+burn, bleeds and cc which works pretty well.
It can 1v1 most cases, but definitely excels in aggressive or group play where there is someone else who can keep the enemy running around or be a secondary target.
Often times im still left on D, instead of being a valuable resource on O.
There seriously needs to be a tutorial or something before people are allowed to play normally.
The whole just jumping right in clueless thing doesn’t help other players like pvp, and ruins it for the losing team(unless you’re typically one of those players who’s just there to “enjoy” pvp)
I can;t count the number of times i get downed, and some tank or someone else who does no dmg, instead of helping me, continuously tries to kill the enemy player tickling him to death, instead of getting me up so i can help him with a number advantage.
I was under the assumption that they were always 5tickets, so it seemed off from all the other units.
The newest black lion skins always cost 1 ticket. The price gets raised only after new skin set takes their place. Most of the skins on tp come from people buying skins in that short period and keeping them until the cost gets high enough.
Ah so all the original skins and stuff were all that price at one time.
Good thing i skipped out on the latest set, they had nothing special worth buying imo.
No cosmetic or animation or particle differences to set them apart.
And with the new ley line armor coming out.. crap. I might just have to go broke
So this might be an odd question, but ill give an example.
Currently there are only 4 leyline longbow skins out there.
There are TONS of the other skins which i find it hard to believe the leyline warhorn is more popular than the long bow.
It’s exactly because the warhorn is less popular that there are more skins of it available. Most of the leyline skins on TP come from the time they could be bought for 1 ticket. Seems the supply of longbow skins is running out.
Basically, you are unlikely to get a leyline skin now for significantly less than the sell price. Even if you were to find someone to spend their tickets for the skin and sell it for you, it’s unlikely to be cheaper. From a purely economical point of view, it should be much higher, actually (as buying new skins at 1 ticket apiece is a far better investment).
Ah well unfortunately, i just came in to the game ~1month ago, and i was unaware that they were “Cheaper” at some point.
That would change a lot then.
I was under the assumption that they were always 5tickets, so it seemed off from all the other units.
They’re pretty unpopular as it is…. hmm. 200g for a leyline longbow. Ill have to think about that
They’re so hard to match to anything, like no colorscheme works
If you want to have balanced matches …..
Take a look at the leaderboard. 6 ppl in the top 15(even #1) got <=50% win rate. how is that even posible ?!?!
How does the win rate reflect on the player’s ability? Isn’t % win rate a function of whether the matchmaking system is functioning well or not?
If the top ten players in the game are at the skill ceiling, they would have a roughly 50% win rating because they’d be playing equally skilled players.
Just like a complete newbie lumped in with a bunch of others would have a 50% win rating.
I suppose you could have someone with a crazy high win % up at the top if they were so much more skilled than any other player that they didn’t really have piers. But I keep hearing how this game has fairly shallow mechanics with a comparatively low skill ceiling. If that’s the case, then you would expect a large number of players to reach that skill ceiling, and settle into something very close to a 50%/50% win/loss.
This is exactly how it works. The only time a high ranked player would have a high win% is if they played a low number of games and performed very well, but over time these average out.
So far i don’t even see the point of ranked here, there’s nothing attached to it, you get the same rewards.
At least other games give rewards for top players, unless im wrong
… links:
http://www.lolking.net/leaderboards/#/na/1
http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/ladder/if it “awerages out” then the player gonna stuck into a mmr level, but top players allways gonna have high win %…
if you want some rewards for pvp ask for xxx gold/gem rewards for rank lvls instead of mini lama and stuff, also more frequently if posible, like weekly???
Edit: to make things clear for Gibson: lower bracket wins —> higher rank --> matchup with ppl with already higher rank —> they win --> you dropp back to your skill bracket + the played with a player from usually lower bracket not only with “each other” —> bigger win% for them.
Still wrong. You;re taking LoL statistics from the start of a new season. S5 JUST STARTED not too long ago. Challenger players often hit 1400-200+ games or more by the end of the season, and most of them barely have 200-300 in.
I applaud you for trying, but make sure you gather ALL the evidence before stating something pointblank.
ALSO your HON link also proves you WRONG
Half of their win losses are at 50% and UNDER
So this might be an odd question, but ill give an example.
Currently there are only 4 leyline longbow skins out there.
There are TONS of the other skins which i find it hard to believe the leyline warhorn is more popular than the long bow.
Because of this, the skin is now over 200g, but definitely is not comparable in value to the other skins all ~100g or half that or less.
What i want to know is how do I make a trade for an item like that, if someone has the tickets to get the skin?
Is there a way to do that legitimately through TP? Like could i put in a buy order for an item at x price, tell that guy which one it was, and he could sell it to me for that buy order?
Im curious about that because there are some items that i like that are unpopular, but overpriced due to it. If i find someone wanting to make some gold and sell me the skin at the same time, i need a way to do so.’
Having the person list it under what its currently at(if they’re not selling) does no good either.
Has anyone also done this for others? I am curious, thanks!
why can’t the solution just be to allow mix n matching from outfits.
Also, the argument of “premades vs pugs is rare” is a weak argument. Yes, the individual pug player may not experience a premade-vs-pugs scenario frequently, but that premade team will go on to continue steamrolling other pugs and spread more negative experiences to more players. That individual premade may go on to give hundreds of players negative pvp experiences.
This isn’t any different than a bad pugger going on to give a negative experience to hundreds of games. It’s not particular to premades.
If you want to have balanced matches …..
Take a look at the leaderboard. 6 ppl in the top 15(even #1) got <=50% win rate. how is that even posible ?!?!
How does the win rate reflect on the player’s ability? Isn’t % win rate a function of whether the matchmaking system is functioning well or not?
If the top ten players in the game are at the skill ceiling, they would have a roughly 50% win rating because they’d be playing equally skilled players.
Just like a complete newbie lumped in with a bunch of others would have a 50% win rating.
I suppose you could have someone with a crazy high win % up at the top if they were so much more skilled than any other player that they didn’t really have piers. But I keep hearing how this game has fairly shallow mechanics with a comparatively low skill ceiling. If that’s the case, then you would expect a large number of players to reach that skill ceiling, and settle into something very close to a 50%/50% win/loss.
This is exactly how it works. The only time a high ranked player would have a high win% is if they played a low number of games and performed very well, but over time these average out.
So far i don’t even see the point of ranked here, there’s nothing attached to it, you get the same rewards.
At least other games give rewards for top players, unless im wrong
Oh Whoops of Warcraft .. Well there’s an original idea !!
Yea.. A dead class for Tyria too ..
Are you seriously insinuating game developers have to come up with a class thats NEVER been though of before?
GOOD LUCK.
Unless you’re literally a Living pile of poo in an armor suit, its probably been in another game.
Stop trying to bash the game for simple things
And dealing with the rocket turret first would have greatly helped. Something that you didn’t seem to do (and that turret would have been annihilated by that combo, by the way).
Instead, you rush into the point with a glass cannon build, inside the range of all the turrets, try to take down the tankiest turret (the only close range one of the lot, by the way)…and then complain that you died. Frankly speaking, you deserved it. That’s, like, the perfect example of what someone shouldn’t do in such a situation. You were playing completely onto the engineer’s hand. Even if he wasn’t there.The most common turret placement is:
1) Thumper turret dead center on a point. The knockback can remove most players trying to cap the point.
2) Flame Turret on the side of the point (just within range of anyone trying to cap, but outside of aoe range).
3) Rocket turret off point, in a hard to reach place. On a cliff, in mid air, etc. It has 1000 range and an aoe knockback attack, so it can hit the entire point from quite a distance.With this placement, you don’t even need the self-repairing and metal plating traits. I rarely use those traits since my turrets don’t get killed enough to warrant them. Players get a few choices:
1)Try to snipe rocket turret (which has 7.5k base hp, is immune to crits and condi damage), as you suggest, and waste quite a bit of time not decapping the point while I’m helping my team fight 5v4 on the rest of the map.
2) Try to decap the point, and get knocked back by thumper turret + rocket turret and eat a bunch of damage and get nice and softened for when me or my allies come to defend the point after we’ve crushed the team 5v4 on the rest of the map.
3) Go look for me somewhere on the map where I am assisting in the team fight, where I still have my supply crate, tanky build, and plenty of CC (immob + knockback) with rifle. If we’re not winning the team fight, I just blow up my off-site turrets and use the tool belt skills for the extra utility + dps (all of which are quite strong). Being without my turrets does not make me a “free kill” and if other engis are feeling that way, they need to L2P.
i’m glad someone admitted it. I don’t feel they need to be nerfed into the ground, But a few tweaks wouldn’t hurt.
I think the biggest point you made was the ability to hold a point and keep people off it. If i try to range you down, that’s just more time wasted not capping the point as well, which your allies might be coming to assist as well.
They could just disable ranked off-season. Everyone gets put in unranked —> better queues, better matches?
Only if they disable the really annoying maps (Skyhammer, Courtyard) on unranked.
Can’t have it all. ^^
i love skyhammer. I don’t get why people hate it so much really.
The only time i got annoyed with it when was i got consistently feared by a horrible necro off the edge.
He completely didnt have a clue how to play, and we demolished their team, but i probably spent a good 25% of that game dead, and there wasn’t too much i could do about chain fear.
Getting feared into one of the platform holes would be ok, but being feared off the edge is not for me.
He’s not unstoppable defending the point. There are many counters, as explained. It just takes some actual brain to fight rather than going in, picking your 1 target and smashing your usual rotation. The brain power isn’t even that extensive… Kill the rocket, avoid the thumper as much as possible while still attacking. If you see it glow you know he’s using the knockback on it get ready to move or pop stability if you have it.
Their weaknesses though are glaring. Not only are they immobile in the sense that rotations for them is hard, if you get caught off point you’re screwed. You either set up and try to live but have nothing once that fight is over, take a dash for the point and end up getting there close to death and with a poor set up, or die before being able to do either of the above. Thieves LOVE them some off-base turreteers. If they’re on point, send someone else or 1 other guy and you’ll have it in no time since their more on cc and mitigation they themselves can go down relatively quickly if you lock them up.
I’ve done all that. Then he just drops another turret set and you’re stuck playing whack a mole to drop all his turrets. then he’s still healing the whole time.
Thiefs are also pure dmg, with cc, and high mobility, so your solution is basically a zerker+ another person.
That’s not viable, that just using an overpower method. That’s a counter to a point and anyone solo defending a point, not specifically a turret engineer. only in most cases i can 1v1 or 1v2 with no issues.
You can in most cases 1v1 and 1v2 with no issues, sounds like you’re the OP one. Its fine to have counters buddy. I’d say turrets do a decent job counters glass thieves in a 1v1 situation if they’re already set up and the thief is too risky. But I don’t really see the problem with that.
inexperienced players who have little pvp experience in any mmo flinging their glass cannon body’s at me isn’t op. I can’t count the number of zerkers who show up and get smashed because they have 0 defense or utility.
In that case not only am i outbuilding, i am outexperiencing them.
Playing the afk engineer doesn’t require much experience at all, and gives a false skill boost like others have said.
He’s not unstoppable defending the point. There are many counters, as explained. It just takes some actual brain to fight rather than going in, picking your 1 target and smashing your usual rotation. The brain power isn’t even that extensive… Kill the rocket, avoid the thumper as much as possible while still attacking. If you see it glow you know he’s using the knockback on it get ready to move or pop stability if you have it.
Their weaknesses though are glaring. Not only are they immobile in the sense that rotations for them is hard, if you get caught off point you’re screwed. You either set up and try to live but have nothing once that fight is over, take a dash for the point and end up getting there close to death and with a poor set up, or die before being able to do either of the above. Thieves LOVE them some off-base turreteers. If they’re on point, send someone else or 1 other guy and you’ll have it in no time since their more on cc and mitigation they themselves can go down relatively quickly if you lock them up.
I’ve done all that. Then he just drops another turret set and you’re stuck playing whack a mole to drop all his turrets. then he’s still healing the whole time.
Thiefs are also pure dmg, with cc, and high mobility, so your solution is basically a zerker+ another person.
That’s not viable, that just using an overpower method. That’s a counter to a point and anyone solo defending a point, not specifically a turret engineer. only in most cases i can 1v1 or 1v2 with no issues.
Not enough build variety. Realizing there is only one best build for each class makes me feel like I have nothing unique to do; so I quit for a while till I forget the builds I was using while praying for an expansion, change, or creative new game.
That’s only true in tournament. On average/good level, you can do just fine with less optimal builds. Why don’t you give a try to something original once and see how it goes?
True story. Did this In LoL where their soloq is vastly similar.
Until you get to highest levels of play, nothing really matters, as long as you’re a competent player.
Took adc ahri, and ap yasuo and ap hec to gold for giggles. Won’t fly in high plat/diamond, but it still worked to be in a rank better than 90% of the playerbase.
also all those complaining about ranked, soloq is a mentality. You cant change other players. Climbing soloq in any competitive game is about learning how to be a better player and advancing. YOU are the only variable you can change with 100% certainty.
(edited by edgarallanpwn.8739)
Full berserker warrior, 10 stacks of might, over 2500 power: Unattended turrets easily live through a full 100b + whirlwind + arcing slice + arcing arrow combo (tons of aoe damage) while doing over 10k damage to the warrior and interrupting/knocking him back (thumper + rocket turret ftw, right?). Don’t believe me? Go try it out vs a traited turret engi. The same applies to thieves and all condition specs (since turrets are immune to conditions). Anyone who thinks it makes sense for a passive build (you can literally afk) to counter 2/3 types of builds (condi & berserker). If you want to capture the point, you somehow have to live long enough or kill the turrets.
And dealing with the rocket turret first would have greatly helped. Something that you didn’t seem to do (and that turret would have been annihilated by that combo, by the way).
Instead, you rush into the point with a glass cannon build, inside the range of all the turrets and the engineer itself, try to take down the tankiest turret (the only close range one of the lot, by the way)…and then complain that you died. Frankly speaking, you deserved it. That’s, like, the perfect example of what someone shouldn’t do in such a situation. You were playing completely onto the engineer’s hand.If you manage to blow up some turrets, they explode and knockback + damage you for quite a bit too. I used to run a build entirely around exploding turrets because the knockback + damage is quite significant (and the lovely blast finishers are great). The tool belt skills more than compensate for having your turrets on cooldown after blowing them up.
Yeah, but that’s another trait (and i’ve just tested it, around 1500 damage with soldier amulet versus a light golem – not bad at all, but it still requires to detonate or have a turret killed, after all; albeit, the detonation activation will be likely done only with the healing one (it would be a waste with the others, as the toolbelts aren’t that good as you make them seem and there are the cooldowns to take care for; better wait until they’re killed).
You can sit off point and plunk away at the turrets with a bow, wasting (literally) 2-3 minutes while your team is fighting 4v5 on the rest of the map. Doing this WILL make your team lose, so it’s not a viable strategy. The only real solution is to rush the point with 2-3 players, at which point you’re leaving the rest of the map undefended in a 2v5. Turrets allow engis to hold a point without being physically there. That is a serious problem.
To refresh people’s memory: The community was in a huge uproar over ranger pets being able to go to a nearby point (effectively allowing rangers to guard two points at once). Ranger pets can at least be killed rather quickly. This was promptly fixed with the leash range on pets getting reduced so they couldn’t do that anymore.
Guess what, pets also move. Turret can’t. Or shall we move the ground along with them?
Of course they stay there – they are turrets. They can’t move. Comparing them with something that can move – any other minion/pet/whatever ai in the game – makes no sense.
And as i’ve already said above…if the engineer isn’t on point, then he’s somewhere else with only his rifle available. And no way to properly use his overcharges, as he hasn’t got any idea of what is going on. And if the engineer dies, the turrets do as well. An engineer that does so is putting himself (and the point) at risk.
And if you don’t give him the time to go to the point and set himself up, all he can do is either waste the turrets in some alley (he can’t setup himself before the cooldowns are up again) or fight with his rifle and little else (and probably lose in doing so, as without turrets it can’t do much at all).
So if he’s not defending a point, he’s worthless.
If he’s defending a point, he’s unstoppable.
That’s unhealthy gameplay. You don’t want 2 extremes, you want equal grounds as much as possible.
Right there, in everything you stated, forces them to bunker, and if they can’t then there’s not much else for them to do. its a 1 trick pony. That trick just being very effective.
Also if you’re saying “melt” you’re obviously not doing a typical hambow build which is tanky with some power.
You might be referring to a full powerhouse zerk hambow build, in which case then its all or nothing, as he doesn’t have as much time to survive.
Or Celestial, which is very commonly used right now and does just fine at melting those engies.
Really, just celestial longbow is all you need as a Warrior, and funnily enough, that’s the meta build.
Is it? everything i read stated it was on soldiers for “tanky bruiser” Why is celestial better? It feels like the stats would be split too much to really be more beneficial. Plus the sigils on hammer is designed for soldiers stats lack of crit.
If it really makes that much of a difference, im using soldiers now, as it allows me to 1v1, and often 1v2 or sometimes 1v3 with rampage long enough for my team to come assist and defend a point.
If its that big of a change, ill give it a try tonight and focus on specifically turret eng and report back after a little theorycrafting and testing.
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Warriors have Longbow. Arcing Shot hits hard AoE and Pin Down+ burst skill melt engies pretty quick.
Warriors also have hammer. The turrets might be immune to the CC, but the massive AoE it provides lets you nail the engineer anyway.
Funnily enough, both of these were popular together and one still is a staple for PvP builds. The old triple-stance Hambow build did fantastically at killing turret engies. Still does just fine against them.
Guardian (the “other” melee profession) can mostly counter turret engineer with Wall of Reflection.
you don’t just “range down” an engineer. Most of the longbows abilities are on high cd. After that the end will just heal.
Even if you get in there and smash his turrets, he can just drop new ones, while dotting you up.
Even with condition removal its still a pain in the kitten , and a good engineer won’t lose that fight.
I completely GET the fact that the turrets downside is that it in fact is very stationary and immobile, and you’re free to go 5v4 other points.. the problem is in that sense…
I can’t think of another profession currently that can guarantee a point as easily as turret eng
unless you go waste resources to try to take the turret engs bunkered point, they will have 1 point guaranteed
Also if you’re saying “melt” you’re obviously not doing a typical hambow build which is tanky with some power.
You might be referring to a full powerhouse zerk hambow build, in which case then its all or nothing, as he doesn’t have as much time to survive.
I’ve been using the tankier/cond removal and dmg red with rampage to hold down points 1v2 and 1v3, but ill give a zerk hambow a go tonight and see how it differs vs eng.
Full berserker warrior, 10 stacks of might, over 2500 power: Unattended turrets easily live through a full 100b + whirlwind + arcing slice + arcing arrow combo (tons of aoe damage) while doing over 10k damage to the warrior and interrupting/knocking him back (thumper + rocket turret ftw, right?). Don’t believe me? Go try it out vs a traited turret engi. The same applies to thieves and all condition specs (since turrets are immune to conditions). Anyone who thinks it makes sense for a passive build (you can literally afk) to counter 2/3 types of builds (condi & berserker). If you want to capture the point, you somehow have to live long enough or kill the turrets.
If you manage to blow up some turrets, they explode and knockback + damage you for quite a bit too. I used to run a build entirely around exploding turrets because the knockback + damage is quite significant (and the lovely blast finishers are great). The tool belt skills more than compensate for having your turrets on cooldown after blowing them up.
You can sit off point and plunk away at the turrets with a bow, wasting (literally) 2-3 minutes while your team is fighting 4v5 on the rest of the map. Doing this WILL make your team lose, so it’s not a viable strategy. The only real solution is to rush the point with 2-3 players, at which point you’re leaving the rest of the map undefended in a 2v5. Turrets allow engis to hold a point without being physically there. That is a serious problem.
To refresh people’s memory: The community was in a huge uproar over ranger pets being able to go to a nearby point (effectively allowing rangers to guard two points at once). Ranger pets can at least be killed rather quickly. This was promptly fixed with the leash range on pets getting reduced so they couldn’t do that anymore.
This is exactly the problem. and then he will often just put them back up.
I think we need some people who actually play eng to acknowledge that this is a problem. I know people want to have their roflstomp builds but, there’s got to be a stopping point.
even if there are “counters” you have to hope theres a counter in the game. Its not like counters with other professions, where you just have to change your playstyle.
on top of that if i try to d a point, often youll get yelled at for “afk” although i killed 4-5 people alone 1v2.
Eng goes afk, nobody cares. Hey free point.
You can kill a turret engineer with 2 people, which is pretty standard to use 2 players to take a node, that’s not unique to turret engineers. Secondly, for whatever reason you decided to take the critical route and send 3 people, you some how ended up 2v5 on the rest of the board? They have 6 players? Exaggerations get us no where.
Not true, often i can go 1v1 or 1v2, or watch and wait to ninja points all the time.
(edited by edgarallanpwn.8739)
Turret engineers are something I can’t kill in PvP, but I know the reason why. It’s not because they are OP, and it’s not because I’m terrible (though I don’t claim to be great). It’s because they counter my build.
I play a melee power/spectral necro, and Turret Engineer happens to perfectly counter that. I frequently run into a build that I simply cannot win against, and I don’t complain about it one bit. I recognize that changing my build to use wells would give me an edge, as would swapping to Axe. Swapping to a condi build would let me eat that engineer alive as well. I can counter them easily with changes to my build, but I consciously choose not to make those changes in favor of other matchups.
Everyone has those options. Would be nice if people recognized that.
The problem is that, you have that ability built in.
Not all professions get to do that.
I’m a warrior, and there’s no way im going to range down a turret eng. I must then use multiple forces just to deal with 1 guy who can effectively 1v2 easily.
What if by odd chance we end up with no range?
I’m all akin for losing, getting stomped, or outplayed.
But there needs to be SOME counterplay for melee classes too.
It’s not about that, its about a level playing field, and completely blocking 1 fighting type is too much. There’s melle, and there’s ranged. Ruling out 50% of builds ineffective is broken.
And saying “overpower” isn’t a solution either.
I am asking, pleading, begging you Devs to stand your ground once more.
Do not give in! Let us not reduce further the build diversity in this game; let us send a clear, definitive message to the Vocal minority, the message being : Learn To Play.They need to learn how to adapt to the ever changing environment, they need to learn how to change: tactics, playstyle and even profession if necessary.
Less nerfing and more buffing pls, many builds make the game fun as people can try and play different things, few builds make the game boring and stagnant.
Let us all remember that : *creativity, adaptability, humbleness are what divide the good from the bad. *
Cheers
There’s on big problem with that.
I have no problem with variance, or off meta builds or any of that.
What i have a problem with is a not so skilled engineer, winning against other builds of higher skilled players, just because of the way it works.
You can HAVE your turret engineer build. Nobody’s going to remove turret eng.
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t need to be tweaked.
I am curious how we are supposed to adapt to a build that practically lets you afk in any defensible position, heal yourself to full, and deal enough dmg to kill anyone.
It doesn’t matter how viable or bla bla your turret build is, if theres no counterplay, or less counterplay compared to other builds, and bridges the skill gap with no effort required, then it needs to be adjusted.
The fact i have to blow through 2 turrets, and 2 healing turrets before i can even get to you, and then you can just recast them after? I just don’t even.
It takes too much to fight a turret eng, and 1v1, turret eng will most times win out.
And that’s not fair gameplay.
Out of everyone i’ve played against, turret eng has to be the worst.
I don’t mind being outskilled. I don’t mind getting stomped. What i don’t like is being helpless against a class, esp a turret engineer, who cannot dodge a single skillshot or ability to save his life, but can still eventually beat me due to his kit
(edited by edgarallanpwn.8739)
Zaruna, I’m not saying you’re wrong, but there are already countless threads about the whole “solo vs premade” complain, and all of those in which Justin checked the match history showed a HUGE difference between the player’s subjective experience and the actual match-making data. It’s been a horrible couple of weeks for premades, because the devs listened to these (mostly) unfounded complains, which Justin just stated was probably a mistake.
On Friday I lowered the inflated MMR parties receive from +5% per member to +2% per member. I believe the initial value of +5% was too high, and we were aiming to overshoot due to the bad perception of solo vs pre-made. The drop to 2% was based on data from the beta ladder.
Sometimes, good players tend to be so organized it looks like they teamed up, sometimes you are matched up with a 4-man party, and is it really difficult to imagine that sore losers would blame the MM to deny their own failure? I’m not at all saying it is what you have experienced, but a good portion of this kind of threads fall into that category. I hope they add a tool to see who teamed up with who in the end of the game, so that we finally get over this non-sense.
Idk. For the most part i haven’t had any issues. been going hardcore in unranked for the past 2 days. Havent seen but maybe 3 complete stomps, and that was just cause my team sucked. They weren’t as good, its w/e.
HOWEVER
I did run into a guild that group qued kitten too last night. It also looked like their eng was using macros too. We got completely stomped there was literally nothing we could do.
They were obv in skype or soemthing as the coordination was too good, and whenever i tried to ninja/make a play on one of the points magically 3 of them weren’t too far behind
They also all had the same guild tag.
The biggest turnoff about this game is the fact that you can buy anything in it for cash money by this gem/gold conversion.
That is pay to win, period.
Pay to win would be if those items were only available by cash.
Every single stat item is available in game.
At the loosest, this is pay2gofaster, which is a convenience. Aka pay for convenience as people have said.
Gear doesn’t even matter that much.
You can get full exotic for under 10g, of which i had over 100 by the time i hit 80 in 2weeks as a new player. I was also geared full exotic in less than a week too.
Next invalid point please.
waas this in practice or ranked/unranked?
unranked. Idc if people are new. But these people who ignore their team then act like kittencanoes after need to go.
are you sure he wasnt a bot? Did you see people attacking him and he kept running for the lord? I wont name names but i have killed people who didnt even put up a fight heading tot he lord.
he was talking to us.
I ended up in another game with him, where he intentionally died more, and called me “lord autism” lol
Everyone keeps saying “report him”, there’s no option to report someone for intentionally griefing in PVP.
Luckily he called me “lord autism” and “kitten” in map chat there.
Otherwise yeah i wouldnt know what to do
i’ve done the PvP Reward track and only got the gloves. The Track is now marked as completed and I cant reactivate it a second time.
So how do i complete my set?
I’m looking at that too. I think thats the only piece they make available through pvp AFAIK
You should follow this instruction:
1) Report him.
2) Stop being oversensitive.
3) ???
4) Profit.
You never have anyhting good to say.
1) i reported him
2) has nothing to do with being sensitive. I’m just curious how good user management from anet is
3) You seem to have a lot to say fill in the blanks
4) There’s no way to profit physically from this scenario.
That’s just a PvP community being a PvP community.
Eh purposefully ruining the game for his 4 teammates, and verbal abuse should warrant something no?
I PvP a ton, but that’s no need to use those insults and ruin the game for others. Sucking is 1 thing, ruining is another.
Pretty sure this is bannable, i would imagine.
Had some kid call me “Lord Autism” in an unranked pvp match, then proceeded to intentionally die all game, all because i told my teammates i could hold our home base, and that the guy trying to take it from me"sucked"
Said to my team, not the enemy, in team chat.
This is the same guy who tried to solo the keep boss all game, ignored his team, and said “im new, you guys take the game too seriously”.
We tried to help him, but he just wanted to do things alone in a team oriented mode.
Please don’t ignore your team.
Some dude trying to solo the base boss when we had no points up. We told him we need to capture these points before we could do it but we needed his help. Ignored us and kept going for the boss solo.
Complained the he was “new” and that we were taking the game seriously.
Look i’m glad to help out people, glad to share knowledge and teach people as well as learn….but…
Being new does not automatically give you the right to ignore your teammates. It’s a team game. You’re more than welcome to do so, but that gets nobody anywhere.
If we tell you what you’re doing isn’t a smart move and ask for your help elsewhere, maybe you should go there because there might be a goal we are trying to accomplish.
This mechanic pays for the game your playing.
Odd since I paid for the game. Try to remember this isn’t FTP.
GW1 had box sales and no cash to gold.
GW2 was to survive on gems and have no expansions now however we’re getting box sales plus gems.
Never tell me someone else’s money is paying for my playtime as I’ve paid my own way.
Other peoples money are playing for your content updates and everything else new that comes your way.
But nice try.
My only question – what is the NPE folks keep mentioning?
you are new, you are better off not knowing about npe
LOL. OK. I guess what I don’t know won’t hurt me. But my overall point is that I have found levelling enjoyable and pleasant, and very non-grindy (the only aspect I tried that I didn’t like was crafting).
If it was even better before something (NPE?) then I am jealous.
I think there are a lot of new folk like me who came in with the $10 special.
It was better before NPE. It was better before the megaserver, for high population servers, anyway. It was better before every critter under 80 has been nerfed because of the trait changes.
Google “new player experience gw2”, because I’m too bitter to get into this topic. One example, beforehand you didn’t dance for the cows in Queensdale. You fed them. However, your brain could not stand the strain of picking up the bundle and giving it to the cow. Therefore now you dance for them. Because kitten logic and everything you love.
Are you really complaining about logic in a fantasy game? I lol’d really hard, thanks for the laugh.
Why are we even caring about stupid post like that?
because the post is actually about a legitimate issue, even if the solution isnt feasible. This is a line anet has to walk carefully, and try to come up with a balance that works.
It doesn’t make the game P2W and only add revenue to the devs. I see it more like a win-win-win for every one : People who want to pay RL cash for IG gold are pleased, devs and compagny get paid, people who don’t want to spend RL money have a way to get gems for store items by only playing the game (aka earning gold and trading it for gems).
So tell me again what issue is there?
first of all, i see people dont really get the OP, hes actually on you anti p2w guys side. He made his suggestion as a means of shutting up the p2w debate once and for all. Or at least thats the side he presented.
The system definately has advantages, i know a couple friends who would not play for a signifigant amount of time if they had to pay a subscription.
However, i think its foolish to ignore the issue. Its something you have to monitor and adjust, its not going to be 100% ok or 100% bad. This system is like consuming alchohol, you have to monitor it, and control it, or else it can end up being a bad experience.
Its not a question of whether pay for in game things is 100% bad or 100% good, its about how to manage pay for in game so that it creates the best balance of gains versus losses.
But really, why would we care about P2W complainer? They are wrong and shame on them if they don’t see it, even after all the talk there has been on the subject.
because they arent wrong, they have a different opinion. There is no shame on them. There is no objective right answer on whether selling in game objectives/things is good.
If you want to develop a good system for most people, you have to realize you dont have a simple truth, you have a complex interaction
except that everyone is talking about p2w in a sense that is NOT p2w that is stereotypical, the majority, nor the natural stigma of the phrase in any way. People are trying to make and argument of p2w when its simply not. Its pay2lookfancier or pay2wear.
getting caught up on the definition of the word, doesnt really change the point people were making.
Its fine to point out a difference in the perception of a slang word, but its not really condusive to discussion to continue to argue over its meaning once you understand what the person was actually saying.
Using a term properly, and conveying the proper connotations, as well as debate will help your audience better try to see your viewpoint. If you just throw out big attention words like p2w while using them properly, often enough people will just dismiss it, like most are saying to ignore op.
Why are we even caring about stupid post like that?
because the post is actually about a legitimate issue, even if the solution isnt feasible. This is a line anet has to walk carefully, and try to come up with a balance that works.
It doesn’t make the game P2W and only add revenue to the devs. I see it more like a win-win-win for every one : People who want to pay RL cash for IG gold are pleased, devs and compagny get paid, people who don’t want to spend RL money have a way to get gems for store items by only playing the game (aka earning gold and trading it for gems).
So tell me again what issue is there?
first of all, i see people dont really get the OP, hes actually on you anti p2w guys side. He made his suggestion as a means of shutting up the p2w debate once and for all. Or at least thats the side he presented.
The system definately has advantages, i know a couple friends who would not play for a signifigant amount of time if they had to pay a subscription.
However, i think its foolish to ignore the issue. Its something you have to monitor and adjust, its not going to be 100% ok or 100% bad. This system is like consuming alchohol, you have to monitor it, and control it, or else it can end up being a bad experience.
Its not a question of whether pay for in game things is 100% bad or 100% good, its about how to manage pay for in game so that it creates the best balance of gains versus losses.
But really, why would we care about P2W complainer? They are wrong and shame on them if they don’t see it, even after all the talk there has been on the subject.
because they arent wrong, they have a different opinion. There is no shame on them. There is no objective right answer on whether selling in game objectives/things is good.
If you want to develop a good system for most people, you have to realize you dont have a simple truth, you have a complex interaction
except that everyone is talking about p2w in a sense that is NOT p2w that is stereotypical, the majority, nor the natural stigma of the phrase in any way. People are trying to make and argument of p2w when its simply not. Its pay2lookfancier or pay2wear.