Guild Wars 2

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

you need to do two things when fighting a condi build: manage your condis & kill them.
you will always run put of clears, so cc them & damage them so they cant apply any more.

i can beat burn builds on engi or warrior easy, dont play much else but its all about running condi clear & using it well. all my breakdowns at the END OF THE MATCH for damage taken will have condi damage as about half of power damage revived. of course, often i dont die all game so idk maybe i have a magic wizard power against condis.

So carrion condition Engineer and a cleric shout Warrior according to your signature. One’s part of this thread and the other is probably the build with most condition removal available besides a Necromancer.

shout warrior also removes condis for the whole team. so it makes dealing with condis easier for everyone. ive nuterd condi so many burn guardians with it in team fights.

carrion rifle is just one of the many engineer builds i play (think ill be jamming cele scrapper when HoT hits), from end of game breakdowns i can tell it usually does about equal power & condi damage.
it doesnt have a lot of condi clear only healing turret (3 condis) & elixer S (2 condis split over 2 skills), but i can still beat burn guardians & other condi builds with it 1v1.

sure condi is annoying, but if you learn how to clear condis long enough to kill them its not that bad.

You have like two of the top builds for dealing with conditions so naturally you can’t complain, only thing better would be a Necromancer with a ton of transfers.

if theif takes HiS & shadow step with shadows embrace they have as much condi clear as my engi does. idk why they are complaining.

Thief only has Shadow Step for 3 which has higher cooldown than C which also gives a good tool belt, comparing S with a trait is dumb but S is still better, and HiS has double the cooldown of Healing Turret and isn’t AoE and heals half the amount and has double the cast time.

i dont run C. my only other active condi clear apart from healing turret (3 condis) is exiler S, the active & toolbelt remove one condi each. apart from a few passive single clenses in traits thats all the clear my engi has.

theif loses all damaging condis on HiS, loses 3 condis on shadow step, & looses 1 condi every three seconds they are in stealth (theif has easy access to stealth too, so blinding powder has 2 condi removed etc).

i have similar condi clear to theif on my engi, but somehow i can beat burn guards & other burn builds with it. i even beat p/p engi.

I can beat bads too, I remember a year ago being successful in hot joins with Carrion Guardian, Zerker Mantra Mesmer, Bunker turrets Engineer before they made them broken, Clerics Necromancer, Ice Bow zerker Elementalist, Bunker Beastmastery Ranger before it became popular, Rampager double sword Warrior, Bunker Thief kept me in the top 25 of solo queue.

all im saying is that you don’t need a lot of condi clear to beat a burn guard. you can tell me about your life as a hotjoin hero all you want. i only play ranked & unranked these days. sure, you can claim that all the burn players I encounter are bad & that’s why i win- but that just makes it look like you’re trying to protect your wounded pride.

burn builds are perhaps the easiest condi build to fight. they are focused on stacks no spread so its much easier to manage clears.

So quit telling me about your unproven life as a Thief that has killed things before. Maybe bads that can’t time their instant skills right, but it might be hard to tell when you play some of the best builds to fight it.

You’re the one who’s listing your pvp hero life prepatch as if it has merit in this discussion.

Still waiting for those detailed pics of OP burn damages that’s not coming from a Necro (full team condi transfers) or Burn Guardian (only damage we have, and your counter because you’re a thief).

Ele/Engi/Ranger/War/Mesmer are in no way carried be a single condition like Burning.

Uhh ok you really want me to post every death log then sure thing, I’ll play a couple games now and post after each one, queues are long enough to post messages now, says something about the direction the PvP went.

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

burn guard is a pretty simple fight unless you are drunk missing keys. they are also useless in team fights with shout bunkers. its a good build, sure but not apex.

Cleric Shout Warrior/Carrion Engineer comes again to tell us how fine condition builds are.

thumbs up

only one of these builds has excessive AOE clear, so your jab is half deserved.
still, shout warriors stupid amount of condi clear is nearly all AOE so i clear for the whole team creating a useless burn guard who cant do any damage at mid.

Yay one of the few counter builds and a better condition build.

every team should have shout warrior, shout guard or another bunker with heavy AOE condi clear for mid. tournament teams all run them. i know with matchmaking you don’t always get them, but you can always swap to one if you see your team has no bunk (do this often). condis should be balanced with these builds in mind imo.

also, carrion rifle is hybrid so only 50% condi damage.

Ohh so that’s balanced then right the complete necessity of one build out of 8 classes with many builds to be on every 5 man team, just so condition builds aren’t completely out of control. Poor, unorganized 99% of games will always suffer since you aren’t on their random teams to make condition builds balanced in team fights on your point, GW2 Esports has been succeeding for 3 years now clearly.

you never heard of bunker guards before? you even know why people take them? smh

smh

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

burn guard is a pretty simple fight unless you are drunk missing keys. they are also useless in team fights with shout bunkers. its a good build, sure but not apex.

Cleric Shout Warrior/Carrion Engineer comes again to tell us how fine condition builds are.

thumbs up

only one of these builds has excessive AOE clear, so your jab is half deserved.
still, shout warriors stupid amount of condi clear is nearly all AOE so i clear for the whole team creating a useless burn guard who cant do any damage at mid.

Yay one of the few counter builds and a better condition build.

every team should have shout warrior, shout guard or another bunker with heavy AOE condi clear for mid. tournament teams all run them. i know with matchmaking you don’t always get them, but you can always swap to one if you see your team has no bunk (do this often). condis should be balanced with these builds in mind imo.

also, carrion rifle is hybrid so only 50% condi damage.

Ohh so that’s balanced then right the complete necessity of one build out of 8 classes with many builds to be on every 5 man team, just so condition builds aren’t completely out of control. Poor, unorganized 99% of games will always suffer since you aren’t on their random teams to make condition builds balanced in team fights on your point, GW2 Esports has been succeeding for 3 years now clearly.

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

you need to do two things when fighting a condi build: manage your condis & kill them.
you will always run put of clears, so cc them & damage them so they cant apply any more.

i can beat burn builds on engi or warrior easy, dont play much else but its all about running condi clear & using it well. all my breakdowns at the END OF THE MATCH for damage taken will have condi damage as about half of power damage revived. of course, often i dont die all game so idk maybe i have a magic wizard power against condis.

So carrion condition Engineer and a cleric shout Warrior according to your signature. One’s part of this thread and the other is probably the build with most condition removal available besides a Necromancer.

shout warrior also removes condis for the whole team. so it makes dealing with condis easier for everyone. ive nuterd condi so many burn guardians with it in team fights.

carrion rifle is just one of the many engineer builds i play (think ill be jamming cele scrapper when HoT hits), from end of game breakdowns i can tell it usually does about equal power & condi damage.
it doesnt have a lot of condi clear only healing turret (3 condis) & elixer S (2 condis split over 2 skills), but i can still beat burn guardians & other condi builds with it 1v1.

sure condi is annoying, but if you learn how to clear condis long enough to kill them its not that bad.

You have like two of the top builds for dealing with conditions so naturally you can’t complain, only thing better would be a Necromancer with a ton of transfers.

if theif takes HiS & shadow step with shadows embrace they have as much condi clear as my engi does. idk why they are complaining.

Thief only has Shadow Step for 3 which has higher cooldown than C which also gives a good tool belt, comparing S with a trait is dumb but S is still better, and HiS has double the cooldown of Healing Turret and isn’t AoE and heals half the amount and has double the cast time.

i dont run C. my only other active condi clear apart from healing turret (3 condis) is exiler S, the active & toolbelt remove one condi each. apart from a few passive single clenses in traits thats all the clear my engi has.

theif loses all damaging condis on HiS, loses 3 condis on shadow step, & looses 1 condi every three seconds they are in stealth (theif has easy access to stealth too, so blinding powder has 2 condi removed etc).

i have similar condi clear to theif on my engi, but somehow i can beat burn guards & other burn builds with it. i even beat p/p engi.

I can beat bads too, I remember a year ago being successful in hot joins with Carrion Guardian, Zerker Mantra Mesmer, Bunker turrets Engineer before they made them broken, Clerics Necromancer, Ice Bow zerker Elementalist, Bunker Beastmastery Ranger before it became popular, Rampager double sword Warrior, Bunker Thief kept me in the top 25 of solo queue.

all im saying is that you don’t need a lot of condi clear to beat a burn guard. you can tell me about your life as a hotjoin hero all you want. i only play ranked & unranked these days. sure, you can claim that all the burn players I encounter are bad & that’s why i win- but that just makes it look like you’re trying to protect your wounded pride.

burn builds are perhaps the easiest condi build to fight. they are focused on stacks no spread so its much easier to manage clears.

So quit telling me about your unproven life as a Thief that has killed things before. Maybe bads that can’t time their instant skills right, but it might be hard to tell when you play some of the best builds to fight it.

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

burn guard is a pretty simple fight unless you are drunk missing keys. they are also useless in team fights with shout bunkers. its a good build, sure but not apex.

Cleric Shout Warrior/Carrion Engineer comes again to tell us how fine condition builds are.

thumbs up

only one of these builds has excessive AOE clear, so your jab is half deserved.
still, shout warriors stupid amount of condi clear is nearly all AOE so i clear for the whole team creating a useless burn guard who cant do any damage at mid.

Yay one of the few counter builds and a better condition build.

choovanski.5462:

burn guard is a pretty simple fight unless you are drunk missing keys. they are also useless in team fights with shout bunkers. its a good build, sure but not apex.

Cleric Shout Warrior/Carrion Engineer comes again to tell us how fine condition builds are.

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

you need to do two things when fighting a condi build: manage your condis & kill them.
you will always run put of clears, so cc them & damage them so they cant apply any more.

i can beat burn builds on engi or warrior easy, dont play much else but its all about running condi clear & using it well. all my breakdowns at the END OF THE MATCH for damage taken will have condi damage as about half of power damage revived. of course, often i dont die all game so idk maybe i have a magic wizard power against condis.

So carrion condition Engineer and a cleric shout Warrior according to your signature. One’s part of this thread and the other is probably the build with most condition removal available besides a Necromancer.

shout warrior also removes condis for the whole team. so it makes dealing with condis easier for everyone. ive nuterd condi so many burn guardians with it in team fights.

carrion rifle is just one of the many engineer builds i play (think ill be jamming cele scrapper when HoT hits), from end of game breakdowns i can tell it usually does about equal power & condi damage.
it doesnt have a lot of condi clear only healing turret (3 condis) & elixer S (2 condis split over 2 skills), but i can still beat burn guardians & other condi builds with it 1v1.

sure condi is annoying, but if you learn how to clear condis long enough to kill them its not that bad.

You have like two of the top builds for dealing with conditions so naturally you can’t complain, only thing better would be a Necromancer with a ton of transfers.

if theif takes HiS & shadow step with shadows embrace they have as much condi clear as my engi does. idk why they are complaining.

Thief only has Shadow Step for 3 which has higher cooldown than C which also gives a good tool belt, comparing S with a trait is dumb but S is still better, and HiS has double the cooldown of Healing Turret and isn’t AoE and heals half the amount and has double the cast time.

i dont run C. my only other active condi clear apart from healing turret (3 condis) is exiler S, the active & toolbelt remove one condi each. apart from a few passive single clenses in traits thats all the clear my engi has.

theif loses all damaging condis on HiS, loses 3 condis on shadow step, & looses 1 condi every three seconds they are in stealth (theif has easy access to stealth too, so blinding powder has 2 condi removed etc).

i have similar condi clear to theif on my engi, but somehow i can beat burn guards & other burn builds with it. i even beat p/p engi.

I can beat bads too, I remember a year ago being successful in hot joins with Carrion Guardian, Zerker Mantra Mesmer, Bunker turrets Engineer before they made them broken, Clerics Necromancer, Ice Bow zerker Elementalist, Bunker Beastmastery Ranger before it became popular, Rampager double sword Warrior, Bunker Thief kept me in the top 25 of solo queue.

Soryuju.8164:

glaphen.5230:

Soryuju.8164:

Here’s a reference for the cast times of skills commonly used by Burn Guardians for burn application and/or burst combos. Every skill with a cast time has some associated animation with it to allow opposing players some chance to react.

Zealot’s Flame: Instant
Judge’s Intervention: Instant
Purging Flames: .75 second cast time
Smite: .25 second cast time
Chains of Light: .5 second cast time
Zealot’s Fire: .75 second cast time
Cleansing Flames: 4.25 second channel
Zealot’s Defense: .75 second cast time + channel
Whirling Wrath: .75 second cast time + channel

The only instant-cast parts of a standard Burn Guardian’s toolkit are Zealot’s Flame, Judge’s Intervention, and the same sigil procs that all professions have access to (and alsoVirtue of Justice, though you’ll rarely see it activated outside of securing stomps). The animation for something like Chains of Light isn’t quite as obvious as it is for Kill Shot or Eviscerate, but you actually can react to it if you’re paying attention to the Guardian.

The other part of your argument that I don’t get is that most power-based Meditation Guardians use a very similar burst rotation to Burn Guardians. Immobilize with Scepter and teleport in with Judge’s Intervention while simultaneously casting Whirling Wrath, Zealot’s Defense, and/or one of our other burst skills (e.g. Shield of Wrath). Power Guardians will often also add Smite Condition to the combo which is an instant-cast(!) 3k damage crit if they’ve got any condition on them. Most of the same skills are killing you with the burn build as they are with the power build, and the damage is just coming from a different place. The difference in this situation is that the power build kills you up front, and doesn’t give you a chance to negate the majority of its damage.

Except pretty much everything you listed doesn’t actually burn but just adds hit count for justice to proc, why not list every single skill that counts as a hit.

Because most Burn Guards don’t just “burst” with Purging Flames, Judge’s Intervention, and nothing else, I guess?

I don’t get your point at all – burns are burns, why does it matter whether the skill applies them inherently or through VoJ procs? The ones I listed are some of the ones that proc VoJ the most, compared to something like Mighty Blow or Orb of Light, or the ones that contribute in some way to big burn bursts, like Chains of Light.

I gave you some numbers disproving your claims that almost all Guardian burns are instant-cast and an argument that a Guardian’s power build (which you don’t have an issue with) uses most of the same tools to kill as a Burn Guardian does. Is your statement above your only response to all of that?

Again all those sources are unavoidable besides luck dodges while you can save your dodges for big skills on a DPS Guardian, what instant skills are they actually killing you with. Guardian can easily instantly get you with at least 7 stacks of burning in nearly an instant from an instant teleport then swap weapons and make you waste your condition removal on nothing. Oh no a Whirling Wrath, better cripple, chill, dodge, block, invulnerability, slow, teleport, leap, CC, weakness, tank it with toughness or reflect. Oh no a Judge’s Intervention from 1,200 or closer better…….Well you can try dodging but there is no guarantee he will use it and you just wasted a dodge.

Also what I edited in the last post since I didn’t read much since I was busy before I posted. Also whoa 3k damage crit instantly every 20 seconds, Purging Flames is pretty unavoidable 3 stacks for 8 seconds burning on a condition build, that’s 3.6k damage after 3 seconds and you still have 5 seconds left to go, but it cures triple the conditions, is AoE cure and reduces duration by 33% while in it while making a fire field but it doens’t even have double the cooldown. But condition sigils have an extra advantage of doing damage while keeping the rest of your conditions on.

Soryuju.8164:

Here’s a reference for the cast times of skills commonly used by Burn Guardians for burn application and/or burst combos. Every skill with a cast time has some associated animation with it to allow opposing players some chance to react.

Zealot’s Flame: Instant
Judge’s Intervention: Instant
Purging Flames: .75 second cast time
Smite: .25 second cast time
Chains of Light: .5 second cast time
Zealot’s Fire: .75 second cast time
Cleansing Flames: 4.25 second channel
Zealot’s Defense: .75 second cast time + channel
Whirling Wrath: .75 second cast time + channel

The only instant-cast parts of a standard Burn Guardian’s toolkit are Zealot’s Flame, Judge’s Intervention, and the same sigil procs that all professions have access to (and alsoVirtue of Justice, though you’ll rarely see it activated outside of securing stomps). The animation for something like Chains of Light isn’t quite as obvious as it is for Kill Shot or Eviscerate, but you actually can react to it if you’re paying attention to the Guardian.

The other part of your argument that I don’t get is that most power-based Meditation Guardians use a very similar burst rotation to Burn Guardians. Immobilize with Scepter and teleport in with Judge’s Intervention while simultaneously casting Whirling Wrath, Zealot’s Defense, and/or one of our other burst skills (e.g. Shield of Wrath). Power Guardians will often also add Smite Condition to the combo which is an instant-cast(!) 3k damage crit if they’ve got any condition on them. Most of the same skills are killing you with the burn build as they are with the power build, and the damage is just coming from a different place. The difference in this situation is that the power build kills you up front, and doesn’t give you a chance to negate the majority of its damage.

Except pretty much everything you listed doesn’t actually burn but just adds hit count for justice to proc, why not list every single skill that counts as a hit.

Also whoa 3k damage crit instantly every 20 seconds, Purging Flames is pretty unavoidable 3 stacks for 8 seconds burning on a condition build, that’s 3.6k damage after 3 seconds and you still have 5 seconds left to go, but it cures triple the conditions, is AoE cure and reduces duration by 33% while in it while making a fire field but it doens’t even have double the cooldown. But condition sigils have an extra advantage of doing damage while keeping the rest of your conditions on.

Vapour.7348:

Saiyan.1704:

TheDevice.2751:

They are the best pvp build.

lelwut?

that statement should officially void this thread. teammates 100% of the time want me on AH instead of burn.

One persons statement>rest of thread.

zapv.8051:

robertul.3679:

People complain because it’s pretty frustrating to deal with 6k burn ticks or more. That means if you don’t got a cleanse ready for whatever reason you die in 3-4s.

The only way you get 6k burn ticks on a burn guard is if you land a lot of skills. If your getting hit by everything the guardian has what do you expect? If you can’t avoid a burn guard burst, I’d hate to see you fight a good shatter mes.

glaphen.5230:

zapv.8051:

Most builds already run crit chance, not a problem. Also, it is most definitely a viable sigil. I think I see your problem, your letting the burn guard land literally everything. That’s the only way your getting 5-7 condos on you at once.

Those conditions apply on literally instant actions.

Except only a few of them do, which is completely fair because there are many instant damaging skills. Also, most of those instant skills have other prerequisites to land. The point is that guards really don’t apply many conditions outside of burn, and a generosity sigil will very often remove that burn. Your acting like burn guards are putting 5 conditions on people in regular fights which they simply aren’t. As soon as you get rid of the few cover conditions they have, which are all sparse in application, the only thing left is burn.

Literally the only Guardian burn that isn’t instant is Zealot’s Fire. Only reason you don’t see 6k burn ticks is the target can’t survive that long. Also instant physical damage skills, name a couple please. How much condition removal do you expect people to carry, remove cover conditions now remove the burn and hope they don’t put on more right after. Also shatter burst is easy enough to counter if you have any sort of teleport/block or weapon dodge, clones have a travel time, that is if you fail to avoid their swap immobilize in the first place, Guardians instantly teleport.

Vapour.7348:

But if that burn guard played a dps guard and you are out of dodges or blocks, it’s the same thing…you have damage coming your way and you have little defense for it.

People just have a prejudice against bursty condis.

Things that stop melee physical damage.
Cripple/Chill
Blind
Weakness
Slow
Confusion
Invulnerability
Dodge
Leaps
CC
Toughness
Things that stop ranged physical damage.
All of the above besides Cripple/Chill unless you are running
Reflect
Line of Sight
Things that stop condition damage.
Lucky dodges or blinds
Condition removal
Resistance
Most condition causing skills aren’t even projectiles but reflect or dodges for the few that are.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Sometimes you die in PVP and there was literally nothing you could have done to avoid it. I’m OK with that.

Burn Guards can be brutal, but you know that already. . . long before you stand in front of one. If you get nuked by one, suck it up and move on.

Part of the game is picking your fights.

I suck it it up if I mess up and die to an Eviscerate or Shatter Mesmer, can’t really do much better against a condition build without playing a build that most classes can’t even do specifically to counter them.

trytonianYeti.4389:

grow up. burn guards only have…burns. it’s the only damaging condition they have. if you can cleanse that, it’s a L2P issue.

burning is a low tier problem.

I cant believe people complain about burn guards. I find condi mesmers to be more problematic.

Let’s ignore the 8 second poison and 3 stacks of 8 second bleed the moment they weapon swap every 10 seconds.

zapv.8051:

Most builds already run crit chance, not a problem. Also, it is most definitely a viable sigil. I think I see your problem, your letting the burn guard land literally everything. That’s the only way your getting 5-7 condos on you at once.

Those conditions apply on literally instant actions.

zapv.8051:

Many conditions, lol it’s a burn guard they only have a few. Also it uses the original persons condi damage not your own. Also, your really dumb if you run it without crit chance.

Ah you are right it is original appliers condition damage now, still doesn’t make it viable. Guess every build needs to run crit chance to have a small chance against Guardians now. Guardians can easily burst you for an instant 5-7 different conditions.

zapv.8051:

You think the only semi-viable condition build in the game, which gets countered hard by generosity sigils, is the most OP in the game. That’s just hilarious.

Totally counters it with it 60% on another RNG aspect that without an amulet for it you’ll only have a 4% chance to have 60% chance to transfer one of many conditions, that deals damage based off your own condition damage.

Saiyan.1704:

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

Grover.8753:

4 stacks of burn dmg at 4 ticks shold not clear 16-20k hp….it does. Needs fix.

What skill can apply 4 stacks of burns, dealing 16-20k HP in 4 seconds…? It takes 4 ticks for 6 burn stacks to reach 9k-10k burn damages.

I’m beginning to think that every player who QQ about burns are Thieves with 0 condi cleanses with 10k health.

- FalseLights
My GW2 Blog Spot
[TPvP] Condi Guard Guide

[TPvP] Condi Guard Guide

Had a Condi Guard Guide since prepatch bro.

I’ve ran Burn Guardian before it was cool.

Yeah and I’ve played it before even you did, I used to run a Carrion Guardian about a year and a half ago.

Saiyan.1704:

Grover.8753:

4 stacks of burn dmg at 4 ticks shold not clear 16-20k hp….it does. Needs fix.

What skill can apply 4 stacks of burns, dealing 16-20k HP in 4 seconds…? It takes 4 ticks for 6 burn stacks to reach 9k-10k burn damages.

I’m beginning to think that every player who QQ about burns are Thieves with 0 condi cleanses with 10k health.

- FalseLights
My GW2 Blog Spot
[TPvP] Condi Guard Guide

[TPvP] Condi Guard Guide

Tulki.1458:

glaphen.5230:

Tulki.1458:

If the death recap showed 35k direct damage coming from a power build, would you be making a post? Honestly.

Nope because it would be my fault for not preventing it with the many many ways to prevent big physical damage. Only thing you can do about conditions is hopefully remove what you want it to after it’s applied.

The difference being that you have to predict physical damage to prevent it, but with conditions you can react after the enemy applies them… that’s too big to ignore.

Predict? Only thing you have to predict is Backstabs from Thieves, rest all has extremely obvious animations.

Tulki.1458:

If the death recap showed 35k direct damage coming from a power build, would you be making a post? Honestly.

Nope because it would be my fault for not preventing it with the many many ways to prevent big physical damage. Only thing you can do about conditions is hopefully remove what you want it to after it’s applied.

mistsim.2748:

what’s wrong with people dying to burn guardians?

they don’t bring enough condi cleanse.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

88 skills/traits/runes that remove a condition in some way.
68 that cause burning in some way.

13 total conditions and some have more than burning probably.
3 skills that remove every single condition and 2 have 60s, one has 40s cooldown.
It’s easy to get multiple conditions but multiple condition removal is pretty hard, especially when their sole use is to remove conditions but not all of them. Either way there isn’t enough when conditions have tiny cooldowns compared with any of those removals.

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

you need to do two things when fighting a condi build: manage your condis & kill them.
you will always run put of clears, so cc them & damage them so they cant apply any more.

i can beat burn builds on engi or warrior easy, dont play much else but its all about running condi clear & using it well. all my breakdowns at the END OF THE MATCH for damage taken will have condi damage as about half of power damage revived. of course, often i dont die all game so idk maybe i have a magic wizard power against condis.

So carrion condition Engineer and a cleric shout Warrior according to your signature. One’s part of this thread and the other is probably the build with most condition removal available besides a Necromancer.

shout warrior also removes condis for the whole team. so it makes dealing with condis easier for everyone. ive nuterd condi so many burn guardians with it in team fights.

carrion rifle is just one of the many engineer builds i play (think ill be jamming cele scrapper when HoT hits), from end of game breakdowns i can tell it usually does about equal power & condi damage.
it doesnt have a lot of condi clear only healing turret (3 condis) & elixer S (2 condis split over 2 skills), but i can still beat burn guardians & other condi builds with it 1v1.

sure condi is annoying, but if you learn how to clear condis long enough to kill them its not that bad.

You have like two of the top builds for dealing with conditions so naturally you can’t complain, only thing better would be a Necromancer with a ton of transfers.

if theif takes HiS & shadow step with shadows embrace they have as much condi clear as my engi does. idk why they are complaining.

Thief only has Shadow Step for 3 which has higher cooldown than C which also gives a good tool belt, comparing S with a trait is dumb but S is still better, and HiS has double the cooldown of Healing Turret and isn’t AoE and heals half the amount and has double the cast time.

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

you need to do two things when fighting a condi build: manage your condis & kill them.
you will always run put of clears, so cc them & damage them so they cant apply any more.

i can beat burn builds on engi or warrior easy, dont play much else but its all about running condi clear & using it well. all my breakdowns at the END OF THE MATCH for damage taken will have condi damage as about half of power damage revived. of course, often i dont die all game so idk maybe i have a magic wizard power against condis.

So carrion condition Engineer and a cleric shout Warrior according to your signature. One’s part of this thread and the other is probably the build with most condition removal available besides a Necromancer.

shout warrior also removes condis for the whole team. so it makes dealing with condis easier for everyone. ive nuterd condi so many burn guardians with it in team fights.

carrion rifle is just one of the many engineer builds i play (think ill be jamming cele scrapper when HoT hits), from end of game breakdowns i can tell it usually does about equal power & condi damage.
it doesnt have a lot of condi clear only healing turret (3 condis) & elixer S (2 condis split over 2 skills), but i can still beat burn guardians & other condi builds with it 1v1.

sure condi is annoying, but if you learn how to clear condis long enough to kill them its not that bad.

You have like two of the top builds for dealing with conditions so naturally you can’t complain, only thing better would be a Necromancer with a ton of transfers.

choovanski.5462:

you need to do two things when fighting a condi build: manage your condis & kill them.
you will always run put of clears, so cc them & damage them so they cant apply any more.

i can beat burn builds on engi or warrior easy, dont play much else but its all about running condi clear & using it well. all my breakdowns at the END OF THE MATCH for damage taken will have condi damage as about half of power damage revived. of course, often i dont die all game so idk maybe i have a magic wizard power against condis.

So carrion condition Engineer and a cleric shout Warrior according to your signature. One’s part of this thread and the other is probably the build with most condition removal available besides a Necromancer.

Runiir.6425:

Actually SlayerSixx, Necromancers CAN just give conditions from their very being with Reaper (chill and vulnerability and even burn if you trait it right just from being within 400-500 range of them while in shroud). Becoming a walking condition field of fun that pulses every second.

Guardian can pulse burn with torch and a trait that uses the torch skill most of the time already, plague already pulses stuff too.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

glaphen.5230:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

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Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

Why are you in unranked? Again your build worries me. you might still be used to that previous year mentality. It’s a team effort you didn’t necessarily won your matches…alone. If it wasn’t on thief I would see your “proof” as more fitting and one more time your build worries me.

Why would I start playing ranked after a year of not playing, especially with solo queue removed, doesn’t matter if my build worries you it works, ANet already nerfed it multiple times even though no one ran it.

Shaogin.2679:

Oh look, a new burn thread. Cause you know, heaven forbid we just use one of the 100 other threads. Listen, I play an Engi. My condi clear sucks. But I kept getting matched against a bunch of condi builds so I changed my build to bring more condi removal at the cost of some damage, but it was worth it. Adapt and overcome, don’t just come here to whine.

Engineer condition clear sucks, in what universe, you would have to try to get a build without condition removal on Engineer, were you not running healing turret?

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Serious Thought.5394:

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

Sorry but this just isn’t true…. (if you’re talking about spvp). You can be Rabid and have some toughness, or you can be Carrion and have some HP. You can’t do both, and you definitley cannot be ‘…massively tanky.’ as you put it.

Also (for spvp or any format)… if things were as cut and dry as you say then noone would play power builds. To use engi again… their Soldier/Rifle power build has high power, high toughness and high HP… and happily gets it’s guaranteed crits when they matter through Sigil proc. WAY tankier than an engi condi build, with on demand burst on a much shorter cooldown.

Sorry but you’re massively generalising because you personally don’t like something… them thar facts of yours, aint no facts at all.

What skills does a power Engineer have that does high damage without an obvious animation, there are tons of stun breaks on the most random skills and stability is plentiful now so a build will usually have at least one, condition removal mostly is the one purpose of the utility or requires are trait that makes certain utilities remove one random one while the animations that cause conditions have no obvious signs, you don’t see traits that say 10% chance to causes stun on hit but you see tons of traits for 33% chance to causes condition on any hit.

Conditions do put a pretty visual red symbol next to you…

As we’re using engi… First sign you’re going to get burst is he will use his ‘Incendiary Ammo’ – this puts a very visible boon/buff symbol on the Engi. You now KNOW that his next 3 attacks are going to hurt and if you can avoid just those 3 attacks he’s going to be much much much much less of a threat. So you can dodge, or you can block or reflect or just get ready with that condi clear or…

Just saying that there may be visual clues… Also, perhaps ironically, that condi engi is highly susceptible to condition damage, and will probably just turn and run at the sight of a burn Guard… but, you can’t win ‘em all… unless you’re a Mesmer… I don’t mean that, but yeah Nerf Mesmer. No don’t, I playing Mesmer sometimes… just un-nerf them at weekends…

I have played for 2 years with multiple builds based around dodging, I know any methods of dodging conditions but they aren’t viable, they all hurt like hell and the only defense is being built around negating their damage after it hits specifically through a couple traits and utilities that doesn’t give nearly enough to survive more than a few seconds, I can dodge a hammer Warriors big hits for days and I could even dodge ranged Pin Downs before they nerfed it’s animation but you can’t dodge a Guardian causing burn every few hits and even if you clear it, it’s going to continue on every few hits while their adding more from weapon swaps and utilities that cause it instantly and you wait for your long cooldown condition removal to remove some random conditions that probably isn’t burning, not like Guardians lack defense with Shelter, Shield of Wrath and multiple sources of Aegis causing burning if you hit them.

Guardian problem, not burn problem… Like I said Engi for e.g. telegraphs it with a buff icon.

And yet that only applies on their one long duration cooldown instant skill, instead they get conditions on every single attack with low cooldowns on everything else, and as the guy above says it can be activated mid attack with a multihit skill.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

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Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

Why are you in unranked? Again your build worries me. you might still be used to that previous year mentality. It’s a team effort you didn’t necessarily won your matches…alone. If it wasn’t on thief I would see your “proof” as more fitting and one more time your build worries me.

Why would I start playing ranked after a year of not playing, especially with solo queue removed, doesn’t matter if my build worries you it works, ANet already nerfed it multiple times even though no one ran it.

Shaogin.2679:

Oh look, a new burn thread. Cause you know, heaven forbid we just use one of the 100 other threads. Listen, I play an Engi. My condi clear sucks. But I kept getting matched against a bunch of condi builds so I changed my build to bring more condi removal at the cost of some damage, but it was worth it. Adapt and overcome, don’t just come here to whine.

Engineer condition clear sucks, in what universe, you would have to try to get a build without condition removal on Engineer, were you not running healing turret?

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Serious Thought.5394:

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

Sorry but this just isn’t true…. (if you’re talking about spvp). You can be Rabid and have some toughness, or you can be Carrion and have some HP. You can’t do both, and you definitley cannot be ‘…massively tanky.’ as you put it.

Also (for spvp or any format)… if things were as cut and dry as you say then noone would play power builds. To use engi again… their Soldier/Rifle power build has high power, high toughness and high HP… and happily gets it’s guaranteed crits when they matter through Sigil proc. WAY tankier than an engi condi build, with on demand burst on a much shorter cooldown.

Sorry but you’re massively generalising because you personally don’t like something… them thar facts of yours, aint no facts at all.

What skills does a power Engineer have that does high damage without an obvious animation, there are tons of stun breaks on the most random skills and stability is plentiful now so a build will usually have at least one, condition removal mostly is the one purpose of the utility or requires are trait that makes certain utilities remove one random one while the animations that cause conditions have no obvious signs, you don’t see traits that say 10% chance to causes stun on hit but you see tons of traits for 33% chance to causes condition on any hit.

Conditions do put a pretty visual red symbol next to you…

As we’re using engi… First sign you’re going to get burst is he will use his ‘Incendiary Ammo’ – this puts a very visible boon/buff symbol on the Engi. You now KNOW that his next 3 attacks are going to hurt and if you can avoid just those 3 attacks he’s going to be much much much much less of a threat. So you can dodge, or you can block or reflect or just get ready with that condi clear or…

Just saying that there may be visual clues… Also, perhaps ironically, that condi engi is highly susceptible to condition damage, and will probably just turn and run at the sight of a burn Guard… but, you can’t win ‘em all… unless you’re a Mesmer… I don’t mean that, but yeah Nerf Mesmer. No don’t, I playing Mesmer sometimes… just un-nerf them at weekends…

I have played for 2 years with multiple builds based around dodging, I know any methods of dodging conditions but they aren’t viable, they all hurt like hell and the only defense is being built around negating their damage after it hits specifically through a couple traits and utilities that doesn’t give nearly enough to survive more than a few seconds, I can dodge a hammer Warriors big hits for days and I could even dodge ranged Pin Downs before they nerfed it’s animation but you can’t dodge a Guardian causing burn every few hits and even if you clear it, it’s going to continue on every few hits while their adding more from weapon swaps and utilities that cause it instantly and you wait for your long cooldown condition removal to remove some random conditions that probably isn’t burning, not like Guardians lack defense with Shelter, Shield of Wrath and multiple sources of Aegis causing burning if you hit them.

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

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Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

Why are you in unranked? Again your build worries me. you might still be used to that previous year mentality. It’s a team effort you didn’t necessarily won your matches…alone. If it wasn’t on thief I would see your “proof” as more fitting and one more time your build worries me.

Why would I start playing ranked after a year of not playing, especially with solo queue removed, doesn’t matter if my build worries you it works, ANet already nerfed it multiple times even though no one ran it.

Shaogin.2679:

Oh look, a new burn thread. Cause you know, heaven forbid we just use one of the 100 other threads. Listen, I play an Engi. My condi clear sucks. But I kept getting matched against a bunch of condi builds so I changed my build to bring more condi removal at the cost of some damage, but it was worth it. Adapt and overcome, don’t just come here to whine.

Engineer condition clear sucks, in what universe, you would have to try to get a build without condition removal on Engineer, were you not running healing turret?

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Serious Thought.5394:

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

Sorry but this just isn’t true…. (if you’re talking about spvp). You can be Rabid and have some toughness, or you can be Carrion and have some HP. You can’t do both, and you definitley cannot be ‘…massively tanky.’ as you put it.

Also (for spvp or any format)… if things were as cut and dry as you say then noone would play power builds. To use engi again… their Soldier/Rifle power build has high power, high toughness and high HP… and happily gets it’s guaranteed crits when they matter through Sigil proc. WAY tankier than an engi condi build, with on demand burst on a much shorter cooldown.

Sorry but you’re massively generalising because you personally don’t like something… them thar facts of yours, aint no facts at all.

What skills does a power Engineer have that does high damage without an obvious animation, there are tons of stun breaks on the most random skills and stability is plentiful now so a build will usually have at least one, condition removal mostly is the one purpose of the utility or requires are trait that makes certain utilities remove one random one while the animations that cause conditions have no obvious signs, you don’t see traits that say 10% chance to causes stun on hit but you see tons of traits for 33% chance to causes condition on any hit.

Shaogin.2679:

Serious Thought.5394:

I feel like you are too. I dislike burning, but not because of damage because of tankiness. Also, it loses a considerable amount of damage for using soldier. And I was going to mention intelligence sigil, but I felt like people would pick up on it without having to use it as their go to. AND its on Engi which has on demand weapon swaps like ele (who still are running cele… =/ oh well). 50% damage from soldier, 130% damage from zerker, 100% from marauder. Those are the differences. A guaranteed crit is only as good as your ferocity+power. And if they spend their whole time trying to stack might, then my corrupt necro will spend their whole match with weakness on them. I dislike burning, but I will use it. However, don’t try to point a finger at someone else before pointing it at yourself first. Often times, people say what they want others to believe isn’t true for them.

Last thing, massively generalizing what? I gave an example, one that isn’t hard to reach. Incendiary ammo engi, corruption necro (dag 4, signet, staff 4), ele on anything but staff, guardians. Massively tanky is Dire. Dire is semi achievable in spvp anyway. Lemme just iterate my last point: I no longer care about burning power. Its strong, its overtuned, its annoying. Devs like it. Therefore, I will play around it. And I will stop whining. I’m just pointing out how condition damage works. You have ONE stat (and duration, but the people who get duration usually get condi dmg with it or avoid using the duration item) and burst power builds have 3. Power builds have 1. Power builds are tank builds. Burst power is power/precision/ferocity. Condi is Condidmg/x/y.

Another difference is the fact that burst damage builds will frontload 5-15k damage, while that incendiary ammo engi is blowing a long cooldown for a condi damage burst that could just be cleansed and negated. That Engi then has to rely on filler condi damage and his defensive stats while waiting on his condi bust set up to be ready again and hope the same thing doesn’t happen.

Not like incendiary ammo is Engineers only way to cause conditions, every single pistol skill, some traits, bombs, grenades, weapon swaps, runes, all cause conditions, want to know the highest cooldown of those? 25 seconds on poison grenades is the highest damaging condition cooldown, which has the same animation as every other grenade.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Erindriel.2351:

“Burst condition”

Do you understand the irony of your statement?

That’s not ironic – you’re just stuck in a mindset that conditions HAVE to be slow. Just like direct damage, there is sustained damage and burst damage.

For example on a build I run on Engi, I have some sustained burn/condi damage – never actually going to kill anyone with it. If I can get someone to eat my Incendiary Ammo (my burst burn) then I’ve got a good chance of winning and their death log will look like they took a LOT of burn damage. However I have to live long enough to bait out my oponent’s condi clears first, and I have to recognise that I’ve done it, and time my burst when they have no defense against it. If I get this wrong then I might as well get my coat and go home because that’s it for another 45ish seconds… I’m back to tickling.

If you get condi bursted then you didn’t have a condi clear available… first ask yourself why is that?… sry to say you might just have been out played. Perhaps not true of ALL classes, but then that’s a class problem, not a burn problem.

You can have burst conditions when they have an animation like Hundred Blades or Killshot or even just Eviscerate.

Silv.9207:

There’s always a funny aspect to all that “Burn OP OMG” treads:
If Burn is OP how can you survive to 54k of Burn Damage????

The problem is not the amount of damage but the time that damage need to kill you.
If you survived to 54k of burn is why you used all your healing skills, more than once, and someone else healed you. )or you’re a iper bunker necromancer with a insane amount of HP and LF + heal.

When a dps guardian burst you, you can’t read 40k of XXXskill why that guardian will kill you fast, leaving you not so much time to heal all the damage dealt.

In that image the thief survived to 54k of burn, 10k of bleed, 4k of poison and 6k of the ele skill + a large amount of damage dealt by other random skills.

A thief more or less have 16k of HP, right?

Then how can that burn is OP if it dealt you enough damage to kill you more than 3 times and you’re still alive?

The thief is really weak against conditions, we all know, but if Burn is strong like you say, how can you be able to survive to 3 times your life, only of Burn damage?

If you fight a dps guardian you recive lesser numerical damage bur you die quickly. 16-20k and you’re dead. Not so much time to survive like you have 3 lives (and much more if you add bleed, poison, and the other skills).

Seriously, me and one of my friend that play both dps and burn guardian can simply say that Burn deal a very high damage but direct damage kill so much better and frequently inflict so much more damage. But it’s lower than what you can read why you die before the damage reach the 54k!

Please, don’t look at that screnshots, they’re useless, futile and misleading.

If you can survive to 54k of Burn damage (+ a lot of different conditions and direct damage) as a thief in a XvsX team fight, the Burn damage is NOT OP.

Because it’s not like they are focusing me the entire fight, I can sustain a couple stacks of burning if they are ignoring me, problem is the moment a condition build looks at me I get a massive stack up my kitten and die in moments spamming every single heal I have only to die, saw yesterday on my last match I had 13 stacks of burning on me before I died from a single Guardian in a team fight. I use Cleric’s amulet so it’s natural that I survive with a ton of healing things just like it’s natural for them to do high condition damage, problem is the highest damage condition previously now stacks to do triple the damage or more instead of just duration and multiple stacks per skill to keep the damage the same as previously.

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

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Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

Saiyan.1704:

The dmg break down helps in figuring out exactly how you died and in what ways. 5 people attacking you and you not dying until 2m has passed, does not mean burning is OP..

Like would you want me to post every single death recap tomorrow and count how many times burning is at the top of the chart, far beyond anything else?

Saiyan.1704:

You’re a Thief… it explainsl why condi was the most damaging condition on the list… you only got hit by raw dmg a couple of times while the conditions were ticking away while you were stealth.

And i think you got downed by a Warrior…?

My build doesn’t even have stealth. Death log tracks downs and stomp deaths and the Warrior one wasn’t me.

Pretty balanced.

ragnarokda.1805:

Are interrupt builds a viable or were at one time a viable strategy? If so, does anyone have a build link to a a sort of “skeleton” of a build that would involve focusing on interrupting?

I’m thinking this would involve sw/p with whatever as a second set. (Pistol Whip)

Thanks in advanced!

Daredevil has a nice skill for 3 interrupts per 25 seconds with a high damage nuke trait per interrupt but Mesmer and Warrior have traits that give benefits for interrupts.

Soryuju.8164:

style.6173:

Soryuju.8164:

glaphen.5230:

zapv.8051:

The first sentence is an opinion. The second is blatantly false because many people stating they don’t really play condition builds have said burning is not broken in this very thread. The only way I see you could reach the conclusion of the second sentence is if you literally think anyone who disagrees with you runs burn builds regardless of their own statements.

So apparently his statement is false and other peoples statement that they play don’t play condition builds is a fact based off absolutely nothing.

Do you really think that every player defending conditions in this thread plays condition builds exclusively across all the professions they use in PvP, and that playing a condition build somehow makes them unaffected by condition damage coming from the opposing team? Most people play a variety of builds, and they all have to deal with incoming conditions. Condi builds can have trouble cleansing too if they don’t incorporate enough condition clears into their build, so conditions aren’t a unique problem for non-condi players, either. If anything, you should be accusing all of the people defending condis of playing Diamond Skin Elementalist.

In response to removing the highest-damage condition first, I think we should also rework Blinds and Blocks so that they aren’t consumed by skills that deal damage below a certain threshold. I don’t want to negate autoattacks while Heartseeker is killing me, so I’d like Blinds and Blocks to only target the opponent’s most important damage skills. This would help reduce the RNG on these effects and help give players a way to counter the power builds that all the top teams are running.

You bring up a good point unintentionally. For direct damage attacks, an opponent has blocks, blinds, invulnerabilities,and dodges. For condition damage, the only counter play are dodges. Condi cleanse is the only other option and so it needs to remove the most damaging condition first.

Blocks, blinds, and invulnerabilities all work on skills that apply conditions the same way they work on skills that do regular damage. There’s also Resistance, which will be even more prevalent in HoT. I fail to see your point.

But they don’t because no condition skills have that obvious of an animation if one at all, you see a Warrior crouching with a rifle you know a Killshot is incoming and can counter it in many ways, conditions apply themselves on any skill hit and you can’t dodge those forever but there are limited dangerous physical skills and the more you add the squisher they are while condition builds are still tanky. Since you mention resistance I looked at every single new elite specialization and the only new source is the condition build of Revenant having 1 trait when you use a utility in that form and 1 utility in that form, only other reliable source is Warriors healing signet that has a long cast time and kills your sustain completely, other than that you have chill conversion utilities on some classes.

zapv.8051:

The first sentence is an opinion. The second is blatantly false because many people stating they don’t really play condition builds have said burning is not broken in this very thread. The only way I see you could reach the conclusion of the second sentence is if you literally think anyone who disagrees with you runs burn builds regardless of their own statements.

So apparently his statement is false and other peoples statement that they play don’t play condition builds is a fact based off absolutely nothing.

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

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Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

Saiyan.1704:

People complain about not having enough condi cleansed but they don’t want to trade their damaging sigils in with purity/geomancy.

Then you have team syncronization… Ele, Engi and Burn Guard will obviously show huge Burn damages in the death screen as oppose to Engi War, Revenant. Yet.. people just look at the combined numbers from both classes instead of the damage breakdown :/

I’ve said it before, Burns are only an issue in lower tier, unsyncronized teams. The single condition doesn’t carry builds… if it did then condi Eles and Engi would be a thing.

Condition removal skills are generally hard to get and have a long cooldown yet dont even remove everything so you have to trust luck. Conditions happen on every single attack with traits and condition causing skills have low cooldowns and low amount of actual animations, big physical skills can be dodged extremely easily besides dagger Thieves. Shouldn’t even stack, condition builds were OP a year ago and I return to see them making the strongest condition previously stack. Zerker Warrior uses a easily telegraphed stun and you fail to dodge and tries to Hundred Blades you, stun break saves you. Condition Guardian uses 3 instant no animation skills and inflicts 5+ stacks of burning on you and you use your long cooldown condition removal but oh no it removed his weapon swap caused bleed, poison and vulnerability or blind from traits and you quickly burn to death taking 3k per second as he stacks up more as you try to heal.

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abc.5790:

dearest style,

People that defend burn damage aren’t necessarily running burn builds. Some people suffer from condis less than others. If you care to look at my end game stats, you will see the effect condition damage have on me.

If ever I end up on the same team as you, I will happily cleanse your burns and shun enemies away.

respectfully yours,
abc

First image is a 1 vs 2 against a condition Engineer and axe zerker Warrior. also note the zerker arrived first.
[IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/64q6wn.jpg[/IMG]
Second is a nice team fight that started with me being chased from one point to next by probably celestial Ele
[IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/2gt1648.jpg[/IMG]
Third is another 1 vs 2 with a probably celestial Ele coming first but Warrior doesn’t even appear on the damage list and burn is still the main damage dealer.
[IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/27zzx9h.jpg[/IMG]
Also note this was one game a few minutes ago but burns seem to be pretty balanced when they are the main killer even when not built around them specifically.

choovanski.5462:

not everyone dies to condi builds Style. some of us were forced to learn how to fight condi builds in wvw & actually know how to manage condi clears. burn guard is not scary if you can apply counter pressure while managing condis.

as to why condi clears shouldn’t always remove the most damaging condition first; it would remove the ability to cover condis & kill a lot of condi builds. it’s a dumbing down of the game so someone who is bad at managing condis (you, Style) can win more.

Lol so removing RNG somehow dumbs down a skill based game. Remove the burn you stand a chance at winning the fight, remove the 1 stack of vulnerability/bleed/poison/cripple/blind you lose, such a skilled fight. Guess I just need to learn to dodge the chance on hit to apply burning and 5 other conditions on any attack traits and skills.

Started playing again after a year of not playing last night and this sure was fun to discover in the first game, was obvious by the 3k burn ticks. Literally every single death out of 15 games I played were to burning damage, every time it did 40k+ total damage by itself with the next damage source being 2k or less, did not matter if it was team fights or solo point defense, burning was always the top if I died and 2nd highest source was always 1/20th of burning. Of course I did die once to a zerker Warrior, maybe 3 times to Thieves in team fights and once to a zerker shatter burst, also one time the servers started lagging and I died unable to time dodges against zerker lich form basicx3.

Random.4691:

First off it’s typical for new stuff to be OP in every game, over the next month or two it will be toned down, is this your first MMO ?

Second you’re over exaggerating, players don’t know how to combat the specs yet. Given time players with either realize the method to combat each spec or they will realize the spec truly is OP and needs to be toned down.

You post shows exactly how little you know about these specs.
Reaper seems to be the only one you actually pointed out the ability/trait that you felt was the problem and even then it seems you were to lazy to look up the name of the trait.

So ya let’s listen to the guy that can’t even bother to do some research about the classes he complains about. I seriously hope Anet ignores this thread based on the laziness of it.

First off it’s typical for ANet to take 6 months between each balance patch and then completely do the opposite of a good balance patch, is this your first few months with ANet?

Seriously it took them over a year and three months to make Skyhammer possible to dodge, increase the time on the panels disappearing and stop them from disappearing while stealthed, for that entire time it was destroying Solo Queue and they didn’t give a kitten even though it would take less than 5 minutes to remove it from the map rotation. I believe ANet will have learned in these 3 years and fix the obvious red flags in 3 weeks even though they always have managed to do the opposite for the 2 years I played since launch.

Relshdan.6854:

Conner.5803:

People are not used to fight these classes yet, so it may look very OP at this moment. Give it time. People will start making counter builds against them.

this.
this “power creep” would only affect pvp…give pvp time to adjust/react

Please, I haven’t been wrong about meta changes once yet in 3 years regardless of all the white knights that are always defending any leaked patch notes.

Sinzaku.2980:

Spicyhash.7605:

thanks for the great replies guys. it’s so refreshing to have people actually agree and not make low effort ‘L2P’ posts

No any great replies in ur thread, when i see peoples talking trash about stuff they dont even understand it just make me vomit.

Your L2p issue is right here, deal with it.

I totally believe with ANets horrible balance decisions in the past 3 years that huge changes in a beta are completely balanced and by launch they will be perfect regardless of the red flags just from glancing at their trait trees.

Kailee.8790:

Note how Druid was nowhere to be seen by OP

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Celestial_Shadow

Can’t see kitten with everything have stealth and super speed.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

4 new regions vs 6 base, 124 new quests vs 205 base, going off just monk skills 10 new skills vs 40 base, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_art, 18 new dungeons vs 0 base, 10 heroes vs 0 base. Totally similar to the 15% of the stuff it actually adds in this but it’s more like 50%+ for all of them.

Let’s see. EotN released for $40 and Prophecies released for $50. So that makes EotN 80% (40/50) of the cost of Prophecies. Since you like to to comparisons using only quantities, that means EotN must contains at least 80% of the content of Prophecies.

Maps
Prophecies – 54
EotN – 15

Result: 28% (15/54) – FAIL

Quests
Prophecies – 205
EotN – 124

Result: 60% (124/205) – FAIL

Professions
Prophecies – 6
EotN – 2

Result: 33% (2/6) – FAIL

Armor Sets
Prophecies – 13
EotN – 5

Result: 39% (5/13) – FAIL

Skills
Prophecies – 204
EotN – 150

Result: 74% (150/204) – FAIL

Zones
Base-29
HoT-4
14%

Classes
Base-8
HoT-1
12.5%

Cosmetics
Base-Who the kitten knows 3000+ at least
HoT-60+
2%

Skills
Base-529
HoT-150 most of all only possible to equip with elite equipped and includes all Revenant skills
Not including multi part skills in either
28%

Dungeons
Base-25 dungeon paths, 15 fractals, 9 epic world bosses
HoT-3? 10 man raids
6%

So that’s a great comparison with the expansion you claim added the least content.

See. Expansions don’t ever contain as much content as their core game. All that someone needs to do is determine if the content that they see within the expansion is worth the $50 to them. What other games have or don’t have doesn’t matter. All that matters is what that particular expansion is worth to them.

So while you’re playing the core game, or some other game, I’ll be enjoying all of the content that HoT has to offer including all future living story content which you will not have access to. But don’t worry, you can wait until the next expansion and purchase both for $50 which will come down to $25 each.

You are right but anyone with brains looks for something that adds at the very least 25% to the total content of the base game, this doesn’t reach even 5%. You can enjoy your fan fiction writing as I said earlier, use that to justify your purchase, but there are tons of websites you can find 100s of hours of reading for free if you want that.

Power creep is obvious, name all the skills/traits with stability/super speed/quickness before patch and now glance at almost any elite specialization.

Ayrilana.1396:

glaphen.5230:

4 new regions vs 6 base, 124 new quests vs 205 base, going off just monk skills 10 new skills vs 40 base, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_art, 18 new dungeons vs 0 base, 10 heroes vs 0 base. Totally similar to the 15% of the stuff it actually adds in this but it’s more like 50%+ for all of them.

Let’s see. EotN released for $40 and Prophecies released for $50. So that makes EotN 80% (40/50) of the cost of Prophecies. Since you like to to comparisons using only quantities, that means EotN must contains at least 80% of the content of Prophecies.

Maps
Prophecies – 54
EotN – 15

Result: 28% (15/54) – FAIL

Quests
Prophecies – 205
EotN – 124

Result: 60% (124/205) – FAIL

Professions
Prophecies – 6
EotN – 2

Result: 33% (2/6) – FAIL

Armor Sets
Prophecies – 13
EotN – 5

Result: 39% (5/13) – FAIL

Skills
Prophecies – 204
EotN – 150

Result: 74% (150/204) – FAIL

Zones
Base-29
HoT-4
14%

Classes
Base-8
HoT-1
12.5%

Cosmetics
Base-Who the kitten knows 3000+ at least
HoT-60+
2%

Skills
Base-529
HoT-150 most of all only possible to equip with elite equipped and includes all Revenant skills
Not including multi part skills in either
28%

Dungeons
Base-25 dungeon paths, 15 fractals, 9 epic world bosses
HoT-3? 10 man raids
6%

So that’s a great comparison with the expansion you claim added the least content.