1. Stability & skill balance
2. Fix or revert DBL
3. Rewards
4. Population balance
5. ScoringYes, we will take the feedback and make stability, general skill balance, and fixing/reverting DBL our top priorities. We’re not currently working on scoring and that has to be a longer-term project.
Karl is working specifically on WvW-focused skill balance. He’s looking for the wins for WvW that don’t screw the rest of the game.
We’re investigating whether to fix or revert DBL. They’re both a lot of work. These next couple days will be your last chance to give feedback before we make a decision, so speak now or forever hold your peace.
Thanks for the post. A few comments to help you understand what players want out of those points you listed.
1. Stability & skill balance, this largely have to do with how stale pirateship meta has become post-stability changes. While some guilds have been trying to break the meta by going nomad frontline (this is boring as well), there’s still too much cc’s and ranged bombing. We see less melee characters being played because people don’t want to be free loot bags. There are way too many cc’s and skills that strip stability for melees to have fun. Skills you should look into tweaking:
-Hunter’s Ward – This skill is a 6 second jail trap that strips ungodly amount of stability. It’s invisible so you can’t see it, so you have no idea if you’re trapped in it until you try to move and get knocked back. Every time you run into it, your stab is gone, and you get knocked down, causing your skills to go on cooldown…which often leads to deaths. This skill needs to be visible so we know when it’s up and when it’s down, and it should not strip stab the way it does right now.
-Banners – there are enough cc’s, aoe’s, and knockbacks in the game. We really didn’t need more knockbacks that again, further strips stability. Every guild claiming banners have some sort of aoe knockback/knockdown. Plus banners are just not needed, they throw any and all balance out of whack. Even more so when you are facing enemies with greater numbers using 3-5x more banners, making the fights go from hard to impossible.
-Shield Generators – did these things really need that aoe knockback (Force Ball)? Again, over the top. Shield generators should’ve been used to shield players & siege assets from projectiles. It did not need the knockback that again messes with stability.
-Chilling fog, one of the most annoying ideas ever implemented. Iron Hide, over the top, not needed when Lords are already ridiculously scaled up, especially given Desert BL Lords have super annoying abilities (more knockbacks, knockdowns, aoe fear, unlimited target Hunter’s Ward, etc). Airstrikes that bomb you for lots of damage while knocking you around? Over…the…top.
2. Alpine vs Desert BL’s. Alpine BL’s had a flow to its design, from camps, to towers, to keeps. Desert BL’s just seem mashed together, no rhyme and reason for how or why things are. Going back to Alpine is likely the easier route for you, because Desert BL’s are just that bad. Read below for why.
-Alpine BL towers provided strategic values. Taking NE/NW towers meant you could treb the garrison, or setup camp for a long endurance siege. Taking SW tower meant you could treb Bay. Defending the towers meant one less place your attackers could retreat into, and one less place your attackers could treb from. People attacked & defended towers because they gave strategic advantages. They were also great at drawing fights.
-Desert BL towers do nothing, they mean nothing. Not only are they too far for defenders to defend, they are not worth defending because they give no strategic importance. Towers are just farmed by ktrainers anymore.
-Alpine BL keeps gave you plenty of room to fight once you break through outer. The courtyards inside are large, plenty of room for you to maneuver and have some great battles. The garrison was multi-layered, but in a sensible manner. It allowed attackers & defenders room to move around, reset fights, regroup, setup siege, de-siege, etc.. There were some really epic battles in Bay, Hills, and Garrison…battles that have not been seen since HoT expansion.
-Desert BL keeps are too much about chokes, every corner you turn is a choke point. Not much room for fights, such a waste of space really. Not only do you have to worry about gimmicks like lava, cliffs, rock walls, or overpowered lords, you have to stand in siege infested chokes…all the while trying to maneuver with chilling fog on you. Does that even sound like fun to anybody?
-Alpine BL, building a waypoint meant something. It took time, took effort from players to defend and supply up. When you had a waypoint, you knew fights were coming. Especially so if you could waypoint an enemy Bay/Hills, then the fights became epic. Sometimes a commander logs in with a goal to break a waypoint because it’d be achieving something strategically, since letting your enemies have a waypoint on your BL meant they could setup Garrison siege easier. Plus it was always action packed & fun to fight over a waypoint.
-Desert BL, what’s the point of giving enemy waypoints on a freshly capped air/fire keep? Having waypoints up all the time means nobody give a crap, so no guaranteed fights. Some things just make no sense on the Desert BL’s.
-Alpine terrain, lots of flat areas for people to fight for both fun and strategic importance. The flat areas between NE/NW towers and Garrison have seen tons of battles. People often took the towers to taunt defenders, and they fought hours there just for fun. But not only that, they fought there because winners likely get to have an advantage. If defenders win, they probably could recap the NE/NW tower. If attackers win, they likely could setup siege on the Garrison. There was a flow and reason for fighting and winning every spot on the Alpine map. The flat areas around Bay? Winning that spot as defenders mean you likely got the supply camp and spawn tower. Losing means the enemy gets the supply camp and have the supplies to setup siege on Bay.
-Desert BL terrain, chokes, cliffs, canyons, lava, roads that are filled with rock walls that serve absolutely no purpose other than take up space and annoying players. Cripple fields and invis fog are all just gimmicks that disrupt player vs player combat. There aren’t many good spots to fight zerg vs zerg. And while yes there are some flat desert dunes you could fight on, they serve no strategic purpose. It’s why people don’t bother fighting over those open areas. You can’t just design a flat area out in middle of nowhere and say “there, that’s what you asked for, go fight there”. It doesn’t work that way.
3. Rewards, something similar to PvP reward tracks would do just fine. One difference is in WvW we use siege, lots of it. Players would love more WvW exclusive skins for siege, armor, weapons, guild related items, etc.. Guild & Server pride is a big thing in WvW, so use your imaginations to what players may like.
4. Population balance is bad and will only get worse. You can’t trust players to “balance” things out because gamers are fickle. Majority of the gamers will choose the easy way out and get rewarded, rather than pick the hard road and chance at not getting rewarded. This is why server stacking occurs, and why the servers doing well usually continue to do well, while other servers fade away slowly. An alliance/battlegroup system is needed in the near future so guilds stop breaking up, as many guilds right now have no player pool to recruit from. It also is extremely stale to fight the same server every single week for months and months. WoW has a decent battlegroup system, where your server name still displays on your name tag, but you fight in a battlegroup with other servers. Battlegroups will allow you easier balancing as you can swap servers around to balance things out if one side becomes too populated, have too much coverage, or win too much.
Population is not ever going to get back up to what it was a year or two ago. So moving forward, an alliance/battlegroup system is needed no matter how much people want to fight it. The situation is dire at the moment. And population balance has everything to do with the scoring system.
5. Scoring, ppt has to go, or its effect needs to be greatly diminished. PPT is the reason for coverage issues, the cause for server stacking. The need to ppt is also one of the main causes for server drama, it’s responsible for breaking up tons of guilds over the past years. Lastly ppt creates boring ktrains and pvdoors, it makes some people avoid fights. It’s not a healthy design, it can’t be sustained. PPT alone is responsible for some servers giving up on a whole week by Monday because one server in their match up is already too far ahead.
If ppt must continue to be used, there needs to be a system where the leading server gains less ppt than the losing server. You could also place a cap on the amount of ppt you can gain each hour. So even if you dominate 3 maps, you could only gain so much ppt. After awhile you still have to go out and fight player vs player battles to win ppk. The core of the WvW gameplay needs to be player vs player combat. You can’t sustain this game mode by making people ktrain & backcap. Most people come out to WvW because they want large scale player vs player combat. People are not doing WvW just so they could be challenged by PvE lords, gates, and walls.
A lot of things won’t get better unless you change scoring and ppt. So this isn’t as low on the list as you may think. But bottom line is, everything listed is important. It kind of shows you how bad the state of WvW is at the moment. It’s hard to just focus on one thing because you really need to do them all. WvW needed a revamp, players thought they were getting that with HoT expansion, but WvW got worse with HoT.